As usual a major media source 'The Washington Post ' fails to distinguish morally and poltiically between democratic humane Israel and the violence- prone terroristic entity which is the 'Palestinian Authority'. Ever since the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, removal of eight- thousand people from their homes, there has been constant violence from Gaza directed at Israel. The Palestinians aim to kill as many civilians as they can in any way they can. Israel aims in all its military operations to limit civilian casualties. One understands the need to report the statements made by all sides but one wishes there would be a bit more moral clarity, and support for the side which is democratic and humane.

I agree that there needs to be more moral clarity. Especially with regards to the murder and horror Israel has inflicted on the Palestinian people over the past several weeks *completely* unchecked. Regardless of the "goals" of Israel to minimize civilian deaths, the Ghali family has been slaughtered, the pregnant woman and her unborn child are DEAD, and so are countless other innocent Palestinians. The numbers far outnumber those of Israelis.

Since when was an attack on a military, occupying force a terrorist attack?

Israel has performed incursions into Gaza to "kidnap" and assassinate Palestinians. Now all of a sudden that Palestinians do this, it's hampering the peace process?

Where's the morality in that? Sounds like a horrible doubel standard.

When are we Americans going to wake up and realize we pay Israel over 3 billion dollars a year in order to maintain the illegal military occupation of the Palestinian territories? All the violence we hear and read about comes from one source: Israel's Occupation. It must end now to secure peace and I do not mean withdrawing settlers from the area. The occupation continues in Gaza, as Israel controls Gaza's sea, air, and land borders. Let us not forget about the West Bank, which is a lot bigger than tiny Gaza that is being carved up with illegal settlers (colonists), the illegal WALL, and Israeli military. What do we expect is going to happen when you imprison an entire nation and further cut off all aid to starve the people? Palestinians, as occupied peoples have the legal right to resist the occupation (even armed resistance under international law is legitimate). Israel, as the occupier has absolutely no right to be on Palestinian territory to begin with. We, Americans must wake up and pressure our government to pressure Israel and stop giving it blank approval.

Failure. Palestine IS Failure. Palestinians are the embodiment of Failure. In every endeavour, Failure. Can't live in peace with each other much less anyone else. When, after numerous attempts from 1948 until today, Palestinians (along with various Arab brethren) have failed to "push the Jews into the sea", what's left to do? Apparently resort to kidnapping, suicide bombers, lobbing shoddily crafted "rockets" at towns of civilians. The Palestinian militants who think of themselves as warriors are no more than bungling criminals and cowards who can't shoot straight or organize any military operation beyond a squad level lavatory detail. Thanks to them, the Palestinian cause is as dead as Arafat.

First of all any peace that is forced is not true peace,it is only unrest bottled up that will spew out at the first oppertunity and we have seen that time after time.
The real answer is to let the might of one country overomes the other whichever way, and when the inevitable force wins, and the other side cries for mercy,then the winning side can be merciful and the lsoing side be thankful for what they have and seek to work together to avoid the clashes for quite a while.

Sounds horrible, but what has 60 years briught about the way we have it now...NOTHING

Moral right and wrong are wonderful concepts but they dont work in the real world. Or should i say in the world we live in now..
Israel, do you love "The Arabs", Arabs, can you love "The Israeli's, not really.. You have each shed the blood of families . This is unfogiviable.
Realizing that now "? What grounds can you seek peace?""

I challange the readers to list grounds here .....

As usual an apologist for Israel--Shalom Freedman--offers red-herrings and digressions from the issues at hand to change the subject, condemn the Palestinians while absolving Israel of its own immoral and terrorist actions and policies, practice sophistry, display an immoral soul, heart, and mind, and abet and approve of terrorism.

**1. "Democratic humane Israel." Israel rules over millions of adults that are not allowed to participate in the Israeli electoral and governance process-Palestinians in the occupied territories, as well as operating as a segregationist nation in which Arabs are treated as second-class citizens in numerous ways relating to land ownership, construction, military service and the numerous social, educational, and financial benefits tied to military service, in its education system, etc.

**2. "Humane Israel." Israel greatly limits the availability of food, water, other natural resources, adequate shelter--the construction thereof, ownership thereof, location thereof, etc, educational resources, access to medical care, numerous other social services beneficial to health, life, well-being and other critical issues relating to human life and health, etc. for all Palestinians in the occupied territories--including millions of children. This is humane? It is currently threatening to cut off water, energy, etc. services for Gaza unless the captured soldier is handed over.

**3. "removal of eight- thousand people from their homes." Irrelevant to the issue, and a digression, but: By Israel from illegally occupied land, i.e. occupied by settlers who were thieves as recognized by international law and all nations but for Israel, the US and whatever tiny pacific island nation of the week that the US could bully.

**4. "Israel aims in all its military operations to limit civilian casualties." An assertion believed by no one but apologists for Israel's state terrorism, including third-party human rights organizations. The ratio of civilian casualties from Israeli "military" operations against combatants is higher than that of any clearly concerned for-civilian-life military in the world. It is believed that the extraordinarily high number of civilian casualties, relatively, is a result of deliberate Israeli strategy to intimidate the Palestinian civilian population. Likewise, the wounds suffered by Palestinian civilians have been deemed unnecessarily lethal, and deliberately so, by the IDF in situations when civilians have been direct targets of violence by the IDF. Ehud Barak is on public record as saying that, paraphrasing, 'IF killing 2000 Palestinians instead of 200 will bring Israel peace, we will do it.' That's a comment from that Israel does and will deliberately target civilians to achieve its goals. Regardless of "deliberate intention" to limit civilian casualties, a record that demonstrates that tactics used do not limit civilian casualties should be cause to revise those tactics in order to reduce those casualties, yet Israel, after decades, has not done this. The moral weight of "not intentionally" trying to inflict civilian casualties and limit them as much as possible does not absolve the immorality of failing to act in order to actually limit those casualties. Claims of intention do not vitiate moral responsibility for consequences when actions performed are inconsistent with stated intentions. The value of a human life is not based on the morality of the action undertaken by the party that kills that person.

**5. "Palestinians aim to kill as many civilians as they can in any way they can."
Some Palestinian terrorists, not by the democratically determined policy of the Palestinian people writ large, unlike the state polices of the "(Jewish) democratically" elected Israel.

**6. "the violence- prone terroristic entity which is the 'Palestinian Authority'." Def. of "terrorism" from some source and revised by me: The use, threat of use, and creation of the fear of use of violence against civilians for political purposes. A military occupation of a civilian population is terrorism in its use, threat of (further) use, and ongoing, universal created fear of use of violence against Palestinian civilians. Yes, the US occupation of Iraq is terrorism. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were two of the biggest single terrorist acts in human history. There is no military need for Israel's occupation. The Palestinians did not go to war with Israel up to and during the 1967 war. That war and prior history are not justification for occupying the Palestinians. The Palestinian and Arab situation as of June 1967 was the hope for a settlement with Israel that would adopt the 1947 partition borders for the creation of a Palestinian state (save your b.s. about all of that--it doesn't justify the occupation beginning in 1967, due to the war per Israel). Every moment of presence by an Israeli on Palestinian territory that is not wanted and deemed acceptable by the Palestinians is an act of terrorism. Every moment that Palestinian land or other natural resources are occupied, used, controlled, or destroyed by Israel is an act of terrorism, a terrorist moment. Every use of violence by Israel(is) against Palestinians in the territories is an act of violence--there is no such thing as legitimate self-defense by Israelis in a land they are occupying illegally, as an act of and through the further use of terrorism, acting and being thieves and outlaws. Were they obeying international law, not being terrorists, not being thieves, and not being in the territories to begin with, i.e. behaving morally and legally, they wouldn't be attacked in any given situation to be noted. They are intruders and cannot claim self-defense when they are in the commission of an unjustifiable, immoral capital offense.
*********
The issue is the lack of media objectivity and attention when assessing Israel's violence and terrorism against Palestinians. **************

Get out of the territories, period. No negotiations, nothing. Get out and then the negotiations begin. Israel says it won't negotiate under the barrel of a gun, yet ask Palestinians do so millions of times over. Israel has no legitimate claim to the amply-demonstrated "defensible" borders of 1967 (when were they ever demonstrated to be "indefensible" since they were well-defended in that very same 1967 war?). The Palestinians have other legitimate claims beyond the Occupied Territories, and those are where negotiations must begin.********8

This is moral clarity, Shalom.

Making peace requires both parties to make an effort. You cannot make peace with someone who continues to call for your utter destruction. To try to do so is not only foolish, but suicidal.

The Palestinian government and the Palestinian people (through their majority vote) have made their true desires clear - the utter destruction of the state of Israel. And, this is not an idle desire, but one which they are acting on (and have been acting on since the founding of the state of Israel).

Israel must act accordingly, or perish. It is that simple...

...unless the Palestinians suddenly change their minds and decide they want peace - but nothing has happened to indicate such a change of heart.

Israel the subject?

All the anti-semitic cooks crawl out of the woodwork.

One question: after the withdrawal from Gaza, on what grounds do the Palestinains justify firing missles into Israeli civilian areas? Rememeber, this PRECEDED the Israeli response.

Jefferson and the WP, thanks. I'm not sure it there is any solution to the Zionist hijacking of America, but if there is, it lies in educating the public about the truth of the Jewish Holy War. Our media has been blowing smoke up our collective asses for years, and this won't be undone overnight. But I for one appreciate the courage it takes to get to the truth. Thank you, again.

The existence of Israel in what the Palestinians call their homeland is the one and only reason for Middle East and worldwide terrorism. It is the fuel that fires the islamists. It is the current reason we continue to fund the Jews.

The militant Palestinians are being funded, trained and supported through Syria and Lebanon who are ultimately controlled by Iran. Iran is the worldwide strong-arm leader of the entire Muslim jihad and has shown their strength in the Middle East many times over. To think that the Palestinian militants would cease warring with Israel for any reason is a grave error. It is much deeper than the newspaper coverage of Palestinians against Jews as this article presumes.

The war on terror was not started because of Western ways taking hold in the Middle East. There are many accounts of how our commercial and military involvements in the Middle East revolve around meeting the local and religious customs. We are there to help produce (at a profit) and buy oil (as cheaply as we can). They have oil and want to sell it. We want to buy it and provide our services.

The islamist have used oil, and western ways as a supplement to recruit jhadist for the war on Israel. That is the bottom line. The war (not conflict) between Israel and the Palestinians will go on until some one is utterly defeated. The current situation is a continuation of the cat and mouse game. It is the root of the current war on terrorism and the main tool of those jhadist who believe that Islam will be the one true world religion at the cost of as many lives as necessary.

Question is, do we sacrifice Israel to end the war on terror?

What do you want?

Do you want all jews to leave Israel, their holiest of homes? Give back to the Palestinians all of the land.

Take their possessions, their wealth, their traditions, their shrines, and all that they have and leave the area for good?

Where will they go? What country will welcome them? Perhaps they should establish a new nation in Africa, carve out a position there? But then you'd find a reason to persecute them and chase them out of there.

That's what the Koran teaches, does it not?
Persecute and KILL all who oppose the sacred text. Live at peace ONLY with those of similar race/color/religious belief as your self?

Bah. What hypocrites you are. You want Israel to do this, and the Palestinians to do that, and the rest of the arab world to justify their hatred.

Live according to your religious beliefs.
Stop warring. Stop feuding. Stop the violence.

Or go to hell in a handbasket.

Who started first? The Palestinians are out to destroy Israel, most lately, with Kassam rockets. You want to complain that they hide the launchers in populated areas? You are foolish! You will all die!

I wonder if anyone can tell me that Which dictionary does the American Govt and Israeli Govt use to define the word "Terrorism".
If Israel kills a civilian family sitting on a beach enjoying food. that is not terrorism. but if Palestinians strategically attack on the military in the fight for freedom that is Terrorism. ridiculous... really funny... if US attack Iraq based on big lie and kills tens of thousands of civilians in Iraq that is not terrorism. and if an Iraqi person kills a single American soldier who is on their homeland trying to destroy their counry than that iraqi is a terrorist...
Israel and USA along with some other countries can help the world to attain global peace... but they will never do that... they will keep telling others to give up WMDs and will keep on building latest weapons themselves... you can never ask anyone else to give up something that you are not able to give yourself... because every country want to be secure...
anyways what I see is from the current situation is that few powerful countries in the world will lead this world to World War 3 .... within next 100 years... and as Einstien said "I dont know what will be used in WW3 but people will fight WW4 with stones and sticks"...
This is the time for the world super powers to wake up... History prove that decline of any super power is just a matter of time...

Let me explain it to you "Takada" If a Palestinian family sitting on a beach eating a picnic (by the way where'd you get this one from?), get blown up because sitting next to them is a guy who last week launched a Kassam rocket into Israel, THEN TOO BAD! I HOPE YOU DON'T GET BLOWN UP AS YOU CHOKE ON YOUR CHICKEN SANDWICH! Palestinians are out to destroy Israel. THAT is the first blow. Everything else is a response by Israel to protect its citizens. Understand now?

Hypocrisy is the name of the game created by our US Government.The democratically elected government by the Palestine people is being crushed by our US Gov. Why do we give the Jews a yearly credit of $3 billion , but give the Palestinians zero credit $0 . Hypocrisy Gone Wild not Girls Gone Wild !!!

Palestianians are loosers, incapable of feeding themselves. American Jews bought them greenhouses in Gaza, so they can may be produce some food for themselves. What did they use it for? To build a tunnel to Israel, to kill and kidnap!
This is exactly the problem. It is easy to win the war over Palestinians, but what to do with them next? The only think they are able to produce is suicide bombers so far.

Wow, there's some pretty creative anti-Semitism in these comments. "Jewish Holy War"? I'm almost impressed!

The broader issue, which almost nobody is willing to face, is that Western civilization is under concerted attack. (The West, for all its many faults, is the only viable civilization left in the world; even China and the other heirs of other models aspire to it.) If the barbarians win, we return to the Dark Ages; there is no other alternative on history's table.

Who are the barbarians? The answer is obvious to anyone whose brain has not been rotted out by political correctness. There are about 200 wars raging in the world today, most of them targetting civilians; and in all but a handful of them, on one side (and occasionally both sides) are Muslim extremists.

Israel is more than the canary in the coal mine of civilization; Israel is the only outpost of civilization in a sea of barbarism. This would be true even if it weren't a democracy.

The barbarians may win, because they are more willing to die than we are; and because so many Westerners have learned to hate their own culture, or do not even understand what their own culture is. They certainly do not understand what will happen to them if the barbarians win.

The positive news is that Hamas and Fatah are working together for a change, and seem to have reached some sort of agreement on the two state solution.
However I doubt that Olmert would consider any major discussions, even if the soldier was freed. Certainly , releasing prisoners in return for Israeli soldiers or their bodies is not that unusual. But, I believe that when Sharon marched around the al-Aqsa Mosque, the final "military" solution of the Israeli/Palestinian involved a confrontation with either Hamas or Arafat.
The first goal was to break the Oslo Accords, the second was to sideline Arafat who signed the Accords, and, with Arafat out of the picture, Israel would really have no one to deal with if Hamas replaced Fatah. The result would be unilateral action, and a military solution bringing Israel's big guns into play.
I believe, besides the humanitarian considerations, it would be a good idea for the Palestinians to release the soldier in order to preserve the "moral" high ground for the final "Military" solution that will occur, either through Olmert, or a future Likud Government. Olmert will let that soldier die for that confrontation. Palestinians can assume the role Polish Jews played in their "Warsaw" uprising. It will be a bloody mess.

Israel is not purposely attacking civilians as the Palestinians are and have. The problem is the terrorists launch rockets into Israel with the intend on attacking kidergartens and stores and then hide amoung the Palestinian population. Their goal is to kill as many Israeli men, women, and children and then cry foul if attacked back. The world knows they are cowards. This is clear to anyone of average intelligence.

I just hope Israel doesn't kowtow to Washington this time the way they normally do. It's time that Israel is allowed to protect itself.

Excuse me, I'm just an "ignorant" American (been called that by Israelis and Arabs), but Is releasing 300 women and CHILDREN such an uncreasonable request?

"The existence of Israel in what the Palestinians call their homeland is the one and only reason for Middle East and worldwide terrorism."

Do a little research ... you'll find, like most people, that you are completely making stuff up. The first "modern" terrorist group(s) were from Egypt.

It is very hard to reconcile the events of the past vis-a-vis Palastinians and Israelis. Each has seen their land taken away, their communities torn, and their families ravaged by War. Building walls is not the answer, targetted assasinations create a new generation even more bitter than the previous, and suicide bombings create fear and hate, which fuel the entire process further. It is clear that the two sides cannot co-exist with so much history between them. It is unclear whether there will EVER be a solution to this predicament, without a major cultural/moral shift on BOTH sides. I call this one a stalemate, now, and possibly forever.

The United States of America should use it's might to conquer the region and bring order to a place that in all the time it has been given could not make peace for itself. History will show you that the only truth in the universe is "might makes right".
God Bless America!

What should not be forgotten in all this are the basic events of the timeline; the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza should have marked the start of Gaza's revival; the agricultural hothouses, key to this, were left intact by Israel and gifted by Western benefactors. That endeavor would have provided thousands of jobs to a largely idle poulation. Instead, Gazans thought otherwise; they destroyed the hothouses, continually attacked border crossings, closing them to exports and voted in Hamas, a band committed to the perpetuation of the war at all costs. By initiating an unending barrage of rockets from civilian areas into civilian areas Hamas revealed their cowardice and brought the inevitable retribution upon their own heads. So long as the Palestinians are in the thrall of the cult of death that has become modern Islamist dogma, nothing constructive will ever be possible.

lets set things straight. no palestinian reasons for terror are truthful. this is not about occupation, about religion, culture, etc. sure, those may play a part here and there, but its really about power and control. even before israel occupied "palestinian land", the palestinians were terrorizing israel, they just had other excuses. hey u anti-zionist/semite, y don't u explain y when an arab blows up other ppl in london or spain or ny or etc., they're a terrorist, but when they blow up israelis/jews, they're freedom fighters and what else should israel expect?

message to Anon Takada:

Get your facts straight. Israel was not responsible in the killing of a family at a beach in Gaza. That was the responsibility of Hamas who planted a bombshell in the beach. I suggest that you go to www.worldnetdaily.com or www.arutzsheva.com if you want to know the truth.

may: I agree, let's not play by different rules. If state sponsored militants kill innocnet women and children and slaughter entire families, they should be punished. I mean something like that justifies some kind of response.

Who cares what these people think anymore ( palestinians, that part of the world in general ) there will never be peace in any part of that region. Israel should just level Palestine just like the U.S. should level Irag. We bomb Japan and Germany back into the stone age in WWII, WE SHOULD DO THAT NOW!!!!

Re: "Joy and exuberance". There is no end to the bloodthirsty hatefulness of the Palestinian Arabs. Americans should not forget that Palestinians in Ramallah danced in the streets and handed out candy on Sept. 11. They cheered when Saddam Hussein shot Scuds into Israel in the first Persian Gulf War. They hate the Jews and they hate America.

I could not agree more with the comments of John Schwarz.

As an American, I'm ashamed and disgusted by my country's support of Israel. Israeli policy clearly demonstrates no regard for the rights, on any level, of the Palestinians on the Palestinian land they occupy. Just because they're "more western and democratic", is this supposed to grant them some sort of higher moral ground upon which to base their systemic inhumane treatment of Palestinians?? I think not.

Israel, you've got the land you want and need, withdraw your land-robbing settlers to within reasonable boundaries and leave the Palestinians to their own destiny. Stop carving up land that does not belong to you. You are guilty of terrorist acts in massively greater proportion than those of any Palestinian group. Stop slaughtering Palestinian civilians and hiding behind hypocritical accusations that you're "dealing with terrorists, so it's ok." It's not.

My government, STOP supporting them. Israel is NO friend of the U.S. The hawks and religious zealots that drive their policies use the U.S. as a shield behind which to hide, and to gain legitimacy.

If my neighbour throws rocks through my window should I sit on the couch until he comes through my door and kills my family? No, like any sane person I would do everything possible to my home and welfare. Israel must do the same - they must make it too difficult and expensive for the Palestinins to continue their terrorist attacks. Unfortunately in this case the neighbour is a stooge for others in the region. The same countries that fund terrorist attacks on the Americans, Brits, French, Spanish and Russians. Israel is clearly not the problem.

p.s. Geobbels would be proud of some of these posts.

First of all, I would like to commend everyone on their use of spell check. Secondly, war is between old men who do not hold much more than a pen in hand and fighting is done by children and their parents, who are afraid. If you want peace, realize this first - we all want the best for ourselves. So, if you want your kids to be amputees or your mothers turned to widows over YOUR supposed war than pick up a weapon and do your worst; otherwise, destroy your own armories and do your best. You're pathetic. Why else would the world send you money (Israel and Palestine)?

It seems here that Israel is being persecuted because of several reasons:
1) The misinterpretation of the Koran that somehow says kill all who oppose your views. Not sure here...sounds kind of dangerous to have people like this around.
2) They are successful...They turn desert into forests/farms and make the most of the hot and dry area they live in. This makes them the haves...not the have nots.
3) They have shown up the others that have lived in the region. They are more powerful, effective, and resourceful than the other countries in the region. That, I am sure, produces some resentment and jealousy.
4) They stand for western society because they have democratic rule, technology based industries, and fit more into western societies than middle eastern.

We have to remember...these Palestinians...their brethren in other Islamic states have not stepped up to the plate to help them out. Might that say something too.

It should be obvious by now to anyone except the most hateful or uneducated of ignorant trolls that it is high time for the Israelis to get their comeuppance.

History has shown that they have done nothing except torture the Palestinian people and other arabs through blatant abuse of power that has been given to them by the USA in the form of free money in billions yearly, free military support, free nuclear technology and free weapons and aircraft and munitions.

It is laughable that Israel or America broker talks for peace since they are ever the instigators of war. It's like sending a pit bull to pick up your steaks. Very ignorant, very stupid.

The UN resolution that created Israel was a global mistake and right now this is a case of buyer's guilt- where the UN is far too embarassed at what have they have inflicted upon the arab peoples to admit they are wrong and this whole situation was wrong from the start- just like the formation of Yugoslavia.

You can't steal someone's land, occupy it and then subjugate the natives and kill them for sport -murder their children -without having chickens coming home to roost.

And my friends- the chickens are coming home to roost!! Enjoy the fruits of your Israeli sin- there is much to pay for. And if you are so stupid as to think Palestinians are attacking because they are mean ol crazy muslims.. well you're an idiot.

To Sick and Freaken: You are absolutely right. There was an Arab pogrom against the Jews in Hebron in 1928.

Muslims must stop killing each other and allow freedoms before complaining about Israel.
Darfur is the most glaring example of muslims killing muslims and I for one cannot practice my muslim religion in Saudi Arabia but can do so freely in Tel Aviv.
Come to the twentieth century and stop complaining.

From a standpoint of principle, Israel cannot negotiate or offer concessions. The Israeli withdrawal from Gaza is a stark example - although Israel withdrew, the rocket attacks by militant Islamists continue unabated. So much for peaceful intentions and reciprocity.

Negotiating with terrorists or offering concessions is a dangerous game. To do so only encourages more terrorist activity in the hopes of gaining more concessions. It's a never-ending flood once you open the door.

The Palestinians should accept, once and for all, that Israel is here to stay. That said, it's up to the Palestinians what kind of future they want: a peaceful coexistence with Israel or continued hardship and suffering by their own making.

To say that the puiessance of Americas eliete is a single-minded parody of freedom, and is unilatteral and yet wrought with iconaclastic hues is misleading. Appropiately, those governing, though inept to some facides of the world view, could if lequacious enough, dissiminate from their soapbox of diluded mentallity multiple forms of justification for their alliances. The differences between the esoteric or ubiquodius possesion of weapons is usually contained in the intentions to use them. If for self defense, than why hide them, in fact the display of power is a defense in itself. But if solely hidden than vutuperitave intentions are there. I don't know bout you but to sit and wait in the inertia of mortality with a blindely trustful perspective is to play russian roulete with your country.Some things arent ok to put to chance.

The "occupied territory" is only occupied because Israel was being attacked from said territory and legitimately defended itself. We now see what happens when Israel tries to give some of the territory back. Every cease fire of the history of the conflict was broken by the "so called" palestinians. Both sides make mistakes, but it is clear who started this and who keeps starting it. It is clear that even if the Israeli population disappeared, these palestinians would simply start killing each other. There can be no lasting peace with people who love only violence and death.

Lets be clear - the taking of hostages is banned under the Geneva convention. The attack was not a terrorist act (it did not target civilians) however, it was clearly an illegal act of war. Moreover, the gaza strip is no longer occupied by a single Israeli. The Palestinians had a completely open border between gaza and Egypt until they kept blowing up the border crossing, forcing it to be closed - not even the European monitors are safe to work there. They continually fire rockets at israeli population centers, deliberately murdering innocent civilians. They openly call for the destruction of Israel and claim that every imaginable act of violence or civilian massacre is a legitimate tactic.

So what is Israel to do? They have withdrawn from the "occupied" territory, and yet their soldiers and civilians are continually attacked. Which country in the world would stand by and allow these acts of violence to go unchecked and without response? Which country in the world would tolerate a neighbour calling for its destruction? Which country in the world would tolerate hundreds of rockets aimed at it civilians? Which country in the world would not use its military to respond appropriately?

I do not understand the mindset of Arabs. It is a fact they cannot live with their neighbors (if they are not Muslim). They are in process of dominating Africa where the north is being Muslim dominated--now Somalia. The only thorn in the entire mid east is Isreal,the one tiny country that is not Muslim. This gets in the way of world domination by Muslims and it drives them crazy. Even after the Gaza evacuation by Isreal, the violence with rocket firing causing Isreal to retaliate is a prime example. It is humerous when the arabs call the retaliation AGGRESSION. In other words, Isreal should just allow three hundred rockets a week fall into their territory. I cannot imagine what country in the world would allow this. It is also amazing to me that Palestianians must be spoon fed with world money to survive. They are desperate for the destruction of Isreal to get the benefits of a viable country. Isreal was a vast desolate country before Jews came there thousands of years ago. The wandering Hittites, Assyrians and others had no interest in making the area green and prosperous. Only now do the Palestinians(not even close to the original inhabitants)want something they can't do themselves. The Jews were the first, then the Romans, then the Turks then the Jordanians and British. This all originally was greater Isreal ---never the so called Palestianians. They were Isrealies until they voluntarily left in order for all the Arab countries in 1967 to try to wipe out Isreal. Now they want to come back and enjoy the good life--Ha!! Palestinians must remember they were offered a state in 1948 and refused. Even then, Jordan would not allow the Jews to pray at the western wall. Instead, the arabs used it for a urinal. They have no value for life as the rest of the world does. This is proven by bombings of innocent civilans, cutting off heads and many other barbaric atrocities. When they become civilised, then maybe they can be treated as deserving people.

This is a holy war. Israel is the home that God set aside for His chosen people from the foundations of the earth. They strayed from Him and were scattered throughout the earth but returned 2,000 years later in 1948 just as Ezekiel prophesied (Ezekiel 37) . One day all the Muslim nations will gather and attack Israel, but God will protect her and 9 tenths of the invading armies will be destroyed. Is that enough of a triumph for you?

Read Ezekiel 38-39 for more detail straight from the mouth of the True and Living God.

First, even in the could war, under the treaten of destruction of the humanity with nuclear bombes, there were negociations for the release of prisoners and/or exchange of prisoniers on both sides.
There is lots of articles on internet about the abducted soldier, but not real information: for exemple, why the israeli governement can't and/or won't release the women and the teens which it holds in prisons?
Second, if the reponse of israelis is not in proportion of what the palestinians have done, all the work done for making peace in their region will be destroyed.
They must remember that.
Thirth: for the leaders of the world: the inconditional support from some countries for the israel will call inconditional support from other countries against their opponants. Remember that if the israelis decide to do a punitive expedition in gaza because the palestinians got prisoniers in their war, something the israelis do as well.

What is forgotten, or not even taught, is that the jews are the originators of terrorism in the Middle East. Lets not forget the bombing of the King David hotel and the suitcase bombs left on railroad station platforms to drive out the British. The perpetrators of these acts are viewed as "heroes" in Israeli history, while Palestinians today, using the same tactics, are viewed as murderers.

"The Israeli withdrawal from Gaza is a stark example - although Israel withdrew, the rocket attacks by militant Islamists continue unabated. So much for peaceful intentions and reciprocity."

Joseph, Israel may have withdrawn, but they continued assassinations and daily air and ground raids into the Palestinian territories. A lot of the rockets fired into Israel was in response to an Israeli attack on Palestine. Israel cannot expect to murder civilians unchecked without angering someone.

Yet, I also agree with your point - Palestinians NEED TO STOP. They should take the initiative for peace and cease all activities. Most of the country is crippled with sanctions and impoverished, and once you reach that level of desperation, you'll do anything.

The Jews should know - they should only look within their history of Modern Israel to find out. Remember the Stern Gang's bombing/kidnapping of British soldiers? They felt that British troops were "Occupying" the land, became desperate, and fought back.

Gee, isn't that what the Palestinians are doing?

Jim: (Ignoring the fact that you start your comment with the often regurgitated, let alone irrelevant, accusation of anti-Semitism)

How about total isolation, control of land, sea, and air space, blocking of export products until they expire, withholding of money & medical supplies, and cutting up occupied territories by the wall?

Can any of these acts be enough a reason for you to understand why a person wouldn't be moved to condemn the perpetrators, and resist?

If I can use a psychological analogy: it would seem that Israeli politicians are severely abused children, re-enacting the only behaviour that they've learnt, and bullying the weaker. Isn't it odd, to say the least, that a people's who have suffered tremendously (and rarely miss the occasion to "remind" the world, and readily exploit those horrid memories for political and financial gains), subject fellow human beings to a similar, yet prolonged, form of genocide.

And if you're going to mention the succession of events to prove your point, you might want to cast your mind back to 1948 or thereabouts (readers familiar with Jethro Tull would recognize the paraphrasing of the live intro to "THICK AS A BRICK", an incidentally appropriate title, if you don't mind my adding), and "remember" the peoples terrorized and uprooted by a foreign army. You may then want to rephrase your conclusion to read: Remember, this PRECEDED the Palestinian response.

John Schwarz said it best, i believe. All other comments were very one-sided and simple-minded. The government of Israel gets away with murder constantly under the watch of the international community and when/if the palestinians seek any retribution for these atrocities, they are immediately labeled terrorists - thus further enabling Israel to carry out more un-warranted attacks and aggression. We all know this is due to different media outlets who sympathize with either side too much and therefore become biased in their journalism and thus inflame more hatred amongst their listeners. Sometimes there are "disturbing the peace" issues, amid peaceful times when there is no reason to "spook" the peace-process or "kick up dust", and I feel any side who halters a good on-going peace-process deserves to be punished. Period. Now, the Israeli government had just killed about a dozen civilians last week. Now, in turn, the palestinians have abducted one Israeli. One. Now, of course, many more palestinian families will be mourning very soon if this "one" man is not released. The "blinded" slaughter will resume as usual because "1" man is missing. Nevermind all the Palestinian children and families that were killed due to Israeli occupational oppression. Those eleven people who died last week are just old news now. All but forgotten. Just the same as all of the other civilian casualties. Now we are told the Palestinians are evil and deserve to be annhilated because they kidnapped, not killed, "1" man in return for this. This "one" man is worth more than other peoples' whole entire families. Think about it. Shalom.

If you want to know what Israel is up against, dont forget to read the Hamas founding convenant:

"The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: 'The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him...'

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

What lovely people. The funny thing is, the worse the Palestinian violence, the worse their rhetoric, the more certain people blame Israel!

Dear anti-Semitic, anti-American whackjobs:

Just remember that when the Arabs come to decapitate you, they don't do it quickly. They saw off your head slowly while you scream.

Of course, you can try reciting your tofu-head theories to them. Do you suppose that might soften them?

What a pack of fools you are.

"What do you want?

Do you want all jews to leave Israel, their holiest of homes? Give back to the Palestinians all of the land.

Take their possessions, their wealth, their traditions, their shrines, and all that they have and leave the area for good?"
Frankly, yes. Not saying they have to go anywhere, but they have to give up control of lands that were never theirs. As long as there is an Isreal, there will be strife in that area.
I know it sounds harsh to say the only real answer is the destruction of the Isreali state, but if the Palistinian state were to be destroyed refuges would seek shelter in neighboring muslim contries where terrorism/resistance (depending on your POV) will continue endlessly.
Also, isn't it funny that you mention the wealth, the shrine, etc. etc. and yet you fail to see why the Palestinian people have a problem with living in poverty next to the ulra-rich Isrealis?

"Where will they go? What country will welcome them? Perhaps they should establish a new nation in Africa, carve out a position there? But then you'd find a reason to persecute them and chase them out of there."
How about they do what every refuge in the world does, establish residence in someone else's country, rather than trying to create a country of their own on someone else's land. You act as if the Jews have some inherit right to a homeland. Unfortunatly this simply isn't how it works.

"That's what the Koran teaches, does it not?
Persecute and KILL all who oppose the sacred text. Live at peace ONLY with those of similar race/color/religious belief as your self?"
And we all know the Spanish Inquisition was done with specific instructions written in teh Bible, right?

"Bah. What hypocrites you are. You want Israel to do this, and the Palestinians to do that, and the rest of the arab world to justify their hatred."
Uhhh... what?

"Live according to your religious beliefs.
Stop warring. Stop feuding. Stop the violence.

Or go to hell in a handbasket."
Once again, uhhh... what?

I have a few questions:

When those of Jewish descent that had nowhere to go after WW2 asked the Palestinian people if they can co-inhabit land considered holy by jewish, muslim and christian people, where they turned away?

Did they ask at all before gathering military supplies and storming in?

According to the history books the land was in the hands of the jews; yet for some reason they left it. To come back thousands of years later and claim it from people that settled there without forcing the jewish people from their homes, is that morally right?

Is it any less or more moral for an organized military to target civilians than for civilians to target civilians?

If the richest and most powerful jewish people in the US weren't so entrenched with the greedy Politician's, would the US government give a crap about a tiny little piece of land so far away and worth so little in today's energy hungry world?

If the jewish state didn't exist in the middle east, who would the Arabs fight with and would they have any reason to hate the US and the western world anymore?

An anti-American wuss whackjob and an Arab man together in a room.

Whackjob: Hello, I value your culture and...

Arab: (Pulls out rusty saw)

Whackjob: Say, did you know I'm a progressive?

Arab: (Kicks him in the balls, knocks him down, and ties him up.)

Whackjob: Listen, I'm a progressive. I've read Karl Marx! I eat steamed broccoli!

Arab: (Starts sawing.)

Whackjob: ArrrrrrghEaaaaaaahh!!!

Dear Johnny:

Since when did being Anti-Semitic mean being Anti-American? I didn't know that America was a Jewish majority? But it's okay to be anti-arab, right? That's not a problem. Thanks for clarifying.

Second of all - we're discussing the actions of Palestine and Israel. We're not calling each other names. If you want to call people names, there are other forums for such things.

Disagreeing with Israeli actions does not make one Anti-Semitic. Calling someone anti-semitic does not make you invincible and suddenly allow you a free pass in any argument.

Third, please define anti-semitism. According to Wikipedia:

Anti-semitism "is hostility toward or prejudice against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group"

I don't have any hostility against or toward Jews. Simply pointing out that their actions may be the cause of their problems is not being hostile. If anything, I'd love to see the whole region prosper with friendly relations.

Last, the West is not much better with respects to treating people humanely. Strapping people to boards over water to simulate drowning is not any more humane.

I would like to point out that 5 people have died since 2000 from the homemade rocket attacks by Palistinians. 5.

More Palistinian civilians died last week, including 2 children and a pregnant mother, in attacks against these homemade rocketteers.

So what I'm hearing from these Isreali apologists is that it's ok for Isreal to kill almost double the number of civilians in one week in attacks against threats which have killed 5 people in 6 years.

More from Hamas:

Abu 'Ardh: "By Allah, I will not accept your peace, even on an inch of the land. Only traitors and dogs accept humiliation."

Al-Jazeera TV on April 21, 2006.

Look people, no one can live with Muslims, Muslims hate Jews.
Muslims hate Christians.
Muslims hate Non-believers.
Muslims hate Hindus.
Muslims hate Zoroastrians.
Muslims hate Buddhists.
...
Last but not least Muslims hate themselves; they kill each other in Iraq, Pakistan, and Iran.
Let's carve out a place on this planet for ALL the Muslims and put ALL of them there; 90% of this worlds conflict will end.

And more from Hamas' leader Khaled Mash'al:

"True, our government does not conduct resistance itself, because there is a distribution of roles - the government governs, while the factions carry out the resistance, but our government is like a large tent, which protects the mujahideen and in it they find refuge."

April 21, 2006.

Palestinian Foreign Minister Mahmoud Al-Zahhar, April 2006: "Let us renew our commitment not to neglect any of our principles: Palestine in its entirety is our land."

"This does not mean that if they withdraw from any inch of land, we will refrain from spreading our rule over it. Every inch of land without relinquishing an inch. This is our goal and our motto. We will never give it up.

American justice: you steel an egg you go to jail. Israel steels a whole nation They get 3 billion dollars a year and a tap on the back from Mr. Bush.

KJ said:

"Strapping people to boards over water to simulate drowning is not any more humane."

Not any more humane than what? Crashing airplanes into buildings with thousands of people in them? Sawing reporters' heads off? Yes, actually, it is (if one can be comparitive about such awful things) more "humane."

"Since when did being Anti-Semitic mean being Anti-American?"

They don't mean the same thing, but lately they do tend to go together. From people such as you, for example.

Don't quote a Wikipedia article to me that you could have written yourself five minutes ago. That's foolisht. Also pedantic -- we all know perfectly well what anti-Semitism is.

And on the general point, no, there's nothing logically that automtically equates anti-Israel views with being an anti-Semite. But in practice, they usually are the same thing, despite all the denials. It's a matter of focus, among other things... when was the last time you fulminated in an online forum against the Arab atrocities in Sudan? Or against the Indonesian Muslims trying to wipe out the Catholics of East Timor?

Yeah, never. I thought so. I wonder why that is?

If I can be so bold as to ask, what exactly gives Isreal the right to any land, even an inch, other than military backing from the world's superpowers? It certianly isn't the 2000 years they spent NOT LIVING THERE.

If someone took 20 dollars out of your wallet, would you be happy if they had left you the other 200 dollars you had in there? No, you wouldn't. You would do everything in your power to get your money back, stopping at nothing, not even violence if you thought it could give you back your property.

Mankind - Islam = World Peace

here is how the palestinian government justifies murder and massacres:

Umm Nidal, Palestinian Legislative Council, Feb 2006: "This is resistance, and nobody can say otherwise, no matter what methods are used. All methods are legitimate in resistance against the occupier

"Allah be praised, we have thousands of young men. They all yearn for martyrdom for the sake of Allah. Some of them even cry when they do not get the chance to commit martyrdom. As long as we have such determination, we will prevail, Allah willing"

"A Muslim mother should raise her children.. on Jihad."

"Jihad in Islam is a duty that one cannot forego. It is like any other religious duty. If we understand the true meaning of Islam, the notion of Jihad will be included among the Islamic duties, and in Palestine - an individual duty. If we are remiss in this duty, we sin."

"The existence of Israel in what the Palestinians call their homeland is the one and only reason for Middle East and worldwide terrorism."

"Do a little research ... you'll find, like most people, that you are completely making stuff up. The first "modern" terrorist group(s) were from Egypt.
Posted by: TiredOfIgnorance"

Your response references the start of modern terrorism. You are correct that it started in Egypt in the mid twenty century. However my post is about the current situation regarding the global war on terrorism and states the current jihad is based on the existence of Israel in the Arab world.

I got a 100 bucks that says, within 24 hours this message board is overrun with comments from JINSA members, calling everyone who decries U.S. support for Israel, an ANTI-SEMITE.

Newsflash: If i disagree with America's 100% support for Israel, it does not then follow that I hate jews.

It seems to me that ownership of the disputed land has been in dispute for many hundreds of years. Each side thinks it's theirs. Whether we think the situation is right or wrong doesn't matter ... the point is moot. Israel has the land, they aren't going to give it up, and that's that. The Palestinians lost the land and are wasting their time crying about it. They should accept the reality of the situation and get on with their lives. All of their attempts to "get back" at Israel only ends up hurting the Palestinians in the long run.

Exactly.

You can be anti-Israel without being anti-Semitic. Jews are a people. Israel is a country with a government and military. Stop being retarded.

"I would like to point out that 5 people have died since 2000 from the homemade rocket attacks by Palistinians."

so because the palistinians brought a knife to the gunfight they started...

and do you suppose the families of those 5 Israelis would understand if their government just shrugged and said "Well, it was ONLY 5 citizens. We should just let it go..."?

With the way things are going, within 20 years, there will be nuclear fallout over the whole area ... then nobody will want the land.

>>"...democratic humane Israel and the violence- prone terroristic entity which is the 'Palestinian Authority'."

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!! Best laugh I've had all year!!! **<8-))

"so because the palistinians brought a knife to the gunfight they started..."

I love how the Isreali apologist switch between arguments. First they have the right to kill innocent palistinian civilians, children and pregnant woman mind you, because they don't do it intentionally. Now, it's a matter of might makes right.

"and do you suppose the families of those 5 Israelis would understand if their government just shrugged and said "Well, it was ONLY 5 citizens. We should just let it go..."?"

So what you are saying is that the Palistinians should just let it go. Is it because you see them as less than human or is it the whole "knife to a gun fight" thing?

As long as innocent Palistinians suffer in squalor and poverty, oppressed by a foreign nation, there will be no peace for Isreal. This is a sad truth, and nothing will change until the Isreali nation no longer exists.

So you all think that the problems of the Middle East will be solved by ceding land to Palestinians? That's not only naive, it's downright dangerous.

Let me make it simple for all who don't understand: The Arabs are not fighting for land and justice. They are fighting to spread Islam and the rule of Sharia law through every corner of the world. They will not stop until Israel is completely destroyed, then they will march on to conquer Europe, and then on to the US and beyond.

Israel is just now getting a taste of what will happen in the future if they cede any additional territories to the Arab-Moselem-Palestinians (or whatever you like to call them).

As soon as the Israelis quit Gaza, they had rockets landing in their schools and living rooms, and now we have cross-border incursions by Islamic rats who dig kilometer long tunnels under the border.

The entire Gazan border is only about a dozen miles long, imagine what would happen if Israel ever agreed to pull back to the 1948 armistice line known as the Green line. That would create a winding, convoluted border of 200+ miles, leaving 60% of Israeli Jews living in a narrow 10-mile coastal between the Mediterannean and the mountains of the Green-line. Multiply by 20+ the amount of trouble and heartache that Israelis will suffer from rockets, missiles and whatever stuff the Palis and their Islamic allies manage to bring in!

So to all of you in the "give them everything they want and they'll leave us alone" camp, consider this: If you give them what they want then you'll soon be reading the Koran with your morning coffee rather than the Washington Post.

i am not a jew but I would have been if I could. I am Cuban and my spelling in english is not that good,for that i am sorry, but this discusion is not about my spelling.

Thisis in response to John Swartz - most likely a neonazy or some Abdula Muhammad -islamonazy.

**1. "Democratic humane Israel."

It might be news to you but the palestinian Authority was democraticaly elected by the palestinians, and no israely sponsored candidate was running. Israel-Arabs do prticipate in voting and as a fact they have representation in the Knezet (parlament). in the interest of national security of israel some civil rights of the Arab-Israelis are limited, every nation dose thatin times of crisis. Ask the Armenians in IRAN, or the kurds in Turky, irish in belfast, etc.. That dose not mean tht the country is not a democratic country. Hisory Lesson #1: The State as institution exist primary to ensure safty of the mojority of its Citizenary from extermnal threats. Therefore national security is a number one function of the state. Al the liberties, rights and etc... Are a seconday function and will sucomb to the national security. Humain israel -YES. We dont see mass deportation of the Arabs to the palestinian teritoies. If an Arab can live pesefully and contribute to the society of israel he will be welcome in israel. Hell, he will be welcome anywere. Unfortunately for the Arabs tehy build them selfs reputation for being slyzy and sniky, and to have an afinity for blowingup themself in order to get to paradise where the virgins are standing in line to copulate with them. If the palestinians would stop the blaming game and start rebuilding their country thaty would have prosper from the booming economy of Israel.

**2. "Humane Israel." AND **3. "removal of eight- thousand people from their homes."

Swartz, you could not give a better example of israels humanity. After all set and done, I would cut the water and the electricity 50 years ago, for the simple reason that they dont have to support the livehood of the people who started the first Arab-Israel war. If you ask me i would have move all the Palestinian from Gaza to the West bank.Eliminating the two front situation. But not israel, its to humain to uproot the families and separete people from its land. i know, I know, you thinking "How about all those uprooted in the occupayed teritories and the demands of the right to return?" Wellhere its time 4 lesson in history #2 The israelies never deported the palestinins, in the history records they flu they houses (in front of the jews counter offencive in the war) in fear of retribution from the israel on masacres that the arabs perptrated on jews. They where well founded, the jews just have survived the genoside, and were not about to let it slide easy, specialy becouse the arabs historicaly cooperated with nazy (they saw in that the oportunity to get from under the british ocupation; and we all know the nazy - jewish history chapter). With all the money the israel, USa, Europe and palestinian diaspora abroad has sent to the PA they should have rebuild they teritiries to a sustanialy advance society. But the Arab natinal caracter and culture will play a dirty joke on the the palestinias. Corup leders stole their money, and sent the iliterate to fight the war they did not belive in. The PLO stop fighting when was offered money and power by the West. What happen to the CAUSE OF FREEDOM?

**4. "Israel aims in all its military operations to limit civilian casualties."

As we establish, Israel responsability as a state are primarily to its citizenz. So if it takes 2000 of them to safe 1 of ours, then it should be done. In any country, if the citezenary dosent see the will an the ability of the central power to defend them - revolutions(military coups) are bound to happen. With that in mind, now we can think about other people consearns. look, as i mention israel should have move all Gaza population to the West bank. I wuld buldoze the whole Gaza t the point that there are no buildings there if they keep firing rockets at israel. Human life has a price in palestina, but that price was set by the Hamas, and other Islamonasys. If you remmber Sadam husain was sending 10K to families so call "martyers". 10K go a long way in palestina, 10,000 would take a family out of the missery in palestina. How humain is by the Arab leaders t advance their own cause, on the backs of the palestinin peopel? Then again, if the hamas choose to plce the Ksan rockets in the middle of the olive plantation or the back alley of the neiborhod, obviously the response from israelies will affect alot of civilians. Gaza its a hot bad of palestinns terorism, and israel has the menas to get them all at once, but the human price its going to be to high.

**6. "the violence- prone terroristic entity which is the 'Palestinian Authority'."

oh my god, you are so anti israeli that yuo hate israel just becouse .... that has a name in history.

The teritories were ocupayed as aresponse to the agresion, you got that part right. As such every country have teritories that are ocupayed, how do you think (russia got so big, or china, or Engalnd, or canada, or brazil, or india, or Iran : you name it - it happen). The reality was that the arabs were trying to exterminate the state of Israel, and the land mass it had was so small that it was easy to overun (almost happen). Those so caled "ocupayed territories" are both abargening chip in negotiation - peace 4 land - and are integar part of the state of israel, As it would have been clamed by any other state. Israel has return land (10 times of teh size of israel itself) to Egept for a promiss of peace. Egept stick to its part of the deal and that is why they have relatively good belateral relationships. Jordan got some lands backaftr peace treaty. Syria dose not wana sighn any peace treaty so they got nothing. Lebanon got some 99% of ocupayed land back. What was the formula - peace treaty.

What is that the jews are the best @ as a culture and historicaly? @ Trading. Lesson # 3 War is bad for trading. Israel is more interested in trading with its naiborghs thatn fighting them. Trading that is how nations get reach. With the size of economy of israel they could easely became a richest nation in the region. That would generate more jobs and benefit every level of society. Even the palestinians.

Anotehr lesson in history is from India. Lesson #4. How did india manage to get its independance from Egland? Was ther a war? A bloodshed? No. It, was very simple. Wille the hindus were not willing to live under the british rule, there were also a strong movemet with in side Britans ruling calss and middle class to let India go its own way. That only was posible with in democratic society where human values, life and dignity are in high regard. How is that aplicable to Israel, you might ask? Simple. the only reason the Gaza and West bank exist as ateritory is becouse israel never pretended that is theirs by right. The PA exsist only becouse israel allowed to exist. israel allowed to exst becouse voices like yours do have value and are being heard, but by same token do not asumme that your voice is the only one that reflects the reality and aspiration of the state and peopel of israel, and therefore has a monopoly to the truth.

with the latest "intelectual and historical" barages from iran about the holocast and israels right to exist; with support provided by the IRAN to hamas and hasbula, I say keep te teritories as anegotiating tool. Kepp the palestinians as hostages to the iran nukes, undermine arab anti israel unity on the bases of trade. Dont let any body samll or big push you arround, be loyal to yur real friends (USA).

The reality is that this conflict is as old as the East West relations exist. And Israel is the outpost of civilization (democracy) in that region.

The Arab / Jewish issue is much larger then gaza or the westbank. Lets assume the jews and arabs will not live in peace, put aside any other fact then that. ask yourself this. the arabs have manyy places they can call home,the jews only have one place to call home. do you think the arabs should be allowed to take jewish land, land historiclly that is jewish land.

Even if you are a jew hater which allot of you are. ask yourself this. As a person that is a follower of jesus who do you perfer control your holy city. the jews or arabs. before you jump on the answer think about it carefully. when was the last time you heard of an arab that respected anyone of other faiths.

STFU (code for... what exactly?) -

You're wrong. While it is possible to criticize Israel without being antisemitic (people do it all the time), there is no question that it is antisemitic to take a position which is consistently anti-Israel no matter what the issue or circumstance.

If you single out the only Jewish country for unique condemnation, if you take a trait or action that is widespread and blame only the Jews for it .... that is antisemitic.

And should you expose yourself as an antisemite, Jews have the right -indeed, the obligation- to voice their objection.

I'm glad that Thanks and Glider have had their opportunity to express their true beliefs:

Jews should all die

Isreal should be sacrificed

Think about this Jewish apologists - you won't find any friends among people who hate you. The knives are sharpened, a new holocost awaits - will you sit idly by, will you actually _help_ those who want you to DIE?

Every Palestinian attack (with few exceptions) is aimed at civilians. Every Isreali attack is aimed at terrorists, but sometimes will kill civilians by accident.

These accidents are investigated and people are held to account for making mistakes.

Do you think the terrorists operate in this open and civil manner? Do they risk prison if they wantonly kill women and children?

Quite the opposite, their families are financially rewarded for killing women and children and God rewards them with virgins (or grapes, depending on the translation).

If you can't tell the moral difference between these two positions, then YOU should die and be sacrificed so the rest of us can eliminate the terrorists and live in peace.

I would like the religion that sees Jesus as a prophet to control the Holy Land, which actually happens to Islam, not Judaism. There are a good percentage of jews who do not even acknowledge the existence on Christ.

You know, Shalom Freedman, your post about the dear humane lovely Israelis is good for a big belly laugh. Still, one gets irritated at the idiocy. Israel slaughters and assinates and bombs and bulldozes at will, cilvilians and whatever, but calls on the international community when the
Palestinians make one raid and capure one soldier. Of course you don't fool anyone. No one is that dumb.

LOL. All this rigmarole over one of the tiniest geographical pieces of land on the planet! Heyzoos Kristo! And the Zionists just LOVE to talk SO tough [The 90 pound weakling now shouts like the bully on the beach!] Most amusing. I've never heard so much hatred of a religion (Islam) on a thread in my entire life! They even talk smack better than "The Base," as Al Qaeda likes to call themselves. Well, check this out, boys and girls, and listen REAL close to what the God Of War has to say....

Seems to me that America is spending WAY too much of our hard earned tax money on a bunch of nonsense that does not even help us economically anymore. We invaded and, unlike the Soviets back in the day, conquered Afghanistan. We officially scared Pakistan and the rest of the other "Muslim" nations into line, despite the fact that they already have a proven nuclear weapons arsenal. We took over Iraq and its oil, fair and square; so now do not need Israel as an ally in the region anymore. Simple fact. Our only concern now is draining all of the oil out of the region to feed our VERY profitable war machine before China can get to it all and try and do the same. China is our only truly viable up and coming adversary. [Just in case anyone is unclear on OUR actual history as a country: Every conflict we have seen fit to bother ourselves with since WWII has basically been target practice to show off and sell our old and mothballed weapons, as we are always designing new weapons systems 20-30 years ahead of the curve. We outspent the Soviets, and kicked their rear in the cold war, so petty little issues like Iran and such are actually of no concern to us, in the big picture. We may lose a city or two to terrorism, but the United States of America is pretty much impregnable to any actual attempted military conquest, so deal. Learn it, live it, love it. :) ]

Furthermore, both the Israelis and the Palestinians just can't seem to learn to play nice and live together like good neighbors. Pretty damned amusing, seeing as they both trace their legendary patrilineal descent back to the same dude (Abraham, or some such geezer). Point being, is that if this keeps up at this rate, with no end in sight, perhaps we should just "accidentally" drop a couple of very large and horrifically beautiful neutron bombs on the entire area. "Kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out," as our Devil Dog marines used to joke about. And if anyone else gives us any lip, we'll just glasspile them too. It is of no concern to us. We'll just slap on some Hazmat / radiation suits, and come and extract all the oil and other resources out of the glass pile in the blast zone.

We did it to the Japanese when they refused to play nice, so don't think we won't do it to you, whomever "you" are who are reading this. We don't give two shakes about the Israelis, or the Palestinians, or any other people or tribe for that matter - we only care about our own.

Yup, that's right.
We are the ugly Americans.
And we're itchin' for a fight, seeing as the Soviets couldn't hack it and tucked tail and ran.
Ugly and mean, we are, and violent too boot.
But so what. Suck it up.
Cause if we don't like ya', we just might come nuke ya'. And our nukes don't discriminate. They kill everyone equally. ;)
So play nice, kiddies, ALL of you, lest you tick us off and summon our alter-ego avatars of death, and turn us all once again into:
THE GODS OF WAR.

TO M. Jenkins: You're right, no place in the world would accept Israelis. Because of the way they behave. Have behaved, are behaving. Savages. Good grief, does that tell you nothing? Should maybe give you a clue.

"I'm glad that Thanks and Glider have had their opportunity to express their true beliefs:
Jews should all die
Isreal should be sacrificed-Posted by: daily_cuz"

I did not say the Jews should all die. I said it came down to defending Israel or not. It is a choice that involves American lives. If we do not defend them it would go a long way in ending the war on America and the West. As a country we do not put much effort in defending any other countries, i.e. Africa, South East Asia, South America, although our govenment will write them an angry letter and so will the UN. Does anyone know why the US puts so much effort into helping Israel, or should I say working for peace in the Middle East and not putting the same effort into the other warring countries of the world? That's a real question if your wondering.

Personal I think the Jew are doing a great Job defending their country. I have nothing against them.

Whoever posted about Arabs sawing off peoples heads slowly when they decapitate, has it exactly right: These ARE barbarians. They are attacking Israelis because they WANT to destroy Israel, then they complain when Israel responds. If Canada lobbed Kassam rockets into Upstate New York, no one would find it justified. But the idiots of the world do! Arabs decapitate, because they are sickos. Soon they'll start doing it to each other. At least that will decrease their sick numbers.

Why can't Israel protect itself from the dirty Arab hordes? Someone please explain.

If Moslems behead decapitate kidnap and kill in the whole world, what good is their religion? It is evil.

Eric preaches to us about how superior he is, and how he, unlike the rest of us, "is a thinking person". That feeling of superiority is typical of the Erics of the world--and misplaced as is evident in his childish pronoucments.

Personally I think that Israel has show good restraint.

The gloves comming off will make for a better show for all of us armchair war monger Americans.

There is an old chant that I heard growing up (not endorsing it) but I think it sums up how all this will go down...

fight fight **** and a white **** wins, we all join in.

I expect as much.

Best of luck to you in the up comming battle.

The "Erics" of this world know where the Arab world is coming from, and it isn't a very nice place.

Yaeli. Don't you know yet? Fling around the term "antisemetic" all you wish. It carries no sting, no fault. Overdone to the point of idiocy. Furtherore, Most of the world is anti semitic. Do you never wonder why? Never?

First of all "most of the world is Antisemitic" is a ridiculous comment. Secondly, the Jews are the chosen people. People have instinctively seen them as separate and special dating back now 5,000 plus years. This people has a home called Israel. It should not be attacked by its own residents anymore than any country would tolerate such attacks.

When Israel DOES take the gloves off, it will not be pretty. Flattening Gaza's apartment buildings should look better, for starters. Maybe then the decapitators and assorted other barbarians will think twice about attacking their neighbors.

Jesus probably wouldn't approve of this.

"Eric preaches to us about how superior he is, and how he, unlike the rest of us, "is a thinking person"

Will you please do some thinking and actually post a response to what I wrote?

I think I stated my case clearly.

If you disagree that Islamicists seek world domination, please provide some supporting evidence to the contrary.

Thank You

Eric, who could disagree with what you wrote? Islamists are out to destroy, to kill. Just open your eyes and read the news in ANY part of the world each morning!

Since 1966 I have visited (first as a student and later professional) the entire Middle East, including both Gaza/West Bank and Israel and quite frankly my sympathy is with the Palestinians rather than the Israelis ( I am European Jew myself). In 1947 for the Western World (USA, guilty-feeling West Europeans - especially Hitler Germany, United Nations, etc.) to arbitrarily give a coastal section of Palestine exclusively to primarily European Jews was a grave mistake (thru, we all stumble when we feel guilty!). In that part of the world a natural evolving blend of Moslems, Islam, Jews, Christians, etc. had been a reality for thousands of years. It was working just fine in Palestine before WW2 as it still does in other Arab Countries - most of the Jews lived in Haifa, Tel Aviv, and Jerusalem and were active in business, trades, etc. and integrated well with other religions and cultures. However the way a new Israel in 1947, consisting primarily of European Jews who never had set foot in the Middle East before, was suddenly forced on the simple but proud Palestinians is never going to work - they lost land, their homes, respect, etc. South Africa had a similar problem but fortunately some 20 years ago, with a bit of pushing from both Presidents De Klerk and Nelson Mandela, things came back to reality. Something similar is very urgently needed in the Israel-Gaza-West Bank Region. If not, the problem is bound to rapidly spread to other parts of the Middle East.

In response to "Mercy Beat", who wrote:

"First of all "most of the world is Antisemitic" is a ridiculous comment. Secondly, the Jews are the chosen people. People have instinctively seen them as separate and special dating back now 5,000 plus years. This people has a home called Israel. It should not be attacked by its own residents anymore than any country would tolerate such attacks.

Posted by: Mercy Beat | June 27, 2006 05:12 PM"

Are you serious?
HA! Just over 100 years ago, my own Native American ancestors lost their environmentally pristine and relatively peaceful ancestral home of over 10,000 years to a bunch of hairy war-loving barbarian invaders from the Eastern Hemisphere. Yet do you think we would be justified in "killing whitey," and taking back our continent, and indeed our entire hemisphere after a 500 year campaign of invasion, occupation, colonization, and genocide?
NO.
Of course not.
We adapted, and interbred with them, and taught them our ways, [like how to sneak up on the English and kill them native style ["He who strikes and runs away, lives to kill another day"], or how to form a union of equal states [modified after the famous Iroquois Confederacy]], which they then utilized in their military and government with unprecedented success among all nations in all of history. :)

So what makes you Zionists and your lapdogs think that you are more justified in reclaiming your ancestral land, after being duly defeated and absent from the land after not 1 or even 5, but 30 centuries ???!!! (or 20 centuries for those of you who mark your absenteeism from getting your junk served to you by the Romans)?

Nothing. That's what. The god of the hebrews is no more important or less important than the gods and goddesses of the Native Americans, or the Hindus, or any other goddess or god, and here in the US, we try (for the most part) to treat all religions and gods equally.
Point being is that the Jews forfeited their claim to ancient Judea / Israel when they left it the last time. 2 millennia ago. You can't just walk away from a marriage with the land, leave it vacant for two thousand years, and then expect to come back and pick up where you left off as if nothing happened. That's not just arrogant or misguided. That's insane.

And one last point:
If ANYONE or any group of people always goes around telling everyone they met that they are "the chosen people," of "the one true god," then they are GOING to attract some less than diplomatic responses. That's not anti-semitism, that's just human nature. No one like a braggart. Particularly ones who try and hide behind the skirts of their as-yet-to-reveal-himself god. Grow up. And get real. Ya'all bring that hatred on yourselves by being so arrogant. That, and your almost collective insistence on trying to bring attention to your supposedly superior intellects and accomplishments. And in truth, the Jews have founded some really fascinating movements: like Communism, for instance, which has killed over 60 million people since it ran its murderous way through Russia, China, and the rest of the world last century. That's TEN TIMES more than ALL the people holocausted by the Germans in WWII (including not just Jews, mind you, but gays, gypsies, Poles, Eastern Europeans, etc.). So, yeah, thanks guys. Rrrreal nice of you. Couldn't have done it without being bankrolled from capitalist friends in New York, either, eh? Cute. Good ole Trotsky and his buddies. I hate Communism. And most everyone in America who grew up with me does as well. So, gee, why would anyone get upset at the instigators of a demented political philosophy that led to a 60 million man genocide across all of Asia and beyond? Not to mention the usual allegations of war-profiteering engaged