Who cares what anyone else in the world thinks??? I sure don't.

I care. We all share this planet's resources, and I can understand their views on this.

I can imagine how it might be satisying to the rest of the world to see the mighty U.S. of A. stumble so badly. It is human nature - we enjoy seeing the mighty fall.

What the press saw, and read about were two different things. They saw "black" not middle income people in trouble, not upper income people. They saw "black, a sea of black. Black people in trouble in America. Nothing new, so the powers that be in America said, "let them eat cake.

James A. Hairston

Baggini's holier than thou comments are abhorrent. Americans sent huge amounts of private donations, along with military aid, to tsunami victims despite armed rebellion and years of repression in some areas. Mr. Baggini apparently also has little to say about Britain's policies in Northern Ireland, not to mention South Africa's pathetic human rights track record. His opinion can hardly be newsworthy in this forum.

If I stooped as low as those people, I would no longer contribute to any of there so called disasters. But I will not be drug down to the dung heap. I will continue to help those in need even if they critisize the nation who has contributed to more disaster relief than any other nation. I would like to see them do the same amount of service to others. But I don't think that day will ever come.

I guess it just proves that the rest of the world doesn't love us as much as we love ourselves.

People always want to knock down whoever is on top. Maybe its jealousy or maybe its just human nature, but when the world has witnessed us imposing our beliefs at every corner of the world (for example that democracy is the only way) the probably enjoy seeing us suffer a little bit.

A previous poster asks who cares what the rest of the world thinks.

We all should.

At some point we're going to need friends and allies. We can't police the entire world ourselves. We had the entire world on our side after 9/11. But our arrogance and hostility since has cost us enormously. Katrina was a low point in American life, and we should be ashamed of how it was handled. And, yes, it makes us look like idiots to the rest of the world. This and Abu Ghraib are now what so many, especially the young, are seeing of the US. Not really an advertisement for American supremacy, is it?

The previous poster should care if only because eventually this arrogance on our part will end up costing him in the pocketbook, as our taxes will have to ratchet up to pay for worldwide policing and to make up for the status position we've squandered in the past few years.

History teach us that sooner o later any mighty power or empire may witness a decline and all the lesser entities around it will contribute to its final fall. This is the best time to regain allies instead of making more enemies that we already have, otherwise those enemies will start circling the skies above us. As an american I feel profoundly distressed how my loved country has descended to such a level of indignity, where the US has gone?

I care very much what the US reputation is worldwide. That such monumental mistakes, oversights and unwillingness to make the fast, necessary decisions have been so botched is appalling. As a citizen, it is difficult to sit by and see the ridiculousness and be able to do only so much. I agree with "reality check this!" Where has my loved, county gone to leave so many of their own in the depths of such despair for so long? Why wouldn't the US accept help from other countries? Are we so arrogant (but in monumental debt) that we leave our own to perish? God help us all.

"We don't want to plug the gaping hole created by inegalitarian American social policy because we want to expose it for what it is, and shatter the US's self-image as the most fair and free country in the world," he says.

I'd suggest anyone who thinks the US universally sees itself as the most fair and free country in the world hasn't spent much time talking to Americans. I know many people, including myself, who are ACUTELY aware of our explicit and implicit social and racial inequalities. I just don't get sentiments like this. Spend some time finding allies rather than just railing against us for once.

Those who condem the US as being arrogant do not really understand what the US is really about and are part of the Problem.
If you are rich and honestly help people, does this mean your bad because you are rich. Does it mean you don not have true intentions to do your best. If you are poor, does this mean you are better than your rich neighbor? Don't be hippocrits people!!!

To me, I think that this type of gloating over american suffering is relatively poorly thought out. This is a scale of disaster that had never happened in this country, and while the initial response was terribly inadequate, i'm fairly certain that in five years, New Orleans will be close to where it was before. Meanwhile, in Bangladesh, it's fairly easy to rebuild from a flood when the majority of homes are corrugated metal shacks.
As for the rest of the world gloating, let them. It's part of the territory when you enjoy enormous leverage, and whether or not they assist us should not change the level of generosity we show the rest of the world.

Didn't Abraham Lincoln once say "we must all hang together or we will all hang separately"? Is there not a phrase in the New Testament about a house divided not being able to stand"? If we can outsource our peoples' jobs, hide our incomes in offshore tax shelters, and fill our groceries with the meat and produce of the whole world, at little cost to us consumers, where the ---- do we get off thinking we don't belong to the community of earth? I care like ---- what the Swiss and the Irish and the Tajiki think of the country I am part of.

It looks as if finally the house of cards and mirrors of the current administration is comming appart at the seams. It is easy to hide the disaster in Iraq and question the patriotism of any critics. However, those in power are obviously having much more trouble painting over the blatant truth of this disaster.

I look forward to next year's congressional elections.

M.A.
Florida

Not to deny that our response to Katrina was far below what it should have been, but I hardly see how Bangladesh has any right to gloat when they routinely report fatality counts in the six figures after "cyclones" that were probably not even as strong as Katrina was. Despite all our bumbling, the confirmed fatality count for Katrina has yet to hit a thousand, after many days of intensive searching.

>"we must all hang together or we will all hang separately"?

I believe that was Franklin.

This makes me think twice about the fact that I'm currently sponsoring two children in Ecuador. Obviously I'm not going to stoop to the level of these degenerates and stop sponsoring in spite, but I'm so sick of critics pointing to the harm our country does when it pales in comparison to all the good we do. And when I mean "we" I'm talking about the people of the US, NOT the government.

What the comments coming from others in the world show is that America has stumbled under Bush's leadership ... again. No WMD is just one of many many other examples. The world has been watching the US under Bush's leadership make mistake after mistake. Some destroyed whole countries, others killed servicemen without body armour, and now people were left to die after a major disaster that the government had days or warning about.

The world is stunned and so is America. The fact that some in the world are smiling should not distract us from the task at hand. We need to fix this mistake prone administration and the Congress that supports it. I, like the rest of the world, want the old U.S.A back again. The time for America to take America back is November 2006.

"Those who condem the US as being arrogant do not really understand what the US is really about and are part of the Problem.
If you are rich and honestly help people, does this mean your bad because you are rich. Does it mean you don not have true intentions to do your best. If you are poor, does this mean you are better than your rich neighbor? Don't be hippocrits people!!!"

FYI, arrogance is refusing to acknowledge that there is a problem. The problem is not rich people, the problem is greediness and selfishness, those honchos who live by their "bottom line/just profits and only profits" mantra, I don't have any problem with any decent, hard working, honest person, whether is rich, middle class or poor, the problem, again, is the pervasiveness of greed, when we value our peers in terms of how much they have in the bank, what it their racial background is (yes!, this is true, don't tell me otherwise), when basic services are for pure profit and convenience of shareholders rather than thinking ahead and build a more comprehensive system that can cover a great percentage of uninsured americans, just to give you an example. Why this government persists in alienating our current allies and blundering any effort to make new ones?, yes, a bunch of countries hate us, it doesn't matter if the reasons are valid or not but by saying we don't give squat about the world we are not necessarily making such problem go away. Our country has the potential and the resources to resurface as the great nation it was few years ago, don't let it slip.

Jeff Morley writes in his column "...Jorge Ramos Ávalos, observes (in Spanish) that since the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 Americans have believed that they can do anything they put their minds to. "With Katrina," he concludes, "came the day when America couldn't."

Ávalos is assuming that federal government officials put their minds to the task. I seriously think that is a mistaken assumption.

On 9/11, much of the world was very much sympathetic, and would gladly have helped. But there wasn't much they could do. It should be noted, however that some countries did send help, but it was turned down. Many of these countries were later bullied and called names because they didn't support the Iraq adventure. Even then, for Katrina, most were still making help available. And you know what : much has again been turned down, for a variety of bureaucratic reasons. It's not about laughing at the tragedy. It's just that if you're smarter and better than anybody else, then, why don't you take care of yourself more efficiently that what we've seen during the first week ? And why would the rest of the world bother ?

One of the things that a lot of people are missing is that the warnings were there to be listened to and the governor of Louisiana and the mayor of New Orleans chose not to evacuate. Also, the government, as in the federal government, cannot do anything to take matters into their own hands until asked to do so by the governing body of the STATE government because we live in a union of states. Otherwise, it would be an act of unconstitutionality.

Has anyone realized that this is a pathetically laughable tragedy that could have been scaled down with just a few precautionary measures taken? There were warnings given and ignored. There were measures taken and not heeded.

We as citizens elect and chose who leads us. We need to use some introspection and ask ourselves why are we choosing inept leaders who make choices that are not representing what is best for us. Are we looking for the leader who looks best? Speaks better? Says everything right but then actually does nothing?

We all want to blame someone else. Let's try for a moment to stop pointing fingers at the rest of the world, at the leadership and examine ourselves. What's happening to us?

We are our own worst enemies. We are the uneducated, unmotivated masses who are seeking the next mind-numbing leader to assuage all our guilt and all our fears.

We should stop worrying about what the rest of the world thinks of us. We need to seriously examine what we think of ourselves.

After this tragic disaster, it's very hard to look into the mirror as an American and know what we as a society can turn into without electricity, basic necessities and a good disaster evacuation plan.

>We are our own worst enemies. We are the uneducated, unmotivated masses who are seeking the next mind-numbing leader to assuage all our guilt and all our fears.<

Exactly right, Robin. Unfortunately, Americans don't want to believe their leaders are corrupt and incompetent because that would mean they'd actually have to *do* something about it.

Well obviously, those Caucasian (latest poll) who think this was not a Black White issue when it came to saving the surviving
V-I-C-T-I-M-S of Katrina - were survivors of Florida hurricane!

In a world that has been flattened by the world communications revolution and the global economy, its important to be a citizen of the world.What Americans as world citizens bring to the table is often an arrogance that belies the weakness at the core of the behomuth.Think:
Enormous trade deficit
Enormous budget deficit
Increasingly large education deficit (American schools are not very good folks, A surprising effect of 9/11 is that average student performance in Universities has decreased as you've kept out the brilliant foreigners that kept you competitive internationally...)
Lowest percentage of citizens knowing a second language, in the world.(Illegal Aliens don't count.)
Enormous moral deficit (start with WMD, Abu Gahraib, Gitmo, the environment and move back in recent history to Iran Contra, Chile, and on to VietNam )
And now you've elected a federal government, that most see as incompetent, but now can point to this incompetence with one symbol. See they are incapable of getting properly organized relief to a known and predicted disater in less than 72 hours. Perhaps, Katrina provides a glimpse in the mirror for Americans, or perhaps a very late warning.
Witnessing Katrina, most of the rest of the world senses the end of the empire.... Some gloat like the bozo in Britain. Most are simply preparing for the new world order....
The adjustment will be hard for Americans. (You'll know its here when the price of oil is quoted in Euros rather than American Dollars. That'll drive the value of the American dollar in the toilet. Well, down 40%. But it'll change everything. )

Can someone translate to me what Dee Dee said? Cuz I don't get it

The current administration has annoyed many people around the world by a combination of incompetance, and arrogance, combined with basic stupidity. Nothing worse then being both arrogant and stupid.

What...we are the object of derision from other countries?!?! Well, there's a surprise. Criticism from Bangladesh? Germany? Is it arrogance that causes me to yawn between chuckles? I don't think so. If an America-hating columnist goes abroad for perspective, what do you think he/she will find? Now, everyone back to work.

US should be more critic and pragmatic about it's administrations and leaders. IT seems also to the world, that the american population gets manipulated. next problem is the obsolet infrastructure and bad eductaion, ex: Darwin could become heritic and Adam and Eve are in again... look too electric power cuts in NY and LA now. US is anyway not the power it pretends to be. that is more and more a spotty illusion.

9/11 and Katarina passed by, but US people will continue to sleep ?, refusing to think and take the pragmatic actions...Does nobody see there the danger ? Get Clinton back , otherwise, Bush will soon drop nuclear bombs on Iran.... I let you guess the consequences...something like the mess US soldiers live right now in Irak....Good morning USA, wake up!
a USA lover from Europe

I found Jefferson Morley's "The Not So Superpower" piece quite tendentious. Apparently he pieces together negative criticisms from around the globe (Europe, Asia, Latin America) to show that the "rest of the world" does not think much of the United States. I think this is a seriously mistaken approach. The guy from Bangladesh (whom Morley quotes with amusement) was writing a letter to the Editor of "The New Nation." He was not a spokesperson for Bangladesh. Like so many contributors to blogs in the Washington Post he was expressing a view, extreme for sure, but a personal view all the same. Why quote that as though it represented the view of the entire country of Bangladesh?

As for extremism, the Post Op-Ed Columnist George F. Will doesn't fare much better either. In today's column "A Poverty of Thought" he spells out three rules for avoiding poverty: 1) graduate from high school; 2) don't have a baby till you are married; 3) don't marry while you are a teenager. Is the problem of poverty that simple? And this advice is meant principally for the African-Americans. Also, George Will launches a ferocious attack on the only African-American Senator of the US (with mixed racial background), Barack Obama (D-IL)for telling the truth about New Orleans, that poverty in America has a racial component.

There are two possible responses to world criticism (and internal criticism) on the aftermath of Katrina: 1) dismiss it galantly by saying, "they hate us because we are powerful, good people" and go back to business as usual. 2) recognize (and do something about) the fact that in spite of its military and economic might the United States is still a work-in-progress when it comes to providing a decent standard of living to ALL of its citizens (black, white, hispanic, etc.). But the problem is, as the lyric line goes : "Oh, when will they (we) ever learn?"

If you have any problems seeing what this country is going to result in, please read Ayn Rand's book, "Atlas Shrugged." I highly recommend it to anyone who thinks that we need to constantly yield to the theory that people do not have their own power within to help themselves. We all have power within us to overcome what is out there, without the government spoonfeeding us. Granted, disasters do happen. However, people do have the power to work together to overcome things that occur. When 9/11 happened, we saw it occur in New York. When this situation happened in New Orleans, there were some people who rose up as leaders and took charge. Unfortunately, those were not the leaders who had the most air time on the news channels.

Remember that the government cannot be solely responsible for everything that happens and all of our lives here in the United States. Otherwise, there is no reason for us to have a democratic or republic society. There would be no reason for choice or decision-making. We could all be automatons, standing in the bread lines, working for an authoritarian leadership. Is that what we really want or need?

I, for one, as an American, do not think so. I choose my own lead. I choose to try for more. I choose to have choices.

The rest of the world kicking the USA when it's down? Now there's a shocker. Anti-Americanism is nothing new:

>>This sentiment was expressed in 1768 when court philosopher to Frederick II, Cornelius de Pauw, a chief proponent of this thesis, described America as a bunch of "degenerate or monstrous" colonies and claimed, "the weakest European could crush them with ease". The thesis was extended into arguing that the natural environment meant that the United States could intrinsically never produce true culture. Paraphrasing Pauw, the Encyclopedist Abbé Raynal famously wrote, "America has not yet produced a good poet, an able mathematician, one man of genius in a single art or a single science." <<
- Wikipedia

240 years later we're still hearing the same tired arguments about the decline of an empire. While our critics have had plenty of fodder in recent years, the country by most economic measures is fairing better than our European cousins. Despite the naysayers, our University system is still the best in the world, and more countries send their students to the USA than any other nation. We still invest heavily in R&D. We're ready to lead on into the future.

Listening to these Europeans bemoan our flawed state brings to mind images of the 19th century Chinese arriving in the US expecting our streets to literally be paved with gold, only to find backbreaking labor awaiting. Sorry to burst your bubble Europe - we're a flawed state like any other. We never claimed to be perfect. The European papers like to harp on every American misstep, but rarely do American papers take such a close examination of other countries. Like superstars in the tabloids, everyone likes to read about America's misfortunes, even if only to distract them from their own problems at home.

While it is important to listen to what the rest of the world is saying, try not to take it so seriously. They claim to be worldly because their house is within a days drive of 6 different countries, but many people in the world learn about the US from Hollywood films, and sometimes state-run propaganda filled television. Their perception of us is as distorted as our perception of them.

I would encourage everyone to continue to give money to foreign causes - help out the tsunami victims in Indonesia, the famine victims in Africa. Fight for the rights of the oppressed; Muslim, Christian, or Jew. Black, white, or asian. Our country's strength lies in the great charity of our people and our ability to transcend these petty little disagreements that seem to mire those that have moral qualms about providing for us in our time of need.

Its being reported that the USA is in Vienna trying to convince allies that Iran is working toward nuclear weapons. they're showing satallite images and saying there is only one conclusion.

Now you tell me, do we have any capital after the blunder Bush made in Iraq with their conclusions. The world is shaking its head and waking up to the fact that no one is driving. They are one their own because the world's only superpower is incompetent.

They may be laughing at us about the U.S. government's handling of Katrina, but I think in reality they are worried, like a child finding themselves alone without a leader. They shouldn't. We Americans will put it right in 2006.

Sully, don't be so patronising. The world is not made up of children who want a daddy, any more than America is. In fact, the vast majority of people worldwide don't believe any country should be 'leader'. If they did they'd be signing up to the ridiculous ideas of the Project for the New American Century that animate this administration.
I sent money for the Asian Tsunami. I didn't for Katrina. Not because of schadenfreude, least of all towards the victims.
I had three reasons. One, the victims are undoubtedly going through a hell of a time, but none of them are in danger of starving to death. There are still dozens of places in the world facing far graver humanitarian crises, where my aid dollar will go a lot further, and will actually save lives rather than just alleviating discomfort.
Two, victims of disasters in poor countries suffer because their societies lack the resources to help them. But America doesn't lack the resources to help the Katrina victims. It's just that it doesn't believe in a social safety net. If the world's richest country won't provide a safety net for themselves, why should I pay for it?
Thirdly, the US government is always looking for ways to avoid spending money on its citizens, but loves nothing better than to blow trillions on killing foreigners. If I help them out of their obligations in the US Gulf, they'll pocket those savings and spend them on killing people in the Persian Gulf. I don't feel like sponsoring the Iraq War, thanks.

Okay, what people of all races have to realize is this. President Bush and former President Bush never liked blacks, immigrants and have been totally obsessed with Iraq and Bin laden and whoever else for a long, long, long time now. People in those areas have been living in poverty, paycheck to paycheck, etc. They have been living that way for years and are constantly ignored. Always, ignored. Football players and such have to give back to the community and that is all the help they get. Bush and FEMA and all the rest of the federal big wigs left those people there to DIE. Black, White, Spanish, Honduran etc. New Orleans, Mississippi, Gulf Coast were all hit terribly. The body count will be in the thousands, not around 500, which I read somewhere that the government changed it to. Those people had nothing and now . . . I don't even have the words to express what I am trying to say. People were saying racisim is dead. No it is not. keep your eyes open. It shall get worse.

Caroline:
My point is that the US, which used to be looked up to for leadership in many areas, is in decline under the Bush administration due to both its domestic and foreign policies including its unwillingness to work in a bipartisian way with other countries. I do believe other countries are worried about this. The US is a superpower in many ways, not just a military way and many countries rely on the US to lead in many areas. A few off the top of my head are environmental and agrucultural science and technologies. If the US continues its decline other countries that used to follow or work with the US in these and many many other areas will see their own decline in these areas.

Now, the point of my post was that Americans do not like what they saw these past two weeks and many were already upset with Bush and his administration for a multitude of reasons. A history professor once told my class that democracy means that people have the right to elect a bad leader, but they also have the right to correct it.

I think most Americans now realize a bad decision was made last year. I predict that Americans are so upset now, and that this will last especially when investigations reveal just how poorly the feds did their job, and in 2006 elections will deprive Bush of the republican majority. And I expect many challengers to sitting republicans will make that very point - A vote for me is a vote against the Bush administration. I can only hope...

We are not an island unto ourselves. We live in a time of global consciousness. We rely on the international community but we seem a little insulted when they comment openly about our dismal showing following Katrina. And why shouldn't they? We lag so far behind in so many ways when it comes to taking care of our own it's embarrassing and it's obvious to much of the civilized world.

Caroline, your comments are ignorant and borderline dangerous. I'm sick of the slow government response--at all levels--being used as proof for anything other than what it really is, specifically further proof that the bureaucracy is so large that it is ill-suited to immediately respond to crises. Frankly, the bigger surprise would have been the delivery of immediate aid.

Katrina was a storm whose magnitude exceeded anything this country has faced in quite some time. It was, and is, a horrible national tragedy. The scope of the problem would have exceeded our capability to respond even under the best circumstances.

Poverty has existed in this country forever. I am not excusing it, but Bush Jr is hardly responsible for it. While this Administration has not prioritized it as an issue, it is hardly to blame for the economic underdevelopment of the Gulf Coast that affects all Americans there.

It is nice to see that some in Britain and elsewhere refuse to donate to Katrina relief as a means to demonstrate the racial and social inequities in the US. While I agree they exist, in part fueled by ignorant conspiracy theories such as those espoused here, it is nice to see those withholding aid are willing to deepen the plight of the very people they claim to want to help. If I was living in a shelter, their "show of support" would ring hollow.

Let's face it. If this is as stark a black and white issue as the conspiracy theorists suggest, only whites will get taken into homes, fed, and given jobs, right?

Simple question: is the city of New Orleans duplicated anywhere in El Salvador or Bangladesh? No, its not. What happened to NO, happened because it is a bowl, and because its a city it cannot be turned upside down, emptied, and dried. No nation could have dealt with the flood waters around NO. What should have occurred? Simple answer--evacuate. But NO politicans accustomed as they are to the high life with no responsiblity were obviously deficient in getting that news out, much less help anyone get out. Faced with disaster they dumped all the blame on Bush, who by now is responsible for every malady that strikes humankind. If El Salvador built a New Orleans and it was nailed by a Katrina, you can bet that city would never be re-built, unless we did for them.

A major reason most of the world is pissed off at the U.S. is because of American foreign policy, e.g., the U.S. intervention in Iraq. I could go on about this gross stupidity that continues today and likely will continue until we have someone with brass balls ascend the U.S. presidency who will put a stop to it. Three more years...

If anyone here thinks that what we're doing in Iraq - and the Administration's thumbing its nose at the U.N. (how much do we owe in dues??) and refusing to be signatory to most environmental conventions - think again. This is the height of arrogance.

What is going on in this country is shameful - internally and externally.

Regarding any racial inequity or racism in the U.S., however, no European country has the right to "cast a stone" because they are have racism problems themselves. It ain't one big happy family over there. So let the hypocrites demonstrate 'til they drop dead. Pretty dumb reason for not helping the victims of Katrina who they believe the U.S. is giving short-shrift. What a bunch of dopes...

I find it interesting that the article claims it's only been since the fall of the Berlin Wall that Americans believe they can do anything if they set they're mind to it. That's what makes America, well, America. If I ask a 26 year old Scottish friend if he can become a doctor, they answer is no, because that's not what I've studied. If I ask a 26 year old American, the answer is as likely to be sure, if that's what I wanted to do.

Katrina didn't become the day we couldn't do what we set our minds to. What it did, was set our minds with what we should do, and that is rebuild and make the situation better.

I dont give a damn if they are polka-dots,zebralikes,stripes,brown,black or white.....the victims of Katrina disaster are all humans! they the survivors need all the help, i come from a small developing country in South East Asia, how i wish if i could reach their hands, i feel pity for the loss of lives and the sorrow of the victims'families, friends and their loved ones! May God bless the world!

The above comment says it all. Americans are so obsessed with race and skin colour, they have forgotten what is common humanity. They decimated millions of innocent people in Japan, Viet Nam and Iraq, without loosing an sleep. We feel no envy of America only pity.

For political purposes they will contribute to other nations in their tsunami's,that too with strings and with stringent conditions attached to the aid packages. Successive US governments have consistently lied to the American people about their treatment of the rest of the world.

"They decimated millions of innocent people in Japan, Viet Nam and Iraq, without loosing an sleep"

You are absolutely right. What indifferent animals we are. Who the hell were we to stand up to Hiter & Tojo? Who the hell were we to attempt to stop the spread of communism in Southeast Asia? And lastly, we must be complete arrogant monsters to have had the nerve to take down Saddam's peace-loving, egalitarian regime with its spotless record. When I think of how wonderful this world would be if only Americans didn't exist, it brings a tear to my eye. Sad, very sad.

I was talking about innocent men, women and children who were carpet bombed out of existence and who had nothing to do with the policies of their respective countries' rulers.Your self delusion is truly phenomenal, if you think the killing of civilians is your God given right.

"I was talking about innocent men, women and children who were carpet bombed out of existence and who had nothing to do with the policies of their respective countries' rulers.Your self delusion is truly phenomenal, if you think the killing of civilians is your God given right."

So we should just lay down for their tyrants right? The swastika should fly from the White House, and the rising sun from the Golden Gate bridge, with your logic, because then at least we wouldn't have killed any innocent civilians. If this war is ever brought to your doorstep, perhaps you can reason with our enemies, good luck.

PTM, The US "stood up" to Hitler and "Tojo" only when it's own interests were threatened - otherwise you wre content to let Europe and Asia burn. Ditto Southeast Asia. Saddam was helped into power by .. guess who ? Yes Indeedy...! the US !!

So please get off your high horse and don't be so defensive. Understand that the differences people have with the US is with it's administration, not with it's people.

Your administration firmly believes that trying to stomp on people just because you can, is the appropriate way to show your muscle around the block. Otherwise, how come lately, the US only attacks countries obviously unable to defend themeslves ? Makes you feel good, I bet ! You with all your cruise missiles and navy and arguably the best air-force in the world can't stand up to a bunch of raggedy-headed peasants with only rifles, explosives and grenades.

You talk big fo' sure.

Oh, sure I should be happy the US saved us by killing some 3 million Vietnamese. Wow, and look what happened when the US withdrew from South Viet Nam, no country joined them to become communist. In short, nothing happened, no dominoes, no nothing. Really, all the US did was expend munitions in the jungles, killing millions for no purpose, except fill the coffers of US arms dealers. McNamara, called it a mistake.

Oh please where to begin. "only when it's own interests were threatened - otherwise you wre content to let Europe and Asia burn." This shows a true lack of historical knowledge. Ever here about isolationism? How about American Nazi sympathizers? Lindberg was one. JFK's dad another. Not exactly JoeBlows are they? The aid given to Saddam was largely used against Iran, why? might the historically challenged ask, gee maybe it had something to do with that hostage incident? Iran paid a harsh price for that transgression didn't they? "Your administration firmly believes that trying to stomp on people just because you can." Come on does even the most partisan of you believe we engage in war for fun? That's ludicrous. Clinton himself believed Iraq had WMD in 1998, I guess those fighter runs during Monica Gate were ok with you though. And here is something you can't hide from: 3 terrorist training centers were discovered in Iraq, so much for the non-Al Queda/Saddam link huh? I don't know what you mean by 'you talk big fo' sure', but I will say this: don't try to write American slang, it just makes you look foolish.

Wow Julke, you really got me there huh? Where were you in 1974? Were you even alive? "no country joined them to become communist," are you sure you want to go on record with that? What about Laos? I see you decided to hang your argument on Viet Nam, and that is wise, because it is the weakest link. But you cannot absolve yourself of your nation's acts, as a citizen you gain whatever benefits your native nation has, and suffer whatever detriments it has, and if you don't like it, you can leave, unless of course you were in Viet Nam in '74 and happened to miss the last 'copter out of Saigon.

Get off it PTM, you know what I am talking about. All you're trying to do is justify and cover-up the pathetic foreign policy blunders of the US. Don't get me wrong I love Americans, the people that is, as for your government policies, they suck big time.

So now, instead of hanging your arguments on Viet Nam, you hang them on 'get off it PTM, you know what I'm talking about & 'as for your government policies, they suck big time,' dude that's weak. I guess we are done.

Peace. (Even if you think I don't mean it)

PTM

One last word before you go. YOU ARE PATHETIC.

For all the bluster and macho swaggering of your happless leaders (Bush, Rumsfeld et al), Katrina has allowed those of us who live in the rest of the world to see your country as it really is: weak, vulnerable, backward, dysfunctional and incompetently governed. 'Shining beacon on a hill'? Give me a break. The American emperor has no clothes. With a fundamentalist simpleton like Bush running the show, we foreigners can now look elsewhere -- Germany, France, Spain, Japan -- for true global leadership.

PTM

"Do we engage in war for fun" - of course not. You engage in war for profit, pure and simple and that too, against the aforementioned poorly-armed nations.

I don't see any attacks against N.Korea, Iran etc., cos' the first wave of your attacks will suffer pretty badly - even though subsequent ones will probably be OK.

How many American Nazi sympathizers were there ? You make it sound as if the US was teetering on the edge of becoming a facist state. Shows how much paranoia is in your head - Lindberg, JFK's dad.. 2 people among millions. Anyway, that didn't stop JFK becoming President, did it ?

Aid given to Saddam was so that you could get your back on the Mullahs who kicked out your lame Shah.

Fighter runs for WMD during Monicagate ?? Don't be ridiculous.. what do you think they were except to divert the minds of the Simpletons like you from the stained dress - and it worked beatifully. most of you swallowed it hook, line and sinker. And you apparently, still haven't figured it out.

Three terrorist training centres in Iraq ? You obviously believe there are some terrorist schools setup in some other countries where they can go for training and return to Iraq. Don't be obtuse.. OF COURSE you are going to find training camps in Iraq.

You are so smart, I made an email for you! Its called erika22192@yahoo.com, write if you have the balls! I will be waiting, so will many others buta!! But since you are so smart, you will kick all our asses correcto concha? Va pue sonsito!

Te esparamos, wevon de mierda. Te esparamos con sonrisas, wevon de mierda/.

PTM,

Ha! ha ! This is the only response you can come up with ?????

That's right, puta! You have just proved my point about your administration and neo-con's like yourself.

When you are unable to present a valid/coherent argument, resort to violence and abuse.

You may continue to wait on Yahoo. I certainly have no intention of visiting you there - but thanks for the invitation anyway.

Why not continue this thread in full view of the Mod. and other contributors ? Or don't you have the stomache to "Stay The Course" ?