If this ban is substantially similar to the one upheld in Carhart v. Gonzalez, the Supreme Court should reverse the 4th Circuit without question.

"If this ban is substantially similar to the one upheld in Carhart v. Gonzalez"

If this ban was substantially similar, it is unlikely that the conservative 4th Circuit would have reached the decision that they did...

First the California same-sex marriage decision and now this Virginia abortion ruling...it's like the courts want to flame the culture wars into a raging fire just as the presidential general election campaign gets started. Conservatives have lacked rallying points so far, and they still lack a candidate who will fight on these fronts, but in these decisions that have liberals cheering, ironically, conservatives may actually remember how they have won elections in the past.

While I'm not a hard anti-abortionist, neither am I for abortion where it can be avoided. It certainly never should be a form of birth control. An abortion, no matter how late, that is for the safety of the mother, while a difficult decision should always favor the mother, IMO.

However, whenever this most ugly of words, abortion, is used, it always prompts me to speak out:

-More sex education, earlier and more often. (Grade 5 and up).
-Pushing abstinence is fine, but condoms are much less risky. Make sure kids know where to get them and how to use them.

Abstinence is destroyed in one second.

Stop calling the "pill" and condoms "birth control".

They are not birth control, they are pregnancy prevention and in the case of condoms are very good at disease control.

It's not a culture war...it's the health of my wife you are playing with. What do you want- my dead baby and my wife dead as well to satisfy your moral need?

This is good news. I note though that things like abortion and gay marriage gave us the idiot-in-chief Bush. Hopefully the court decision will end debate. Lest we end up with another idiot in the White House.

A competent judicial decision is based on application of prevailing law to a specific set of facts before the court. To suggest that courts are consciously "flam[ing] the culture wars" implies that a court bases its decision on public reaction as opposed to sound law.

Don't like abortions....don't have one. Very simple.

Is it moral for a bunch of old white men in a closed room, sipping brandy and smoking cigars to tell women what they can or cannot do to their own body? I cannot support the Republican party knowing that they want to impose their will to "save the lives of countless unborn lives" yet have no problem sending soldiers all over the world to kill innocent civilians and even to die themselves for vague if not nonexistent purposes. Hypocrites.

I see the 2 rulings as courts repudiating the culture war of the Bush years and finally finding their voice after 7 years of nonsense from Bush, Rove, Robertson, Falwell, Dobson, FRC, FOTF, etc.

"Supporters of Virginia's ban say it would stop the practice of killing infants moments after they are prematurely delivered."

I wish you had made it clearer that you are using the language of the ban's proponents. "Killing infants" and "prematurely delivered" is highly inflammatory language; it is medically inaccurate and hugely political. What we are talking about is a small number of abortions that would be performed in extraordinary circumstances; the issue is whether restricting providers' discretion about the safest procedure for the individual woman is permissible. The 4th Circuit has rightly acknowledged that, even in light of the Supreme Court's 2007 decision, it is not.

Given the nature of doctor-patient confidentiality, how would a ban on abortion ever be enforced?

The doctor, bound my his professional ethics and/or his duty to his patient, can't, and shouldn't, be compelled to disclose what procedures he has performed on a patient to the state.

The patient, predicated on the right granted by the 5th amendment, wouldn't have to disclose if she had an abortion either.

So how do the "conservatives" pushing this agenda plan to enforce it? Are they going to violate doctor-patient privledge or throw the 5th amendement out the window?

Why the government is involved in this deeply private matter is truly beyond my comprehension.

I am constantly amazed that conservatives who complain loudest against growing governments (despite growing populations) and label any kind of government regulaton as misguided liberalism aimed at curtailing individual rights are so determined to interfere with a woman's personal choice when to bear or not to bear a child.

Uh, why can't you describe the "procedures?"

Abortion is murder, and your journalistic malpractice of "silence" is a killer, too. The WP subscription base is sinking, sinking, sinking, as people look elsewhere for the information you censor like the good apparachnik you are.

Things are getting better...and Obama hasn't even taken the oath of office yet!

America is coming back...

Blert - the problem with your argument is that the majority of the California judges were appointed by Republicans (the author of the majority decision was actually first appointed to the bench by the Judy Garland of the Fabulous right, Ronald Reagan). Second, the Fourth Circuit is the MOST conservative appellate court in the nation.

So you can't blame this on activist liberal judges. I think the country is tired of conservatives imposing their morals on other people. As another poster said, if you don't like abortions, don't have one.

I pray the Supreme Court will reverse the 4th Circuit's ruling today.

" ...... killing infants moments after they are prematurely delivered."

Shame on us!

The 4th Circuit? Who would have thought they'd strike down an abortion ban?

How exactly is a woman's health protected by killing infants moments AFTER they are prematurely delivered?

I for one would be healthier if those who worship at the altar of abortion would be aborted now.

maddogg, aren't you lucky someone didn't pull the plug on you.

All I can say for the people who rationalize reasons for abortion is Hitler beat them to it. His views are clearly stated in his 'book'. What a teammate to have.

A good day. A good decision. The right move in the right direction. Everyone should have a choice.

Frank- and the lack of abortion in the case of my family may mean a double murder- that of my baby and my wife. I'm sorry that you think the passing of my child with Anencephaly is murder. I'm even more sorry that you think my wife should die to prevent it.

Don't want a baby? Keep your pants zipped. It's that simple.

What I do NOT get is why don't these people include protection for the life of the mother????????? What is this, the Dark Ages??

In 100 years, citizens will look back at abortion in today's time as a barbaric act. We are currently experiencing a lapse in judgement which, over time, will be exposed against the backdrop of history. Just as acts of genocide, slavery and oppression of the weak have been exposed time and again.

America is coming back?! This is not what America should be becoming! What about the rights of an unborn child? Yes, that child is a living human being. Yes, this is "infant killing." Again, let's only think about ourselves and "our rights." Selfishness at it's very worst! And the doctor-patient confidentiality only means that a patient isn't named, your argument doesn't hold up here.

Jess- you are the selfish one here, for placing your world view ahead of my own right to make my own decisions. You don't like it- then don't make that decision. But don't play god for me and my family.

The mere thought of women being able to decide things for themselves scares conservative men. They think they know better than the women's doctors who have had YEARS of training.

Listen to how out there they really are - they can't even stand an exception for the life of a woman. Sickening....

SCY wrote: "What I do NOT get is why don't these people include protection for the life of the mother?? What is this, the Dark Ages??"

Yes, dark ages is right when it comes to the various religions that are opposed to any of the these procedures, even the morning after pill is "against" their beliefs, and all of their beliefs come from the dark or medieval ages, when "religion" was there to control the masses on behalf of the kings (who were of course "descended from God" hah!).

We've gotten rid of the kings, now we need to get rid of the other half of the axis of evil (the American Taliban) who keep trying to force ancient superstitions and myths upon us all in their "divine" quest to control control control.

I would just die if I tried to have an abortion and the little tumor survived, THAT is why there needs to be a health exception. I'd feel bad and stuff.

809212876, we are coming for you. Allah Akbar!

I am pro choice. However, a late abortion as nothing like an early one and should never be executed unless the mother's health is in danger.

Women who want an early abortion should be guaranteed to get one swiftly,without delay.

There is no 'right' to abortion(murder) in the Constitution, therefore the ruling is in error.

If conservatives truly wished to limit late term abortions, they would include the health exception in their legislation. This is a political red herring, and debate on these rarely peformed procedures has been going on far too long. The health exception is never included in legislation from the right because they want the left to vote against it, so they can use it to rally the Christian base against their opponents. I'm tired of politicians treating real women's lives as a political game! There are very few of these abortions performed, and some are performed to save a mother with severe bleeding in cases where the infant is not going to survive. Until each and every one of these legislators has had a friend or love one almost die in childbirth (I have), they should stop passing such laws. Focus instead on what really works - access to contraception, real sex education, economic support to the poor, and adoption support services. Good grief - it is just so counterproductive arguing about legislation like this. NO ONE wants to see more abortions, so why do the the same people who pass laws like this try to limit access to contraception and sex education as well? BTW, how much money has the state spent passing this law and arguing this law in the courts. I'm guessing we could have helped more than a few woman with contraception or adoption services for a fraction of the cost!

Nuh uh Vale, the Supreme Court said so once. Who are you to dispute the infallible Supreme Court?

Decide for yourself, not for others. It's quite arrogant to think that it's logical to take away another's choice.

Don't like slavery? Don't own a slave.
Don't like whites only water fountains? Don't drink from one.

Abortion is wrong. But without a compass to guide us, Americans are quickly jumping over the edge into the abyss like a bunch of liberal lemmings. Whatever is convenient and makes you "feel good" is the mantra and those who chant otherwise are "trying to push their morals onto others." What a bunch of idiots we have become.

But, give it a few generations. The ill-advised will soon have no prodigy to share their rancid beliefs with and the tide will change. You have to feel bad for the babies though. Never had a chance...

Abortion = Baby killing. Please stop using the technical term and just state what this really is.

A woman's right to kill a baby/abortion. Then people will be sensitive to this inhumane act.

We treat dogs better than unborn babies.

Don't like slavery? Don't have a slave. Don't like murder? Don't kill anyone. Don't like despoiling of the environment? Don't bulldoze a forest.

Simple.

Joe, dogs don't grow up to be people. Big difference.

Don't like the death tax? Don't die.

If your definition of "freedom" and "choice" makes it acceptable to irrevocably deny someone else the same freedoms and choices you yourself are exercising forever, then what does that make you?

If freedom and choice are good enough for you, they're good enough for your children, too.

just because it comes out of my body doesn't mean its a person, come on, is virginia going to start regulating what happens when i take a dump?

The anti-abortion cause is dead. Most people are right in the middle who dislike abortion, but know that it is a necessary evil. For early term abortions it should be accessible to all women and girls and for late-term abortions it should be limited to health exceptions or dire circumstances.

The problem is the anti-abortion nut cases who can't never compromise and think standing in front of clinics harassing women is somehow productive. Please keep your religion away from our laws.

I agree with Alan Brown on all but one point. 5th grade is too late to start sex education. Children are being exposed to sex by their parents and the media at very young ages. Sex Ed really needs to start in Kindergarten because Kindergartners are talking about sex. This would also be a great time to teach kids about molestation, in an age appropriate manner of course.

Don't like children being used as sex slaves? Don't go to Indonesia and have sex with a child...

What a stupid bunch of arguments...

"Don't like slavery? Don't have a slave."
-margaret Davis

"Don't like murder? Don't kill anyone."
-margaret Davis

By this logic, are you suggesting that if you do like to murder people or have a slave, then it's ok? And further, are you suggesting I shouldn't force my views on you by stopping you from murding or enslaving others?

Why not just kill the baby at birth and save the operation. Its the same thing!

If all the people who are against abortion would open their homes and pocketbooks to the unwanted children already in the world I would give them a lot more credit. Until then, let us all make our own choices.

donmac has the right idea

What we need are some of those shredders that Saddam used to put people in, but maybe smaller because babies are smaller. We could even use them for compost and help negate the carbon footprint of the babyshredder!

The Post still can't bring itself to call this "procedure" partial-birth abortion, which is what it is. The baby is born half-way, then the doctor kills it by feeling up along the spine to the base of the skull, and then putting sharp scissors in between his index and middle finder, then puncturing the skull of the baby (who will be kicking hard at the pain, so the doctor has to be careful), and then inserts a vacuum cleaner into the hole with a very strong reverse pressure that sucks the baby's brains out and kills the baby so it can be born dead (the kicking eventually stops and the legs droop down limply).

I am sure that someone will ask our editor to delete this message because she objects to it. Has it occurred to our editor that the PROCEDURE IS OBJECTIONABLE?

Think on it. On how hard that baby kicks. Try not to forget that.

Abortion is a billion dollar business liberals will fight for. Planned Parenthood is in the business of murder, especially black babies.

FYI, the reason conservatives look like they are trying to push their morals on you is because you don't seem to have any usable moral values of your own!!! When is enough enough? Is life (young and old) sacred or not? Conservatives don't want a bunch of unwanted babies brought into the world either, but abortion is a poor alternative. I have just the number of children I wanted, no more and no less, and it wasn't really that hard to figure out how to accomplish. I believe liberals don't like abortion any more than conservatives do, but we need to get on the same page on this. Education towards prevention is the answer. Both our energies need to go in this direction.

Don't like AIDS? Don't get it.

Anyone on her know exactly what happens during these late term abortions? It is disgusting. It is one thing if the health of the mother is in question, which by the way, is very rare. Ask any doctor and they will tell you that. But for this to be legal because an ignorant woman decided 6 months in that she doesn't want the child, well she is committing murder, point blank.

I am a 30 year old woman who had an abortion at 18, so I know a little something about this. Let me tell you this...everyday I think of what I did with much regret. I was told by Planned Parenthood and my high school counselor that the child I was carrying had no liking to a human when I went in at almost 3 months to terminate my pregnancy. Of course, I was a young dumb teenager then and if I would have known then what I know now....I never would have done it.

I killed a being that not only had webbed feet and hands, had eyes, but had a beating heart. People need to realize legal first term abortions are not just a mass of cells you are sucking out of your body, no you are killing a living being with a heartbeat. I have to live with that guilt everyday of my life. I can't even imagine how you justify a late term abortion.

Oh, and don't give me but it wasn't viable out of the womb argument. When one of you can prove to me that you didn't start out as this embryo we so blatantly disregard as medical waste, then I will listen to you.

What a great debate. Kill babies to save moms. Hmmm, or is it a choice to kill a baby??
Maybe morality is a double edged sword. I can not understand saying god is not alive in the lives of people, But God is the giver of life. I will not have an abortion, and I think the choice should be given to the child.I can not figure how the ones here say do not let the government chose the laws, but go to those same courts to force their beliefs on everyone else. The court ruled once , and I am hopeful that the Supreme Court will do away with the ruling as it had done 2 years ago.

If late term abortion is justifiable, why not infanticide? Think about this for a moment. Does the location of the child with regard to the mother really make the difference between a "person" with rights and a "fetus" that can be chopped up, sucked out, and thrown away? You don't have to be religious to see that the difference between killing a nine-month old "fetus" and a new born "baby" is utterly arbitrary.

I for one am not happy with the implications of setting arbitrary limits to "personhood." Arbitrary limits can change. It is a very small jump to redefining personhood to exclude the handicapped, the elderly, anyone who is a bruden to those who set the arbitrary limits of personhood.

And with unwanted pregnancies in which the baby is viable - around the 20-25 week mark and moving back - why should removing the pregnancy require killing the baby? Why not remove the baby intact and alive and treat it like any other premature baby?

Invading other countries is a Trillion dollar business conservatives will fight for. Killing millions of "them" is okay as long as there's big bux in for the beltway bandits. The military industrial complex is in the business of murder, especially foreigners.

I really do not believe the issue is of men's fear of women's independence or rights. Honestly I know more women who are involved and feel strongly against abortion more so than Men. I believe it really comes down to how we value and percieve life.
I also believe it is just not true to say religion is not compassionate to women. There are Christian Crisis Pregnancy Centers all over the country (not planned parenthood) that reach out to women before and after abortion to help them although these centers are against abortion.
Women who have abortions carry the emotional and sometimes physical scars after abortion. These Centers run by "religious" people are there not to judge but to help.
People against abortion are not adhering blindly to religion. There is science that supports life begins at conception. A infant heart begins beating in it's mother's womb at 21 days. For those who believe life starts at conception or soon after, it grieves them to think that a life would be sacrificed for the "right" of a woman to terminate it. I do not believe most Americans support banning abortion when the woman's life is at risk.
I believe it comes down to this. We are not against a womans health, independence, rights or welfare. We are for it - and for the unborn child she carries.

and I agree with most on here, that education is the key. #1 If I would have had parents that gave a crap, and #2 known more than DONT HAVE SEX IT IS BAD, then maybe at 18 I wouldn't have gotten pregnant. Trust me saying don't do it doesn't work. We need to give kids the education to make a wise decision when it comes to having sex.

These are WaPo bloggers, not reporters. Interns would do a better job.

Choices - you have choice don't have sex without protection. It's that simple.

We need people to be accountable and responsible for their choices. Not make excuses why killing a baby/having an abortion is okay.

Under the guise of, it's my body argument. That argument is so tired and old.

Take responsibility for your actions and this world will improve dramatically.

Right... great moral values - all that's missing is the line "Let them eat cake"

I'm so sick of self-righteous "compassionate" conservatives. I would love for you to preach your moral values in Iraq to a woman who just had her child die of gunshot wounds. Your moral authority is nil in my book. Now whose number did we find in that black book from the DC madam? I bet if that prostitute got pregnant Mr. Conservative Senater (Vitter) would have gladly paid for an abortion - even (gasp) a late-term one.

Keep your "moral values" to yourself please.

LVJ said "FYI, the reason conservatives look like they are trying to push their morals on you is because you don't seem to have any usable moral values of your own!!!"

Don't like cancer? Don't smoke!

Don't like broccoli? Don't eat it!

@Paul -

You are calling people who believe in choice lemmings?

What about the thousands of religious fanatics who blindly follow their pastors without a thought?

To paraphrase another poster: If we could get rid of religion, the world would be a much better place.

We call terrorists evil because they kill in the name of their god when we have done the same thing in the name of Christianity.

Look at most of the problems we have in the world today and you'll find the root cause is bull-headed, religious lemmings.

they can't vote until they're 18, so the right to abort should last at least that long

Don't want a baby? Keep your pants zipped. It's that simple.
Posted by: Apostrophe | May 20, 2008 4:58 PM
Exactly! Or do what Apostrophe's uncle Rufus did: sodomize ya 'cause there ain't no babies gonna come outta mah rump!

Great analogy Sinead- comparing a child to a crap. Perfect.

That is the best retort to why you should be able to have an abortion- because everything coming out of your body is waste. Sinead truly hit the liberal view of human sanctity on the head. If you hit it hard enough it may abort...

Funny how anti-abortion groups are perfectly OK with the idea of pregnant women dying because they're not able to have a life-saving abortion at the last minute. Hypocritical much?

Most people don't realize that the reason "partial birth" abortions are performed is BECAUSE any other method would endanger the life of the mother.

Difference:

Planned Parenthood gives ALL the options - adoption, abortion, etc.

Christian Crisis Centers do not.

End of story. They don't even explain that abortion is an option albeit one they do not support.

Here's a hint JP. Ignorance is never the answer.

JP said "There are Christian Crisis Pregnancy Centers all over the country (not planned parenthood) that reach out to women before and after abortion to help them although these centers are against abortion."

They don't do late-term abortions for the fun of it people. They're done if the mother's health is in danger or if the fetus is too damaged to survive.

I know a lovely married couple who had to go through a late-term abortion because the fetus was basically irreparably damaged by backwards and missing chromosomes. The doctors didn't know this until several months into the pregnancy. Trust me, the decision was the worst thing they ever had to go through.

There is no joy in late-term abortions so you pro-lifers need to quit acting like people somehow enjoy them or have them done because they lack morals or ethics.

There went the Democrats' fond hopes for Virginia!

Gilmore will easily defeat the pro-abortion Mark Warner for the US Senate!

McCain will easily defeat the pro-abortion Obama for President!

Dan - the 400 mostly white men who came up with these laws don't care about these people. They care about pandering to the fringe right-wing groups who care NOTHING for women in these situations. They would prefer your friend DIE.

Truthfully - who wouldn't put in an exception to the mother's help. All these conservatives on this board have voted for these uber-right wing politicians who enact policies like these - then claim they care about women when it's quite obvious they don't.

Dan said "I know a lovely married couple who had to go through a late-term abortion because the fetus was basically irreparably damaged by backwards and missing chromosomes. The doctors didn't know this until several months into the pregnancy. Trust me, the decision was the worst thing they ever had to go through."

My wife had an abortion and still deals with the trauma of it today. It is not an easy thing to do. My question for all of you with these big mud slinging opinions in here is how many of you have had one? or your spouse? Its easy spout off an opionion when you have never dealt with the situation!

When has a woman's life ever been saved by killing her baby on a table next to her?

HOW CAN YOU BE A JUDGE AND NOT CALL THIS UNCONSTITUIONAL???:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us_y9GP_-DA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBOAPleF1t0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBOAPleF1t0

BABIES HAVE RIGHTS ALSO!!!

Abortion is not an easy thing to have to undergo and I would not take that choice away from the mother.

Under what health circumstances are D&X abortions performed?

There is currently no statistical information available on why "dilation and extraction" abortions are performed.

In a widely-publicized interview with The New York Times in 1997, Ron Fitzsimmons, executive director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers, estimated that in the majority of cases, the procedure is performed on a healthy mother and healthy fetus that is 20 weeks or more along in development.

Yet the procedure is also performed in cases where the woman's health is at risk, or when the fetus shows signs of serious abnormalities, some of which don't become apparent until late in pregnancy.

See where it says the MAJORITY of these late term abortions are performed on healthy mothers. UGH..makes me sick

Tromba, so you're ok with me having my baby's skull punctured and brain sucked out, but executing murders is barbaric?

Amazing.

Not even Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine, a comparatively benign Catholic gentleman and a Democrat, would have vetoed Virginia legilature's ban on late term abortions.

But US Senate Democrat candidate Mark Warner did!

Liberalism is a death cult.

Pro Life philosophy promotes:
-Taking responsibility for you actions
-Discipline
-Self control
-Selflessness

Pro Choice philosophy promotes:
-Selfishness
-Doing what makes you feel good regardless of the consequences
-Harming someone else to help yourself
-Getting out of a bad decision (to have sex when you weren't ready)

One philosophy seems to promote more natural moral vices then virtures.

LOL. In an election that Republicans should have no chance of winning, Democrats are pushing two polarizing candidates and now have their court system making decisions that are going to fire up the conservative base. As a conservative (Not Republican, mind you) I was planning on voting for a third party this year, but the libs are going to make me vote for McCain.

"Is it moral for a bunch of old white men in a closed room, sipping brandy and smoking cigars to tell women what they can or cannot do to their own body? "

what's worse is that all five of the majority upholding the "partial birth" ban were catholics, each of whom showed to have more fealty to the vatican than to the consitution.

Why is it a great thing for me to have my child carved up into pieces after birth, but I can't move into a religious compound and marry her off when she's 13?

Better dead than wed?

Consider this irony of conservative history.

In the 1960's, the FATHER of the modern "conservative" movement, none other than Barry Goldwater, was PROUD that his wife worked for Planned Parenthood.

An irony of today's "conservative" movement is that out of one side of their mouths they scream for less government and "get government off the backs of the people," ad nauseum. Yet out of the OTHER side of their mouths they want the government to stick its nose into everyone's bedroom and doctor's office, in the name of THEIR religion, which, by the way, has NOTHING to do with the law as handed down in Roe v. Wade.

Conservative = hypocrite. The backlash is building and this fall a tidal wave of resentment will wash over the GOP for 8 years of contemptible bumbling and butt kissing of the American Taliban. Good riddance to the GOP and the far right.

Liberalism is a death cult. - Posted by: Patti O'Riley

Says the reich wing warmonger who supports torture, murder, rape and treason.

Patti, you support the regime that LIED not once, not twice, but 935 times about Iraq to start a war that killed over 100,000 innocent civilians.

You support the regime that illegally used White Phosphorous against Iraqi civilian targets in Fallujah and elsewhere.

Liberalism a death cult? You're one to talk!!

If you don't like rape, don't get one.

What percentage of abortions- late term or otherwise- are for the sake of the mother's health? Almost nil. So, let's do some math. Current stats say there are well over a million babies killed every year. Okay. Let's assume 10% of those (which is very high) were for the sake of the mother's health. That is 100,000 NECESSARY killings. What about the other 900,000? Why are we killing those babies? Convenience? Selfishness? Because we can? "Oh, I forgot to use protection?" Whatever argument you try to pose, the bulk of killings are for selfish purposes.

"But what about choice? Who are you to tell me what to do with my body?" Bottom line is I cannot tell you what to do with your body. But you should be able to control what you do with yours- and that would be to take measures so you don't get pregnant. (Both guys and girls) We want to be able to do whatever we want without consequence. So, pass laws to justify behaviors. Hence Roe vs Wade and killings of mass numbers.

And please don't give me the crap about how religion is the root of all that is bad in the world. Please! The reason you don't like religion is you don't want to follow the tenants. That would mean be kind to your fellow beings, keeping your pants on, and recognizing that there just might be more to life than just our selfish wants.

Right - conservatives are concerned for life between conception and birth - after that the compassion ends. War, death penalty, no health care, business concerns above all else, etc.

I'll never understand conservatives. Actually I believe the South is a perfect representation of conservative "values". I'm just glad I don't have to live there.

Patti said "Liberalism is a death cult."

The great thing about planned parenthood is that you can have your donation earmarked for a black baby I mean fetus.

All you right-wing nuts who want to thump your bible and say abortion, especially late term, is as sin and thus should be illegal, consider this:

Imagine your wife is 6 months pregnant.
The doctor tells you it is a certainty that your wife and your baby will die if she gives birth.
Your wife will live if an abortion is perormed.

If you choose to save your wife's life in this scenrio, you are pro-choice.

End of story.

I am generally conservative. I want to pay lower taxes and see as many terrorists killed as possible. However, I do not get the conservative imposition into a woman's/couple's life and will always support the right to choose.

A hundred years ago, give or take, life was defined at birth. Science keeps ratcheting back when they think life starts every year. What will they legislate next? What happens during a woman's period or during a male solo sexual encounter? Will it be illegal to throw that away too? I am sure science at some point will be able to combine the two and create a life & people will be fighting over it then as well.

Tom3, rednecks DO NOT support Obama.

'The Richmond-based Family Foundation, which fought for the Virginia ban, said in a statement it hopes the U.S. Supreme Court will now reverse today's 4th Circuit ruling.'

If Democrats and liberals had not appealed against the Virginia ban on late term abortion (passed over the veto of Dem. Gov. Mark Warner!), we wouldn't be in the fortunate position today of having this case heard by the Supreme Court, where we can be fairly confident the Virginia Ban will be upheld, 5-4.

So, we have to understand that liberals serve God's purpose even when clueless liberals take issue with God.

"The reason you don't like religion is you don't want to follow the tenants"

It is TENETS, you inbred redneck moron.

Tenants are the morons who rented your double-wide.

Tom3, rednecks DO NOT support Obama.
Posted by: Andy

Thank You, Captain Obvious.

Of course they don't. They're racist inbreds.

This is not about a woman's "right". I don't recall a "right" in the Constitution that even closely resembles an individual taking the life of another. Therefore the 4th Circuit made an incorrect ruling as it applies to an individuals "rights". And yes, an unborn infant is a life. While I am against abortion, I feel there are VERY rare occasions that may warrant the use of it to protect the life of the mother. I know which way I would choose were it my wife on the table. And yes, even though judges are supposed to rule according to the law, they do in fact make judgments that are politically motivated. I also agree with a previous post, if you don't want to go through childbirth, keep your feet out of the air or practice better pregnancy prevention. No one is to blame for the situation any person finds themselves in but that person. What happened to individual responsiblity? You don't have a colloge education? Bad decision making on your part. Anyone, especially lower income children and unwed mothers can attend college and get the majority of it payed for. Unwanted pregnancy? Bad decision making on your part, birth control and condoms are free at the Healt Dept. Unhappy marriage? Be a little more selective next time, and base your decisions on something other than physical attraction. Out of control children? Try saying no at Toys R Us from an early age to teach them that they can't have everything they want. If they knew what that word actually meant, and that you meant it when you said it, there would be no problem. Losing you home? Bad decision making on the part of the lender and the buyer. It is not the fault of the government that anyone, albeit it individuals, corporations, or institutions, make poor decisions. The blame lies with the decision maker. Period.

NoVACon, fallacy of the slippery slope.

End of story.

Outlawing abortion is oppression of the working class(es). It the number of children born into families who cannot support them financially and/or emotionally. It causes unready parents to have kids when they make very human mistakes and/or have accidents (birth control doesn't always work).

What the anti-abortionists like to ignore is the kids who have to grow up in families where the parents don't have the means to raise children. Would you like to grow up in a house with mentally ill poor parents?

Neglecting children causes PTSD 80% of the time. It is worse than abuse, which kids are naturally somewhat resistant to. (They've found that abused kids are less likely to get PTSD than neglected kids.) In situations where there would be an abortion, those kids would, if brought up, likely be neglected.

What this means is that we'll have even greater number of neglected, mentally broken, aggressive, violent, prison-material kids growing up, dragging our schools, welfare, and justice systems down.

We would have to pay higher taxes to try and fix, or more likely incarcerate, these people who the "pro-life" supporters want brought into this world, while the kids-becoming-adults live tortured, destructive lives.

What if these kids who would have been aborted aren't, have parents that shouldn't have kids, grow up to be sick, commit terrible acts against other people, and then spend the rest of their life in prison? According to most Christians, this person would go to hell. In the meantime, they've killed and/or tortured someone. They've hurt countless people in their lifetime. We've had to pay for their drag on society and lost loved ones. Some people who could be authors or preachers or whatever are now prison guards, trying to hold all these people in prison.

That's what illegalizing abortion means. That and women dying in alleys trying to prevent their lives from being ruined so anti-abortionists can have what they want.

And what about parents who would be able to raise kids better when they are older, but who are instead forced to have kids because of accidents when they are young, poor, and less mature? This is part of the benevolent Christian god's plan?

This is insanity.

That's right Tom3 and you owe me rent!

What we really need to do is kill all the poor people.

My god if we could just find a way of aborting all the babies who would grow up to be Conservative jesus humping jackasses what a great world this would become. I wish I could start aborting them post birth with a hammer.

In Virginia, and across the South from the Mason Dixon Line to the Gulf, from the Atlantic to Texas and Oklahoma, Election 2008 (McCain vs. Obama) will be about the appointment of judges and justices to the Federal judiciary.

We know where that leaves Obama, don't we?

" . . . Is it moral for a bunch of old white men in a closed room, sipping brandy and smoking cigars to tell women what they can or cannot do to their own body?"

I've never understood this "what they can or can't do with their own body" argument -- correct me if I'm wrong, but it isn't YOUR body that's being killed, is it? It's A BABY'S!! If that baby was 2 months old, you wouldn't get to do anything you wanted to with his/her body -- you could be arrested for hitting that little body, shaking that little body, starving that little body, etc. So why does a woman with an unborn child think she can do anything she wants to with that little body -- including killing it in a horrific late-term abortion?!?! If you are not in a position to take care of a child, then don't get pregnant. If you decide mid-pregnancy that you thought you wanted the baby but have now changed your mind, or perhaps the pregnancy IS the result of a rape -- then bring that soul into the world and give it to a family who can care for it. Killing is killing and it is NOT "your body"!!!! I've never understood this abortion concept and never will -- it is so clearly something you are DOING to another PERSON!! Calling this a "reproductive choice" is just wrong -- semantically, rhetorically and morally. Keep your pants zipped or your legs closed!!

We need to abort anyone named Andre

Andre, great idea on the post birth abortions, let's get started.

We just should have killed off all the redneck inbreeds during the civil war and saved the Union all kinds of trouble down the road.

That's right Tom3 and you owe me rent!
Posted by: Paul

LOL!! Actually I own a house AND a condo. Own them both outright.

I still owe ten grand on the Saab convertible though. I'll probably break it before I pay it off.

Federal and state governments should have minimal rights in the wombs of expecting mothers. Expecting mothers have been, and should continue to be, granted the ability to act with impunity in their own best interests.

If we corner that organ-grinder monkey Obama and make him defend abortion-on-demand, will we be Swiftboating?

Prepare to be Swiftboated, Obammy!

kill whitey!

Obama doesn't have enough experience to know how to grind an organ, well, not a musical organ

"My god if we could just find a way of aborting all the babies who would grow up to be Conservative jesus humping jackasses what a great world this would become. I wish I could start aborting them post birth with a hammer."
-Andre

This is a perfect example of the type of individual that is attracted to the pro choice argument.

Wow...I take issue with those of you who lable all conservatives or republicans in your rash generalizations. Some liberals and democrats are socialists but I don't label all of you as such. So kill the stupid partisan rhetoric...all of us.

If I am correct, science has not identified firmly when durring the gestation period life begins. The truth is however, there is strong evidence that it does begin at conception. Why do I say this? Because when a woman becomes pregnant, her immune system is altared temporarily so that her body doesn't identify the zygote as an invading organism and automatically attack it. Let me emphasise the word ORGANISM. A seperate biological living thing. Now I will concede that this is only MY personal interpritation of the science but I believe it is founded. Once again we can not determine 100% when life "begins" for a fetus/zygote. But personally I would rather error on the side of NOT eliminating a "non-living" zygote than error on the side of killing a growing human life.

I will say this though...you can not legislate certain aspects of morality. They are individual choices and must be treated as such. This should be settled with honest, open and educated discussion rather than beligerant, partisan bickering. You may be able to change a law, but it won't change the heart of a person.

Jon - I truly hope you wife is healthy and that everything possible is done to ensure it. The truth is, sometimes we have to make the tough choice of who lives and who dies and I believe that saving one life is better than losing two. God bless.

It's a ball of cells until its old enough to collect welfare and vote democrat

If the mothers life or well being is at significant risk then this is understandable. If the mothers life is not at significant risk then this is horrible. In many cases late term means the baby could survive on its own.

@Tom3

A Saab- nice!

If the condo is on the beach I may want to rent it- just make sure it has one-bristle toothbrushes as I only have one tooth. Redneck thing...

The joke is on you, person who pretended to be me and saying I want to kill poor people, I am poor. Grew up that way, still am. It's sick to take my effort to try and help those who need it most, myself included, and try to pervert it into an attack on those very people.

Are you paid to do this, or what?

Don't like murder? Don't commit one.

Can any of you inbreed rednick jesus humping republicans name ANYTHING where you have progressed the human ideals. Heck, can any of you cro-mags walk down the street and not drag knuckles?

Mr. Tiller, one of us is gonna sleep with your mom tonight. Please let me have a turn for once.

IMO all of you are nuts.
I would like to mention that I am a god fearing Christian who believes in the fate and will of God as taught to me in Sunday school. I honestly believe the only way an abortion will happen as with all life and death is if God allows it to happen. Just my humble opinion.

JD, go away, this blog is for hate and spew, not rational argument

Yes, Virginia!

Obama, must defend his intention to appoint abortion judges and justices to the Federal judiciary!

Will Governor Kaine still support Obama in November 2008?

Paul- You nailed it!! The other hypocrisy is the grotesque misrepresentation of the
"mother`s health" which is translated into an inconvenient or uncomfortable pregnancy
can be terminated for the most cavalier of reasons.Unfortunately,abortion on demand,anytime,anywhere is still the cornerstone of the Democrat platform!

There go the dems making sure Babies get killed on demand.

Late term abortions are very rarely needed what with the medical advances that have been made. A woman's "mental health" in requiring this type of procedure is suspect at best. This is a barbaric procedure period. Just how terribly hard is it ladies to either keep your legs closed or take one lousy pill a day?

Joe wrote: "We treat dogs better than unborn babies."

Actually Joe, we treat unborn babies better than dogs. The statistics are a bit old but refute your statement. Sorry I didn't have all day to look them up but did find these:

Number of Abortions in 1997: 1,186,039
Number of Dogs Euthanized in 1997: 1,304,787

So your statement is false. We treat unborn babies better than dogs. And actually the number of abortions have been going down and the number of euthanized dogs have been going up so there is a greater disparity today more than ever.

Many women choose to get an abortion because of the cards they are dealt. I don't really think that a girl who is having a baby from her fiance or lover would decide to get rid of it. Think people, if we want women to keep our babies we should start by giving them more love and attention. Basically, when a woman is no longer loved by her "partner" she has to forget about him and move on with her life (as men do). Keeping the baby is not the best way to do it.

Oh my, what venom...reading over the submissions sickened me. A woman has the right to do what she sees fit, for herself. Why would someone else have the right to choose for her? Pro-choice all the way.

"I for one would be healthier if those who worship at the altar of abortion would be aborted now."

Ah, another kind, loving christian espousing murder of born, alive human beings. Typical.

Funny thing is...abortion isn't even mentioned in the bible.

Posted by: Withheld | May 20, 2008 5:59 PM

Obama doesn't have enough experience to know how to grind an organ, well, not a musical organ

DaTourist replied:

Well, you know, HIV-AIDS was unknown to humans until SOMEHOW it got "communicated" from monkeys to African natives. I don't pretend to know just how this happened, and I don't like to think about very much.

My uncle told me that when he was young he went to Europe. He visited France, Belgium, The Netherlands and Germany. He mostly walked but sometimes got a ride in a truck or other vehicle. Along the way he killed people. Mostly grown men but many women and children who had no choice in the matter. He knew that he was killing women and children some of the time. He told me that when he meets his maker he will have no one to answer to except God and he will accept that judgement. By the way he got a couple of medals for killing people, including women and children.

Please stop passing judgement on these people. They are probably going through the most terrifying time of their life and you are not God. Try to be compassionate and more Christ-like, offering them support and comfort. Instead of terrorizing them in front of clinics or on highways with your disgusting picturess, you should be using your time and obviously considerable financial resources helping them through their troubled times. What do you do for those 14 year olds you convince to go through with the pergnancy? Where are you helping them raise crack babies of incestuous rapes? If you are truly concerned with saving babies, save the ones that are born.

Whatever you think about the decision, calling the 4th Circuit, "one of the most conservative appellate courts in the nation" is totally misleading and poor journalism.

It's true that the majority of judges on the Fourth Circuit are so-called "conservatives." But only "en banc" decisions come from the entire court (all of the judges). This opinion, like most, was made by only three specific judges assigned to the case. This was a split decision, 2-1. Guess who appointed the two judges who found the ban unconstitutional? Bill Clinton. Guess who appointed the judge who dissented and said that the ban was okay? Bush Senior.

As the saying goes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but they're not entitled to their own facts. The facts are that this was a decision where two judges appointed by a Democrat won out over one judge appointed by a Republican, nothing more. The Wall Street Journal does a disservice to its readers hyping it up as something else.

"Don't like children being used as sex slaves? Don't go to Indonesia and have sex with a child..."

Um, el stupido, having sex with a child is illegal in the U.S.

It's not illegal to get an abortion.

"What a stupid bunch of arguments..."

Look who's talking - another braindead right wing idiot.

Withheld,
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I am the father of 5 and my wife is pregnant with our 6th! (due on election day!)

I'm praying that our leaders will act with wisdom and discernment in moving forward. For so long we've argued back and forth without revisiting the facts.

Having lost a child previously, it is essential that we discuss these issues with an appreciation of the value of human life and develop policies that protect the mother and the child.

Anthony
gospelism.org

If God doesn't impose his will on us, how can I impose my will on anyone. But we do have the resposibility to make laws that protect the inocent, and lets call abortion what it really is "murder of the unborn."

Kathy:
"Just how terribly hard is it ladies to either keep your legs closed or take one lousy pill a day?"

How terribly hard is it, Kathy, to realize that to save the life or health of the mother, *it matters not a whit* what you think? It matters that the mother's health is saved. Period.

It's barbaric practice to bomb hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians to death based on the lies of our Worst President Ever and his War Criminal V.P.

I don't hear any complaints about *that* barbarism, which negates any argument - or intelligence - on your part. Kathy.

I have started an "exploratory committee" for my dog Spot's Democrat Presidential nomination in Election 2012!

Spot will be a "post-racial" Democrat, uniting black and white dogs in one great canine brotherhood, and (uh!) sisterhood! Spot specially likes to "unite" with the sisters in our neighborhood!

Spot has all the qualities of a Democrat, plus Spot has LOYALTY, too!

@SteveCO

Good call Steve! How wrong I was to think sex with a child was legal in the US! Silly me...

Oh, you are right again! Abortion is legal! That makes it perfectly and totally right and good! I am so glad that our government dictates to us what is right and wrong.

Gosh Steve. You are smart!

To be precise, everyone is entitled to HIS opinion. But what if his opinion is that you are not entitled to yours. Is he still entitled? If people who believe in abortion are going to be fair about it, shouldn't they accord that right to their mothers? And if they do, aren't they, logically speaking, canceling out their own existence--at least in principle--and therefore forfeiting their right to an opinion? Is it time for a policy of retroactive abortions for promoters of abortion?

I think it only helps republicans in november to have another wedge issue to up voter turnout. VA has passed several immigration laws so republicans will not have that as a hot button issue to run on.

"Tthe 2003 Virginia law did not include a health exception. Warner vetoed the law, and the legislature overrode his veto."

"The 4th Circuit, one of the most conservative appellate courts in the nation, initially struck down the Virginia law in 2005 because it lacked an exception to safeguard a woman's health."

I'm 100% pro-choice and the Virginia legislature is 100% anti-woman. And the fact that their decision was overturned by a conservative court shows proves how much the Virginia legislature hates women. I wish I could afford to move from this third world state.

I find it interesting that the people who support laws forcing you to wear seatbelts in a car & motorcycle helmets are the same ones who support choice on abortion issue.
Your position on life reveals much about your belief system & who is important to you. IE: your freedom to live as you choose at the expense of an innocent baby(who really cares if a "few" babies have to suffer some pain and give up their life for your pleasure). After all nothing in life matters but you anyway. Don't blame you for praying that there is no God to care about the killing of the innocent. As judgment could be a real bummer.

Ah, maryann -- and here it is again: "A woman has the right to do what she sees fit, for herself. Why would someone else have the right to choose for her? Pro-choice all the way."

F I N E -- choose for YOURSELF -- NOT for another human being -- who is THE BABY!! Choose NOT to get pregnant. Choose to protect yourself. Yeah -- CHOOSE to do the right thing -- not the convenient, legal and AWFUL thing. You are WRONG -- we don't "have the right to do what we see fit, for ourselves" -- we live in a civilized society with rules and laws to protect ME from something happening because YOU decided that stealing my car was in "your best interest" and you decided that yourself!! How 'bout if a rapist decides that raping YOU is in HIS "best interest" and that he decided that himself?!?! Can you not see how SPECIOUS this reasoning is?!? The only ones who are NOT being protected under our laws are the smallest, the most helpless and the truly innocent. I don't get it, never will and you can't make me understand it by waving a ProChoice flag like that somehow makes this all right. It isn't. It's wrong in every way. Go ahead and make the Ultimate Choice -- protect yourself from pregnancy and STDs and everything else involved with not keeping your legs shut. But don't get pregnant out of your poor choices, then abort your fetus and claim you exercised your own choice!!! What about that baby's choice?!? Oh, my gosh -- I can't even think with this twisted rhetoric. It's just wrong.

If God doesn't impose his will on us, how can I impose my will on anyone. But we do have the resposibility to make laws that protect the inocent, and lets call abortion what it really is "murder of the unborn."

Posted by: CATHY | May 20, 2008 6:10 PM

My dear Cathy, you may not always be aware that God imposes His Will on human affairs, but that in no way means that God doesn't do so.

For example, it was God's Will that young Teddy Kennedy would escape the laws of Massachusetts for his cowardly behavior in Ms. Mary Jo Kopechne's Chappaquiddick drowning, but then God afflicted 75 year old Teddy Kennedy with a brain tumor!

The US Constitution is NOT a document that should be waved about to make these decisions. It's not what it was designed for. That's why abortion is a state-by-state issue, and folks who keep throwing out the "oh, it's unconstitutional" or "no it's not" need to go back to Civics class and re-learn the difference between national and state legislative rights and responsibilities. The right of a state to make its own individual decisions regarding freedoms and restrictions that the Constitution does NOT specifically already protect are what make this a United States rather than the Republic of North America-South of Canada.

If you are against or for abortion, contact your representatives wherever you are and tell them so. They have to record the contact and the comments and if they don't vote the way you want, don't vote them in again. Politics in this country needs to go back to grassroots so we can clean house in our hometowns first and work our way up. This particular issue will likely never be resolved to everyone's satisfaction because it *is* a difficult decision...personally I'm more interested in my local taxes and gas costs going up than whether or not someone who isn't me gets an abortion, late-term or no...it's really none of my business. It's on their conscience and soul, not mine.

Last time I checked the US was not a Theocracy, therefore the laws are NOT based on any religion.
I support the right to a safe abortion. I also believe, very strongly, that it is a decision between a woman, her doctor, and her own conscience.
I also believe that it should be very rare. That is shouldn't be used only as birth control. That there needs to be much better education on human sexuality, not just abstinence.
It all starts with EDUCATION.

It takes a sperm 2 weeks to enter into an egg. That's 2 weeks after you had unprotected sex to get tested for pregnancy. That's enough time to take the morning after pill.

With that in mind, there is no reason whatsoever to have an abortion THREE to NINE MONTHS into a pregnancy.

Absolutely disgusting.

JD - About the 'organism' growing inside a pregnant woman... I think a much fitter definition is thus:

"a swelling of a part of the body, generally without inflammation, caused by an abnormal growth of tissue, whether benign or malignant."

A.K.A., a tumor.

If you can tell me how this definition does not fit, go right ahead. I'm interested. What is a fetus if not a tumor?

Besides, there is one thing that all healthy humans share in common: consciousness. A fetus does not have this. That is why no one remembers their own birth or early years. A baby doesn't develop such things until much later. I personally base human life on those who are conscious and decision-making. Therefore, abortion is simply the removal of a tumor. Unless, of course, you believe in destiny and fate, and if you do, well.. What in goodness gracious is the point of life?

"Your position on life reveals much about your belief system & who is important to you. IE: your freedom to live as you choose at the expense of an innocent baby..."

OOPS. There's your problem, why you're so confused: it's not a baby! It's a fetus! And a fetus that is hurting the health of a mother is far less important than the mother.

Your position as an anti-abortionist reveals much about your belief system & who is important to you.

Obviously, some mythical deity and fetuses are more important to you than born, alive and breathing human beings.

Interesting.

It's very sad we are having this debate when overpopulation is killing the world. Yes, technically we can feed everyone. But practically we have not found an economic, religious or social system that will keep fully functioning, non-embryonic, non-fetal adults from killing each other in the most horrible ways. Congratulations Republicans, as long as you keep us debating this absurd issue we will continue to careen headlong down the path of making the earth completely uninhabitable for all human beings. May God bless you appropriately.

I am going to put this as simple as I can for the backwoods hillbillys in Virginia... IF YOU DON'T HAVE A WOMB YOU DON'T GET A VOTE. When men evolve to have all of the babies in our society then those men can determine the right to choose what they do with their bodies. Ya'alls undersstands?

What is so funny and sickening at the same time over the "woman's health" clauses in legislation banning this type of abortion is that it's not needed.

These procedures take several hours because the cervix must be dilated first. If the pregnancy was causing the woman's life to be in danger, the logical thing to do would be to take her to a hospital for an emergency c-section which would take a significantly less time than this form of abortion.

No, this is pure infanticide. What knucklehead made the distinction that as long as the kid's head is in the birth canal, it doesn't have the rights of any other human being?

@ZZ

Ha! A tumor! That's what it is! Mystery solved.

The old fall-back- it's a fetus, not a baby. What a sad system of poor judgements we use to justify our poor choices. Thanks to ZZ however, we have now determined that babies are just tumors- let's get rid of them.

A woman's body is her own and what she does with it should be her decision, not the governments nor the religious right wingers.

If she decides to have an abortion that is her decision for she feels she has a very good reason to have one.

I do not understand why people in this country feel that they have the right to stick their noses into a persons private life.

Pro-choice is just that it gives a woman a choice to keep her baby, put it up for adoption or to terminate the pregnancy. Regardless what she chooses it is HER decision and everyone else should stay out of it.

Paul:
"I am so glad that our government dictates to us what is right and wrong."

Actually, the government tells us what is the law, not what's right and wrong. You really *are* confused.

That's the job of bible thumping type A screamers like you, Paul baby, who think they have a hotline to a god that didn't even mention abortion in your bible that he supposedly wrote.

If all sudents were told about the choices of protection, not just abstinence, we would have fewer young children having babies and abortion would not be an issue but the conservatives only want abstinence taught and President Bush has given millions to teach this curriculum.

What always amazes me about the "abortion debate" is the refusal to remain focused on the distinctions between the reasons for choosing an abortion. On the one end of the spectrum is "oops! I didn't mean to get pregnant!". Not too hard to vilify in that case - it is the preverbial abortion of convenience. On the other end of the spectrum you have life or death decisions for the mother. Pretty hard to villify the mother there. Then you have the cases where it is a choice exercized because the baby, in utero, has been diagnosed with some severe and unresolvable health issue. Tougher call than the other two situations, but you can see where that decision is made out of compassion. When you think about it, all abortions fit into one or more of those three categories. Yet because the extreme anti-abortionists and the extreme pro-abortionists refuse to give up ANY ground on the issue, the real facts and circumstances don't get discussed. All of us want to do what is right. Those of you on either extreme of the issue need to let go and come together to find the middle ground.

And one more thing. WHEN an abortion occurs (so long as it is truly an abortion), is really irrelevant. If you believe that a fetus is a child then you have to believe that an embryo is a child - to state otherwise is hypocritical. What matters, folks, is why. And that is where the debate will ultimately have to focus.

I think it only helps republicans in november to have another wedge issue to up voter turnout. VA has passed several immigration laws so republicans will not have that as a hot button issue to run on.

Posted by: | May 20, 2008 6:14 PM

DaTourist replied:

Of course, you are partly right.

"Wedge issues" separate liberals from conservatives, Democrats from Republicans, but generally liberals and Democrats are not proud of their side of the Wedge Issues.

Abortion will kill Mark Warner and Obama in Virginia.

But immigration is not a dead issue either. If you live in Northern Virginia, constantly in fear of Central American gangs of illegal immigrants, immigration will probably be more of an issue than mass transportation.

"It takes a sperm 2 weeks to enter into an egg. That's 2 weeks after you had unprotected sex to get tested for pregnancy. That's enough time to take the morning after pill."

Posted by: John | May 20, 2008 6:19 PM

Wow. Go back to health class.
An egg is viable for approximately 24 hours. Sperm can survive for maybe 48-72 hours at most in the uterus on the way to fallopian tube.

The two week time frame you are referring to is when a woman first misses her period.

Is this issue ever going to be resolved?? It seems for as long as I can recall, this issue has been on the adgenda of the Pro Life and Pro Choice questions. What kind of justice system can never resolve and issue without it constantly being appealed?? Such a waste of time and money for something that takes place behind closed doors between a doctor and patient.

Trying to control people(woman) and take away someones freedom based on opinion and judgment,when there actions do not effect you shows a shallow defect in one's soul and personality. Freedom and choice are at the core of life with or with-out words on a piece of paper,facts or government. Passing judgment,blame,anger,hate,or even laws that limit freedom/life when it does not effect you at all,will only bring these same feelings, situations, and circumstances back onto yourself. Basically being forced to "learn the hard way"

@SteveCO

And abortion is right because the government says so.

And you assume so much... I am not religious at all. But anyone who has any sense at all can see that killing unborn babies is wrong despite its legality. But not for you Stevie-Boy. If the government gives the thumbs up, let's jump right in! Are you homosexual? Or are you going to turn homosexual once gay marriage is legal? It must be right!

"Is it time for a policy of retroactive abortions for promoters of abortion?"

More murder proposed by kindly anti-abortion misogynists.

This issue will only truly be resolved when people have the right to choose when to get pregnant. We need a safe, effective way to prevent pregnancy with 100% certainty until the decision is made "by both parties" to get pregnant.

The problem with "women's choice" is that men have no say in the matter. Therefore, anything we come up with to give women the right to make the choice alone is insufficient.

The only solution is to make sure that men do not and can not get a woman pregnant if they don't wish to. It should always take 2 yeses. At some point we will finally figure out that the default of sex should be "no pregnancy", and that two people making a baby should enter into a legally binding agreement to go forward and procreate.

Abstinence only does too work. My parents raised 7 children on the concept of abstinence and ALL of us grew up to have weddings where the brides deserved to wear white and the marriages have all been successful.

It doesn't work without parental support however. Abstinence cannot be successfully taught at school since it is a way of life that involves so much more than just facts (which is all schools can provide).

There are so many couples out there who want to adopt a baby yet people assume there are only two choices: abort the baby or raise it. It takes years and a lot of luck and thousands of dollars to finally adopt a baby. And yet abortion clinics are disposing of babies who could survive on their own--killing them right before (or after) birth. Too sad.

So, if I don't like murder, I shouldn't kill anyone? Everyone is talking about the privacy and the rights of the mother but what about the child?

"For example, it was God's Will that young Teddy Kennedy would escape the laws of Massachusetts for his cowardly behavior in Ms. Mary Jo Kopechne's Chappaquiddick drowning,..."

The same God's Will that allowed George W. Bush to desert the National Guard and bomb hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians to death.

"... but then God afflicted 75 year old Teddy Kennedy with a brain tumor!"

Oh yeah, that had to be God, waiting 40 years to affect the life of someone 75 years old.

Geez, how do feeble thinkers like this even feed themselves?

Paul is making a lot of sense. Just because a person thinks abortion is wrong doesn't mean he is a bible-thumping church goer. Come on, killing babies is killing babies.

Does everyone posting here fully understand the procedure we're talking about? A viable fetus is delivered only to the point where the head is still in the birth canal. If the head slips out of the birth canal and the procedure is continued, the Dr. can be brought on murder charges so he's very careful to keep that head in the birth canal. He then inserts a needle into the base of the fetus's neck and suck the brain out. Oftentimes the fetus spasms at this point. If you all don't believe me, look it up on google-it's all there. Now I fully believe that if a woman's life is at stake, save the woman. However, anyone that believes that abortions aren't used as birth control oftentimes, is willfully blind. again ladies, keep the legs together or take the pill. It's simple and it would eliminate discourse like this.

The ban did allow exceptions for the LIFE of the mother, not the health. There's an important distinction between the two because if the health of a mother is justification for a late term abortion then all it takes is some liberal doctor to justify any sort of health issue associated with giving birth as cause for an abortion. Even mental health due to stress could be potentially reason enough. What these bans do is prevent would-be mothers from killing babies that could already live outside the mother's womb. It has NOTHING to do with the woman's body and everything to do with protecting life. Liberals may not see the difference between this and executing a murderer (in most cases only gruesome or repeat murders). But conservatives and centrists do.

i (of course) bear no ill-regard toward those of you who appear to be making attempts at communicating with the brain-washed among us, but, though i am along with Mr. Obama a huge champion of communication, can we not agree that it is futile here? we know, for instance, the difference between a fetus & a baby; we know murder is a legal concept which does not apply to fetuses. they, however, cannot even see how the rhetoric drives their emotions and perpetuates their distortion fields. let us all be thankful our court systems and legislatures, though not without them, have not been overrun by the likes of them. i for one am not free from the oppression of the brain-washed masses that exists today, and am more enslaved than i would like to be (or care to admit?) by my fear for the day when that oppression has become the order of the day. i hope i do not live to see it. talk about hitler!

Read the decision, people--it has (almost) nothing to do with whether the law does or doesn't contain a health-of-the-mother clause. Instead, the judges decided that, although the Va. statute claimed that it was banning "partial birth abortions", the way it was written effectively banned ALL "D&E" abortions. And Va. isn't allowed to do that.

You know, there were some good points made here, but what gets me is how quick Americans are to throw everything under the alter of "ME". This nation is just another example of a mega society that is deteriorating under its own pile of aberration. Do you think that Rome knew it was really failing as a society? No, the people in Rome kept living on however they wanted, and then they collapsed. Same thing with every other Empire.

Jesus was for every person being valued. The sinner, the prostitute, the money-grubber, and (VERY pointedly) the child. They are the most defenseless of all, and it's a sick and evil tragedy that anyone would choose to sacrifice a child's life for the sake of their own lifeSTYLE. I know there are medical issues to consider, but don't you think we ought to just take a look at what's motivating abortions? It would be wonderful if we would stop bickering over everyone's 'rights' and focus on what our 'rights' are costing other people. And this goes waaaaaay beyond the abortion issue.

Besides the life of the pregnant woman, here is another scenario to consider: Elisabeth Fritzl.
She was literally kept prisoner and raped repeatedly by her father. She bore 7 children, one which died.
She had no choice in her pregnancies and whether or not she had sex.
Is it her fault she became pregnant? Are you going to tell her that she should have kept her legs shut?

"Abortion is a billion dollar business liberals will fight for. Planned Parenthood is in the business of murder, especially black babies."

Ah, what an absolutely hilarious troll...

Some useful points here: the "abortion rights" debate is not a racially motivated one and does not stem from racist motivations. The "black babies" remark doesn't add anything to this discussion, and will officially be ignored :)

Planned Parenthood (formally known as Planned Parenthood Federation of America) is a non-profit organization, receiving about 1/3rd of its funding straight from the government (1/3rd comes from clinic revenues, i.e. fees charged to clients; the rest comes from private donations). Abortion isn't a "growth industry" designed to turn a profit. Services are provided at cost. Whoops. There goes the "billion dollar business" notion. Also, it provides abortions, not murders. You may equate the terms, but the rest of us (along with the law of the land) do not.

Some conservatives support abortion. Some liberals oppose it.

Finally, we don't need to "fight" for abortion. It's already legal and will continue to be. The only fights left are in defending against nutjobs trying to force their religious beliefs on the behavior of others.

I guess your whole post misses the mark, eh?

Wow. We are now down to the definitions of words.

"we know, for instance, the difference between a fetus & a baby; we know murder is a legal concept which does not apply to fetuses."

Okay, so a fetus is a fetus. Remove it. It is really just a "tumor" or a piece of waste. But, hey, once that fe