Live from Altanta

Sitting courtside at half empty Philips Arena (feels like a regular season game) where the Wiz trail 44-41. After a hot start by the Wiz, the Hawks put together a nice little run that was keyed by rookie Al Horford (looks like he's gonna be a beast) and Josh Smith (all kinds of hops).

- Gilbert Arenas looked really good early by draining three of his first four shots and getting to the rim with burst a couple of times. He's cooled off since but is playing with more bounce than I'd seen in his first three games. I spoke with him before the game and he said the knee was feeling a lot better after he had it drained of excess fluid on Wednesday. He likened it to having a five pound weight taken off his leg. Eddie Jordan said Gilbert had his best practice of the season yesterday.

-Oleksiy Pecherov is out tonight with a bruised thigh (Gilbert just blew by Ty Lue and got to the rim again but missed the bunny) but everyone else is available.

-One quick note on the roster situation: Though I'm hearing that the team is preparing to play without Etan Thomas all season, don't look for them to try and use an exception to sign another player because the exception would count against the luxury tax and they are already very close to the tax as it is. I'm hearing that they will go into the regular season with 13 players and that includes Etan Thomas. That makes Mike Hall the odd man out. By the way, I hear that Etan was released from the Mayo Clinic over the weekend and is back home in Maryland. Hoping to see him soon.

- Gilbert just blew past Ty Lue again then flipped in a tough runner off glass over the long arms of Marvin Williams. He looks really good tonight. It's 48-48 at the half. More later.

By Ivan Carter |  October 22, 2007; 8:03 PM ET
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Comments

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It's a sad move that Les BouleS will probably decide to keep ET on the roster for luxury tax fears rather than eat the tax and bringing in someone on who can actually help them. Penny wise, pound foolish.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 22, 2007 8:28 PM

Ivan,
So through the better part of the 3rd quarter and both Arenas and Jamison are 6-16 respectively. The team is 1-6 from three point range. Why is this team struggling so badly to make shots? This is not supposed to be our problem. Maybe I am reading too much into this but it is unsettling. Was Gilber right...all of the defensive focus is costing us on the offensive end...not that I have heard too many great defensive plays by the Wiz tonight.

Posted by: Dr. Strangelove | October 22, 2007 8:49 PM

Tell me again why EG passed on JCN? Oh yeah, DeShawn S. plays a defensive stopper...on TV, but not really. The WIZ paid more for a player after bidding against themselves and he cannot hit a shot. JCN, by the way is killing and we have a number one draft pick that is so protected that we really have nothing. Imagine the rookie NY and JCN as your 2 guard depth. We are crazy and will live to regret the JCN move.

Posted by: Watching the bad chemistry among the starters | October 22, 2007 9:35 PM

I am not a fan of DCwoman00, he clearly hates/loves Gilbert, however; the kernel of logic is that Gilbert is the wrong kind of point guard to run the Princeton. While he has improved drastically in terms of his point guard functions, he simply does not run the team in appropriately. The big three take to many hard shots that often lead to easy shots for they opponents. I love watching basketball that is played well. Thus, I will be watching the 2nd unit (quarters 2 and 4) from now on. Even when they lose it looks like an attempt at team ball.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 22, 2007 9:43 PM

Tell me again why EG passed on JCN? Oh yeah, DeShawn S. plays a defensive stopper...on TV, but not really. The WIZ paid more for a player after bidding against themselves and he cannot hit a shot. JCN, by the way is killing and we have a number one draft pick that is so protected that we really have nothing. Imagine the rookie NY and JCN as your 2 guard depth. We are crazy and will live to regret the JCN move.

Posted by: Watching the bad chemistry among the starters | October 22, 2007 09:35 PM

your crazy and certianly not getting to see any games from MEM. Navarro is not killing anything he has had 2 great offensive games but there not telling you he has been burned on D. Another, O first D last post, enjoy losing. Simple and straight D will win you titles O will get you nothing.I agree DS hasn't been great but I'll take his D over Navarro's calbert chaney streak shooting anyday!

Posted by: the truth | October 22, 2007 10:02 PM

So DC Man88 - who is out there that you would sign?

ANYONE you sign will cost at least DOUBLE what you sign them for. You pay their salary + the dollar-for-dollar luxury tax + you give up the league Tax reimbursement.

So - you want to sign some stiff for $3M?
Ok, figure it out:
$3M for the Stiff's sallary
+ $3M for the Luxury Tax
+ $2.5M forfeit the League lux tax payment

You just spent $8.5M for a third string center. More than the Wizards are paying Caron Butler!

If you go after a decent backup, like Anderson Verajeo (assuming you could work it out with Cleveland) - it gets worse:
He wants $10M and a year for 5-years. (total hit would be more than $23M). Forget resigning Arenas if you do that deal, because you just blew your cap room for next year.

So again, I ask you DC Man88, who would you suggest that the Wizards sign?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 22, 2007 10:07 PM

your crazy and certianly not getting to see any games from MEM. Navarro is not killing anything he has had 2 great offensive games but there not telling you he has been burned on D. Another, O first D last post, enjoy losing. Simple and straight D will win you titles O will get you nothing.I agree DS hasn't been great but I'll take his D over Navarro's calbert chaney streak shooting anyday!

Posted by the Lie
____________________

Fallacy of arguements number 1="False choice." Defense or Offense. DStevensen's defense is overated, significantly. No one was willing to pay DS what we paid him, no one! What does that tell you? It is not about defense and offense if your defensive stopper is, well, not. Go sell crzy somewhere else

Posted by: Slam! Go sell crazy somewhere else | October 22, 2007 10:25 PM

Just leaving the "shoot-first, NO Defense, needs the ball to score" stuff out of it.... Here's something else about the JCN thing.

Stevenson played last year for the Veteran's minimum (just over $1M). He signed that deal knowing that he could become a free agent and get a better deal this year.


The Wizards had two priorities this off season:
1. Sign Stevenson to a reasonable contract
(and reward him for a good year - and
he DID have a good year!).
2. Sign Andre Blatche.

They had about $7.5M in cap room to sign both Stevenson and Blatche (after they signed their draft picks: Pecherov, Young and McGuire).

Everyone seems to forget that the Wizards were DEEP in negotiations with Stevenson (probably with a deal already having been offered) - When, by some miracle, Navarro's Spanish team decided to lower his buy-out to $3M, for a very limited time frame (nod, nod, wink, wink). They said they did it out of the goodness of their hearts! (my @ss). It's pretty obvious that the move was timed to make it impossible for the Wizards to sign JCN. He didn't want to play here, he wanted to play in Memphis with Gasol!

Ernie's only mistake was NOT that he didn't sign JCN, but that he didn't make the sleezeball stay in Spain!

Posted by: Rook | October 22, 2007 10:26 PM

"So DC Man88 - who is out there that you would sign?"

Anybody Les BouleS sign would be better than having a player on the roster that can't contribute because he has a heart condition. Can ET give you six fouls from watching the game in his living room?

As you read from Ivan, Les BouleS would probably not use the exception for ET purely for financial reasons. This goes to show again what kind of cheap franchise this is.

At least if they sign someone like James Lang or Sun Ming Ming, they can provide 6 fouls and at least a couple of boards. Where the heck is Reuben Boumtjie Boumtjie?

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 22, 2007 10:45 PM

Ernie's a businessman. Making the punk stay in Spain might have been satisfying, but taking whatever value could be had was better business. Granted, it's a lousy pick we got. But it's better than nothing and is a bargaining chip that can and will be used down the line. Which is probably about how Ernie viewed JCN in the first place.

Posted by: Prazak | October 22, 2007 10:49 PM

And I take that back: we don't know if JCN is a punk or not, just that his agent made a punk move and his club backed him up. In the end it was a good move the agent made, punk or not, which is what agents are paid to do.

Posted by: Prazak | October 22, 2007 10:51 PM

"It's a sad move that Les BouleS will probably decide to keep ET on the roster for luxury tax fears"

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 22, 2007 08:28 PM

Unfortunately, many NBA fans don't really understand the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Keeping ET on the roster has nothing to do with Luxury tax "fears". Rather, it is in the CBA (Collective Barganing Agreement) that a player is guaranteed a spot on the Roster once you sign him to a guaranteed contract. By the way, almost ALL NBA contracts are guaranteed, again as required by the CBA. There are a few exceptions like 10-day contracts, Non-guaranteed training camp contracts, etc... But in the main, once a player is signed, his contract is guaranteed.

Etan can be placed on the "inactive" list, but he still takes up a Roster spot. All NBA teams are required by the CBA to carry between 12-15 players on their roster. A maximum of 12 players can be declared Active, any remaining players on the roster (up to 3) are declared inactive.

Unless Etan is declared "Physically Unable to Perform" by an NBA doctor, or unless he retires (highly unlikely), he must remain on the roster - AND his salary counts against the Salary Cap and also against the Luxury Tax. The doctor must declare the player disabled, and unable to perform for the REMAINDER OF THE YEAR.

Once a player is declared "Physically Unable to Perform", the team can use an exception to sign another player. The exception is for 1/2 the disabled player's salary, or 1/2 the league average salary, whichever is lower. That exception does NOT count against the Salary Cap (hence the word "exception"), but it still counts for the Luxury Tax.

From what I've read, Doctors are saying there's a chance that Etan could play this year, so that rules out the "Disabled Player" exception - since he must be declared unable to perform for the remainder of the year.

Other exceptions:
Teams that are over the salary cap (and that includes the Wizards), can't just sign any player they want and pay the Luxury tax. They must use a Salary Cap Exception.

The Wizards no longer have ANY exceptions to use this year except the MINIMUM PLAYER SALARY EXCEPTION. Teams can offer players minimum salary contracts even if they are over the cap. So the Wizards could sign a player to a minimum salary contract, as determined by the CBA. Minimum salaries scale upward based on the number of years the player has been in the league: From a rookie salary of $427K to a 10+ year vet salary of $1.2M.

Posted by: Rook | October 22, 2007 10:56 PM

If the pick is bad, what kind of bargaining chip will it be. NOt a good one my friend. I know EG is God to some, but this god makes mistakes and this is looking like one in the early going.

Las Vegas agrees and they are the most accurate prognosticators out there. I see trouble in our future folks... A lot of jump shots, the same defense by our starters, etc. I see a change in the line up early, which may just save the season.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 22, 2007 11:05 PM

It's a no brainer that ET should be on the "physically unable to perform list." Are they holding out hope that ET's possible return towards the end of the season is going to be a difference maker? C'MON!!!!!

Management (e.g. ownership) would rather keep him there and not find a healthy body than pay another salary on the team with lux tax penalties.

I said all along that Les BouleS should have traded JCN to Atlanta for one of their bigs. They beat Les BouleS, granted only a preseason game, even without the Wizards killer, Zaza.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=271022001

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 22, 2007 11:08 PM

At least if they sign someone like James Lang or Sun Ming Ming, they can provide 6 fouls and at least a couple of boards. Where the heck is Reuben Boumtjie Boumtjie?

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 22, 2007 10:45 PM

James Lang is a 2-year pro. Minimum contract for a 2-year pro is $770,610.
Add the Luxury Tax of $770,610 + roughly $2.5 Million by giving up the NBA Luxury Tax payment - now you've spent more than $4 Million dollars for James Lang.

Posted by: Rook | October 22, 2007 11:08 PM

It's a no brainer that ET should be on the "physically unable to perform list."

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 22, 2007 11:08 PM

Maybe a "no-brainer" for you, but it's the NBA Doctors that have to declare him disabled; NOT the Wizards Management or Ownership. Once the Doctors declare him unable to perform, THEN the Wizards have the option to request an exception from the League. It doesn't work the other way around.

Also, it was reported in the Washington Post that Etan's doctor said he could be playing this year.

It's a moot point anyway. Even with Etan on the Roster, there are still a roster spot open (2 if you assume Hall is released).

With one (or both) of those roster spots, who would you sign to a league minimum contract? Please remember that you would have to DOUBLE the contract value, and add $2.5 Million for the Luxury Tax. Name a player worth the money you would be paying.

Certainly not James Lang... ($4 Million dollars)...

Is this Sun Ming Ming a real player? Last I heard, he could not run up the court without stopping to catch his breath. Assuming you signed him to a Rookie minimum contract, it would still cost $4 Million dollars - is he worth that?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 22, 2007 11:19 PM

Sorry - that last post was mine...

Also there was a mistake,

Signing Sun Ming Ming would cost roughly $3 Million (not $4 Million)..

Posted by: Rook | October 22, 2007 11:22 PM

"If the pick is bad, what kind of bargaining chip will it be."
Posted by: | October 22, 2007 11:19 PM

A 1st round pick is an asset. Package that pick with our 1st rounder, throw in Nick Young - trade the package to a team with a higher pick in the draft (Minnesota, Charlotte, Sacramento, ???), and select Roy Hibbert, 7'2" Center from Georgetown.

Posted by: Rook | October 22, 2007 11:28 PM

"A 1st round pick is an asset. Package that pick with our 1st rounder, throw in Nick Young - trade the package to a team with a higher pick in the draft (Minnesota, Charlotte, Sacramento, ???), and select Roy Hibbert, 7'2" Center from Georgetown."

And while you're at it, click your heels three times and say "there's no place like home, there's no place like home."

Seven foot Cs with scoring touch aren't exactly falling out of trees, so the odds of a team trading a pick that might net them one for a lower pick and a shot-happy gunner of a backup SG (which can be found falling out of trees) is pretty much nonexistant.

Which is not to say the pick they got for Navarro was a bad deal or it doesn't have value. That's not the case. But it doesn't have anywhere near that kind of value.

Posted by: kalorama | October 22, 2007 11:37 PM

Unless the Wiz suffer a major injury among the front line, they should be fine without signing anyone. And if they do suffer such an injury, anyone they sign will likely only be playing spot/garbage minutes while the other regulars in the rotation up their PT to fill the whole for whoever is hurt. Basically, whoever they sign will be nothing but a warm body in practice and long-term insurance on the bench. If they do need such a guy, they can wait until the situation arises to sign him. Given what's available, the quality of player they'd bee likely to get then won't be much different than what they'd be likely to get if they signed one now.

Posted by: kalorama | October 22, 2007 11:41 PM

Yeah - Kalorama, you're right.... Not many General Managers would trade a Mid-high 1st Round pick for two lower 1st Round picks and a former 1st Round pick. Mock drafts I've seen put Hibbert anywhere between 6th and 10th.

But here's a few names, high on my list, that Ernie should be talking to:
Kevin McHale (Minnesota)?
Danny Ainge (Boston)?
Isiah Thomas (Knicks)?

With those brainiacs, anything could happen!

Posted by: Rook | October 22, 2007 11:48 PM

I agree with you, Rook, and by the way thanks for the great faq on the CBA. Very helpful.

Under the circumstances the Wiz could not have signed JCN and Blatche without going over the cap and the tax. (Put aside whether the Wiz really need a second ball-hogging guard on offense and a backcourt sieve on defense.) JCN's agent waited until those circumstances came into being (ie, after the Wiz committed to DeShawn) and then sprung JCN's availability.

Under the circumstances Ernie had limited options: make JCN stay with his club in Spain and see him get locked up for another few years; give up on signing Blatche or otherwise restructure the roster to make room for JCN; or take whatever value he could right now, even if it's much less than ideal value. I think he made the right decision. Yeah it would have been nice to have packaged Etan's outsized contract into that trade, but apparently that's not what the market would bear.

Posted by: Prazak | October 22, 2007 11:48 PM

It continues to amaze me why any of you devote even a second of your time on that nitwit DC88....he is insane. Seriously. Do you all like writing to a crazy dude?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 12:07 AM

"James Lang is a 2-year pro. Minimum contract for a 2-year pro is $770,610.
Add the Luxury Tax of $770,610 + roughly $2.5 Million by giving up the NBA Luxury Tax payment - now you've spent more than $4 Million dollars for James Lang.

Posted by: Rook | October 22, 2007 11:08 PM "

I think it's easy to say James Lang is not worth that kind of money now since it's the start of the season and no more bigs have gone down yet. People's tune will change if/when people start dropping like flies and you end up with AJ and DSong manning the paint while thoroughbreds from Atlanta are jumping over them.

Sun Ming Ming may not be the second coming of Yao Ming, but you can't coach height, and this dude is a legit 7-8, and if he's got decent hands, for sure he can get a few blocks a game and clog the middle. Nobody thought anything of unproven Gheorge or Manute, and they made decent impacts in the NBA during their prime just by being tall dudes and altering shots.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 12:07 AM

"It continues to amaze me why any of you devote even a second of your time on that nitwit DC88....he is insane. Seriously. Do you all like writing to a crazy dude?

Posted by: | October 23, 2007 12:07 AM "

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

EVERYBODY has got to be a little insane on this blog if you're willing to spend time typing up stuff about Les BouleS that won't and don't amount to a hill of beans whether you have a good point or not!

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 12:11 AM

DC Man, you make sense on occasion, but sometimes the better side of valor is to shut up when you have no intelligent point to make. Now, you just look like an idiot pushing an argument (sign a stiff for a stupid amount of lux tax money) that no sane person would make. Clown forever: DC Man 88, until you finally fess up that Gil is an elite player, and the "bwahahaha" childishness. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Dork.

Posted by: DC | October 23, 2007 12:17 AM

"DC Man, you make sense on occasion, but sometimes the better side of valor is to shut up when you have no intelligent point to make. Now, you just look like an idiot pushing an argument (sign a stiff for a stupid amount of lux tax money) that no sane person would make. Clown forever: DC Man 88, until you finally fess up that Gil is an elite player, and the "bwahahaha" childishness. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Dork.

Posted by: DC | October 23, 2007 12:17 AM "

Yeah, I guess signing James Lang to that amount is almost as dumb as signing Gilby to a max contract. Both would be a waste of money.

Gilby is such an elite player that we've enjoyed years of playoff success since he's been with Les BouleS, especially when his elite self hit those 3 crucial FT's to seal the game against Lebron as Lebron whispered sweet nothings into his ear.

Anybody smart would set up a champagne and cigar store next to VC this season b/c Gilby is going to carry Les BouleS to the title this year.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! NOT!

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 12:31 AM

But here's a few names, high on my list, that Ernie should be talking to:
Kevin McHale (Minnesota)?
Danny Ainge (Boston)?
Isiah Thomas (Knicks)?

With those brainiacs, anything could happen!

Minnesota is in full rebuilding mode with a young team, a hole in the middle, and no franchise caliber player. They're not trading a lottery pick (which they'll almost certainly have) that could fill some of those needs for a couple of mid-first rounders and a backup SG.

Boston is most likely going to be a playoff team, so there's very little chance their pick will be much higher than the Wiz's, certainly not high enough for Grunfeld to trade 2 first rounders and Young to get it.

Isiah's tenure in NY has made it quite clear he likes to make a splash and go for big names. There's a difference between trading a potential lottery pick for a guy who could legitimately become a franchise caliber C (Curry) and trading a lottery pick for an unheralded 1st-year backup gunner of a SG and two mid-to-late first rounders (none of which will likely end up becoming stars).

Posted by: kalorama | October 23, 2007 12:41 AM

Hanging over the Washington Wizards season will be the decision Gilbert Arenas made back in June, that he would exercise the opt-out clause in his contract and become an unrestricted free agent next summer. It has made the front office a bit nervous, to say the least.

At age 25, Arenas wants to play for a team that can get to the NBA Finals. That chance could come in Washington this season, assuming the Wizards climb through a muddle of mediocre teams in the East. But it could be somewhere else, too, depending on what this long season brings.

"I want to test the market and test my value," Arenas says. "It's just a business decision. If something happens and they don't want me, or they're going in a different direction, I can look elsewhere."

Posted by: ESPN | October 23, 2007 1:30 AM

Gilby: "I don't want to be like KG or AI. They hamstrung their franchises by getting max contracts and their teams couldn't surround them with top talent and they went nowhere.

I want to be here in DC if they will have me. It's my first choice. They took a chance at me, and I owe them that. I want to win a championship here.."

This was a similar quote given by Gilby even before the quote posted by ESPN above.

Get ready to wish Gilby goodbye, and hope the door doesn't hit him on the way out. If EG is smart, he'll package Gilby out of here before the trade deadline.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 7:54 AM

This team is built for offense based on the personnel. personally, I think we're more suited to running. The Suns have proven that O works if you have enough talent and if you commit to it. people may argue that Steve Nash is the reason that that offense works. I think it's more D'Antoni than Nash although that system is perfect for a guy like Nash who's quick and a great passer. The Wiz just need to make a decision and stick to it. Establish an identity ! This concentration on Defense that we've been talking about for 3 or 4 years isn't gonna happen with the starters we have. Caron, Gil, Antawn didnt get into the league because they were good defenders in college. We need to either get defense-first players and bore the hell outta people in the stands and DEFINITELY win a lot of games. Or...we can run and gun and excite fans and POSSIBLY win a lot of games. We just have to commit to a style and do it. When EJ first got here, we were told that the Princeton offense would be almost unstoppable when it was learned and run correctly. We'd see backdoor cuts and there'd be no focus on one player. The ball would be distributed to whoever was open. Well, that hasn't happened. I vote we scrap that offense and go with an uptempo style. Ths requires rebounding (which we have as a group). We don't have the traditional beast rebounder in the middle but Caron, Antawn, Blatche, McGuire, Pech are all decent. Start Blatche at C and let's run or start Blatche at PF, McGuire at SF and Caron at 2 and lets concentrate on D. One or the other. If we run (and use our bench players like NY), we'd be hard to match up with. ..just my opinion.

Posted by: mark | October 23, 2007 7:57 AM

i agree that we don't need to add a player. Sun Ming Ming ? !! are you serious? We sign him so he can play the Peter John Ramos role? (Sit on the bench and suck up precious oxygen) no thanks !

Posted by: mark | October 23, 2007 7:59 AM

So what's the smarter move? Do nothing, leave that roster spot open, be shorthanded, and hope ET comes back from his heart surgery to average 10 and 10 this season?

I don't hear any other better solutions out there.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 8:04 AM

I'd imagine Dwight Howard, Bosh, Emeka Okafor, Curry, Zaza, etc are going to be eating our big men's lunch night in and night out. AB might have to step up to the 5 if BTH gets into foul trouble, b/c Opech will get beaten like a ugly redheaded step child.

I don't think AB will fare well against those guys. AB will be less effective playing his game if he's getting his salad tossed on the defensive end.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 8:07 AM

Can Sun Ming Ming even run up and down the court? I've heard he's slow to catch a breath.

Posted by: David | October 23, 2007 8:40 AM

Mark, it's not an "either"/"or" situation with defense. If you're an offensive team, it doesn't mean you have to ignore defense to establish your "identity".

The Wiz need to play a little bit better defense to become a top team in the East. They don't need to be Detroit, but they certainly have to put more effort into it than they have. If they can hold teams to 100 pts./game, not an unreasonable goal, and certainly not up there with top defensive teams, they'll likely win 50-55 games, assuming their offense performs roughly like last years'.

I think with our improved bench both of those things will happen. We're much bigger now with Blatche getting a more prominent role, Pech hopefully getting real minutes (providing bench scoring punch) and Songaila healthy.

Plus, if McGuire gets legitimate minutes, we've seen what an effective defender he can be. Additionally, Haywood will now (hopefully) get the 30-35 minutes he needs to be effective; not offensively, but defensively, where he does excel.

Posted by: Keithinator | October 23, 2007 9:03 AM

Gilby + Deshawn for Luol Deng...

Posted by: Nate Dogg | October 23, 2007 9:04 AM

I see Morrison is out for the season. do you think that team will quitely sit below the salary cap? If there is a deal to be made that would improve the Wiz, Abe should not get in Ernie's way--regardless of the lux tax issue. If he does, then if nothing else it sends a bad message to the rest of the Wiz players. Is Abe in this to win it all or not?

Posted by: oddjob | October 23, 2007 9:11 AM

dcman you are a complete idiot. Arguing over a 14 and 15th spot on a roster is completely stupid.

I'll take the flexiblity and 10 contracts all year long with those 2 spots.

Posted by: pg posse | October 23, 2007 9:18 AM

Abe will not go over the salary cap and pay the luxury tax. In that regard, he's like most other owners in the league; it doesn't mean he's cheap. He's right at the limit now, as Ivan has pointed out several times in stories. It's not like he's Charlotte's owner, who had trouble meeting the minimum salary floor last year.

I agree with those who have said that the 13th man on this roster will do nothing but get hemorrhoids from having his butt glued to the bench. If that guy's getting significant minutes, it's because the Wiz have serious injuries; if that's the case, like last year's playoffs, they're cooked anyway.

Posted by: Keithinator | October 23, 2007 9:25 AM

To oddjob: YES that team will sit under the salary cap because everyone around the league knows that Bob Johnson is the cheapest owner in the NBA. And I am not sure but I think if the Wiz sign someone later in the year, they won't have to pay a full years salary and thus save money so they won't go over the luxury tax. Even if that isn't true, doesn't it make sense to just wait? Here's what I don't get from you people that say the Wiz have to sign a player now in case of injuries: whose to say that its a big man that goes down? What if Antonio Daniels gets hurt in January, but you signed James Lang now. You won't have the room to add anyone later. Why not wait and see who gets hurt before you fill what is the last possible roster spot.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 9:31 AM

So what's the smarter move? Do nothing, leave that roster spot open, be shorthanded, and hope ET comes back from his heart surgery to average 10 and 10 this season?

I don't hear any other better solutions out there.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 08:04 AM

I think you're right DC Man88; I don't see any other beter solutions out there either. I think the Wizards are being smart holding on to those two Roster spots. I think they're hoping that someone will release a decent player when all the final cuts are made.

Although I admit I don't know a lot about Sun Ming Ming- like, is he even elligable? Can they just sign him, or does he have to be drafted? etc...) I think that both Lang and Ming Ming are just warm practice bodies, nothing more. Hardly worth the price. If they really get into a bind later in the year, they can always re-sign Massenburg. He's a warm body, knows the system, and could bring another 6 fouls a game. It's smart to release him now, since I doubt anyone will be picking him up, so he should be available later if they need someone.

Unlike you, I like the Wizards depth at Center: Haywood, Pecherov, Blatche, and Songaila can all play Center. Previous years, we had only Brendan and Etan. Even if Etan is done for the year, I think this year's team is in a much better position at Center than in previous years.

It's easy to sit back and say the Wizards "should have" done THIS, or that they made a "mistake" by doing THAT, but in the real world of the NBA under the CBA, it's much harder to do.

Anyone else out there know where the Wizards can find a decent big man willing to sign a contract for the League Minimum Salary?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 9:34 AM

Where is Calvin Booth? Any news on him? He can still fill up the last spot.

Posted by: Dave | October 23, 2007 9:52 AM

In EJ conmmets he didnt sound too positive with having to go with 12 guys in practice.

"If that's the way it is, we'll have to adjust," Jordan said. "We'll have to be creative if two or three people can't practice on a given day, so we'll have situations in practice where we can still work on things we need to work on."

Kinda like the DC fire Dept asking to fight fire with whatever water pressure is there....

IVAN-
Is EJ & EG on the same page?

Posted by: Big man | October 23, 2007 9:55 AM

Calvin Booth signed with 76ers over the summer

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 10:03 AM

"

In EJ conmmets he didnt sound too positive with having to go with 12 guys in practice.

"If that's the way it is, we'll have to adjust," Jordan said. "We'll have to be creative if two or three people can't practice on a given day, so we'll have situations in practice where we can still work on things we need to work on."

Kinda like the DC fire Dept asking to fight fire with whatever water pressure is there....

IVAN-
Is EJ & EG on the same page?

Posted by: Big man | October 23, 2007 09:55 AM "

EJ is the same guy who mused/complained last year about wishing he could attract better free agents but that he knows this team is on a tight budget. This is nothing new. EJ does not want to be shorthanded going into the season with a spot they can fill if the team wasn't watching the dollars so closely.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 10:12 AM

"If EG is smart, he'll package Gilby out of here before the trade deadline."

This has to be one of the most idiotic DCIdiot has made. IF EG is smart??? Appears to me the man has made a good living out of making SMART decisions...and you? What the hell are you good at? IDIOT!!!

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 10:12 AM

"Can Sun Ming Ming even run up and down the court? I've heard he's slow to catch a breath.

Posted by: David | October 23, 2007 08:40 AM "

I saw him in a couple of workouts, he looked like he can move. He's better after having his surgery.

I mean, could he be worse than Gheorge? At 7-8, his main job is to block shots and get boards, not be part of the offensive scheme. His height will allow the team to gamble and go on fast breaks, so maybe he won't need to run down the court at all!

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 10:16 AM

Ivan:
On the odd chance you make your way through the above "insight" to read this --

With only 13 healthy players, the Wizards have concerns about having enough players to practice, as Jordan indicated in the quote you ran today. Are there any rules that would prevent the Wizards from hiring someone like Massenburg as an assistant coach, and having him play when the team scrimmages in practice? And if they ever need a guy on a 10 day contract due to injury, he could resign as a coach and sign on as a player?

Thanks.

Posted by: Sean | October 23, 2007 10:23 AM

sun ming ming played for the ABA's maryland nighthawks. i attended a few games and he had his ups and downs. he has soft hands and a mid range game and can knock down his fts. hes a little soft but his conditioning improved drastically over the season. he was also in rush hour 3. i think ernie should give him a chance.

Posted by: wizfan87 | October 23, 2007 10:26 AM

dc88man/woman will not be satisfied until the Wizards is without Gil. You can argue with this person until the cows come home but until Gil is out of here he will continue to do just what he does. See, if Gil was to opt out then he would say he told us Gilbert was selfish. If Gil signs for any significant amount of money, he/she will still say Gilbert is selfish. There is no winning with this person. So, I would only respond to the remarks he make that are in line with the subject at hand. Otherwise, this whole post will be filled with vile and vulgar responses. In ten miniutes or less you will see what I mean so set your watches and watch what comes next.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 10:29 AM

Unless Philly cuts him Calvin Booth signed with the 76 er's.

Ming Ming hasn't even made it to a D league roster yet.

No way to get releif from Etan's contract this year under the Luxury Tax Cap that I've seen.

Grunfeld can use those last two roster spots to look for guys to play under 10 day deals. Since we're talking about players who most likely not dress anyway, we might possibly end up with something better then we have now.

If a player off of our first 12 would go down, Ernie might have to dip into that D league to find a solution. Since he doesn't have a crystal ball to tell him who might get hurt, it's probably best to wait for now.

No use and carrying a guy and ending up quarenteeing his money and then have to cut him to make room for a player needed at another position.

Posted by: GM | October 23, 2007 10:39 AM

Sean, basiclly the year that Ewing was here as an assistant coach when MJ played that was what everyone thought Jordan had him doing.

He was supposed to be working his way into shape to be activated in time for the playoffs without tearing himself up playing too much regular season.

MJ went down, we missed the playoffs, and Barkley could never lose enough weight to sign a contract, so ended MJ's dreams of a group of veterans coming out of retirement and stealing a title.

But it sure sounded good to all those guys one night over beer and Cigars!

Posted by: GM | October 23, 2007 10:50 AM

your crazy and certianly not getting to see any games from MEM. Navarro is not killing anything he has had 2 great offensive games but there not telling you he has been burned on D. Another, O first D last post, enjoy losing. Simple and straight D will win you titles O will get you nothing.I agree DS hasn't been great but I'll take his D over Navarro's calbert chaney streak shooting anyday!

Posted by the Lie
____________________

Fallacy of arguements number 1="False choice." Defense or Offense. DStevensen's defense is overated, significantly. No one was willing to pay DS what we paid him, no one! What does that tell you? It is not about defense and offense if your defensive stopper is, well, not. Go sell crzy somewhere else

Posted by: Slam! Go sell crazy somewhere else | October 22, 2007 10:25 PM

It doesn't matter how you look at it retard d wins not o. DS a better denfender than jcn period. We don't need another shoot first PG. Navrro isn't what we need.Ds was the best on the market we could afford. I'm not big on Mr 25% either but I'm not going to jeopardize the team a freakin streak shooter you can't defend a dead animal.

Posted by: the truth | October 23, 2007 11:27 AM

not you--- who can't defend a dead animal

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 11:28 AM

heres some more truth for ya!!!! Navarro NEVER had any intention of playing here. He wanted to go to mem all along

Posted by: the truth | October 23, 2007 11:29 AM

And That's the Truth!

And if we're spending time discussing worries about the 13th-15th slots on the roster. We must be looking at a much improved team.

Posted by: GM | October 23, 2007 11:35 AM

"And if we're spending time discussing worries about the 13th-15th slots on the roster. We must be looking at a much improved team."

Or we're just fans with too much time on our hands.

Posted by: kalorama | October 23, 2007 11:49 AM

Sun Ming Ming? Are you serious? If this guy is such a good pickup, how come no NBA team has ever even invited him to a training camp? He is a stiff, and would get destroyed in the NBA. Yeah he could block shots, but thats hard to do when you get out muscled down low, cant run, etc. This is lunacy.

I have no problem with keeping 2 empty spots. If the Wiz sign another guy, he would just be inactive, making it pointless. No free agent out there could have an impact on this team. Sun Ming Ming and James Lang???? You have got to be kidding me.

Posted by: Roman | October 23, 2007 11:49 AM

"I mean, could he be worse than Gheorge?"

Yes.

Posted by: kalorama | October 23, 2007 11:51 AM


In EJ conmmets he didnt sound too positive with having to go with 12 guys in practice.

"If that's the way it is, we'll have to adjust," Jordan said. "We'll have to be creative if two or three people can't practice on a given day, so we'll have situations in practice where we can still work on things we need to work on."

Kinda like the DC fire Dept asking to fight fire with whatever water pressure is there....

IVAN-
Is EJ & EG on the same page?

Big man, I got the same impression.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 11:54 AM

Is EJ & EG on the same page?

I think the appropriate question is: Is EJ and Abe on the same page?

Posted by: 2cents4wiz | October 23, 2007 12:03 PM

Tell me again why EG passed on JCN? Oh yeah, DeShawn S. plays a defensive stopper...on TV, but not really."

Lol, yeah that's what happens when you're good friends with Arenas. ;)

"And if we're spending time discussing worries about the 13th-15th slots on the roster."

I don't know many teams that play 13+ players every night. Injuries are another thing, like the Wizards last year. But those last spots are reserved for journeymen anyway.

"Or we're just fans with too much time on our hands."

Yup, I know I am. ;)

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | October 23, 2007 12:13 PM

Keithinator, I understand your point. It doesn't have to be either or BUT if you look at most good teams, they excel in one area and are average in the other. It doesn't matter how we do it as long as you consistently score more than your opponent. e.g. SA was 14th in scoring ppg but outscored their opponents by an average of 8+ points to lead the league in point differential. On the other hand, Phoenix led the league in scoring and outscored their opponents by 7+ to finish second in point differential. Dallas was third with 7+ while coming in 9th in scoring. I'm not suggesting we abandon defense. I'm just saying that i think our players' skills are optimized when we are scoring 100 points a game. We're not a team that can win with scores like 89-82. We should be winning 100-93. Princeton doesn't allow us to do that. It's hard to run without the ball so we definitely need to get better at rebounding but we have the team to do that now. The only thing we need to do to improve on our defense (in my perspective) and to get to 50 wins is close out on 3 point shooters. We give up too many open 3's. That's the defensive improvement I would focus on. We need ti stop dbl teaming the post and leaving guys wide open behind the line. trust our center and see what happens. better to give up a contested 2 than an open 3.

Posted by: mark | October 23, 2007 12:18 PM

"dc88man/woman will not be satisfied until the Wizards is without Gil. You can argue with this person until the cows come home but until Gil is out of here he will continue to do just what he does. See, if Gil was to opt out then he would say he told us Gilbert was selfish. If Gil signs for any significant amount of money, he/she will still say Gilbert is selfish. There is no winning with this person. So, I would only respond to the remarks he make that are in line with the subject at hand. Otherwise, this whole post will be filled with vile and vulgar responses. In ten miniutes or less you will see what I mean so set your watches and watch what comes next.

Posted by: | October 23, 2007 10:29 AM "

BOO!

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 12:28 PM

If the Wiz are $300K under the cap then why dont they keep Hall until the $300K runs out? he's a good practice player and he would be a good insurance policy.

The sooner Pesh understands that he will have to bang down low in the NBA he will be be more valuable to the WIZ.

He will not make it if he keeps shooting from out there. If that is his only game then they are in trouble....

Any other supporting member would cost too much....

Posted by: big man | October 23, 2007 12:34 PM

"sun ming ming played for the ABA's maryland nighthawks. i attended a few games and he had his ups and downs. he has soft hands and a mid range game and can knock down his fts. hes a little soft but his conditioning improved drastically over the season. he was also in rush hour 3. i think ernie should give him a chance.

Posted by: wizfan87 | October 23, 2007 10:26 AM "


Hallelujah!!!

Les BouleS may or may never fill any empty slots, but ask yourself if someone like Pat Riley or Phil Jackson were told that they can't fill open slots on their team due to lux taxes, what they would say.

Someone here is flapping their gums about the 13th or 15th player. Last I checked, ET's spot is for someone playing backup to the center position. That's not the 13th or 15th player on the team. He wouldn't be the last player off the bench.

GM should focus on his all hallowed All Star Team list, and stick to that to get his jollies.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 12:34 PM

Hope you had fun in Hotlanta Ivan!!

Happy to hear that Arenas is getting back to his superstar play.

Posted by: sports fan | October 23, 2007 12:37 PM

"if someone like Pat Riley or Phil Jackson were told that they can't fill open slots on their team due to lux taxes, what they would say."

I'm sure you meant to say "if Riley or Jackson were told they can't fill open slots on the team because they have NO exceptions to the Salary Cap left to use..."

One more time - Given the cap situation (ie: no exceptions to use EXCEPT the Minimum Salary Player exception) - Who would you sign?

Posted by: Rook | October 23, 2007 12:48 PM

"Les BouleS may or may never fill any empty slots, but ask yourself if someone like Pat Riley or Phil Jackson were told that they can't fill open slots on their team due to lux taxes, what they would say."

They can say whatever they want, but if the owner's not willing to open up the vault, there's not much they can do about it.

Posted by: kalorama | October 23, 2007 12:55 PM

Mark,

Isn't that exactly what I said? They just need to be better on defense, not great. I'll take average, for sure.

And I agree with you 100% on the need to clamp down on the 3-pointers. That's our big weakness, IMO. The Wiz love to sag off; you hardly ever see them closely follow shooters around the perimeter.

Re: another comment about the backup center: that will be Blatche and Pech, it's looking like, so it will be the end-of-benchers we're signing.

Posted by: Keithinator | October 23, 2007 1:08 PM

It doesn't matter how you look at it retard d wins not o. DS a better denfender than jcn period. We don't need another shoot first PG. Navrro isn't what we need.Ds was the best on the market we could afford. I'm not big on Mr 25% either but I'm not going to jeopardize the team a freakin streak shooter you can't defend a dead animal.
The Lie
__________
Buddy, the point I am clumsily trying to make is that you present a false choice, one or the other. It is simply not so, your pronouncements not withstanding. I agree the Wiz have to play better defense to win, but they also have to play offense as well. DS is an average defender at best. JCN is a superior offensive player at worst. Now you tell me, which one your gonna pay the a minumum rookie contract and which one you gonna pay 3 mill a year to. JCN has more value for what he gives and how much he costs. He does not have to start..shoot go out and find a better defender to start if you like. I know the Wiz could use defense and defenders, however; a nonshooting 2 guard with average defense for that many years at that salary... Stop praising EG and perhaps you could admit that other options were open. Shoot, I would even accept DS as at a lower price. And the that 1st round draft pick is a joke. It is so protected that we may never see it. Stop talking about it as if it really means something. It will have to packaged with a higher draft pick to add value.


Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 1:19 PM

DC Man88 wants us to sign Sun Ming Ming....


Here is some additional information about Sun Ming Ming:
He is advertised at 7'9", but in interviews he says he is 7'8". He is actually 7 ft 8 & 3/4 inches. If he ever plays, he would be the tallest player ever to play in the NBA.

Sun Ming Ming was declared eligible in the 2005 NBA Draft, and had a tryout with the Lakers, but they did not select him in that draft. It is also important to note that he was NOT selected in the draft by ANY NBA team, has never been invited to an NBA training camp, has had only ONE workout for an NBA Team (the Lakers).

He was never drafted by any NBA Developmental League team, and has never been invited to join a NBA Developmental League team as a free agent.

He was signed with a USBL team for a few months, and then released. Then he signed with an ABA team. The owner of the ABA team said he was signed because he "can sell tickets". Earlier this year he signed with Liga Nacional de Baloncesto - a "professional" team in Mexico. (not exactly a hotbed of talent!)

Here is a link to an interview on the Jimmy Kimmel show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxTsddUiY0I

He also muffed a dunk on that show.

Another link to an interview with Donn Nelson regarding his potential to play in the NBA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pj_jhwjhbU

Since he was declared eligible in the 2005 and the 2006 drafts, but never selected, any team may now sign him as a free agent.

His minimum first year salary would be $427K.

Posted by: Rook | October 23, 2007 1:34 PM

The Princeton hasn't stopped the Wiz from getting out and scoring transition buckets, or from averaging more than 100ppg. Weren't they something like 2nd in the league in fast-break points last year?

Even the Showtime Lakers ran lots of half-court sets. Eddie's Princeton sets open up plenty of seams and mismatches for our Big 3. Put a big man in the post who knows how to turn and shoot or attack the rim and the Princeton will be better yet.

And even the Showtime Lakers played some pretty good D. Doesn't mean they didn't run teams off the court, and playing solid D didn't cut their offensive output down to Detroit levels.

Playing good D, running up the score in transition, and executing crisp half-court sets are not mutually exclusive. I'd like to see the Wiz do all three instead of forcing one or neglecting another in the name of establishing an identity.

Posted by: Prazak | October 23, 2007 1:36 PM

I, for one, don't think that Grunfeld handled the Navarro matter especially well, but you've got to keep in mind that Grunfeld had a bunch of issues to juggle at the time:

1. The cap and the luxury tax limit.
2. The desire to improve the team defensively.
3. The timing of Navarro's announcement that he was free to come to the U.S. (And you wonder whether Navarro made that announcement only after he and his agent determined the Wizards could not sign him.)
4. The fact that Stevenson signed with the Wizards for one year at a rock-bottom price, allowed Grunfeld to cut Jeffries loose and save $$$, started every game, played well, and was described by Jordan as the most coachable player he has ever coached. Given all that, if Grunfeld didn't resign Stevenson, there would be ramifications with current Wizards players (i.e., "what do you need to do to earn some loyalty around here?") and future free agents. (I don't know who Stevenson's agent is, but that could have played a role also.)
5. Desire to close the revolving door that the SG position had become (Hughes, Jeffries, Stevenson, ?).

Posted by: Sean | October 23, 2007 1:52 PM

"His minimum first year salary would be $427K.

Posted by: Rook | October 23, 2007 01:34 PM "

That is a friggen bargain! Nevermind his baseketball skills or lackthereof, he has the Gheorge Muresan/Manute Bol quality that makes you want to cheer for him. And c'mon, VC has already cleared out most of Chinatown, he'll be the best thing going on in "Chinatown" even though that doesn't say much.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 1:52 PM

Anon,

DS is an average defender at best. JCN is a superior offensive player at worst.

I would challenge both of those points. We have no idea if JCN will be a "superior offensive player" until the games count for real. Maybe, maybe not. But you can't make that statement yet. And Stevenson is a solid defender, not "an average defender at best." And again, since people don't seem to be picking up on this subtle point: WE DO NOT NEED ADDITIONAL SCORERS. THAT'S NOT OUR WEAKNESS!

Posted by: Keithinator | October 23, 2007 1:52 PM

"

"Les BouleS may or may never fill any empty slots, but ask yourself if someone like Pat Riley or Phil Jackson were told that they can't fill open slots on their team due to lux taxes, what they would say."

They can say whatever they want, but if the owner's not willing to open up the vault, there's not much they can do about it.

Posted by: kalorama | October 23, 2007 12:55 PM "

Funny, take a step back. These classy coaches wouldn't work for a second rate organization like Les BouleS anyway, so they would never encounter this kind of problem to begin with.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 1:54 PM

"Funny, take a step back. These classy coaches wouldn't work for a second rate organization like Les BouleS anyway, so they would never encounter this kind of problem to begin with."

Tell that to Jason Kapono. One of the reasons the Heat weren't able to re-sign him was because they weren't willing to pay the tax on his salary.

Posted by: kalorama | October 23, 2007 2:05 PM

Every team in the league is trying to grapple with getting under the Luxury Tax. Guys like Riley that used to stockpile guys are having to adjust.

Speaking of Riley, he's going to have some interesting cuts to make since he has so many qaurenteed are partially qaurenteed deals there.

I'm not sure that all of Chinatown would turn out to watch Sun Ming Ming come out and sit on the far end of the Wizard's bench in some nice threads. Because that's what a 13th -15th guy does.

Even if he could play a lick, he would be almost totally a waste as a practice player. He couldn't give your starters someone to work against that would look anything like their next opponent.

Posted by: GM | October 23, 2007 2:29 PM

Today Post's article stated that Wizards would not apply for the exception for Etan Thomas for fear of going over the luxury tax threshold. If so, what exactly does this $3.7 million "exception" mean (i.e., exception of what)? Any team can go over the threshold anytime if they are willing to pay the luxury tax; you surely do not need an "exception" for that!

Posted by: Sagaliba | October 23, 2007 2:45 PM

They can get the exception to sign another player under the salary cap which almost every team is already way over.

The Luxury Tax Cap was put in place to be more of a hard cap and the exception doesn't effect that.

I think a player has to be out for a full year with a nonbasketball related illness before a team can even apply to get releif from a player's salary counting against the Luxury Tax.

Posted by: GM | October 23, 2007 2:56 PM

Even if they don't plan on using the exception, it's still worth their while to apply for it. Really, the odd of Etan being able to play this season are extremely slim, even if he does make a full recovery. I can understand not wanting to use it to sign someone off the street now, because pretty much anyone they get is going to be a scrub, bute there's always a possibility that something will come up during the season where they could use the exception for a player who becomes available from another team looking to cut salary.

It's a nice asset to have, even they only sit on it until it expires. Better to have the option than not.

Posted by: kalorama | October 23, 2007 3:04 PM

"Even if he could play a lick, he would be almost totally a waste as a practice player. He couldn't give your starters someone to work against that would look anything like their next opponent.

Posted by: GM | October 23, 2007 02:29 PM "

I guess Etan in spirit at the practices is a better option, yeah....

The Wizard of Westwood used to practice with a broom with Jabbar. Sun Ming Ming can be that human broom.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 3:10 PM

"Tell that to Jason Kapono. One of the reasons the Heat weren't able to re-sign him was because they weren't willing to pay the tax on his salary.

Posted by: kalorama | October 23, 2007 02:05 PM "

Do you think any other team in the league would pay Kapono what Toronto paid him? Not.

Two different issues. Paying a man's salary vs. paying above the limit and get taxed.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 3:13 PM

Playing good D, running up the score in transition, and executing crisp half-court sets are not mutually exclusive. I'd like to see the Wiz do all three instead of forcing one or neglecting another in the name of establishing an identity.

____

This is the point that I am making. They may be mutually exclusive to "today's player" but not to the game. With regards to the rating DS and JCN, fair enough if you do not agree with my opinion. However, while the Wiz were scoring points, their offense did not always look particularly crisp or efficient for that matter, thus; they are quite defensible. JCN off the bench would have fit nicely, and I am sure after a few games there will be a few other converts to this opinion. Especially, after DS begins the clanking of brinks off NBA backboards.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 3:15 PM

DS last year was a 40% shooter from 3-pt. range. That's not exactly bottom of the barrel. And I wouldn't mind if our second unit could actually get some stops, too. Would that happen with JCN? Or would it be a track meet to the basket, with Juan flailing at his man as he blows by him?

Posted by: Keithinator | October 23, 2007 3:25 PM

Sagaliba,
It is a salary cap exception. With it, they could sign a player for $3.7 million. Without it, they can only sign a player for the league minimum salary since they are well over the salary cap.

Posted by: Stephen | October 23, 2007 3:36 PM

"Do you think any other team in the league would pay Kapono what Toronto paid him? Not.

Two different issues. Paying a man's salary vs. paying above the limit and get taxed."

It is, of course, the exact same issue. Kapono was a FA whose Bird rights were owned by Miami. They could have matched any offer made to him. The reason Toronto overpaid for him was because they knew that in order to get him they had to make an offer large enough that Miami wouldn't match it because they didn't want to go into a luxury tax hole.

Posted by: kalorama | October 23, 2007 3:44 PM

i believe muresan and sun ming ming worked out when sun was playing for the nighthawks. muresan also suited up for a game for the nighthawks with sun ming ming. see www.marylandnighthawks.com

Posted by: wizfan87 | October 23, 2007 3:53 PM

Buddy, the point I am clumsily trying to make is that you present a false choice, one or the other. It is simply not so, your pronouncements not withstanding. I agree the Wiz have to play better defense to win, but they also have to play offense as well. DS is an average defender at best. JCN is a superior offensive player at worst. Now you tell me, which one your gonna pay the a minumum rookie contract and which one you gonna pay 3 mill a year to. JCN has more value for what he gives and how much he costs. He does not have to start..shoot go out and find a better defender to start if you like. I know the Wiz could use defense and defenders, however; a nonshooting 2 guard with average defense for that many years at that salary... Stop praising EG and perhaps you could admit that other options were open. Shoot, I would even accept DS as at a lower price. And the that 1st round draft pick is a joke. It is so protected that we may never see it. Stop talking about it as if it really means something. It will have to packaged with a higher draft pick to add value.


Posted by: | October 23, 2007 01:19 PM

I'm done talking with you. You have absolutly no basketball sense
in you at all. enjoy the football season!

Posted by: the truth | October 23, 2007 4:07 PM

Anon,

DS is an average defender at best. JCN is a superior offensive player at worst.

I would challenge both of those points. We have no idea if JCN will be a "superior offensive player" until the games count for real. Maybe, maybe not. But you can't make that statement yet. And Stevenson is a solid defender, not "an average defender at best." And again, since people don't seem to be picking up on this subtle point: WE DO NOT NEED ADDITIONAL SCORERS. THAT'S NOT OUR WEAKNESS!

Posted by: Keithinator | October 23, 2007 01:52 PM

finally, Someone who really understands we don't need O. This post is THE TRUTH!!! Some of you need to get this through your phoenix sun minds and step into a san antonio state of mind!!!!!


Posted by: the truth | October 23, 2007 4:12 PM

MORE TRUTH AGAIN!
NAVRRO NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER PLANNED ON PLAYING HER NO MATTER WHAT! HE WOULD NEVER SIGNED HERE FOR WHAT HE SIGNED IN MEM. GET IT THROUGH YOUR DAMN HEADS! HE GOT HIS BUYOUT ONCE HE REALIZED WE COULDN'T SIGN HIM

Posted by: the truth | October 23, 2007 4:16 PM

Anybody know how 10-day contracts count against the cap/lux tax?
My guess is Abe/Grunfeld are just going to fill roster spots 13-15 with 10-days as injuries dictate, which hopefully won't be needed.
So if anyone has solid info on how 10-days work...

Posted by: wisc. ave | October 23, 2007 4:34 PM

SO OKAY - HELP ME OUT HERE...

WIZARDS HAVE NO DECENT CENTER - Haywood
BARELY AVERAGE TO MID-RANGE POINT -Arenas?
LESS THAN AVERAGE, STRUGGLING BACK UP POINT

A NO. OF POWER FORWARDS?
Butler,song, Pech Blatche? Is that correct?
Small Guards: Arenas, Jamison, MacGuire, Young?? Hope I didn't forget anyone...

So tell me please - How much of a threat will this team be against a tough defensive
really serious championship minded team?

I'm new - just reading all this..

Posted by: ESPN | October 23, 2007 4:36 PM

I don't understand the argument that the team doesn't need more offense, so it makes sense to sign a decent defender instead of a very good scorer. If the Wizards could have picked up a pure scorer, let's say Kevin Durant, who would be a weaker defender, would you really want to have DeShawn Stevenson rather than Kevin Durant? I'm just trying to follow your logic.

If your answer is no, if it was someone as good as Durant, then Durant would be the choice over Stevenson, then your argument isn't really that the Wizards didn't need more offense. Your argument is that Navarro isn't as good as an offensive talent to warrant getting rid of a decent defender.

But finding decent defenders is a lot easier than finding gifted offensive players. See Dominic McGuire, for example. Would the team really be worse off starting McGuire and bringing Navarro off the bench? Heck, McGuire may have Stevenson's job before next season is over.

Posted by: Joe | October 23, 2007 4:38 PM

Joe,

It certainly does depend on the player. Yes, the Wiz need defense more than offense. But we're talking a small, weak-defending, older 2-guard here, and you're talking about the next great scorer in the NBA, and a guy with the size and versatility to play three positions. None of which JCN has. Apples and oranges.

We also don't know if JCN is going to be a good scorer. At this point, it's unclear. If he turns out to be a 20 pts./game scorer, but gives up 25/game, how does that help the Wiz?

Posted by: Keithinator | October 23, 2007 4:47 PM

For the record:
- the Wizards were a better defensive team with Stevenson off the court last season (Opponents were 2.1% better from the field, and scored 2.5 more points per 100 possession with Stevenson on the floor).
- on a 48 minutes/game basis, the opposing SG outscored Stevenson 20 pts/game to 17.9 pts/game. That's not the 20 pts. vs. 25 pts. hypothetical that you suggest for Navarro, but it's close.

Posted by: Joe | October 23, 2007 5:07 PM

I don't understand the argument that the team doesn't need more offense, so it makes sense to sign a decent defender instead of a very good scorer. If the Wizards could have picked up a pure scorer, let's say Kevin Durant, who would be a weaker defender, would you really want to have DeShawn Stevenson rather than Kevin Durant? I'm just trying to follow your logic.

If your answer is no, if it was someone as good as Durant, then Durant would be the choice over Stevenson, then your argument isn't really that the Wizards didn't need more offense. Your argument is that Navarro isn't as good as an offensive talent to warrant getting rid of a decent defender.

But finding decent defenders is a lot easier than finding gifted offensive players. See Dominic McGuire, for example. Would the team really be worse off starting McGuire and bringing Navarro off the bench? Heck, McGuire may have Stevenson's job before next season is over.

Posted by: Joe | October 23, 2007 04:38 PM

oh my god! Please tell me you are not comparing La bomba and Durant.Get a life,Yea if we could add someone like durant yes mainly because of versatilty but not because of scoring. also remember and the truth put it best, Jcn would never have came here so everyone should just give it up. nick young will be just as good of scorer as JCN in the end.

Posted by: jwc | October 23, 2007 5:09 PM

SO OKAY - HELP ME OUT HERE...

WIZARDS HAVE NO DECENT CENTER - Haywood
BARELY AVERAGE TO MID-RANGE POINT -Arenas?
LESS THAN AVERAGE, STRUGGLING BACK UP POINT

A NO. OF POWER FORWARDS?
Butler,song, Pech Blatche? Is that correct?
Small Guards: Arenas, Jamison, MacGuire, Young?? Hope I didn't forget anyone...

So tell me please - How much of a threat will this team be against a tough defensive
really serious championship minded team?

I'm new - just reading all this..

Posted by: ESPN | October 23, 2007 04:36 PM

first off Arenas is not mid range to barely avg. He is top 3 in the nba. Against really serious championship minded teams they prob won't be a threat but your only talking about San antiono. As far as the east they are to 2 or 3. U must be a spurs fan. There are not ture title contenders in the east.

Posted by: the truth | October 23, 2007 5:13 PM

MORE TRUTH AGAIN!
NAVRRO NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER PLANNED ON PLAYING HER NO MATTER WHAT! HE WOULD NEVER SIGNED HERE FOR WHAT HE SIGNED IN MEM. GET IT THROUGH YOUR DAMN HEADS! HE GOT HIS BUYOUT ONCE HE REALIZED WE COULDN'T SIGN HIM

Posted by: one again | October 23, 2007 5:16 PM

ESPN, it is true that the team has some issues and that some of the gang here have been drinking the cool-aid, but you really should do a bit of homework, come back, and rephrase your question. You're not even close in some of your statements. Jamison hasn't been a guard since third grade.

Posted by: Mitch | October 23, 2007 5:18 PM

But finding decent defenders is a lot easier than finding gifted offensive players. See Dominic McGuire, for example. Would the team really be worse off starting McGuire and bringing Navarro off the bench? Heck, McGuire may have Stevenson's job before next season is over.

Posted by: Joe | October 23, 2007 04:38 PM

Your stating defenders r easier to come by. What rock did you crawl out from? How many good defenders r in this league? Now how many good scorers r in this league. Everyone has offense because thats what puts you on espn.Not everyone has d because playing d gets you no attetion. Just ask Bruce bowen.

Posted by: the truth | October 23, 2007 5:20 PM

NAVRRO NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER PLANNED ON PLAYING HER NO MATTER WHAT! HE WOULD NEVER SIGNED HERE FOR WHAT HE SIGNED IN MEM. GET IT THROUGH YOUR DAMN HEADS! HE GOT HIS BUYOUT ONCE HE REALIZED WE COULDN'T SIGN HIM

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 5:21 PM

"Small Guards: Arenas, Jamison, MacGuire, Young?? Hope I didn't forget anyone..."

At 6'4" 220 lbs, Arenas is one of the bigger, stronger PGs in the league (along with Billups and Kidd). Neither Jamison nor McGuire are guards, ad at 6'9" 220 lbs, McGuire is a little above average size for an NBA SF these days.

Posted by: kalorama | October 23, 2007 5:34 PM

If decent defenders are so hard to come by, if DeShawn is a good defender, and if all teams are just dying to sign a good defender, how come Stevenson was begging for a minimum salary contract last summer? How come no other team was pursuing him this past summer? Just wondering.

And "Truth," what is your source for the point that Navarro was never going to come to DC? Did you speak to his agent or something?

Posted by: Joe | October 23, 2007 5:35 PM

MORE TRUTH AGAIN!
NAVRRO NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER PLANNED ON PLAYING HER NO MATTER WHAT! HE WOULD NEVER SIGNED HERE FOR WHAT HE SIGNED IN MEM. GET IT THROUGH YOUR DAMN HEADS! HE GOT HIS BUYOUT ONCE HE REALIZED WE COULDN'T SIGN HIM

Posted by: the truth | October 23, 2007 04:16 PM

Stop shouting! Although, I completely agree. I also think it's possible EG and JCN's people had a gentleman's agreement to wait until next year when EG has some cap space, and JCN's people violated the agreement and forced EG's hand. That might explain why EG appeared to be surprised by the JCN development, and why he sat on the Memphis trade for so long.

Posted by: reispace | October 23, 2007 5:38 PM

try looking into the situation, he wanted 3-4 a yr to play here and signed for under 600,000 to play in MEM. Not to mention Gasol, not to mention is agent kept throwing MEM out there as a destination. Anyone with half a brain knew he wasn't comming here and didn't want to. And the DS thing, there were other teams interested, he felt it was a better fit to come to wiz for a year than get a better contract. And last year because teams knew we were going to resign him. Look Your making it like I'm saying he is an allstar hes not and never will be. he is just a solid defender not great, solid. Have you ever watched JCN? Go watch him for a few games the good and bad and you'll see DS is 10x the defender he is. I'll take that over JCNs streak shooting any day.
We have scorers we don't have many defensive minded players thats why we resigned him. oh and DS did shoot 40% from 3 last year and 51% from the field. The playoffs he was asked to do more than he is. P.S navarro won't shoot that good this year

Posted by: the truth | October 23, 2007 5:51 PM

Maybe if the Wizards sign Ming Ming, he can bring along his boy wonder do-it-all friend Dantus to keep him company at the end of the bench. loser!

Posted by: ChiTownBaller | October 23, 2007 5:57 PM

I believe DS had a decent long-term offer from Orlando a season ago, in the same range as what he just got here. The problem was that he thought he was worth more, and when Orlando pulled the offer off the table he wound up out in the cold. That is why we basically stole him for slightly less that $1 million per season on a two year contract, with a player option, which he exercised this past June. I do not think we overpaid for him, he is pretty much at his market value and someone (e.g. Cleveland, Boston) would undoubtedly have come up with something in the same range.

As far as Muresan goes, before you compare him to Sun or Bol, look at his stats for 1994-95, which is I believe the playoff year when he played in the middle with CWebb and Juwan at the forwards, and averaged around 14 pts, 8 boards, and 2 blocks with a FT% in the 65-70 range. Brendan and Etan have never had numbers that good. Georghe was troubled by bad ankles after that one fine year, of course, but that season I think he was as close to the real thing as you can get.

The Wiz will be fine in 07-08 so long as Gilbert stays healthy.

Posted by: khrabb | October 23, 2007 6:39 PM

Wow. Ivan, got any response to Etan's complaints? He slammed you pretty hard.

Posted by: amalg | October 23, 2007 7:05 PM

Muresan also led the nba in field goal% one of those years

Posted by: the truth | October 23, 2007 7:08 PM

Like Amalg, I was going to ask you the same question, Ivan. I think Etan is way off base here -- if you want the press to report the facts instead of speculating on possibilities, then you have a responsbility to tell the press the facts, which Etan and the Wizards did not do -- but this wouldn't be the first time Etan shot off his mouth. But am interested in your thoughts.

(By the way, I thought it interesting that he criticized the Post for comparing his situation to others, and then he talked about how he spoke to Hoiberg and Turiaf about their situations, two guys you mentioned in your stories.)

Posted by: Sean | October 23, 2007 7:24 PM

DC Man 88: you got the broom story twisted up a bit. It was DeMatha Catholic High School coach Morgan Wootten who used a broom to prepare his team for playing against Lew Alcindor. It apparently worked because DeMatha beat Alcindor's team, Power Memorial, ending a 71-game winning streak.
(http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/basketball/2002-11-06-wootten-retire_x.htm ) I seem to remember that North Carolina coach Frank McGuire used the same trick to get his team ready for Wilt Chamberlain in the NCAA title game.

I don't see why the Wizards need to sign another 5. All Pecherov needs is a few mornings a week in the weight room to make him into a decent NBA center. Right now, he's jacking up too many three pointers, but the dude has some nice low post moves when he puts his mind to it. He's got much better ups than I had expected he would, and he's very aggressive on the boards.

Posted by: John Brisker | October 23, 2007 8:49 PM

Hey Sean and amalg - did I miss an interview or something. Where did Etan "complain" and criticize the Post coverage?

Must have been on Television, cuz I missed it.

Posted by: Rook | October 23, 2007 9:21 PM

Like Amalg, I was going to ask you the same question, Ivan. I think Etan is way off base here -- if you want the press to report the facts instead of speculating on possibilities, then you have a responsbility to tell the press the facts, which Etan and the Wizards did not do -- but this wouldn't be the first time Etan shot off his mouth. But am interested in your thoughts.

(By the way, I thought it interesting that he criticized the Post for comparing his situation to others, and then he talked about how he spoke to Hoiberg and Turiaf about their situations, two guys you mentioned in your stories.)
_______

I made this same point regarding posters to the blog that some how knew Etan's medical situation. Furthermore, Etan is not under any responsibility to report his personal business to the Post or anyone else for that matter. The Post, however, does have a responsibility to ensure that they are reporting facts and analysis based on facts. It is near impossible to compare one situation to another without any evaluation of both medical situations. The fact that Etan talked to those guys does not mean the Post should have compared their situations to Etan's, especially without sufficient info about Etan's situation.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 9:24 PM

"DC Man 88: you got the broom story twisted up a bit. It was DeMatha Catholic High School coach Morgan Wootten who used a broom to prepare his team for playing against Lew Alcindor. It apparently worked because DeMatha beat Alcindor's team, Power Memorial, ending a 71-game winning streak.
(http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/basketball/2002-11-06-wootten-retire_x.htm ) I seem to remember that North Carolina coach Frank McGuire used the same trick to get his team ready for Wilt Chamberlain in the NCAA title game.

I don't see why the Wizards need to sign another 5. All Pecherov needs is a few mornings a week in the weight room to make him into a decent NBA center. Right now, he's jacking up too many three pointers, but the dude has some nice low post moves when he puts his mind to it. He's got much better ups than I had expected he would, and he's very aggressive on the boards.

Posted by: John Brisker | October 23, 2007 08:49 PM "


YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS........

I think having a big guy like Sun Ming Ming, who's not going to cost that much, should help. Not only that, it's going to draw a lot of fan interest.

Muresan, when he was here, probably altered more shots than he actually blocked. I think Sun could do the same thing.

I don't think OPech is the solution for the 5. He's like most euros, in that they like to shoot and face the basket. Plus, he'll need a lot more work with his footwork and holding his position in order to contend with guys like DHoward, Okafor, Shaq, Mourning, Zaza, etc.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 9:44 PM

"At 6'4" 220 lbs, Arenas is one of the bigger, stronger PGs in the league (along with Billups and Kidd). Neither Jamison nor McGuire are guards, ad at 6'9" 220 lbs, McGuire is a little above average size for an NBA SF these days.

Posted by: kalorama | October 23, 2007 05:34 PM "

Gilby may be bigger and stronger than most guards, but Gilby does not play a physical game. Both Kidd and Billups are very physical and defense oriented. Also, they have thicker, stockier builds. Gilby has thin bones.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 23, 2007 9:48 PM

I think the Wiz just need to "play" this year and whatever happens, happens.

They are what they are, as frustrating defensively to watch as they are sometimes.

I think the JNC thing WILL come back to hauint the Wiz though.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | October 23, 2007 9:48 PM

Never mind- I found the interview on realgm.com

Posted by: Rook | October 23, 2007 9:56 PM

Read the article at realgm.com, anonymous, and go back and look at what Ivan wrote. I don't see anything Ivan wrote that is remotely objectionable. Etan complained that the Post recklessly compared his situation to others like Jason Collier. Ivan wrote that the NBA has been more careful about heart issues after Jason Collier died. Not very good reading comprehension there, Etan.

Posted by: Sean | October 23, 2007 10:01 PM

what about signing Danny Fortson? If waived, D. Nichols from the knicks? Still costly if minimum salary puts wiz over the lux tax threshold.

Posted by: wizfanatic | October 23, 2007 10:02 PM

The Wizards no longer have ANY exceptions to use this year except the MINIMUM PLAYER SALARY EXCEPTION.

Posted by: Rook
---------------------------------------------
I remember during the off-season Ivan talked about Wizards planned to use veteran's exception (something like 1.8 mil) on Booth. I don't recall Wizards ended up using that exception. What happens to it? (I am not saying Wizards should sue it, just wonder what happens to that particular "exception!")

Posted by: Sagaliba | October 23, 2007 10:07 PM

DCman, quit the Sun Ming Ming thing here, you are looking nutty. There is a reason he hasnt even had a sniff of an NBA camp. If you think he could come in and make an impact your a lunatic. Players would run circles around him, the centers on every team would shove him into the 5th row, etc. It is an absurd idea.

Posted by: Roman | October 23, 2007 11:18 PM

DC Man88: I'm not saying Pech is a solid 5 right now, but I think he could become a pretty decent one in the course of a season. Sure, he's used to facing the basket, but a big guy with that much quickness and agility could easily learn to play in the low block. He doesn't have the muscle yet to bang for position, but that's why there's a weight room at Verizon Center. (Look how much stronger AB got over the summer--when he wasn't chasing hookers, he obviously was pumping some iron.) I'd say that Pech has way more upside than Haywood, who still doesn't have a reliable money move in the post after six years in the league.

btw, I love it when EJ has AB and Pech in there at the same time. Both of them are good ballhandlers and can hit the open j or get to the rim, so it's pick your poison. AB is starting to turn into a pretty sharp passer, so Pech is going to get his share of wide-open looks.

Posted by: John Brisker | October 23, 2007 11:27 PM

PLEASE IGNORE DC MAN88. DO NOT RESPOND TO HIM OR ACKNOWLEDGE HIM. HE IS a racist, RUDE, VULGAR, AND MOST OF HIS POSTS ARE INAPPROPRIATE TO THIS BLOG.

What is all this "DC Man88: What do you think about..."? Did they let the inmates get Internet access? Or the wards at the insane asylum?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 11:31 PM

You guys are the biggest losers on the planet for responding to DC Racist88.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 11:33 PM

DCIdiot once again proves what a moron he is with this remark "Gilby has thin bones"

How the hell do you know how thick or thin Gilbert's bones are? You do not. What an idiot!

Posted by: Anonymous | October 23, 2007 11:41 PM

"I remember during the off-season Ivan talked about Wizards planned to use veteran's exception (something like 1.8 mil) on Booth. I don't recall Wizards ended up using that exception. What happens to it? (I am not saying Wizards should sue it, just wonder what happens to that particular "exception!")"

Nothing happens to it. Teams, even teams over the cap, can sign players to the vet minimum at any time. But the Wiz won't use it for the same reason they won't use the medical exception they can get for Etan's injury: it would put them over the tax threshold.

Posted by: kalorama | October 23, 2007 11:45 PM

"How the hell do you know how thick or thin Gilbert's bones are? You do not. What an idiot!

Posted by: | October 23, 2007 11:41 PM "

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Look at JKidd and Billups build vs. Gilby's. The former two have solid thick builds while Gilby looks like a waifish model compared to them. Gilby is more lanky while the other two dudes are more stocky and solid.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 24, 2007 12:00 AM

"DC Man88: I'm not saying Pech is a solid 5 right now, but I think he could become a pretty decent one in the course of a season. Sure, he's used to facing the basket, but a big guy with that much quickness and agility could easily learn to play in the low block. He doesn't have the muscle yet to bang for position, but that's why there's a weight room at Verizon Center. (Look how much stronger AB got over the summer--when he wasn't chasing hookers, he obviously was pumping some iron.) I'd say that Pech has way more upside than Haywood, who still doesn't have a reliable money move in the post after six years in the league.

btw, I love it when EJ has AB and Pech in there at the same time. Both of them are good ballhandlers and can hit the open j or get to the rim, so it's pick your poison. AB is starting to turn into a pretty sharp passer, so Pech is going to get his share of wide-open looks.

Posted by: John Brisker | October 23, 2007 11:27 PM "

I think OPech could evolve to become a decent 5 if he wants to do it or they make him do it. I just think he prefers to play facing the basket. Whenever he jacks up a long ball, I think to myself that no way EJ designed the play to have him do that.

He may be better suited as a 5 if he played in the West coast as opposed to the East where the 5's are probably more physical. Playing the 5 is a lot about heart as it's about ability. Ben Wallace is small for the 5, but can do it, while Kwame B. has the size, but not the heart.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 24, 2007 12:05 AM

"A waifish model"??? DC boy's got a serious jones for Gil...

Posted by: Anonymous | October 24, 2007 12:09 AM

"

"A waifish model"??? DC boy's got a serious jones for Gil...

Posted by: | October 24, 2007 12:09 AM "

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

If I had a "jones" for Gilby, I'd be on this blog like you claiming he's the best thing since sliced bread, an elite player, and "we should be honored to have him here while he's here." Sooo funny!!!!

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 24, 2007 1:07 AM

"I talked to Ernie after the game and he said he was not caught off guard by the timing of Navarro's release-at the same time as Stevenson negotiation---in fact sounded to me like Ernie's only concern was making a deal to get something.. that Navarro was not a player he was looking to add to this roster"

From Dave Johnson, WashingtonWizardsBlog.com

Posted by: David | October 24, 2007 1:21 AM

DC LUVSGil88

Posted by: Anonymous | October 24, 2007 1:49 AM

DC dont hate on Kwame.

Posted by: Kwame | October 24, 2007 7:33 AM

DC: Thin bones? Sorry I am not a med student. What does this even mean???

Posted by: calcium deficient | October 24, 2007 7:37 AM

I still don't buy the argument that D wins championships and O fails. We've been fed that line in football as well as basketball but it's just not true. We won't start to see teams go away from that til a running team wins again. In football, the Colts won it last year. The Patriots will probably win it this year. OFFENSE ! The Suns would have at least made it to the Finals if not for a bad call. International basketball caught up with the US teams not because they play D. They caught up because they have 5 players on the court at one time who can all shoot 3's. The real truth is...there are MAYBE 3 shut down perimeter defenders in this league. Everybody else relies on help from a teammate. To help a big, collapse a small for the dbl team. To help a small, a big steps in as the last line of defense. Defensive rebounding is something we have to get better at. Not giving up open 3's is something we have to get better at. We are NOT a defensive team. Excelling in an area of a game IS mutually exclusive, I think. You can be proficient in one area but I think it's physically impossible to be great at both O and D. The NBA champs for the last 20 years have been great at one thing and pretty good at the other barring a few teams. Most have been great at D and that's what's swayed opinions and created the perception that D is the only way to win. I guess my point is that we should tailor the game to your personnel. In football, this makes no sense because contracts are not guaranteed and the turnover is higher. But since we know that we'll have these offense-first players for a while, put them in a position to succeed. RUN ! If we did that, our best starting lineup is Gil, Caron, McGuire, Antawn, Blatche at the 1,2,3,4,5. All of them but Twan can handle the ball and go coast to coast. All but Blatche can shoot 3's. All but Gil are above average rebounders. Who could keep up with that squad?

Posted by: mark | October 24, 2007 7:47 AM

...with Daniels, Nick Young (who may be better than DS right now), Songaila, Pech and Haywood as the second team. That's also a solid squad with some scoring punch.

Posted by: mark | October 24, 2007 7:54 AM

I'd agree with John Brisker that Pecherov has the ability to be the answer at the center position down the line. And remember the kid's still growing and is already a legit 7'now.

And when you see Blatche and Pecherov on the court together they seem to have a nice two man game going at times. It looks good for the Wizards future to have two young bigs with these guy's skills.

Pemember they're both really young for big guys, so they will need time to develop. They're going to put up good games and then look lost the next night.

But I'd expect Blatche to be more consistant this year because it's his third year. Looking at the history of the High School to the NBA guys it's taken most a couple of years before they get their feet on the ground in the NBA.

Eddie Jordan took alot of heat about appearing to bury Blatche at times last year. If he was sending the message that the kid needed to work harder to be an NBA player, it appears to have worked. Blatche looks to have spent time this offseason in the weight room and on his game.

What he has improved most is his post moves and positioning on rebounding. Seems like he's finally using his size, quick hops, and long arms around the rim where those skills the kid has can be devastating.

Interesting that Young is averaging over 9 points a game in preseason. The kid's got some learning to do to pickup the NBA game, but boy does he have a sweet shot. And given a seam he can explode to the rack.

Eddie may have to give him a little of his Blatche "tough Love" to get him to grasp playing defense, but the kid's got talent. It will be interesting to see how Jordan can work at bringing along four young talented players like he has this year.

Happened to be watching the NBA channel last night and they were doing a peice on Deng and Arenas's offseason workouts. Intersting to see the different things their trainers had them doing.

Never thought about flipping a tractor tire around to improve jumping ability. And Damn, we had those things just laying around the farm when I was a kid and I never flipped one over even once!

Posted by: GM | October 24, 2007 8:12 AM

"DC: Thin bones? Sorry I am not a med student. What does this even mean???

Posted by: calcium deficient | October 24, 2007 07:37 AM "

Take a look at a picture of Shaq, and take a look at a picture of Dikembe Motombo. Both are about the same height, but opening your eyes will reveal that Shaq has a thick, stockier build, while Deke has a lankier build.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 24, 2007 8:35 AM

Again what an idiotic statement:

"Take a look at a picture of Shaq, and take a look at a picture of Dikembe Motombo. Both are about the same height, but opening your eyes will reveal that Shaq has a thick, stockier build, while Deke has a lankier build."

People have different builds - just because they are lankier does not mean that their bones are "thinner." Can't stop laughing at that one.


Posted by: Anonymous | October 24, 2007 9:03 AM

GM, you wasted all those good tires without a single flip? Where's your dedication? Slacker! I guess that exercise is good for the quads and the back ...kinda like a power squat. I heard Barkley say once that he used to jump back and forth over a fence in his back yard when he was a kid just to improve his leaping ability. I suppose there's no one way to train. I missed the piece of Gil but I'm sure that what he did will work out.
On one of my knees, I've had a cartilage tear, ACL reconstruction, couple of scopes, microfracture (which failed, btw) as well as ACI surgery (Autologous Chondrocyte Implantation) where they take some cartilage cells out of your knee, grow them in a lab and implant them to cover up bare spots where you've worn the cartilage out. Needless to say, I'm pretty familiar with knee problems. That's why if I was Portland, I'd be scared to death that my guy has 'lesions' already at 20 years old. He will definitely have issues down the road at some point. It's just a matter of time. Gil should be fine, though. I'm 40+ and able to run and jump again. I can touch the rim but can't dunk anymore but that could be due to my advanced age. ;) With his work ethic and facilities available to him, I have no doubt he'll be the same player he was before.

Posted by: mark | October 24, 2007 9:05 AM

Low bone mass (osteopenia) is not a normal condition. Human bone density and mass are generally the same (by gender, etc.) unless you have osteopenia or osteoporosis, which decreases bone density.
I'm not a doctor but I've watched 'ER' a few times.

Posted by: mark | October 24, 2007 9:10 AM

"However, the Wizards are unlikely to use the exception and probably will carry 13 players on the regular season roster because they are close to the luxury tax threshold"

That's just sad. With that exemption (3.7mil) we could add a good player to what we have. That could make a huge difference. It's just frustrating to have an ownership that is obviously so much more concerned about money than they are about winning. It's still the same old Bullets. We will always be a 2nd class franchise.

On another note. I wanted to mention that tonight's game vs Detroit is broadcast on CSN+ channel 669 for anyone who has DirectTV.

Posted by: Darnell | October 24, 2007 9:26 AM

Darnell, who would you add to this roster that would affect the team or outcome of any games? Assuming you want to add a big man, who's out there that would get any time?
Q: What do Lang, Booth, PJ Ramos have in common?
A: They were all 3rd string centers who got NO time in games and had no affect on the team record.
I guess I'm not understanding why folks are so worked up about us going with a 12 man active roster. If more than 2 guys are hurt to the point that they can't practice, we have more things to worry about than finding bodies.

Posted by: mark | October 24, 2007 9:40 AM

"If more than 2 guys are hurt to the point that they can't practice, we have more things to worry about than finding bodies."

Exactly Mark. I guess people would rather just spend the money cuz its there, than realize that it makes more sense to bank it until someone worthwhile comes along.

I mean guys demand trades in the middle of EVERY season. For once I think we might have to chips to swing a deal. Lets not blow it on some third string C so Haywood can have a practice partner.

Posted by: The Owl Wizard | October 24, 2007 10:02 AM

Mark, it's kind of sad when you do your own question-and-answer and still get the answer wrong:

Q: What do Lang, Booth, PJ Ramos have in common?
A: They were all 3rd string centers who got NO time in games and had no affect on the team record.

That was true of Lang and Ramos but not Booth. Booth got significant PT last year and was a factor in several games. Booth is an established NBA player which one couldn't say about the other 2.

Posted by: Mitch | October 24, 2007 10:21 AM

I'd assume that we may dip into the D-league from time to time and sign some guys to some 10 day deals.

Not a bad way to scout some younger talent and have a warm body to practice or even a guy to dress if someone gets nicked up.

Not using the exception now retains some flexibility and is holding open the chance of a comeback for Etan. If later in the year it doesn't look like he can make it back Ernie would still have that card to play.

Can the medical exception, if it is acquired, be used like a trade exception and traded?

Just wondering, there have been some deals recently where teams have been willing to give up players and or picks to acquire a trade exception.

Not thinking so much now, but if Etan never plays this season and would retire I'm wondering if a medical Exception is tradable or if it can be combined with another Exception like the MLE.

Mark,What Deng's trainer had him doing was flipping larger and larger tires. To lift them he had to get in a jumping postion and explode upward. Kind of an interesting training device to see in a weight room.

Deng and Arenas are really conditioned, the interesting thing about Arenas's trainer was that he was talking about how quickly Arenas would gain strength. His big concern was in keeping Arenas from getting too bulky and strong.

I'd agree with you, Arenas's injury as far as knees go is one of the easier things to recover from. And I'd worry too if I was Portland's management.

Looking at Arenas train, I'd say he could have been a talented defensive back or wide receiver in football. The guy is just a good athelete, no bones about it!

Posted by: GM | October 24, 2007 10:36 AM

Mitch, I was there for the home games and watched every away game that was televised and I saw Booth get some PT. I was kinda exaggerating about NO pt for him. If u took a poll here on this blog, I'd be willing to bet that no one who saw him believes that he had a positive impact on any games or affected the outcome. He averaged 8 minutes, less than 2 points and less than 2 rebounds. In the playoffs, he got a season high 18 minutes in one game and had 4 points and 4 reb in a 7 point loss. He only had 2 games of note last year. He got 11-11 in a 14 point win against Milwaukee and he got 8-8 in a 7 point win against Philly ( he held dalembert to 11 points and 17 rebounds in that game). Now ask yourself again. Was my answer really wrong?

Posted by: mark | October 24, 2007 10:42 AM

Mark why did the colts win last year? Because their D steped up in the playoffs. And hello the Pats have a good D but they have not won a title yet this year.In any sport it doesn't matter. D wins titles.O will get you far but not as far as D. Your statement of O over D has to be the most ludicris statement ever. I've been envolved in sports for going on 50 yrs I can't remember at any level where a good O beat a good D. Personaly I would say you know nothing about sports.Find me a basketball team with no defense that has won a title, you can't why because defense wins championships!!!

Posted by: Gary | October 24, 2007 10:48 AM

"That's just sad. With that exemption (3.7mil) we could add a good player to what we have. That could make a huge difference. It's just frustrating to have an ownership that is obviously so much more concerned about money than they are about winning. It's still the same old Bullets. We will always be a 2nd class franchise."

Almost every team in the NBA (with the possible exception of the Knicks and Mavs) is worried about avoiding the luxury tax. The idea that the Wiz are somehow miserly penny-pinchers in a league full of free spenders is pure bunk. They're over the cap and just below the tax threshold. That's not a place a team gets to by not spending money.

Posted by: kalorama | October 24, 2007 10:58 AM

I thought Booth was effective in a few games last season when he played. He just did not get much playing time. I am not at all surprised by his performance now. I actually thought the Wiz were going to offer him a contract. At one time, it seemed that way. He was much more effective than Ruffin.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 24, 2007 11:01 AM

"Almost every team in the NBA (with the possible exception of the Knicks and Mavs) is worried about avoiding the luxury tax. The idea that the Wiz are somehow miserly penny-pinchers in a league full of free spenders is pure bunk. They're over the cap and just below the tax threshold. That's not a place a team gets to by not spending money.

Posted by: kalorama | October 24, 2007 10:58 AM "

Nobody wants to go over the salary cap if they already have a full staff. But, if a team is a man short (assuming ET is determined by his doctor as unable to play), and if Les BouleS won't have the services of ET and don't want to fill it b/c of $$$, then that's plain cheap!

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 24, 2007 11:08 AM

"Looking at Arenas train, I'd say he could have been a talented defensive back or wide receiver in football. The guy is just a good athelete, no bones about it!

Posted by: GM | October 24, 2007 10:36 AM "

Uh, flag football maybe, not full contact football. Gilby would break like a twig. He's already had multiple injuries during his few years here already.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 24, 2007 11:10 AM

Gary, if the Colts Offense had been middle of the pack, they would probably not have even made the playoffs. The point I'm trying to make is that you can't be poor in any area of the game (unless you're the 2000 Ravens) and one side of the ball has to be very good. Right now we're pretty good on O and pretty bad on D. I think we're closer to being great on O than good on D. You must be 50+ years old, gary. You continue to buy into that old notion that only D wins. think outside the box for a second. You'd be wrong if you thought i know nothing about sports. The Lakers teams of the 80's were all about offense had one good player on D (Cooper) . kareem was notoriously average, scott was ok, worthy played no D, wilkes was all about O. They put forth an effort (which is questionable on our part at times) but their defense was partly about wearing the other team out by running and weakening the other team's offense.

Posted by: mark | October 24, 2007 11:12 AM

"People have different builds - just because they are lankier does not mean that their bones are "thinner." Can't stop laughing at that one.


Posted by: | October 24, 2007 09:03 AM "

It's too bad you're not on the receiving end of a Shaq bull rush. Then you'd know the true meaning of big bones vs. small bones, and you're probably a waif just like Gilby.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 24, 2007 11:12 AM

also, I never suggested that the Wiz not play any D. The Nuggets in the 80's tried that and it didn't work. They'd get into the playoffs every year and then lose. I'm saying we should run more. That's ALL i'm saying. The Princeton offense inhibits our players ability. Our players are built to run for the most part. They're typicsl West Cpast type guys that would thrive in a faster tempo. We should be able to do that and attempt to play adequate defeinse as well. Before Gil and Caron got hurt when we were in first place last year, we were among the league leaders in O and below average on D as usual. the formula works.

Posted by: mark | October 24, 2007 11:19 AM

Yes, you can't be completely horrible at one side, true their has to be a balance. The lakers however did play good team defense. one player is never enough on either side of the ball you have to play as a team. But if you think the wiz can just stockpile offense and win your wrong. They need defensive minded people! i coach basketball now and I can tell you if a kid comes in and can't shoot a lick but can play defense he makes the team,no matter what else is on the team but if one comes in and can shoot and I have shooters he doesn't.

Posted by: Gary | October 24, 2007 11:22 AM

I do agree we should run more for sure.But we should also give our post guys a chance also insted of always shooting jumpers

Posted by: gary | October 24, 2007 11:25 AM

the formula does work in the regular season. Not when it comes to crunch time. Even with them healthy we would not have beat the spurs they have to much defense

Posted by: gary | October 24, 2007 11:27 AM

completely off topic, did they switch from bronze to gold officially this year on the uni's?

Posted by: andy | October 24, 2007 11:35 AM

I'm not sure where you got the Booth stats from. He played 15 minutes or more six times last season and scored and rebounded in double digits once last season (both in the same game). He was a warm body that they could throw out there if they really needed a big man. This season he wouldn't play more than Blatche or Pecherov coming off the bench.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 24, 2007 11:50 AM

"I do agree we should run more for sure.But we should also give our post guys a chance also insted of always shooting jumpers"

That's a great idea if you have post guys who deserve a chance. last year the Wiz didn't. Thier best post player was Songaila, who missed half the season and was probably playing at no more than 60% efficiency the rest of the season.

Posted by: kalorama | October 24, 2007 11:51 AM

Ok Gary. i think we're actually on the same page. For years I've said that teams that stockpile players that are all scorers won't win. It just doesn't work. One thing I've noticed (and mentioned here before) is that every NBA champion for the last 20+ years has had at least one player who was 1st 2nd or 3rd team defense caliber. The HEAT may be an exception but SA has had Bowen and the Admiral. Pistons has Ben Wallace, Rodman, Dumars.Lakers had Kobe and Cooper. Bulls has Jordan, Pippen, Grant etc. They have also all had a very good rebounder...Duncan, Rodman, Kareem/Worthy, Shaq. Bulls had Horace Grant. We have neither a great defender nor a great rebounder (McGuire could be both ...we'll see) so it's an uphill battle. I just don't see a coach being able to come in and change the mindset of a team from O to D. Maybe Ayers can do it but I doubt it. We looked great defensively in the first preseason game but have given up a lot of points subsequently. My fear is that we spend so much time expending energy on D that the O suffers and we wind up in the middle of the pack in both areas. We have to face the fact that we will never be great on Defense with the guys we have. Our goal is to be above average. Being average in both areas gets us 35-40 wins. Being good in one or the other gets us to 45. being great in one and average in the other gets us 50+. again, it's just my opinion and i'm sure folks will disagree.

Posted by: mark | October 24, 2007 11:58 AM

Kalorama. I guess you're not a big haywood fan. I'd feed him the ball a couple times just to make sure he was awake.

Posted by: mark | October 24, 2007 12:17 PM

I'd feed Haywood the ball if he was no more than 3 feet from the rim without a defender between him and the basket. Get him the ball in any other position and you might as well just chuck it directly out of bounds into photographer's row behind the basket, because it'll be the same result most of the time.

Posted by: kalorama | October 24, 2007 12:35 PM

After reading Etan Thomas' 'words from the heart', I'd like to point something that seems obvious but that no one on any board has apparently addressed. In his eloquent missive, Thomas says that his heart condition has been known since childhood and that the Wizards knew about it when he was drafted. And so by inference presumably when they gave him that enormous contract extension.

Now, leaving aside the issues of whether or not Thomas is a fine person, deserved the contract, deserves to be a starting NBA center, or will ever return as a player--why did the Wizards knowingly gamble this much time and money on a player that any competent GP could have told them would be a likely candidate for this type of surgery? At the very least, it was incompetent. At worst the decisions were 'political'--not in the sense of Thomas' anti-war statements, but in line with Pollin's other acts of charity and community involvement. In other words, knowing that Thomas was a ticking time bomb and that his bouts of lethargy and constant injuries were connected to his condition, it was mandated by management that he play anyway as a sort of Special Olympics 'handicapable' player. That's the only obvious conclusion here. Except for sheer stupidity, of course.

With the Wizards, this can never be counted out.

Posted by: KTV | October 24, 2007 12:41 PM

Here's a quote line from Sam Smith of the Chicago Tribune for you JCN supporters:

"Spanish import Juan Carlos Navarro is shooting 47 percent on three-pointers for the Grizzlies. "He's not just a friend of Pau Gasol's," coach Marc Iavaroni said. "He can play." ...

Posted by: Jeff | October 24, 2007 12:50 PM

"In other words, knowing that Thomas was a ticking time bomb and that his bouts of lethargy and constant injuries were connected to his condition, it was mandated by management that he play anyway as a sort of Special Olympics 'handicapable' player. That's the only obvious conclusion here. Except for sheer stupidity, of course."

(A) He was hardly a "ticking time bomb." There was no way to predict when, or even if, his condition would ultimately require surgery. And the fact remains that other athletes have had similar procedures and been able to continue their careers. The bottom line is that he passed the mandatory physical prior to signing his contract, so there was no medical reason, at the time, not to sign him.

(B) What "bouts of lethargy?" Thomas played with a higher, more consistent level of energy than just about anyone on the team (the results of that energetic play are another issue).

(C) Please explain, in detail, how ankle and knee injuries and a torn abdominal muscle are in any way a result of his heart condition.

Posted by: kalorama | October 24, 2007 12:55 PM

Here's a really good interview with Etan:

http://wizards.realgm.com/articles/273/20071023/words_from_the_heart_/

Sounds like he's not too pleased with Ivan.

Again, for anyone who doesn't know, tonight's game is on tv if you have DirectTV on CSN+ channel 669.

Posted by: Darnell | October 24, 2007 1:18 PM

Pretty ignorant comments by KTV. But I hope Ivan asks Wizards management when they were made aware of Etan's condition (Etan was drafted by Dallas), and how that factored into their decision to match the contract Milwaukee offered to him.
It really isn't necessarily a bad decision by the Wizards -- they probably thought that if his heart became a problem, he would have to retire, he would come off the books, and insurance would cover any losses the team suffered. It might be less risky signing a player with a heart condition than one who has on-again, off-again knee problems.

Posted by: Red | October 24, 2007 1:22 PM

I wish to add this note in relation to Etan's article above. A number of months ago - while out, we met Etan. He was very pleasant, easy to engage in coversation.
Considering all the articles on he & Brendan - the first thing we all asked about "How are you and Brendan?"
He said thats just a story they push.
He said they(he said Ivan's name)love to create stories where there is none then keep it going. Instead of just doing their job - they love to create drama unncessarily. Brendan & he are fine.

He was very distrubed about the erroneous reporting, etc. We changed the subject & all of us just kept throwing the questions. But it was clear - he didn't appreciate the error filled media.

Posted by: Bill | October 24, 2007 1:34 PM

Seems like DC knows a little too much about the size of players "bones". He probaly has taken enough big vs. small bones to know the difference so you might want to listen to him.

Posted by: DCsmallbone88 | October 24, 2007 1:36 PM

Some other questions about how "retired" players are accounted for under the Collective Bargaining Agreement:

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player has retired. For example, if Etan retires this year, two years before his contract ends, any salary paid to him will be included in the Wizards team salary in those seasons. It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary. This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief.

Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief. Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.

Posted by: Rook | October 24, 2007 1:40 PM

Mark, I agree I'm not sure a coach can change the mindset of the team. I hope also but just not sure about it.

Posted by: Gary | October 24, 2007 1:43 PM

Funny, every analyst and TV announcer I've ever seen announcing a Wizards game (ESPN, CSN, TBS, etc...) have all commented on how quick and strong Gilbert is.

It's amazing to me that poor little waiflike Gilbert Arenas, with his skinny build, and thin bones has been able to fool all those NBA analysts and commentators.

Posted by: Rook | October 24, 2007 1:43 PM

I guess what they say is true, TV makes you LOOK bigger....

Posted by: Rook | October 24, 2007 1:45 PM

Etan was drafted by Dallas, not the Wiz. He was a part of that multi-player deal for Juwan Howard. That being said, I've never seen Etan play with bouts of lethargy ... Brendan, yes, Etan no.

If what he said was true, and all GMs knew of the condition, then Milwaukee, the originator of Etan's contract, knew also, yet still made the offer.

Posted by: 2cents4wiz | October 24, 2007 1:45 PM

Sorry if my words sound cold or 'ignorant' to you. In fact, I too have met Etan Thomas--at a Borders 'slam poetry' reading--and as I said in my earlier post, he is a fine person. That being said, he was noticeably out of shape at the time, and several other people posting on blogs who have met him during the off-season have said the same. His bouts of lethargy are obvious to anyone who's watched him play--he relies on bursts of high intensity effort, then spends a lot of time gasping on the bench. This physical style of play is exactly what led to his injuries, and anyone who thinks a congenital heart defect has nothing to do with it should research the subject.

As for the person who wrote that the Wizards were willing to gamble on him because there have have been a number of other players who came back from this surgery: there were exactly two. Turiaf and Hoiberg, both of whom formed a support group for him during this time. Not much to base your case on, though, since the jury's still out on both their comebacks.

None of the comments directed against me address the central issue here: when did the Wizards really know about this--and if they did, what business did they have giving him that new contract? No one here who runs their own business would hire a
day laborer or a computer program on that basis.

Posted by: KTV | October 24, 2007 1:55 PM

kalorama, your scouting report on Haywood is hilarious. Surprisingly, though...I think that if all he did was shoot available dunks,putbacks, and 2 foot hooks he could still wind up with 12 points game. i thin kthat many opportunities are there with the drive and dish or offensive rebounds. 12 and 10 from him with a couple blocks and we're at 55 wins.

Posted by: mark | October 24, 2007 1:58 PM

I pretty much agree with your assessment of Haywood, Mark (although I'd put 10 and 8 as a more reasonable output to expect). That's what makes him so frustrating.

If he simply played within his limitations and stopped trying to prove that he's better than he really is (plus the little matter of bringing it every game, which is a hurdle he's yet to clear), his production and on-court success would likely actually improve.

Posted by: kalorama | October 24, 2007 2:06 PM

Mark, your comments were unfair to Booth. You put him in the same category with Ramos and Lang whereas he's a totally different category of player. It's not his fault that EJ underutilized him. There's a difference between an established NBA veteran and 2 guys who have never done anything in the league.

As a fan I respect Booth as a hard-working professional and a guy who could contribute on any team in the league. I can't agree with lumping him together with "Party John."

Posted by: Mitch | October 24, 2007 2:15 PM

"As for the person who wrote that the Wizards were willing to gamble on him because there have have been a number of other players who came back from this surgery: there were exactly two. Turiaf and Hoiberg, both of whom formed a support group for him during this time. Not much to base your case on, though, since the jury's still out on both their comebacks."

I assume that was directed at me. And even if not, I feel compelled to point out how wildly off base it is.

No one said "the Wizards were willing to gamble on him because there have have been a number of other players who came back from this surgery." I said there was no medical reason not to sign him because (A) he passed his mandatory physical and (B) it was never a given that the condition would ever require him to have surgery or impact his career in any way. There was that possibility, but there was also the possibility he'd break his ankle or tear his abdominal muscle. Your rant gives the impression that surgery was always inevitable and automatically career-threatening. Neither of those things is remotely true.

As for the rest: There have been other athletes (both in the NBA and other leagues) who have had open heart surgery (for conditions similar to Etan's and others) and were able to continue their careers. Doesn't matter how many there were. That fact that it happened and they kept playing is indication that it can be done. And by all accounts, Etan will also return to the court.

Oh, and for the record, Hoiberg never made a comeback. He actually retired after surgery.

Posted by: kalorama | October 24, 2007 2:19 PM

Mark - it's funny, but if Haywood plays exactly like he did last year, but instead of getting 22 minutes a game, he averages 40 Minutes - his numbers would be 12 ppg and 11 rpg with 2 bpg.

If he improves his free throw shooting (55% last year) to 70%, he would be better than the numbers you say he needs...

Unfortunately, your premise that if he improves to 12ppg 10rpb and 2 bpg that it will result in 55+ wins is unfounded....

Between Haywood and Thomas last year, they averaged 41 minutes per game and 12 ppg and 12 rpg with 2.4 bpg. The Wizards ended up with 41 wins.

NO - the improvement must come from staying healthy, playing better team defense, and an improved bench.

Posted by: Rook | October 24, 2007 2:26 PM

"Unfortunately, your premise that if he improves to 12ppg 10rpb and 2 bpg that it will result in 55+ wins is unfounded...."

So is your premise that his production will automatically increase in direct proportion to an increase in minutes.

Posted by: kalorama | October 24, 2007 2:29 PM

Kalorama - you are exactly right. There is no direct correlation between production and minutes played for Haywood, because he's never actually played that many minutes. Who is to say that he could actually pull that load? Of course, I did say IF he played exactly like he did last year but for 40 minutes per game. I tried to caveat my statement..

My point was that even if Haywood improves, it won't really improve the team's record (that much). We already had a center that averaged 12 12 and 2.4 (Haywood/Thomas).

Posted by: Rook | October 24, 2007 2:37 PM

So is your premise that his production will automatically increase in direct proportion to an increase in minutes.

Actually, in most cases, players increase their production when they get more minutes, so I'm not sure how you can say it's a completely unfounded conclusion.

See here:

http://ballhype.com/story/the_paul_millsap_doctrine/

Posted by: Pradamaster | October 24, 2007 2:43 PM

Actually, that's the wrong link. Read this one instead.

http://ballhype.com/story/love_and_mathematics_pt_2_the_paul_millsap_quandary/

Posted by: Pradamaster | October 24, 2007 2:45 PM

"Actually, in most cases, players increase their production when they get more minutes, so I'm not sure how you can say it's a completely unfounded conclusion."

That's true but it's also not my point.

In the majority of cases the increase in production is not directly proportional to the increase in minutes. In other words, just because a guy who plays 18 mpg puts up 9 pts and 6 rebs, does not automatically mean that if you play him 36 minutes he'll put up 18 pts and 12 rebs. That's what Rook was implying about Haywood and it's not true.

On-court production can't be extrapolated on a straight line like that because there are too many unmeasurable factors (fatigue, rotations, game pressure, mental toughness) that effect how a guy will produce when he goes from a limited minutes role to a major minutes one.

Posted by: kalorama | October 24, 2007 2:55 PM

SORRRY, FOR NOT PHRASING EVERYTHIG "EXACT & CORRECT" AS I STATED - THIS IS NEW FOR ME. SO, THANKS FOR BEING OBNOXIOUS AND RUDE. AS THO ALL OF YOU ARE ACTUALLY BEING PAID BY THE NBA OR ESPN, CBS, WRC COMCAST AS ANALYST!!

FYI - Because Arenas shoots the ball so darn much as opposed to a Jason Kidd, Nash, Billups...who are pass first points - Its pretty hard to invision him as a true point. The Mid to average person - was Daniels. Below par from my view has been Mason.

My next question has to do with Boston who lost to New Jersey. Is that indicative of how they may perform this fall?

Hoping a more civil response. Thanks.

Posted by: ESPN | October 24, 2007 2:55 PM

CORRECTION:

That last line should read:

that affect how a guy will produce when he goes from a limited minutes role to a major minutes one.

Posted by: kalorama | October 24, 2007 2:56 PM

Pradmaster - thanks for the link. That was a fascinating article.

I still think you can't apply the logic to Haywood for 40 minutes.

1. He's never played that many minutes over an extended period in his career.

2. He's just as likely to hurt the team with his turnovers as help them with his added scoring.

3. Who knows whether he would start complaining and moping about not getting enough rest? :-)

Anyway, thanks again for the link - it was very entertaining.

Posted by: Rook | October 24, 2007 2:59 PM

KTV - You are correct. When we sat & talked with Etan few months back...he was not in any shape whatsoever. It was hard to tell he was an athelete at all. Very lethargic - no pronounced physical attributes either. We attend church w/Ruffin & his family. Although very laid back manner - sort of draggin along etc. He sort of looked like a sleep walker.
You could at least see some definition in chest and shoulders..but not so for Etan.

I say you're correct. With him receiving regular physicals. with stress tests, etc. how can they acknowledge missing this?

Posted by: Bill | October 24, 2007 3:04 PM

Well, sure, I'm not saying with certainty that Haywood will get better, or that he'll exactly match his per-40 minute output if he gets those minutes.

But for the most part, players get better with more minutes, so I'd say the chance Haywood gets better, rather than stays the same or gets worse, is a good one.

But yes, it's by no means a certainty. That doesn't mean we shouldn't guess based on past results.

Posted by: Pradamaster | October 24, 2007 3:17 PM

It seems to me that Brendan's playing time is directly related to how he is playing. I've been at many games where Brendan stands around, uninvolved in the game. In those instances, he usually gets pulled or get shortened playing time. He is his own worst enemy. If AB or Opech winds up being better, and deserving of a starter's role, Brendan will show his true colors, again.

Posted by: 2cents4wiz | October 24, 2007 3:21 PM

"Funny, every analyst and TV announcer I've ever seen announcing a Wizards game (ESPN, CSN, TBS, etc...) have all commented on how quick and strong Gilbert is.

It's amazing to me that poor little waiflike Gilbert Arenas, with his skinny build, and thin bones has been able to fool all those NBA analysts and commentators.

Posted by: Rook | October 24, 2007 01:43 PM "

Don't take it out of context.

The original posting was comparing Gilby's build to JKidd and Billups, and the latter two have much more thicker/stockier builds.

Like it or not, Gilby has been injured a few times during his career here. Last season he dislocated his clavicle after getting bumped and also had knee surgery. I think he also had a strain abdominal muscle in the past too, among other injuries.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 24, 2007 3:25 PM

Billups and Kidd have both been injured a few times in their careers and have both had surgery.

Arenas has only missed more than 8 games in a season twice. Once was his rookie year when he spent most of the first half of the season buried on the bench. The other was his first year in D.C. (when he had the abdominal strain). So, basically, in 6 years he's had exactly one season when he missed any significant time to injury.

Posted by: kalorama | October 24, 2007 3:44 PM

(Going back to the discussion this morning on running more.)

The Wiz should run more off of blocked shots, missed shots, even off of made shots. That would definitely improve this team.

But they should run less off of steals. Our perimeter players gamble too much. We get steals, but we also give up layups and get our big men into foul trouble.

I'd like to see our big men run some more. Blatche especially seems to be built for that. Beat your man down the court, establish great position, maybe even force the defense to try to play you with a guard. Easy points in the paint.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 24, 2007 4:34 PM

"In other words, just because a guy who plays 18 mpg puts up 9 pts and 6 rebs, does not automatically mean that if you play him 36 minutes he'll put up 18 pts and 12 rebs. That's what Rook was implying about Haywood and it's not true."


Actually kalorama , the article listed in the link makes the argument that a player's production will actually INCREASE with more minutes...

Using your numbers, according to the statistical analysis they did, if you double the player's minutes, the production MORE than doubles.

Interesting premise.... not sure I agree. There are also some holes in the analysis (small sample size, etc...), but at least they have some factual information to backup the argument that doubling a player's minutes will increase the production, besides circumstantial or observational information.

Posted by: Rook | October 24, 2007 5:37 PM

"Gilby has thin bones"
"Gilby looks like a waifish"
"a waif just like Gilby"
"Gilby would break like a twig"


I assume, by "waifish", you mean wisplike, insubstantial, or emaciated as to starving.

Is that how I took your comment "out of context"?


Posted by: Rook | October 24, 2007 5:51 PM

Gilbert Arenas 6'4" 225 lbs (4% body fat)
Jason Kidd 6'4" 210 lbs (unknown)
Chauncey Billups 6'3" 202 lbs (unknown)

Posted by: Anonymous | October 24, 2007 5:55 PM

Uh DCMan88, waifish 225lbs Arenas compared to your boys Kidd and Billups huh? Nobody made you look like an idiot but yourself. You proved that all by yourself, nicely done.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 24, 2007 6:38 PM

Not to argue over 10 lbs but Gil is listed at 215. Maybe he bulked up over the summer but right now he's listed at 215 stil bigger the Jason (the injured list) Kidd and Chauncy(working on the injured list) billups.

Posted by: the truth | October 24, 2007 7:08 PM

As of July, according to his blog, GA gained 7 lbs of muscle over the summer.... His playing weight last year was 215, so that means he is now around 222.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 24, 2007 8:51 PM

Point is, at 4% body fat Arenas has more muscle mass than either Kidd or Billups. (Unless Kidd or Billups are at a dangerously low body fat percentage).

Posted by: Rook | October 24, 2007 8:53 PM

"

Gilbert Arenas 6'4" 225 lbs (4% body fat)
Jason Kidd 6'4" 210 lbs (unknown)
Chauncey Billups 6'3" 202 lbs (unknown)

Posted by: | October 24, 2007 05:55 PM

Uh DCMan88, waifish 225lbs Arenas compared to your boys Kidd and Billups huh? Nobody made you look like an idiot but yourself. You proved that all by yourself, nicely done.

Posted by: | October 24, 2007 06:38 PM "

I'm glad you believe everything you see on the net, just like how Shaq only weighed 325 while he was with LA and Barkley was 6-7 during his playing days.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 24, 2007 11:31 PM

It's too bad at 6-4, x lbs, that Gilby still can't play any defense.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 24, 2007 11:35 PM

"Actually kalorama , the article listed in the link makes the argument that a player's production will actually INCREASE with more minutes..."

And, for the umpteenth time, I'm not arguing that a player's production won't increase with increased minutes. It should increase. I'm saying that the increase cannot be assumed to be indirect proportion to the increase in minutes, in other words doubling a players minutes will not automatically double his production, which was the assumption you were making with Haywood, an assumption that remains unfounded in fact.

Posted by: kalorama | October 25, 2007 1:33 AM

Awwww DMan88, loser's attempt at trying to twist the facts around that you're an IDIOT.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 26, 2007 9:21 AM

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