Unless the MSM does its job, the Pentagon will succeed (as before) in covering this up -- at least, covering it up as far as the American people are concerned. The rest of the world will see and hear about this.

More evidence of this administration's callous disregard for the rule of law and Geneva Conventions. Like Abu Graib this will probably be blamed on a few rouge soldiers and not be delt with for what it is, a breakdown in the military disipline the USA thought was the best in the world. I never thought it would be possible for one administration to so totally screw up so many parts of government in such a short time.

Please tell your Internet editors to give this reporting you've done today, Jeff, more play/prominent positioning. It's a story that MUST be conveyed and read. Thank you for your coverage.

You all are talking as if Bush invented war. You can rest assured that the 18-year-olds who fought world war 2, the 100 years' war, and the peloponnesian wars did similar things.

They just didn't have digital cameras and a sheltered, self-righteous chattering class that would be shocked, shocked i tell you, to find out.

How wide spread are these images through the Islamic world? Reflect on the fact that the dead are Iraqi's. They have surviving families and friends. The horrow of war that the US enacted upon Iraq for the known lies of WMD and terrorist ties, clearly illustrated here, is what keeps the insurgents (resistance) fighting against the American occupation. How can Iraqis see the people who would do these kinds of things to their sons, fathers and kin as liberators? How can the occupying force ever be seen as a moral force?

How do you expect to win?

P:
Bush didn't invent war, but he did invent pre-emptive war. And when it was found to have been based on "inaccurate information" instead of being a good American and admitting the mistake and fixing it he created new reasons for his war and has done little to fix the intelligence problem. His administation argued against the Geneva Conventions and produced a "Torture Memo" providing assurances that tourture was ok in this administration.

There were cameras in Vietnam, lots of them. There was lots of blood, gore and fire. I saw it every night on TV during that war. But I don't reemember those 19 year olds doing what was done at Abu Graib or what is reported to be in these photos. And if there were, that would still not be any justification. We are Americans. We do not base our actions on the actions of our enemies. We live by a higher standard and are proud of it. Its time we demanded our armed forces to act like Americans or face severe punishments. That should also include this administration.

First we were told that we were going into Iraq because of the WMD. Then we didn't find any.

Then we were told that we had gone into Iraq to prevent The Iraqi People from becoming victims of war crimes at the hands of Saddam Hussein. Then came Abu Ghraib.

Next we were told that we had gone into Iraq to establish a (presumably pro-Western) democracy which would become a stabilizing force in the Middle East. Then the constitutional process broke down, and now the country is headed toward a civil war.

The latest line, pedaled by gullible media pundits like Thomas Friedman, is that "We should arm the Shiites and Kurds and leave the Sunnis of Iraq to reap the wind." That will leave the Iranian mullahs as the only clear winners of this foolish war.

We have shifted the reason for this war so many times now that we have lost our way. Web sites like this one testify to the "Apocalypse Now"-like mentality that is settling over the whole Iraq war. When a diligent and honorable soldier spends 17 months trying to get a clarification on what this administration actually means when it claims we will treat prisoners "humanely" only to find out that there is no standard for humane treatment of prisoners; when our soldiers abuse the dead in this manner; when our whole political infrastructure is so corrupt that the leadership all over Washington is either under indictment or threat of indictment...

We have stayed too long for any possible good we might have once done. While leaving will be a calamity, staying would be even more catastrophic. It is time for us to go home; and long past time for the American people to hold George W. Bush and his administration responsible for their crimes.

You said you wouldn't link to the site or print its name, but you provided a link to an article that does include the site name as well as a selection of the photos in question. So ... you did provide a link. Thanks.

from roman circuses to soldier blue, from heads on spikes in tudor england to the demonic beheadings performed on video in the name of allah, sadly this story and its' pictures are nothing new.

those of us who have not worked at war are now aware of the pornography of atrocity that are the parameters peace.these pictures represent the mostly untold war stories of combat vets from all wars.

all this stuff is as offensive to most of us as child pornography. if censorship is not to be re-introduced to control such monkey business, then an international offence within the human rights field should.

honour and decency are a fine green lines; msm bleating and liberal hypocracy will not repair the collateral damage to the human spirit that pornography inflicts.

Bush didn't invent preemptive war Sully. He just waged this one. Bush didn't post photos online for porn, nor did he tie a leash on anyone. I'm not saying the administration and Pentagon brass don't have some culpability in Abu Ghraib, but individuals are ultimately responsible for their own actions. Bush has done a lot wrong. But the knee-jerk Bush bashing in these threads is tired, uninteresting and, frankly, not very intelligent. And by the way, P, just b/c this isn't new, doesn't mean it's not shocking. We should be shocked. Our sense of moral outrage is what keeps us human.

CN:
You're right that Bush bashing is getting tired, but not because its not without merit. Its not a photo or a memo, its the totality of what is happening to and in government and the military that gets me to bash this administation.

I remember the Vietnam era too. I served in the Military from 1955 to 1965. I just barely qualified for the Vietnam G.I. Bill. Initially, I regarded it as just another flare-up in the Cold War. I had been around the block a few times, so I didn't buy into the Tonkin Gulf Incident. But, I did have the Cold War mind set. However, I did a 180 degree turn when I read about Mylai, and heard some other stories from returning Veterans. This is when I wanted us out of Vietnam.
Remembering Vietnam and my experiences in the Cold War standoff between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, the idea that a small Middle Eastern country, even with nuclear weapons, as a threat was ridiculous. I opposed the Iraq war from the start, but remembering Vietnam and Mylai, I wrote to all my representatives about following the rules of war in this conflict. Of course, my voice is lost in a crowd, and we have Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, and, God knows what else. I have the same feeling I had about Mylai. I want somebody's rear end to fry over these abuses. In my opinion, the People who ordered these abuses, from the President on down ought to fry. They brought dishonor on the millions of people who have died defending the Constitution and the Bill of Right. I want us out of Iraq too. The Bush Administrattion has mess up so badly, I don't think we can fix it. Hopefully the Iraqis can do the job.

Using the "fog of war" argument to justify this appalling indecency is a shame. These blatant violations of Uniform Code of Conduct deserve severe punishment. The soldiers who disrespect the dead enemy and on top of that use the images as a currency to access on-line porn are a disgrace for the armed forces of this country. They did not pause to think how much damage they are inflicting on the U.S. efforts to stabilize Iraq. How are the newly minted Iraqi troops who are supposed to be trained by the U.S. forces will look at their instructors after this?

This story was actually first covered some 6 weeks ago on
http://www.iraq-war.ru/tiki-index.php
It took about a month for it to move from the Arabic supporting blog world to the European world. Iraq-War is an interesting site that mixes fairly out-there content with real breaking news.

Considering how much damning material is circulating in the Arabic world that even our own progressive blogs miss, one can conclude the battle for their "Hearts and Minds" is already over and lost

opw

I heard about this story last Saturday when a local host on AirAmerica Radio spoke about it. Don't try to view the site. I did and am still disturbed. Trust me, I thought I'd seen it all and was a hardened individual. This shook me to my core. Such a pity that the men who are fighting in "my" name in Iraq are ruined. Ruined men. What the heck are we going to do with them when they come home?

It is not Bush-bashing to blame Bush for not clearly and unequivocally denouncing abuses and making a clear statement that the US will adhere to the Geneva Conventions and does not condone torture or abuse. Instead, he waivers and continues to support the need for flexibility and tactics such as Guantanomo Bay, while denying meaningful access to those facilities.

It is Bush's lack of a clear policy supporting the Geneva Conventions and setting the rules of proper prisoner treatment that is so damaging to American ideals and world standing.

Yes, we should blame Bush.

I have to admit that I misread the context of the "Gore-for-smut" headline. I honestly thought that Tipper Gore was in the news again, this time for an alleged secret fondness for porn. Sigh. It would be nice if the biggest news stories of the day were as trivial as the lyrics in Ice T's songs.

Yes you can link to Andrew Sullivans site and then click on the link to the porn site, I did this back when it was orginally posted. I could only take a couple of photos, guess I am just squeemish. But its really ugly. Having lived in the Middle East, I cant tell you how horribly this will impact public opinion there, but we will NEVER be seen as the same country again.

We have become a Stalins Russia, a Hitlers Germany, a Pol Pot Cambodia. Like those German friends who would appologize for Hitler and WW2, we are shamed for life and my sons life too.

Between the Human Rights Watch account of us torturing the PUCs (POWs), these photos and the Abu Ghrib photos (and more of those are coming...hooowee) we had better hope might makes right, because so little else of this is right.

My counry love it or leave it...are they still taking applications for Canadian citizenship?

Somewhere UBL must be smiling.

Bush has absolutely said that the United States will abide by the Geneva Conventions. Unequivocally. So has Rumsfeld. However, many people have not done so. Some rightly cite memos from Alberto Gonzales and the Pentagon for contributing to these abuses. The Washington Post did some good reporting on this.

This is another example of an action vs. rhetoric disconnect from this administration.

Individuals are ultimately responsible for their own actions. Soldiers who allegedly shared photos of dead combatants for porn weren't doing so b/c of a Military Intelligence directive while on guard at Abu Ghraib. The two are different.

Lastly, on Bush bashing, the folks in this thread seem to relish it and enjoy and, frankly, turn to it too easily not b/c Bush is at fault, but b/c they hate Bush and will jump on that beaten down old horse whenever it ambles by.

He's the president and that's unfortunate. But these issues have a life and a value for discussion behind knee-jerk hatred for the Republican president.

Jeff, I guess this proves yet again: If you want REAL news on what's happening in America and American policy, ignore all the American media and instead read the foreign press.

Bush invented pre-emptive war? Here's Machiavelli in The Prince, praising the Romans, who "when troubles were coming ... always took counter-measures. They never, to avoid a war, allowed them to go unchecked, because they knew that there is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others."

And so it goes and has always gone, however wilfully ignorant of history most commentators here seem to be.

Nicely put, Mark.

And Rome was . . . what? An empire, you say? VERY good!

Empires certainly "do" preemptive war. Nothing new there.

The question is, do we want to do what empires have done and ultimately face the same fate as empires face? Or do we hope to be what we proclaim: "Novus Ordo Seclorum?"

The only novelty in Bush's hateful little grandstand act is that he put the U.S. in the preemptive position for the first time in the "modern" era. And that will cost us even more dearly than it already has.

Does this devastating article by Mr. Morley appear in the Washington Post newspaper or just on the internet?

connecting a few dots here and there:

remember how kerry was crucified then swift-boated for daring to suggest that our troops engage in ignoble behavior during war?

also, this revelation allows us all to move beyond -- to rethink -- the grandstanding, cheerleading and sloganeering which perpetuates mindless participation and callous collusion in monstrous behavior.

for example, plastering our public lives with "support our troops" marketing billboards of all shapes, colors and sizes suddenly takes on more meaning, and dare i hope a more complex and maturely humane thought process.

This story needs to make it to the evening news/morning newspapers.

WOW,
Yes, they are accepting applications. Please take one.

Wow! We just keep digging the hole deeper. This administration has pretty much adopted the outlook that anything goes in this so-called "war against terrorism." As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

What we are doing to Iraq and the Iraqi people is obscene. I am ashamed for my country.