Hm, for once Venezuela has a leader who fights for ordinary citizens against the lust for power and money of the few. Sure, the fight is clumsy at times, and brash. But effective for the ordinary people. I wish the US had the same qualities in its leaders in the White house and Congress.

The article's semantics "debate is growing" means simply that business' institutional media facilitators are writing columns to fabricate the appearance of a public issue where there really is none.

I'd like to see a discussion over the Post editorialists' shameful cheerleading for the coup leaders who tried to oust the democratically elected leader of Venezuela, and how they ever expect their readership to ever believe what they have to say on this subject again. I hear debate is growing!

As one professional journalist to another, I'd like to extend a round of applause to the Washington Post for its fearless coverage of the nightmare going on in Venezuela, a topic that is too often subverted by a noisy claque of far-left apologists for Chavistadom still longing for the Good Old Communist Dream of the 1960s. I love the way the Washington Post opens its eyes, looks around, reports what it sees and keeps us all informed. Best Newspaper in America.

It's about time that the oligarchy of South America gets matched with an equally rich government. The bankers and other so called "democrats" plundered Venezuela's assets for decades, e.g. Banco Latino had 10 billion vanish overnight twice in less than 2 years ('92 and '94), not to say Banco de Venezuela, Banco BND, Banco Consolidado etc.

The law has not been complied with at all. In fact, Chávez said yesterday that "if there is no "collaboration" we will apply the law and we will take everything away from them". That says it all, no? Meanwhile poverty is up 10% in the last seven years, GDP is still negative in the same period and corruption is rampant. Just a few days ago, a pro-Chavez TV announcer was removed from his program for sayong: "People are tired of those that wear a red beret in order to steal". Where is the oil windfall of the last few years? Chavez fights for Chavez nothing else, the rest is propaganda.

I have always admired the way that the Washington Post has covered the Venezuela issue, showing the facts with a clarity that most other newspapers lack. As a new Venezuelan blogger fighting against those extremely opinionated 'clueless lefties' who fight for issues they don't even come close to understanding (or even care about), I want to join Mora y León in his accolades.

Keep up the good work!!

I am happy I am not in Venezuela.
There is a Latin American saying,
"Bonita de lejos, pero lejos de bonita."
"Beautiful from far, but far from beautiful."

To most social concious people that is the reality of the "Venezuelan" revolution.

The price of oil is up big time ($60 higher than in 98) but the poverty level is perhaps higher that it has ever been. Roads are falling apart, nature is being destroyed, slums in steep mountains anytime grow rapidly. No infrastructes investment, houses for the poor, road maintances, transportation. There is money for some food for the most needy, but has that not always been the case in Venezuela in the past 50 years when the price of the oil has been high?

Propaganda is extreme, hateful and polirized. There are 'good ideas' but that most often has not been the problem for politicians, particularly in Latin American.

Venezuelan problems are unlike those of the rest of Latin American. How to use the oil to create sustainability, and distribute the wealth? How to reduce the corruption of the government?

Ok so tell me Edgar Brown and Mora y Leon, how great was the Venezualan economy and its poor for all those decades before Chavez came into power. If as you say the economy is soo bad how come the ordinary person still supports. Shame on you - apologists for the oligarchs. Who pays you to be a fake blogger and an "objective" journalist.

First i would like to point the fact of president "chavez" providing weapons and money to guerillas, and militias he has been feeding since he was elected as president of Venezuela, throughout the years we have seen a very incapable person leading a very rich and productive country.
since president "chavez" was elected has destroyed the Venezuela's economy were thousands of companies have left more and more unenployed on the st thousands of hungry family who could probably have one meal a day, if it was not a big problem for our citezens president "chavez" spends our money, traveling, providing guerrillas with weapong and giving oil to cuba for free... if in this colum we are all normal persons we would easily understand than venezuelan president "chavez" is distroying the country everyday while some supporter can think "chavez" will save the world..... NI UN PASO ATRAS!!!!

The correct translation is: Beautiful from afar but far from beautiful.

Sadly what killed the goose that laid the golden egg that Venezuela is, was FACILISMO. All of you familiar with the history of Venezuela know that since oil was first discovered in 1904 nobody in charge of managing the wealth of the country ever did a damn thing to invest in the country, except when it came time to line his or her own pockets. I am old enough to remember Romulo Betancourt telling the country to sow petrodollars. The wealth of the country made everything too FACIL. I have always had this image of Venezuela as a very fat sow with a multitude of hungry piglets waiting their turn to latch onto a tit. Cronyism and corruption have always been rampant regardless of who has been in power. I see Chavez as the ultimate expression of a people totally fed up with a system that has always been stacked against them. The Wall Street Journal once wrote an article that basically said that if Venezuela had a RICO law similar to the US, every individual who has ever worked for the government in Venezuela would have to be indicted for corruption and graft. Instead they got Chavez. Suck it up now.

It's a really, really old story. the ruling elite plunder natural resources and are rife with corruption, so some populist rides in on a white horse and says he's gonna clean house. the elites deserve it. but then this charasmatic populist, he starts spending money on himself, his political ambitions, his buddies, and military goods. by the time people realize he's raping the economy and life is worse than ever, there's nothing they can do to get rid of him, as he has by then resorted to strongarm tactics. eventually he is displaced in some sort of coup, backed by populism, and the new charasmatic leader says he's going to clean house and get rid of all the corruption... and so it goes. in the end, the people are the losers every time. populism is not a healthy way to run a government.

Dear Friend,

We have to be ready to stop another war. How many times have you heard this statement in the past 3 years? It has never been more real in the case of Venezuela.

Though the oil factor and imperial overstretch have thus far blocked a concerted military effort to eliminate the Hugo Chávez administration in Venezuela, the 2002 coup, millions of US taxpayers' dollars that fund anti-Chávez groups, and growing Bush administration hostility all suggest that the Bush people aren't too afraid to use naked power against Venezuela.

So far most of the U.S. media has toed the anti-Chávez line. Politicians across political boundaries have either remained silent or have echoed Bush's distortions and threats.

The U.S. alternative and left media have fought to present a true picture of Venezuela, but precious little organization has emerged.

So, Political Affairs announces the formation of an informational and hopefully organizational coalition (non-sectarian) to bring together those of us who support Venezuelan sovereignty and independence and who oppose another illegal war.

We have established U.S. Friends of Venezuela on our webpage at: http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/1849

Here you can find out how to endorse the mission of organizing and mobilizing opposition to intervention. You can also find articles we have published in the past couple of years.

Partial list of endorsers: http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/1888

If you do want to endorse this mission, please write to pa-webmaster@politicalaffairs.net. Send your name, location, your occupation and affiliations (state whether for identification purposes only), organization endorsements, website links, small graphics, or whatever you want to identify you or your organization. Endorsers and links will be posted.

Please forward this message to your lists, friends, families, enemies, etc.

We can share articles, information, action items, and announcements. Let's educate our communities, the media, and politicians on the truth about Venezuela and stop another war before it starts.

Best Regards,

Joel Wendland
Managing Editor
Political Affairs
http://www.politicalaffairs.net

The People are the looser all the time. Not necessarily. The French people showed us that it is not always so. In Venezuela's case at the very least you can say that Chavez turned the cake upside down. A great number of the people who have ferociously latched to the fat Venezuelan tit are all common folks this time around. The lesson that I believe we need to learn from the experiment taking place in Venezuela is that a Capitalist society does NOT have the privilege to ignore the lesser ones in the society. We do that at our own peril. Hurricane Katrina amply demonstrated that point in the US. You cannot sit by and eat cake when thousands die. The people will always remember and make us pay for it.

Some observations:
a) Chavez did not get 70% in the referendum, even by his own numbers. His electoral council gave him 59%.
b) What is more important is that they admit that the oposition got 40%, and this is taking into account the incredible campaign of represion and intimidation against the 5 million people that had previously supported the recall refendum drive. In addition, the voting system was set such that the government was able to monitor who voted for which option, which forced many people to vote for Chavez in fear of reprisals.
c) They DID cheat and inflated their winning numbers.

Mr. Morely states that the general public in Venezeula seems to side with Chavez, as evidenced in the Aug. 15 referendum, and compares the opposition's charges of voter fraud to complaints about votes in Ohio for the US 2004 presidential elections.

If Mr. Morely would have been in Venezuela at the time of the referendum vote, as an American I'm sure he would have been shocked at the level of threats and intimidation the Chavez government was using at the time. It was clear to most voters in Venezuela that their would be consequences for voting against Chavez, and there was little reason to believe that any referendum against Chavez would be upheld.

Imagine if, after George Bush was elected, he published the voting records and proceeded to fire all the civil servants who voted for John Kerry (down to the GS-7 level). That is Chavez's Venezuela. It has little to do with democracy as we know it in the U.S.

To the guy who writes: "Meanwhile poverty is up 10% in the last seven years, GDP is still negative in the same period"... GDP is/was "negative"? I think you need to get your economics in order. They may have had negative growth (e.g. 2003 due to the national strikes) but not negative GDP.

Julio, you have the misconception that before Chávez there was nothing, and that Venezuela was a 'savage capitalist' country. Venezuela, in all its democratic period (the longest of all of the spanish-speaking world), has _always_ had governments that where far to the left of the U.S. Democrats.

Read this article by a fellow blogger, so you can understand some of the history:
http://blogs.salon.com/0001330/2005/09/03.html#a2445

Were there problems?, sure, but never as many as we now have.

Good job Jefferson, is quite telling to see that none of the Chavez apologists commenting above are actually Venezuelan citizens. One can even see how a writer from a marxist website pretends to ride in the coattail of this site to promote articles. Pathetic indeed. Our country has become a cover version of the Animal Farm and the neo-communists are just salivating over the prospect of a re-edition of the Cuban disaster.

Its funny that several you cite political repression and intimidation but not a single international observing body disagreed with the electoral process, nor cited irregularities leading up to elections. Perhaps they're lying? Were they intimidated by big bad communist henchmen too?

Data and statistics about Venezuela:

http://vcrisis.com/index.php?content=data

I have to laugh when I read such propaganda about voting fraud.

I promise you that however much fraud went on during the Venezuelan elections, it was NOT even a fraction of the fraud that took place in the last two USA Presidential elections. I will not allow anyone to float such falsehoods about voter fraud in Venezuela. Give me a break! The fact is that voters in Venezuela actually received a paper confirmation of whom they voted for. Show me one single instance of any voter in the US who can actually prove to me that his or her vote counted! None! Nada! Silch!

The rumor goes that the voting system is the USA is so rigged that Karl Rove actually had access to all electronic voting records in Florida and Ohio and was able to manipulate then numbers at will.

I refuse to listen to any lecture about voter fraud and intimidation till we clean up our own system.

Note to Rodrigo: European election monitors (OSCE) left because they didn't feel they were being allowed to adequately monitor the voting process. The Carter Center stayed, but I believe they noted some of the intimidation going on.

From all the readers that have posted their comments, once again, the ones who oppose Chavez are the ones that have the least knowledge of what has historically happened in Venezuela prior to Chavez. These people are either Republicans or oligarchs that have migrated from Venezuela posting these ridiculous comments. Chavez has certainly initiated a transformation process as no other President in Venezuela. Chavez is genuinely worried about the poor. Unfortunately, there have been a lot of opposition people that have joined the Chavez ranks just in the name of being able to suck on the tit and are trying to disrupt the process. Chavez has done what no other President has done. Those who stated that poverty is up, don't realize that there was a coup in 2002 and a oil strike for 3 MONTHS!!! that cost Venezuela over $10 billion in those 3 months alone. But the process still survived. Those who right against Chavez in this country, are the ones that have enjoyed individualism and capitalism. People who have never bothered helping poor. Poors in Venezuela have been like for decades and decades. One generation after the other. People who were middle class and all of the sudden became poor because the other goverments raped and took all the riches from the economy. Goverments that were never interested in the people. Hospitals that don't work, schools buildings shameful conditions. Children on the streets. Nobody ever before Chavez had addressed these issues. Poor people with no land and filthy rich people who either them or their ancestors stole land. DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING THAT RICH PEOPLE SAY IN VENEZUELA. These became rich because they cheated all the time. The majority of these people took advantage of the corrupt system or pillaged our country. Now, don't get me wrong but many did work and became rich but but the majority didn't. Clear example, all these thieves that left Venezuela when Chavez came in and settled in Miami. PLEASE, ALL OF Y'ALL, DO SOMETHING FOR THE POOR OF VENEZUELA. JOIN THE CAUSE. DON'T BE HATERS!!! God Bless!

I just returned from Venezuela; spent a week in Caracas. I could go into a lot of detail about what I saw and heard regarding the expatriation of private property, but let me just say that the government is simply wrongly using the law to take revenge on old enemies.

Chavez gave an interview from his jail call (when he was imprisoned from trying to overthrow a democratically-elected government) in which he said that one huge farm in the state of Barinas used to belong to his great-grandfather, and that the property documents "must be somewhere with our family". Well, the government recently expropriated (stole) this highly productive farm from its rightful owners, who have been so for decades. The "law" says that idle lands owned by citizens or companies can be taken away by the government and given to farmers. The problem is that farmers were already working on this farm, and now that the government took it over (to settle an old -personal grudge of the president) workers are not being allowed in, which means they won't be paid and the food will rot since no one is harvesting it.

This is just one example of how the "man of the people" works to fulfill his psychotic wish of remaining in power "until 2030"... I'm not even going to go into how Chavez personally is in charge of the attorney general's office, the (supposedly neutral) electoral council, the ombudsman, and even the Supreme Court... It's totally untrue that this authoritarian madman has the support of the general public, except for those who have been bought or are stupid enough to believe in this nonsensical revolution... the big winner: his friend Fidel Castro, who finally has fulfilled his 40-year old dream of controlling (and living off) oil-rich Venezuela.

God help our poor Venezuela.

Jefferson, Chavez did not win 70% of the vote in last year's recall, but 59%. Second that very results is believe to have not being the true representation of the electorate's will due to the illegal actions of electoral authorities at the time of scrutiny. Third if there's still any doubt as to the real nature of Fidelito check this one out:

Irrefutable Proof of the Existence of Political Prosecution in Venezuela

http://vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200509152101

Note to the sycophants: pls spare us the parallelisms between Chavez and Bush.

Hey Diego;
How is everything you just described about power any different from what is going on the US as we speak?
May God Help the USA.

What's happening to the $250 million that the corrupt Chavez goverment is getting in excess oil revenue EACH DAY? Why is Venezuela losing jobs each month, creating a massive informal economy, and assuring its citizens lower and lower standards of living as time goes on? All the Chavistas are living the life: Hummers, Mansions all over the country, international travel, expensive dinners, etc. They don't even have the courtesy of hiding their ill-gotten riches...

For all the liberals out there (and I am very much one when it comes to US politics), I would suggest you take a trip to Barrio Negro Primero or the charming neighborhood of 23 de Enero and ask the common citizen if he is living better and what Chavez has done for him, besides tormenting everyone with rambling four-hour, a la Fidel speeches forced on all private media whenever he feels like it. Please, don't fight your Republican/Democrat war in Caracas, it just doesn't apply, and you're helping nobody.

It probably isn't, but that doesn't make Chavez any better...

This goes out to THE THINKER. Are you really thinking? Cuz my guess is you're not even in Venezuela. And for Diego, look at his last names and you'll realize he's writing that because he is also an oligarch that goes back and forth to Venezuela(when he misses it). Because I assure you he's not living there. Not helping the poor. He's in the US living his selfish capitalist lifestyle.

Do you know where Barquisimeto is? That's where I'm from, Diego. Oh, another guess, I've bet you've never been into that Barrio either, have you?

I am thinking very well, thanks, but I'm helping no one else do it, sorry.

Yes, of course I have. But again, my personal circumstances don't affect the nature of this discussion. I'll be happy to talk about the facts... Anyone else on the same trend of thought?

Edgar;

My Answer is that I do know the History of Venezuelan Politics enough to understand the events from a historical perspective. Yes, I do understand that all political parties that have controlled the government since 1956 were patterned after the European Social Democrats; and, that their policies always included many social program such as free education through college and free healthcare. Anyone who really wanted to get ahead could.

I know enough to know hat given the wealth of the country we should have been able to build an egalitarian society in Venezuela that could have been the envy of the French and world.

I cry for Venezuela because we wasted so much time and resources. I cry for them because I am old enough to know what it could have been. I am fearful that the world has now become too treacherous and dangerous for anything good to come out of it.

The truth of the matter is that, poor people in Venezuela do support the process. The process itself will not change that financial staus but it will teach them how to not be poor ever again by giving them the tools they need to prosper and help others, unlike here. These poor people have become resentful towards society and that is the reason why there is so much crime. The important thing here is to empower people so they can organize and improve society and things. Chavez has been doing that. Chavez will not stay in power until 2030 but he will always play an important role in that revolution until then.

Julio do you actually believe that such paper confirmation means anything, jajajajaj please get a clue.

Hey Juancho do you live here in the US? Do you actually believe all that caca about poor people not been poor ever again if given the right tools? Please!

JC;
Let me put it to you this way. The voting system that Chavez endorsed and put in place in Venezuela is exactly the same plan developed at HARVARD UNIVERSITY in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

I would rather put my faith in a system developed at Harvard University than one developed by a bunch of Christian Fundamentalists hell bent on turning the USA into a Theocracy.

Julio:
It was also a Harvard Professor (Ricardo Hausman) that wrote a mathematical paper that attempted to show fraud in the voting patterns for the Aug. 15 Referendum. So, please do not put Harvard on the side of Chavismo.

I read that paper and it's in fact very convincing (I am an economist/statistician), especially when you think about all the last-minute tricks that the CNE did to avoid scrutiny and make any neutral checks of the voting data virtually impossible.

Hey Guys;
I have to go. The sentinels have shown up. Reasoned discussion is no longer possible here. It is amazing how good their matrix is. Thank your for allowing me to express my opinion here today.

Sure Julio, viva Chavez and the revolution wooo hooo! jejejej I love politics, theh only thing we need with this es una caja de polar light bien frias jajajaj

I feel so sad when people in the US or anywhere else, who have never visited Venezuela or have a clue of what's going on there, put Chavez or anyone who contradicts Bush on the axis of good governors, or even worse believe Chavez B.S that he is really there for the poor.

For all of you here are some eye opening references:
Did you know that Hugo Chavez has a weekly TV show named Alo Presidente (that easily last 4 hours every Sunday) where lately he has been stating that it's good to be poor and that we Venezuelans should beware of anybody selling us the idea of wishing for more because it's evil
All of this, while people on his cabinet are getting loaded with money belonging to the government, moving to the richest neighborhoods in Caracas, and rumbling the roads with their new SVU HUMMER.
But of course, when someone mentions this to them they insists that people in previous government did the same, so why should they miss their golden opportunity.

Did you know that before Hugo Chavez came into power in 1999, we Venezuelans were used to seeing social differences (mainly based in income not race), but that at the end of the day we all partied, mingled and ate at the same places.
Today this is gone, this government has instituted a regime of social hatred where citizens are continuously brainwashed (through millionaire campaigns) by the idea that the President is there to support the poor, the previous governments were just a bunch of oligarchs who did not want the poor to prosper; therefore if you are not poor you should be hated because we assume that you hate us.
(This is the part that is often misunderstood and use for hidden agendas overseas. Some people use this argument to say that poor people are of darker color in Venezuela and of course the whiter oligarchy hates the idea of seeing them coming in to power. Pure BS, as I said before in Venezuela people do not think of social differences based on race, but in terms of income and education...In fact one of the leaders of the opposition is black.

The sad part is that while Chavez says that he is there for the poor, poverty has doubled since he came into power 7 years ago. People are dying in public hospitals because of lack of medicines and resources, and marginality has grown exponentially. All of this while the government it's experiencing one of the highest economic super plus in history due to high oil prices.

But continuing my list.
Did you that in Venezuela now there is the idea that you are either with the revolution or you are better off leaving Venezuela

Citizens cannot find jobs in the public sector if they do not express openly that they are in favor of the revolution and its actions (same way it worked in any communist country in Eastern Europe). Ironically, they cannot find employment with the private industry either because unemployment is rampant and the economy is so bad that the few industries left are closing down

Did you know that in the past years the Venezuelan Congress that is majoritarily Chavista has passed laws to apply censorship to the local media, laws to cut the autonomy of the NationalTreasury Bank, laws that have given more power than ever to the Executive power and more laws to appoint more judges to the Supreme Court( judges that are named by finger by Chavez)
Do you know that law projects are not even discussed at Congress in Venezuela because the Chavista majority passes feels there is no need to discuss even when there is some congressman in the opposition they don't agree with?

Do you know that in Venezuela people do not vote anymore because they lost their hopes of replacing this government? After all Chavez controls elections and all the intitutions that watch for fair elections

It should be noted that the Heinz plant has been shuttered for years... Nobody's taking over a live, up-and-running Heinz plant in Venezuela. Also, many of the other factory sites being taken over are either out of business or closed down long ago. Why not make the properties useful again, even if they end up being collectively-owned or state owned? Even though Chavez is crazy, I wish the U.S. press would at least recognize the good things he has done for people from time to time. We need to applaud leaders when they do the right thing, and boo them when they do the wrong thing.

I almost forgot... Heinz isn't doing too badly in Venezuela anyway: another Heinz plant is fully operational in the city of San Joaquin, employing more than 700 and has not had any problems with government intervention. The Chavez framework to seize property stipulates that the property must be "unused"; they aren't going after businesses that are up-and-running folks.... once again, lack of clarity and background from the U.S. media...

When Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal, It was their country and their business. When Great Britain, France, and Israel invaded Egypt, Eisnhower fell on them like a ton of bricks and pressured them to get out. I supported Eisnehower. What happens in Venezuela is Venezuelan business. American companies who take American jobs overseas deserve eveything they are getting.

This so called president against the rich, is one of the richest in Venezuela, and his demagogic message,is similar to the so called cuban revolution for the poor.Cuba today is poorer than ever thanks to Fidel and his revolution, and guess who is the best Chavez's advisor,Mr Castro.In the international level, we have to be carefull with a dictator like this one, because he does have resources to hurt people.America has to spot being naive with all these dictators and start to look at them as what they are, dangerous dictators with a profound hate against your country.Roberto from Colombia.

MS, one thing that you fail to mention is that the inactive Heinz plant has been offered for sale before (including direct offers to the Venezuelan government). So why take by force something that they could have bought without any controversy?. Not to mention that it is illegal to do such thing under our current constitution.

Errhh... Just a point of detail.

My blog is cited when mentioning Chavez as an "intoxicated fool". I would like to draw the attention that this is not quite right. If I think that Chavez is a fool on occasion, and that sometimes he acts as if he were an intoxicated soldier on leave, I did not use these two words together, in a meaning that could lead people to think that Chavez is a drunk and thus committing foolish acts. He might well be but I have no direct evidence of this.

When I referred to intoxication I referred that him being near the Bronx river maybe some toxic waste fumes (a reputation the Bronx River had in the past) might have affected his best judgment when he offered what he offered then, namely free gas and a clean river:

http://daniel-venezuela.blogspot.com/2005/09/chavez-makes-fool-of-himself.html

If I make this observation here is that because of the new penal code of Venezuela and a repressive "gag" law, I cannot write such thing (even if true since the high court would never allow me to investigate Chavez). In fact, just because Jefferson Morley writes that I stated that (even in quotes), I could be accused of who knows what by some state prosecutor who has no sense of irony or style. Much bigger people than me have been accused for much less than that. This is what happens in lawless countries, no matter what some supporters of Chavez write above, not knowing at all what is really happening in Venezuela. I live here and I suffer the consequences of their wishful thinking, expressed from the safety their first world home.

I wish, while I am at it, to congratulate the Washington Post for what is one of the best and least biased coverage of the Venezuelan reality. It is actually impressive that the Washington Post manages to hold such a balance, of recognizing the misery of Venezuelan poors while recognizing the misery of the Chavez administration. Too many newspapers are only too willing to forgive all of Chavez abuses just because he has "his heart in the right place". Just do not get me and other Venezuelan bloggers in trouble :-)

Juancho, inefficiency, populism, caudillism, concentration of power and lack of institutionality does not help the poor. The terrible divide to conquer strategy that Chavez has sistematically used to put Venezuelans against Venezuelans, does not help the poor. The militarization of the country and the destruction of democratic institutions does not help the poor. Applying short-term bandaid policies sustained by high oil prices to gain popularity, does not help the poor in the long run.

Chavez is a good old Venezuelan caudillo, a PUTCHIST, that is using all the tricks in the book to stay in power. He wants to control absolutely everything in Venezuela. Chavez is a huge step backward for the development of a long-term sustainable and effective democracy.

And, without a strong democracy, there is no way to improve the standard of living of the poor people of Venezuela.

It is time to stop using the poor as a comodity to accept any type of abuses by the Chavista regime.

Yes to social justice, no to Chavez.

Any democratically elected head of state who stands up to Bush and shows him up for the fool he is has my admiration. The man may be an egomaniac with authoritarian tendencies but he's a hell of a lot dangerous than your deluded dunce of a president. And, unlike Bush, he at least was democratically elected from the outset. Instead of running a U.S.-allied kleptocracy the way his predecessors did, Chavez is actually redistributing some of Venezuela's vast wealth to those who need it most. That bothers rich Venezuelans and pleases most of the rest. It amuses me how single-mindedly the oligarchy's well-financed private TV networks keep fulminating about Chavez's "dictatorship." In a true dictatorship, they'd be gone! The Venezuelan people elected Chavez and gave him an overwhelming mandate to pursue social change. That's a threat to upper classes, for whom the old ways worked just fine. And it's a threat to the ideologues of the Bush administration. Fortunately, no one in the rest of the world truly listens to them any more.
Wayne Turmel
Montreal

The fact that Chavez is an inept president who heads the longest and most corrupt and militaristic government in Venezuelan history is irrelevant to the Bush haters. Apparently being"democratically elected" and talking against the US government is enough for the Bush-haters to feel admiration for the guy. For them, Venezuela is only a far away place where they can play their ideological fantasies.

The fact is that measured in objective terms the current Venezuelan "administration" compares very poorly to any of the previous governments. On any measure. The statistics are there for anyone who wishes to see. Statements such as "Chavez is actually redistributing some of Venezuela's vast wealth to those who need it most" is just propaganda unsupported by any evidence whatsoever.

"All the Chavistas are living the life: Hummers, Mansions all over the country, international travel, expensive dinners, etc. They don't even have the courtesy of hiding their ill-gotten riches..." The Thinker's quote is true adding, of course, Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez to the list of Les Nouveaux Rich.

Please read the following link to clarify some doubts that you may have about Chavez:

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/What_to_Do.pdf written by Michael Waller, PhD.

Just in case, no one is paying me for expressing my views. I am just outraged about the Chavez regime.

Maru Angarita
My blog is: http://maruangarita.blogspot.com/

Oh boy, where to begin:

First to the person saying Venezuela's economy hasn't grown. In 2004 it grew by 17.4% and so far this year by over 9% (11% in the second quarter). So once the stupic opposition strike ended it has boomed. Also poverty was up as of 2003 ie when the strike happened. I think the numbers will be completely different when they come out for 2004 and 2005.

The Referendum (where Chavez won 58 or 59% not 70%) was monitored by the Carter center AND the OAS and they both concluded it was free of fraud. It was studied by independent academic experts from Johns Hopkins, Princeton, Berkely, etc who also said it showed no evidence of fraud and refuted the flimsy work of Hausman (a long time anti-Chavez activist who is hardly unbiased)

Repression and intimidation in Venezuela????? Whoever said that has never been to Venezuela or is smoking something. Most media in Venezuela are solidly anti Chavez. There is complete freedom of expression and political activity.

The opposition's problem is it is completely despised for being massively corrupt (they did nothing but steal when they ran the country), for fighting any attempt to reform the country and make it more equitable, and for their strike that put untold hardship on many people.

Good sources of info:

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/

http://fuego.net/index.php

http://www.oilwars.blogspot.com/

http://www.vheadline.com/main.asp

http://www.rethinkvenezuela.com/index.html

Please know that the Chavista sites in referenced in message #54 are government funded.

Correction:

Please know that the Chavista sites in referenced in message #54 posted by Sandy are allegedly government funded.

Sandy, with an oil barrel close to 70$ it would be extremely difficult for the Venezuelan economy not to grow! Chavez has been in power for almost 7 years, how do tou explain then that poverty and extreme poverty figures have gone up during his mandate? The guy does not know how to create sustainable wealth and that is his problem.

Giving away the money in short-term programs to boost his popularity is not good a way to improve the standard of living. And keeping the country divided and in constant fight is not a way to lead towards prosperity.

And since you mentioned the referendum...many studies by many scholars, not only Hausman and Rigobon, showed inconsistency in the results. The Prado and Sanso paper showed that there were severe discrepancies between the exit polls and the results of the Referendum. Where the exit polls correct or not? We will never know, but that was enough for any serious democratic electoral entity to do a total manual recount. They had the duty to show, without the shadow of a doubt that the system was fair and clean.

Unfortunately, only a limited audit in less than ideal conditions was carry out. The observers, both the OAS and the Carter Center, should have demanded that all the boxes were opened so that Venezuelans regain confidence in their electoral system. They did not, and, as a result, Venezuelans, even those that voted for Chavez, will never be sure of what happened on August 15, 2004.

If the results were correct, Why did the CNE (Venezuela electoral entity) refuse to open the boxes and check all the ballots?

Here are the links to the Prado and Sanso paper:

http://www.ams.ucsc.edu/reports/trview.php?content=view&name=ams2004-06

And this is the link to a compilation of the studies on the results of the RR:

http://blogs.salon.com/0001330/categories/rrModels/

Everyone is evil and against freedom except for me.

Sandy

The numbers you quote are meaningless because:

1) the government numbers are basically unauditable, and certainly not by independent parties. NOBODY knows for sure which are the real Venezuelan numbers.

2) with a Venezuelan oil average price in the 50 USD, up from 20 two years ago, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for Venezuela not to show growth, be it with imaginary or real numbers.

3) that growth has nothing to do with Chavez policies or opposition strikes, it is solely due to China appetites and political unrest in the Middle East. Chavez is a heck of a lucky man.

4) and any growth, such as it might be taking place, is still in the traditional sectors of raw materials and semi processed ones such as steel. I see steel been exported but I do not see washing machines. Steel is an interesting case as most of the energy used is from the Guri dam and thus with sky high energy prices in the traditional steel mills, Venezuelan steel has become competitive again in spite of aging infrastructure, recalcitrant unions, transport problems, general inefficiency, etc... In fact some numbers of the Venezuelan economy are quite scary such as the fact that Venezuela produces ONLY 80 % of the food stuff produced in 1998. In this particular aspect, Chavez policies of importing food to subsidize it for political gains is the sole culprit, giving us a looming disaster in the near future as oil might drop some and suddenly there will be not enough money to buy all the food Venezuela is used to buy.

Sandy, it seems that the one who is not living in Venezuela is you. I suggest that you diversify your sources of economic information if you cannot check on site the reality of the economic flow in Venezuela.

This is what I like to see,after a story people saying what they have to say but I ask you who is right? All have their sides here,here is a man who is doing what he can in his time. Is he totally honest, is he right? These are questions that we ask as humans every day, in all countries.In our world today there are so many who call for so many things, some with their own interests some with a greater collective in mind, but I ask you all if a person who got on TV called for youre death a government called for you to be gone would you not have something to say? I admire the fact he has enough reason to say to us not the people but the politics as we use their gas and fill up at their stations and drive into tomorrow night without our headlights on.Thank you Post, for more to think of thank you Mr.Chavez for the courage of conviction.

Anyone who stands up to that thick-headed, deluded, warmongering liar, George W. Bush, has my support.

I don't understand the off-hand comparison between voting machines in Ohio and voting machines in Venezuela. In Ohio a lot of angry Kerry people made a lot of noise, but nobody ever found any substance to the notion that there was electoral fraud. Isn't there overwhelming proof of voting fraud in the recent polls in Venezuela? Haven't the results in Ohio been subject to repeated bipartisan audits? Why imply some sort of moral equivalence between the votes in Ohio and the votes in Venezuela?

As Venezuelan, you really have to feel sorry for the ignorants that suport Chavez. It's true, past governmets did not do much for Venezuela, if anything at all, but Chavez has not done much either. The People voted for him, so the people will learn the hard way. Sad but true. Every country is under the regime it deserves, and Venezuela is not the eception.

In the United States, as with anti-Chavez Venezuelans, "Democracy" and "Freedom" are code words for unregulated capitalism. We will soon need a Hugo Chavez of our own.

I think Gustavo Cisneros and his corrupt cronies should get back into power in Venezuela. Poor people are receiving too many social services under Chavez, Cisneros could get revenues flowing to the power elite, whether petroleum or media.

eg

Guevon: You don't understand the rich are getting MUCH richer under Chavez. Look at the banks. Look at Chavez' cronies. Look at Smartmatic. Look at thos buying polleras. Look at Mercal and its suppliers. Look at Cisneros. Open your eyes. You are getting screwed again, but this time you are smiling.

As an outsider living in Venezuela I have tried to anylize things from an objective veiwpoint. With lands issue, they do the same thing in the US and it's called (imminent domain) As for responsability in the media they call it the FCC and any broadcaster will tell you how they govern very subjectively what is said. Americans have complained for decades that the US government is always ready to spend on wars or give money and other aid to all types of governments around the world while ignoring the poverty that exists at home. For example health insurance, elderly people dying of cold or heat because they cannot pay their utilities, the endless cycle of racism and crime due to the hopelessness of some minorities. The answere seems to be lock em all up in prison. About corruption, finnaly they are at least making an effort to apear as if they are cracking down on the wall street thugs who are robbing the middle class of their investments for retirement. The government is as corrupt as any in the US but maby just better at hiding it. I am taking a wait and see on Chavez. I dont think he has had enough time yet to be judged. It has been a long time coming for a redistribution of the wealth here in Venezuela and I would like to see some of these things happen in my home country, the USA. We are in unchartered waters all over the world and it is time to make revolutionary changes if this world is going to survive. Terrorism is the byproduct un injustice. It is people saying things must change and right now. It is an act of desperation rather than just badly bread peoples like the Bush administration would have us think.

I imagine the people who voted for Bush are sorry now if they know whats going on in the world. That is the problem that the majority of people in any country are fairly ignorant and it is the majority who chooses the leaders. Ironic huh

The US has become a third rate bully with huge economic problems coming soon. It is hard to imagine the Bush administration having the gaul to critic anyone. If Chavez is able to pull off his plans as I understand them Venezuela could be a model for the US to follow. Times are changin folks and the stus quo just does not work anymore. The question America has to ask itself is this: Do we want to be the biggest bully on the block or do we want our people to have the economic advantages they deserve. Until we have our house in order we have no business judging others.

Ignorant be the ones who blindely support Chavez just becuase he hates Bush. You're logic should dictate that you support North Korean and Iranian leaders, as well as Osama bin Laden.