Moving on

The thing about being an NBA beat writer is that you always end up writing about things you'd rather not. For instance, right now I'm watching NBA TV's broadcast of the 94 Sonics/Nuggets Game 5 when Dikembe, Robert Pac, Reggie Williams and the Nuggets pulled off one of the best upsets of all time. That's what I love about this job.

Basketball.

I'd like write about those kinds of things more often. Instead, a player I cover gets arrested and I have to write about it. Whether guilty or innocent, it takes up time that would be better spent talking about basketball. I have no personal issue with Andray Blatche. In fact, I like the kid - know him well and have even played basketball with his boys.
That said, when something goes down, I have to do my job and I'll keep doing it. As for those folks on this blog that want to make threats, I have this message: I'm not scared of you and never will be. I have a job to do and I'll continue doing it.

The Wizards have a good thing going right now. Gilbert is coming back. Caron is determined to be an all star again. Antawn Jamison is resting up this summer and getting ready to build on one of the best playoff performances we've ever seen. Pesh is starving to show that he's legit. Darius Songaila is ballin' out for Lithunania this summer and should be an even better player than we all saw late last season. The rookies: N Young and D McGuire will bring much needed athleticism to that bench.

My point: there are so many positive things to talk about with this franchise right now, why focus on one young kid's bad decison?

By Ivan Carter |  August 7, 2007; 2:18 AM ET
Previous: Blatche update | Next: Navarro update

Comments

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amen

Posted by: Wit | August 7, 2007 3:18 AM

Second. (That is, I second the post; not "I'm the second post.")

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 4:06 AM

In complete agreement, the past few seasons have been positive steps for the wizards. I'm looking forward to another season as this franchise continues to improve. Most of the folks here really do appreciate you guys. Thanks for your hard work.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 4:10 AM

Dude what are you doing writing a blog at 2:18 AM??

Yeah the Blatche situation is a drag. Lot's of positives. I thought Stevenson was better than Jeffries, and we just locked him up for less than JJ would have cost. We had an excellent draft getting Young and McGuire, two guys our front office seemed sure would be gone. Our entire team is motivated after a disapointing end of season. Pesh is working his tail off. We will go into the season with a bench featuring Pesh, Songaila, McGuire and Young, non of whom were with us at the start of last season.

The only real question as far as I can see is Haywood. What is his mindset? I thought he said he wanted out unless there was a coaching change. Is he on board and motivated to contribute to this team? Is he ready to play up to his potential? I'd really like to see an interview done with him if that's possible Ivan.

But I am definately optimistic about this season! We have our entire starting 5 returning. A bench featuring big men Etan, Blatche, Songaila, Pecherov, with Young, McGuire and Daniels.

Posted by: Darnell | August 7, 2007 4:31 AM

Keep up the good work!! I read your column everyday and the coverage on blatche is very good.

Any news on the haywood, thomas situation? I'm actually looking forward to seeing our bench, something I would not have said in the past. They still need a shooter coming off the bench though.

Also, what happening with the official who was gambling on games? Whats going on with the investigation?

Posted by: hoopsjunkie | August 7, 2007 4:45 AM

You the man Ivan.

Posted by: Mike | August 7, 2007 4:53 AM

great post ivan!!! looking forward to the next

Posted by: filipinowizdude | August 7, 2007 5:13 AM

Ivan,

Chill! For the umpteenth time, we love you, man. Don't let the thirteen-year-old posters get under your skin. I sincerely hope they're not making you lose sleep (2:18 AM?)

Posted by: reispace | August 7, 2007 6:13 AM

Threats? For real? I guess everyone's a thug behind their keyboard. I know it's hard not to take a lot of that nonsense personally, but try to ignore it. You do a great job, and I wouldn't know where else to go for better Wiz related scoop.

Posted by: AndNone | August 7, 2007 6:33 AM

hey ivan that was a good report but when people on this blog send you threats and things just do not even comment on it. if they want to act little let them act little just do not worry about them things and write. i would hate to see you get mad over little kids that are dum. so just come down man everthing is going to be ok.

good job so far

Posted by: brandon | August 7, 2007 7:14 AM

Re: Ivan's 2AM post

Ever thought that he might be out West, or like me he might have a touch of insomnia?
Sometimes writers get in idea for a blog at 2AM. Love it!

Posted by: Wizzy | August 7, 2007 7:22 AM

Here here.

B-ball baby, can't wait!

Posted by: Patrick | August 7, 2007 7:23 AM

Ivan,

Forget about the crabs that want to pull you down to their level! I can't beleive some people want to threaten you for doing your job? I think you do a great job and I look daily for new postings from you. Keep up the good work!!!

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 7:25 AM

Hey, don't let any of the dumbasses make fake threats at you. They're just mad because they're not doing the stuff you're doing every day. Getting up, visiting different places, watching Wizards games live from courtside, interviewing players, etc.


BTW, thanks for answering my question on Washington post live and check out my summer league article on the Wizards when you get the chance. http://www.justbball.com/blog/2007/07/20/wizards-summer-league-wrap-up/

Posted by: Will from Rockville | August 7, 2007 7:29 AM

I like the blog more now.. it has a feel where you're hearing from a person, not just reading a "report"

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 7:31 AM

Ivan,

There's a report out of Minnesota that Navarro's pick is as follows:

" - '08 if the Grizzlies select 20 or further down, it goes to the Wizards (top 19 protected)
- '09 if the Grizzlies select 17 or futher down, it goes to the Wizards (top 16 protected)
- '10- '12 the Grizzlies pick is lottery protected
- '13 - the pick is top 12 protected and if it has not been given, cash considerations will be given to the Wizards."

Any truth to that?

Posted by: sfam | August 7, 2007 7:32 AM

Ivan, you are great - keep up the good work and don't let the jerks get to you!

Posted by: Lisa | August 7, 2007 7:33 AM

Threats on a sports blog? I don't think you should even dignify stuff like that with a reply. Most of us don't read through all the comments to your posts. We just come here to read your thoughts. The only time I know about threats is when you respond to them. Just ignore webthugs and they'll go away.

Posted by: Bart | August 7, 2007 8:03 AM

sfam if that is true. I dont like the trade nearly as much and hopefully we trade that pick. Also the only reason we are talking about blatche is because its the only thing in the news. Most people on the site including me love him and want him back. Thats just whats in the news.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 8:06 AM

Ivan, love the blog and your reporting. And guys, don't shoot the messenger. Sometimes there is nothing to report, and sometimes there's this Payton Place stuff.
Some of us come on here because we just love to talk about Basketball and the Wizards. I started being a fan back in the Baltimore Bullets days and grew up with this team through good and bad.
What we have going now is really good, no we won't be the favorite in the East, I like it that way. Arenas plays better with a chip on his shoulder and we have a hungry young team around him. We've got a smart GM that is filling out our bench with some talented young players, not a bunch of retreads. And Eddie Jordan is a young, creative coach(still learning to be a Head Coach).
Ivan the one big question that I have is, there has been very little reporting about Randy Ayers hiring. Is he at Verizon working with players in the off season? How much input and leeway is he going to have defensively? Is he going to be considered an Assistant Head Coach for the Defense?
Ayers has a good track record as a defensive coach, worked with Larry Brown in Philly and improved them defensively. If the guy can improve a team defensively with Allen Iverson logging heavy minutes, that says something. I'm just interested to know how he's meshing with the players, that's half the battle right there.
I never got the impression that Harter had the players' or other coaches' ear. What's your take on that, and on Ayers reception by the team and the rest of the staff? Also is Harvey Grant going to be replaced, I know that Wes Jr. has spent alot of time working with the young guys and seems to have a good relationship with them. With the youth on this team player development is going to be important. There's two basketball stories that I'd like to see more reporting on.


Posted by: GM | August 7, 2007 8:14 AM

To the person(s) that are making threat via this blog. Do realize that you can be traced to your home computer through your ISP (internet Service Provider). Although you can post anonmously, a web server (like the Washingtonpost.com's) still tracks IP addresses, which is estenially your fingerprint. From there, your IP can be traced to the ISP and your ISP can then trace it to you. Even a dynamic IP can be traced because there is a log of who was using a certain IP at a certain time. Do realize, using the internet to make a threat is a crime.(http://saltlakecity.fbi.gov/pressrel/2007/threats072407.htm).

Point is, I just want to make all aware since I deal with this kind of stuff on a daily basis.

Posted by: Computer Security Professional | August 7, 2007 8:18 AM

I found this to be a strange post by Ivan. He asked, "there are so many positive things to talk about with this franchise right now, why focus on one young kid's bad decison?"

Because he is a restricted free agent, is a key piece of the team's plans, and his behavior could derail all of that? Right? When you cover basketball, you don't just cover the bouncing ball and points scored. You cover the individuals on the team, the relationships between them, the business that surrounds it, etc. I don't recall Ivan complaining about having to discuss the salary cap and luxury tax. Those are parts of the story too, and detract from the basketball aspect (hence, no JCN for us). And I recall Ivan gleefully telling us stories about locker antics during the season. Those had nothing to do with basketball, either, but were revealing in their own way.

This Blatche story is just as important a story for the success of the Wizards as were the stories about Haywood and Thomas fighting, Kwame throwing his laundry on the floor and pouring ranch dressing on everything, Gilbert and Awvee Storey wrestling in the locker room, EJ resisting the addition of a defensive coach, Gilbert complaining about having to start playing defense in the middle of the season, EJ telling Jamison but not Haywood that they would be removed from the starting lineup, etc., etc., etc. They are all threads that make up the whole, and I think the reason many of us read this blog is that we want to learn of as many threads as we can about our favorite team.


And I hope reispace is correct, above. The posting on this blog seemed to go downhill around May/June. I hope it's kids out of school, and this blog will return to its former glory (haha) in September!

Posted by: Sean | August 7, 2007 8:19 AM

i havent seen any threats toward Ivan. I have seen people say fire him and all that stuff. As for the computer security specialist guy I'm sure you really scared everyone away with that. People can posts there oponions all they want. Some stupid blog isnt going to track ur IP address and track you down and arrest you unless you make a threat to kill someone or something absurd. you can say fire Ivan and all that stuff all you want.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 8:25 AM

"As for those folks on this blog that want to make threats..."

Wow, I must have missed something. :(

Ivan, just ignore those people. All they are trying to do is stir you up. Just ignore them, just a bunch of kids.

"Because he is a restricted free agent, is a key piece of the team's plans, and his behavior could derail all of that? Right?"

What Sean says and the fact that the Wiz have a "curse" over thier heads that goes back 20+ years to any player that was ever any good here.

Ivan you don't understand man. This city has had to endure A LOT of crap with this team. It's kinda like that referee, people just weren't surprised when it happend.

- Ray

PS - We've had more people here as Sean says since May/June then any time last season. It will change soon enough, the rest will go over to the Skins blog with Jason. The regulars will be all that's left. :P

Posted by: Ray | August 7, 2007 8:30 AM

where are the threats? Ivan needs to quit worrying about what people are writing and just focus on his job. What has anyone said except fire him? Where are the threats?

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 8:31 AM

Oh, and that's a really bad trade if it's true.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | August 7, 2007 8:32 AM

that trade rumor better not be true. Thats terrible if it is true. Chances are we won't see the pick for 3 or 4 years if that is true.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 8:33 AM

ivan is acting like a baby complaining about threats. Also he is only giving them what they want be replying to them. Ignore them......anyway where are the threats? Grow some balls and take the heat Ivan. Criticism coes with the job. You put together a nice blog just bypass the worthless and continue doing a good job.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 8:39 AM

Let's hope the positive vibes flow to AB. Let's not forget that James Worthy, a hall-of-famer and recognized good guy, was also charges with solicitation of prostitution, pleaded no contest, paid his dues (probation, fine, community service) and went on to be a great player. Like AB, he was surrounded by veterans and unlike AB, he had a solid college foundation at UNC.

Posted by: Antony IV | August 7, 2007 8:44 AM

Ivan, I sense a bit of pressure on you, whether is self-inflicted or job related I don't know, but you need to relax and take it on stride. You are doing a very good job; as far as as I am concerned, you and Tarik are the only ones worth reading on this newspaper.
Having said that, I do have one question: What do you mean by "... have even played basketball with his boys"? When you said "his boys", do you mean friends? clans? or does this young man actually have boys old enough to play any kind of games? Ok. there was more than one question, but remember you are writing for all kinds of people. Keep up the good work, I will continue reading you.

Posted by: opita | August 7, 2007 8:54 AM

"as far as as I am concerned, you and Tarik are the only ones worth reading on this newspaper."

Good call Opita that is why Kornheiser and Wilbon have a nationally televised TV show and are all over tv and no one has ever even heard of Ivan except internet bloggers.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 9:07 AM

wizards internet bloggers at that

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 9:07 AM

Hmm, maybe the threats came from the A.Blatche camp....

Posted by: Donkey Mcdonkerton | August 7, 2007 9:19 AM

Ivan,

I'm with those who caution you to not be so defensive on the blog. As I mentioned previously, I've been a journalist for a long time, and I think I can pretty well separate good reporting from bad. You're an outstanding beat reporter; the best I've seen covering the Wiz for quite some time.

But this is the Internet, man. You know well that any joker can say anything he/she wants. Just respond to people who question your reporting methodology or journalistic ethics with one statement: PROVE IT. If they think you're reporting rumors as facts, or making stuff up, have them provide evidence. If you're a careful reporter (and I'm sure you are), they'll slink away into the darkness and (hopefully) shut their traps.

But responding so shrilly just lets those idiots know they're getting under your skin, and will lead to more unfounded accusations against you.

The blog is great.

Posted by: Keithinator | August 7, 2007 9:25 AM

Oh crap, you can trace my threats? I'm out.

Posted by: osama | August 7, 2007 9:27 AM

Faceless accusations are nothing new in any instance. Thanks for your work.
WIZ KID

Posted by: Burg w/ a U | August 7, 2007 9:28 AM

See, this is exactly why I post every so often. Bamas dun got my man IC all riled up n stuff!! Ivan, a wise man once said, "you know you made it when you got haters." So take pride in the fact that someone actually cares enough about your exceptionally well written and very entertaining blog that they wanna send phony threats (cuz we all know, no real thug know how to use a computer anyway). And I agree with everyone else and hope that this downfall that has taken place on this blog is just a summer plague. Damn I can't wait til tip off!

Posted by: C.Bell | August 7, 2007 9:32 AM

get it in champ. f*ck what they sayin. now everybody wanted to bash Eddie Jordan for not playing Blatche.......i wonder why he didnt get any PT?

Posted by: young-i | August 7, 2007 9:33 AM

IC, you gotta do what you gotta do, and I respect you for that.

You know you have a crew of readers here who check out your posts, debate them thoughtfully, agree or disagree, and add their observations to the mix.

Together, we're the ones who make this blog click, not the ones who try to dip in and out with threats and nonsense.

Keep on keepin' on.

Posted by: iceberg | August 7, 2007 9:33 AM

Why beef on the Wizards Insider blog?

There's plenty of room for that on the DC Sports Bog.

Posted by: ScottVanPeltStyle.com | August 7, 2007 9:43 AM

so theres nothing else to do in early august, i'll speculate and then people can see if im wrong: ab does the stupid, ivan has newsworthy detail to back up other claims of stupid, ab denies the stupid, ivan says look i've got the f*(&^# police document saying you were in on the stupid, threats ensue from 12 year olds or ab's camp. that about it?

Posted by: CreditZard | August 7, 2007 9:51 AM

Ivan, I have been following the Wizards for a long time. Your coverage of them is the best. Keep up the great work. We need you here.

Posted by: Joe | August 7, 2007 9:53 AM

If the rumor about the pick for Navarro is true, we would have been better off turning it down and letting him stay in Europe (which is what I wanted to do if they couldn't give us what we wanted). The pressure on the Griz or someone with guard issues would have been ever greater next year. This dude wanted out and he would have been let out of his contract again next year. We gave him away for nothing. A 2010, 2011 or 2013 pick does nothing for us in 2007. Sure, we can say that it was only a 2nd round pick from 5 years ago but it had value. Whether he turns out to be a start or not (and I believe he'll do very well) we didn't get value for it.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 10:09 AM

I agree with Mark, that if that rumored trade is true, the Wizards would have been better off keeping Navarro in Europe and trying to sign him next year. I disagree, however, that the Wizards needed to get something for him in 2007. If you can trade him for an unprotected pick in 2012, that's a real asset. That's not the rumored trade, though.

Posted by: Sean | August 7, 2007 10:39 AM

Anybody on here looking for a (Blank) or a (Blank)?

Posted by: Undercover Cop | August 7, 2007 10:40 AM

"Bamas dun got my man IC all riled up n stuff!!"

There you go Ivan.....darn bamas! ;)

"Anybody on here looking for a (Blank) or a (Blank)?"

I got a dollar. What does that get me? ;)

- Ray

PS - This is a really good blog. It was the best kept secret for a while there.

Posted by: Ray | August 7, 2007 10:49 AM

So, a and a is the same price? Back in the day, a would have cost at least twice as much as a . Prices dropped ! I guess this recession isn't all bad.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 10:55 AM

I just hope Ernie signs Blatche so we get past this foolishness.

Posted by: John Brisker | August 7, 2007 11:03 AM

Here we go again. A first round pick isn't enough? How could we be better off sending Navarro back to Europe and risking that he wouldn't come back? Isn't that why many of the same people wanted Ernie to 'take what he could get' for him a week ago?

btw, Aaron Miles is likely headed back to Europe.

Posted by: Johnny Boy | August 7, 2007 11:11 AM

"Good call Opita that is why Kornheiser and Wilbon have a nationally televised TV show and are all over tv and no one has ever even heard of Ivan except internet bloggers. "

That is why? You mean to tell me that the reason those two guys are popular is because I said to Ivan "as far as as I am concerned, you and Tarik are the only ones worth reading on this newspaper." NO. Of course not. What you say and what you mean are two different things, I know your type.

I stand by statement, I prefer Ivan and Tarik over Korhneiser and Wilbon. Ivan talks basketball, Tarik hockey, what they know best. The other two are just opinionated people that belongs more on the gossip pages, and that is fine if that is what you want.

I must admit, I have only seen Ivan on TV and read him on the Internet, so I don't know how well known he is nationally, but I don't care, I am only interested in my local teams. As for Tarik, well body, he is well known in the world of Hockey and he worked in one of the biggest sports markets there is, New York. May be you should try to read more than K. and W.

Posted by: Opita | August 7, 2007 11:13 AM

Oh well... what's done is done. I guess the only real question we have now is Gil's health. The whole Etan/Haywood thing is a moot point since Etan is untradeable and Haywood is EG's fave. It'll go on another year at least. Our overall team should be better this year because we have more depth. It's up to EJ to play the guys now. The real question is...Can GA come back and be the same player he was? If not, nothing we do really matters.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 11:21 AM

Anyone know the final details of the pick the Wiz got from the Griz?

Posted by: Steve | August 7, 2007 11:25 AM

Ill tell you what everyone says ernie is a top 5 GM in the league I just don't see it personally. The only good move he has made is getting butler for kwame. Besides that he matched Etans contract he might have been the bucks GM at the time but either way he either have him the contract or matched it terrible move. He traded the 5th pick, stackhouse and latner for jamison bad trade we should have stack and deng instead even though I hate stack, he signed daniels to a deal he doesn't deserve, he traded navarro which really pisses me off and I think he will light up the league, Also before last year or 2 he has made terrible terrible draft picks. What makes him so great? Also navarro's team barcelona played the 76ers last year with iverson and weber and they beat them 104-99. It was the 1st euro team to beat an NBA team and navarro had 18 and was working the 76ers. Good call on trading him for a pick we might see in 5 years. Can someone explain to me why everyone thinks ernie is so great?? Besides the butler trade what has he done?

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 11:28 AM

Johnny Boy, I would love a first round pick if it wasn't lottery protected for the next 5 years. Based on the rumor above, it will NEVER be worth more than a top 12 and we'd have to wait 6 years for that? NBA teams don't usually have windows of 4 or 5 years to win. They have cores that grow older and get replaced by new cores. That's the cyclical nature of sports. I can't see the 2007 team being still intact in 2012 or 2013. That trade doesn't benefit this team at all. Gil will be 31 in 2013, Caron will be 33, AJ will be retired. It would have benefited us more to just trade it to Memphis with Etan for a bum (Swift) just to free up cap space. ..just my opinion.. Maybe I'm being too greedy or overstating JCN's worth but I feel cheated if this is the deal

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 11:30 AM

OPITA.........Hockey????.....I didn't even know hockey existed anymore. Go somewhere else with your hockey talk. If Ivan was such a great writer more people would know him besides you wizards internet bloggers. Also don't try to put words in my mouth you have no idea what i meant and ur response to mine made no sense. Ur comment alone shows me why ur in love with Ivan b/c its clear ur a blogger and will always be a nerd blogger

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 11:33 AM

OPITA "That is why? You mean to tell me that the reason those two guys are popular is because I said to Ivan "as far as as I am concerned, you and Tarik are the only ones worth reading on this newspaper." NO. Of course not. What you say and what you mean are two different things, I know your type"

Yeah I said the reason Wilbon and Kornheiser are popular is b/c what you said to Ivan OPITA. That makes a lot of damn sense

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 11:35 AM

Does anybody have a reponse to this? I would just like to know why everyone loves him so much.

Ill tell you what everyone says ernie is a top 5 GM in the league I just don't see it personally. The only good move he has made is getting butler for kwame. Besides that he matched Etans contract he might have been the bucks GM at the time but either way he either have him the contract or matched it terrible move. He traded the 5th pick, stackhouse and latner for jamison bad trade we should have stack and deng instead even though I hate stack, he signed daniels to a deal he doesn't deserve, he traded navarro which really pisses me off and I think he will light up the league, Also before last year or 2 he has made terrible terrible draft picks. What makes him so great? Also navarro's team barcelona played the 76ers last year with iverson and weber and they beat them 104-99. It was the 1st euro team to beat an NBA team and navarro had 18 and was working the 76ers. Good call on trading him for a pick we might see in 5 years. Can someone explain to me why everyone thinks ernie is so great?? Besides the butler trade what has he done?

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 11:37 AM

Anyone saying that no one knows who Ivan is need to realize how lucky we are to have him. The sports guy Bill Simmons specifically called out Ivan by name as being one of the better NBA beat writers. And a recent article on Yahoo.com both names Ivan and links to him. That's is one of the most popular internet columnists and nationally viewed site. Also, SI.com frequently links to Ivan on their rumor page.

Ivan, if you read this, I appreciate what you are doing and realize that the solicitation thing put you in an awkward position between doing your job and not making some one you are cool with look like an idiot. At this point, I would almost suggest that WaPo nix the comment option.

Posted by: College Educated | August 7, 2007 11:39 AM

ivan
do u think that the wizards r going 2 trade 4 camby plzz let me know

Posted by: ace | August 7, 2007 11:39 AM

Comments are the whole point of a blog college educated. Why dont you use that education and go get a job.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 11:43 AM

were not trading for camby let it go

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 11:44 AM

This is a great blog. Keep up the good work!

This is the best source for Wizards news!

Posted by: ZardFan | August 7, 2007 11:46 AM

Dumb post by college educated, above. If Ivan feels that he is being put in an "awkward position" with "someone he is cool with" by reporting on news about the Wizards, perhaps Ivan should resign from the Post and just hang out with "his boys."

Posted by: Joe | August 7, 2007 11:48 AM

I second Sean and Ray's posts. I love the blog Ivan, but the reason that a lot of us are worried about Blatche is because that is the natural thing for Wizards fans to do.
Seeing Blatche with this arrest makes a lot of us think that yet another top young talent might be getting mishandled by this franchise again, and that's very frustrating.

Posted by: George Templeton | August 7, 2007 11:48 AM

http://chrisvernon.blogspot.com/2007/08/dreaded-cvernoncom-exclusive.html

"I have been told that this is how the Navarro deal shakes out...

Memphis receives J.C. Navarro

Washington will receive a first round pick from the Grizzlies (contrary to what has been reported, I am told that this is how it will break down)
I will try to make this as simple as I can, but it is a little tricky

'08 if the Grizzlies select 20 or further down, it goes to the Wizards (top 19 protected)
'09 if the Grizzlies select 17 or further down, it goes to the Wizards (top 16 protected)
'10- '12 the Grizzlies pick is lottery protected
'13 - the pick is top 12 protected and if it has not been given, cash considerations will be given to the Wizards.

I love the way this shakes out for the Grizzlies and it is much more comforting than the reports that it is simply a lottery protected pick that they are giving up, etc."

Posted by: CN | August 7, 2007 12:01 PM

Ivan can you update on the memphis pick? Once again everyone has the info before you.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 12:01 PM

There's no way my previous post is true, which I got via ESPN.com and this site:
http://chrisvernon.blogspot.com/2007/08/dreaded-cvernoncom-exclusive.html

Posted by: CN | August 7, 2007 12:02 PM

Love the blog, am in Baltimore, and love any and all Wizards, and you satisfy my fix.
As for Blatche, why would anyone be surprised that a 20 year old gets into trouble. Yes he was shot, and now supposedly caught for solicitation. I have an emmient doctor froend who was arrested at the Exxon station , BWP and Bladensburg Rd, when he was filling his tank with petrol, and a gorgeous woman approached him. He was arrested immediately and the whole thing was eventually dropped. The problem is your local police, should have much more pressing issues tha setting up men with active male hormones.

Posted by: mricklen | August 7, 2007 12:02 PM

Scoop, I guess no one wants to answer you. I'm not anti-EG but I sure would like to see someone give a valid response.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 12:04 PM

Mark I'm not anti Grunfeld either I just think he is way overhyped. I think i made a valid point I was hoping someone would have something for me.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 12:07 PM

To anon and Joe, that is exactly why I say that the comments should be nixed. I do have a job and that is why I know it is awkward when someone I am friends with messes up and the boss asks me about what happened. You don't want to be the one that gets the guy in trouble. But I don't quit when this happens so I can continue to hang out with this person. And the point of a blog is the writers thoughts not the readers. That's just a bonus that some people are abusing.

Posted by: College Educated | August 7, 2007 12:12 PM

Basically, if the Grizz get to the second round of the playoffs in '08, we get the pick. Otherwise, we're short in '08. If they get to the first round in '09,'10,'11 or '12 we get it (assuming it's > 16 or >14 depending on the years.)

The best case scenario in this deal is that in 2013, we get the 13th pick. That deal SUCKS. Since it's not confirmed, I won't get angry about it but if that's the deal we took, I'm with Scoop re: EG.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 12:13 PM

well that is part of his job. Ivan needs to grow some balls and quit whining about having to write about blatche and quit whining about the threats. Its all part of the job take it in stride keep doing a good job just stop glorifying all the anon haters by writing about them in ur posts.

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 12:15 PM

Can't agree more Mr. Carter. The haterz are my motivation too, as are the prognosti-haterz saying the Magic(?!) will supplant the Wiz in the East playoffs. I think gearing up for a third season together and the resulting chemistry is something that makes this three the biggest in the conference, no?

Posted by: Bobtimist | August 7, 2007 12:18 PM

Well mark Im praying those reports are wrong. I will be awfully disappointed with ernie if they are true. If they are true I would have rather just taken swift and the cap relief he would have given us in the offseason even though I'm not a big fan of him.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 12:20 PM

Without Ivan this blog would probably not exist. His blog, his rules. I'm just glad I have a place to b*tch about our Wiz when they screw up and celebrate when they do well. I have nothing but respect for Ivan..whether he breaks a story first or not.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 12:22 PM

Ivan, I support you and you've been doing a great job. As Joe Cortez is, you're "fair but firm."

Given that, please do not turn into a Michael Wilbon who has a bad case of hero worship. First it was MJ, and now it's Tiger. It's sickening. I think Ahmad Rashad is Wilbon's mentor.

Posted by: DC Man88 | August 7, 2007 12:23 PM

scoop, exhibit A: caron.
exhibit B:
DeShawn Stevenson
$3,348,214

$3,616,071

$3,886,928

$4,151,786

Larry Hughes
$12,000,084

$12,827,676

$13,655,268

Posted by: CreditZard | August 7, 2007 12:24 PM

Creditzard, I gave him credit for caron. Not Impressed with stevenson we could have gotten a better player in Navarro for cheaper. Also as far as hughes goes everyone thinks we let him go. Grunfeld offered him a late contract worth more than the cavs but he turned it down b/c he thought they were closer to a championship. So still the question is besides caron what has he done that is so impressive? If he didn't get lucky with the whole hughes situation he really could have hurt the franchise.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 12:27 PM

Keep writing. I love the Wizards and love the insight!

Posted by: SS | August 7, 2007 12:30 PM

Scoop,

Here you go:

Signing Arenas away from GS, then extending his contract early. I'd say this was fairly impressive, wouldn't you? It only turned the franchise around.

Trading for Jamison. He's better than Stack, better than Devin Harris, who the Mavs drafted with the pick. You also can't underestimate the effect AJ has had on the team from a professionalism standpoint.

Trading Caron for Kwame. Slam-dunk of the last five years. And he also extended Caron's deal very early on. This is an overlooked factor, but an important one.

Got Blatche as a second-rounder. This latest knucklehead move on Andray's part doesn't mean that EG made a mistake. Blatche still has tons of ability, and getting him in the second round was a coup. Remember that he didn't have all this baggage when he was drafted.

Signed Songaila, and we saw what he could do in the second half of the season. Excellent pickup.

Drafted Pech last year, to give us another talented big.

Drafted Nick Young, whom most mocks had going in the 8-13 range, at 16 this year.

Drafted McGuire, who looks like a real player, in the second round this year. Then signed him to a contract that means he won't be leaving after the second year if he turns out to be a gem.

Didn't overpay Jeffries or Hughes and killing our cap space. Both teams that signed them are now regretting it.

Paid Stevenson a market-value contract, again not overpaying. Some may disagree with that statement, but for a starting two-guard, he got a reasonable contract, IMO.

His big mistake was giving too large a contract to Thomas, and overpaid Daniels. But those two gaffes are severely outweighed by his good moves, which had the Wiz in first place in the conference last year before injuries killed them.

That enough evidence for you?

Posted by: Keithinator | August 7, 2007 12:33 PM

Scoop, I think Grunfeld is a pretty good GM given what he has to work with. Abe is a penny pinching owner and if Grunfeld was in a situation like Dallas or Miami or Portland or NY, he'd be able to produce just as much or more.

It's hard for Grunfeld to work with a coach he didn't hire, and team that doesn't attract free agents b/c of the stingy franchise and because of the guard focused scoring mentality (ie. Gilby).

All you Gilby lovers don't blow a gasket, b/c if you were a FA looking for a team and you had someone like Steve Nash/Jason Kidd/Deron Williams/Chris Paul/etc. as an option to play with, you'd sure as heck rather play with either of them at PG rather than a player like Gilby or S.Francis.

Posted by: DC Man88 | August 7, 2007 12:34 PM

Obviously, I meant "trading Kwame for Caron" in my previous post. Sorry.

Posted by: Keithinator | August 7, 2007 12:35 PM

id possibly heard that about hughes, more than likely not. you got proof in the pudding? article or something stating so? as much as you may not like jamison and his matador-esque defense styles, he's countlessly been called the leader of the team. the wise vet. should a wise vet cost 16 mil? no. but hes off the books next year, when we really need to scoop someone to equal 3 stars in gil and caron and ___. could we have deng and stack and be more formidable? yes, but in the nba a GM just can't handicap a team for years (most do). i think he's done an okay job up until this point, but it doesnt matter until we sign gil and add someone with jamison's money. i think next offseason, plus how well pesh, young, and mcguire can contribute this year, will go a long way in solidifying EG's gm ability. or completely shatter everything i just said above.

Posted by: CreditZard | August 7, 2007 12:42 PM

Keithinator, it's enough for ME. The needle is moving towards EG for me now. Of course, after Wes, I pretty much liked anyone in the GM position. Now if only we could find a way to get D'Antoni (or his offense) here.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 12:45 PM

I'm a Washingtonian transplanted to the desert, and the Insider keeps me up on the bullets. thanks guys!

I, too, feel positive about this summer and the bullets in general. Ernie has demonstrated that he knows how to manage assets, and Eddie, who was always good at X's and O's is growing into the ability to manage talent and attitude. Can't wait for opening night

Posted by: Jason Behrs, Scottsdale | August 7, 2007 12:46 PM

Again, I still can't believe we're wasting time, space and energy on knuckleheads!!

Ivan and Michael are great. As you know,
I tend to be a bit partial to Mike but Ivan does a fine job as well.

Don't think we should give these folks another second of attention. I know you guys recall what we used to have to do to a certain blogger!! We ignored them!!!!

Ivan, you shouldn't have honored their comments with a response. I know you gotta know they were just trying to bait you into responding. It causes you to drop to their level and for what?

They need the attention you don't.
Just think about it...they would love, love, love to be in your shoes...chattin up any NBA player you want - ballin with them!!! Man! what a life!!!

Ivan, my young man, put on your cap, take your laptop and keep steppin...and pleez get outta here with debasing yourself for foolishness.

Lets get back to the NBA!

Thanks GM

Posted by: Robin | August 7, 2007 12:50 PM

Keithinator, I heartily agree with just about everything you said above as far as Ernie's moves since he has been here.

The only thing I would say is that AD may a little overpaid, but look for him to be a very stabilizing influence on a very young second team that may include Pesh, Blatche, McGuire, and Young. I would still keep him.

Posted by: Tim | August 7, 2007 12:50 PM

keithinator said it better, more succinct. and throwing this out there, but isnt it hard not to overpay for at least one or two veterans with the way NBA contracts are set up? i'm no good at money, could anyone speak on this?

Posted by: CreditZard | August 7, 2007 12:57 PM

man, u were hired to do a job, these late night pervs and idiots are trash, some people don't have anything better to do, so do a brother a favor and keep writing! u and wilbon ARE THE VOICE OF WASHINGTON! MUCH LUV FOR THA BROTHERHOOD!

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 1:02 PM

keithinator,

1.Gilbert flipped a coin and it landed on denver luckily he is so wierd he picked washington.

2.I gave you caron

3. I like jamison but we gave up to much for him. The #5 pick, stack and latner. We could have taken Deng who is better then jamison straight up and we could still have stack.

4. Songalia solid nothing to amazing but I like him off the bench

5. Stevenson good signing but we could have gotten a better player in JCN for cheaper.

6. As for young, pech, mcguire they have never stepped foot on an NBA court. they all look solid but they all could be busts as well.

7. Blatche looks good as well but still hasnt developed and now hes getting arested and lying about it.

8. He offered hughes a late offfer for more than the cavs but he didnt take it b/c he thought he got lowballed in the 1st place and he thought cleveland was closer to a championship.

So i still feel the same way besides Caron what has he done? Got lucky with gilby and hughes??

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 1:04 PM

With a name like CreditZard you're no good at money ? uh oh.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 1:04 PM

(1) Signed Arenas, when MJ drove away many of us thought we were looking at about another 10 years at the bottem of the league. Many prdicted that nobody would ever sign here.
(2) I'd disagree about the Stackhouse, Lattener and number 5 pick for Jamison being a bad deal. Sometimes It's not what you get, but what you get rid of, Stackhouse/Lattener were two vets that were a lockerroom cancer here. Pure poison, they had to go, there was no way they'd let Eddie coach this team, period. If Stackhouse was still here we'd be on our third coach by now.(Ray might think that would be a good thing)
Jamison brought us professionalism and character. He's got his weaknesses as a player, but we've been to the playoffs three straight years since he arrived.
(3)Kwame for Butler. Please see above Stackhouse comments. Two trades changed the character and culture of our lockerroom.
(4) Not matching Hughes deal when many around town were screaming bloody murder that the Wizards were being cheap again. Look at how that deal is killing Cleveland this summer.
(5)Having the guts to turn around the next year and not match another bad deal for Jeffries.
(6)Getting Stevenson for 5 yrs. at 16m. In the Salary Cap/Luxury Tax Era you can't hand out big deals to everybody.
(7)Haywood's deal. He's an inexpensive 7', look at other centers with similar numbers. He's cheap. You have to have some players like that to build a roster.
(8)Daniels was brought here to be a starter and he didn't pan out. But he's a solid pro and a proven winner. Sometimes you have to overpay at little when you need to change a losing culture.
(9) Three straight years in the playoffs and he changed the expectations to the point where some are now whining if we don't go to the finals Jordan should be fired. What was deemed a successful season before Grunfeld got here?
(10) Resisted the urge to make a quick solution deal and make a big splash and brought in Young, Pecherov and McGuire this offseason and continued to build this team pc. by pc.

Posted by: GM | August 7, 2007 1:08 PM

OK. the needle is back even after reading Scoop.
The Hughes thing is true. We tried to counter but it was too late. Also, any one of us could have picked up Gilbert. He'd torched us for 40 that year and he was a young guy with numbers that improved every year in the league. Songaila is average at best. I'd prefer JCN over DS but Gil may have forced his hand on that one. Paying Jamison max money for many years isn't a great move. Since he went to an all star game for us and he's one of our best players, I gotta give him credit on that one. All in all, I think he's done an ok job. If the picks pan out, then he's been good. If not, all he's done is NOT screw up, which is an improvement on what we had before.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 1:11 PM

As I recall, that whole "Gilbert flipped a coin" story was debunked a while ago by Gilbert himself.

Before Grunfeld took over this team, the Wiz were a disaster and a laughing stock, a team mired in a decades long bout of futility and a culture of losing. Since he came on board they've become a respectable playoff caliber team with a bright future.

People can carp and nitpick the particulars of specific deals to the world ends. The basic fact is that Grunfeld took the nothing of a team he was given and made something out of it.

Damn good job (but still more work to do).

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 1:11 PM

not resigning jeffries was a given jeffries sucks.

Once again not only did he match the hughes offer he offered more and got lucky. Also he got lucky on gil it all came down to a coin flip that we lost and he picked us anyway b/c he is weird. Also don't even talk about haywood he is pathetic. The list speaks for itself Caron has been the only great deal he has made.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 1:13 PM

I'm much more interested in what is going on with the Wizards NOW than I am with a 94 Sonics/Nuggets Game 5 when Dikembe, Robert Pac, Reggie Williams and the Nuggets pulled off one of the best upsets of all time. Sorry ... that's just me. If a Wizards player does something news-worthy, good or bad, I want to hear about it.

Posted by: JustAnotherWizardFan | August 7, 2007 1:13 PM

I think Grunfeld is a good GM just not top 5 in the league. The caron trade was amazing. Gil and hughes he got lucky. There were other solid moves nothing that blows you away. if the draft picks pan out he will look much better in my eyes. Just think he has been a little overhyped and a little lucky. The thing i do like about him is he normally stays away from overpaying people. i say normally b/c of etan/jamison

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 1:18 PM

First of all I love the anon poster who is telling IC to get balls. Put YOUR REAL NAME on something before you try acting tough around here. Jeesh, so worthless.

Defense of EG

Gotta say there are plenty of reasons to like the AJ for stack trade regardless of Deng. To look back at that trade you have to remember the context. Stackhouse made it pretty darn clear he didn't want to be here, and he had started to drain the clubhouse. His oncourt play was fairly uninspired, and he still had this idea he was supposed to be a really big deal. (Can't say this is all his fault he took a big portion of the Jordan crap) Look how fast Stack realized his place in the universe, all it took was playing on a loaded Dallas squad. In return we got an all star who immediately started opening up space on the floor for GA and others. A player whose consistency on the floor, in the locker, and in the gym has buoyed the young wizards squads. A player that helped washington make the playoffs 3 consecutive season. Would it be nice to have Deng? Sure, but draft picks are speculation, that could have gone a bunch of different ways. EG made a trade that got us definitive value for a player that not a lot of teams held in high regard at the time. You can't overlook the importance of that. If you want to sit here and look back at players we could have drafted and stuff, I guess that is entertaining, but it is not always very relevant. There are very few sure things in the NBA, and Deng for all his talent, would not have outweighed the impact that getting AJ (the addition by subtraction) and getting rid of Stack.

Now, to discuss Etan's value. If you think back (peek into your memory) You may remember at the time, that our team was pretty unsure of BTH, and there were not a lot of bigs available. None at the time really. It was lose Etan for nothing. And Etan figured prominently in EJs plans, so I'm sure there was some pressure there. Additionally, you have to remember that these teams don't operate in a vacuum. The other GMs are setting market value, and pushing deals, to put pressure on other teams. Did we pay a a bit more than we wanted to? I'm sure, but that is life in the NBA sometimes. If you think back, Etan still was in the showing potential part of his career... so I would say there were more than a few mitigating factors.

At the end of the Day EG took an NBA lost cause and turned it into a contender, pretty fast too. When EG came here the Wiz were radioactive, most GM's didn't want to look at the wiz, let alone work for them.
You can say he's not all that if you want, but I think he has done a darn good job overall, especially when you consider the real situations he was facing. That is where I think you are mistaken.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 1:23 PM

Scoop,

You're simply wrong. Jeffries didn't "suck". He's a role player, and for role players, as a GM you have to decide what a player's worth and whether or not to resign or let him go, according to the market. Jared wasn't worth what the Knicks offered, so Ernie declined to overpay him. He would've been resigned if he had accepted a contract commensurate with his worth. When the Knicks gave him an outrageous offer, Ernie wisely pulled out.

Please stop with the Gilbert "coin flip" nonsense. We weren't "lucky" - Ernie made a better offer; that's why Arenas is here. When he came, no one could've predicted he'd be the player he is now. But Ernie saw his potential, and used the system brilliantly to get him here. He gave him a big contract at the outset that Arenas hadn't yet earned, but believing he'd be worth the money, he went ahead and did it anyway. Seems to have worked out OK.

Most of Ernie's moves have panned out so far. That's what you want in a GM. There's no GM, in any sport, that gets a hit every time at bat. Given his sterling track record here, and at his other stops, where he's consistently built winners, I'm grateful Abe saw fit to bring him on board and (from all appearances) give him nearly full control of the team.

Posted by: Keithinator | August 7, 2007 1:29 PM

nice debate. I'm stuck on EG being above average.

Posted by: mark | August 7, 2007 1:40 PM

Keithinator,

If jeffries doesn't suck why is Isaih begging people to take him a year after he signed him for 30 mil. He was the 11th or 12th pick in the draft and he averages what 5 and 5. I know he is a role player and a terrible one at that. he wasn't even playing on the knicks. He plays ok defense at best and that is overrated. The only thing he does well is make that stupid fave with his lips. Even on espn in the past month they broke down the knicks and said jeffries was one of the worst signing isaih has had. Jeffries is a 0 EJ just likes him b/c of his versatility. The only time he played well was his final year here in the last 20 or 30 games when he was trying to get a contract. If anyone on this blog thinks jarred jeffries is good your not worth my time.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 1:41 PM

Scoop,

Your argument that JCN is better than DeShawn is based on what? JCN may prove to be a better scorer than DeShawn in time, but people seem to keep forgetting that THE WIZ ARE ONE OF THE HIGHEST SCORING TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE! I don't have stats handy, but we were one of a handful of teams that averaged over 100 pts/gm last season. I argue that the last thing the Wiz need is another scoring guard. As presently constituted, DeShawn is EXACTLY what the Wiz need in their first unit: an unselfish player who doesn't demand the ball on offense and hits open shots, and is committed to playing defense at the other end of the floor. EG did the right thing in keeping DeShawn from a chemistry and economic standpoint.

Other than that, I agree with you that EG isn't the greatest GM ever (see JCN trade, the Poet's contract and AD's contract) but he is a hell of a lot better than ol' Wes...

Posted by: Essex | August 7, 2007 1:44 PM

I meant to say the only thing jeffries does well is make that stupid face with his lips. Any real fan knows exactly what I am talking about.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 1:44 PM

You know, your point on the Hughes thing is kind of off too.

Hughes was playing well for us, maybe he would have done better if he stayed. You can't really prove it either way, the point is Hughes deal isn't good or bad based solely on how well he plays. At the time there was no reason to expect him not to play well. So luck didn't really come into it.

If you accept the general consensus that at the time Hughes was well regarded, then evaluating EG on this deal means looking at the negotiations. Hughes wanted a feel good offer, and EG realized that the wiz needed to start playing their cards closer to their vest. He made a fair offer that hughes was insulted by (what is that?) and then he let let hughes test the market. Look if hughes doesn't find love from cleveland then he has no leverage. In the end though, cleveland liked his game enough and offered him an over sized contract. Ernie waited, not a bad idea, anybody in an open market negotiation knows that the smart thing to do is use as much time as possible to keep from having to bid too many times. Hughes decided he didn't like that style, I guess he prefers his teams to be poorly managed. So he bails. Even after a counter offer that is higher that EG would have liked (see original offer) but represents EGs desire to maintain chemistry and Hughes contributions on the court.

In the end when Hughes decides to walk even with the counter, other teams took notice that the wiz wouldn't be so easily fleeced anymore.

So, what is wrong with this?
EG's job with regards to Free Agents is to look at a players development and decide their value. Then he tries to sign that player as close to that value as possible. He did all of those things with hughes. Turns out hughes becomes injury prone, and never lives up to the expectations in Cleveland. No GM would have predicted that.
You can't evaluate EG on this trade based on luck or not, the question is what is his job? And how well did he do it?

If you want psychic hotline for GM that is peachy, but in the meantime EG is doing a good job for an ordinary human.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 1:45 PM

essex you make a good point stevenson fits in well with the 5. We still give up 104. something a game though. I didnt want JCN to start I wanted him for scoring off the bench. i wish we could have kept both but I know thats not possible. Also im basing JCN being better than stevenson off a game I watched last year when barcelona beat the 76ers with AI and weber and JCn had 18 and was working the 76ers. I know its just one game but he was impressive. He is also scrappy on D. Stevenson is better next to gil probably just think navarro is the better player. Wish we could have kept navarro and signed some cheap D player like greg buckner or something for D purposes on the perimeter.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 1:51 PM

Scoop,

I don't know if you're deliberately missing my point, or you just can't read very well. I said Jeffries is a role player. As such, he has a role. The question is 'what is he worth, according to his role?' Ernie decided his worth based on Jared's being a rangy, versatile, long defender. Isaiah decided he was worth a lot more. He was wrong, Ernie was right. Ernie's right a *lot* more often than he's wrong. That's why I've grown to trust him.

Posted by: Keithinator | August 7, 2007 1:52 PM

greg, Hughes was injury prone as wizards. He was injury prone at STL his freshamn year. He was injury prone in Philly. Honestly he had one break out season in his contract year and then ur going to offer him all that. Grunfeld got very very lucky with the hughes situation. We wouldn't be where we are today if we had kept him.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 1:56 PM

Keithinator,

The reason we didn't re-sign Jeffries is b/c he beeged the team not to. he didn't want to be here just like hughes didn't. Another situation where the player helped Ernie. Also like I said earlier I realize he is a role player and he sucked at his role. Evryone said he was good at D but he was fair at best. Every game i watched that man all I did was yell at the tv/EJ to get him off the court. he is terrible and once again I don't have time for anyone who doesn;t see that. If you think Jeffries is good just quit replying to me b/c u are crazy

Posted by: Scoop | August 7, 2007 1:59 PM

...and now we have to hear that because Isiah now wants to kick Jeffries out of town, that means Jeffries sucks. Look, if you want to be a Knicks fan that is fine, but at the moment, I'm not going to use Isiah's decision making as the barometer for talent.

Here is a reason. HE way overpaid Jeffries. We had Jeffries as a decent role player, someone who, as the team got more depth might be best off the bench. Now Isiah wants to get the money off of his books.
This has less to do with Jeffries talent, than Isiah's ability to evaluate a player and negotiate a contract. And as a point of fact this has very little bearing on evaluating EG's job other than to note that he didn't go overboard trying to keep Jeffries. Which was a good thing.

You can be convinced that EG sucks, doesn't really matter to me. However, I think that the majority of information we have points to him doing a very solid job. Being a good Gm isn't just about the deals you make, it's about the deals you don't make. It's about setting value, and fair negotiations. It's about not blowing up your pay scale and getting solid return on your investment. It's about building a solid franchise and then it's about winning. I think where you can make an argument that EG is a top five GM is when you take into consideration the situation he came into here. But top five arguments are circular and endless, so it is enough for me to know that EG is doing a very good job with the materials he has been given.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 2:02 PM

"Yeah I said the reason Wilbon and Kornheiser are popular is b/c what you said to Ivan OPITA. That makes a lot of damn sense"

Doesn't it? Go back and read what you typed you moron (sorry, I meant DUMB ASS).

HERE IS A GOOD LINK FOR YOU:
http://www.passged.com/

Posted by: Opita | August 7, 2007 2:05 PM

I didn't say Grunfeld sucks. he has done an ok job and has goten lucky a couple times. I have countered everyone of ur arguments and shot them all down except maybe resigning stevenson which i really have no problem with just preferred JCN. As for all the jeffries talk it is his talent. he is behind richardson, lee, balkman and this year wilson chandler on a team that can't even go 500. Even if he was making the minimum he would still be pathetic. I know every team needs role players but jeffries sucks at every role on the court. Dont even know why im responding to this nonsense

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 2:08 PM

ok i will concede that Hughes had some history of injuries, but I would add that it didn't appear that he had anything chronic. The thumb injury was in the course of play. The season before he left he was averaging 22pts, 3 Steals, 5 assists, and 6 rebounds.

I'm just saying EG didn't get lucky. He negotiated, and he didn't do a bad job. There is a nuance that you might be missing. I don't want a lucky GM, I want a smart negotiator who helps build a strong franchise. That is what EG is.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 2:09 PM

Scoop,

You haven't shot down any arguments at all. As for Jeffries, doesn't Isaiah's treatment of him simply validate Ernie's opinion that he was worth a low-value contract?

Posted by: Keithinator | August 7, 2007 2:12 PM

keithinator,

Ernie was going to match the deal until Jeffries begged him to let him go. The player helped Ernie just like hughes did. And you said I couldn't read.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 2:13 PM

OPITA ill say it again maybe if i just keep typing that small brain you have might start working.

How can what you said to Ivan have anything to do with Kornheiser or WIlBON?

Go back and read again if you need to.

Looks to me you are the dumbasss

here is the link back looks like you need it.

http://www.passged.com/

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 2:16 PM

You do realize that just because Jeffries asked to leave, that didn't obligate Grunfeld to let him go? He could have easily resigned Jeffries against his wishes, if he thought it best served the team. The reason he let Jeffries go was because he knew he could sign an equivalent player (Stevenson) for a fraction of the price.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 2:18 PM

I do realize he didn't have to let Jeffries go. I also realize the reason he let him go is b/c he didn't want someone who didn't want to be here in the locker room. Grunfeld didn't want to haywood's running around. Then once again Grunfeld got lucky that stevenson turned down the Orlando deal and happened to be out there and he swooped in and made a better move. Don't get me wrong Ernie has done great things for the franchise. he has gotten us where we are today. im just saying he is overrated and not top 5 in the league like everyone tries to say. you people try to act like I want him banished and killed.

Posted by: SCOOP | August 7, 2007 2:21 PM

Ha ha ha, in your mind.

My points were that being a good GM is about:

1. Strong negotiations. Hughes.

2. More than the deals you make, the deals you pass on. Jared.

3. Evaluating talent. Blatche, MacGuire, Pesh, Gilbert, Caron etc etc.

4. Taking some chances. Gilbert.

5. Getting fair market value as much as possible. DS.

6. Building a strong franchise from the ground up. Jamison.

You have completely ignored most of these and I sense that you just don't 'get' a lot of it. Which is OK because you don't have the job. You can sit here and pick over deals and trades ways they would have worked out better for you. That is your prerogative. But that doesn't make them real. EG has to do his job in a competitive environment with other GM's acting irrational (NY, Cleveland) and working towards their own ends. EG has done a good job in this environment making the team better. The fact that you can pick over a 3 times playoff team is a testament to that fact. Have a nice day.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 2:22 PM

I meant to say grunfeld didn't want 2 haywoods running around

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 2:23 PM

Okay, let's try it this way.

Scoop, please list (no particular order) who you think are the top 5 GMs in the NBA.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 2:26 PM

Scoop, you are a piece of work. Who out there is better than Grunfeld? You throw out a move or two that are shaky by him, and roast him for that. Please name me a GM who has never made a bad move. Hell, even the best like Joe Dumars or Donnie Nelson make mistakes from time to time. Oh, but when Grunfeld does something good, he is just "lucky", huh? So basically you are saying he gets lucky with all his good moves, and is totally at fault for everything bad that happens. No wonder management or writers get mad at unrealistic fans like you.

Posted by: steven | August 7, 2007 2:26 PM

Scoop,

Way to stir the pot scoop! This the most engaged I've been in this blog in a minute... Of course I MUST respond to your post:) JCN has attained an almost mythical status among Wiz fans. But the reality of the situation is that there is no telling whether JCN will have the impact that many on this blog believe he will. I think that EG's biggest mistake with respect to bench scoring was letting Juan Dixon go. Say what you want but when he got hot, we were unstoppable. I think Nick Young can fill the role of bench scorer, in time.

Fact is, I can only think of two players off the top of my head that can consistently come off the bench and drop 20-30 pts; Ben Gordon and Manu Ginobili (sometimes Jason Terry and Barbosa explode, but they don't do it on a consistent basis). That's it. That's the list right there. One game against an NBA team (the 76ers at that)does not mean that JCN will just automatically light up the league. Could we use JCN's scoring? Maybe. Will Nick Young grow into his role as a bench scorer? Maybe. Right now it is too soon to say that EG screwed up in keeping DeShawn over JCN. Check back in a year or so...

Posted by: Essex | August 7, 2007 2:26 PM

greg,

I noticed a long time ago it doesn't matter what I type to you. evrything you write is going to be correct and everything I write makes no sense. you are a hard head

How is hughes strong negotiations he offered to much money got lucky. Thats pretty strong.

I said thank god he passed on Jared b/c he is one of the worst players in the league that makes no sense

All the rooks who havnt stepped on the court Im glad no name greg thinks they are great they could be but they all could be busts thats all specualation. DS I agreed on.

Jamison we gave up to much he is a great locker room guy but not worth all that and 16 mil a year.

So like I have been saying all along the only move that is great is caron. Gilbert was lucky. The rest solid but all can be questioned. But like I have said before we would be nowhere with out ernie just dont think he is top 5 in the league. Can you get that through ur brain.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 2:28 PM

"Gilbert was lucky."

Please stop with the "lucky coin flip" nonsense. Gilbert admitted over a year ago that he made that up. It never happened.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 2:30 PM

"The fact that you can pick over a 3 times playoff team is a testament to that fact. Have a nice day."

The Twolves made the playoffs what 7 or 8 years in a row and i could pick them a part to no end. Just b/c you make the playoffs doesn't mean anything. We got out of the 1st round once and got swept. when we actually do soemthing in the playoffs then i will quit picking apart the team.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 2:33 PM

kalorama,

Why did he say it in the 1st place?? i never heard it wasn't true. i think you are wrong

Posted by: jimmy | August 7, 2007 2:34 PM

"Why did he say it in the 1st place?? "

Because he's Gilbert.

"i think you are wrong"

I know I'm not.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 2:35 PM

well prove it. i think you are wrong. why is it u are the only one saying it isn't true. i heard gilbert say it i believe it

Posted by: jimmy | August 7, 2007 2:37 PM

lol

"All the rooks who havnt stepped on the court Im glad no name greg thinks they are great they could be but they all could be busts thats all specualation. DS I agreed on."

I would agree with you if you had made a compelling point. IN POINT OF FACT your entire argument is speculation. Don't call me out on your problem OK. I didn't say all our young guys are going to be stars, but I think general consensus is they all have potential to be good. So I would say he is a good talent evaluator.

I haven't heard a good argument yet so we will just have to agree to disagree. In the meantime, I am fine being referred to as "no name greg" as you referred to me. Last I remember YOU kept posting questions about EG's ability and asking for SOMEONE to reply. Didn't realize that was restricted to front office personnel, I'm sure they are all over this forum.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 2:38 PM

Greg,

Re: your 6 points -- well said, indeed.

Kalorama,

It seems obvious scoop isn't interested in a dialogue here. He (she?) hasn't responded with anything but invective and insults. It reminds me of the preacher who wrote in the notes for his sermon, "Argument shaky here. Remember to shout."

Posted by: Keithinator | August 7, 2007 2:38 PM

I don't need to prove it. I read the quotes from Gilbert in multiple news articles. Also, I'm not the only person who has said so.

You want proof, I'm pretty sure Google still works. Knock yourself out.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 2:40 PM

"Didn't realize that was restricted to front office personnel, I'm sure they are all over this forum."

I was really hoping front office personnel would reply good call buddy


I didn't say all our young guys are going to be stars, but I think general consensus is they all have potential to be good. So I would say he is a good talent evaluator.


Guess what every player taken in the 1st round has the potential to be good they dont pan out. I went down and contradicted every point you made on ur list real surprise no comment then I made the comment about the TWolves which ruined another statement of urs then you come back with this. Pretty funny you don't reply when you are clearly wrong you just start talking about something else.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 2:43 PM

You need to read it closer.

I agree that you can pick over whatever team you want to. OK. The point is... That the fact that the wiz are now a playoff team (3times) is an indicator that EG has done a good job. (can you say that is a bad thing? Going to the playoffs?)

The playoff teams are a testament to his quality, now there are some people who can pick apart anything. That is fine, but as long as EG continues to build this team and make smart decisions I see no cause for alarm.

You have yet to address any of the contextual impacts on the deals. The atmosphere in which deals were made.

I think all of your arguments really amount to a bunch of 'hindsight is 20/20' speculation. Which is entertaining if not relevant. So. have at it.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 2:44 PM

EG has stated, and I agree, that bringing Jamison was the single best move he's made. He's worth every penny. I'm certain he'll be back next year because no way EG or Abe will let him depart. And he's smart enough to take a pay cut.

Making a bunch of smart, steady moves that builds a real TEAM (chemistry, attitude, etc) over time is bad how? That's how the Spurs and Pistons did it. Sure, there's the splashy Heat, which only proves it can be done both ways. But EG's way lasts longer.

Posted by: reispace | August 7, 2007 2:45 PM

You need to use ur brain the TWolves went 7 or 8 years in a row. Does that Mchale a good GM??

The point u made makes no sense

Posted by: SCOOP | August 7, 2007 2:49 PM

The only thing that is hindsight is 20/20 is the Deng pick. The only reason I use that is b/c the night of that draft I was praying we would take Deng.

Posted by: Scoop | August 7, 2007 2:51 PM

it has nothing to do with hindsight its just the move i would have made. I saw Deng was amazing then and I still feel the same way.

Posted by: sccop | August 7, 2007 2:52 PM

Tell me one time I said he was a bad GM. All I am saying is he isn't top 5. READ people I know its difficult but read before u start throwing ur stones.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 2:54 PM

Just because you wrote something back doesn't mean that it countered anything.

You made your point. You think EG got lucky a few times. I mean whose to say he didn't get lucky with caron? Huh? I don't think luck had much to do with any of it. I think EG works hard and knows how to negotiate. I made particular points about the context in which those negotiations were made and the way those moves bolstered the team. You have not refuted any of those other than that Hughes had a history of injuries, which I noted had apparently not affected his value (cleveland paid him) and I think EG was justified in both making a low initial offer and then attempting to come over the top at the last minute to retain a big part of our team. You have to evaluate these maneuvers on more than hypothetical other players we could have had. If you want to say, letting jerry stackhouse go was a bad decision I can agree or disagree. But if you say 'When we let stackhouse go we could have gotten Deng and then we would be a better team." you have constructed an argument solely on speculation. There is really nothing to respond to. I could say something equally irrelevant like, yeah we should have traded JCN for Kobe. Doesn't mean it would be that way. What is real, is that the wizards have improved since EG got here.

I'm sorry this is turning into a lesson on logic.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 2:54 PM

Greg Im never speaking to u again. After about an hour of arguing I realize u are not worth my time b/c nothing is ever going to get through ur thick skull.

"I'm sorry this is turning into a lesson on logic"

If you call that logic i pity you

you are a dumbass my friend

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 2:57 PM

The Wizards were a laughing stock of a franchise before Grunfeld took over. It was basketball Siberia. Players came here to watch their careers die. Losing was not just expected, it was an inevitability.

In a very brief period , Grunfeld changed the Wiz into a team where winning was no longer a fluke or a surprise, it was expected, and failure to win was a disappointment, not the status quo.

When the Webber/Howard Bullets got swept in the first round by the team that ended up winning the East, people celebrated their competitiveness in losing as a sign of good things to come. Fans were damn near giddy. Over a four-game sweep. When an undermanned, injury-hobbled shell of a Wiz team got swept by the team that ended up winning the East, people were pissed because they actually thought the Wiz had a chance to win, even though they were playing without their two best players, missing 40 ppg from their starting lineup.

That's what Grunfeld did for the Wiz. Comparing that to the ungodly mess McHale created in Minnesota is ridiculous.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 2:58 PM

I don't think that I said that you think EG is bad? But it is too much to reread now. I would say that you are arguing he is overrated, which basically implies to most people that he is bad. You might want to communicate that more clearly.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 2:58 PM

Still waiting for that list, Scoop my man.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 3:00 PM

All I am saying is he isn't top 5. READ people I know its difficult but read before u start throwing ur stones


I probably said all I am saying is he isn't a top 5 GM about 20 times if that isn't clear I don't know what is

Posted by: SCOOP | August 7, 2007 3:01 PM

kalorama,

Read up I left at least 3 if not 4 or 5. All against what greg had to say and contradicted every point he made every time. Don try to get cute with me

Posted by: SCOOP | August 7, 2007 3:02 PM

ah, the best argument... the name calling.
Well clearly that has won the argument for you.

I wrote very specific replies to your points, after you begged for a reply. And you have never addressed most of them.

So clearly I am the dumbass.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 3:03 PM

Maybe I am missing something, but how did Ernie lowball Larry Hughes if we all agree he is overpaid and I also thought the counter offer was still less than what Cleveland offered him? Two, where did you (scoop) or anyone see that Ernie Grunfeld was going to match the Jeffries offer sheet and had to be talked out of it?

Posted by: George Templeton | August 7, 2007 3:05 PM

"Don try to get cute with me"

Whatever went on between you and Don is none of my business. I'm just interested in your list of the 5 GMs who are better than Grunfeld.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 3:06 PM

Greg, i have replied to everything you have said multiple times and every time shot it down. If you cant read or want to see through it that is fine. Like I said earlier i'm done with you so don't even waste ur time replying to anything i say b/c im not going to waste my time reading that is for sure

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 3:06 PM

Well, I think that Hughes felt low-balled by the initial offer from EG. This is my recollection of the situation. Then word came out that EG put in a last minute offer that Hughes turned down. Whether this offer was higher or lower than Clevelands offer is not known by me, But I remember hearing that he offered a slight bit more. And Hughes turned it down. I'm only saying (if this is true) I don't mind so much, because hughes was a big part of the team at the time. He was drawing a lot of interest. Is hughes overpaid now, yeah, absolutely, but I think that at the time people felt like hughes was worth a lot.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 3:10 PM

Paxson, Collangelo, Dumars, RC Buford, and donnie nelson in no order. Im not the only one that feels that way here is a list if you still disagree

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/kelly_dwyer/06/25/gm.rankings/index.html


Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 3:11 PM

The SI writer didn't even have him top 10. Anyone still disagree? Quit jerking off to ur king and wise up. He is good but no that good.

Scoop scoop scoop

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 3:15 PM

proved my point im done with you guys for the day.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 3:16 PM

Kalorama what do you think of the list?

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 3:17 PM

Also, can I get a show of hands from people who feel as though you have refuted my points? You just haven't. Sorry man, writing a reply is great, but you didn't offer anything to suggest that Ernie isn't really good at dealing with other GM's or Free Agents. That he doesn't have a good sense fro what this franchise needs and how to get it.

You made some point about AJ for stack (and the speculative deng) being a bad deal, but that was solidly rebuked when you consider where the team was, and what they needed to get better. Solid veteran leadership. Leadership that Stack wasn't offering. And the idea that stack would have stuck around after his contract is really wishful thinking. You said Jared was an obvious move. So what? Hughes was luck. I think not. And I point out details that I think show that the Hughes deal was not luck. Then you say he was lucky again.... that doesn't refute any of the points i made. Caron was good. I concede that. Our young guys are talented but unproven. OK. that is pretty fair, and unavoidable too. The fact we still have a good crop bodes well for a developing team. DS we agree on, but I don't think EG just got lucky signing him. That is his job and he did it well. there were probably 20 other teams that would have liked to make that deal. Is EG perfect, of course not. But I think he has been really good for this team, and that gets him in my top five. Sorry if you were having dreams about Deng on draft day, that just isn't enough to impeach the guy.

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 3:21 PM

"Kalorama what do you think of the list?"

I think Kelly Dwyer is a smart, well-respected sportswriter. Where's your list?

"Im not the only one that feels that way"

Hardly a shock, since you just aped someone else's observations and opinions and presented them as your own.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 3:30 PM

Without going too much into the specifics here (that's for a later Bullets Forever piece), Ernie has historically been an above-average general manager, but as Scoop says, I wouldn't place him in the Top 5. I'd probably list him in a muddled second-tier with guys like Rod Thorn, John Paxson, Geoff Petrie (who's fallen off dramatically in recent years), Kevin O'Connell, Darryl Morey, and others.

Historically, Ernie has an excellent track record in two categories: trades and second-round draft picks. While GM of the Knicks, he dealt declining players like John Starks and Charles Oakley to get Latrell Sprewell and Marcus Camby. Obviously, he's done an excellent job here as well with the Kwame trade and the Stackhouse for Jamison deal. The latter wasn't a slam dunk, but I can't see how anyone can claim it wasn't sound. Yes, Jamison had an additional year on his contract, and yes, that first-rounder COULD have yielded an impact player, but Stack was awful for team chemistry, and Harris wasn't going to fit in DC. As far as drafting, the shining moment of his Bucks' tenure was plucking Michael Redd in the second round, and it looks like Andray Blatche and Dominic McGuire have the potential to be impact players.

Where he's less successful is with free agents. Many of the positives he achieved in New York and Milwaukee were negated by cap-killing deals for mediocre guys like Charlie Ward and Tim Thomas. That didn't change right away, as he signed Etan Thomas to an extravagent deal that's still killing us. Otherwise, though, he's been better than before, having signed Brendan Haywood, Caron Butler, Darius Songaila, and DeShawn Stevenson to affordable deals. Even Antonio Daniels wasn't a bad deal at the time, although it's hurting now.

As for Arenas, it's been proven that he made that coin flip story up, but I will concede that there's a little bit of luck to the signing. Nobody, much less Ernie Grunfeld, had to believe he would be that good so quickly, and at the time, many felt they were giving an unproven guy way too much money.

Essentially, Ernie's very good, and he's much better than what we've ever had. We have to remember that this team was an absolute mess when he came here, and he's done a great job to get this team to this level so quickly. It remains to be seen, however, whether he can put this team over the top. He's done better here than in any other stop, but the jury is still out.

Posted by: Pradamaster | August 7, 2007 3:31 PM

"As for Arenas, it's been proven that he made that coin flip story up, but I will concede that there's a little bit of luck to the signing. Nobody, much less Ernie Grunfeld, had to believe he would be that good so quickly..."

How can you know this? Certainly he believed Arenas would end up being a significant player in the NBA at some point or he wouldn't have paid him that kind of money. It's not like Arenas was a guy no one had heard of. He was one of the most sought after FAs of that summer. dentifying guys who haven't yet "arrived" and locking them up before they break big is the talent evaluation part of a GM's job.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 3:40 PM

I agree with prada here.
I think the reason some people would put him top 5 is because of washington's historic woes. I do think AJ was a very good trade for this team. Would he have been better on other teams? Probably not, but he gave the wiz a lot of what they needed.

In the end, I think we got the best GM who was willing to come to the sorry situation that washington had, so in that sense for washington he is the #1 GM. Is there a better GM that would have come here?

Posted by: greg | August 7, 2007 3:42 PM

Scoop,

There's an old debater's saying: When a debater stoops to personal insults, it's a sure sign he's losing the debate. That's what's happening to you, my friend. You lose everyone's respect when you start the name-calling. We can have a reasonable debate about EG's abilities as a GM, but when you start letting it get personal, you show your true colors and folks will quickly STOP arguing with you. I'm very close to that point now. If you want to discuss things like an adult, you're welcome to. If you continue to act like a 9-year-old, you will just be ignored.

Posted by: Keithinator | August 7, 2007 3:49 PM

funny I made the list myself and then just got the article to back up my facts. If I took his list I would have put it in the same order. Don't get mad b/c you guys were wrong. You guys cant even name 5 GM's in the league and I ruined all ur arguments.

Keithinator normally I would agree with the old saying you just posted but these people are so one sided homers you just cant argue without making fun. Everyone on this site is a dork blogger loser and its clear by all of ur responses

Posted by: Anonymous | August 7, 2007 4:34 PM

real surprise I gave you ur list everyone/kalamora and you act like its not mine. You always ask for proof/stats to back statements so I gave them to u.

CONCLUSION

I was correct and everyone on the site was wrong except for mark but he flip flopped all over the place. Im going to take my basketball knowledge somewhere else b/c none of you have any idea what ur talking about. Im a homer but Im realistic u guys have blinders on.

Posted by: scoop | August 7, 2007 4:39 PM

That paragraph came out a bit wierd.

I guess my main point is that, seeing as Arenas was the most sought-after free agent on the market, it's not as big an accomplishment as finding a diamond in the rough like Redd. It shows well on Ernie, but I think most GMs would have loved to have Arenas, even though none of them exepcted him to be as good as he's become.

Kal, do you have any comments on the rest of the comment, or do you just ignore things you like?

Posted by: Pradamaster | August 7, 2007 4:48 PM

Whew!! We haven't really seen what Ernie Grunfeld can do until he can unload
Eddie Jordan. He has been trying to infiltrate a few defensive minded coaches from back in the day when he was in NY etc.

Eddie has refused on everyturn.

Once Grunfeld(The Gambler)has the ability to put "his choice" in the coaches seat - this once forgotten team will take off.

I have no doubt.

Hopefully, Eddie got his eyes examined, watched tons of tapes and met with some other progressive coaches. He's got a pretty good team on board. If they lose its due to his shall we say.."creative rotations." At least from what I've watched the last year.

Grunfeld has done his part and then some.

Posted by: Robin | August 7, 2007 5:27 PM

until the wizards put a bona-fide center in place ... they will be what they currently are ... a good team that can make the playoffs. Brenda shows up once in a blue moon. The stats that say Washington was 19-5 when Brenda started just shows how well the big 3 were playing at the time. Brenda gets up for certain, players and teams, most of the time, when he is on the floor ... you still don't see him ( hard to do for 7 feet, but he manages it). Etan ( i am alway hurt or just returning from being hurt and have to get the rust out ) doesn't help a lot. I rate EG above average for what he has done for the team. I rate Eddie above average. This team will not be much more that what they are until a decent big man is brought in. That's been our achilles heel for a couple of years now. If EG fixes that problem, then I will call him a great GM. Until then, above average, based on this Wizards team.

Posted by: JustAWizFan | August 7, 2007 5:37 PM

"I guess my main point is that, seeing as Arenas was the most sought-after free agent on the market, it's not as big an accomplishment as finding a diamond in the rough like Redd."

It's two different situations. He drafted Redd. he singed Gilbert as a FA. Gilbert was a proven quantity. Redd wasn't. I really don't see where one has any bearing on the other.

"Kal, do you have any comments on the rest of the comment, or do you just ignore things you like?"

I comment on the things I feel like commenting upon, positive or negative. I'm unaware of any standing "all or nothing" rule that requires me to comment on every single point made in every single post. Last I checked, this wasn't a sanctioned debate class with official rules of order. We're all free to discuss what we interests us and not discuss what doesn't.

If such a rule exists, however, perhaps you should post it for everyone to see.

Posted by: kalorama | August 7, 2007 5:57 PM

Kal, I didn't mean to sound combative. I didn't mean for it to come across that way, and for that, I apologize. I just want to know if you agreed with the rest of it, because you're one of the more reasonable Grunfeld defenders.

You obviously don't have to answer, but if prompted, it is common courtesy. If you were asked this question in person, it would be incredibly rude not to respond.

Posted by: Pradamaster | August 7, 2007 8:47 PM

ivan, its life, some people are just idiots! u think ur having problems why dont u ask barry how much hate mail he is getting! i bet barkley gets hate mail all year! so just continue to do u! i like that comment one of u guys made calling haywood BRENDA! thats hilarious! i cannot wait until october this is driving me crazy!

Posted by: Anonymous | August 8, 2007 12:36 AM

Nobody ever mentions Antonio Daniels in talk about our bench being better. It's good he is still on the team, considering he was our best bench player the past two seasons. He can back up both guard positions when either Arenas or Stevenson has to go out. He's actually the only guy they could count on consistently the last two years off the bench. He is very good at going into the lane and drawing the foul, which is a consistent way to score.

Posted by: Gakattack | August 8, 2007 10:59 AM

Gakattack, I liked Daniels. just not the other sorry souls they seem to choose to keep. Ok because height is hard to find so: keep booth, Ruffin Pech, Song, Blatche.

The rest...goodbye. My reasoning is thus:

When Gil, Caron went down - this was their time to shine..show what they could do and sorry they did absolutely nothing. Stevenson included. Why we're offering Taylor, Hall, Mason nearly a mil is unbelievable!! Each was making over $750,000 last yr just to sit & watch!!

Stevenson has an in because of Gil
Mason Hall - personal conx w/ EJ

Otherwise - there's no reason to keep & pay either a 1 Mil+ a yr.

Posted by: PeterJ | August 8, 2007 5:06 PM

Scoop,

I agree that Ernie is not a top 5 GM, but I do not agree that his only good move was Caron. Ernie has built a culture of winning here in DC within the constraints of a very tight pursed owner.

When Gil was a free agent, the entire league had a shot at him and he ended up in Washington. Did Gil flip a 32 sided coin?

And if we signed every player that has scored 40+ points against us we would be overpaying a bunch of mediocre players

I have read your comments objectively and the counters to them. By no means have you "won" these arguments just because you declare yourself the winner. Your best answer was the top 5 GMs (Although you could argue that Dumars got lucky that we were incompitent with Ben Wallace and Rip Hamilton).

Success begins at the top. Until the Wizards are a top five team (which they are not far from IMO), we do not have a top five GM. You don't go from being a perenial lottery team to a perenial playoff team by pure luck - unless you draft LeBron James.

Posted by: Joe | August 13, 2007 1:44 AM

The problem with boards is that so often the debate/discussion does become combative/defensive where legitimate points are overlooked.

I just read through the comments here as the EG debate is fairly interesting. What was interesting to me is that people who call themselves "true" Wizards fans would doubt what a great job EG has done. And yes, this is relative to the state of the franchise when he got here and what it had been for the previous 20 years.

Now, in Scoop's defense, he made it clear several times that he wasn't saying EG did a bad job, just not a top 5 GM. Truth is, top 5, not top 5, who's better... all very insignificant. The team is a perennial playoff contender with 3 all-star caliber players and a strong, young nucleus built around them. Is it all EG's doing??? No, of course there are other factors. But he's steering the ship, and so far his decision-making has led us in the right direction. And this past years draft and the Navarro trade look like positive steps.

Navarro: Look at the Sarunas J signing by the Pacers a few years ago. I was hoping the Wiz would grab him as he lit the US up for Lithuania a few years in a row and was the highest profile guard in Europe. I love Sarunas. Well, he couldn't find minutes in Indiana and then rode the bench for the Warriors last year. Point is, there's no guarantee with Navarro, he is unproven. Getting a 1st rounder for him was a coup, seeing as he was a 2nd round pick for us that we weren't going to sign. AD isn't great, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's a better fit for the Wiz than JCN.

Last thing, the fact that Kal didn't respond to Pradamaster after PM explained his previous post and clearly was making an attempt at a civilized discussion points to the problems with these boards. True, nobody knows the circumstances and I'm sure most of you felt exhausted by the back and forth at that point. But it almost feels like Kal was in defense mode and just said "I'll post when I feel like posting, not b/c somebody asks me a question?" Whatever. Boards are not like conversations in real life and people do hide behind their screens. It's a shame, and why I rarely ever post.

That said, it's great to have such a lively discussion of the Wizards and Ivan/Michael do an excellent job of coverage.

Posted by: Mike W | August 14, 2007 10:00 AM

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