Iranian President Ahmadinejad's comments about Israel will be a watershed event in Osama bin Laden's war with crusaders. Iranian President is likely to unite ever-feuding Shiites and Sunnis against a common enemy, Israel and its sponsors US/EU. Silence of leaders of other Islamic countries is deafening. But the comments are going to be a catalyst in forcing the Iranian nuclear issue to be referred to UNSC. This time French and Germans will be with US but Russians and Chinese will publicly oppose US/EU demand to sanction Iran. Will this confrontation ultimately lead to US/EU military attack on Iran? Will this be a religious war or will it be a superpower war with US/EU on Israel's side and Russia/China on Iran's side? Ahmadinejad's comments has a potential to transfer Osma's war against crusaders into a WWIII.

What I don't understand is the logic (or lack of it) behind this Arab thinking. How can they deny the fact that Jerusalem was originally created and inhabited by Jews. Where does this sense of outrage come from that Jews want to exist in a place that was originally their homeland before it was settled/taken over by Christians and then Muslims? If the Muslims were more willing to compromise back when the modern Jewish state was created, the Palestinians would have already had their own state and Jerusalem would have been shared politically, but instead all the Arab nations decided to attack the newly formed Israeli state. This uncompromising attitude by the Muslims continues to this day with the likes of Terrorists and crazies like this current Iranian President. It puts them on the same moral level as Hitler and Stalin. As neither Jew nor Muslim I used to be more impartial about this whole conflict but the more I learn and hear the more I find myself siding with the Jewish position based on reason and fairness.

These comments and the deafening silence that greeted them in the Arab/Muslim world, do serve the laudable function of helping people realize the hatred against Jews that exists in the Arab/Muslim world.

The most disturbing prospect coming from this incident is that the majority of ruling arab regimes are in such precarious positions that even taking a stand (pro or con) on these issues is not possible. Ruling elites in the arab world have no ability to manouver. Frustrations are running high in this region, and the more tense the atmosphere the more paralytic the leadership becomes. This is a receipe for future disaster, hopefully not on the scale of WWIII.

geoff - very poignant. The end is near for those elites, and I'd rather be the truck than the deer stuck in the headlights, know what I mean ?

The other good thing about this is that it lets the Deutschers showcase their post-war moral authority on owning up to their past. Recently they've been choking on their own political correctness and "preening anti-Americanism." It's always good for America when somebody other than us brings up the events of the past century. It's a good wake up call all around. It is incumbant on the Germans to take the lead here, and things are looking good so far.

The French can and should similarly cement the Syrian problem. The Americans should be allowed to sit back and enjoy this magnificent election day.

Ahmadinejad is a brave leader. I 100% support him and his comments - he is really saying it like it is, and finally someone is! It's time for the Israelis to go back to their European homes and leave the Arabs and Muslims alone.

While Arab leaders may not be condemning the Iranian president's remarks, I would also be curious to know whether the Arab media is at least reporting the fact that the leaders of other nations have criticized him. Or, in other words, are Arab media giving their readers the impression that no one is condemning Iran's president?

Ahmadinejad's comments show how Muslims, and especially Arabs, keep shooting themselves in the foot with regard to Israel. There is a glimmer of validity to some of his arguments. It is not hard to see why most Palestinian Arabs didn't want a "Jewish state" to be created. Most of the Jews in 1948 were not native to Palestine, they were immigrants. From the point of view of Arabs, they did not have a right to be in Palestine because they were allowed to enter by the British imperial rulers(although some Jews came illegally on their own) not by the Arabs themselves.
The Arabs also felt violated because the partition of Palestine, and creation of Israel, took place without their consent even though Arabs were a majority of the population of Palestine. It is easy to understand these feelings.

Israel's supporters say that the Arabs are responsible for the now decades-long conflict because they rejected partition. But this assumes the Arabs had a moral responsibility to accept it. In my opinion, and in the view of most Arabs, they did not. From the Arab perspective, the Israelis are responsible for the conflict because they established a Jewish state without the consent of the majority Arab population, which would have been necessary for a just resolution of the problem to be taken place.

Is this so difficult to understand? People don't just blithely compromise on the nature and boundaries of their country (yes, Palestine was not a "country," but it was the homeland of a majority Arab population). If American Indians wanted part of the U.S.--even a tiny part--as a separate nation, most Americans would probably reject the idea.

These are valid arguments. Where Ahmadinejad and others like him totally lose crediblity is when they spout nonsense like "the Holocaust is a myth" The Holocaust is as much a fact as is the former existence of slavery in the United States. One can argue that the Holocaust didn't justify the creation of Israel, but one cannot dispute that the Holocaust happened and that millions--not hundreds or thousands of Jews--were murdered simply because they were Jewish. When someone says the Holocaust never happened, it is almost impossible to take anything else they have to say seriously.

The Ahmadinejads' of the world should wake up. If they would present the core Arab and Muslim complaints against Israel, they would find more sympathy. Instead, by spewing nonsense like Holocaust denial, they look absolutely foolish.

Arab media are giving their readers what they want to hear. Arab hatred has been fuelled by their governments' propaganda machines in order to distract their people from the real reasons for their destitution, crumbling economies, etc. Even more frightening is the fact that these regimes have fostered in the Arab people an inability to analyze and/or take responsibility for their own actions (but this is a different story altogether).

Ahmadinejad is a fool and it won't take the Iranian apparatchiks long before they remove him for his stupidity and lack of foresight.

Suresh Seth: You are gravely mistaken if you think the events transpiring in Iran will lead to anything resembling WWIII. China's best interests lie with the United States and they know it. When Walmart alone is China's 4th largest trading partner in the world, you can bet they're not going to rock that boat. Russia might sell weapons to Iran, but only to make money. They have no strategic reason nor desire to get themselves involved with Iran; there is just no benefit to such action.

Now, if the Iranian regime remains recalcitrant and unwilling to deal, I see one of the following happening: 1)The US launches airstrikes against Iran's Nuclear and/or suspected nuclear sites, certain military targets and possibly against their oil infrastructure. 2)If the US doesn't do it, the Isrealis eventually will. 3)The US gets European backing and becomes a NATO operation. 4)The situation gets so out of control that a broad coalition is formed that launches a ground offensive against Iran (highly unlikely in my opinion). What I really think will happen is that Iran will back down. There is absolutely nothing productive in continuing on this course. Much of what they're doing is posturing, thinking that by being belligerent they can wring concessions out of the other side. It's stupid and unproductive, and as I said, will either blow up in their faces or they'll get rid of Ahmadinejad.

Instead of trying to stop him expressing his suspicisions about the world war 2, why don't the academics from say Oxford or Stanford invite him and show him the historical evidence they possess ? Iran has called for an independent investigation into the Holocaust. This is not an unreasonable request. I believe such an inquiry has already taken place.

Freedom of expression should be respect even when people like Iranian President utters crazy things. WE can't pick and choose what to allow people to say what to censor. This would be dangerous.

I'm sure the Arab leaders would wish Ahmadinejad would just keep his mouth shut! (BTW, a quick correction to some of the Western posters: Ahmadinejad is not an Arab, and Iran has only a very small Arab population.)

I'm sure they (Arab leaders) mostly privately reflect his views -- Anti-Semitism has a very, very long history in that part of the world, famous for its long memory of grievances.

Despite what Cumhuriyet may say, there will be no imminent miltary action against Iran by the U.S. Diplomatic and Economic sanctions, yes, war, no. The US has no troops to send to war -- they are all in Iraq.

John UK: If some whacko really wants to deny the Holocaust that's fine with me.

But, I think Ahmadinejad is doing this for several possible reasons. Maybe he really believes the garbage that he's spewing, in which case he is a very poor choice to run a country. I think his real reason is to try and gain a better bargaining position with regards to Iran's nuclear program and let "The West" know his position and how he's going to be tough, not back down, etc. Attacking Isreal is a tacit attack against the US as well (at least in their minds). Ahmadinejad's actions are no different from the same comments North Korea makes against the US.

My apologies for linking Arabs with Persians.

Just for clarification--I realized that Iran and Ahmadinejad are not Arab. I said "especially Arabs" because I hear that type of rhetoric mostly from Arabs.

Of course the worst thing about Ahmadinejad's comments are that they are half true. Obviously the holocaust wasn't a myth, but then the rest of his logic holds together well enough and coincidentally reflects exactly what the Saudi leadership said at the time: Israel should be a nice little slice of Bavaria/Linz and honest Westerners can see the reasoning behind that if not agree with it entirely. Honestly, how many Swiss Francs are still sitting in Swiss banks with 70 year-old Jewish blood on them and 70 years of interest ? The question is, what is the EU-3 prepared to do about it ? My guess is that, rather than face the pain of the past or of growing a backbone, they will wait for the US to act once again. But even if the EU-3 help us solve the Iranian problem, there's still the revolution yet to come in the Arab lands. Notice geoff's point that at least Ahmadinejad has the room to be crazy - the Arab rulers are damned either way.

I'm surprised no one has noticed the similarity between Ahmadinejad and President Bush. Both are idiots who say things they wish were true, not factually true. I read Ahmadinejad's speech and no where does he give any evidence to counter the overwhelming evidence from the Germans themselves not to mention the Russians, the Poles, the French, the Norweigens, the Swiss, etc... .

But, like Bush, he's playing to the intellectually challenged. Those who have a deep hatred and do not need facts or even reality to tell them what is true. Bush implied a connection between 9/11 and Iraq. Ahmadinejad implies middle east poverty with Israel.

Here in America we now realize what an idiot our president is and polls show many regret their votes. I wonder if the same can be said for the Iranians. Maybe it will just take more time as it did here. I have great faith in the humanity of the Iranians. I believe they will, maybe slowly but eventually, be as embarassed by Ahmadinejad as we are of Bush.

Just to frame the press freedoms in Iran, here is Article 24 of the Iranian constitution outlining press freedoms:

"Article 24
Publications and the press have freedom of expression except when it is detrimental to the fundamental principles of Islam or the rights of the public. The details of this exception will be specified by law."

To compare, here is the US Constitution's wording on freedom of the press:

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Notice the US Constitution has no "except" in it nor any reference to future laws modifying this basic human right.

I really dislike this current Bush administration but I really love this country. Thank God Bush has a limited term but the Constitution does not. Too bad the Iranian government can do what it likes, under law, with Article 24 and the Iranian freedom of the press.

This subject should get the juices flowing, but a little controversy is good for a newspaper's circulation.
Well, I wish that the Iranian leader had been quiet on these subjects for the same reasons I wished Bush had kept his mouth shut about the "Axis of Evil". Heated language maybe fine for newspaper's circulation or a political campaigns, but, internationally, it does not solve problems, but it creates them.
While I am afraid a lot more blood will be shed before the Israeli/Palestinian conflict will be resolved, BOTH parties will have to agree on any peace treaty. As with the reestablishment of a stable Iraq, it will require that the parties involved to live in peace side by side. Niether Iran or the United States can mandate a solution for any other country.
As for the Israelis and the Arabs, they both consider themselves children of Abraham. While Mohammed is the main Prophet in Islam, Jesus and the Hebrew Prophets are also venerated as people of the books.
In deed, before the advent of the current state of Israel, Jews were safer in Islamic countries than they were in
Europe. At least, they were as safe as the general population.
The al-Aqsa Mosque celebrates Mohammed's ascent to heaven to receive the precepts of Islam, and, in the process, he consulted and prayed with Jesus and the Jewish Prophets. Returning from heaven, He called their books good. Under Islam, his comments made room for Jews and Christians in the Middle East. Islam is as much invested in the Holy Land as Jews and Christians. However, for Western Christians, it is more of a like religious tourism.

"In deed, before the advent of the current state of Israel, Jews were safer in Islamic countries than they were in
Europe."

Well yes, but you forget that prior to Israeli independence, Jews weren't safe in Europe at all. That's what a lot of people seem to forget here, that as much as people want to view Jews as "Europeans," the Europeans certainly did not see Jews as being European until after the Holocaust, any more than Arabs see Jews in Israel as being Middle-Eastern.

Moving Israel to Europe is beyond stupid. You're going to move millions of people out of Israel, then you're going to move millions of people out of Bavaria, then you're going to move the Israelis in? Uh-huh. That'll really solve the problem of displaced people turning to violence.

And there was an enormous Arab state carved out of the Mandate of Palestine: It's called Jordan. The British took the Mandate and divided it between the Jewish and Arab populations. So yes, the majority of the people living in the Mandate were Arab, and they received the majority of the land. A small minority was Jewish, so they received a small parcel of the land. Then every single Arab state invaded Israel.

But of course Ahmadinejad, who isn't even Arab...isn't even Sunni Muslim...wants to make this his cause celebre. He'll learn the lesson that every other non-semite in this drama has learned: Stay away from the Arabian peninsula.

I suspect that -- if Ahmadinejad isn't simply an idiot, Iran's version of Chauncey Gardner -- the speech is designed in a move in an internal game. Ahmadinejad has already seen some of his power removed. But the wealthy Iranians who stand to benefit from the recent China and Indian oil deals, and their clerical allies, have to engage in some maneuvering to get what they want, have to couch it in the Revolution's rhetoric. This is the direction U.S. policy should want them to move in, integration into the global economic order, which allows levers to contain aggressive state policy. Ahmadinejad has called their bluff in the time honored fashion of the demagogue, and perhaps ruined any chance for stabilizing the Middle East by resolving the hostility between Israel and Iran -- timid attempts towards which were made by the last Iranian president -- by setting back that effort for years.

This is truly bad news for all sides, except Iran's hardliners.

Both sides are ignoring the others' existence.
Many of the founders of Israel and its supporters claimed they were establishing their country on empty land. Much easier to take land if you claim it is vacant or, to put it in terms the U.S. can understand, "underused."
So suddenly, in 1948, the Palestinians get a whole new country plopped down on them, without one word of say in the situation. Then, when after many years of having their grievances ignored, they not too surprisingly turn to violence. This brands them as the insigators, when it was the foundation of Israel without the current inhabitants consent that got the whole thing rolling.
In the background, of course, was the West's desire to salve its conscience over the Holocaust. One notices that American or European land was not chosen for this salve, as Mr. Ahmadinejad points out.
It's easy to give away someone else's land.
To Muslim eyes, Muslims were asked by the West to pay for a sin committed by the West. Not too hard to figure out how someone in that position might get a little paranoid, is it?
Of course, Iran is also blamed for the poor relations with the United States, when it was the U.S. overthrow of the legitimately elected Iranian government in 1953 that started that whole ball of wax.

An excellent course of events for the US is if we could encourage the Israelis to nuke Iran and the Indians to nuke Pakistan. This would improve the mid-east situation tremendously. After that, the islamisc/facist world should be on notice that there will never be two bricks remaining mortared together in any islamist country that tries to get the bomb.

"It's easy to give away someone else's land."

There is a big wall in downtown Jerusalem. You really can't miss it. Perhaps you've heard of it?

Who do you think built it?

"In the background, of course, was the West's desire to salve its conscience over the Holocaust. One notices that American or European land was not chosen for this salve, as Mr. Ahmadinejad points out."

Breif History lesson. The middle east was not choosen by the western powers for the jews.

After WW2 the majority of the jews went two places. The US and Isreal, the Promised Land. (This is also the reason that the US is often considered jewish by anti-semites.)

According to my nieghbor the reason he came to the US is that it was american troops that captured the concentration camp he was in. He wanted to live near the men who did that (he actually moved next door to one of the soldiers) so that he would never have to fear it happening again. Other jews came because it wasn't europe.

The rest went to Isreal because it was the land supposidly promised to them by god in the time of mosus.

Now this would have been generally cool except that the holocost had been tramatizing for alot of them. For the hardline jews they wanted something they had never had before, a jewish state. If they controled the state then the state couldn't oppres them or try to kill them all. Unfortunatly to do that they kicked out a lot of innocent people and started this whole mess.

Based on this irrational comments by a head of a country, that country should be isolated politically and economically from the world politics. With regard to future meeting with EU gorup of 3, this meeting should be cancelled and Iran should be referred to UN for economic and political sanctions.
This so called president with tremendous lack of insensitivity for those human beings who paid such a heavy price, does not deserve to be cajoled but thrown out of the civilized society. He deserves conselling by a group of psychiatrists.

c2tbf: The Americans should be allowed to sit back and enjoy this magnificent election day.

Are you joking?

You cannot be serious.

If you are, that is really amazing and confusing.

Why would the Americans sit back and enjoy the *fact* that three extremely Pro-Iranian groups are dominating the election?

Why would the Americans sit back and enjoy the *fact* that three pro-Iranian men (Ibrahim al-Jaafari, Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, Moqtada al-Sadr) have vastly been empowered

This is what we get from Bush's "axis of evil" idiocy. Spew venom against a proud nation like Iran, as Bush did, and its people will elect someone even more hostile to you. Another cock-up of spectacular proportions by George W. Bush.

Re: Denial of the Jewish genocide: denial of historic events is part and parcel of political manipulation - whether in Iran, the US, Israel, etc. Israel's lie for legitimacy is its denial that Palestine was populated in 1948 (The "A land without people, a people without land" propaganda). The US implicitly denies - by indifference, refusal to make reparations,and glorification of the neo-American settlers (the descendants of European settlers are "neo-Americans" - the true Americans are the Indians) - for its genocide of nearly 15 million Americans over a span of 200+ years. So, Iran - whose national legitimacy the US denies by its "Axis of Evil" cry - reciprocates with its own a-factual denial. So what?

It's all just one or the other's manipulative rhetoric.

Iran, however, is not using its denial to justify an active Jewish genocide. In contrast is the very active in-progress 38 year genocide of the Palestinians by Israel and the US, for territorial conquest.

Re: "deafening silence" - in the US try to objectively discuss Israel's occupation and de facto annexation of Palestine and its destruction of Palestinian society and economy in any public forum (from Congress on upwards) - and you are met with deafening silence, if not an outbreak of issue-avoiding wailing that "Israel is the only democracy in the Near East" (wrong), shouts of anti-semitism or maybe even a chorus of Hatikvah led by Tom Lantos!

Conclusion: the pot is calling the kettle black. What magician out there knows who's the pot and whose the kettle?

The long and the short of it are that Israel and the US, for decades, have sought by means fair but mostly foul to prevent the Iranian people from realizing their natural stature as an independent-minded regional power in the mid-East.

Well, neither the Iranians nor the Palestinians are the Cherokee.... If Israel attacks Iran, you can be sure the price will be counted in even more American military deaths that those already sacrificed in Iraq, and billions more of US budget dollars diverted to Zionist genocidal programs in the West Bank and away from health programs, Medicare and other vital domestic needs.

In 1940, more than a million Jews lived in lands that are now called Muslims States (mainly Arab countries and Iran). Most of these communities had been there for hundreds of years and arrived well before the Arabs invaded (e.g. North Africa). Fleeing persecution and second-class status (I suggest you read about the status of dhimmis in arab states...), a lot of these Jews went to Israel. More than 50% of the Jews in Israel were either born in Muslims states or are descendants of people born there. By the way, and ironically, the president of Israel was born in Iran... Where does Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad want to send them?

It's time for the moderate muslims to raise their voices and denounce publicly the fanaticism, the hatred, and the discrimination which is prevalent in their societies. Extremists like Ahmadinejad are hijacking their religion, and if these moderate don't act, they will bear the responsibility of the rise of the Islamo-Fascim...

No one points out that well before 1948, even in the beggining of the 20th century, the 'Palestinian' population was involved in pogroms against the jews that lived in Palestine. At that point, you could find Israelis living in Palestine for hundreds of years, just as you could find arabs that were established there for a century or two. (Many of these arabs were Jordanians, or other nationalities, foreigners just as some jews might have been). In response to Ahmadinejad's comments about Europe's role in the Holocaust and his implications that the Arab countries were all innocent, check out Al-Husayni's support role for Adolf Hitler- he supplied Palestinians to go and fight with Hitler's men. That would make Israel the perfect place for Israelis to settle, according to Ahmadinejad's logic!

Hamas makes significant election gains

Disarray within fatah ranks leaves field open for parliamentary polls

Hamas extended big local election gains from the fractured ruling Fatah party Friday, buoying the group ahead of a Palestinian parliamentary election next month. Israel said that if Hamas achieved political dominance it would spell an end to all hopes for peace talks.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=20835

Here we go again. Are the assinine comments of Iran's president and the silence of the Arab media a surprise to any clear thinking person? I would hope not, but reading some of the posts here proves the point once again...the chances for peace in the Middle East are slim while one side of the peace equation lives in the fantasy land of the late Middle Ages and would prefer to return to it. There is no hope for compromise given the propensity of Arabs and other assorted Islamics to blame their failures on everything but their own inability to throw off the shackles of despotic rule. Iraq is a jumping off point for something that has been long needed in the Middle East...democracy and freedom. Give it time. In ten years, all of you Bush/U.S. haters won't be singing the same tune on the Middle East - progress is being made and the results will be positive -- for everyone. But worry not...there will be some other issue where you will all again have the chance to whine in unison. Maybe Kyoto, Cheney, J&J's stranglehold on the dental floss market, Yo Yo Ma goes electric...who knows...there's always something to complain about.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad made a contorted statement in which he was attempting an analogy. It was not as clear cut a denial of the Holocaust as i had imagined by the Western Press accounts. He actually made a good point about why Europeans who were responsible for the Holocaust did not give the Jews a homeland. I think the best thing for the United States to do is officially and openly ask this leader of Iran if he does deny that the holocaust happened. Clarification is a more important than the mileage our politicians are getting by condeming Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. He came to power in an election probably influenced by the radical move by the U.S. invading Iraq. Our countries penchant for military actions create more problems than they solve.