Making shots, small ball and more

Just finished up with practice and I wanted to drop in with some info. The first issue of the day was the lousy shooting by DeShawn, Jarvis and, to a lesser extent, AD in what was a very winnable game last night. Those three combined to go 9 for 35 and one for nine from three-point range. Jarvis, who had been consistent dating back to the start of April, finished 2 for 13, DeShawn was 3 for 12 and is 6 for 24 in two games and AD was 4 for 10 despite the fact that Cleveland defenders are laying back and practically begging him to take the outside jumper.

DeShawn put in some extra shooting work after practice and said he's confident he can regain the stroke he had basically all season. Then again, ever since Gilbert and Caron went down, his shooting percentage and overall "swag" have dipped.

He's not making excuses.

"I'm not shooting the ball well and the only way to fix that is to come out and shoot. I have to get it going though."
On not having Gil and Caron around him: "It's different when you have an All-Star point guard who draws so much attention and you can just spot up. Now it's more of a situation where I have to create for myself and Antawn and other guys so it's tough but there are no excuses. I have to come out here and get extra shots up."

And, in a Q and A I know some folks on this blog are dying to read, I asked Eddie Jordan about his decision to go with a smaller lineup in the fourth quarter of Games 1 and 2. For the record, the Cavs held a 23-15 scoring edge and a 10-9 rebounding edge in the fourth quarter of Game 1. In Game 2, the Wiz held a 39-34 scoring edge but were outboarded 17-10 in the fourth quarter.

Me: "Eddie, why have you gone to smaller lineup and by that I mean a lineup without a center in the fourth quarter so far in this series?"
Eddie: "Because we've been in situations where we need to score and our centers aren't scoring - We've tried to establish Etan early in the post and Brendan scored 13 points (in Game 2) - he got it out of pure hustle and some dives, but for the most part, we're looking for Darius to be a scorer, Antawn to be a scorer, Jarvis...so we've played Darius at center. It's always good when you have a center like that and a four-man like that who can make shots from the perimeter."

Me: "But isn't their a trade-off with that? Don't you give up something in rebounding when you go small if those guys don't make shots?" (That's what happened in Game 1 when Antawn went 1 for 7 in the fourth, Jarvis went 1 for 3 and Songaila went 0 for 2. Bottom line and I've said it about this team for two years now even when Gil and Caron were healthy, it comes down to making shots with this team, pure and simple).

Eddie: "Well, yeah, if our centers are rebounding at a high level, then that can help us but if our centers are not rebounding at a high level then we have to go to something else."

I asked Brendan if he's suddenly selling a bunch of jerseys in Cleveland now that he's so popular (joking of course). His answer was classic. "I'm not selling any jerseys in Washington so I'm sure I won't be selling any in Cleveland."
I asked him what Varajeo said to tick him off so badly. Was it in English?
Brendan: "It was in English and it was profane."


By Ivan Carter |  April 26, 2007; 2:51 PM ET
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Ivan - As usual, great stuff. That answered my question, although it makes no kind of "basketball sense"; but at least it is an answer.

I comend you for asking the tough questions because I know Eddie "hates to see you coming" sometimes after the game.

Also, thanks for not getting all pissed off in the chat yesterday when the people were asking about Haywood's playing time.

I still don't know why your boy Mike Lee got all "bent out of shape" over the amount of questions pertaining to that.

Again, thanks for doing these blogs for us Wizard fans.........

Posted by: mikie | April 26, 2007 3:40 PM

That third quarter hurt so bad. It seemed it was doomed from the start. Once jamison received an arm to the side and went to the floor, so did their game. Jarvis needs to use the pump fake. he gets the pass and immediately squares and the defender jumps, evertime! Use that to your advantage and fake it. It will work because you never ever do it! It might not be a 3 pointer but at least the rebound will be under the basket and not at half court.

Posted by: arlington | April 26, 2007 3:44 PM

Thanks Ivan. Good to see you are back on speaking terms with Brendan.

Posted by: BigA | April 26, 2007 3:49 PM

I guess E.J. doesn't think you can get hustle points in the 4th quarter; they all have to be high arching, perfect-rotation, nothing-but-net, jump shots.

Oh well, he knows what he's talking about. He's the coach.

Posted by: M.E.G. | April 26, 2007 3:57 PM

Eddie: "Well, yeah, if our centers are rebounding at a high level, then that can help us but if our centers are not rebounding at a high level then we have to go to something else."

Ivan. What does Eddie call a "high level". How can the "centers" get a "high level" of rebounds if they are never in there??

He never gives them a chance to really get any "high level" numbers. Haywood was playing at a "high level" the whole game with "high level" amounts of rebounds for the time he was in there. That did not do anything for him to see minutes in the 4th quarter.

Why didn't Eddie play "offense/defense" with small ball after the 5 minute mark? Smallball for Offense and Bigball for defense? You can not play Smallball for 11 minutes in the 4th quarter and expect to get any rebounds, much less score the way Stevenson and Hayes were shooting. What game was Eddie watching?????

Eddie's excuses have so many holes in them it is not funny. I would just like to see one game where he lets Haywood or Booth play the last 5 to 6 minutes in the 4th quarter. Just one................!!!!

Posted by: mikie | April 26, 2007 4:00 PM

I should be playing out there,yo, what the dilly nilly?

Posted by: Andray Blatche | April 26, 2007 4:38 PM

Ivan:
I find that Q and A with Jordan especially revealing. How do you analyze/interpret it, Ivan?

Did you tape the interview, or is the language you used above just your best recollection? I'll assume you taped it, because then we can parse the language like good Washingtonians:

- I find the answer to your first question incredibly revealing. Jordan says, "We need to score and our centers aren't scoring." At the end of the third quarter, the Wizards had scored 63 points, and the two centers scored 22 of those on 8 of 11 shooting. So when Jordan says that the centers aren't scoring, I think he means that they aren't scoring in the way that his offense is designed to get scores. He is more comfortable with a big who can hit jumpshots like Songalia. And it goes without saying that whenever Jordan's team falls behind, the solution he looks for is an offensive solution. He has NEVER said, "We were down by 12, so I put my best defenders in."

- "We've played Darius at center. It's always good when you have a center like that and a four-man like that who can make shots from the perimeter." Again, Jordan wants jump-shooting big men. If that's the case, why not move both Thomas and Haywood this summer, because they clearly are not the types of players Jordan wants?

In response to your second question, Jordan responds, "Well, yeah, if our centers are rebounding at a high level, then that can help us but if our centers are not rebounding at a high level then we have to go to something else."

This confirms what I have always suspected, namely that Jordan feels his non-jumpshooting centers are good for two things: blocks that lead to fast breaks, and rebounds. If his centers aren't racking up rebounds, there is no need to have them in the game. It explains why Ruffin gets so much time -- he rebounds well and blocks shots, so he is as good as Thomas and Haywood in Jordan's mind. It also may help explain his preference for Thomas over Haywood. Haywood is not nimble enough to fly to the ball on rebounds. So instead, he rebounds by boxing out his man and catching the balls that come in his direction. Sometimes you will see Haywood have a low number of rebounds and think he did not do a good job on the boards; but what you don't see is that he kept his man off the offensive glass and opened up space to allow other Wizards players to grab boards. You'd prefer the guy that can sky and snatch it, but since he can't do that, boxing his guy out and clearing space should work, if other guys box their guys out, that is.

Anyway, that was an interesting exchange. Sorry for the long post.

Posted by: Henry | April 26, 2007 4:39 PM

Yo Henry. That was an excellent analysis. The way you put all that makes sense for the weird substitution patterns made by Eddie. Something to think aobut......

Posted by: mikie | April 26, 2007 4:53 PM

I'm sure Jordan would love to have C's who could post up on the block in a half court set or hit the face up jumper and deliver double digit scoring and high percantage shooting on a regular basis. But he doesn't have them. So he uses who he has to the best of their ability. His C's aren't scorers, so if he wants to amp up the offense, having them in can be counter productive.

And the idea about blocking out the opposing big to let a teammate snare the rebound is a great idea in theory. in practice, however, it's not something the Wizards do much, given that they gave up more RPG than all but three teams and have one of the worst rebounding differentials in the NBA.

Posted by: kalorama | April 26, 2007 5:00 PM

Right now with Caron out of the lineup we've lost our other best positional rebounder. When this team was clicking earlier in the year, Haywood and Caron were both boxing out under the boards and nuetralizing the other team's best rebounders and allowing Jamison, Gil, and Stevenson to have decent rebounding numbers.
What Haywood has never quite mastered is that almost sixth sense of when to release from his man and what angle to take for the ball.
But defensively Haywood is a space eater and that is difficult to measure with statistics and is even sometimes hard to see when you watch the game. Guys like Big Gheorghe and Mark Eaton were total game changers that at first look you wandered why and the heck are they out there.
But I think Eddie's interview underscores that he has no confidence in either of our 5's offensively. Songalia is the best alternative at 5 if Eddie isn't going to play our bigs. But I plain don't understand why Jordan has never figured out defensive offensive switches to utilize all the guns in the arsenal.
Bottem line, this coach really has no confidence in either of the centers he's inherited here and after 4 seasons that's not going to change. EG needs to make finding Center that can be a factor in this offense and not a liability on defense the number one priority .

Posted by: GM | April 26, 2007 8:34 PM

All of you need to relax and take it easy on EJ. Any season ticket holder for 18 years has been through much, much worse than this. As sad as it is, without Gilbert and Caron we are a lottery team. Like most lottery teams, we can hang with the top tier teams, but eventually just don't have enough talent or energy left in the tank to pull it out. Eddie and his coaches are just trying to hang in there and hoping to get lucky. Game 2 was a game they could have won if they just hit a couple of shots down the stretch. Would you be calling for his head even then?

Posted by: larry roberts | April 26, 2007 10:06 PM

Although I was - in fact still am - upset with Eddie for not putting Haywood back in last night and for not playing Blatche, I have to hand it to him for doing the best he can in a very challenging situation. I mean, most (probably all) NBA coaches would be going through the same thing if two of their All Star players (and best scorers) went down.

Posted by: Lisa | April 26, 2007 10:13 PM

"But defensively Haywood is a space eater and that is difficult to measure with statistics and is even sometimes hard to see when you watch the game. Guys like Big Gheorghe and Mark Eaton were total game changers that at first look you wandered why and the heck are they out there."

Then we're watching two different Haywoods. Because the one I've seen over the past 6 years (10 counting college) is a guy who's nowhere near as strong as his size would indicate, has trouble establishing and holding any kind of deep position in the post at either end, and because of he lacks any explosiveness off the floor has trouble rebounding in traffic.

He's not in the same book as Eaton and Muresan, who where massive giants at a time when NBA players in general were smaller than they are now.

Posted by: kalorama | April 26, 2007 10:50 PM

What are our chances of winning one game before we exit the playoffs? It'll give us fans at least something to smile about.

Posted by: Rico | April 26, 2007 11:03 PM

I just have a problem with Songaila at the 5 which to me shows a complete disregard for the defensive end. They can't score enough to be able to play that kind of lineup. How many rebounds through 3 quarters are enough to warrant time in the 4th. Six, 8, 10? What is enough? I don't by this reasoning. It isn't like Jordan can just come out and say "You know what, I don't like Haywood, never have and I don't want to play him."

Posted by: George Templeton | April 27, 2007 12:49 AM

Ivan, that was great!! Absolute Classic!

I really don't understand the logic. The centers weren't scoring? Nobody was scoring! The only players doing anything offensively were Jamison, Darius and Haywood. If that's his reasoning, then why on earth is Jarvis on the floor?! When he takes the centers out, the opponent gets uncontested layups and we give up 2nd and 3rd chance points, and we don't get the boards or 2nd chance points on our end. Like you pointed out, we are strictly jumpshooting, and when we miss that's it. I thought Haywood played well. I like Darius, but at the 5 you gotta have someone who can contest some shots. If you want some more offense from the spot, what about giving Booth or Blatche a chance?

If we needed scoring as Eddie claims, Jarvis should have been the odd man out with his poor shooting performance. Frontcourt of Haywood, Daris, and Jamison would have gotten us boards and buckets.

Posted by: Darnell | April 27, 2007 1:16 AM

Or play Hayes at SG because Deshawn certainly wasn't doing it. AD, Hayes, Jamison, Darius, Haywood.

I mean our strategy, which has been effective, is to slow the game down. So I don't get going small, which benefits running. We are slowing it down, which favors utilizing a big lineup and controlling the boards.

Posted by: Darnell | April 27, 2007 1:24 AM

Sorry Wizards fans, I acknowledge I am an incompetent coach and a complete idiot. I choose to play small ball and choose to sit out haywood and Andray because I really want to SHOVE it to you fans and not give you who you want to see and WHO SHOULD be playing. What can I say? I'm a terrible coach. I only want my version of offense to be played and that's it, defense is not very important because I never learned how to play defense and was never coached on defense.

That sucker Ernie doesn't know I'm a terrible coach because he was lucky to have landed gilbert arenas even though I didn't want him to be on the team at first.

My ideal starting lineup (if I don't get hounded by you fans and Ernie) would be AD, My Secret Lover Jarvis Hayes, jamison, songalia, and michael ruffin.

So in the future, stop commenting on my lack of coaching skills and my utter disregard to common basketball sense because I am acknowledging I am a bad coach and am too in love with Jarvis and Ruffin to think clearly.

Bye
-Your head coach

Posted by: Eddie Jordan | April 27, 2007 2:38 AM

"If we needed scoring as Eddie claims, Jarvis should have been the odd man out with his poor shooting performance. Frontcourt of Haywood, Daris, and Jamison would have gotten us boards and buckets.

Posted by: Darnell | April 27, 2007 01:16 AM

Darnell - I totally agree, this is the frontcourt that should be in starting at the 8 minute mark in the 4th until closing. The backcourt should be AD and either Jarvis or DeShawn, depending on who is "hot". You need one of them to guard LeBron on the defensive end.

Although if it was up to me, I would have Mason in over the both of them because his jumper is more liable to go in before one of their's ever does. But I know that is not going to happen because Mason is considered the 11th or 12th man and Eddie can not see himself putting Mason in over Jarvis or Stevenson in the crucial end to a 4th quarter (although he has no problem putting in Ruffin over Booth, Haywood and Thomas); again "go figure".

Smallball is alright to play when you are playing offense/defense in the later minutes of the 4th quarter (3 minutes and under). You still have to play defense on the other end and get rebounds and contested shots.

How in the heck playing small ball on defense is ever going to be benefical???? Yet Eddie ran it for 11 minutes in the 4th quarter??????!!!!! Smallball is for scoring and "running" as a earlier poster mentioned. It will not get you rebounds will it?????????

I am trying "so hard" to hang in there with Eddie because as I said before the man is a very good coach, but man is he stubborn. Sometimes I can not help to wonder if he is calling such bad games in the 4th quarter out of spite?

Who that spite is directed at, I do not know? But I hope Eddie can put all of that aside and think about the "team" and what is best for them first, versus having these little "sidebar" personal wars with management and players.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 27, 2007 8:56 AM


Mason over AD, Stevenson Jamison and Jarvis & songalia??? Sorry, anonymous I don't know what team you've been watching or you've got to be the guy's brother. Thats ridiculous. Just from a professional Analysts view: Mike Wise, Smith, Ivan Carter, Mike Lee and Wilbon - would NOT put the ball in Mason's hands at end of 4th qtr. So far only Jamison can be trusted. Mason, Although he's been around longer than Haywood - this is as far as he's developed. Does that say anything?

The guy is no better with the jackin up 3's than Jarvis. Thats scary! Should be in the Developmental League and according to Wise will be shortly along with Taylor, his brother and Hall. Jarvis is reportedly "gone" as well. But who knows - this love affair with developmentally challenged professional players may very well persist. There are other much more talented players that can provide some real scoring to use as backup. These are Wiz Mgt, coach and Scouting Staff choices.

According to EJ - when he "doesn't" use a person often - its because they are NOT consistent and does not feel he can trust them. Why he put them on his bench in the first place is beyond me..no money?

This is Eddie's doing - period.

Before this series started - Eddie Jordan said openly - Taylor, Hall and Mason would get burned. Eddies' doing the best he can with his experiment which is biting him and the rest of us in the butt.

Posted by: Tank | April 27, 2007 9:30 AM

Kalorama, What I've seen is a servicable NBA center, that is good enough to play in the rotation for most of the teams in this league, that is very badly matched to the offensive and defensive systems Jordan uses.
Even then he has managed to start 317 of 444 games played and average 5.7 rebounds and 6.9 points in a little over 20 minutes per game over his career. In 6 seasons with 4 under the same coach what you see is about what your going to get here. I think Haywood and the Wizards would be well served for him to try to advance his career elsewhere.
The point I was trying to make about eating space in the lane is pretty simple to understand if you've ever played down low with the big boys. There is a hugh difference between a 7/0 with long arms and a 6/8 guy defensively. He doesn't have to grab a rebound or block a shot to make that difference. Early in the season when Haywood was playing well he was making that difference for this team.
When this team was playing well we were not giving up layups. Our defense of three pointers was still lacking but we had made a step forward in protecting the lane. But from your posts debating Haywood with Mikie and your downplaying that he has any trade value you have a very different opinion of him.
I just tend to think he has more value as a player and as a mobile 7/0 is a tougher type of player to find than you. Considering this offensive system and the skills that a center needs to have in it, I'm really hard pressed to come up with too many guys that can play the 5 for us and be a defensive force and a strong rebounder.

Posted by: GM | April 27, 2007 9:42 AM

Mikie

Posted by: mikie | April 27, 2007 10:02 AM

EJ was a guard when he played in NBA, so he injected his style of play to the team. He once led NBA in steals, so his players, Hughes, Arenas, Butler were among top steal leaders playing for him.

He complained about his centers are not scorers. True, but Wizards have never brought any big men in to help develop their centers into scorers. Both Etan and Haywood played their entire NBA career as Wizards (Etan never played in his first season as Mavs), but what help did Wizards ever gave to them? To EJ, centers are there to block shots, help out defensively, that's all. I was quite surprised that Wizards didn't go for Earl Boykins, a good scorer in his own right, and have him play center for the Wizards in the 4th quarter.

Posted by: Sagaliba | April 27, 2007 10:29 AM

Tank - I am anonymous on that 8:56 am. post. I forgot to put my name in. I thought I did it but it did not go through until that 10:02 a.m. post.

Tank - I was not saying Mason was the answer, but out of those three guys I mentioned, he does have the most reliable "j". Plus he has a nice "handle" that I did not realize he had.

"Just from a professional Analysts view: Mike Wise, Smith, Ivan Carter, Mike Lee and Wilbon - would NOT put the ball in Mason's hands at end of 4th qtr. So far only Jamison can be trusted". Tank

Tank Now as with the "proffesional Analysts" view, if their names are not Hubie Brown, Doug Collins or Kenny Smith I won't really accept what Wise and the others say about some of the Wizards players games.

No disrepect to Wise and the rest of the folks you mentioned, I just would not take what they say about a player as much as the three folks I mentioned above.

Don't look at where Mason is sitting on the pine. There is a thing called "right place, right time" and "numbers game". That is his history. Look at folks that were just like them before they found their "place". John Starks, Bruce Bowen, and Earl Bokins to name a few. They had to play on a lot of teams and overseas before they came into the right situation. It is all about timing and blessings.

To a trained eye, you can see that the dude has a some game with him. He just needs minutes, just like Haywood. I know I am on the minority on this, so I'm prepared for the "hits" and comments, but it is still cool with me.

Posted by: mikie | April 27, 2007 10:29 AM

GM,

I understand exactly what you're trying to say. Where we disagree is how much of it applies to Haywood. Not much, from my decade of watching him.

He's not a space eater, other than the space he occupies just standing there. Despite his size, he's not esp. strong or physically tough and routinely gets outmuscled under the boards. More often than not, he'ss the one being blocked out so the other bigs teammates can grab the ball (thus accounting for the Wizards woeful rebounding numbers). He's also not very mobile. He runs up and down the floor well, but his lateral movement is average at best. And he has no vertical lift, esp. on second jump, which results in his having diffuculty rebounding in a crowd (to say nothing of the rarity with which he's able to convert offensive putbacks at the rim).

I agree he can be a serviceable center, but certainly not by virtue of innate talent alone. On that score he's mediocre, at best. His real value comes when he plays with full energy, focus, and hustle (and even then he's basically just ok/decent/average). And that has always been the drawback with Haywood, because he too often doesn't play that way. He too often half-asses it and goes through the motions. And when he does that all he's doing is wasting space, not eating it. And thus the reason for his current residence in Jordan's doghouse.

At least we can agree that we're likely seeing the last of Haywood in a Wizards uniform.

Posted by: kalorama | April 27, 2007 11:04 AM

Mikie, just like Eddie's got a love Jones for Jarvis & Ruffin so do you with this tweener Mason.

Can't begin to imagine what games you been watching but then with a love jones..ya'll can't see straight anyway.

Every other post its like "puppy love"
oooooh, I love his handle, his touches and when he releasessss the "ball" is money!

Mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!Mikieeeeeeee

Posted by: Tank | April 27, 2007 11:55 AM

By the way, final +/- numbers from this season:

The Wizards outscored the opposition when the following players were on the floor (# of points per 48 minutes):

Booth, +5.4
Arenas, +3.3
Haywood, +2
Jamison, +1.8
Butler, +1.3
Songalia, +.3

The Wizards were outscored by the opposition when the following players were off the floor (# of points per 48 minutes):

Arenas, -10.8
Jamison, -4.8
Butler, -3.1
Haywood, -2.2
Booth, -1
Songalia, -0.5
Daniels, -0.3

A few things jump out:
- The top 5 in each list are the same, as well as the top 6. It can be argued, then, that those are the team's best 5 players and best 6 players.
- Booth?? He played the fewest minutes of the 6, so perhaps the results are a bit of a statistical anomaly/margin of error. But maybe not.
- When the Wizards are behind in the fourth, you would think Jordan would go with the players who, when on the floor, cause the team to outscore the opposition the most, instead of with "scorers," as he puts it. When everyone is healthy, that would mean a lineup of Arenas, Butler, Jamison, Booth and Haywood. Any arguments with that lineup? Right now, the top five healthy players would be Jamison, Booth, Haywood, Songalia and Daniels. That's 4 forwards and one guard, so drop the lowest forward (Songalia) and replace with the next best player (Stevenson). Any arguments with that lineup?

Posted by: Henry | April 27, 2007 11:56 AM

word is that AGENT ZERO has beaten out LEBRON to get the cover of NBA Live 2008. Good for him!

Posted by: k-man | April 27, 2007 11:59 AM

GM, I agree with you that Haywood has value. We will see.

Ivan and Wise both said the plan is Haywood & Hayes for..........?

Got a sense they're looking international.
The guys give you less grief, hungry for NBA and will play for less.

Posted by: Robin | April 27, 2007 12:09 PM

kalorama,

Every player has good games and bad games. Their value to the team of course is when they play well, and not when they play bad. Take Etan for instance, he played great in season opener against Cleveland, shooting 7 for 7 (14 pts) in 22 minutes, but disappeared against the same team in the first playoff game shooting 1 for 4 and scored only 2 pts in 21 minute.

Same is Haywood, he has good games and bad ones. One thing I don't understand though is that whenever Haywood had a bad game, people would come out and criticize his lack of focus, energy, etc. Sure, we would like to see Haywood on top of his game all the time (or a good percentage of the time) but I don't understand why is Haywood singled out for criticism? I am not convinced that Etan has a higher percentage of "good games" than Haywood. (I am not here to criticize Etan either, I am just asking why Haywood being singled out.)

Posted by: Sagaliba | April 27, 2007 12:10 PM

if international players give you so much less grief, where's navarro?

Posted by: another girl | April 27, 2007 12:15 PM

Henry, I'm fine with that..now fax to Eddie Jordan.

Posted by: Robin | April 27, 2007 12:16 PM

why are so many people so adamant about criticizing the end of the bench? no team has 12 to 15 all stars. only a very small handful of teams even have 12 to 15 starter caliber players. the wizards just had unfortunate luck and now these players are thrust into positions they are not used to being in; further, due to their positions at the end of the bench and jordan's rotations, they didn't get much experience to fall back on at all. this doesn't include deshawn stevenson and hayes, b/c i suppose they got those minutes all along. but otherwise, what do you expect? i know there are no moral victories but they aren't playing that badly in this series. and either way, the answer isn't criticizing the players who would normally be the 10-15th men on the team. focus a little more energy on deshawn stevenson and his horrible shooting, for example. that's someone you should expect more out of right now. even if he doesn't care about a wiz victory at this point, doesn't he want to earn his money back?

Posted by: another girl | April 27, 2007 12:24 PM

Sagaliba,

I think it's pretty obvious why Haywood gets more criticism. It's been discussed ad nauseum around here. It's not about good games vs. bad. It's about effort vs. lack of effort. Thomas has plenty of bad games, but he rarely has bad games because he didn't give full effort on the floor. He hustles and works whenever he steps onto the court. Sometimes it brings results, sometimes it doesn't. But that's clearly the reason why Jordan prefers Thomas (or even Ruffin) to Haywood.

Haywood too often dogs it on the court, going at half-speed and shorting the team on effort. He's not a good enough player to get away with that, not by a longshot. Now, does giving full effort guarantee a good game? Of course not. But it raises the odds significantly. Esp. for a player whose success is so dependent of effort and energy (as opposed to raw talent).

If Haywood isn't giving full effort, he's a nonproductive player and a liability.

Posted by: kalorama | April 27, 2007 12:27 PM

Hmmm Sagaliba, you pose a very interesting question.

One can only gather that the fans attitude is a result of comments made by the coach and the media considering we don't know the guy. And not just us..there are tons of media types curious what the deal is with Haywood and Jordan. Its an ongoing saga.

Jordan regularly criticizes the guy for lack of focus, no energy, unreliable, etc.
Eventually it will effect the individual even a young NBA millionaire who is told "he ain't worth nothing"

I like the last couple of posters think the dude needs better training cuz somebody will take him quickly.

Posted by: Tank | April 27, 2007 12:31 PM

Mikie and Henry have articulated the frustration we fans have with Eddie perfectly. What is particularly frustrating for me is that EJ has managed to keep the team motivated and playing hard despite all the injuries and mounting losses -- no easy task, and something few coaches not to mention bloggers could ever accomplish. What should be easy is putting the best line-up on the court at the right time -- something those of us watching from the stands or on our TV's seem to have a better sense of than the coach.

Posted by: Charlie32 | April 27, 2007 1:08 PM

Wizards organization in general does not know how to develop players. Players that left stepped up their game going to other teams. This pretty much sums it up.

Posted by: bdunkadunk | April 27, 2007 1:29 PM

bdunkadunk, with that in mind, which players on the roster right now make you most leery of that situation happening again?

Posted by: another girl | April 27, 2007 1:40 PM

We've been talking about games when Haywood does not give full effort. But every player has games like those. (I've not going to argue whether Haywood has more or less, because of course I don't know.) When Arenas, Butler or Jamison don't give full effort in a game, they still might score 20 points. But instead of taking it inside, they might lazily settle for outside shots and end up going 8 for 20, or something like that. And on the defensive end, they might not exert full effort. But you never hear the night after Butler has 20 points, 8 rebounds that he dogged it. But that might be the case if he shot mostly perimeter shots, had a bad FG%, and the guy he was guarding lit him up.

Posted by: Joe | April 27, 2007 1:53 PM

Joe,

You raise a good point, but one that's already been addressed. The obvious difference between Haywood not giving full effort and Arenas or Bulter not giving full effort is talent. The latter two guys are talented enough that even on off nights effort-wise, they can still skate by on innate talent and be productive. Haywood isn't. In order to be productive and effective, he must give full physical and emptional effort. He too often doesn't, and it hurts the team.

bdunkadunk , what players who left the Wizards "stepped up their games"?

Webber had more success with the Kings, but that was because the Kings were a better team. He was an all-star in D.C. just as in Cali. Howard's done nothing of note since leaving. Wallace was playing behind two all-stars in Howard and Webber (as well as behind Muresan) and couldn't get on the floor. He benefitted more from PT than anything else after leaving. Hughes had his best season in D.C. Stack was an All-Star before he got here, and was hurt most of the time he was here. Hamilton went from a single digit scorer to a 20 ppg scorer here. Sounds like development to me. There's really no history of some other teams taking the Wizards castoff scrubs and turning them into stars.

"Jordan regularly criticizes the guy for lack of focus, no energy, unreliable, etc.
Eventually it will effect the individual even a young NBA millionaire who is told "he ain't worth nothing""

That logic only holds if the crticisms aren't true to begin with. If they are, then the problem isn't Jordan's criticisms, it's Haywood's failure to respond to them by working hard to prove Jordan wrong.

Posted by: kalorama | April 27, 2007 2:09 PM

we've covered DS adnauseum. Not much more to be said. They either get it or they don't.

Not interested in the end of the bench anymore Brendan Haywood has hopefully been freed from the his holding cell or kennel as M. Wise said.

Thought DeShawn or Gil would have had a shirt made for him that read:
"Free at last, Free at last, Thank God Almighty, I'm Free at last.

But then, that might have caused him to get thrown back into solitary confinement. For now, he's "Free to move about the country(like SW airlines!)On to more interesting and challenging things like getting a couple of wins.

Posted by: Wizfan2 | April 27, 2007 2:21 PM

Anything could be true Kalorama - but surfice it to say - practically everybody on this post has agreed - the way you get better at this game is training & practice and real playing time. Nobody's saying he's right /EJ is wrong but learned NBA coaches have often opined & agree Wiz have not developed him. Even Mikie's Kenny Smith. A few other names come to mind.
We had Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Rick Hamilton and prob others that have rolled out - gotten into a more dif environment ie disciplined and prob structured environment and flourished provided the basic substance & talent is there.

If it isn't there..it ain't happenin

Posted by: tank | April 27, 2007 2:35 PM

kalorama,

Yes, it has been discussed ad museum, but many others like me just aren't convinced.

"Effort" is a purely judgment call. I am not convinced that waving the ball after every rebound like Etan did means he makes more "effort" than just go up and grab one quitely. People like me like to look at the result, and not just hearsay. And the result did not show that Haywood is a less effective center than Etan.

EJ may prefer Etan over Haywood, but EJ also prefer Songaila over Etan (as neither Etan nor Haywood played in the 4th quarter of both playoff games). The fact is, EJ likes to play "small ball," and do not like slower big guy. Unfortunately, the rule of thumb is, the bigger you are, the more likely you are slower than the smaller guys. To me, that's the "style of play," and not the question of "effort." If you listen to other commentators, they often pointed out that Wizards' guard cannot stop opposing guards penetration, so why no one question their "effort" in playing defense?

Posted by: Sagaliba | April 27, 2007 2:57 PM

"Mikie, just like Eddie's got a love Jones for Jarvis & Ruffin so do you with this tweener Mason".

Yo Tank. Whats your deal, my man? I see you got jokes. First of all I was replying to someone's post about Jarvis not hitting anything. As you already know, the Wizards don't have many options at the 2 as it is.

So through process of elimination, I thought through the last few games played Mason outside jumper was hitting more than Jarvis or Stevenson. That is all I was trying to point out.

I never said the dude was the "second coming" of Reggie Miller. This chat is about talking basketball and your opinions on the Wizards. Dang dude, what is your hangup with me giving the dude a little credit?

And yes, Mason did surprise me with his "dribbling" (i.e. "handle"). Is that better? So what's so wrong with mentioning that? My man, that post of yours did not have anything to do about basketball, but it was just about joke time.

I am not posting on this blog for that kind of stuff. I am here to talk basketball, so can we do that now?

Posted by: mikie | April 27, 2007 3:31 PM

Tank answered it for you Kalorama. "We had Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Rick Hamilton and prob others that have rolled out - gotten into a more dif environment ie disciplined and prob structured environment and flourished provided the basic substance & talent is there."

Another person that might be in this list is Andray Blatche. If they don't develop or pay close attention to this guy, then he might be a very good player with another team.

Etan Thomas, didn't see any bit of improvement from this guy. Could be just lack of talent and partly Wizards staff guidance. I mean look at Chris Bosh's improvement?

To comment on EJ's 4th Quarter "go to" guys. How can he win with a small line-up with bad shooting percentages and no shot blocking at all? His team aint Chicago that swishes ball in the rim...his team aint the run n gun Suns that just tears you up on speed even with poor defense! The line-up is just too small compared to Cleveland. (Ilgauskas, Gooden, Varejao, James, Hughes) How can any have a clear look at the rim if you are up against these giants?

Posted by: bdunkadunk | April 27, 2007 3:45 PM

What makes me leery is that Gil is going to wind up leaving if something major does not put the Wiz at a different level next season. Because right now as far as the team is concerned, we are not too much better than the team that got us in the first finals. And, I think Arenas wants to be on a team that has the best chance of contending for a championship and soon. I don't see that happening with the current squad. Not soon that is. As for Haywood and EJ, it is no different than supervising a number of employees. You have to deal with each team member individually. We saw what happened to Kwame here when he was constantly put down in the news as worthless. He played in that manner. I think Haywood has some good qualities, but that EJ is not the kind of coach to bring it out. He couldn't do it for Kwame either. We have to remember, they are all "young" men and are still malleable if some one would take the time to develope them mentally as well as physically. And, as a coach, you can't show favorites, it makes for disharmony among the ranks. Also, I am not sure what EJ meant when he said in the post that there was not much talent but a lot of effort. You don't put you team down like that in public. Unless he was using a psychological tactic.

Posted by: wisfan | April 27, 2007 3:49 PM

Gosh,,,I can't remember the tiny guard's name that was with Denver, gave Wiz fits and ate the Wiz alive when they played Denver -prob all by himself? Arenas loves chattin it with him..

He got traded as I recall. He never backs down - runs past them and around get his lay up or hits a three. All heart & smarts.

The first GS v. Dallas game - GS went small ball on Johnson & he couldn't match up. Second game - he figured another way..Get rid of the player - foul them out.

How come we never do that? The older coaches use it like a tool..

Posted by: Anonymous | April 27, 2007 4:04 PM

yes WisFan, Eddie said it in the Washington Post, USA Today etc. to Reporters. Quite Frankly, I think thats the problem he & Arenas have. Arenas countered some of that. And its started to spill over to the press. Its but so much folks can take. Arenas has announced he will not sit by and do nothing. They know all this PR is for a reason. He's not going to let O'Malley & Abe make big money off him then dismiss him like MJ. and they are making cash, cash, cash.

Thats why GA does what he does. He observed the orig. King - MJ, get sent to the field powerless like a slave hand in his benz. It won't happen to Arenas.

I am convinced The ONLY thing that will reverse the comments, depresseion and last seat on the bench sense?...Winning!

Posted by: robin | April 27, 2007 4:46 PM

No small irony is that EJ likes to play small ball and has the P.E.R.F.E.C.T small ball center and played him zero minutes in the last game. If you are looking for a center who can shoot and score at least go with Blatche and let Jamison and Songaila play down a notch.

Posted by: JJ | April 27, 2007 5:11 PM

"We had Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Rick Hamilton and prob others that have rolled out - gotten into a more dif environment ie disciplined and prob structured environment and flourished provided the basic substance & talent is there."

Sorry, but that doesn't hold an ounce of water. The initial complaint was about the failure of the Wizards to develop players. Rasheed was only here for one season. And there's no question he was better when he left than when he got here. Would he have gotten better if he stayed? Well, there's obviously no wway to know, is there? In his three years with the Wiz, Hamilton went from scoring 9 ppg to 20 ppg. That sounds like development to me. And I already covered Wallace. During the time he was here he was playing behind two guys who, at the time, were unquestionably better than him. Should they have sat Webber and Howard to give him run? That said, he did show improvement during the course of his time with the Wiz. but it took more PT for him to fully blossom, PT he just wasn't going to get in D.C. If not for Unseld and Bernie taking a chance on him, he might not ever have made it into the NBA, given that he'd already been cut twice before that.

Just because these guys continued to get better after they left hardly invalidates the improvement they made while they were here. The Wiz have a long, glorious history of front office and coaching screw ups, but not developing talented players when they have them is not high up on the list.

And really, what does any of this have to do with Haywood? As noted, Haywood's been the starter here for 5+plus years and, until this season, at no point did he ever have any challengers for the job. He had every opportunity to take command of the starting C job and failed to do so. As for "training" what, exactly, do you think those four years at Carolina were for?

They guy's been in the NBA 6 years. If he's still waiting around for someone to show him how to play basketball, then he's beyond help.

Posted by: kalorama | April 27, 2007 5:54 PM

"Etan Thomas, didn't see any bit of improvement from this guy. Could be just lack of talent and partly Wizards staff guidance. I mean look at Chris Bosh's improvement?"

First, Thomas has missed a ton of games almost every year due to injury, including all of what would have been his rookie year. That's going to monkey with a guy's growth. Second, he's simply not all that talented to begin with. He's a hustle energy guy, not a skill guy. (But, unlike Haywood, he sems to understand and accept that role.)

And even a passing compariosn of his development to Bosh is ludicrous. They have nothing in common. If you're measuring anything Thomas does using Bosh as a yardstick you're destined to be disappointed.

Posted by: kalorama | April 27, 2007 6:00 PM

I've heard far out wishes for players to go after in the offseason. I believe Milicic is a free agent after this season and offering him decent money and most likely the starting center position here a possibility??? That guys got more potential than Etan and H'wood combined and is probably already better than both. Is this a remote possibility Ivan?

BTW, I hear EJ on needing scoring in the 4th and, therefore, going to smallball. Two problems with that reasoning: One, is that really occuring. Two, is that leaving our defense and rebounding so porous that it does not matter how many points we score. I say he is not getting the big picture of what is happening on the court in real time. EJ great guy! Norv Turner of the NBA.

Posted by: Rob P | April 27, 2007 7:14 PM

I don't think Eddie meant they have "no talent" - he meant they are lacking scorers without Gil and Caron. Peter Vecsey asked Eddie that question last week and that was the term he used "so Eddie, how do you expect to win without talent?" Eddie answered with a laugh but you could tell he was ticked off.

Posted by: Lisa | April 27, 2007 7:45 PM

Kalorama, you have good points. You are a positive thinker. If the Wiz organization thinks like this, sometimes it could go against them and not see the other side of things. Indeed these players played well, scored points, had losing playoff runs when they were here. No digitydoubt!I guess the Detroit Pistons are using them very well the past few years. ;-) I wasn't comparing Etan to Bosh and even Haywood. My point is that a player's talent can improve when he has the drive and work ethic to get better. If it's obvious a player doesn't give signs of improvement yr after yr, then just give this player up. Trade, buyout contract, do whatever to bring someone that can contribute right away.

Posted by: bdunkadunk | April 27, 2007 8:04 PM

Ima be at the phone booth tomorrow cheering my ass off for the Wizards. I am a casual reader of this blog and ever since Arenas and Tough Juice went down it has been nothing but criticism and angst around here. Maybe this blog represents a cross-section of Wizards fans or maybe it's just a few die-hards but either way its a dang shame. We're in the playoffs people!! The Cavs can be beaten by THIS team!! Our boys are playing hard and y'all sit here and complain about EJ and his rotations, player development, blah blah blah. C'mon, just cheer your lungs out and save the "analysis" for after the season...
For some Wizards fans y'all sure are critical. I'm squarely with Wise on this one, we should cheer now and criticize/analyze later...

Posted by: Essex | April 27, 2007 10:51 PM

Good for you, Essex! The players were saying tonight they really need the Sixth Man to come out tomorrow night and make noise. Wish I could be there but instead I will be cheering from home.

Posted by: Lisa | April 27, 2007 11:22 PM

Essex I understand your point, but some of the shortcomings that people have been criticizing Eddie Jordan for since this team started sliding in Feb. have become more pronounced given this team's difficult situation.
And given where this team sat at the All-Star break (2nd in the conference) to now (7th seed, 0-2 hole and sinking fast), it is only natural to speculate and suggest for the offseason.
And speaking of that, Rob P your suggestion is a good one, but I think someone will offer far over what he should make so we won't be able to get him.

Posted by: George Templeton | April 28, 2007 1:17 AM

Etan is better than Brenda.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2007 2:21 AM

Wisfan wrote, "I think Haywood has some good qualities, but that EJ is not the kind of coach to bring it out. He couldn't do it for Kwame either. We have to remember, they are all "young" men and are still malleable if some one would take the time to develope them mentally as well as physically."

That's a bit of revisionist history, dude. Did you actually follow Kwame's career here? Kwame was ruined by MJ and Clown Collins, and by the time EJ got here he was a lost cause as far as the Wiz were concerned.

If you want to criticize EJ for how he handles players, would you prefer having Collins back lol?

Posted by: Mitch | April 28, 2007 9:01 AM

Essex, I probably rate as one of the somewhat critical fans and I will be in the house today for the first time in years. We can cheer our team like maniacs and still be upset when we see ways that they could win. Quite frankly, what is most frustrating is that they are playing their guts out and getting close despite the injuries. We are not sure if it is coaching or the character of the players or what.

I do give coach some credit for this. But that doesn't minimize other things that we see that are very hard to understand. We would all love to see us win the series but we are realists. I hope to be there today and see a win. Should be quite a time. Hope it is as loud as San Fran was last night.

Posted by: BmoreRev | April 28, 2007 2:34 PM

Rob P brought up Milicic as a potential FA 5. That's a really interesting situation this off season. As of now he will be a restricted FA. But in order to go after some of the bigger fish that are out there Orlando may have to renounce his rights to stay below the luxury tax.
Orlando also has the Howard resigning to look at next year, so even though they have alot of cap space right now because of the Grant Hill's expiring contract they have to eye every move with the luxury cap in mind.
Orlando could easily match any reasonable offer we'd make since they have more cap space then we do. But that could all change if they'd decide to bid for Carter, Billups or any of top FA.
He has some assests that could translate into playing 5 in the Princeton. With all of the quick atheletic 4's in the league Milicic has had trouble defending there. And right now he isn't strong enough to play the 5. But he's really young, and could add strength and bulk to grow into a 5. To me he could develop into Divac kind of center down the line, but he's not a finished product now.
I can't make it to today's game, still waiting for some pre-surgical testing on my back, but Essex is right. I hope the fans scream their lungs out for the guys today. They have really played hard and deserve our support. Go Wiz!

Posted by: GM | April 28, 2007 5:17 PM

Essex,

Tell me how you feel after Les BouleS get blown out at the phone booth this afternoon. Let me know if you stay past the 3rd quarter.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 28, 2007 6:16 PM

is jarvis afraid to drive to the basket???

Posted by: hmmmmm | April 28, 2007 7:45 PM

That look on Caron Butler's face that ComCast showed in the final 10 seconds said it all. Yet another painful defeat and another terrible job DeShawn Stevenson. And another backbreaker 3-pointer from a corner. This time its Sasha @#$()#$)@#$ Pavlovic. I don't want to see the Wizards get swept, but I want the misery to end soon. This sucks.

Posted by: George Templeton | April 28, 2007 8:17 PM

Again, Jamison and Daniels played like pros.

Haywood played 10 minutes tonight with no points and no rebounds. Wasn't he supposed to be the best defender against IZ, who had an offensive rebound bonanza during those 10 minutes? IZ had one layup with Haywood at least 10 feet away not guarding anyone at all.

If we're going to "play small," then why not bring in Blatche, who at least plays with energy? What do we have to lose, except a series already 0-3?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2007 8:39 PM

Well, another loss but they played their butts off. And coulda, shoulda, woulda continues. We would have sealed this series with Gil and Caron - or at least with one of them. That's why it sucks so much.

Wonder what Miami's excuse is.....

Posted by: Lisa | April 28, 2007 8:41 PM

No complaints this game. EJ called a good game. He left the "hot" people in as he should had. Haywood did not take advantage of his minutes, so no reason to play him in the second half. I agree with that. He just cost himself any minutes for the next game. I can't back him this time. He didn't bring it.

I thought Etan had a lot of energy. He looked pretty good. Wizards just don't have the fire power. Jamison and AD were excellent. EG has his work cut out for him this offseason.

As much as I have negative things to say about Eddie's rotations, he called a real good game. Got to give credit where credit is due.

Posted by: mikie | April 28, 2007 8:58 PM

"We would have sealed this series with Gil and Caron - or at least with one of them. That's why it sucks so much.

Wonder what Miami's excuse is.....

Posted by: Lisa | April 28, 2007 08:41 PM "

Wishful thinking.... What happened last year?

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 28, 2007 9:09 PM

EJ lost the game in the first half when he replaced Etan with Brenda, causing the Wizards to go from a 2-point deficit to a 10-point deficit. Then, instead of correcting his mistake by putting Etan back in EJ made another stupid mistake by putting in Ruffin and the deficit grew even more in the first half.

The players valiantly tried to win in the second half, but after wiping out the huge deficit they ran out of gas. That is EJ's fault. Fire EJ and trade Brenda.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2007 9:12 PM

Watching the game, the analysts reported that Lebron & Co. were barely breaking a serious sweat with Les BouleS. They're just plain bored with the series and are coasting. Coasting just enough so that they can steal a win at the end. People, don't get too overhyped with the output or lack thereof, because you won't see most of these guys here next year, not to mention these playoffs were over before they started for Les BouleS. Believe or don't believe it.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 28, 2007 9:22 PM

DC Dude, as I have asked a MILLION times, if you don't like the Wiz, why, why, why do you live on this blog?

And how the hell do you know who will be here next year? Answer: you do not.

Posted by: Lisa | April 28, 2007 9:42 PM

the truth - the wiz are playing hard and the only exception was the last 6-8 minutes of Q2 today...by the way, Haywood is awful...and like most teams the cavs are very vulnerable when teams dribble drive and get breakdowns, which this current Wiz cant or wont do...with Butler and Compiler Zero (41% shooter) in these games, hey they may win a couple..but maybe not because as a team THEY DONT PLAY DEFENSE...Jamison is a fine O threat but his defense is a joke, an absolute joke....They need Butler more than Gilly Zero in these games because he brings toughness, playoff type intensity. He is the "keeper" of all the 'Zards players..

Posted by: DC in Cleveland | April 28, 2007 10:22 PM

Why do you keep referring to me as DC Dude. Since you're supposed to be so mature, you'd think you wouldn't resort to any ridiculous name calling. Also, you didn't like it when I called you names, so correct yourself and stop the BS unless you want me to drop some names on you.

Getting back to the topic at hand. It does not matter if I like Les BouleS or not. The bottom line is I'm into reality, not fantasy, and if YOU yourself thought this team, with or without Gilby and Caron, given how they ended the season, had any hopes of doing anything in the playoffs, then you're still relishing in a 1st half of the season pipedream. Either that, or you deserve the pain in your heart that you are suffering through during these playoffs.

PS. And how the hell do you know who won't be here next year? Answer: you do not.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 28, 2007 11:30 PM

DCMan88,
I stayed until LeTravel found Pavlovic in the corner to seal the deal with about 30 seconds left in the fourth quarter, then I watched Mason miss a three and Songaila get his tip in blocked so I left, cursing at how AVERAGE these Cavs are and how we could have won the game. Tough loss but dangit, the Wizards fans came out and cheered for our boys. If we could have taken the lead just ONCE, the roof would have come off the Phone Booth.

Some general observations: (1) We played HARD out there tonight, everyone gave maximum effort (even BTH despite his multiple brain farts); (2) Antawn is damn good, once upon a time he used to be a first option (he WAS the Naismith player of the year at Carolina) and he showed tonight that he can still bring it. It will be interesting to see whether his role changes next season;(3) I just realized that I HATE LeTravel. The way he lowers his shoulder everytime he drives, the way he taunts the crowd after every little thing he does, the way he complains, just everything, all the way down to his stupid shoes. He is the perfect heel really. Easy to jeer; (4) We need a legit shooting guard; [begrudgingly] (5) I can't believe I'm typing this but Blatche needs to play more. [There! I said it! Y'all happy now?]; and (6) If we have Gil and Tough Juice, we drop 120 on the Cavs and run them out of the building! Ultimately, what is so frustrating is that Cleveland is AVERAGE and beatable--just not by these Wizards as presently constituted. The Cavs are the least impressive 2 seed I've ever seen...

Posted by: Essex | April 28, 2007 11:35 PM

Everyone is saying this, and I tend to agree, is that the Cavs are coasting. They're pretty much bored by Les BouleS after torching them the first game. They know without Caron and Gilby, this team has no chance at the end, so they'll hang around until the end to turn it on. For Les BouleS fans, it's truly a false sense of security that they made it close. With Larry running the point, and their change in offensive scheme, it makes them more dangerous.

LeBron gets those calls b/c he's a been
anointed the "superstar." They get all the calls. When MJ pushed Bryon Russell away, did you think the refs were going to call that? What about when Shaq treated Dikembe like the scarecrow in the finals? If you hate him so much, then let's just hope they play a tough team the next series and someone chokes slam him and see what he does.

The most important position we need to fill next season is a 4 who can score and defend. Things should fall into place after that, assuming Gilby will give him some touches. Also, hopefully AJ will garner some interest this offseason due to his scoring ability.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 28, 2007 11:52 PM

DC woMan88/Clewsiton88/ClueLessOne,

Watching the Miami in its series, I and the whole viewing audience noticed that your beloved Heat are about to get swept 4-0. AND, that most of old fat slow nonathletic Heat players (meaning most of the team) won't be back next year. OWNED.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 28, 2007 11:55 PM

F#ck your mother. I hate the goddamn HEAT.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 28, 2007 11:57 PM

I would't spend too much energy projecting what happened in these games to what could have been if Caron and Gilbert played. It was quite obvios from opening tip of game one that the Cavs (and esp. LeBron) were coasting, secure in the knowledge they could turn it one when needed. They were just rying to conserve as much energy as possible while getting the wins (and maybe lull their next opponent into a false sense of securing based on their "struggling" against the Wiz).

"EJ lost the game in the first half when he replaced Etan with Brenda"

"Haywood did not take advantage of his minutes, so no reason to play him in the second half.

How quickly they turn.

And there's basically no chance the Wiz get Milicic. (A) The Magic will resign him (B) He's restricted, so they can match any offer (C) Even if they don't do A or B, it's pretty likely someone will offer him more than the MLE or come up with more in a S&T deal than the Wiz have to offer.


Posted by: kalorama | April 28, 2007 11:57 PM

Hey Ivan, DC Man88 needs to be banned. He's violating the board rules with his foul mouth.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2007 12:04 AM

F#ck you, stupid crybaby c%nt.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 29, 2007 12:05 AM

And I know who you are now, dumb@ss Lisa. You're the only dumbsh!t on this blog that keeps harping on me about being Clewiston this and that and blogging on the skins webpage about this in that when in fact I have not done any of that dumb sh!t. Brainless b!otch.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 29, 2007 12:12 AM

After each Miami Heat and Toronto Craptors loss, DC woMan/Clewiston88/ClueLessOne and Phat_Freeda comfort each other:

http://us.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0477051/Ss/0477051/Norbit.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0477051

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2007 12:14 AM

Didn't look at the link, but

Fat Freda = Your dirty momm@

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 29, 2007 12:17 AM

It's not Lisa posting about you, DC woMan88/Clewiston88/ClueLessOne:

After each Miami Heat and Toronto Craptors loss, DC woMan88/Clewiston88/ClueLessOne and Phat_Freeda comfort each other:

http://us.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0477051/Ss/0477051/Norbit.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0477051

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2007 12:17 AM

"Didn't look at the link, but

Fat Freda = DC woMan88's momm@"

You looked at the link and so did everyone else and we'll all laugh at your pathetic existence:

http://us.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0477051/Ss/0477051/Norbit.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0477051

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2007 12:21 AM

Classic case of a stupid dumb sh!t.

You cry that "I'm violating some rules," but then you post worthless pictures that you link to me. Doesn't matter. I've never clicked on any of your links.

Don't take out your misguided frustrations on me, go blame your sorry Les BouleS.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

PS. Lisa is still a dumbsh!t.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 29, 2007 12:21 AM

If I'm pathetic, at least I have the b@lls to write my name down and stand by my comments, not like a silly piece of p@ssy like you.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 29, 2007 12:23 AM

DC woMan88 is just having a tantrum because he's having a problem dealing with his "masculinity/gender/orientation," if you know what I mean. Then if you consider his beloved miami Heat'ds woes, life is really tough for him/her right now.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2007 12:28 AM

DC woMan88/Clewiston88/ClueLessone is silent now because he and Phat_Freeda are comforting each other:

http://us.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0477051/Ss/0477051/Norbit.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0477051

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2007 12:41 AM

Stay anonymous, you piece of p@ssy.

Here's a link of anonymous and their loved one getting it on:

http://us.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0477051/Ss/0477051/Norbit.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0477051

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 29, 2007 12:45 AM

Pathetic anonymous douchebag.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 29, 2007 12:47 AM

Tasty HUH? Since you been drinking from the douche bag pathetic DCman88.

Since when was DCman88 a name?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2007 1:09 AM

OH OH EVERYBODY!!!! HEAR YE, HEAR YE

THE WIZARDS LOST TONIGHT SO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS..BETTER WATCH OUT!!! GET YOUR EYES AND EARS READYOUT ...BEWARE!!!!!!!!

WHEN THAT HAPPENS =
MR. DCMAN88 WON'T TAKE HIS PSYCHO/SOCIAL MEDS!

RUN FOR COVER...HE'LL START SPEWING HIS VULGAR, VENOMOUS GARBAGE AT EVERYBODY ON THIS BLOG CUZ AIN'T NOBODY HOME FOR HIM TO TALK TO. LETS ALL SIGN OFF TIL THE "WAGON OR THE "SHORTBUS" COMES FOR HIM OR HE KNOCKS HIMSELF UNCONSCIOUS.

lets give the brother some space

He used to get like this when they WON - scary huh??

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2007 1:21 AM

MICHAEL LEE AND IVAN CARTER, HELP.

PLEASE BLOCK POSTER DCMAN88 FROM WIZARDS INSIDER BLOG. PLEASE.

WE, AS A GROUP, HAVE TRIED TO EXTEND AS MUCH GRACE, MERCY, PATIENCE, FOREBEARANCE AS POSSIBLE. HE IS NOT INTERESTED IN THE WIZARDS - WHICH IS MORE THAN OBVIOUS.

WE HAVE IGNORED HIM BUT HES VILE, LANGUAGE AND DISGUSTING NAME CALLING NEEDS TO GO.

A letter has to go to Wash Post Mgmt by Mon. am to solidify this request.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2007 1:30 AM

Other than the last half of the 2nd quarter this team played their hearts out and should be commended for their effort today. Another heartbreaker, but an undermanned unit that could have quit at halftime turned it into an exicting game.
When Cleveland stepped up their defensive intensity in the 4th our thin team had nothing left in the tank. Daniels and Jamison really played their hearts out and but ran out of gas after keying the comeback.
You can say Cleveland is cruising and not expending much effort. Could be true, but watching them this year they are the most disjointed 50 win team I've ever seen. Danny Ferry and Coach Brown have assembled a team that is really geared to play like the Championship Spurs teams that Ferry played for. I really think LaBron would prefer to play more like today's Suns or the "Showtime" Lakers, that is a situation that will really bear watching in the next couple of years I can't see the three co-existing longterm.
On the positive side for the Wiz, we've found out that Songalia can flat out play in the Princeton. We've got a solid frontline rotation player there that will only get better as he regains his leg strength after low back surgery. Daniels has reinforced his value to this team, either as point gaurd or as a asset in a trade. Mason has played well enough to be a role player off the bench. Jarvis Hayes has slowly regained his game legs, he may yet still have value to us as a rotation player or as an assest in a sign and trade.
As more and more one and done guys enter this year's draft our number 16 pick should yeild a very talented player for that stage of the draft. With last year's number one OPEC set to come over and Navarro looking like this might be the year that he makes the jump we have some help on the way.
EG has planned his roster with a number of expiring contracts this year to make way for an infusion of new talent. We should be able to resign Blatche and have enough cap flexibility to bring in the three new bodies.
Unfortunitly this draft is not rich in 5's that are going to be around at 16. To find a center EG may have to get explore trade options. But this team has assests and as disappointing as the end of this season has been a bright future.
At least we're not Heat fans, that could drive plum crazy right now!

Posted by: GM | April 29, 2007 2:50 AM

Here's a link of me and my loved one getting it on:

http://us.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0477051/Ss/0477051/Norbit.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0477051

Posted by: DC Man88

That's so funny! You finally looked at the link!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2007 3:24 AM

Pathetic anonymous douchebag.

Didn't look at it, but I assumed you're showing a picture of your moms.

http://us.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0477051/Ss/0477051/Norbit.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0477051

I'm sure it's a pretty picture of her.

You're so pathetic that you must stay anonymous. Too much of a coward to stand by your words.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 29, 2007 10:37 AM

This year's upcoming FA market has the potential to be a buyer's market. With the number of teams that are well over the cap hovering near the luxury tax level there are very few teams that will be able to offer anymore than a mid level exception.
Even teams like New Jersey that could potentially lose Carter won't create enough cap space to offer more than the MLE to another FA. Orlando will get out from under Grant Hill's deal this year, but is in the same situation in order to pay more than the MLE they would have to renounce the rights to Milicic. If they attempt to sign and trade him it's my understanding that they've used up their available cap space.
So saying that anyone outside of the top few players in this market is going to get more than the MLE is a stretch or a real guess as to which team might target a certain player.
Almost everyone would have to create cap space to do so and that isn't easy when there are only a few teams with cap space to Sell. And those teams don't seem to be inclined take on other team's contracts for future draft picks anymore.
Teams are going to be looking at sign and trade deals and players that have reasonable cap numbers for the next few years could be highly valued. Some teams are looking for roster stability rather than guys in the last year of their deal. Discounting the value of some of our players in trades this summer is premature until this market begins to shake out.
Some anylysts say that the FA market is reaching the point of becoming more similar to college recruiting in that the money available is going to be very similar from team to team. In that type market intangiables like style of play, supporting cast etc. will ccome more into play.

Posted by: GM | April 29, 2007 11:19 AM

It would sure be nice if this discussion could go back basketball.

Posted by: GM | April 29, 2007 11:25 AM

Glad to see everything is still harmonious and respectful here :P

I haven't been able to watch the games since I moved (no TV, as it turns out Time Warner is as much of a monopolistic evil empire as Comcrap) but the recaps have been positively heart-breaking.

Feels like Twan is basically burning the last couple good years off his career in a desperate attempt to win a single game. A valiant effort, and I like the fact that the guys aren't giving up, but I really don't understand why Eddie isn't just throwing the kitchen sink at the Cavs.

It's like he knows we're going to lose and is more concerned with sticking to his "plan" than in actually stealing a game, because he doesn't want to look "dumb" by trying something unorthodox (quotes around "dumb" because I think it's pretty unlikely coaches around the league are terribly impressed with our coaching as it stands).

Why has Andray Blatche played a grand total of 4 minutes in the playoffs? For all this talk of "slowing it down" without Gil and Caron, we're getting absolutely CRUSHED on the boards, and Bulletproof is a guy we've seen be so effective playing above the rim! In February, he averaged 6.6 boards in 23 mpg of play!

Posted by: Gack | April 29, 2007 12:00 PM

According to some on this board (and they might be right) the Wizards are hiding Blatche so they don't have to spend too much to keep him this offseason. He should be playing at least 15 minutes a game in this series.

Posted by: George Templeton | April 29, 2007 12:21 PM

DcDude, I am not and have never been the one saying you are CLewiston, so you got that wrong (shocking!) - but I do admit that whoever it is seems to have point.

The reason I refer to you "DC Dude" is because it's so obvious you are not a "MAN." What MAN would continually whine about Gil's party, call fellow bloggers awful names and continually write this: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!?

That sounds like a child to me so I simply cannot address you as "DCMan anything."

Posted by: Lisa | April 29, 2007 2:03 PM

I think you're missing the point on Orlando and Jersey, GM. losing Hill's salary may not give them enough room under the cap to sign a big ticket FA, but what it does give them is a lot of wiggle room under the luxury tax ceiling, which will allow them to match any above MLE offer Milicic gets without worry. And if they should still be over the cap after renouncing Hill, they'll have the MLE to go after a PG (like Steve Blake).

As for NJ, Carter is going to demand (and get) more than the MLE and have final say in his destination, which means that if he wants to go to a team that's not under the cap, Jersey can get some serious assets in a S&T.

"Teams are going to be looking at sign and trade deals and players that have reasonable cap numbers for the next few years could be highly valued."

Even if this is true, it does nothing to help the Wizards, because none of their tradeable assets have reasonable cap numbers. Haywood's salary isn't huge, but relative to what he actually produces on the floor, it's inflated, esp. given the number of years remaining. Daniels would be an attractive option for teams from a talent perspective, but his age and the remaining dollars on his deal are going to give teams pause. And it's not like anyone is going to offer anything great in return. And it remains unlikely that trading Jamison will be an otpion this summer.

Posted by: kalorama | April 29, 2007 2:15 PM

According to some on this board (and they might be right) the Wizards are hiding Blatche so they don't have to spend too much to keep him this offseason. He should be playing at least 15 minutes a game in this series.

Posted by: George Templeton | April 29, 2007 12:21 PM

George - That was me who has been saying they are "stashing" the young fellow. As I said in other posts, I was hoping I was wrong, but it seems like it might be true.

"Haywood did not take advantage of his minutes, so no reason to play him in the second half.

How quickly they turn". Kalorama

Just to note, I am not turning on Haywood with the comments that I posted after the game. As I have been trying to state, I just prefer for Eddie to give all of his options a try before he decides not to play them at all.

If he gives them a chance and they do not produce in 10 to 15 minutes; they do not deserve to play. I was making that point when Haywood got "no" minutes in the first game (Eddie not using all of his options), Haywood was playing his butt off in the second game and got took out in favor of small ball (dude was hot but did not get back in; thus I was saying Eddie was not putting people back in when they were hot).

Third game Eddie gives Haywood a "early" shot and Haywood dropped passes, did not run down the court with hustle and could not hold on to rebounds. My boy was not playing with any "fire" so he deserved to not to get back in the game.

It is not a point of me "turning" on Haywood, I just want whoever is hot out there to be able to stay in the game in the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter, and I also would like to see "all options" used since we are so short-handed (i.e. Blanche and Taylor just to give AD a "little" blow).

AD was totally "out of gas" near the end of the 4th quarter, but Eddie had to do what he had to do. As I said before, Eddie called a real good game this time.

As I said a weeks ago, you will not see Blanche (because of upcoming contract)so no need to ask if he is going to play because he is not. Look forward to "major" minutes for him next year "AFTER HE IS SIGNED TO A REASONALBE LONG TERM CONTRACT"....

**** Stevenson might have to sign for 2.5 or less a year over three years now. That dude has lost "major" money with all of those misses. I still like the dude on the team, though.

Posted by: mikie | April 29, 2007 2:38 PM

DC woMan88/ Clewiston88/ ClueLessOne:

Your beloved Miami Heat just got swept 4-0!

Ah, ha-hahhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Big talk, little man. Whatcha got to say now?

Your boy Wade turns the ball over twice in the last three minutes, seven times in the game. Not good.

Next year, Miami will be even older and fatter and slower. They're not just done now, they're done for years.

But, you and Phat_Freeda will comfort each other again:

http://us.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0477051/Ss/0477051/Norbit.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0477051

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2007 3:42 PM

Mikie, If I was Stevenson's agent I'd have to be thinking long and hard about advising him to not opt out of that deal this summer. When our team was healthy and he was playing a more complimentry role I think he'd greatly increased his value. Forced to carry more of the scoring load he's really looked bad.
I think he is really struggling with the pressure of being in the playoffs(as a player) for the first time and assuming a role that he's not used to at the same time. He may do well to play out this deal and hope the Wiz can stay healthy going into next year's playoffs. And that he has the chance to look as good as he did here in Jan. when he was a valuable starter on the best team in the east.
Kalorama, As I said if Milicic is a restricted FA Orlando can outbid us and maybe any other team because of the amount of cap room they have because of Hill's expiring contract. What they can't do is retain Milicic's rights AND pay more than the MLE to another player. In order to go after Lewis, Billups, or Carter(Who has a home in Orlando)they will have to renounce their rights to Milicic as a restricted FA. I think they could then make him an offer as a restricted FA but would be limited to the MLE which would be the maxium that he'd get most places unless Micheal Jordan falls in love with him.
I placed my post about Milicic in response to Rob P putting his name out there. I don't think it's a situation where anyone can say he'd NEVER be available until Orlando decides if they want to be a player for one of the top FA's.
If they take that route he will be available, what we'd have to decide at that point is if we want to pursue him. I'm not sure that we would because giving him the MLE would cause us to have to make choices in retaining Blatche, signing our Number One, bringing over last year's Number One, and pursuing Navarro. I'm not sure that Milicic would be a better option than any of those 4 players.
As I said Milicic's situation is an interesting one that bears watching this offseason. Especially since we will be in the market for a 5, but I think we'd have to combine a pursuit of him with some other moves to somehow create cap room. But I wouldn't sit here and say it could never happen I'm not EG and have no idea who he might target.
Actually Haywood's deal is very reasonable for even a backup center, Daniels would also have decent cap number for a point gaurd. His record of stepping up in the playoffs could be very attractive to a team looking for a veteran to teach them how to win. And for that matter Gilbert and Butler are very reasonably priced for Allstar players. And with the glut of players in this year's FA group Hayes could be a very reasonably priced rotation player in a sign and trade. At 16 in this draft it looks like we'll get a very good player because of all of the one and done players that have flooded the draft. So I can't agree that we have Nothing to deal with.
I bet that two years ago you were sure we'd never get an allstar player for Kwame Brown after he got sent home during the playoffs. I know I was. I'm glad that EG is the kind of General Manager that researches all of the options and seems to have been planning ahead in building this roster. The only thing I am sure about is that he will be making some more moves this offseason. He's been putting this roster together pc. by pc. since he's been here and has retained cap flexibility along the way. This will be an active offseason.

Posted by: GM | April 29, 2007 4:21 PM

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

I am so happy that the Heat got swept! I also wouldn't be surprised if Les BouleS get swept too, especially since the latter half of their season was in the toilet. All in all, I think Abe better open up his pocket book if he wants Les BouleS to do something next season. This team won't go anywhere past the first round if they stick with the current crew, especially if Gilby is on it.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 29, 2007 4:32 PM

PS. I hope Shaq retires after this season. He's got nothing left in the tank, and even Zo had more going for him than Shaq. Dwade will never be the player he was if he needs to get shoulder surgery.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! HEAT SUCK AND LES BOULES SUCK. EITHER WAY, I COULDN'T CARE LESS. IT'S NBA DRAFT TIME AND FOOTBALL TIME.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 29, 2007 4:36 PM

wow, the southeast division ain't looking too good. unless we do something tomorrow nite, all 3 teams in the playoffs will get swept. has that ever happened before??

jarvis:eddie jordan::brunell:gibbs

(just saying. ;-p)

Posted by: hmmmmm | April 29, 2007 6:19 PM

Wow, the first time I've seen SAT analogy notation used in a Wiz Insider post. And so apropos, too!

So who's our J-Campbell (a.k.a. "The Savior")?

Posted by: Gack | April 29, 2007 6:46 PM

"Mikie, If I was Stevenson's agent I'd have to be thinking long and hard about advising him to not opt out of that deal this summer. When our team was healthy and he was playing a more complimentry role I think he'd greatly increased his value. Forced to carry more of the scoring load he's really looked bad". GM

GM - You might be right, but he will only get around 1.2 or the same $975,000.00 in that last year of the two year contract. He has no choice but to opt out. He can always resign with the Wiz at that same amount.

However, the one ace in the hole Stevenson has is Gilbert's in his corner. Ernie wants to make Gilbert happy until he can look him in on an extension after 2008.

I think Ernie is going to "watch" Stevenson opt out and see what offers he gets and then determine if he will match it or not.

If no one makes an offer, EG can then come in at about 1.5 or 2 million a year for 3 years. That would be a real "cap friendly" contract. However, I think Mason has made a nice contribution; but if Ernie signs Navaro, Mason is gone.

I also see the Wizards maybe resigning Jarvis (due to his playoff performance) and sliding him back to the 2 guard stop. Maybe a 2.5 or 3 million dollar contract for 3 years. If another teams offers him something like 4 or 5 for 3 years I can see Ernie letting Jarvis walk.

Jarvis has played some decent defense and he is starting to look more aggresive. If that happens, I think Stevenson might be gone. Thoughts???

Posted by: mikie | April 29, 2007 7:39 PM

typo's. "lock" and "spot"

Posted by: mikie | April 29, 2007 7:42 PM

I hve been reading on this blog all season from the folks who slammed EJ for not playing Haywood enough. Can there by any more definitive proof that Brendan is a coach's nightmare.....his inconsistency would frustrate any coach. here he is in game 2 bringing it hard, blocking shots and scoring around the basket just as he had played for several weeks earlier in the season.Then Game 3 and his line was unbelievable. How can a 7' player run up and down the floor for 10 minutes without registering his existence. Zeros across the board. The same player has demonstrated his inconsistency for years now and the bottom line is the only thing you can count on with Brendan is you can't count on him. That's a difficult problem for any coach and not easily solved.

Posted by: arnie | April 29, 2007 8:12 PM

That's why I'd advise him to not opt out if I were his agent. At least that he's quarenteed his job here. If he lands in the wrong situation he could find himself out of the league in a couple of years.
If he opts out, he may create a situation where EG with his limited cap room would make a choice to bring Hayes back or use the money saved on Navarro or OPEC instead of resigning Stevenson.

Posted by: GM | April 29, 2007 8:35 PM

Oh dear God, I can't believe we're talking about holding on to Arvis. This to me is the supreme tragedy of losing Gilbert and Caron... not being swept in the first round, but that it created such a pressure-free scoring void that even Arvis could step up and appear to redeem himself.

Posted by: Gack | April 29, 2007 9:57 PM

I agree with everything you said except one thing. It is easily solved: Bye bye Brenda.

I hve been reading on this blog all season from the folks who slammed EJ for not playing Haywood enough. Can there by any more definitive proof that Brendan is a coach's nightmare.....his inconsistency would frustrate any coach. here he is in game 2 bringing it hard, blocking shots and scoring around the basket just as he had played for several weeks earlier in the season.Then Game 3 and his line was unbelievable. How can a 7' player run up and down the floor for 10 minutes without registering his existence. Zeros across the board. The same player has demonstrated his inconsistency for years now and the bottom line is the only thing you can count on with Brendan is you can't count on him. That's a difficult problem for any coach and not easily solved.

Posted by: arnie

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2007 9:58 PM

Get rid of Arvis "No J" Hayes. We'll draft a 3.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 29, 2007 10:03 PM

"What they can't do is retain Milicic's rights AND pay more than the MLE to another player. In order to go after Lewis, Billups, or Carter(Who has a home in Orlando)they will have to renounce their rights to Milicic as a restricted FA."

Not if they arrange a S&T. And, assuming any of those players decide they want to go to Orlando (which is highly unlikely in and of itself), a S&T is the most likely route, because it's pretty much a given that none of their current teams want to lose those players and get nothing in return. The basic reality is that most of the teams those players might be interested in going to can only get them in a S&T, because most teams will be over the cap.

Haywood's deal is reasonable for a reliable, productive backup C. But there's little evidence to suggest Haywood is such a thing. Danial's deal might be reasonable if he wasn't 32 years old. But given his age, the amount of money left on his deal is not going to be terribly attractive for most teams. He's at a stage where the only teams likely willing to spend that kind of money on a backup PG are contenders with A-list starters who need help off the bench to keep the starters minutes down. The Spurs, Pistons, and Suns are examples. Problem is, none of those teams have anything they'd be willing to part with that would do the Wizards much good (or more good than keeping Daniels would do them).

Posted by: kalorama | April 29, 2007 10:16 PM

Ernie Grunfeld is too good a GM to be fooled by Arvis and his good games because they usually were followed by bad ones. I don't know if the Lakers would make this guy available, but what do the folks on this blog think of Lamar Odom. With his ball handling ability, he might be a good fit for Jordan's offense.

Posted by: George Templeton | April 30, 2007 12:34 AM

Why in God's name would the Lakers trade their second best/second most important player for anything the Wizards have to offer?

Posted by: kalorama | April 30, 2007 12:46 AM

I don't know, why would they trade Caron Butler? There have always been noises about Odom not meshing with Kobe, who knows maybe Kobe will want him gone. I was just throwing it out there.

Posted by: George Templeton | April 30, 2007 1:05 AM

They traded Caron Butler because, after Shaq was gone, they needed a big man. And whatever noise there was about Odom and Kobe not meshing is log since quieted down. And even if they were thinking about trading him, the Wizards have nothing they'd want for him.

Posted by: kalorama | April 30, 2007 1:09 AM

Not even the cap room that Jamison's expiring contract would give them for the summer of 2008?

Posted by: George Templeton | April 30, 2007 1:17 AM

Nope. You don't trade players as productive and important to a team as Odom for cap space unless you're rebuilding or you think they're expendable because you know there's a better one on the horizon. Neither applies to the Lakers.

Trading Odom for Jamison would make the Lakers a much worse team next season, which is not the direction they want to go, considering that Kobe is desperate to win a title and has an opt out clause the following summer. Any move they make over the summer will be for the purposes of convincing Kobe they're moving closer to a title, not further away.

Posted by: kalorama | April 30, 2007 1:29 AM

Oh well it was a thought. So how bout it kalorama, what direction should the Wizards go in?

Posted by: George Templeton | April 30, 2007 1:36 AM

Oh well it was a thought. So how bout it kalorama, what direction should the Wizards go in?

Posted by: George Templeton | April 30, 2007 01:36 AM

we're already going ALL in

(sorry, it's late. i got nothing... ;p)

Posted by: hmmmmm | April 30, 2007 1:55 AM

Kevin Garnett will be playing for the Lakers next season so their roster may change dramatically.

Posted by: Lisa | April 30, 2007 7:35 AM

What Kalorama ignored in his response to George was Lisa's point. Minnesota claims they have no interest in trading Garnett. But if they change their mind or Kevin does it for them LA is an obvious choice. The Lakers then would be looking for a third or even 4th team to involve to accumulate the pcs. needed to take on Garnett's 23m salary.
So many of the trades today involve muliple teams because of the need to match up salaries and fill slots since everyone is so far over the NBA's Swiss Cheese like regular salary cap. Since the Luxury Tax has been in place teams are veiwing that as more of a "Hard Cap" like the NFL's cap. It will create a situation where more vets are playing for the minimium contract.
The full effect of that Luxury Tax Cap
will be felt in this summer's FA period even more than last. I really think there will be some vets that have trouble finding offers for much more than the min. if they are viewed as a 9 to 15 guy by the team that is signing them.
And Kalorama the advent of the luxury Tax will also bring about a situation where teams that look at their other players that they have to resign in coming years and they will be more willing to let a guy walk instead of taking back players in a sign in trade that may end up being a burden against the luxury tax in two to three years.
That's why some players that have a reasonable cap number in coming years maybe worth more than otherwise thought. As teams are looking to control their spending and manage this new cap out two to three years. Teams used the one time exception to get under the luxury tax the first year, but that option is gone now.
Anyone that can solidly predict what will and won't happen this off-season really should be making big money in someone's front office.

Posted by: GM | April 30, 2007 8:28 AM

Chicago is more likely to land KG given their abundance of youth and their lottery pick this year, if they want KG. A package of Nocioni, Tyrus Thomas, Ben Wallace, and the lottery pick should do it. Bynum is young, but not well rounded enough, and Odom is too old and can't carry a team. If Chicago gets a top 3 pick, they should keep it and not bother with any trades.

Imagine this, Chicago was Les BouleS biggest rival last season, and up until this season. Oh has Chicago passed Les BouleS by. They play like a very fluid team too, and Skiles has instilled a sense of urgency and a no nonsense approach to them team. He's got management backing, unlike EJ who's bends like paper whenever one of his players decides to act up. EJ has the voice of a guy who's thrown up his arms and won't bother dealing with Gilbertology by saying "it's management's decision."

The funny thing is Dishonest Abe had a talk with the team just as the downward spiral was beginning, right around the time of the most recent fight between Etan and BTH. A lot of good that talk did. Les BouleS will continue to flouder unless management gets a backbone and makes the team respect the coach and have no superstar double standards. Management is walking on eggshells because they're too afraid to back the coach and alienate the players.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 30, 2007 10:01 AM

"This series, we played as a team," Deng said. "We played together and we always played the same way. No matter what they did, we never really changed what we did. It was good for us to come out and show our maturity as a team."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&id=2853360

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 30, 2007 10:08 AM

"Minnesota claims they have no interest in trading Garnett. But if they change their mind or Kevin does it for them LA is an obvious choice."

Much as it pains me to agree with DC Man88 on anything, he's right aboiut Chicago being a much much more likely spot for KG than LA. The Lakers don't have nearly as much to offer in return for such a deal.

"That's why some players that have a reasonable cap number in coming years maybe worth more than otherwise thought. As teams are looking to control their spending and manage this new cap out two to three years."

But that argument seems to presuppose that managing the cap is an end onto itself. It isn't. Teams have to manage the cap while also improving their team on the court. Taking on a player with a "reasonable cap number" doesn't help much if that player is still overpaid for what he produces on court. Which is why no one is going to be offerint the Wizards anything of high value just to get their hands on the Wizards' castoffs.

Posted by: kalorama | April 30, 2007 10:20 AM

Question will soon become "What can a 30 year old KG bring to the table? Does he have anything left in the tank?" He's an old 30 year old, as he started his career straight from high school.

Minnesota had better stop f'ing around and get rid of KG before he becomes a huge 23 million dollar liability that no one wants, and then he'll just leave when his contract is up.

Maybe Minnesota should trade KG to Memphis for Gasol and Mike Miller. KG would play with Rudy Gay there, and memphis has the most ping pong balls. Plus, he'd be closer to his hometown of SC.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 30, 2007 10:36 AM

Gee Kalorama, in your quest to disagree with everything that I post you backed yourself into agreeing with DCman88. Wow!
On the surface Chicago looks like a possible Garnett destination, but the big question there would be, is their ownership in any way inclined to exceed the luxury tax in the coming years? They have a group of players that they are going to have to sign in coming years plus Wallace's deal. They wouldn't offer any of their core players in a deal for Gasol. Would they for Garnett who is 4 years older and makes almost double the money?
I won't say never, that's your catch phrase. But when you look at their core and what they will need to sign them over the coming years, they won't do it unless they have the go ahead from ownership to spend what it takes to win a title. That has never been Reinsdorf's style.
Minnesota is stuck in a bad place with Garnett's salary which is over 1/3 of the luxury tax level in it's self. Everybody is struggling to get below the luxury tax and you can't put together a winner with an anchor like that on your payroll. The logical teams for him to end up on would be LA, the Knicks, or Dallas. And I don't know that even with possible 3 way deals any of them could put together a Garnett deal that could help the T-Wolves.
The reason that a team would take reasonably priced vets to fill roles on a team to manage the cap and improve would be if they had decided to rebuild around a group of draft picks who would all be playing under their rookie deals the next 3 to 4 years. For instance if Memphis would decide to trade Gasol and get a couple of first rounders for him to go along with Gay and their pick this year(possible 1st selection). They would have to take players to match Gasol's salary. You might think that they would want someone in the last year of their deal so they could go out in sign a FA player of their choice next year. But if they have Gay and then two number ones this year and two number ones next year their money may be better spent down the line signing those five players all to long term deals to retain their young core. If they reinvest Gasol's money in a FA they may not be able to hold onto everybody when those rookie deals expire.
If you look at it that way having Vets that are signed for the next few years would help them manage the cap while their young core grows up together. They could put theirselves in position to rebuild and manage the luxury tax cap which most teams are treating as a hard cap.
NBA General Managers are all having to adjust their thinking. Successful teams will be looking two and three years out in their cap planning more like New England does in the NFL.
But I'm still waiting for you to answer George's question, what moves would you make? And I promise, I won't say never in response.

Posted by: GM | April 30, 2007 12:29 PM

Posted by: Joe | April 30, 2007 12:41 PM

The article about Eddie saying he's playing the guys he trusts, the veterans who are more steady and used to the pressure situations etc.

Didn't Blatche play well during the season when Jamison got hurt, and Blatche was put into the starting lineup? I thought he played well. I don't understand what he did to earn Eddie's distrust? Isn't that some pressure for a young kid, to be put in the starting lineup and asked to replace a former allstar and one of our "big 3" in Jamison? I thought he did great in that situation. So what is Eddie talking about?! Also, how is the kid going to get experienced in playoff situations if you don't let him?

It's amazing to me watching the playoffs how good the Bulls have become, and how they have surpassed us. 2 years ago the Wizards, Bulls and Cavs where the 3 up and coming teams in the east and the Wizards were the best of the 3, and we have been left behind. The Bulls roster is absolutely stacked, they had a high pick and got Tyrus Thomas, and they where still able to sign the top FA last offseason Ben Wallace.

The Cavs took Hughes from us. They already had one of the biggest superstars in the game LeBron James, and were still able to outbid us and take Hughes by offering him a rediculous megacontract. And fill out their roster nicely with guys like Gooden, Marshall, Ilgauskas, Snow, Varajao etc.

And the Wizards just seem like we're moving backwards. We have no cap room, no high draft picks, no ability to get a top FA. You look at the Heat and all their high-priced guys. Why does it seem like we have less money available then the rest of the teams? We all have the same salary cap. Is it management? It just seems like every offseason, we're not able to do anything big and have to flexability. Jamison's contract is really killing us for one thing. If we didn't have his massive contract taking so much room, we probably would have kept Hughes, and maybe even made a move for Big Ben. Jamison's contract is just unbelievable, it has created our inability to improve and cause us to regress. And it ultimately could cause us to lose Gil next offseason because of it.

Posted by: Darnell | April 30, 2007 12:56 PM

Joey, that article really applies to you.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 30, 2007 1:00 PM

If the Bulls were going to get KG, wasn't this past trade deadline the time to do it. And don't you think Minnesota will ask for Deng to be part of any deal for KG. That's a dealbreaker for the Bulls (and I agree, I wouldn't part with Deng either). The Timberwolves know they better move him soon and that might help us. We do have at least one tradeable asset (Cap room for 2008 with Jamison's contract) and maybe a second (Haywood).
Grunfeld is someone worth having faith in that he can take these things and turn it into something that can move this team forward.

Posted by: George Templeton | April 30, 2007 1:28 PM

Big on the gloom and doom, huh, Darnell?

Jamison's contract hasn't killed the Wizards. If not for Jamison's addition, this team would probably be even more dysfucntional. If the Wizards were healthy they'd have had a good chance to beat the Cavs (although hardly a sure thing) and the Bulls, despite their many deficiencies. They were undone by injuries, pure and simple.

That's not to say there aren't plenty of areas of improvement, but it's not like Chicago or Cleveland are fully formed contenders yet, because they aren't.

The Wizards weren't going to keep Hughes because Grunfeld felt (correctly) that he wasn't worth the money he was being offered by the Cavs. And if they had kept Hughes they likely wouldn't have gone after Butler, who's an improvement over Hughes in every respect. (And the reason they were able to offer Hughes that kind of money is because LeBron is still playing on a rookie deal. Let's see how smart a move the Hughes signing was when LeBron comes up for an extension and the Cavs' cap is smashing through the luxury tax ceiling.)

Up to now the Wiz organization has been patient and taken time to see what they've got what is mostly a young team. Now that the answer appears to be "not much" outside of Jamison, Arenas, Butler, Blatche, Daniels, and Songaila, the time for change is at hand. Too often in the past this team has made splashy panic moves that didn't pay off. I think they deserve some credit for for actually giving the team a chance to develop and having some success (which, despite all the carping around here, they've had a considerable amount of in the past 3 years) rather than trying to make up for all the past missteps in one fell swoop.

Posted by: kalorama | April 30, 2007 1:42 PM

It was smart of the Bulls not to make that trade midseason and ruin their chemistry. Look how far they've gotten so far. If they choose to make this offseason acquisition, then they have time to work KG into the scheme, and most importantly, they have more leverage against Minn. Plus, they can see where they will be picking in the lottery and not have given up the pick that could end up being a top 3 pick.

I wouldn't say chicago is a serious threat to win the championship this season, but if they can build on the team this offseason, they will be a serious threat next season, and possibly the favorite in the East.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 30, 2007 1:45 PM

George,

I'm all for optimism, but any notion that the Wizards have anything the TWolves would want in exchange for KG (other than Arenas and Butler) is a pipe dream. That includes the cap space from Jamison, because without KG on board, no meaningful FA is going to want to play in Minnesota. They were mediocre and had trouble attracting FAs with Garnett. Without him, they'll be among the worst teams in the league. No real marquue, difference making FA will want to go there, which means the cap space won't do them much good.

I have no doubt that Grunfeld is capable of making posititive moves this summer. But trading for Garnett or Gasol is not on the list.

Posted by: kalorama | April 30, 2007 1:48 PM

As good or as overrated as some say Hughes is, his Cavs team has advanced (and will this season) to the 2nd round of the playoffs each season he's been with them, despite his injuries, his brother's death, and Mike Brown with his slow ball schemes. Things have changed for them since LH has moved to the PG position and the speed of their game has increased.

What do Les BouleS have to show for the post Larry seasons? Last season, they couldn't make it to the second round of the playoffs with Gilby, AJ, and Caron, as Gilby choked on the free throw line against the Cavs. This season, the team went into a death spiral a few games before All Star Coming out weekend.

It's interesting to note that the only time Les BouleS have advanced to the second round recently is when Larry was on the team, and he basically carried Les BouleS against the Bulls. Gilby hasn't taken this team past the first round without Larry.

Therefore, all the tangibles and intangibles that people mention about Larry doesn't mean anything if the Cavs continue to win, and their next opponent could be either Jersey or Toronto, of which the Cavs would probably be favored. Larry was smart to take more money and play with a "superstar" rather than stay here and be cursed with superstar wannabes with warped priorities.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 30, 2007 2:10 PM

Kalorama, I ain't talking about KG coming here. I am talking about GM's scenario of someone coming here in a three or four-team deal where KG ends up with the L.A. Lakers.

As for your assertion DCMan that Larry Hughes basically carried the Wizards past the Bulls. Here are the scoring numbers in this series: Arenas 138 points (23.0 ppg), Hughes 135 (22.5 ppg). And then there is the little matter of that game-winning shot Gilbert made in Game 5 of that series. I hate to let the facts ruin your good story DCMan. Can we just say that no one carried the team to victory (remember Dixon's performance in Game 4, Etan and Ruffin's performance in Game 3?).

Posted by: George Templeton | April 30, 2007 5:02 PM

George,

You're way too fixated in points scored, just like Gilby. Unfortunately, Gilby didn't play no stinkin' defense, nor did he pass the ball, so the dead heat in points scored clearly means Larry pretty much carried the team, and Gilby hasn't sniffed second round since Larry left.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 30, 2007 9:48 PM

Interesting how you not only brush off Gilbert's game-winner, you do the same to Dixon, Thomas, Ruffin et al.

Posted by: George Templeton | April 30, 2007 9:50 PM

George, if Gilby had a game winner good for him, but Les BouleS wouldn't even have been in contention for a game winner without Larry Hughes. Once again, Larry is in the 2nd round and Gilby hasn't made it since, or ever.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 30, 2007 10:05 PM

Kalorama, I'mm not sayin I don't want Jamison on our team. I'm just sayin his contract is huge, if he had a normal contract in line with what he is as a player we'd be set. But the dude makes money like friggin Kobe or DWade land. He makes way more than Gil. If he made Caron Butler money for example, we couldv'e kept Hughes. And everyone compares Butler to Hughes and say we didn't lose on that. But we lost Larry for NOTHING, we didn't get Caron for him, and we lost him to a rival the Cavs who have knocked us out of the playoffs the past 2 years. We got Caron for Kwame, and we still would've made that deal.

If we kept Larry, then deal Kwame for Caron, then we got something special here. And Larry maybe doesn't break his hand either. Our old backcourt of Gil and Larry, with our current front court of Antawn and Caron. That's a big 4! That's a team that's got some serious SWAG! What couldv'e been we'll never know.

Posted by: Darnell | April 30, 2007 11:28 PM

Dude, you can blame Dishonest Abe Pollin for that. They said all along that they would do everything they can to keep Larry, as he was probably the MVP of the team and was almost leading the league in steals. Come crunch time, Dishonest Abe didn't pony up the monies, so Larry walked and Les BouleS were left with their pants down. Not the first time it's happened, and surely, surely, not the last, if this ownership structure remains intact.

Posted by: DC Man88 | April 30, 2007 11:41 PM

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