Do the doctors know when Brendan Haywood will regain full use of his hands?

Any substance to the Kobe to Wizards Rumor???

Ivan - did u see the Chicago Tribune article (online version) speculating on Kobe for Arenas? That would be wild.

Gil for Kobe! Do it!

Now that we know he's going to be okay and that his career isn't in jeopardy, can we all scrap together the funds to get Etan a one-way plane ticket out of this town forever? Seriously.

I'll chip in.

Frank. Now THAT was funny. I like haywood but that was a pretty good one. If you like his hands, I know you absolutely loved Kwame's.

When was the last time a Sam Smith trade rumor came to pass?

barno,
I got flamed on this blog for not being nice to Etan when it was discovered that he would have surgery. I didn't say anything bad but once I knew he'd be ok, I stated that it was better for the team that he's unavailable for Eddie to use as a crutch and motivating tool. Now it appears that EJ is using Nick Young to motivate DS. Will he never learn? This is not 1980. A guy who just signed a new deal is NOT going to be motivated by playing time. It's not like he's losing endorsements because he doesn't start. If EJ keeps riding him, he'll sulk and play average ball til his contract year. Either start him or bench him. We could all do without the threats ...especially made through the media. Treat the guys like adults and you won't have them acting like kids (fighting in practice, etc).

I've said it all along, and I'll say it again -- Kobe to the Wiz (for Gil and Etan, to make the salaries match) makes sense.

Kupchak simply won't get a better offer, and in terms of putting butts in seats, Gil's going to come closest to Kobe. He won't be Kobe, of course -- don't think there's a player in the league that could -- but he's the closest thing Buss could get.

The Bulls aren't giving up four players for Kobe. And Kobe won't want to play for a team that guts its roster to get him. Would the Wiz give up much more than Gil to get Kobe? Not bloody likely; Ernie's no Mitch Kupchak.

It's my sense that increasingly, Kobe is trying to force his way out -- and he has supporters in the Lakers' organization who want to move him badly, if media reports are to be believed. That means the Lakers' leverage drops. Kupchak knows he won't get equal value. But Arenas' game and roots in the area will do the most to placate angry fans in LA.

Kobe, if he's smart, would realize that having Caron, Antawn, Blatche, etc. around is the best supporting cast he'll get if he wants another ring. That might convince him to allow the trade.

I honestly don't see another trade scenario that makes as much sense, mainly because of what the Lakers get back in the deal. They need a marquee player, and the only one that could possibly be available in a trade is Gil.

With Kobe, the Wiz win the East and get to the finals. They lose, but at least they get there.

The obvious question: Was Big Oily fitted with a CheeseBoot(tm)???

http://wizznutzz.com/cheeseboot.html

I hope so. Then he could heal his foot and create tasty cheese product at the very same time! Perhaps a signature Big Oily Tvorog, the famed Russian white cheese!

An Open Letter to Barno:

Barno, why didn't you consider how your post would make my family feel when they read it?

Not to change the subject, but I just saw a rumor online the Wizards could offer Arenas for Kobe...any near truth to that??

Gilby for Kobe?

NO don't do it!

Re: An Open Letter to Barno

HAH! Now that was funny.

On a more serious note, I think the Poet gets the award for most guilt trips in all of history.

Gil for Kobe.I'd do it in a second,because Kobe's the best player in the game.But what about the intagibles like Gilberts scores for schools program,Gilbert rollin through Barry Farms without a posse,his charisma & 1000 watt smile,& all the other things that make Gilbert more than just another superstar.Would we really want to trade that for a player that's high on talent & low on personality.On second thought i think i am going to VETO that trade.

Are people seriously thinking Gil for Kobe is even on the table or do we all just have nothing to do at work? The Lakers are gonna trade the best player in the game for a young all star coming off knee surgery ? Why would they do that? They wouldn't. let's talk about something that could actually happen. Now if you throw in caron....maybe the value comes close. otherwise, it's a dumb trade for LA.

Heard from a pretty good source- Kobe for Arenas, Nick Young and a future #1

Keithinator, I think there's a rule that keeps a team from trading to acquire a guy that may have to retire do to health reasons.

The Wizards could apply for an exception, but if Etan is traded LA couldn't as I understand it. I asked the question a while back and I don't think anyone knew the answer. Can a salary exception for a player that had to retire due to health reasons be traded?

But anyway, I only think the exception if Etan has to retire is 3.7m.

I'd agree that LA has to find a team to get a player with a name for Kobe. I just can't see a 4 player package flying with the fans in La La Land.

Don't think Nick Young can be traded before Dec. 15th.

GM, good point. Not sure how it works. Jacobson heard Arenas, Young and a #1. I think the Wiz would do that, but I don't think the salaries match.

Mark, all things being equal, I agree that the Lakers wouldn't do that. But things are not equal. If Kobe continues to pout, he may force their hand. If you're Kupchak, and that's the best offer you get, do you take it? You sure might, if Jerry Buss says "Get it done." And Buss might. Again, Kupchak knows he won't get equal value. I can't stress that enough. Teams won't trade away everything just to get Kobe. Certainly Ernie G. won't trade two all-stars for Kobe. If he plays hardball, I think the Lakers would blink. They have before.

We already know how far Kobe and four guys named Moe can go. With Gil, Young and a #1, at least the Lakers will have some pieces they can build with.

An Open Letter to Gilbert:

WE (D.C) loves you. Do not pay any attention to the fools who get an idea in their head and have to talk about it (that idea being trading you for Kobe). That trade will never happen, nor do WE (D.C) want it to happen.

Ignore the fools, Gil.

Thanks,

Barno

Barno's hatred of Etan seems to be more based on his politics than his ball playing.

I'm running a counter money collection - how much to get Barno off the blog?

am i the only one hoo doesnt want to trade GILBERT? I know its kobe, but id have thought more ppl would be attached. i love the guy too much to trade him for anybody and i mean ANYBODY

From a chat with ESPN NBA reporter Marc Stein...

Phil (Nations Capital): How real is the rumor that the Wiz are going to trade for Kobe?

SportsNation Marc Stein: Real enough that I wouldn't call it a rumor. Washington's interest, I'm told, is definitely genuine. What we don't know yet is whether Kobe would be amenable to Washington or exactly how much the Wiz would be willing to part with. But the Lakers would be hard-pressed to do better than a package that features Gilbert Arenas and (if they're lucky) Andray Blatche . . . as long as Gil were willing to agree to a contract extension with his hometown Lakers as opposed to opting out at season's end.

SportsNation Marc Stein: I am no way saying that this is imminent. But our man Sam Smith reported in today's Chicago Tribune that there's a growing buzz about the Wiz getting involved in the Kobe Sweepstakes and I've since heard that there's legit smoke here. We'll have to see what Kobe thinks of sharing a city with the president, since he wields more power than anyone in the NBA with the league's only active no-trade clause.

Interesting. Would Ernie give up Blatche? That would be a tough blow. I think he's going to be a star, so I probably wouldn't do it. However, look at the Lakers, who could've had Kidd last year if they'd parted with Bynum. Would the Wiz be making the same mistake...?

Does it strike anyone as odd that it was the Chicago Tribune that supposedly broke the story? Not too mention they call the Wizards a "dark horse" and have an unnamed GM. To me it just sounds like someone is trying put in other contenders for Kobe to help force the Bulls hand so the trade won't be as one sided.

check out the posts on fannation regarding the kobe/arenas rumor. people are ripping on d.c. pretty hard...

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/25616

Steve, yeah, but now with Stein's additions, it seems there may be more to it now. You can be sure Ivan, Mike and the others are all over this.

Hey, this is at least more fun than discussing the Redskins, eh?

i 100% echo this sentiment:

"am i the only one hoo doesnt want to trade GILBERT? I know its kobe, but id have thought more ppl would be attached. i love the guy too much to trade him for anybody and i mean ANYBODY"

More from the Marc Stein chat:

Patrick (Chicago, IL): U think theres any way the bulls can get kobe without giving up Deng?

SportsNation Marc Stein: Not if someone like Arenas is on the table and Kobe decides he's willing to go to Washington.

Andy (Milwaukee, WI): If Kobe were to go to D.C., how would a trio of Bryant, Butler, and Jamison be any different from the trio of Bryant, Butler, and Odom that Kobe started out with after Shaq left?

SportsNation Marc Stein: It would be a trio in the East, for starters. Which makes a huge difference. Plus teams are going smaller and smaller now -- smaller than they were three years ago -- so Butler and Jamison are big enough to work with. The Lakers might not be having so much friction with No. 24 if they had held onto Butler. I have to admit that I thought it was the right move at the time to gamble on Kwame, but Butler proved me (and the Lakers, more importantly) way wrong. Butler, Odom and Kobe would be a decent core now with the way Caron has developed.

Note: I'm sure Stein meant to say Butler, Jamison and Kobe.

Oliver (NY): Isn't the Wiz-LA deal is the only deal that makes sense for everyone ? LA gets an All-Star that can fill seats in Agent 0 and a young developing forward in Blatche to go with Bynum. The Wiz upgrade and become contenders (doubling Kobe now becomes almost impossible without paying for it, and Jamison is much healthier than Odom) and Kobe has a chance to build a legacy. Please explain to me (asides from Kobe saying no, which would be a mistake, and Arenas re-signing, which he would) why this trade doesn't happen?

SportsNation Marc Stein: if Kobe doesn't want to go to Washington, it won't happen. And if other teams think that the Lakers are closing in on Arenas, perhaps they improve their offers and give the Lakers more to think about.

The Chicago Trib is a rag. Who knows what their motive is in starting that rumor, but if you read all these articles it looks like it all comes back to a bunch of hack journalists convincing each other that the Chicago Trib story has some substance behind it.

I also don't think Ernie is going to shake up this team for Kobe unless it's a real bargain for the Wiz.

I'm guessing Kupchak is behind it precisely to make other teams (read: Bulls) think about improving their offer.

Prazak,

Pax is no dummy either. He won't up his offer. Everyone knows the Lakers are over a barrel right now, so they have no incentive to make better offers. Kupchak probably has to trade Kobe, and will just have to get the best deal he can. That could well be Arenas and Blatche, or a combination of bit players.

erry Buss is a drunken gambler. He'll do it and care less abut the aftermath. He and Kupschak got tired of Shaq demanding "more money" everyday, everywhere; at practice shoot arounds and training camp. Finally, Buss told Kupchak;
"make all his dreams come true - send him to disney world." He did & the rest is history. Articles I read in LA stated Shaq would regularly cus(literally scream-use foul & profane language @ Buss- demanding "gimme my money" But the outward apearances gave the imprerssion - it was Kobe's influence.

Now - it appears Kobe is using the same strategy which will eventually work and not in the way he may want. He has a "No Trade Clause" in his contract(per Marc Stein)so they are "allowing him" to exercise his right to request the trade.

Buss & Kupshak have no interest in winning another championship - all appearances are they are letting the ship sink...slowly..while still making millions - how? Kobe. I don't see them wanting Gilbert Arenas. He's too "overt" It become obnoxious after a while then fade or they ignor you. Yes, he grew up there but his behavior and action belie that fact. He's like a court jester...tap dancin, tappin with white face & gloves..
too in your face,seeking publicity, attention etc. Kobe has gown up there - blends right in with the town..they see him everywhere with his kids..

This is NOT DCMan just a intelligent baskeball lover with some insight.

I love Gilbert. Kobe is the best person in the NBA. Who would bring a championship to DC sooner?

The other question you have to ask is who plays better defense?

I think the answer is Kobe. Put him in a situation where he has good solid teamates and you've got a contender. The sad part is if Gilbert went to LA, he'd have to go up against Dallas, San Antonio, and Phoenix for the next few years and I don't see him getting to the finals with the current Lakers roster.

I'm not a Kobe fan but again, the guy can play, he would keep fans in the seats if not bring in more. We would also get much more publicity, more nationally televised games, etc. Remember, Kobe has the #1 selling jersey in the NBA, it would be a Wizards marketing dept. dream.

If Grunfeld could make this work, it would be sad to see Gilbert go but a team that has a potential to win 50-60 games would make up for losing Agent Zero.

personally, i don't want kobe. it's almost as bad as bringing in deon to the skins. i want a team i can root for, not a team that wins, but i don't like or respect the players.

all that aside, if i were to give up arenas for kobe, i would not include blatche also. he's currently the best future this team has. plus, if we take on kobe's contract, who's to say we'd still be able to keep jamison next season? we all know we're not going over the luxury tax limit to do so. so we'd essentially be giving up arenas, blatche, AND jamison. then after one year, kobe would be gone too.

you'd have to make them take thomas with arenas. also, should be mentioned that blatche is a on a byc. so he can't be traded until december 15th, and his salary cap influence would increase significantly as a result.

i'd rather see how this season plays out.

to Barno:
i love Gil, and how he does the D@m thing!...but did you actually think before you started typing that letter to Gil? I love Gil, but where will be be after this season if he opts out of his contract and goes somewhere else? @ssed out, thats where. If a Gil for Kobe trade is possible wihtout giving up too many peices (and plus Caron is too much) then business wise it's a good deal.

I don't want to see Gil leave, but eventually we won't be able to aford him and attract other talent and be able to pay them. It's just business.

"Keithinator, I think there's a rule that keeps a team from trading to acquire a guy that may have to retire do to health reasons."

There's no rule prohibiting players who are injured or out for medical reasons for being traded. The only sticking point would be that in order for a trade to be completed the player must pass a physical. but even that's not absolute, because teams have the option of waiving the physical if they want.

Of course, it's a moot point, because if thee Wiz couldn't unload Etan's contract when he was healthy, it's a sure bet no one's going to take him less than a month removed from open heart surgery.

"Can a salary exception for a player that had to retire due to health reasons be traded?"

First of all, there's been no indication that Etan is going to retire (in fact, his doctors were quoted as saying he should be able to return to basketball), so that's very premature. Beyond that, salary exceptions received as a result of a player's medical/injury status can be traded. But they cannot be traded as part of a package deal (with another player or picks). They can only be traded in a straight up deal for another player.

we are not talking about Jersey Sale or whatever, just salary to salary. The only one that would be in conversation is Antawn Jamison. His paycheck makes finanical sense. (do a trade in realgm, you will see). Wiz will have to throw in DeShawn or Nick Young for it. THERE IS NO WAY EG would give up Arenas now.

I would definitely chip in to any fund to get Etan out of D.C. Did people happen to catch Etan's reply on RealGM to Ivan's response to Etan's original interview? Etan shows that he is overly sensitive about his condition. He tries to say his career "was not threatened" -- I'm sorry but if a knee injury could potentially threaten a player's career, open heart surgery definitely threatens a player's career -- to think otherwise is just stupid (Etan). Cracking open a person's chest is a life threatening procedure, not just career threatening -- Ivan was right on the mark with his reporting. Also, Ivan raised the issue of heart conditions with other ball players, not to show that they suffered from the same condition, but to show that the NBA (following certain tragedies) takes any irregularity in the heart as a very serious matter. If it was nothing, the doctors would not have cracked open Etan's chest. Unfortunately for the Wiz and its fans, Etan is a better poet than ball player.

Didn't this blog just go through this Kobe-for-Gil madness a couple of weeks ago? Can anyone really envision EJ coaching Kobe? Can you envision Kobe playing the Princeton? Do you fire the coach now, or waste a year watching the inevitable power struggle?

Is there anything in EG's history as GM that would indicate he would make a high-risk trade like this, rather than building a team the old-fashioned way?

For the Arenas/Kobe trade rumors - I love Arenas and all that he brings to the D.C. area and the Wizards but Kobe is the more complete player. My goal would be for the Wiz to win big with Arenas but the Wiz will look silly if Arenas opts out at the end of the year and the Wiz get nothing in return (a scary thought). I don't want to trade Arenas but EG must look into the possibility if it means the Wiz would get Kobe in return. People may not like Kobe as a person but as a ball player -- there is no one that compares. He would make the Wiz the most dangerous team in the East -- I believe the Wiz are very close right now.

I can't remember where I read this, but doesn't Kobe have a right to opt out of his contract in 2009?

1. ET is not owed any apology. End of story.

2. Why is everyone so worried about Gilbert's ego and self-confidence? You guys have to be kidding, he's one of the sharpest marketers in all of pro sports, people are debating whether he should go for 100 mill or 125 mill, and people are worried that he'll fall to pieces over a trade rumor or a few critical blog comments. And why do people think that if they say they love Gilbert and want him to stay, that it will affect his thinking one way or the other? Get real.

"I can't remember where I read this, but doesn't Kobe have a right to opt out of his contract in 2009?"

Yep. More importantly, he also has a no-trade clause and no good reason to want to play for the Wizards if he entertains any hope of winning a title in the next couple of years.

I agree with you, Mitch, that nobody on this board is going to convince Gil to stay or go. But I do hope that Ernie is on the phone to Gil today telling him there's no substance to these rumors. Because I think Gil does indeed have a fragile ego, and if he think Ernie's shopping him around he might just flip a coin and decide, heads he's outta here, tails he's staying but sticking it to Ernie come contract time.

Thank you MD, finally somebody with a brain...people are forgetting Gil can bounce at the end of the year and go make mucho dinero someplace else, and we won't have anything to show for it.If we could possibley get a player of the same or better caliber for Gil now, that will be here a few more years, then why not!!

Kalorama, how does that trade make any sense for the Wiz if Kobe can opt out after two years? Kobe might be better than Gil right now, but I gotta think locking Gil up next year long-term is a better move for Ernie than trading away his franchise cornerstone for someone who's gonna bail after two years.

Ivan,
Any chance we bring in another big man now that Pecherov's gone done as well? Jackie Butler just got released by the Rockets--he's always flashed some potential; a sort of James Lang with real basketball skills and not just the size.

Prazak, the only coin Gil is going to let decide whether he stays or goes are the humungous offers he will get at the end of the season when he opts out of his contract, he already said he wants to test the waters and that it's just business...wake up son...I gotta father you on that one.

EG has shown that he generally will not make a stupid deal. He definitely won't gut the team to make a trade.

Personally, I would rather not give up Blatche or Young with Arenas to make this trade if it is going to happen. I would consider it with DS, DSong or Etan. I don't know is this works out money wise or if LA would accept such an offer.

However, I also don't know how backed in a corner LA may be right now.

"Kalorama, how does that trade make any sense for the Wiz if Kobe can opt out after two years? "

I never said it made any sense. In fact, I've said many times that there's zero chance of Kobe being dealt to the Wiz. Not sure what you saw that gave you the impression I was endorsing the idea.

Because I think Gil does indeed have a fragile ego

Posted by: Prazak | October 29, 2007 05:15 PM

Maybe so, but how does a Gil-for-Kobe rumor bruise his ego? If anything, it stokes it.

If you were Gilbert, would you rather sign a $100M contract in DC or a $90M contract in your home town and the entertainment capital of the world (LA)?

If you are EG and knew that Gilbert prefers LA, would you insist on your legal rights to sign him?

If you are EG and realize that Gil will probably end up in LA, what would be the team's two biggest on-court weaknesses if Gil were to leave? Can LA fill them?

How would compare something that costs one or more of the younger players (e.g., Blatche, Young) who provide a promising future, to something that provides a short-term benefit?

As you sift through the objectives of the two GMs, don't spend too much of your time on the trade rumors because while they are juicy, they don't solve the Wizard's main issues.

Arenas isn't going to LA, and Kobe isn't coming here.

Get over it already, EG isn't that stupid.

Kobe is a selfish a$$, why on God's green Earth would you want him in a Wiz uni anyway? I would never watch the Wiz again if Kobe came here.

And No Keith the trade makes no sense what so ever.

It would be a HUGE mistake to do that.

- Ray

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Wake me up when someone other than Sam Smith and the Tribune, and Marc Stein, report a likely LAL-Wiz trade involving el pendejo Kobe.

Are people trying to suddenly give credibility to the same sportswriters who overlooked this team in their preseason predictions?

Ray,

I agree that Kobe isn't coming here, but it has nothing to do with Grunfeld's IQ.

An NBA GM given the chance to acquire maybe the best, most talented player in the league, would be hard-pressed to pass on that opportunity. The problem is that there's really no good reason for Kobe to want to come here (which he'd have to do, because he has a no-trade clause). He wants to win a title, and the Wiz, even with Kobe, are not contenders.

On the Wiz's side, the sticking point is what they'd have to give up, in addition to Arenas, to make it work. No way in hell the Lakers take Etan. Gilbert and Caron might do it, but (A) that's too much to give up for the Wiz and (B) it weakens the post trade roster too much for it to be in any way attractive for Kobe to want to come here.

There's really no way to put the deal together so that it works for both sides.

Dear Wizards blog fans,

Don't read just anything and run with it..try to use some intelligence read

This is Sam Smith's article from the Chic. Tribune. He is one of the absolute best NBA sports writers and most knowledgable about MJ.
"Bulls talking about Bryant, but don't lose sleep over it"
Sam Smith | On Pro Basketball
October 29, 2007
Article tools

This looks like it could be one of the most important weeks in Bulls history. This is the week they may or may not trade for Kobe Bryant. I'm told this by sources who may or may not know.

And by the way, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

Sure, it's a stupid reference ("Saturday Night Live," mid-1970s). But this Bryant saga is getting more and more stupid.

I was contacted by an ESPN program Sunday asking if I'd be up early Monday to answer questions about the trade if Bryant is dealt to the Bulls Sunday night. I told them to sleep in too.

This is what I think is going on:

Bryant wants to be traded to the Bulls. (News flash there, eh?) The Bulls have a chance to obtain the best player in the NBA and are interested. (Who'd have imagined that?)

The Lakers have the best player in the NBA who doesn't want to play for them anymore, but he has two years left on his contract. They are mad at him after they gave him the best contract and the best coach in the league. OK, they said, we'll trade you. But we are running a team here. We know we can't get equal value, but we should get close, which means, say, at least one All-Star player and some pieces.

But Bryant has a no-trade clause, which limits where he can go, and he has decided on Chicago. OK, the Lakers say, we'll take four of their top guys, even though not one has been an All-Star.

No way, Bryant says--then they're worse than the Lakers. They also have to take Kwame Brown or some other stubble we have hanging around, the Lakers say. After all, you lose Bryant, you have to begin to rebuild, and we need financial relief.

So Bryant is mad at general manager Mitch Kupchak, who he believes is blocking a deal with unreasonable demands, and is talking only to Phil Jackson. Jackson is practically begging Bryant to play to enhance his value and make the Lakers feel more kindly. Bryant isn't in the mood. The Lakers want Bryant to drop the no-trade so they can open up the field and get a better deal. Bryant doesn't trust them.

No, this doesn't appear to be going anywhere for now. But it isn't about to go away.

COMMENTS WERE MADE TO SAM SMITH:
All hearsay...

Agent Zero going Hollywood?
One general manager on the periphery of the Bryant talks says he believes the "dark horse" to make a deal with the Lakers is the Washington Wizards. The consensus is the Wizards have hit a plateau, but have the star power in Gilbert Arenas to make a deal.

Arenas is talking about opting out of his contract after this season. He's from Los Angeles and has become a star, one of the league's highest-scoring players and an engaging personality who would embrace the Hollywood scene. He would meet the Lakers' demands for an All-Star player if they trade Bryant.

"Watch out for them," the general manager said, meaning the Wizards.

The Lakers probably would want a power forward, which the Wizards don't have. The biggest obstacle, though, may be Bryant's no-trade clause, along with the fact he hasn't indicated any interest in Washington. Still, with Bryant, Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler, the Wizards would have a three-star set that could match up in the East.

These were somebody else' remarks - Smith only referred to them

His remarks were anything but implying a Wi trade. Kobe wants to go to the Bulls and with his clause - he dictates where he goes..Wizards fans..get over it.

Look forward to hopefully winning season.

I haven't seen all the rumored particulars yet but here is my take on the Gil for Kobe thing...

As long as we keep Caron I would go for it. I think Kobe has a good 4-5 more years left in him and a change of scenery would be good for him. My biggest reason for saying go for it, despite Kobe's off the field rep and all that, is that on the court he has shown that he brings it on both ends. As much as we love what Gil has brought to us he does not. The only hesitation I have is the age difference but I think I'd still go for it. You only get a shot at a superstar every so often. Until Gil proves he can carry a team to the finals by playing on both ends of the court you don't hesitate to make the deal. He also brings leadership to the team and apparently Gilbert still shys away from that role. Those who should know seem to say that Jamison, Daniels and Caron are the leaders while Gil is clearly the best player. I am not sure this will work. Kobe would instantly take over as leader and will force everybody else to raise the levels of their play.

That's how I see it.

So, if it happens, we should get ready for quite a couple of seasons!

No one has said the trade is happening. But yes, it could happen. It seems Ray, Kalorama et al. are assuming that the Lakers will only trade Kobe for equal value. But it appears that that simply isn't the situation. If Kobe forces their hand, and refuses to play, or dogs it like Vince Carter did in Toronto, they'll have to make the best deal they can, no matter how badly it works out for them.

there's really no good reason for Kobe to want to come here (which he'd have to do, because he has a no-trade clause). He wants to win a title, and the Wiz, even with Kobe, are not contenders.

I disagree completely with this statement. If Antawn and Caron are here, with Daniels running the point, that's a team that in the East can make it to the finals. Not in the West, but definitely in the East. Most teams, like Chicago, would need to gut their rosters to get Kobe. The Wiz don't, because they've got a bigger chip than Chicago in Arenas. Dallas won't trade Dirk. Miami won't trade Wade. Cleveland won't trade LeBron. SA won't trade Duncan. Who does that leave? Maybe Phoenix and Amare, but I can't see LA trading Kobe to Phoenix.

I bet Kobe would rather go to Washington with Caron and Antawn than Chicago with, well, who?

Onl4Ml, I'm in a business that's very similar to the business of basketball, so don't presume you can school me. And you'd have to be pretty old to be my father.

No team will be able to offer Gil as good of terms as the Wiz, and if Gil follows the logic of the biggest payday he'll stay a Wizard. But bruise his ego and he might not follow that logic. He might leave for something less than the Wiz offer. This is a guy who decided Washington over LA on the flip of a coin last time around.

Prazak,
I am not certain whether the trade rumors would hurt or help Gilbert's play. In most cases I would agree but suspect Gil would see this trade as the best of all possible worlds. Traded for the undisputed best player in the game to return to his hometown and be the star of Los Angeles Lakers! Close to home, in the Hollywood spotlight...just imagine the blogs.

Gilbert is a great player but if this trade is possible it must be executed. The the only caveat is what else does it cost us? Butler is too high, but if it's for Blatche or Young we would have to do it. Frankly, I would be sadder about losing Young. He knows so little and yet the game is coming so easy to him, he is going to be a huge NBA star. Blatche would be painful, like the loss of a young Rasheed Wallace.
Say what you will about Kobe's personal life and personality but anybody who has watched him knows that, in addition to his immense physical talents, he is fierce competitor. We have a great group of players right now but, other than Butler, I don't see a lot of fire. Depending on how Kobe could integrate with the existing group, I believe this team could potentially win in the East. I just can't see this with our current roster.

Has Kobe even expressed even the slightest interest in playing in Washington? Remember that he's got veto power over any trade that the Lakers work out. I don't see him going to Chicago, either, because he wants to play for a contender and they'd have to give up their best two players (Gordon and Deng) to get him. I think the most likely scenario would have him going to Phoenix for the Matrix and Barbosa, because not only would the Lakers get two very good players, but Kobe would still get to play with Steve Nash and Amare.

if the wiz can get Kobe for nothing more than gil you'd better believe they'd do it (despite Ernie, they'd have to do it). You get the best player in the game for an immature "leader" who not only (as shocking as it seems, is protected by the GM and) thinks he's above team rules (often make the plane wait up to an hour for him to board) but also embarrasses teammates (who don't respond to him anyhow) and who happen to be out with him late night (pulling donuts in the middle of 9th street, drag racing...sound familiar???).
Eddie would love it, Antwawn would love it, Caron would love it.....
LA would self-destruct with Kwame and gil in the same locker room. That's right, Kwame is actually MORE mature AND a better teammate than gil.

Sorry, Kalorama, I didn't mean to imply you were favoring that trade. I was just curious what your opinion was since you knew the details of Kobe's contract.

Even if Kobe were to allow such a trade to go through I don't see why the Wiz would want to have him here for two years, unless they could agree to the terms of an extension up front. It would seem the better move to lock Gilbert down to a long-term k instead of trading him off for two years of Kobe.

"It seems Ray, Kalorama et al. are assuming that the Lakers will only trade Kobe for equal value. "

I'm assuming no such thing, for the simple reason that there is no such thing as equal value for Kobe. They're going to come out short no matter who they trade for, but that doesn't mean they won't try to get the best deal possible.

"If Antawn and Caron are here, with Daniels running the point, that's a team that in the East can make it to the finals."

But since the scenario I discussed involved trading both Arenas and Butler (at a minimum), then that really doesn't apply, even if what you say is true (and I have my doubts on that score). The Wiz might be any one of a half-dozen teams that could win the East, simply because the East is weak and wide open. But (A) they wouldn't be favorites by any means and (B) I doubt getting to the Finals and having his ass handed to him by whoever wins the West would do much to coll Kobe's discontent over not winning a title.

Folks, you are debating everything but the most important issue about the Kobe-Arenas deal:

Would Abe approve a trade of Arenas for Kobe?

I don't think he would, but if he did, emotionally it would be a very tough decision. It sounds like he is very, very fond of Gilbert, and would not trade just to chase after a better player.

I love Gilbert. It's fun to be a fan of his. He's a great player, but he's not the competitor or the defensive player that Kobe is.

If the Wiz can trade Gil and modest change for Kobe, they should absolutely do it. In my mind, Caron and Andray are untouchable. I would prefer to send DeShawn (after Dec. 15), Nick Young, or Etan in the package and possibly the Memphis pick. That's fair bait. Kobe would have plenty to play next to here. All the commenters in the SI site were forgetting about Andray, Caron, Antawn, and DMac. None of them is Shaq (and Brendan is Brendan), but the Wiz would still have a solid group.

And all the stuff about star power and putting the butts in the seats makes sense, too.

YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT THERE IS SOMETHING THAT MAKES SENSE ABOUT THIS TRADE. JUST DON'T GIVE UP CARON OR ANDRAY!

Are people seriously thinking Gil for Kobe is even on the table or do we all just have nothing to do at work?

for the record, i have nothing to do at work. but, for the sake of conversation, i'll just point out that the lakers aren't exactly sitting pretty with all the cards in their collective hand. they can't exactly bluff; everyone knows kobe wants out. and when they start losing, he's going to pout, whine, complain. every few minutes. this trade could definitely happen if, 20 games into the season, the wiz aren't getting it done, and everyone in l.a. finally wants to give kobe the industrial strength beating he deserves. personally, i'd want to keep gil over getting kobe, but i understand the temptation.

Ivan and others -

How about the Wizards signing Wayne Simien, just waived by Minnesota? He would probably come cheap and is young with the potential to be an inside banger. At the very least, he would add some frontcourt depth.

let's see, what do Kobe, DS and AB have in common?

Apparently LA wanted the best four Chicago players AND to force Chicago to take Kwame. This made Kobe furious.

If they're expecting Gil to sign a 7 year to make the deal then we should expect kobe to sign a 7 year as well. Otherwise they get Gil and we watch kobe bolt in 2 years and have to start all over again.

I wouldn't trade Blatche or Young or Stevenson. Hell, I'd say WE have the upper hand. They've got a franchise player who refuses to play and has thus hurt his own marketability. He has a "no trade" clause and is extremely particular about where he plays and who he plays with.

If they don't trade him for something of value they're going to lose him in 2 years and get NOTHING for the best player in the NBA. Chicago isn't budging for good reason.

As they get more desperate they might just take whatever they can get. He'll be worth a LOT less next year when he's only got one year left on his contract so they NEED to do a deal this year as long as he's unhappy, giving no effort on the court, and demanding a trade.

Don't disount your own hand.

Personally, I wouldn't want Kobe for two years at such a price. He'll be in NY or Chicago two years from now so why give away much of any of our gold for him?

It's amazing to me people are willing to risk Gil leaving at seasons end for Kobe who WILL opt out after next season and leave us with nothing. Second Kobe won't fit in our offense.Plus the trade puts us at the cap next year and may not be able to resign Jamison and stay under the lux tax. I'm also amazed people want to give up Blatche and or Nick Young and or 1st rd pick. Get the hell out of here. I would never give up potential stars or 1st rd picks with Gil for kobe, hell I don't think I'd give up Gil for Kobe straight up( i know it can't happen cause of $). If kobe resigns with us we still only get maybe 5yrs with him. Gil still has 7-10yrs left in him. Kobe has a lot of basketball years on his body. This is a stupid trade. Not to mention all Kobe would do is complain here like he has done in LA. Kobe is a locker room virus period. He complained when they were winning titles. I just can't get it out enough how bad this would be for the wizards.

The other reason this deal has almost no chance of happening is Arenas. Presumably he wants to win a title just as much as Kobe.

now, if people think (and rightly so) that the Wiz trading for Kobe when he has an opt out in two years is a risk, how much bigger a risk is it for the Lakers to trade for Gilbert, who has an opt out in 1 year? If the Lakers can't be serious contenders with Kobe as lead guard, does anyone think their chances of contending increase any with Arenas in that spot? If they keep Kobe, at least they get two more years out of him. They don't even have that guarantee with Arenas. And don't give me the "it's his home town team" nonsense. Players will happily give lip service to that, but when push comes to shove and they have to choose between playing for their home town on a team struggling to land the #7 or 8 playoff seed every year (which is where the Lakers are now and where they'd still be with Arenas) versus going somewhere else where they have a shot to actually win something, it's not even a contest.

I endorse Kalorama, DCW and the truth's comments. I don't necessarily believe that Kobe would be as bad in our locker room as he has become in the Lakers, but these three posts spell out all my reasons I would be against this deal.
Ernie needs to focus on using Jamison's contract to make a deal and improve this team (if there is a trade out there that can do that) and give Gilbert more of a reason to stay.

Kobe Bryant, whom I thoroughly enjoy watching play, can't come here. At least I don't want him to. I don't want him to become subject to the disgrace like MJ.

I don't want to give Abe Polin another Professional Black Man to castrate/ embarrass to the world. A viscious act he commited on M. Jordan - One I will never forget.

That incident should open the eyes & minds of every male athelete world wide but especially men of color.

I have no doubt - Arenas and his father have never forgotten.

Let Kobe stay with the crazy owner in LA or go to John Paxon and the Bulls.

Not here..

Arenas, I suspect is using Wiz for his "Self-Promotion and Publicity project" He was an average at best player prior to coming here. He needs it- he's just getting on his way..good for him. Kobe is so popular - why come here to be disgraced by an old dinasour?

DT, that's slander of the highest order. Abe Pollin is as far from a racist as one can get. Do you not know that one of his favorite people in the world is Wes Unseld? That comment is so idiotic that I can scarcely believe you made it. Jordan pushed himself out of town by being lazy and incompetent. He never moved to D.C., even when he was supposed to be running the team. He just wasn't very interested in his job, according to all accounts.

Eddie Jordan's has more tenure than any coach in the conference. Probably his favorite player on the team now is Jamison. He's had a great relationship with almost all of his players, both white and black. Just because he had friction with MJ doesn't mean he's a racist. There's too much evidence to the contrary.

"Kobe Bryant, whom I thoroughly enjoy watching play, can't come here. At least I don't want him to. I don't want him to become subject to the disgrace like MJ.

I don't want to give Abe Polin another Professional Black Man to castrate/ embarrass to the world. A viscious act he commited on M. Jordan - One I will never forget.

That incident should open the eyes & minds of every male athelete world wide but especially men of color."

No offense and nothing personal, but that entire statement is nonsense of the highest order.

Pollin paid Jordan a hefty amount of money to build his sad sack of a franchise into a winner. Jordan failed.

He failed to make a difference as a GM, making terrible draft picks, signing off on foolish trades, wasting FA money, and hiring his own personal puppet/lapdog as an ineffectual coach (not to mention the fact that half the time couldn't even be bothered to actually come to the city where the team played and watch them perform).

He failed to make a difference as a player, choosing to stroke his own ego and Peter Pan yearnings to recapture faded on-court glory and creating an unreasonably pressure-filled "win-now" atmosphere at the expense of letting the young players grow and properly develop.

Aside for boosting ticket sales by luring in fans just as desperate to relive the past as Jordan himself, almost nothing he did for the Wizards franchise yielded positive results. Pollin was under no kind of obligation, legal, moral, ethical, or otherwise to give a new contract to an employee who so utterly failed in every aspect of his job.

The only person who embarrassed Jordan during his tenure with the Wizards was Jordan himself.

While I do not believe Abe Pollin to a racist, the fact that one of his favorite people in the world is Wes Unseld does not mean that he is or is not. Racism has to do with a sense of superiority etc., not a hatred. Now one can express that sense of superiority through hatred or in other ways (liberals are said to love black people to death). Just a note of reality and truism... One other thing, if you figureout the true meaning of racism you will immediately realize there is probably some in most.

"While I do not believe Abe Pollin to a racist, the fact that one of his favorite people in the world is Wes Unseld does not mean that he is or is not."

The fact that he refused to offer Michael Jordan a contract extension to do a job he'd already proven (and has recently proven again) himself incapable of performing well does not that mean he is.

The bottom line is that neither you, me, nor anyone else around here has any idea what goes on in Pollins head or heart. We can only know his actions. And there is nothing apparent in anything he has done in all his years as Bullets/Wizards owner that even begins to justify slandering him as a racist, least of all the fact that he told Jordan to take a hike.

"Kobe is so popular - why come here to be disgraced by an old dinasour?"

Especially when he does such a nice job disgracing himself by having sex (consensual or otherwise) with random hotel employees, slamming his teammates in rambling parking lot tirades, and losing what little credibility he still has by constantly talking out of both sides of his mouth regarding his desire to be traded.