By "Hamas's charter calls for the establishment of an Islamic state in the areas now encompassed by Israel," did you mean "Hamas's charter calls for the Destruction Of Israel?" I think that sugar coating their call for the destruction of a state, and ignoring the fact that Hamas is a Terrorist group, misleads your readers. Maybe
the United States should fund Al-Qaeda? Maybe Ireland should fund the IRA?

If indeed the Palestinian people voted Hamas into power, they are to deal with the international resistance that comes with such a vote. If they support an organization that murders innocents and calls for the destruction of their neighboring state, then they must embrace that militancy and all that comes with it and consider themselves, in effect, deputized. They cannot vote their miitancy at the polls and then complain about the consequences. To knuckle under now is to ratify what is essentially a terrorist state, and to tell the people of Palestine their vote doesn't matter. In a democracy, it does. We are living with George W. Bush and his policies because a majority (this time) put him in power. The majority that put Hamas in power was much greater than that which put W. in the White House here. Let it be known I am neither pro-Israel nor pro-Palestinian, but a logical fallacy must be addressed. Or restated simply: Be careful what you wish for . . .

Fantastic if Hamas is starved out of its stance... but also fantastic if the PA finally learns to actually run a government. That is when a two-state solution will actually be implemented, whether it be by mutual agreement by two governments, or imposed by Israel, seeing as how the representatives of the Palestinian people has never yet over the decades accepted any two-state solution put forth in good faith by the Israeli government. When the Palestinians have their own independant state, any further attacks perpetrated against Israel will no longer be framable in a light of a "fight for freedom" but will rather be seen for what it is, and has been all along: a war against the Jewish State, and will be treated accordingly.

By actually starting to assign funds to different parts of the PA we (as in donor countries) are effectively taking over the Palestinian administration by controlling its budget allocation.

That may not necessarily be a bad thing, as long as Hamas continues to retain its terrorist aims and roots the donor countries can continue to show goodwill towards the Palestinian people despite their choice for violence and confrontation at the ballot box, and in the face of Arab unwillingness to get involved helping their Arab brothers out.

america asks for democracy in the middle east, palistine has a democratic election for the first time in the middle east and hammas takes the majority, and know the bush puppets will not view them as a real leader, just another joke in the fight over oil, a not to bush Jr, every dog has there day, look at sharron

Well, then I guess these 'innocent people' shouldn't have elected terrorists as the leaders. Seems like a non-brainer to me.

too funny they say the holocausts was performened against the jews(which is not very true)because if it was then why would these jews turn around and slaugther innocent palistinian children, and starve them to death, god bless Hammas, and may they deliever a strong blow to the isreali state and put them in the same state as sharron, my donations will going to Hammas and all my prayers. what gives one state the right to steal land from another, if Palistine has no right to be there then isreal should not be there either, but aslong as the jews are blowing the americans, or vise versa there will always be war there because Hammas will never give up

Hmmm. Interesting how the International press and others view the US as being 'obligated' to send aid, regardless of the recepient's government policies or actions. I am truly sorry for the suffering people in the Palestinian territories. Too bad the press and the quoted 'experts' don't point out that the people suffering are the very same people who elected a terrorist government that wants Israel destroyed.

"Hamas's charter calls for the Destruction Of Israel."

Exactly. Let's spell it out explicitly. What Hamas wants is complete and utter destruction. Specifically, they want to load absolutely everything within the borders of Israel into rockets and shoot it into the sun. Complete and utter destruction - nothing left at all.

Those liberal fools think that "destruction of Israel" means changing the official name of the country and maybe getting the government to renounce ethnic discrimination. Hah! What fools!

Hamas wants nothing less than to see every last molecule within the boundaries of Israel broken apart at the nuclear level.

If you want to bite the hand that feeds you, you should expect dinner to get cancelled.
I don't want a single one of my tax dollars rewarding the Palestinian peoples choice of a terrorist organization to represent their views.

And I don't want my tax dollars used to subsidize an apartheid regime which is actively seeking the destruction of an entire people.

I'ts time for peace in the Middle East. The United Nations Mandate for an Israeli and an Arab State, side by side in the 1940's was agreed to by Israel. It was the Arab countries that refused to accept the reality of two states, side-by-side, living in peace and who vowed to push the Jews into the Mediteranean Sea and sieze territory that wasn't theirs. The Arabs must now accept the reality that Israel is going to remain in the Middle East and come to the table to talk peace. It is the Arabs that have brought this current food and drug crisis upon themselves.

Saudi Arabia and all it's Arab allies could be sending massive aid to the area and have only sent a pittance, why have they not fed the people of Palestine? Israel continues to supply water and electricity to the area.

Sometimes the carrot is more effective than the stick. It is disturbing to see soldiers and buldozers razing abandoned Israeli settlements. A better solution, I believe, would be to turn these villages over to the U.N. for distribution to Palestinians whose homes are demolished by Israeli reprisals although they were not involved in terrorist activities.

It's rather sad to see how backward and ill informed the west is, in general and Americans in particular. Do they not know that Israel, has an end date? its even mentioned in the Jewish books. The people voted for Hamas for Palestinian government. They had agenda and policies, based on which they were voted-in. Now they must do what they promised. In the west it may be normal to break promises and trusts. Hamas will have no credibility in sight of man or God, if the break their promises. Short-sighted must end and real solutions must be found. Blocking and imposing sanctions and other means will show the world the hypocrisy and double standards of the Americans and others. Real people power is needed to end Israel and tyranny and colonial puppets. The word terrorist must not be used to describe everyone we oppose, it will be like crying wolf. Palestinian people must have the resolve to stand firm and the solution will be near.

"Sometimes the carrot is more effective than the stick."

Yep - and sometimes, when facing a man bent on violence and immune to reason, the stick is the only solution.

"For ordinary Palestinians, the U.S. policy has begun to pinch. Paychecks to most Palestinian civil servants stopped several months ago, notes the Gulf News. "

The idea of sanctions is to get Hamas to do what you want them to do. If Hamas won't do it on there own, perhaps they will when the people they govern feel a pinch. Why stop the sanctions just because they are having the affect you want them to? The US should stand by it's snactions until Hamas recognizes Israel and not sooner.

"Real people power is needed to end Israel and tyranny and colonial puppets."

"Adam Jones" has, perhaps inadvertantly, highlighted the real issue here. People everywhere should be given the right to democratically elect their leaders. But if they use that power to seek to destroy another people, they must be opposed. Insisting that the Palestinians must be given the right to vote does not - cannot - mean that we give up the right to oppose them when they seek to destroy Israel. It is absurd to suggest that we should, in essence, be required to cater their party while they seek to do so.

The following off-the-record comment from a State Dept. official speaks volumes:

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/10/world/middleeast/10diplo.html

A senior State Department official, speaking anonymously under briefing ground rules, observed that the American and European governments faced different political pressures. In effect, the official said, Europeans are alarmed about reports of a crisis in the West Bank and Gaza, but Americans are not that upset.

"..but the Americans are not that upset."

That last line encapsulates completely and perfectly why the U.S. is at the lowest point in recent memory regarding World opinion. Frankly, my dear, they don't give a damn. Expediency now is what rules the day, whether its empowering warlords to fight on their behalf, or amassing a huge database of domestic calls of U.S. citizens. There is no principle now that will not be violated, or paid lip service too. Any you think the gang that couldn't shoot straight is going to win over the Muslim world anytime soon? Think again.

Hamas agreed to change their stance towards Israel if they stop the land grab, and fall back to the pre-1967 borders. Now why is it so difficult for most Americans to realize that the United States government is in a choke hold by the Israely lobby. We are undermining our security and way of life by backing the brutal occupation of Palestine. This occupation goes against everything the USA use to stand for. It is no wonder our credibility around the world is so low. When will we wake up and do what is right? The USA can solve many of its security and terrorism issues by steping up and forcing Israel to stop the illegal land grabs and giving the Palestinians back their land.

The "Destruction of Israel" Hamas calls for is not unlike the original destruction of Palestine the Zioninsts called for pre-1948. To quote David Ben-Gurion "We must expel Palestinian Arabs and take their places...and if we have to use force, then we have force at our disposal." Furthermore, using some logic that an informed conservative seems to lack, one would realize that Hamas would not want to nuke the land of current Israel since Hamas WANTS THE LAND BACK! They want to repopulate the land with the original Arabs who still have deeds to that land. The destruction they call for is for an end to the Israeli regime, not the death of millions of people.

The current aarguments ignore the FACT that the USA declared Hamas a terrorist organization long before they 'won' and election. We also objected, as did the west in general, to the Israely attacks on Hamas. Another inconsistency and hypocrisy on our part. NOw the complaint is that the people that want a terrorist organization [that killed innocents and rewarded the families of those that did] are suffering. they are not innocent, nor are we, nnor is the west in general. The ignoring of Hamas and like organizatdions has led to 9/11, to the bombings in ENgland and Spain, and indonesia, ...
Why the outcry. Carter's statement is paarticularly egregous since he was president while the threat was growing, and he like all the administdrations before and since ignored it. As with the Nazis, do we hold accountable those that support murdering select groups? The Germans objected, and prevaile, in having the disabled removed from the list of groups to be exterminated. Were they accountable? Is Hamas accountable for the murder of innocents? Why is Israel condemned by many for reacting to the attacks?

Adam Jones - UK - Your post reads like a collage of one liners that you cut and pasted from other sources in hopes of making an argument. You didn't succeed as the whole post just rambles and is nonsensical. You best try again, in your own words.

What people tend to forget when discussing these issues, is that the problem did not start when Hammas was voted into power. The problems, caused by Israel and her lap dog Ameria, started long before Hamas was even a party.
What has happened in PALESTINE, is a direct result of the Israelis trying to exterminate a people, with the support of America (They didn't like it, why should the Palestinians?)
The Palestinians, in an effort to settle the issue with ballots not bullets, voted for a party they thought might make their lives better, not one that would make them worse.

Too bad they didn't know that there was no right answer. Anything they had done would have given the Israelis a chance to kill more of them, with American weapons, and destroy more houses with American Cat Bulldozers.

The Arabs in the middle east openly hate Israel. Why would they not lay down more than enough aid out of their limitless bank accounts to a country who's leaders hope the destroy every last woman and child in Israel?

Why should the US or Israel have to support a regime that hates them, burns their flags, and celebrates our deaths (*cough* 9/11 *cough*. I apologize to those of you out there that pretend that only the Palestinians are suffering. In the real world millions of people in far too many countries starve to death, cannot get clean water or medical supplies. Why do the Palestinians deserve the aid that others need just as much or more? Especially after electing terrorists into office.

The US has no reason to believe that their aid will be used to help the people. If even one Cent is used for arms and terrorism against any of the women and children of Israel, it is unacceptable and reprehensible.

For all of you bleeding heart, uninformed, pro-terrorism (excuse me, Palestinian) readers ask yourself one question. If the Palestians/Hamas never bombed or attacked Israel, would Israel attack them or just be happy that they can finally live in peace and eat bagels?

If I recall, Hitler was voted in to power too. And since when do the American tax payers have the obligation to fund other countries. I would give money to someone in need, but not if they were going to use it against me or my friends. And as far as I know, .

I have Arabs in my family. Arabs hate to be wrong - like anyone. So... they argue that freedom fighting is different from terrorism - and now they say terrorists AND freedom fighters are both in play...

I say "BS". Anyone who uses a gun vs dialogue is a terrorist in my view.

When the secular government of HAMAS goes head to head with the terrorists in HAMAS and REJECT them PUBLICLY there will be an obvious difference between a humanitarian government and the terrorist organization... which will be shooting in the streets at civillians.

Until then STARVE THEM OUT. Yes, the civillians are hurting - but HAMAS secularists have to gin up the spine to go to war with the terrorists amongst them.

Hamas and the PA might both be whining about the "humanitarian crisis" that they are facing, but it is NOT stopping them from spending huge amounts of money on arms.

According to debka.com on May 9:
"Abu Mazen controls the Arafat Fund, whose capital is estimated $ billion - certainly enough to cover the public sector payroll and ease humanitarian distress in the Palestinian territories. Instead, his Fatah released $25,000 to each of the 15 or 16 terrorist groups under its aegis, thereby following in the footsteps of the late Arafat, who used this secret nest-egg to finance his war campaign against Israel.

The total remitted by Abbas to these groups runs to around $9 million.

Hamas correspondingly distributed to each member of its armed Ezz e-Din al-Qassam force, a large food package to keep him and his family supplied for two weeks plus the sum of INS250."

And also from debka.com on May 8:
"Hamas executed the biggest arms transaction in its history - a $250,000 cash deal with Sinai arms smugglers.

The new items now restocking the Hamas arsenal include 1,000 Kalashnikov automatic submachine guns, 500 Italian-made Beretta pistols and a large supply of ammo."

So excuse me for not worrying too much about their humanitarian crisis: they've not only brought it on themselves, but they're perpetuating it themselves.

For the past several decades, and especially since the Six-Day War in 1967, the centrepiece of US Middle Eastern policy has been its relationship with Israel. The combination of unwavering support for Israel and the related effort to spread 'democracy' throughout the region has inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion and jeopardised not only US security but that of much of the rest of the world. This situation has no equal in American political history. Why has the US been willing to set aside its own security and that of many of its allies in order to advance the interests of another state? One might assume that the bond between the two countries was based on shared strategic interests or compelling moral imperatives, but neither explanation can account for the remarkable level of material and diplomatic support that the US provides.

Instead, the thrust of US policy in the region derives almost entirely from domestic politics, and especially the activities of the 'Israel Lobby'. Other special-interest groups have managed to skew foreign policy, but no lobby has managed to divert it as far from what the national interest would suggest, while simultaneously convincing Americans that US interests and those of the other country - in this case, Israel - are essentially identical.

Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing that given to any other state. It has been the largest annual recipient of direct economic and military assistance since 1976, and is the largest recipient in total since World War Two, to the tune of well over $140 billion (in 2004 dollars). Israel receives about $3 billion in direct assistance each year, roughly one-fifth of the foreign aid budget, and worth about $500 a year for every Israeli. This largesse is especially striking since Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to that of South Korea or Spain.

Why won't the Arab nations fund them?

Jamil - stop listening to your jihad tapes and go visit the ovens and gas chambers, the testimony of regular germans who had their families murdered in a factory of death, or at least the holocost museum in DC.

You look like an uneducated fool dude.

Yoni get your facts straight. The other Arab countries would send Palestinians money if not for the US governement threatening to shut down Arab banks if one cent is sent to Palestine. Also, to imply that Palestine/Hamas bombed Israel first is absolutely ridiculous. In order for Israel to be formed the Zionists had to bomb and kill Palestinians to take their homes from them. So maybe the question you should ask is if the Zionists (who are terrorists themselves - if you dont believe me ask the British people who died in their embassy pre-48) never bombed or attacked Palestine, would Palestine attack them or just be happy that they can live in peace and eat falafel?

Steve - I think many US citizens just don't care what the world thinks of the US. Instead, the counties of the world might want to start caring about what the US thinks of them.

I want the West to give more money so more palestinians can live and thrive and become human bombs. I don't want peace there, it's better to honor whatever god you serve by having 4000 more years of bloodshed.... (????)

A hard thing must be done. The Palestinians must all die or there will never be peace.

ABOUT MONEY

The reason that so few countries have given money to Hamas, comes right back to America. We have threatened ANY BANK in the world with limitless sanctions of all American money, federal and private, and also a freezing of all of their funds, if they transfer any money to Hamas. Since the borders are closed, all conrolled by Israel, how is any money going to get to them?
Do we have the moral right to do this? No. Will people resent it? Yes.
Is it our fault that children elderly and sick are dying? You Bet.
Does the rest of the world know? Oh, Yeah.
Do we look like hypocrites? No more than Usual.

Some aspects of Israeli democracy are at odds with core American values. Unlike the US, where people are supposed to enjoy equal rights irrespective of race, religion or ethnicity, Israel was explicitly founded as a Jewish state and citizenship is based on the principle of blood kinship. Given this, it is not surprising that its 1.3 million Arabs are treated as second-class citizens, or that a recent Israeli government commission found that Israel behaves in a 'neglectful and discriminatory' manner towards them. Its democratic status is also undermined by its refusal to grant the Palestinians a viable state of their own or full political rights.

Also,
Hitler wasn't elected, he was placed in power by then president Hindenberg, in response to huge Nazi demonstrations outside parliament.

Thom

If you hate america so much leave!

The only one of you who knows anything | May 11, 2006 12:34 PM

This writer seems like a zealot to me!

The Palestinians have their own state now.
For years I've heard the complaints about their land, their land.
Their land is headed by a terrorist govenment, it should not be funded by the United States.

They will live and learn that having a democratic form of government is the worst in the world! But it is much, much better than all of the rest!

I think that the situation is truly tragic for ordinary palestinians yet one must remember that these ordinary folks have voted for Hamas.
Alas, deeply rooted hatered for the state of Israel is the current agenda illustrated by Hamas government. So who should be blamed for this tragedy?
The answer is quite simple.
I suggest these folks better change their agenda or the situation will further deteriorate while Israel continues to grow and prosper. It is not too late for the palestinians to switch direction in order to achieve their national aspirations

Open your eyes America - Your right, we are suppling Israel with way to much military aid, especially when history has shown that the arabs are such poor fighters. Israel could fight the arabs with one hand held behind her back and still win.

Hahahaha! You really think that you are educated...dont make me fall on the floor laughing!! Israel was created with peaceful intentions and in fact those living in the area outnumbered the Jews. The jews decided to give all the people citizenship in the new government and many did. Only in Israel can both a Jew and an Arab gain citizenship. Try that in another arab country. A Palastenian can gain citizenship, even to this day, in Israel. They cant even get it in any other Arab nation. The palastenians are getting what they deserve by voting in a terrorist group. Dont send my tax dollars over there to let them blow up another person.

It's hard to justify the creation of Israel after WW2. it isn't like it was empty land. I can understand why the Palestinians are a tad miffed.

q: Is Israel going to go away by itself?
a: Unlikely, so deal with it.

q: Is Israel going to voluntarily move to some other place?
a: no.

q: Can the Muslims defeat Israel militarily?
a: Not without horrific cost to themselves. And maybe not even then.

q: Can the Palestinians have peace and prosperity with Israel next door?
a: Yes, once they stop murdering Israelis.

So it may suck, it may not be fair, but the Palestinians need to either
1) adapt and coexist with Israel, or
2) defeat Israel non-militarily

The Hamas way encourages and calls for armed struggle against Israel. This simply can't work. Therefore the Hamas way isn't the way to peace and prosperity for the Palestinians.

Palestinians should view the sanctions as a compliment. We accept their government as legitimate if sick. Instead of patronizing them a la Jimmy Carter, we treat them like adults who are responsible for their own actions.

A final reason to question Israel's strategic value is that it does not behave like a loyal ally. Israeli officials frequently ignore US requests and renege on promises (including pledges to stop building settlements and to refrain from 'targeted assassinations' of Palestinian leaders). Israel has provided sensitive military technology to potential rivals like China, in what the State Department inspector-general called 'a systematic and growing pattern of unauthorised transfers'. According to the General Accounting Office, Israel also 'conducts the most aggressive espionage operations against the US of any ally'. In addition to the case of Jonathan Pollard, who gave Israel large quantities of classified material in the early 1980s (which it reportedly passed on to the Soviet Union in return for more exit visas for Soviet Jews), a new controversy erupted in 2004 when it was revealed that a key Pentagon official called Larry Franklin had passed classified information to an Israeli diplomat. Israel is hardly the only country that spies on the US, but its willingness to spy on its principal patron casts further doubt on its strategic value.

I would really love to understand the mindset of the Palestinians. The one story that still sticks in my craw is the recent one where a Palestinian girl with burns over 40% of her body and who was saved by Israeli doctors. She was found with an explosive belt when crossing into Israel for her routine checkup. To kill her doctor and as many hospital patients as she could?
And the kicker? Her mother was upset, not over her actions or arrest, but that she was prevented from blowing herself up!!
Just lovely.

Holocaust denial, fudging history and wholesale slaughter has become the clarion call of the Islamo-Fascists and has even found a home amongst the morally bamboozled.

The sorry state of affairs has not erupted in a vacuum. The fact is that Muslims and Arabs can not even get a long with each other and their bloody history validates this as a fact. Does Darfur ring a bell?

I would suggest that the 'Arab Street' attempt to control themselves from sending rockets over the border, homicide bombers into markets, calling for the destruction of Jews and voting for Nazis with headscarfs as their chosen leaders. They might find that their circumstances improve; well at least it will with Israel, I can not vouch for how they will conduct themselves amongst each other.

Most people on these comments don't want their tax dollar spent on bombs or weapons used to blow up or kill people.
WAKE UP - THEY ARE!!!

Almost every Palestinian murdered, by gun fire or by "targeted assasination" (read: presumed guilty until killed) can be laid to rest on your doorstep. It was your tax dollars that made each and every one of those attacks possible.

Why are some murders a problem, but not others?

Jamil -- You are really sad if you think the holocaust never occured. That's complete and utter nonsense. I acknowledge Palestinian suffering, so why can you not, in turn, acknowledge others' suffering. Open up your mind!

As for more current issues, while I certainly feel badly about any Palestinian suffering, I agree with Ben Rosenthal. The Palestinian people voted Hamas into power, and have to deal with the harsh consequences.

And for all the talk about the "Arab brotherhood", if Arabs care so much about the Palestinians why don't they give them the money to help during these difficult times?? As usual, it's not there at all. I'm not surprised. It's been the same way all these years in regards to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It's pure Arabic rhetoric. The Arabic countries are comprised of some of the world's wealthiest people and yet they refuse to help their own...all so they can continue to push for the end of Israel. And that's one of the real reasons Palestian's suffer to this day. So Arabs, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Don't blame everyone else.

If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should the palestinians accept that?

On previous occasions I have made my position very clear about war crimes, torture,and conduct that threatens the lives of non-combatants. I don't like it! I don't care how you feel about governments or movements, You do not threaten the health and safety of civilians. Anybody who condones or supports such activity is the lowest form of life, and proves it by their conduct.

Unfortunately there is no easy solution to this problem. Obviously we do not want to finance terror operations, and we know that will be the case if aid goes directly to the Hamas-controlled government (although, in that respect, the situation is not much different from the days when Fatah was in power).

At the same time, the wholesale punishment of the Palestinian people for having elected Hamas is unacceptable. Beyond being inhumane, it also follows the Al-Qaeda logic in justifying the massacre of civilians on 9/11: "They voted for their government and they pay taxes to it, hence they are not innocent civilians".

It would have been nice if we could channel aid through international organizations directly to the Palestinian people. That approach has its own drawbacks: First, if the aid is in the form of cash, it could easily be taxed or otherwise appropriated by the Hamas government. So it should be in the form of goods and services, and those require an infrastructure to dispense. Second, if we bypass the government, we basically relieve Hamas of the responsibility of running the country, and they are free to continue acting as a terror organization while being in government. Still, of all the options available, this one seems to be the lesser evil.

Israeli leaders have repeatedly sought to deny the Palestinians' national ambitions. When she was prime minister, Golda Meir famously remarked that 'there is no such thing as a Palestinian.' Pressure from extremist violence and Palestinian population growth has forced subsequent Israeli leaders to disengage from the Gaza Strip and consider other territorial compromises, but not even Yitzhak Rabin was willing to offer the Palestinians a viable state. Ehud Barak's purportedly generous offer at Camp David would have given them only a disarmed set of Bantustans under de facto Israeli control. The tragic history of the Jewish people does not obligate the US to help Israel today no matter what it does.

It is also worth bearing in mind that the Zionists relied on terrorist bombs to drive the British from Palestine, and that Yitzhak Shamir, once a terrorist and later prime minister, declared that 'neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat.'

Hey NiceDay

Way to start a productive dialog.

Not only did I never state that I hate America, I never even suggested it. In fact, I love this country, primarily because, as a citizen, I have the right to say what I want about the government and its policies.

If you disagree with what I have to say, that's one thing, and we can deal with it. But try to point out places where perhaps my argument was weak, and I'll try to elucidate it. Or even, give you websites to look at. But don't EVER tell me to leave this country, or insinuate that I don't love it.

The only thing I don't like about this country are people like you who think you own it and/or control the borders.

Have a NICEDAY

Open Your Eyes -- I think yours are actually closed.

Yes, the founders of Israel did fight, but much of that land legitimately belonged to Jews to begin with. Read some books, will ya? Even my own grandmother was born in Jerusalem in 1902 and it was mostly Jewish then --almost half a century prior to Zionists started bombing the British.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see a problem. Obviously the Hammas Gov't has the backing of the people, so let the people fund it. Why should my tax dollars go to a people who by their vote put a terrorist organization in charge of their daily lives. I think it's time to reap what you sow...

The Palestinian situation reminds me of a begging dog that feels it has the power and position to demand more food of it's benefactors. Without the largesse of modern societies, especially the USA, these pathetic holdouts from the middle ages would be nothing more than topsoil. T

The Palestinian situation reminds me of a begging dog that feels it has the power and position to demand more food of it's benefactors. Without the largesse of modern societies, especially the USA, these pathetic holdouts from the middle ages would be nothing more than topsoil.

Lets start by goibg back to the pre '67 borders and take it from there.

Another aspect of this situation that is being ignored: Palestinians would not be so dependent on international aid if Israel was not actively destroying the Palestinian economy.

Junior Mint - I did not say there wasn't any jews in Palestine before they started bombimg the British. In fact, Yasser Arafat used to happily play soccer with his jew friends in his younger years. In fact there are jews all over the world. The USA has millions of Jews. Should we give New York to them as well?

Can someone enlighten me?

Prior to the recent elections, the US strongly pushed for Hamas participation. At the time, did Condi or Bush or anyone else warn the Palestinians that if they decided to exercise their democratic rights and elect Hamas, then the result would be starvation of the Palestinians? Maybe they did, I just don't know. I don't remember hearing about it. All I remember was Bush going on about how wonderful democracy was, how great freedom was etc. etc. i.e. his usual speech.

If they didn't warn about the consequnces of voting for Hamas and make that very clear to all Palestinians before the elction, it seems like this whole election was designed to create a situation where starving these long suffering people could be justified in addition to all the other misery inflicted on them. If so that would be truly a great crime.

With democracy comes with responsibility. The palestinian people are solely responsible for Hamas being in power and in turn deserve the repercussions from their actions.

Junior Mint - One more thing..."Jerusalem in 1902 and it was mostly Jewish" Where do you get your facts? If Jerusalem was mostly Jewish, why does Israel need to import Jews from around the world? Jews are experts in distorting the truth. Thatis why they make sucessful lawyers.

Answer this: if a killer expressed a desire to eliminate you and your family, would you support and help the killer? Also, how would you feel if your neighbors were criticizing you instead of criticizing the killer? Any sane, rational person in a situation like this would be outraged. That said, there is an insidious double standard that is applied to Israel. Whenever Israel defends itself, it is demonized by the world as an "aggressor". However, when Hamas or Islamic Jihad murder innocents like children, there is no criticism. Heck, there's even tacit support from deranged terrorists and anti-Semites all around the world. Let's be crystal clear - Israel has a right to exist and a right to defend itself. No one has the right to demand that Israel sacrifice its security and survival to killers like Hamas. Moreover, the Palestinians should learn that choices have consequences. They made their bed, let them sleep in it.

The Palestinian people ELECTED their government in a DEMOCRATIC election. If Bush wants to spread democracies around the world, as he preaches, then Bush needs to accept the Palestinian people's choice and find a way to work with them.

Its not a democracy if we put caveats as to who can run and whom we can vote for.

Jay NY - Ben-Gurion acknowledged that the early Zionists were far from benevolent towards the Palestinian Arabs, who resisted their encroachments - which is hardly surprising, given that the Zionists were trying to create their own state on Arab land. In the same way, the creation of Israel in 1947-48 involved acts of ethnic cleansing, including executions, massacres and rapes by Jews, and Israel's subsequent conduct has often been brutal, belying any claim to moral superiority. Between 1949 and 1956, for example, Israeli security forces killed between 2700 and 5000 Arab infiltrators, the overwhelming majority of them unarmed. The IDF murdered hundreds of Egyptian prisoners of war in both the 1956 and 1967 wars, while in 1967, it expelled between 100,000 and 260,000 Palestinians from the newly conquered West Bank, and drove 80,000 Syrians from the Golan Heights.

During the first intifada, the IDF distributed truncheons to its troops and encouraged them to break the bones of Palestinian protesters. The Swedish branch of Save the Children estimated that '23,600 to 29,900 children required medical treatment for their beating injuries in the first two years of the intifada.' Nearly a third of them were aged ten or under. The response to the second intifada has been even more violent, leading Ha'aretz to declare that 'the IDF . . . is turning into a killing machine whose efficiency is awe-inspiring, yet shocking.' The IDF fired one million bullets in the first days of the uprising. Since then, for every Israeli lost, Israel has killed 3.4 Palestinians, the majority of whom have been innocent bystanders; the ratio of Palestinian to Israeli children killed is even higher (5.7:1). So who is terrorizing who? What abour ethinic cleansing, is that OK as long as it is done by a Jew?

If indeed the Palestinian people voted Hamas into power, they are to deal with the international resistance that comes with such a vote. If they support an organization that murders innocents and calls for the destruction of their neighboring state, then they must embrace that militancy and all that comes with it and consider themselves, in effect, deputized. They cannot vote their miitancy at the polls and then complain about the consequences. To knuckle under now is to ratify what is essentially a terrorist state, and to tell the people of Palestine their vote doesn't matter. In a democracy, it does. We are living with George W. Bush and his policies because a majority (this time) put him in power. The majority that put Hamas in power was much greater than that which put W. in the White House here. Let it be known I am neither pro-Israel nor pro-Palestinian, but a logical fallacy must be addressed. Or restated simply: Be careful what you wish for . . .

Posted by: Ben Rosenthal | May 11, 2006 11:42 AM

correct me if i'm wrong but isn't this the same logic used by Bin Laden to justify the murders of thousands of people on
Sep 11? that in a democracy votes count and thus people are as guilty as their government? if so , then we did let milions of germans of the hook so easily.let's make up for this mistake and nuke Germany.

"Prior to the recent elections, the US strongly pushed for Hamas participation"

Manfred can you back up that claim?
Hamas was always regarded to be a terrorist organization by the US- and by most of the world gov't. I don't believe there was any call for any representation by the West.
There is a huge problem considering what their goal is.
Recent news, interception by Israel of a huge load of explosives destinied for Gaza.
To be used for what?
Financed by whom?
The ordinary Palestinian unfortunately is in the middle, but there is a war.

Every historian would agree that in what constitutes Israel today, the Jews were a small minority around 1945. On that we should have no back and forth. It's silly to say otherwise. We can't rewrite history. We must just make the best of what has happened, however wrong it was when viewed in retrospect.

Any discussion of who owns what must acknowledge that a great historical injustice was done. However the world is full of such injustice and what we can work towards is to make the present as decent as possible for all concerned.

Shalom and my apologies for the hatred expressed by so many of my fellow religionists.

I would like to see what Americans would do if a foreign power occupies the country, and bulldozes entire neighborhoods whenever it suspects 'American terrorists' in one of the houses.

America, of course, would immediately agree to not fight back, to renounce all violence, and to acknowledge the right of the occupying country to exist, inclusive of the many choice pieces of America that the occupiers have annexed and put inside big walls.

Yeah, right.
I'll sell that scenario to Hollywood. What a blockbuster that will be: Rambo the Negotiator - the hero who gave America away.

As long as these double standards persist whereby Israeli atrocities are 'self-defense', Iraqi wedding parties shot to pieces by the US are 'regrettable accidents' but Palistinian atrocities are 'terrorism', we'll never get anywhere.

We need to apply the same standards to everyone. Cut funding to Hamas? Fine, but then cut off support for Israel too.

Open Your Eyes -- I think yours are actually closed.

Yes, the founders of Israel did fight, but much of that land legitimately belonged to Jews to begin with. Read some books, will ya? Even my own grandmother was born in Jerusalem in 1902 and it was mostly Jewish then --almost half a century prior to Zionists started bombing the British.

Posted by: JuniorMint | May 11, 2006 01:20 PM

Are you telling me that after 1400 years of Arab and Islamic domination to the region, there were Jews living in Jerusalem? What a miracle to have survived all these years under the "racist","fanatics" "jew haters" arabs.

let the palestinians starve.the more that die will mean less for us to fight.they wanted this joke of a govt.now they shall suffer the wrath of the west.the world is to small now to just put our heads in the sand and hope this goes away,we must take the fight to them.these people are the exact type of extremist that have no place in todays world.if they cant evolve with the rest of the world then they should go the way of dinosaurs.the entire arab world should take a good look at how we handle this as its a shot across the bow of any country that wants to export hate and violence.any person who thinks that they should be helped is an enemy of the free world and should be treated as the pal's are.these people are the minority of the world and should not force the majority to except them.every place the muslim people live there is trouble,they cant live in peace with any other religion.they will not accept us so why should we accept them.being the minority they should accept thier place and try to get along and not force the rest of the world to cower in the corner in fear.The USA was born with a gun in her hand and if we must pick up our ARM'S again ill be the first to step up and put this uprising down with all the force that science has given us.and yes that means nukes.american blood should not be spilled on that sandy ground.We should send them back to the stone age except thats where they are now and like it.the only way to send them a message is brute force as that is thier culture.they treat women as dog's,so they should be treated the same.they must show the world they are ready to move into the 21 century or be wipe clean from the earth so the rest of us can go about our lives.there is no place in todays world for ANY people who will not accept the rights of all human beings to live free .so stand up and scream as loud as you can "I will not be a victim,i am strong and will not be afraid".thanks and have a great life

Open Your Eyes, et al -- why are you so anti-Israel? Did some Jewish boys beat you up when you were kids? Seriously, I know you are all trying to sound intelligent. Instead, you appear to be nothing but raging anti-semites. Why don't you try educating yourselves a little and read books like Alan Dershowitz' 'The Case for Israel,' which explains, that, prior to 1948, there were many areas where Jews lived in what is now Israel. And hey, if a Jew can read No God but God, you guys should be able to read the Dershowiz book.

Rami is right. The Jews were least persecuted by the Moslems, when viewed broadly through history. However today it appears that many Jews ( as seen by the postings) think of Moslems as lower than dirt, camels etc. and other insults. Strange isn't it?

The Palestinian resort to freedom fighting as a consequence of the brutal occupation. I am sure Americans would do the same. The Palestinians believe they have no other way to force Israeli concessions. As Ehud Barak once admitted, had he been born a Palestinian, he 'would have joined a terrorist organisation'.

Alan Dershowitz' 'The Case for Israel'----written by a Jew...

Kelly - It's true that prior to the elections the U.S. had exerted some pressure on Israel to make sure the elections are open to all and free of any restrictions.

However, support for the concept of democracy and opposing the policies of a specific government are not mutually exclusive. Those who argue that by supporting the elections the U.S. has taken on some moral obligation to assist any elected Palestinian government, are logically challenged, to put it mildly.

Junior Mint
None of us is anti-Isreal, we are pro-reality. Realizing that blind unswerving support for Israel is detrimental to everyone involved, we have decided to learn a little more than common knowledge, and have formed our own opinions, rather than spouting half-truths and bald-faced lies that one of our parents told us.

When the people of Palestine voted for a government whose sworn and standing policy is the destruction of another nation, they voted for war.

Why should any othe nation be obliged to fund of a state whose sworn purpose is the destrution of another state? The Palestinian people are getting only a small taste of exactly what they asked for.

Pro-Israel Crowd and Hypocrites-

If Israelis can elect terrorists like Shamir and Begin and war criminal like Sharon (Man of Peace per W.), and our gov't supports such despicable Israeli actions, then Palestinians should be allowed to elect their own leaders. Or free/popular elections and human rights are privileges reserved only for Americans and our fellow Israeli brethrens?

Thom-

Please don't respond to NICEDAY and give him any importance. As Americans, you and I are committed to this country which means that we want America to flourish and exist in peace with other nations. America is our home "for better or worse" - I wonder if we can say the same for NICEDAY.

Open your eyes America-

Please keep posting!

How arrogant some are to criticize Palestinians for voting for Hamas, hypocritically saying "You shouldn't have voted for terrorists".

These same people make no mention of Israelis voting for Olmert who has openly stated he intends to steal Palestinian land ("unilateral decisions on borders" is Olmert's spin on it) and will use terrorist violence in the form of guns, bombs and tanks supplied by the US and its money.

By the way, the US$50million that Israel has stolen by refusing to give it to Hamas? That money is taxes paid by Palestinians and is earmarked for the Palestinian Authority. The theft of the money is but another example of Israeli economic terrorism against the Palestinians.

Junior Mint - I do not have a hatread toward jews. I hate the hypocracy and the unjustice from many Jews not all. Jews should be the last of people to opress others for their religions and ethinicity. they are the ones that always want everyone to cry with them over the holocaust. What about the holacaust being imposed in incent Palestnians? anti-semi, Holocaust are words used when ever any one has anything to say about the Jews. The Palestinians should come up similar words to used for their sake as well.

1. Palestinians/Hamas should NOT recognize Israel right to exist as long as Israel does not recognize the Palestinian rights to exist in Palestine.

2. Terrorism as it is defined by Israel/US is the "terror that is done to them" but the terror that they cause onto others (especially the Palestinians) is not terror.

3. What is Israel (in conjunction with US) has done and continues to the Palestinians is Terrorism in all it forms as defined by US state dept and Israel govt.

I don't think anyone should ever have to starve. However, let's tell it like it is: the Palestinians are starving themselves.

Sure, Hamas was freely elected. They are their people's choice, and that choice has consequences. All Hamas has to do is pay lip-service to what the West wants and the money rolls in. But they won't even do that.

They would rather starve than admit that Isreal is a soveriegn nation and pledge to settle any differences with legtimate forces, rather than cowardly cult-suicides.

These "ordinary Palestinian people" that are suffering are the same people who blow themselves up in crowded buses, launch missiles with no aiming capability and voted Hamas into power in the first place. If they want to be treated like human beings, then stop acting like terrorists. The two are mutually exclusive.

Well, the way I see it is...the Palestinian people voted Hamas in so I say let them live with it.
Muslems have been making decisions to suppot terrorist orginazations for decades and it is about time they learn the consequences.

What would each side need to do to make peace and live in peace as neighbors?

The Muslim world today *in general* has a very big problem (more than any other religion/culture) with intolerance, denial, a desire to live in the stone ages and lack of self-esteem. This seems to manifest itself in the form of hatred and horrific violence. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is just one of the highly visible front lines... but it's everywhere Muslims are. With globalization moving forward, either Muslims are going to have to come to terms with the rest of the world, or we're going to have to come to terms with the fanatical Muslim world. The 'west' not going to succumb (except for the phony guilt-ridden liberals), and the fanatical Muslims are not going to succumb. So what do we have? War. It sucks, but it's true.

So that's what happened in Northern Ireland. All those Muslims supporting Terrorists. Well thank goodness that's solved.

Kelly, Hamas was permitted to fully participate in the elections. The main sponsor of the election was Bush/Condi. Why did they allow a supposedly "terrorist" organization to participate in the election? That is why I said they were fully encouraged to participate. There was no discouragement as far as I can tell. Do correct me if I am wrong.

Oh, one other thing...for all you Hamas lovers, the ones that feel the Palestians have been wronged for so long.

You all have big problems with Israel and the US but that doesn't stop you from asking for lots of stuff.

When you want something you must ask nicely and I haven't heard anyone say PLEASE.

Peter,
PLEASE explain to me what that last post meant.

What is lost in this discussion is that many ordinary Palestinians voted for Hamas not for ideological reasons, but because of the corruption of Arafat/Fatah such that ordinary g'vt. functions such as trash pick up were ignored or done poorly... a "throw the bums out" type of vote. Had the other countries supporting Palestine financially had some oversight, rather than just giving $ to Arafat and his cronies, maybe this situation could have been avoided.

What is lost in this discussion is that many ordinary Palestinians voted for Hamas not for ideological reasons, but because of the corruption of Arafat/Fatah such that ordinary g'vt. functions such as trash pick up were ignored or done poorly... a "throw the bums out" type of vote. Had the other countries supporting Palestine financially had some oversight, rather than just giving $ to Arafat and his cronies, maybe this situation could have been avoided.

Ditto, PLEASE explain yourself Peter.

Well, when you really think about it, the people in Middle East have been living together for so long...no-wonder they hate each other.

Look at the US, we have only been a Nation for a couple of hundred years and we are hating each other more and more each day. We fight each other with rhetoric right now...but who knows when the first live round will be fired.

Okay, does anyone understand why Israel exists? Because after WWII, it was abundantly clear that Jews weren't wanted around or alive. Wouldn't you want someplace where you felt safe, too, if you were persecuted for thousands of years? And so, yes, I suppose this is where all the supposed pro-Palestinians chime in about the establishment of a Palestinian state. And suprise, suprise, I agree with you but Israel MUST exist, too. And that's that. Over and out.

Thorn, it is obvious that you are an elite liberal intellectual...you should be able to figure it out.

Junior Mint et al. want the uneducated to read Dershowitz's book. Isn't this the same guy who represented OJ Simpson after the wife was murdered? I guess if he could get OJ off, then he could defend anything!!! Even more, he could convince you of pretty much anything, leaving facts aside. Why not read Noam Chomsky or Edward Said instead?

Dershowitz may be a lawyer and simpson was a miststep for him in my opinion. but he is an unwavering supporter of israel and for that i respect him.

Noam Chomsky... ha ha.. you crack me up. How about all you people stop relying solely on your silly books and poke your head out into the real world.... use logic and reason to come up with your own opinions.

JuniorMint, you hit the nail right on the Dershowitz head-"unwavering". Synonymous with "uncritical". Eventually, if not already leading to "fanatical". Not the source for an unbiased view would you agree?

"unwavering" = "uncritical"? What a stupid thing to say. Do I really need to tell you the difference?

Chomsky is the worlds greatest living logician/linguist. Silly me to have thought that Chomsky used reason and logic. Pardon my foolishness.

Peter,
Again, PLEASE tell me what that post meant. You accuse many of us of being anti-Israel and Anti-US. How could you possibly know that?

What have I asked for? Other than fairness and equal treatment for two equal people, my requests are few and far between.

Also, PLEASE spell my name right T-H-O-M

"Pardon my foolishness."... You can be forgiven if you repent your gullibility.

Seth, and by the way, you missed the obvious point. Remember what I said about using your own brain? Again, you're falling back on your crutch when you can stand on your own two feet.

"ordinary palestinians" - Hah!

They are only yet receiving a fraction of the pain and suffering they gleefully wish on Jews, and us Americans for that matter.

I only hope that when the full force of the evil they wish on Israel backfires on them (and it will, we should all hope and pray), that it does indeed cause the needed re-evaluation of priorities by "ordinary palestinians", which is desperately needed both for the security of Israel, and less importantly (since they are currently quite sadistic perpetrators) the palestinians themselves.

Where did Arafat get Billions of $$$$? Foriegn Aid sent to his people, or a factory he built in Palestine that employed Palestinians at a fair wag?
Did foreign aid stop with the death of Arafat?
Did Palestinians vote for Hamas because they were terrorists fighing zionism, or were they hoping for a less corrupt government?
Did Fatah lose because they were dealing for peace, or because they continued to steal from the people like Arafat?
Why do most Palestinians work in Israel? Could it be better pay? Or, maybe even better working conditions?
Why, if not for Israeli jobs, would there be 90%+ unemployment in Palestine?
Would you go to Palestine to work? If so, where would you work in Palestine?
If they have a LOT of inexpensive labor, why will foreign businesses not locate in Palestine? Was the government to rupt? (that is corrupt, abrupt, and disruptive)
If I vote for a less corrupt government, and my only option is a terrorist, how should I vote?
If 20% of the people of my state have guns and my neighbors and I do not, and food is delivered, how much do I get, or get to keep?
If money is sent, will my government that is angry and committed to waging war buy my family food?
Is the only occupation open to my children that of becoming a militiaman or continuing to starve?
Is it hatred over past wrongs, or greed that drives my governors?
If they tried to obtain peace so we could have jobs, would those they have taught to hate let them?
Would my brothers in Syria, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, or Iran promote peace so I can have a job?
Why does the world media teach the world that those small percentage of us who dance in the street at the death of another, or who forment strife on the streets represent the people of Palestine?
How do the 80% of us who would prefer a good job at a fair wage and a safe place to rasie our family get from here to there?

The Palestinians threw away 80,000 jobs with the witht the 2nd uprising. That was their decision. Why does the worl have to support their stated bojective; to quote Hamas:
"our highest aspiration is to die for the Jihad"

That is their choice.

As we speak, JuniorMint etc, there are people dying in hospitals in Palestine due to the cutoff of aid. Will we please simply have the heart to address this? That dying man is not a terrorist. Don't let him die and leave his blood on our hands.

To the "Questioner":
If you are for real, and I hope you are, you have a long and difficult road ahead of you for peace and a good life for you and your children.

As I wish you success and strength in confronting "those who teach hate", understand this. To protect my people, family, and children, I may have to reflect all the suffering your evil compatriots wish on us back to themselves.

If you are living among terrorists and just being quiet while allowing your back yard to be used for rocket launches, I must hope for your demise as well.

The way out is not just a token condemnation of terror. You and hopefully a large number of similarly peace-loving friends must organize and, with ZEAL, rise up to defeat the terrorists among you.

Then, maybe, only maybe, those with friends and relatives who have been torn limb from limb painfully with nails purposely added to bombs by your compatriots, can start again to begin to consider peace with you and a new majority-which-is-peace-loving palestinian people.

You will have to understand if this takes the limbless a while.

Almost all of Israel's leaders past and present were former terrorists. Why aren't we withholding our $3 Billion from them.

Shamir help out his hand to Nazi Germany during WWII and Israel elected him....as for Sharon ....everyone knows his history and Israeli's elected him...

Everyone looks to gain the moral high ground in this debate but I would posit that even from the high ground you would have to crane your neck skyward to look at a snake's ass...

Angus, that went nowhere... keep trying though.. it's fun.

To who thought they owned me. Are you seriously reference something that was admittedly horrible and a ONE time mistake from over 50 years ago! That the last and only act of terrorism done on behalf of Israel. The reason I am not referencing any Palestinian acts of terrorism is that there are far far too many to keep track of.

If you don't remember the British set up the Jewish state of Israel in the desert because the Jews where being systematically eradicated in a little thing we call the Holocaust. After which the Jews built a thriving democracy.

The point is not about first. The goal is to end the suffering and death that pervades the middle east. The point is who shoots last. Israel would love nothing more than to live in peace. The palestinians teach their children in grade school to hate and kill all jews and force them into the sea. Then they bomb women and children not the military.

Also be sure and check out that other comment that shows the wonderful and loving Hamas leadership starving it's citizens while stockpiling weapons. Yeah, these people really need more money.

"Shamir help out his hand to Nazi Germany during WWII"

Are you out of your mind?

How very interesting. The US has been giving for decades taxpayer money to help Israel, but it shouldn't help Palestinians. I would much like to have the right to choose where my taxes go, but unfortunately I don't. If I could choose, I would definitely want my tax money to go towards helping the Palestinians whose land has been taken by the Jews, whose houses are distroyed by Israely bulldozers and whose children are starved to death.

Since the beginning... the natural order of all life on earth has been 'THE SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST'. So lets not fool with mother nature and let matters play out without interferance from us. There is not another country in the world willing to take our place so nature can take it's course. Considering her strength of character, strong will to survive as a nation and cultural inheridance I'de bet on Israel and all the peace loving Muslems in the region as winners not fundementalist fanatics bent on destroying an entire people.

To say that Hammas just wants to govern is like saying that Hitler was only the leader of the "political wing" of the Nazi party.

Going thru some of the entries, my only thought was that they just finish that damned wall and get it over with

Going thru some of the entries, my only thought was that they just finish that damned wall and get it over with

Lorna, there are few more gullible than you. Find out the facts.

Land has not been taken. In fact it has been given away (Gaza).

Houses are bulldozed, yes, but only to stop terrorists gleefully tearing children limb from limb.

Starved to death? Come on! Israel pays welfare to Arabs. Starvation is caused by Arab brethren denying exits from politically maintained refuge camps.

You would break down and cry if you knew the truth about how completely 180 degrees wrong you have it.

Every other nation in the world would have bombed Jenin safely from the skys. Only Israel puts its own soldiers at risk, going door to door, and in return got condemned for a non-existent massacre.

Be open to finding out the real truth. Then decide which side your soul wants to be on.

Perhaps you're not really gullible, but simply misinformed.

CommonSense, I admire your faith that there are "all the peace loving Muslims". I truly fear that is not the case. There is a silent majority, but I fear what is in their hearts. Very sorry to say it.
Someone please prove otherwise.

For the life of me i can not understand how palestinians can be so un greatfull.sure the zionists stole land and then put them in refugee camps,but hey get over it.Sure zionists dictate were and when you can travel,but hey really get over it.sure the zionists are putting a wall that cuts you off from your family,but is that really any reason to be mad.Sure the checkpoints are degrading and intended for humiliating you,but man dont get mad.Just go the UN and ask them to look into the resolutions,im sure they would be more than happy to help.But please understand you are dealing with special people,it is there world you just live in it.Always remember even a dog eats crumbs from the masters table.

Personally, I agree with Marc, I think the name was, who said we should cut funding to both Israel and Palestine. They're both committing acts of terrorism on each other, and the justification of each is 'They attack us, and we should own the land.' I think it was a damnfool idea to create Israel in a place where they'd be surrounded by people that hated their guts, and no doubt came about as a result of lobbying by people who ardently believed in two thousand year old fairy tales. If America really felt the Jews weren't safe and needed a homeland, why didn't we just give them North Dakota or some other nearly unpopulated section of America? Buy out the few current residents with double or triple market value, create Israel in a place where it would be contiguous with countries not actively seeking its destruction... what a novel concept. And ever since that monumental postwar idiocy, American policy towards Israel has been based on two things - Religion and Power.

Keep all of the fundamentalists who believe in the strict interpretation of the Bible happy as they wait for armageddon, and keep a supposed ally in a region we're highly dependent upon for oil...

Why should we ever expect them to not be at each other's throats?

Thom, sorry for the spelling error. I think you can see how I could make the error. I ask you though...do you love the U.S.?
Be truthful... are you a bleeding heart liberal?

I would say that the answers are NO and then YES. Am I correct?

What I meant by the post is not only directed at the Palestinians but to all of the countries in the world that beg for and accept the treasure of the US but continue to HATE us anyway.

I'm sorry but I simply don't understand how and why we should be so generous and continuesly get slaped in the face.

From today's Post:

By Richard Morin
Thursday, May 11, 2006; A02
(Casinos and Crime: The Luck Runs Out)

A Terrifying Truth About Terrorism

Who supports terrorism in the Middle East? Not the people you'd expect, according to Dalia Mogahed of the Gallup Organization. Surveys in eight Muslim countries revealed that supporters of terrorism -- defined as those who applauded the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks -- were no more religious than other Muslims and tended to be better-educated and more affluent.

The polls found those who regularly attended prayer services were no more likely to back terrorism than those who did not. Nor were Muslims who agreed that religion "was an important part of your daily life."

About 25 percent of all Muslims with higher-than-average incomes supported the Sept. 11 attacks -- slightly more than those who had below-average incomes or were poor. Among high school or college graduates, 44 percent held extremist views, compared with 38 percent of less-educated Muslims. And the unemployed were no more likely to back terrorism than those who worked full time, according to the poll of 8,000 Muslims in October.

What did distinguish terrorism supporters? Belief in self-determination, Mogahed found. Extremists were only about half as likely as moderates to believe that the United States would allow people in the Middle East to fashion their own political future.

TO jay NY,if some one stole your land would you fight back.so to say the palos face reaction for there actions so do zionists.as american indians were once savage killers in the eyes of the white man,that is the view of palos,they are fighting for the ground under there feet.not the land the zionists tell them they can have but the land they were born on.dont spin the facts and hope it reads like the truth.a lie is always a lie.this is not some slick talk,this is real life.

To seth,so your saying a wrong was done by pushing the palos off there land but its to late now we must move on.who do you think makes the rules.the palos have a say my friend whether you like it are not.Its haggar against sara.

For any of those that claim to be American conservatives or Republicans, let me remind you of a few things. Real American conservatism (The Republican Party) is based on a tradition of fiscal and moral responsibility, and a desire to defend our nation with a strong military. We freed the slaves. We strive for smaller government. We strive to stay out of foreign conflicts if at all possible, and to increase the free market world wide.

So if one looks at our military, monetary, and diplomatic support of the settlements in Israel, it is difficult if not impossible to conclude that they are in line with conservative principles in any way. Defending Israel is fine. We defend many of our allies in that it meets our security needs. On the other hand, defending the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories has been the greatest financial, diplomatic, and geopolitical (not to mention humanitarian) disaster we have ever created. The occupation and the settlements are morally reprehensible, and no US administration has ever dared to assert otherwise, because it violates the very principles that our constitution and nation were founded upon. Yet, strangely, we have still sent the Israelis the cash and weapons necessary to maintain this utterly dysfunctional behavior for about the last 40 years.

An odd juxtaposition of theory and practice you might conclude. The reason is maddeningly simple. Elections here are often very close. So pre 9/11 , no politician wanted to jeopardize their political career by unnecessarily alienating Aipac or the Christian Right and be branded (wrongly) an anti-Semite (among other unpleasant consequences) in order to interfere in a conflict that was not perceived by voters to really matter to America. It's called Political Cowardice. Let me repeat: Political Cowardice. And many members of both parties are guilty, with rare exception.

So now, In terms of sheer cost (look at this as an investment, then calculate the return on the US's investment in supporting the Settlements) the losses are greater than any other foreign policy debacle in US history: It gave rise to and maintained middle eastern world terrorism; The war in Beirut; Inspired Osama Bin Laden to perpetrate 9/11 (he said that he conceived of 9/11 when he saw the towers burning in Beirut and has maintained all along that the Palestinian conflict is a main reason for his activities, going so far as to say that "if we really just hated freedom, why did we not attack, say, Sweden?") ; is one of the main recruiting tools of Al qaeda ; led to the war in Afghanistan, Iraq and all subsequent middle eastern conflicts; necessitates the creation of huge and costly government institutions such as Homeland Security, and last but not least, leaves us in the unfortunate and morally bankrupt position of literally starving the Palestinians until they forsake their democratically elected government during a time at which we are supposed to winning the hearts and minds of Arab and Muslim people across the globe.

So lets make the US, Israel, the Middle East and the entire world safer by forcing Israel to quit all settlements in the occupied territories and rebuild the wall along the green line only. We regain the moral high ground, we dramatically reduce world terrorism, we reduce tensions with every country in the middle east, and we can begin recovering from the trillions of dollars of losses that we have incurred as a result.

And then, how about a Manhattan project to create a working fusion reactor on US soil.? There is a much better use of US capitol than endlessly sending arms, money and diplomatic support to Israel in order to cover the massive shortfall and geopolitical repercussions caused by the settlement movement. The Chinese already are working on their own right now.

J

Baffled, you deserve an explanation.
The Jews were put in refugee camps pulled themselves out, and built a nation. Palestinians are permanently kept in refugee camps by their Arab brethren for political reasons. Zionist put up a wall, which has prevented hundreds of murderous attacks and loss of life. Wouldn't you do that if your family were threatened? Bombs still manage to get through checkpoints though they slow them down and filter them out significantly. You would prefer letting people be blown apart in order reduce humiliation by the part of the perpetrators?
It was the UN which brought Israel into existence, though the palestinians refuse to honor that.
You are indeed dealing with a special people, one that still sells water, gas, and electricity to those that openly cry for their destruction, one that treats even those that hate them in their own hospitals, and one that still refuses to launch an all-out war killing as many of the blood-thirsty enemy as possible, though this refusal is not matched by the palestinians, who would eagerly kill as many as possible if only they could.

Even a dog does not take sadistic delight in the pain and suffering of fellow dogs.

To Michael O:

"Shamir help out his hand to Nazi Germany during WWII"

"Are you out of your mind? "

Well perhaps these questions are not mutually dependent but since I am not qualified I will not speculate on my own sanity.

Now regarding Mr Shamir - his terrorist group LEHI sent out emissaries to Vichy (French Nazi Sympathizers) -controlled Lebanon to meet with representatives of the Third Reich and submit an offer that his group would fight against the British on the side of Nazi Germany.

Remember the US and Britain were on the same side in WW2.

Countries that beg.do you also mean the guilt money the US pays for the rapeing of a countries natural resources.The us takes alot more from the world then it gives.So im not sure what you mean.

It is not surprising that Israel and its American supporters want the US to deal with any and all threats to Israel's security. If their efforts to shape US policy succeed, Israel's enemies will be weakened or overthrown, Israel will get a free hand with the Palestinians, and the US will do most of the fighting, dying, rebuilding and paying. But even if the US fails to transform the Middle East and finds itself in conflict with an increasingly radicalised Arab and Islamic world, Israel will end up protected by the world's only superpower. This is not a perfect outcome from the Lobby's point of view, but it is obviously preferable to Washington distancing itself, or using its leverage to force Israel to make peace with the Palestinians.

Denying the Palestinians their legitimate political rights certainly has not made Israel more secure, and the long campaign to kill or marginalise a generation of Palestinian leaders has empowered extremist groups like Hamas, and reduced the number of Palesti