The year of Kobe....

Until Kobe Bryant gets moved, rumors about where he's headed are going to circulate through the NBA and today, those rumors found Washington. In today's Chicago Tribune, Sam Smith threw the possibility out there (via an unnamed GM) that the Wiz are a "dark horse" candidate to land Kobe. Of course, any Wiz package would have to include Gilbert Arenas. And that's a big problem.

Ernie Grunfeld shot down any possibility of a Kobe/Gilbert swap when I talked to him earlier this evening.
"I don't normally comment on rumors but there is no truth to this rumor," Grunfeld said. "We've never had any conversations with the Lakers or with anyone else about Gilbert."

I heard the same from other folks with knowledge of the situation so I really don't know what to make of Sam's speculation or similar speculation via Marc Stein at www.espn.com. Now, in terms of Sam, I'll say this: my man Sam had Kevin Garnett traded to the Bulls around 1,500 times over the last few years. I think he had Iverson moved nearly half as often. That's Sam's job: talk to folks around the league and throw out possible trade situations when he hears them. As any reporter will tell you, there are 5,000 "source" rumors for every trade that actually goes down. In the NBA, where many voices are whispering sweet nothings in many an ear, rumor is a way of life.

Here's why I don't see a Kobe/Wiz deal going down:

1. Kobe has a no-trade clause, a hefty trade kicker and it appears that his heart is set on Chicago. Now, if something floats out in the next few days that Kobe secretly loves the Redskins, has always wanted to visit Mount Vernon and really digs trips the Smithsonian when visiting the DC, you'll know that there something is to this rumor. Believe this: Kobe is driving all of this and we'll all know soon enough if he wants out of LA bad enough to step off the windy city and flirt with chocolate city. Until then, it's all talk. Now, if Kobe shows up to practice tomorrow wearing a Caron Butler jersey........

2. Would the Lakers really give up Kobe for a guy who is coming off of knee surgery and can opt out of his deal next summer? Where would that put them in a Western Conference that is top heavy with the Spurs, Suns, Mavs, Nuggets, Jazz and Rockets?

3. I would assume that if the Lakers are doing their jobs, they would demand Andray Blatche in any deal involving Kobe and that isn't going to happen, not based on the things Blatche showed in preseason. You don't trade 6-11, 260-pound 21-year olds with that skill set and a five-year contract that is only running you $15 million.
Not in a conference that has LeBron, Luol Deng, Rasheed, KG, Dwight Howard, Chris Bosh, Rashard Lewis, Zach Randolph, Gerald Wallace, Josh Smith and assorted other matchup nightmares lurking in every corner. If Blatche reaches his potential, he gives you a five-tool almost 7-footer who is just scratching the surface. Hard to trade that, even for Kobe.

Now, as we all know, things can change and that's why the first three months of this season are going to be so interesting. By February, the Wizards should have a feel for where Gilbert is on that knee and have a feel for how the rotation is coming together. If Gilbert does his thing and the big three stay healthy and Blatche continues to come along, the Wiz should be one of the top two or three teams in the East and there would be no reason to blow it all up by trying to land Kobe. Also, we'll know just how hungry Kobe is to go somewhere.

My educated guess is that the Lakers will sit back, see how Kobe reacts early in the season and evaluate their options come February. I do have a feeling that it's going to kill him watching KG play with Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. Thing is, KG was put into prison by Kevin McHale while Kobe pretty much did it to himself.

By Ivan Carter |  October 29, 2007; 9:09 PM ET
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First

Posted by: Natein LA | October 29, 2007 10:55 PM

You're rpobably right Ivan, and I would have a HELLUVA time rooting for Kobe. I live in LA and he is easy to despise when you're surrounded by Laker fans. But we can dream a little. The only thing I see is the fact that the money doesn't even up, which means other players need to be involved... and besides the fact that Kobe has 3-Shaq fed rings, they're pretty darn even.
Kobe is the best though, and for any Wizards fan to turn up their nose at the thought of Kobe in Copper Orange and, er... like Royal Bluish Grey (what are those colors?)... let's be honest, we'd love to have him.
With or without Agent Zero (remember guys, he's opting out, and he's not exactly predicable).
NY

Posted by: Nate in LA | October 29, 2007 10:59 PM

thank you Ivan, I have been stewing all day long hearing people say they want Kobe and all this. I would not make this trade. And thanks for backing up my boy Dray because that is exactly what I was thinking as well. No way Gil and Dray for Kobe.

Posted by: LooseCannon | October 29, 2007 11:05 PM

Thank you Ivan, I personaly think Kobe in DC is a horible idea. Kobe is a great player but with Blatche developing the way he is and if he continues we could seriously contend for the east title.

Posted by: the truth | October 29, 2007 11:12 PM

I really can't see Kobe wanting to play here. The whole thing sounds like kind of a non-starter.

Posted by: Mitch | October 29, 2007 11:31 PM

I disagree that KG was put into prison by Kevin McHale. He put himself into prison with his 20+ million contract. It is tough, if not impossible to build a solid supporting cast around a superstar when they make up over 1/3rd of the salary cap. Kobe has found himself in the same situation that KG was in. Unless the owner is willing to go into lux cap land, which Boston will be knee deep in for the next however many years, the team will have mediocre players around a superstar, and waste his talents.

I'm afraid Gilbert is going to do the same to the Wiz next off-season. Which makes me think, didn't he write in his blog that he didn't want a max contract because he would end up like AI, or KG and not be able to have a supporting cast to help him get to a championship? Gil is great and all, but he is not KG or Kobe, and if he had their supporting casts the Wizards would be lottery bound every year.

Posted by: Anonymous | October 29, 2007 11:37 PM

"It is tough, if not impossible to build a solid supporting cast around a superstar when they make up over 1/3rd of the salary cap."

The Spurs, Heat, and Lakers (with Shaq) managed win title's with maxed out stars. Garnett's contract was not the main problem for the T'Wolves, McHale's inept management of the team's finances and assets outside of Garnett is what did them in.

That utterly insane, under the table deal with Joe Smith cost them 3 or 4 first round picks, which not only killed any chance of acquiring and developing young talent to grow along with KG, but it also robbed them of important trade assets, severely limiting their flexibility to make deals. That lack of flexibility led to his next dumb move, signing an aging, injury prone Terrell Brandon to a big contract extension that made it impossible for them to re-sign Chauncey Billups, only to watch Brandon get hurt (again) and be forced into retirement because of injuries soon after.

Garnett's contract was the least of their problems. McHale should have been fired years ago.

Posted by: kalorama | October 30, 2007 12:32 AM

Yeah, everyone has to remember when they could've been building talent around Garnett, McHale did some more than questionable moves. The one that always sticks out in my head was losing three draft picks because an under the table Joe Smith deal.

Posted by: Steve | October 30, 2007 12:57 AM

I disagree Ivan. I disagree specifically with this assumption: "I would assume that if the Lakers are doing their jobs, they would demand Andray Blatche in any deal involving Kobe."

First, Blatche can not be traded until December. I guess its possible Gil/Kobe swap could take place after Dec 15, but I would find that unlikely. I think joining the team mid-season would make Gilbert much more likely to jump ship in LA after this season.

But more importantly, I don't think the Wizards have to include Blatche for this trade to still make sense for the Lakers. Unless the Bulls actually do end up offering that ridiculous Deng/Gordon/Thomas/Noah package that's been thrown around the past few days (what would the point be anymore for Kobe?) I don't think the Lakers can do better than Mr. Arenas.

They are not going to compete for an NBA title this year or next. Kobe's probably gone after two years if they don't trade him. So the Lakers have a strong incentive to move Kobe. How are they going to do better than a 25 year old from Southern California who's good for 29 a game? Wouldn't you rather have Gilbert to build around than Ben Gordon and Tyrus Thomas? I would think if anything, the Lakers would have to give up more to get Gilbert (say by taking on Etan's contract).

I realize that there probably is no basis in reality for this rumor, but I would not be surprised if a trade like this went down. I think its the only proposed Kobe deal that makes sense (or even might make sense) for both teams. Weren't the Wiz also supposedly on Kobe's "list"?


I'm not sure if its the right move or not, but EG has to think hard about it.


P.S., in regards to Etan's recent response to your blog post. I think I can safely speak for most fans when I say we're on your side. Keep up the good work Ivan.

Posted by: Mike | October 30, 2007 2:06 AM

"They are not going to compete for an NBA title this year or next. Kobe's probably gone after two years if they don't trade him."

And Gilbert would be gone after one if he gets traded there and the Lakers finish the season at the bottom of the conference or in the lottery (both very real possibilties).

"I would think if anything, the Lakers would have to give up more to get Gilbert (say by taking on Etan's contract)."

We've now officially entered the realm of "crazy talk."

The idea that the Lakers would have to take on some of the Wizards' crap contracts as incentive to get Washington to take Kobe off their hands is pure fan-based wishful thinking.

Any Arenas for Kobe deal would start with the Lakers demanding that either Butler or Blatche be included. And it would also likely end there, when Grunfeld correctly determines that's too much to give up.

Posted by: kalorama | October 30, 2007 3:50 AM

Hey, Mike. No, the wiz are not on Kobe's "list". Phoenix, Dallas, and Chicago, in that order, is the "list". That's why the media is trying their best to create a trade scenario because Phoenix is not making a play for him. Mark Cuban came out and said he's not making a play for him. And the Bulls are rejecting that whole half the team for Kobe deal for now.(I say for now because when the Bulls start losing games cause Ben Gordon transformed into John Starks, they'll just replace Thomas or Noah with money and picks and beg L.A. for Kobe.) I have no doubt in my mind that Gil finishes the season as a Wizard (Even though I don't think Brendan or Eddie Jordan will). My only question is, does Ernie really believe Gil would re-sign with us after his opt-out? If he's just trying to get paid, we can offer him the most and there's not a lot of good quality teams that he can go to and still be in the title hunt. Sure, he can rebuild a franchise but lets be real, the Wiz didn't become a playoff team until Jamison brought his leadership to the team. And Ernie has basically built this whole team around him. So it all depends on Gil if he wants to continue his career in the DMV.

Posted by: C.Bell | October 30, 2007 6:01 AM

Sorry Mike, you don't speak for most Wizards fans- so why even try? Say that you are on his side. I myself am on nobody's side in this matter. As far as basketball is concerned, I would be very disappointed if the trade for Kobe went down. I want to like my team and my devotion to the Wiz is nowhere as strong as it is for my Cowboys. I don't think it would withstand having to give up the first player I genuinely root for... for someone I despise as the opposition. Would he make the team better? Yes, improved defense- better PG distribution (from a starting Daniels) we don't have to watch DeShawn try to feel his face... but I just don't like Kobe's "apparent" personality.

Posted by: KD - Hyattsville | October 30, 2007 6:05 AM

Well, if you read Etan's response carefully and do some research you'll realize Etan is completely wrong (he didn't even read the entire article he quoted) and Ivan is completely right. There's no need to take sides, the facts speak for themselves.

I didn't know Kobe's contract has a trade kicker. Smeg that.

Posted by: Zonker | October 30, 2007 7:29 AM

I can't stand Kobe and I am a DIEHARD Wiz fan. But, if this trade was to materialize, I hate to say it, but I would most DEFINITELY switch to another team. NO TO KOBE AS A WIZARD. Besides, I don't think he would want to play here anyway. Everyone it seems to me has blown this Gil opt out situation way out of proportion. Wade and Lebron both opted out. And for what, to get a longer heftier paycheck and that is what I think Gil is after. Do I hate on Gil for that? Not at all. I would think something was wrong with him if he didn't! Most posters seem to hate on the fact that he like so many other players want to get max contracts. Me, if I were in that situation, I would too and DAMN all of the haters!

Posted by: Anonymous | October 30, 2007 7:31 AM

LUXURY TAX! Does anyone really think Abe would go over the limit for Kobe? Determine Kobe's new salary, then start adding the pieces that would need to be traded to both balance it AND allow the Wiz to "flesh out" the roster with 12 players. They'd probably need to resign all the guys that were in camp at minimums.

Posted by: lrmc623 | October 30, 2007 7:33 AM

Glad you finally put an end to this. It was getting old reading about this trade possibility. I really wish people would use this space for trades that could actually happen. These 'Wilt Chamberlain for Haywood' type trades are ridiculous.

Posted by: mark | October 30, 2007 7:35 AM

Not clue how you got this: "Ernie Grunfeld shot down any possibility of a Kobe/Gilbert swap when I talked to him earlier this evening."

from this

"I don't normally comment on rumors but there is no truth to this rumor," Grunfeld said. "We've never had any conversations with the Lakers or with anyone else about Gilbert."

No wonder Etan is so mad at you

Posted by: Gregors | October 30, 2007 7:41 AM

I just read that the Redskins Insider is going to start registration on Wednesday so that no one can hijack usernames, post anonymously, etc. Great news for them. Ivan, are we gonna get that started over here, too? Maybe that will force some people to post responsibly and cut back on the personal attacks. I've disagreed with many a poster here but it's always been a respectful disagreement. Finally, you can start blocking people who act like juveniles. Mr. BWAHAHA, I think your day is coming....finally.

Posted by: mark | October 30, 2007 7:46 AM

Mike or Ivan, how much was Michael Jordan paid in his last three years with the Bulls?
If I remember right, he signed for $2M or less because he wanted the team to have better players around him. And he was making most of his money in endorsements anyway.
For pure idle speculation - would Gil do something like that? Would Kobe do something like that?

Posted by: rgz | October 30, 2007 8:00 AM

I think the trade kicker is what would kill any proposed Kobe deal, like lrmc623 said. I didn't realize Kobe had that in the deal. Abe won't touch that. Although I would do the deal if Caron and Jamison didn't go, and might not if Blatche had to be part of the package either.

So the Wiz' next priority is getting the team to play some defense, beginning with Mr. Arenas -- time to put your money where your mouth is if you want a max contract, my man.

Posted by: Keithinator | October 30, 2007 8:09 AM

"I don't normally comment on rumors but there is no truth to this rumor..."

Now will all you Gilbert Arenas haters please stop the Kobe nonsense?

Gilbert is a genuine NBA super star around the country and all you guys want to do is trade him. Makes me wonder who the real Wizard fans are on here.

Complete nonsense.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | October 30, 2007 8:26 AM

As much as I like th idea of people wanting to play defense, this league markets scorers. ESPN highlights show shots, not steals or rebounds or defense. In defense of the players, if i was coming into the league and was trying to make a name for myself, I'd concentrate on scoring, too. Once I got the max contract, I'd try to balance my game out a little bit. Does anyone here think Jamison was EVER known for defense? No, he got that money because of his stats. We all want to win but we should probably be a little more understanding about this. It's a business first for these guys. They have a small window and want to make as much money as they can during this window. The average NBA career is probably only 5 years or so (just a guess). Though no one in the league will say this, it's about getting paid first and winning second. 10 years from now, no one cares about how many games Arenas or anyone else won. But he still has to pay his bills. As I've said before on this blog, I doubt we have the commitment to defense that all of the fans would like. We didn't even commit or an entire preseason. I just hope we can at least score enough to win our share of games and maybe we can turn up the D in the playoffs. I'm an eternal Wiz optimist and predict 45-50 wins. My only fear is that in ignoring offense this preseason, we didn't hurt the O for a D that we'll never really stick with.

Posted by: mark | October 30, 2007 8:39 AM

Just wondering: What are the "five tools" for basketball players? I know them for baseball.

Posted by: Lindemann | October 30, 2007 9:16 AM

Dribbling, shooting, passing, rebounding, cashing your check

Posted by: mark | October 30, 2007 9:23 AM

...which would make Kwame Brown a 1-tool player. I can't bash that dude enough.

Posted by: mark | October 30, 2007 9:28 AM

Good point by Gregors above about drawing a broader conclusion from Grunfeld's quote.

RGZ, Jordan made around $25 or $30 million per season in his last couple with the Bulls because in those days, there was no luxury tax, and no limit to how much a team could pay to resign their Bird free agents at that time (which is why Garnett has that monster contract).

Posted by: Sean | October 30, 2007 9:34 AM

Good point by Gregors above about drawing a broader conclusion from Grunfeld's quote.

RGZ, Jordan made around $25 or $30 million per season in his last couple with the Bulls because in those days, there was no luxury tax, and no limit to how much a team could pay to resign their Bird free agents at that time (which is why Garnett has that monster contract).

Posted by: Sean | October 30, 2007 09:34 AM

Thanks Sean. Then my memory's bad and my idle speculation irrelevant.

Posted by: rgz | October 30, 2007 9:53 AM

Ray,

Take it easy, guy. Wanting to trade Gil for Kobe doesn't make anyone a "Gilbert hater." That's ludicrous. It also doesn't make you less of a Wizards fan. In fact, as a fan, I want my team to be better. Which is why I would love a Gil and spare parts (not Jamison, Caron or Andray) for Kobe trade.

Look, the fact is that Kobe is better than Gil. But he's not worth Gil/Caron or Gil/Blatche, IMO. Wanting to assemble the best team you can doesn't make you an Arenas hater or fake fan. Please stop with the invective.

Posted by: Keithinator | October 30, 2007 9:56 AM

Brian Chase is available, is there any interest from the Wizards?

Posted by: rgz | October 30, 2007 10:12 AM

This team is below average without Gil.
They can not compete without Gilbert controlling the offense.
He is their dynamic, and makes AJ and Caron possible.
Young does offer alternatives down the road, and the core is getting stronger, but no Gil, no competitiveness, for now.

Posted by: mrcklen | October 30, 2007 10:19 AM

even without kobe's trade kicker, we'd have to trade almost 6 mil more in salary to work under the nba trade rules. and we'd have to trade around 10+ mil in salary on top of gil to not go over the luxury tax threshold if you count kobe's kicker.

so that basically means we'd either have to trade arenas and jamison (and take a crappy salary back in return), or we have to package arenas with thomas or butler and one other low salary.

makes the whole thing basically impossible. after dec. 15th, options open up. both blatche and stevenson (wouldn't need him if he have kobe) become available.

then a deal of arenas, thomas, and stevenson for kobe and farmer/crittenton would work salary-wise. it would give the lakers a full line-up. and leave us basically with a hole at the 1, though daniels is a pass first player so would work well with kobe (if only daniels had an outside shot).

this would allow us to still resign jamison after the season, too.

the only problem with this whole thing is i'd have to cheer for kobe. considering i haven't liked him since even before he forced a trade on draft day, it would be very difficult.....

Posted by: JC | October 30, 2007 10:52 AM

Whether were real fans or not - this blog is "open" Don't recall anyone saying that ones fellow bloggers have the right to tell one "what their opinion should be"

Sorry Ray, seems you need a reality check. Its called "democracy" and freedom of speech. Last time I checked it was anyway. If you feel you "need" to control someones thoughts, opinions or ideas..perhaps you need prayer or meds.

Thats the whole beauty of an open blog..
everybody gets to contribute...If everybody was only positive - that wouldn't be real life.

If you want to change the topic cuz the thought of Arenas being traded is too painful for you..by all means do so.

Posted by: Bill | October 30, 2007 11:46 AM

"Now will all you Gilbert Arenas haters please stop the Kobe nonsense?

Gilbert is a genuine NBA super star around the country and all you guys want to do is trade him. Makes me wonder who the real Wizard fans are on here.

Complete nonsense.

- Ray"

Aside form the obvious problem of you attacking anyone who disagrees with your position on the trade issue, the bigger problem with this little rant is that it's a wild overreaction , given that the people who actually want the trade to happen are pretty significantly outnumbered by the people who don't want it to happen and/or think it doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of happening.

Posted by: kalorama | October 30, 2007 12:08 PM

Like I said on this board yesterday, no chance this deal will ever happen...

Now back to hating Etan Thomas.

Posted by: Barno | October 30, 2007 12:40 PM

I agree with Ray!
Would Kobe fit our offense? NO
Would Kobe complain the whole time about his teammates lack of defense? yes
Would Kobe cause us to be at the lux tax? yes

At least Gils disruptions are confidence based. Kobes is just about kobe being selfish. Kobe would not upgrade us that much. Gil is just as good a scorer as Kobe, Kobe is a better defensive player but the team has to play better D also. Haywood isn't going to be a better defensive player cause of Kobe. So pretty much this trade in the end would be the start of a rebuilding process. Kobe is a peice of sh*t who only cares about Kobe. If for some reason we could do this straight up I still would say NO!!!!!

Posted by: the truth | October 30, 2007 12:40 PM

Interesting the Nets are also going with 13 players.

From the Post:
"What it does for us is that it gives us roster flexibility," Stefanski said. "We now have 13 guys, and the max you can have is 15. We feel good about that flexibility going forward."
There are no immediate plans to fill either roster spot, Stefanski said.

rgz posted above that Chase is available? Was he cut by the Heat? I'd still be interested him in if possible.


Hey Ivan, when are the Wizards unveiling their Alternates for this season??

Posted by: Darnell | October 30, 2007 12:44 PM

Could we potentially deal Gil for Kobe, then re-sign Arenas this offseason as a FA when Jamison comes off the books??

Posted by: Darnell | October 30, 2007 12:45 PM

I'm split on this issue. I understand why Ray would want to stop reading about trading a guy who actually wanted to play in DC and almost singlehandedly helped revitalize the team. On the other hand, everyone here is entitled to their opinion. I'm of the 'snowball in hell' opinion. I just can't see it happening. If GA hadn't gotten hurt, maybe. It's too big a risk on LA's part til he proves he's the same player he was before the injury. I'd rather roll the dice with what we have. Chemistry is a big issue with teams and we seem to have it here.

Posted by: mark | October 30, 2007 12:46 PM

I just realized that a post about opening game tomorrow night would probably be considered off topic here LOL.

Anyway, some of you may realize that opening game is tomorrow night at Indiana. Last night I saw an interview with Jim O'Brien the new (I think) Indiana coach. He basically said that he wants to stress an open offense with his guys getting out and running as much as possible. Sounds like something the Wiz should enjoy and be able to take advantage of. And should be a fun game if O'Brien's true to his word. Wiz win opener- you heard it here first.

Posted by: Mitch | October 30, 2007 12:47 PM

The truth, You have to admit kobe is top-3 in the league and is a tremendous competitor and talent. He's proven that over the years. He's selfish on the team he's on because his options are to shoot or pass to Odom, Kwame, Walton, etc. I'd shoot too if i wanted to win. people that played with MJ said he was the same...he was hard to get along with, etc. Either way, i would rather have GA but on the court, Kobe is 'the truth'. I think he gets more respect from the refs, too. That alone makes him better offensively than GA. He'll get calls that GA won't.

Posted by: mark | October 30, 2007 12:51 PM

yeah, Mitch. Obrien wants to get Tinsley out in the open court and start running. I noticed in preseason they were scoring more. It should be 110-102, Wiz.

Posted by: mark | October 30, 2007 12:52 PM

No one said Ray and others aren't entitled to their opinion. But Ray seems to believe that those who would trade for Kobe -- with the right kind of deal, of course -- are somehow not "real" fans, and are "Arenas haters", as if the only possible reason you could want Kobe here was if you hated Arenas.

That's just drivel. I think Arenas is a terrific player, and I'm delighted he's in Washington. After all, I predicted a 51-31 record this year with Gil leading the way. But just because I think having Kobe here is a good idea in terms of wins, it doesn't follow that I hate Gilbert.

Posted by: Keithinator | October 30, 2007 12:58 PM

"That alone makes him better offensively than GA. He'll get calls that GA won't.

Getting calls isn't really an issue for Arenas. He's been one of the top players in the NBA in FT attempts per game for the last 3 years.

Posted by: kalorama | October 30, 2007 1:00 PM

I don't think the Pacers really have the personnel to do a lot of running. And O'Brien's never been a run-n-gun type coach. But he does get his teams to play defense, so it should be an interesting game. Hope Gil gets hot early.

Posted by: Keithinator | October 30, 2007 1:00 PM

Yeah, I found the idea of O'Brien coaching an uptempo running style to be a little dubious. He's a grind-it-out, defensive guy. And the Pacers roster isn't exactly filled with high-octane explosive athletic players.

Posted by: kalorama | October 30, 2007 1:07 PM

Thats my point - you can want to alter, upgrade, change or trade all for the sake of the almighty W-I-N and hopes of a championship.

I say give us some space - we're not exactly ESPN, Buchantz, Stein, Hallander or Sam Smith. Sometimes we might be better but we are human subject to error.

I say bring on the season!!! Let the best man win it all... May we be privileged to remain standing!!!!
I love the way the blog is now...I've learned to maneuver, filter, if you will around DCMan when he gets his moments - as it appears most have...

I would be sad to see a few of our players gone (a couple can certainly go)but for the most part - I understand. Its a money/power driven business so folks will say goodbye for a buck. But this blog will exist with or without one of us..providing carter & lee maintain things..Lets enjoy it without chastising and bickering..
Life has a way of being "short"

Posted by: Bill | October 30, 2007 1:24 PM

Mark, I think your getting calls post is way off base Gil avg 21 freethrows per game and Kobe 22. And do you think his options would be different in DC hell no. Not to mention the princeton is an offense Kobe has never been in. He only knows the triangle where he is the total focus of the offense. And the only truth to kobe is he is a lockeroom virus. If he is so determind on winning why did he want to break up the lakers when they were dominating the league? I do agree he is I'd say the best PLAYER in the league but far from the best team player.

Posted by: the truth | October 30, 2007 1:28 PM

I'm a DCMan 88 hater.

Posted by: DCMan 88's Mom | October 30, 2007 1:34 PM

In a clutch situation, you guys don't think that Kobe would get the benefit of the doubt over GA? I think GA forces the refs to call stuff because he attacks and drives the ball up guys' chests. kobe gets away with more stuff i thought. The difference may be negligible. A couple years ago when LeBron traveled and made that layup over Ruffin, he got a few major calls in that series. would GA have gotten that call? I think there are star calls and Superstar calls. Ga gets one while Kobe gets the other.

Posted by: mark | October 30, 2007 1:44 PM

the truth, it's time to check your stats. Kobe averaged 10 FT/game last year, Gil 9.7/game. That's pretty much a wash.

Posted by: Keithinator | October 30, 2007 1:45 PM

Keithinator, good call I was looking at field goals instead my bad.

Posted by: the truth | October 30, 2007 1:51 PM

"I think there are star calls and Superstar calls. Ga gets one while Kobe gets the other."

But since they both averaged essentially the same number of FTs per game, the net difference between "star" vs "superstar" is pretty much nonexistent.

Posted by: kalorama | October 30, 2007 2:09 PM

Chase was one of Riley's final cuts, but they kept 15, including Penny H., so he really didn't come that close to making the team.

Ivan, do the Wizards have enough cap room left to sign him? He played well in Vegas, if I remember, and Gil and Antonio are the only guards left on the roster capable of playing the point.

Posted by: John Brisker | October 30, 2007 2:09 PM

The number of free throws might be a bit misleading. I think Gil probably goes to the hole a little more than Kobe. Kobe is definitely more spectacular when he gets there but Gil's game is setting people up with the jumper and then driving by when they get too close. I'd be willing to bet Gil gets more contac than Kobe. On a side note, AD leads the league in floor burns per minute. Extrapolated out to 48 minutes, he's at about a fall per 10 minutes.

Posted by: mark | October 30, 2007 2:17 PM

"The number of free throws might be a bit misleading."

What's "misleading" about it? You get calls by drawing contact. They both get essentially the same amount of calls. How, when, why they get them is beside the point. Each FT still only counts for one point.

"I think Gil probably goes to the hole a little more than Kobe."

Last season, about 23% of Kobe's overall FG attempts were 3 point attempts. Arena's 3 point attempts accounted for 37% of his overall shot attempts.

Posted by: kalorama | October 30, 2007 2:27 PM

Well, K. The difference to me was the criticality of the call. getting a call in the first quarter is a heck of a lot different from getting one when the game is on the line.

Posted by: mark | October 30, 2007 2:27 PM

Well said, Bill. I really enjoy the info and exchange on this blog, even if it's necessary to sift through the not infrequent puddles of crap and bile. Everyone has the right to be full of crap now and then, but maybe a registration requirement could cut down on some of the bile.

Posted by: Prazak | October 30, 2007 2:28 PM

"Well, K. The difference to me was the criticality of the call. getting a call in the first quarter is a heck of a lot different from getting one when the game is on the line."

Are you implying that Gilbert doesn't get calls when the game is on the line? Because if you watched Wizards games last season, you'd know that that's simply untrue.

Posted by: kalorama | October 30, 2007 2:33 PM

Kalorama, I would add that LA's offense flows through Kobe more than Washington's attach flows through Gil. Kobe probably has the ball in his hands more than Gil, and defenses are able to focus on him more, since he doesn't enjoy the same three-pronged attack Gilbert does. So if anything Kobe might be expected to get relatively more calls than Gil, and the fact that he's getting roughly the same number of calls makes it that much harder to argue that he's getting extra calls.

Having said that, Mark may have a point about getting those crunch-time calls. Gil went flying through the lane a lot last year expecting to get those calls at the end of the game and didn't get them, when you could watch LeBron get those same calls.

Posted by: Prazak | October 30, 2007 2:35 PM

I don't mean to say Gil didn't get those calls, only that he didn't get them as consistently as LeBron. There were at least four or five games where Gil didn't get that call in the final seconds. I didn't watch enough Lakers to know whether Kobe got them or not.

Posted by: Prazak | October 30, 2007 2:38 PM

This is off topic but here's the link to the new NBA/ESPN Commercial with Gil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlMuXUju5N8

The rest of the commercials are on the truehoop front page:

http://myespn.go.com/nba/truehoop

Posted by: David N. | October 30, 2007 2:44 PM

"There were at least four or five games where Gil didn't get that call in the final seconds"

Which means nothing. No player gets every call every time, not Kobe, not Shaq, Not Duncan, not Lebron. The fact is that Arenas gets his fair share of calls in crunch time, as the overall record of games played clearly shows.

Remember the playoffs two years ago against the Cavs. Game 5? Closing seconds of the deciding game against superstar Lebron James? Where was Gilbert in the final seconds with the game's outcome hanging in the balance? (Yeah, we all know how it turned out, but the fact remains that in a big playoff game against a league mandated superstar, Gilbert got the call.)

"I would add that LA's offense flows through Kobe more than Washington's attach flows through Gil."

Yet (assuming this is even true) they still get the same number of FT attempts, thus putting the lie to the theory that Kobe has some kind of significant advantage in calls over Gilbert.

Posted by: kalorama | October 30, 2007 2:44 PM

as far as kobe only being selfish cuz he has less than stellar teammates...let's not all forget the tempertantrums he started to throw back when they were winning championships and had shaq.....

kobe has the killer instinct like jordan. he wants to be the best. not just win, but be the best. why does he want to go to chicago? because he wants to win more championships there and overshadow jordan in his own city.

nothing wrong with that. frankly, it's what makes him such a great individual player. i think the key difference between the two are that jordan cared about winning so badly and realized he needed a full team and a coach to do so. kobe i think cares a little more about being the man.

of course this is all speculation, and my opinion. and it's hard to say how jordan would have dealt with a salary cap/luxury tax league.

but kobe had a chance to go to the clippers back when brand was healthy and one of the best pf in the game. he chose to stay on the more marketable team with clearly less talent, knowing that he salary alone would strap them from making any more big moves.

maybe it was team loyalty...but considering how he's acting now, i doubt it.

Posted by: JC | October 30, 2007 2:55 PM

Kal, that was my point: with Kobe on the ball more and taking more field goals one would expect he'd get more calls than Gil. But in fact he gets roughly the same number.

It'shard to measure who gets more crunch-time calls and memory is selective. You're right about the Cavs game but there were a few times last year when Gil didn't get those end-of-game calls and I couldn't help but think that LeBron or DWade would have. Remembering is a subjective thing, but I don't think I was imagining that. Phil Chenier even commented on it a couple times as it was happening.

Posted by: Prazak | October 30, 2007 3:10 PM

I gotta agree with Ray and all the other trade-haters. I guess I'm old-school, but I like it when teams show a little loyalty to their players (and vica-versa). And I agree with Ray that FANS ought to show a little loyalty to the team and the players (and vica-versa). And, coincidentally or not, the best managed teams (Spurs, Patriots) seem to take that approach as well.

Posted by: reispace | October 30, 2007 3:29 PM

Actually, JC, If you read Sam Smith's book "The Jordan Rules." Smith was the "Ivan Carter" to the Bulls at that time.
He was very close to Jordan and the book gives you great insight into Jordan, the Bulls and more importantly "how" they managed to win their championships.

He was not the "best teammate." In fact, his teammates hated him. The ultimate influencing factor was "Phil Jackson"
Jackson eventually figured out how to motivate, maneuver and manage Jordan's attitude, talent and skills from very young until he left.

Because of Jackson,Jordan learned along the way - "he needed folks" - always stressed "team". At one point, Jordan, offered to give up part of his salary to keep teammate Armstrong because the team was cutting him.

Phil Jackson was the difference.
But it was a different time & place.

He was not too different than Kobe but over all probably(for his time)a better player. Kobe idolizes MJ
in determination, will and skills.

Players now, ARE different because society, media, money, supplements, etc. make them so.

Posted by: Bill | October 30, 2007 3:31 PM

Prazak, I think you're probably explaining what I mean better than I am but I think you're right. Wade DEFINITELY gets more calls than Gil. Perhaps it's because he travels every other time he gets it and they never call it. Kal, I am definitely stating that Gil doesn't get the calls when other guys would. It probably has a lot to do with him initiating the contact but breathing on Wade or LeBron gets you a foul while you pretty much have to knock Gil off balance. Put it this way: LJ, Wade, and Kobe get calls that are sometimes dubious. Gil has definitely gotten fouled when he gets the calls.

Posted by: mark | October 30, 2007 3:38 PM

Gil for Kobe.I'd do it in a second,because Kobe's the best player in the game.But what about the intagibles like Gilberts scores for schools program,Gilbert rollin through Barry Farms without a posse,his charisma & 1000 watt smile,& all the other things that make Gilbert more than just another superstar.Would we really want to trade that for a player that's high on talent & low on personality.On second thought i think i am going to VETO that trade.

03:45 PM

Posted by: dcpirate1 | October 30, 2007 3:41 PM

Arenas got the benefit of the doubt on a number of iffy calls last season. (Remember that full court heave from under the opposite end basket where he got a continuation call and three FTs?) Did he get as many as the other guys? Don't know, I wasn't keeping a log. Trying to parse who got more in which setting is splitting hairs. The fact remains, Gilbert gets the benefit of the doubt on close calls more than a little bit, certainly enough that it creates an advantage for the Wiz in many situations.

Posted by: kalorama | October 30, 2007 3:45 PM

Are we kidding in rejecting this trade possibility? Kobe for Arenas is highway robbery. Arenas is leaving after this year, anyone who doesn't admit this is naive. Kobe has 2 years left, and potentially 5 if he doesn't opt out of his deal. And Kobe is just plain better. I have to think Ivan Carter is joking around when he says Andray Blatche is a "deal-breaker" on Kobe. That is easily the most insane thing I've ever read from a serious newspaper columnist. Andray Blatche is a 5ppg player. Calling him a deal-breaker in a Kobe trade is so laughable I shouldn't even be bothering to comment.

It's simple: A Kobe-Caron-Antawn Big 3 is even bigger than Garnett-Allen-Pierce. We win the championship with Kobe. We'll be lucky to get out of the first round again with Arenas.

Posted by: MikeBHay | October 30, 2007 3:46 PM

Bill,

haven't read the book entirely, but have read excerpts and interviews. i know he wasn't the best teammate ever. and i meant to imply that he wanted to be the best out there, but eventually, to him being the best meant winning the most championships. that probably was in large part due to phil jackson.

kobe has been around phil for quite some time. has won championships with him. he has seen what it takes to win. but he still tends to ignore lessons.

in my opinion, that's because being "the man" is more important to him than winning it all. in jordan's case, i think it eventually became the opposite. winning it all was more important to him (though maybe only slightly).

today is a different day (that's why i mentioned that jordan didn't have to deal with cap/luxury tax issues, i mean making 30 mil a year musta been nice for him). but it doesn't change the fact that all things being equal, you take the player that cares more about winning than being the man.

Posted by: JC | October 30, 2007 3:49 PM

I also agree with Gregors that Ivan jumped to conclusions when he said Grunsfeld shot down the trade just by saying he hadn't talked to the Lakers. The rumor was that the trade could happen. I still could, and I sure hope it does. I cannot fathom how people on this board don't want the best player in the NBA on our team. Not only will we win the championship with Kobe, but we will sell out every single game of the season. Get it done!

Posted by: MikeBHay | October 30, 2007 3:52 PM

"It's simple: A Kobe-Caron-Antawn Big 3 is even bigger than Garnett-Allen-Pierce. We win the championship with Kobe. We'll be lucky to get out of the first round again with Arenas."

It's not that simple. It's not a Kobe or Arenas straight up swap. At the very least, either Butler or Blatche would have to be included. The plus-minus on talent lost and gained isn't as clear cut then, esp. when you consider that it's hardly a given that Kobe will re-sign when his contract is up.

And even if it was a straight-swap, the Wiz still wouldn't be title worthy. Title teams play defense and rebound, two things the Wiz have been dreadful at for years. Kobe's arrival will not singlehandedly alter that.

Posted by: kalorama | October 30, 2007 3:53 PM

Are we kidding in rejecting this trade possibility? Kobe for Arenas is highway robbery. Arenas is leaving after this year, anyone who doesn't admit this is naive. Kobe has 2 years left, and potentially 5 if he doesn't opt out of his deal. And Kobe is just plain better. I have to think Ivan Carter is joking around when he says Andray Blatche is a "deal-breaker" on Kobe. That is easily the most insane thing I've ever read from a serious newspaper columnist. Andray Blatche is a 5ppg player. Calling him a deal-breaker in a Kobe trade is so laughable I shouldn't even be bothering to comment.

It's simple: A Kobe-Caron-Antawn Big 3 is even bigger than Garnett-Allen-Pierce. We win the championship with Kobe. We'll be lucky to get out of the first round again with Arenas.

Posted by: MikeBHay | October 30, 2007 03:46 PM

You are simply put out of your damn mind. You know nothing about hoops if you think giving up Gil and Dre we wil win a title.Dre has more potential than the trade is worth. I have nothing more to comment on this your whole post is LAUGHABLE!!!!! You must be a laker fan

Posted by: the truth | October 30, 2007 3:56 PM

This mikebhay obviously knows nothing about Kobe.

Posted by: the truth | October 30, 2007 3:58 PM

I love the 'Pecherov wasn't expected to be part of the rotation'. Great work front office. He'll be ready to play when Gilbert is in LA and Jamison is out west somewhere.

Posted by: Bernard King | October 30, 2007 4:24 PM

It's so fun to talk about trades that will never happen. Some reasons I don't think this one will:

1. Abe won't trade Gilbert, especially for an accused rapist who has been a me-first drama queen his whole career. Abe didn't like the MJ Experience, and he probably sees too many similarities in Kobe.

2. Abe always says that he wants to win another championship, but I think if given the choice to have a championship team with players that embarrass him or a non-championship team with players he is proud of and loves, he would choose the latter option.

3. I don't get the sense that the Wizards organization thinks there is any real risk that Gilbert won't resign with them next summer. There certainly would be risk that Kobe would opt out in 2 years.

4. If the Wizards trade Gilbert for Kobe, it will toss the entire organization for a loop. The players will think, "They traded Gilbert??!!," and you will read the dreaded, "It's a business" quote about 500 times after the trade. It will take the wind out of organization and team for some time, in my opinion. You can't go from the fun-loving Merry Pranksters of Gil to Kobe's Whipping Boys in the bat of an eye. There will be a serious adjustment period, at best.

5. Grunfeld signed Gilbert. He has been quick to get rid of guys he didn't sign, but has been loyal to his guys. (I could be wrong, but I don't think he has traded or cut any of the key guys he has signed or drafted.)

Posted by: Henry | October 30, 2007 4:26 PM

the truth: way to resort to personal attacks like "you know nothing." You are just so mature. Not trading for Kobe because of Blatche is flat-out ridiculous and nobody outside of this blog would even consider such an insane thought. Kobe is the best player in the NBA, so your saying Dre has more potential than this trade means you think Dre will be the best player in the NBA. Obviously, that's a complete joke.

Posted by: MikeBHay | October 30, 2007 4:36 PM

kalorama: Obviously if Butler has to be included, that's a different story. Butler is a top 20 player. But if it's Arenas and Blatche for Kobe, it's the steal of the century. Blatche has proven nothing at the NBA level, who knows maybe he'll be really good, but that pie-in-the-sky possibility is an insane reason to not get the best player in the NBA. As for the fact that Kobe could leave after 2 years, well yeah sure, but Arenas is leaving after this year, so Kobe is automatically here twice as long anyways.

Posted by: MikeBHay | October 30, 2007 4:38 PM

Another thing to consider in the whole Kobe for Arenas trade rumor:

I seriously doubt that LA would do the trade for Arenas unless they could make sure he was signed past this year. After all, if Gil didn't re-sign with LA, they would have given up Kobe Bryant for essentially nothing. (Gil could sign with whatever team he wants - even the Wizards!)

I think that a Sign-and-trade deal is out of the question, since you cannot trade recently signed players until after December 15th.

So, therefore, Arenas would have to agree to a contract with LA, giving up his Bird rights to a 6-year deal. LA can only offer a 5-year deal. Everyone that has read Gil's blog knows the whole reason he's opting out of his contract is to:
1. Start earning $15 Mil per year NEXT YEAR rather than waiting another year...AND
2. Get the 6-year deal.

By the way, for those of you thinking that he can get paid $15M THIS year - NO. The CBA will only allow extensions to existing contracts. You cannot tear up an existing contract and re-write it for more or less money. So, Gil is stuck playing for $12M this year, no mater who he plays for.

Posted by: Rook | October 30, 2007 4:40 PM

Henry, to your points:
1) if you actually followed the Kobe proceedings you'd know that the rape charge was a complete lie, so that has no impact on any trade possibility.
2) Arenas constantly complains (about the coach, about the refs, about everything, he has the biggest chip in the world on his shoulder), so he kind of embarasses the team himself (you just don't hear this in DC).
3) If the Wizards' brass isn't concerned about Gilbert leaving, they are blind. He already said he's opting out, before even negotiating with the Wizards. And he dooesn't like Eddie Jordan, and was steamed about him all summer (as reported by Ivan at the start of training camp). He's leaving.
4) The only players that are relevant on this team are the Big 3. Caron has already played well with Kobe, so he's fine. And Jamison has played with stars his whole career, so he's fine. "Throwing the team into a loop", gimme a break. What, is Roger Mason going to be razzled? Get real.
5) This is probably your best point. Grunfeld must have let someone go that he signed, but I can't think of anyone either. It would be a huge mistake, but Grunfeld may not make the trade due to dumb loyalty.

Posted by: MikeBHay | October 30, 2007 4:47 PM

Rook: Arenas is from LA, grew up idolizing the Lakers, I'm pretty sure they'd work out a deal. I think this is the least of the concerns.

Posted by: MikeBHay | October 30, 2007 4:49 PM

"Arenas is from LA, grew up idolizing the Lakers, I'm pretty sure they'd work out a deal. I think this is the least of the concerns."

Not that simple by a long shot. The whole idea of some kind of "home town discount" when it comes to signing players in pro sports is pretty much a myth.

Chris Webber is from Detroit and throughout his career spoke wistfully about playing there. Yet, at least twice during the prime of his career he had a chance to sign with Detroit as a FA and passed in order to get more money and a better shot at a title in Sacramento. he only landed in Detroit in the twilight of his career, old and broken down and still nursing delusions of glory. Didn't work out too well, did it? Lebron is from Cleveland. Anyone who thinks he'll hesitate, even for an instant, to opt out of his deal with the Cavs in the wake of their ongoing failure to build a winning team around him, raise your hand.

There are two things players, care about: money and winning (not necessarily in that order). A player in Gilbert's position isn't going to worry too much about money, because he's going to get paid wherever he goes. The winning, however, is a different story. With Kobe the Lakers were, at best, a bottom rung playoff team. There's no logical reason to believe they'll be any better with Arenas in Kobe's place. And if the re-sign Arenas to a max deal, they'll be in the same spot financially they were in with Kobe: capped out and lacking assets to upgrade the rest of the talent. Add to that the likelihood of Jackson's impending departure as coach and the Lakers' future doesn't look too rosy.

I don't see home town sentimentality being enough of an incentive for Gilbert to anchor himself to that sinking ship.

Posted by: kalorama | October 30, 2007 5:04 PM

Interesting how the NBA works, a foul isn't always a foul, depends on who commits it, who it was commited on, and who's standing on the sideline?

Rookie coaches with rookie players or a roster of unknowns need not apply to get calls. It takes a coach awhile to gain enough stature in the league to get his team calls. Remember Gar Heard, or Hamilton's tortured looks standing on the sidelines.

Players need to establish themselves in the league's pecking order to get the ref's to give them a call. It often has amazed me how quickly King James with his millions in endorsement deals climbed to the top of that heap. Guess money talks.

I didn't establish this system, in fact for years as a Bullets/Wizards fan I've seen the butt end of this system at work. It's one of the things that I like the least about the NBA.

And one reason that many times I find myself enjoying college games more even though the talent of the players is not nearly so good. Except when you're a Maryland fan and your team goes into Tobacco Road. Same system for different reasons.

It's interesting to me that Kobe and Gilbert got almost the same number of calls last year. In the triple post offense Kobe has the ball in his hands maybe more then anyone in the league.

So last year our young point guard that's been rocketing up the NBA ladder, and our head coach finally gained enough respect that some of the star calls went our way for a change.

I've also seen players wear out their welcome with the league, a guy like Allen Iverson who used to be able to throw his arms in the air give a pained look and get a call, can't seem to buy one on a new team.

Will Kobe be able to switch teams and still get star treatment? Will Arenas? Though if he leaves here I don't much care, that's somebody else's problem.

I'm really not going to jump quickly onto the bandwagon to make a Kobe trade, particularly if it's going to cost us a crop of young players besides Arenas.

We're not desperate to trade, LA is getting more and more desperate every day. So's Kobe. For us to even consider a Kobe deal I'd say it would have to be on our terms not theirs. Otherwise play with what we've got.

Grunfeld seemed to signal this summer he was willing to give up Daniels, Thomas and possibly Haywood. I know to get Kobe we'd have to include Arenas as a center peice.

But to send along Young and Blatche, who can't even be traded until Dec 15th anyway, we'd be giving up two of the most valuable assets a team can have when trying to fit a superstar's salary on a team. Guys playing under rookie or inexpensive deals.

We don't need to consider a trade that will fix all of LA's problems. I'm not sure we need to consider a trade that's even fair. I don't think LA's going to be able to rob the Bulls to get Kobe out of there.

If that falls through, Kobe's people will start to look for a new destination. I trust if they come around Grunfeld will drive a smart hard bargain. If he can't do a Kobe trade on his terms he's smart to say we're not even talking.

I might be old school, but I still beleive in "dancing with who brung you". Like Reispace I tend to admire organizations that don't chase every trade opportunity.
The "Grass isn't always Greener on the other side of the fence" and sombody else's players aren't always better.

The school of thought that says Arenas isn't a star player because he's only advanced past the first round of the playoffs once, could also be applied to Kobe in reverse. What has he done since Shaq left?

One additional note with Kobe, he's never played in anything but the trple post his entire career. Will a team that acquires him have to revamp their offensive system to his wishes? Our will he have to try to adapt to another system?

Posted by: GM | October 30, 2007 5:16 PM

MikeBHay - I think you missed my point. IF Arenas agreed to a contract extension with the Lakers in order to allow the trade to happen, he would be leaving about $25 Million dollars behind. (5-year contract versus 6-year contract).

Also, because Gilbert Arenas would have to AGREE to a new contract with Los Angeles, it essentially gives him the equivalent of a veto on the trade; unless LA wishes to risk trading Kobe and his remaining 2-year contract for the privilage of watching Gilbert play for them for one year, and then walk.

I just can't believe that LA would be stupid enough to trade for Arenas unless he agrees to an extension. THAT gives Arenas veto power over the trade.

If Arenas agreed to a contract extension, he would be agreeing to:
1. Go to a West Coast team where it's more difficult to make the playoffs, AND advance.
2. Go to a team with less talent than the one he left.
3. Go to a team that Kobe Bryant, the best player in the world, could not get past the first round.
4. Play for LESS MONEY!!

Posted by: Rook | October 30, 2007 5:40 PM

Agreed JC. Jordan is a special individual. Changed the face and business of NBA baskeball all together. Those playing now - owe him much gratitude. His ability and demand made everybody behind him - their talent became of value. Pretty amazing.
Consider Bill Russell, Oscar, Magic, Chamberlain, and many, many others who did not do for this sport what MJ, his agent David Falk and Phil Jackson did for professional basketball. As things go now financially etc. might not be so good but it changed the NBA drastically forever.
They were the catalyst.

Now, its "The brawl" changing things, clothes, shoes

Posted by: Bill | October 30, 2007 5:49 PM

mikebhay, If you think by trading Gil Dre and another player(which we would have to do to even it out) would give us the NBA title your a fool. Personal attack or not it's the truth. Kobe is not a winner. If he was he would have won one by now without Shaq. Blatche could I didn't say will could develope into a allstar. And your willing to throw that away for a selfish loser. exactly like I said before you MUST be a Lakers fan.

Posted by: the truth | October 30, 2007 6:12 PM

Kobe can't flourish in a princeton offense. We would have to change our O and Kobe only knows the triangle. On a side note does anyone remember Gil saying he would leave if we didn't resign EJ. Right before we resigned EJ.

Posted by: the truth | October 30, 2007 6:16 PM

whats the chances this mikebhay is dcman88?

Posted by: Anonymous | October 30, 2007 6:18 PM

Rook: I did musunderstand what you meant a bit. However, I don't see why he's leaving behind $25M, he wouldn't make that much in one year. And the 5-yr vs. 6-yr thing, is that because it's an extension?

truth: you said Blatche has more potential than the offer, meaning Blatche has more potential than Kobe. Which is obviously CAT-scan material. As far as Arenas saying he'd leave if Eddie Jordan weren't re-signed, you're about a year late in time my friend. People change. Arenas clearly changed as he hates EJ now.

And truth, if I must be a Laker fan cuz I like Kobe, then I guess you must be a Celtic fan given that your name is Pierce's nickname. And I guess you're a fan of every team on which you like a player. Nice logic. Oh, and kee the name calling coming, it says a lot about you.

Posted by: MikeBHay | October 30, 2007 6:34 PM

"In fact, as a fan, I want my team to be better."

Kobe = Scotty Pippen

You can't convince me that Kobe is better for this team then Gilbert Arenas and his attitude is LIGHT YEARS better.

What the hell has Kobe won with out Shaq? Nothing, it's a fact people like it or not. Get over it.

In another fact, all he's done is whine about being in LA so much that he wants traded? His own coach has said: "Obviously he hasn't thrown his heart and soul into performing on the floor."

Gilbert HAS taken this team on his back and given the DC area what they have not had in over 20 years....hope.

Ok, so Kobe is now a Wizard. How long do you think it will be before he does the same BS here as he did out in LA? Seriously. Who else did the Wiz trade in this deal? Blatche? Are you kidding me?

Sounds like he would be a perfect fit on the Redskins however. Him and Dan Snyder would probably get along wonderfully. Snyder would make money selling Bryant jerseys while the Skins would still lose games. Then Gibbs would tell us how us all how he would be able to "out jump everyone in the back of the endzone," except they can't even get into the red zone. A perfect match!

Kobe can stay out in LA for all I care. I have someone I can proudly root for in a Wizards uniform in Gilbert Arenas. I look foward to watching Wizards games because of Agent Zero.

It ain't all about the numbers, and even then Gil's look better through his first 6 seasons then Kobe's and Gilbert hasn't even played with a decent big man.

I believe Kobe had Shaq IN HIS PRIME but how we all forget. :P

Show Gil some respect guys, geeze. He deserves it.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | October 30, 2007 6:41 PM

"I might be old school, but I still beleive in "dancing with who brung you".

Same GM. :)

"...he would choose the latter option."

Abe is crazy loyal and I agree with Henry on this.

"I love the 'Pecherov wasn't expected to be part of the rotation'. Great work front office."

I haven't read that BK, but if it's true then it's a mistake from what I saw in preseason. That guy is a natural center and can definately help.

"Aside form the obvious problem of you attacking anyone who disagrees with your position on the trade issue, the bigger problem with this little rant is that it's a wild overreaction , given that the people who actually want the trade to happen are pretty significantly outnumbered by the people who don't want it."

It's a "fantasy" trade, it's stupid. Go root for the Lakers if you like Kobe that much. No one is stopping you.

And Keith, sorry I wasn't attacking you. Just not "everyone" would make that trade.

Sorry(as in sorry). :)

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | October 30, 2007 6:51 PM

Show EG some respect too. He's not winging it like Ainge - he's methodically building a team that will entertain and win for years, and hopefully win a championship to boot.

Posted by: reispace | October 30, 2007 6:52 PM

I didn't read all the comments, but I just wanted to say "JUST SAY NO!" to Kobe for Gil!! Gilbert is the only reason I started paying attention to the Wiz again (after many years of just ignoring the NBA), and is someone I can proudly cheer for; why anyone would rather have Kobe than Gilbert is beyond me. If Gil opts out and leaves, oh well, I'll still like him and the Wiz. If the Wiz trade him for Kobe, they've lost me as a fan AGAIN. Really looking forward to this season, I think we're going to surprise a lot of people!

Posted by: JIM | October 30, 2007 7:04 PM

mike if you like name calling and based on your responses and post cool good jod retard

Posted by: the truth | October 30, 2007 7:37 PM

p.s the truth is the name because the truth is what i speak, like it or not

Posted by: the truth | October 30, 2007 7:38 PM

like a post earlier mikebhay is dcman88

Posted by: the truth | October 30, 2007 7:39 PM

For everyone screaming "no" to this trade, even going so far as to compare Gilbert's first few years to Kobe's; Kobe is the most talented basketball player in the league, and arguably the most talented player in the history of the game. He is fiercely competitive and absolutely HATES losing. None of that sounds bad to me. I like Gilbert a lot, but he will never come close to being the all around player Kobe is. And to suggest that people who like Kobe should haul off and start rooting for the Wizards shows a complete misunderstanding of what it is to be a fan. Real fans pick their team once, and then pray that when given the chance to trade for one of the top 5 greatest players of all time without having to mortgage the future, the front office pulls the trigger.

Posted by: JE | October 30, 2007 7:45 PM

Great post JE. I agree, the crap from Ray and the truth about "Go root for the Lakers" is insulting and absurd and shows that they a) are arrogant, b) refuse to consider anyone else's opinion, and c) aren't real sports fans, just mouthpieces. Only a petulant child would think that wanting a player from another team means you should give up on your own team. Just ridiculous.

Posted by: MikeBHay | October 30, 2007 7:56 PM

Ray,

No need to apologize, man. I just had to speak up. I love Gil, and would love to see him sign another 6-year contract after the season (although I'm concerned about whether he will or not; hard to know what he'll do, because he's so strange, I can't figure out his priorities. What will keep him here?)

But I want to see him become a true franchise player by putting in some effort on D. I don't expect him to become Shawn Marion, but I want some improvement. Even a little bit.

Please, Gil. I'm begging, yo....

Posted by: Keithinator | October 30, 2007 9:35 PM

you guys don't know what it takes to make a team. I am open to opinons but giving up our future for a guy who isn't winner is stupid. mikebs is the one who came on here calling everyone ridicouls for not wanting to give up 1 allstar and another possible future allstar. All I'm saying is Kobe isn't that much of an upgrade to make this team a championship contender. If you guys understood basketball an offensive schemes you would see that. But you guys are intramural players and don't understand a real TEAM offense. Kobe is not a teammate. If Kobe hates losing so much why didn't he go to battle for Shaq when they got rid of him? The Lakers were dominating the league back then.
And he is in no way comparable to MJ. MJ made players better than they were BJ Armstrong, John Paxson,Craig Hodges,Luc Longley,Bill Cartwright,Scottie Pippen,Horace Grant, the list goes on. Did you hear about those guys after Mike left? No. Because Mike was a true Player. Hell he took a pay cut so they could sign more guys to help the team. Now if you guys knew sh*t you'd see thats what Gil is doing this year by opting out and resigning it gives us more room to play under the cap. But no you guys are to narrow minded to see that. Learn the game before you run your mouth!

Posted by: the truth | October 30, 2007 9:48 PM

This biggest problem I have with your assertions Mike BHay is the idea that Kobe might not opt out. That thought is naive and ludicrous. Kobe won't leave the $$ on the table just like Gilbert won't and if the Wizards go nowhere, then Kobe is out of here.
As for you assertion that the trade won't cause upheaval. Any trade involving Blatche or Young (two of the prospective pieces of this trade) can't happen until Dec. 15. Are you going to take the position a trade of this magnitude in the middle of the season won't completely change the chemistry of the team and throw into at least a little chaos? I hope not, because that too is ludicrous.
And finally, the point I have made over and over again. Is the difference between two years of Kobe (all the Wizards are guaranteed) and one year of Gilbert worth either Butler, or Songaila, Young and a No. 1 pick or Blatche and Young or whatever other concoction that could work. No no no!
Hopefully the Bulls will either hurry up and do it or squash so we can get on with focusing on the court instead of all this off court crapola.

Posted by: George Templeton | October 30, 2007 9:54 PM

George, A-MEN

Posted by: the truth | October 30, 2007 9:59 PM

JE thats a good one, Kobe one of the 5 greatest of alltime. Thanks laughed for hours.

Posted by: the truth | October 30, 2007 10:03 PM

Kobe's skills on the basketball court are absolutely comparable to Jordan's. One can make the argument he's a worse teammate (though Jordan's teammates whom he knocked out at practice might disagree), but that doesn't change the fact that his skill set is one that can only be surpassed by a handful of players in the history of the game. When surrounded with talent, Kobe won championships. Keep in mind that Jordan had another all time great (Pippen) with him for his championship runs.

Additionally, Kobe's skills are such that he could step into a huge variety of offensive schemes and replicate Gilbert's production, on top of playing first team all-nba defense, something even Gilbert lovers like myself can agree would never come from Agent Zero. There is a reason Gilbert has on numerous occasions stated that Kobe is the best in the game.

One last point: when questioning Kobe's support for Shaq, Shaq has since exonerated Kobe of any involvement in having him shipped out. People who deny Kobe's desire to win are letting off court perceptions and attitudes blind their appreciation for his truly once or twice in a lifetime skills. Don't cry for defense and then blast the notion that Kobe would be an upgrade over Gilbert. And again this is coming from someone who loves Gilbert, but loves winning more.

Posted by: JE | October 31, 2007 2:05 AM

"Ernie Grunfeld shot down any possibility of a Kobe/Gilbert swap when I talked to him earlier this evening.
"I don't normally comment on rumors but there is no truth to this rumor," Grunfeld said. "We've never had any conversations with the Lakers or with anyone else about Gilbert.""

EG is a smart man not to comment on this until it's a done deal. Because Gilby is a primma donna diva, he's going to throw a hissy fit if EG said otherwise. Why would EG reveal it even if it was for real?

If EG reveals it, and it does not go through, Gilby will opt out and not come back. That's why it's in EG's best interests not really to comment until it's a done deal, or throw out misinformation.

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 31, 2007 9:10 AM

"Kobe = Scotty Pippen

You can't convince me that Kobe is better for this team then Gilbert Arenas and his attitude is LIGHT YEARS better.

What the hell has Kobe won with out Shaq? Nothing, it's a fact people like it or not. Get over it.

Gilbert HAS taken this team on his back and given the DC area what they have not had in over 20 years....hope.

- Ray

Posted by: Ray | October 30, 2007 06:41 PM""

This is one of the biggest jokes I read today. How many times has Scottie Pippen scored 80 pts, or Scottie scored consecutive 40+ points? Kobe is a dude out of HS, not college like Scottie.

Gilby is not even on the same plane as Kobe. Kobe has accomplished so much, what has Gilby accomplished? Jokers like to say Kobe didn't do anything without Shaq...when did Shaq ever carry a team? Anybody ever heard of DWade? Last I checked, basketball was a team game, not a one man show.

What the heck has Gilby done withOUT Larry, or done withOUT Caron, or done withOUT AJ? When did he carry the team last year? During all star weekend? Gilby couldn't win a game without at least 1 of the other big three being healthy.

The only hope this team had last season was hope to not be eliminated from the playoffs. Somebody anonymous chided me about getting the number of games in a season wrong (84 vice the correct 82). If the season had indeed 84 games, Les BouleS would have been eliminated last season, and this coming from a team that led the EAST!!!!!!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Posted by: DC Man88 | October 31, 2007 9:19 AM

It sickens me to do this, but DCMan is right here. Gilbert is NOT Kobe. We're not even in the same ballpark. There is realistically not one thing Gilbert can do that Kobe cannot. He's more likable sure, but how many Redskins teams do you guys remember for their likability? None; you remember the teams from 82, 87 and 91. Thats what I want from the Wizards. If they can be likable in the process, wonderful, but thats not what the game is about. It's just hard for me to take seriously anyone who would suggest that Arenas is a better basketball player than Kobe in any respect. Liking Gilbert doesn't make you a homer, but making that assertion sure might.

Posted by: JE | October 31, 2007 11:14 AM

DCMan is correct. Gil Arenas is "0" without
Butler, jamison - SOMEBODY. He can't carry a team. Truth - Wiz didn't really get better until C Butler stepped on the floor. They had no "toughness" to them - no cohesiveness until Butler. He connected with Jamison not Arenas. Arenas pulled off to do "his thing" not the "team thing"


DWade took Miami via "free throws" to a championship. You'd have to be blind "not" to see that. Shaq was persona non grata.

Truthfully, Jordan had - thanks to Phil Jackson - A team effort out of every players.

Lakers had a "Team effort out of every player on those teams that won those championships"

And open your eyes...as good as Tim Duncan is - or Steve Nash..they both know they need the "entire team" to win anything."

And trust me - Nash is phenominal!!
BUT he can't win anything alone.

Gilbert has - self propelled, published and purchased himself into the spot light looking for "The Spot Lite" - notariety - popularity. Even asked Wise to "write the articile of his life" oh & run it again.

don't want to hear it again. Go play ball.

But whats happening with his team? That says a lot right there..he needs to check his "Team Radar."

Butler - Jamison - Daniels each is more team minded than Arenas.

If the Wizards start winning as a "team" and continue to do so thru the playoffs - get out of the 1st round...then I'll consider thinking a bit differently about Arenas. Until I see results...all this is personal conjecture and wishful thinking.

Posted by: Bill | October 31, 2007 11:46 AM

Kobe's skills on the basketball court are absolutely comparable to Jordan's. One can make the argument he's a worse teammate (though Jordan's teammates whom he knocked out at practice might disagree), but that doesn't change the fact that his skill set is one that can only be surpassed by a handful of players in the history of the game. When surrounded with talent, Kobe won championships. Keep in mind that Jordan had another all time great (Pippen) with him for his championship runs.

POSTED BY JE
Yes Kobe is possibly the best right now but Shaq made that team not Kobe. And to say Kobe is one of the top 5 all time is a joke.
Jordan made Scottie Pippen! How many allstar games did pippen play after mike? How many allstar games did Shaq play after Kobe. The reason LA and Miami won those Titles was Shaq. Yes Kobe and Wade were big in those games but it was Shaq that was the reason they won.you could've take Kobe and Wade off those teams and replaced them with other good guards and they still win but take Shaq away and they don't win those titles. It takes more than on court determination to make a true winner. Mike showed that like no player ever has to even compare those two is stupid there is no comparision. Mike is 10 levels above Kobe. Kobe might be top 20 alltime maybe. Just because he patterned his game and looks like mike on the floor doesn't mean he is that good. Kobe is a great player but not on the level with the Jordans, Magic, Bird Chamberlin,Russell,West,Havlicek,Jabbar,Hell or even DR J.

Posted by: the truth | October 31, 2007 12:05 PM

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