Gotta love completly biased stories

Personally, I'm sick and tired of US support for Israel. Israel has become a ball and chain around America's neck. I think it's time to cut the ball and chain loose.

I am not sure why the western world gets so outraged by a misfired shell that kills a few civilians. The terrorists routinely and deliberaly slaughter busloads of women and children without any press outrage atall. Wierd how we expect so much more from civilized people than we do from barbarians.

Juan Cole is irresponsible in not discussing much about the prologue to the Israeli military's bombing of civilians on a Gaza beach earlier in the month, which involves Hamas not acknowliging Israel's right to exist.

Juan Cole said:
The U.S. media coverage of the ongoing Israel incursion into Gaza "has been irresponsible in not covering much about the prologue to the present violence, the Israeli military's bombing of civilians on a Gaza beach earlier in the month."

Heard it best on the radio last night.

If there were no weapons in Palestine, there would be no war. If there were no weapons in Israel, there would be no Israel.

I agree with Cole. That's why we should be talking about the rocket attacks from Gaza that led to the shelling in the first place. Even if the Israeli military is shown to be reponsible for the Palestinian family's death on the beach, it was an accident. Palestinian rocket attacks are designed to kill civilians, pure and simple. Leave it to Cole to not understand the difference.

"if there were no weapons in palestine there would be no war."

Joe - There is no war now. A war implies a more or less equal footing between two combatants. What is going on in Palestine is wholesale slaughter of an occupied people. Condoned by America, of course. And you wonder why the "terrorists" have issues with us.

To: Juan Cole

Your comments are correct. It appears that the media never antagonizes Israel.
This may reflect not only on Liberals in general but also of those that are Jewish. The two are synonymous. One could also conclude that liberals and Democrats are also one and the same.

The world know the Palestiniens terroristes and others in Afganistan, Timor etc... kill civiliens intentionally, kidnap them and somtime behead them. Israel does not target innocent civiliens, but in any war, innocent peoples are in the path of death. I remember word war 2.
My comment will not change anybody thinking, poeple just know.Please do not reply.

More apparent innocent victims of this Lunacy that seems to go on without end. Neither the Palestinians or the Israelies are without blame, and its time for this to stop.

Both need to recognize that this issue will not be solved by force, its time to accept the facts and recognize the futility of this whole exercise.

You don't have to love or even like each other, but for the sake of the innocents, learn some tolerance.

You both have the right to exist peacefully, all you need now is the intelligence to embrace this right, and find a way. Certainly, a great change in attitude is necessary. How can people live in peace when their avowed intent is to destroy each other.

Step back, use some common sense, ignore the radicals on both sides, and Give Peace a Chance.

This is about the third time Jafferson Morley has hinted on how the U.S media ignores or downplays stories about palestinian deaths but is quick to highlight Israeli deaths. But once again, he does not explore that question. In his article he also seems to suggest that the European press was somewhat evenly divided: not at all. The European papers that examined the evidence felt it was highly likely that the shells were israeli. It seems Israel is untouchable in the media and in the political sphere.

As long as we're viewing news with a more comprhensive prologue..... my undertsanding is that Israel dragged it's citizens, kicking and screaming, out of Gaza. There is not ONE Israeli left in that "territory". Left on their own, the Gazans have done NOTHING to create a better life for themselves except elect a terrorist government and lob 500 missiles into Israel. Thought a little "prologue" might be helpful.

What a one sided view point !!! if you truely want to be fair about the arab views, just look at what is happening in Dafur. Hundreds of thousands have been killed, hundreds have been raped and tortured by arab muslims..This is still going on daily.. Yet, not a word from the arab league.. Why not report that???

Your one sided liberal reporting only gives shelter to this GENOCIDE !!!

It is really sick. I doubt so called Americans remember that they also invaded and killed native Americans who can say USA is their promised land.

Yes, and the Arab media is so honest and unbiased itself. Maybe if the Palestinians didn't delight in torturing and killing and then saying it was a glorious event done as the will of god people would think of them as more than the savages they act like. Every day these innocent, misunderstood savages fire rockets into Isreal. One guy was proud it was his rocket that hit a school. These are the people we are supposed to feel sorry for? Let them all rot in their "heaven" with their god Allah. They are animals and deserve to be treated as such.

exelent artickle,i hope that we shall see more of this kind of journalism .i saw the coverage in the middle east,and i felt the pain,i hope this kind of realization by the print meidea in america will free their press from ZIONISM

Your article is titles "World Opinion Roundup", but your content doesn't seem to include an equal sampling of worldwide opinion. Why is that?

Hmmmm...

Americans are being DRENCHED IN ISRAELI PROPAGANDA... Why is this story on PAGE A20 of today's WASPost???

Funny how Cole's article doesn't mention the Hamas members who were seen digging up mines out of the beach after the Ghalia family was killed by an explosion, mines that were place there after Israeli commandos came ashore on that same beach to raid a Quasan Rocket factory. The unwillingness of the arab "street" to face their own complicity in the slaughter of their own people is a major factor in the dynamics of violence. Sensational journalism tailored to feed the Arab conspiracy-theory mindset is another.

Am truly annoyed with Western World's Palestine/Israel analysis about who killed who first. This has been going on since 1947 and will never stop. Rather than always arguing about this "Square 2" let's get back to "Square 1": why did the Western World force the Palestinians of their land and give it to European Jews - because Europe first killed many in Hitlers Concentration Camps and then didn't know how to make survivors feel welcome again in their own country? Do the Arabs then pay the price. Doen't make sense!

Perhaps if Palestinian Arabs:

1) accepted the the partition offer for their own state in 1948
2) not attacked Israel in '67, '73, blah blah bla
3) not been kept in UN refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, by their Arab brothers for 50 yrs
4) not had the corrupt Arafat pimping his wife in Paris
5) accepted the Barak/Clinton offer
6) not accepted support from Saddam Hussein, Iran, Syria
7) not elected Hamas
8) embraced the Gaza withdrawl with some reward for territorial conccessions
9) not fired countless Qassams into Israel
10) not kidnapped and killed Israelis

they would get better press

This is terrorism. It doesn't matter to the person who was killed if some American armchair Zionist calls it a "mistake." They're still dead.

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/news/newswire.php/news/reuters/2006/06/21/world/palestinian-woman-killed-in-israeli-air-strike.html

Palestinian woman killed in Israeli air strike

Tiscali - Jun 25 5:02 PM
GAZA (Reuters) - One woman was killed and 13 other Palestinians were wounded on Wednesday in what appeared to be the latest in a series of botched Israeli missile strikes against Gaza militants, witnesses said.

THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WAR AND COLD BLOODED MURDER.

Israel has never captured and killed a single Palestinian in cold blood. Worst case they go to jail. This is whats called a democracy. The only innocent Palestinians that die are the ones that are stupid enough to stand next to the terrorists when they get killed.

On the other hand, Palestinians have captured and killed many Israelis and American's in cold blood. This is whats called a terrorist controlled state.

See the difference? Democracy. Terrorist state. Democracy. Terrorist state. Not very difficult people.

This is why the U.S. rightfully sees Hamas as a terrorist entity. Even Japan cut off money to Hamas cause they know the kind of animals these people are.

END OF DISCUSSION!!!

Thank you, Dan. Oh, here's a quarter... Go buy a clue.

PfP

Hey Juan! Before you think you know everything about people you should get your facts straight about why Israel does what it does. After watching this video, you name me ONE country that would put up with this b*llsh*t!!

http://inhonor.net/videos/uped/fl_video.php?f_num=186500

I grew up in Lebanon in the early eighties and I've experienced and heard about the atrocities that were perpetrated by the Palestinian Authority under the leadership of Yasser Arafat against those who did not share similar religious and ethnic backgrounds or views.

To this day, I take everything the Palestinian Authority and it's posse with a grain of salt to say the least.

Nonetheless, I would expect the media to cover all sides in the conflict equally by allowing each side to provide their version of the story.

I am a huge news junkie and I read papers from across the globe. I must say the coverage of the Middle East conflict has been more balanced in Israel than in the United States.

I just wish the American media would put more effort into covering this conflict more objectively, if anything, this would give more credibility to the opinions of the many of us that believe the Palestinian Authority continues to lack the strategic skills, authority, and will to guide the creation of a peaceful and sustainable Palestine. Who knows, this could probably push Americans of Palestinian descents to lobby for a new leadership that could bring prosperity and peace to Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. Hopefully, I am not waiting for Godot!

The truly ironic thing about this is that it is all being done in an effort to sustain the ragged remains of the Israeli settler movement in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. The actions and beliefs of the leaders and proponents of the settlers have caused many in the Israeli army to balk and even disobey orders because they find the situation so offensive.

And while it is admirable and expected that any army would do whatever it could to retrieve one of it's soldiers, it must be sickening for many Israelis to realize that after all of the horrible things it might take to get him back have transpired, he will either be sent out again to stand in a circle of human targets around a group of people who have built homes on another countries soil and whose actions and beliefs make the KKK look like the NAACP in comparison, or be sent out to shell the most densely populated place on the planet and then claim that the "enemy" is using human shields when Israeli artillery hit numerous innocent men, women, and children.

Only America can put an end to this madness by cutting off the 3 to 6 billion dollars a year that it takes to cover the massive shortfall caused by the occupation and settlement movement. Cut off the funding and diplomatic/military support and the Isrealis will have little choice but to withdraw from the occupied territories. This will speed up the peace process, create truely defensible borders for Israel, Boost both the US and Israeli standing in the world at a time when we both really need it and bring the US back to the Moral Highground, where we belong.
It would also be in keeping with longstanding American policy regarding the settlers.

J

Now that all the Palestinian factions have agreed to Israel's right to exist, its about time for all the Israelis and their supporters all over the world to acknowledge the right of Palestine to exist -- which has been the root of the problem for the last 60 years.

Perhaps if Israel never tried to

1. Send Missile attacks in densely populated Urban areas

2. Indiscriminately shell Palestinians.

3. Indiscriminately destroy critical civilian infrastructures.

4. Create an Apartheid wall

5. Arbitrarily set conditions to which the Palestinian Authority has neither the means nor the incentives to accomplish

6. Arbitrarily decide whom within the PA they can compromise with

7. Regard the Palestinians with contempt

The Peace process would have been a lot easier to kick off. If memory served it was an ultranationalist Jew who killed Rabin, the only Israeli Prime Minister who actually took the Palestinian Peace Process seriously

To Greg D

The factions have NOT recognized Israel's right to exist. This is totally untrue.

Bottom line: the number of women and children that could die as a result of the bombing of that power plant could exceed the total number of those that have (and ever will die) in Israel.

Both sides have committed horrible atrocities, but history may prove this to be the Palestinian conflict's biggest to date. Those who defend it should be ashamed, because they are defending an obvious act of genocide.

Perhaps if Hamas and every other jihadist outfit, following in the path of Mohammed and "striking terror into the hearts of the unbelievers" as the Koran commands them to do, did not surround themselves with civilians while launching their attacks against the kaffir (unbelievers) then less Muslim civilians would be killed. Juan Cole is nothing but a shill for Islamic jihadist groups and the terror they sow, and for the Post to ignore this fact speaks volumes.

There is an ongoing worldwide conflict between western democracy and Islam. This involves all of western Europe, Africa, Middle East, and South America. Israel remains the bulwark against the incursion in the Middle East and is the single best ally the U.S. currently has in the world. Hamas dared a military invasion of Israel, Israel must respond in force. Now that Hamas is a "government" it must act responsibly or face the consequences.

John -

"I agree with Cole. That's why we should be talking about the rocket attacks from Gaza that led to the shelling in the first place."

We SHOULD be ! We should ALSO be talking about the unprovoked assasinations & helicoptor gunship attacks on Hamas members (AND the associated civilian casualties) AFTER Hamas declared a cease fire 3-4 years ago ( And STOOD by it ! ).

Israel used the resulting "lull" to advance it's terroristic aims, and the rocket fire was a direct result of Israel's terroristic actions !

And the Israeli Government? Should not they also be required to act responsibly? They've been in power much longer than Hamas.

To Thom,

My mistake. There is no war. I'll correct...

If there were no weapons in Palestine, there would be no hostile actions from Israel. If there were no weapons in Israel, there would be no Israel.

You said, "What is going on in Palestine is wholesale slaughter of an occupied people. Condoned by America, of course. And you wonder why the "terrorists" have issues with us."

If Israel wanted Palestine gone they could wipe it off of the map, pave over it, and open a few 4 star resorts by morning. Their compassion and desire for peace (along with diplomatic pressure from the "evil" US) are the only reasons this does not happen.

One side pulled its own people out of settlements. The other has the stated objective of the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews. One side shells and blows up civilian, while the other side targets threats. Please sell your moral equivalence somewhere else.

4. Create an Apartheid wall

Hey, Jerk, it's called a border fence, the same kind of wall every country is entitled to have.

" Israel has never captured and killed a single Palestinian in cold blood. Worst case they go to jail. "

No, they just run them over with bulldozers, or use women & children civilians as human shields....

Why would they NEED to "capture & Kill" ? It's ever so much easier to cut out the middleman & run them over outright with a 6-ton piece of machinery !

What a great tragedy is taking place in this era of economic development and freedom. On one side is State Military might with American made sophisticated air power who can kill and is killing every day any number of people in the name of "self defence, hamas, terrorists, islamists, etc. and whole world look silently even when women and children are killed. On the other side capture of one occupation force soldier creates such a big thing that "infrastructure destruction, water, electricity, and civilian lives" mean nothing. IS THERE ANY ONE IN THIS WORLD DO THE JUSTICE? Weak Arab Governments, Europeans, Americans, Asians, Africans, and UN is silent on this human tragedy.

To anyone who opposes Israel ,you are minimally totally ignorant or otherwise a racist bastard.The issue arises thousands of years ago.Jews are palestinians as much as palestinians as much as palestinians except unlike palestinians they have suffered more injustice than anyone throughout history,FACT!They were dispersed slaves in Rome,Egypt,etc.Finally,after Millions were slaughtered the world assisted them into providing a homeland,where they once resided,AND THEN ALL OF THE COWARDICE ARABS AND PALESTINIANS TRYED TO ANNIHILATE THE JEWS AFTER A HOLOCAUST,WHAT KIND OF TRASH WOULD DO THAT TO ANYONE,PALESTINIANS LEFT THE AREA BECAUSE ARABS TOLD THEM TO,BECAUSE THEY WOULD KILL ALL THE JEWS, AND WHEN THE JEWS WON ,THE PALESTINIANS WERE IN THE AREA OF THEIR CHOICE,JEWS ASKED THEM TO STAY!sO WHO IN THE WORLD WOULD EVER TRUST SOMEONE WHO IS SO LOW AS TO TRY TO FURTHER SLAUGHTER APOPULATION AFTERA HOLOCAUST,grEAT lEGACY ARABS AND PALESTINIANS.Dr.Richard Silverberg!

The Ghalia family was killed by a Hamas land mine, one of many planted unmarked along that beach, directed against a rumored Israeli invation. Hamas then quietly removed the rest of the mines to hide what they had done, and tried to blame the Ghalia deaths on Israel artillery.

One day, we will look back at these moments with sadness and remorse.

There is a peaceful solution -- one of hope and compassion -- waiting to be found.

To those of you on both sides expressing views of hatred and intolerance, know that you personally are but an obstacle to your own dreams and aspirations, delaying the inevitable and prolonging the hurt and suffering of yourself and others.

If you are living abroad, it is your RESPONSIBILITY to encourage your brothers and sisters back home to shun the radicals and strive for peace. Shame on you that promote hatred and violence from the safety of your perch in North America or Europe.

Just keep killing....that will solve things.(not) Both sides make me sick...albeit one side has a helluva lot more power and prosperity.

"I am not sure why the western world gets so outraged by a misfired shell that kills a few civilians. The terrorists routinely and deliberaly slaughter busloads of women and children without any press outrage at all. Wierd how we expect so much more from civilized people than we do from barbarians"

I think it follows quite good logic that we expect more out of civilized people than barbarians. You should expect civilized people to act with restraint and careful concideration of the results of their actions. It is up to those who concider themselves 'civilized' to lead the way to ending violence, not perpetuating it.

I was in Isreal recently and I was able to pick up the al-jazeera network at a hotel I was staying at. I had never seen in before and was very interested. Every single time I turned the TV on all that was shown was a slideshow of death, people getting their arms blown off, their sides torn apart, dead children, I saw pictures of a girl crying over her slain family, possibly this story, possibly different. It was the most graphic awful things I have seen, not becaus of what it was, because of the way it was depicted.

At one point they showed a beautiful dove flying, and in the next clip they literally cut the doves head off.

The propaganda is unbelievable, not that it isn't here as well.

Medias are biased. Governments are shady. As regular people I am sure that we have no idea what the truth is.

It's tough to make any meaningful claims if you don't know the Truth.

"I am not sure why the western world gets so outraged by a misfired shell that kills a few civilians. The terrorists routinely and deliberaly slaughter busloads of women and children without any press outrage atall. Wierd how we expect so much more from civilized people than we do from barbarians"

I think it follows quite good logic that we expect more out of civilized people than barbarians. You should expect civilized people to act with restraint and careful concideration of the results of their actions. It is up to those who concider themselves 'civilized' to lead the way to ending violence, not perpetuating it.

" The Ghalia family was killed by a Hamas land mine, one of many planted unmarked along that beach, directed against a rumored Israeli invation. "

Of COURSE it was ! How DARE we question the "reports" and "conclusions" of the entity that KILLED the people in question !

But then again, we know where YOUR allegance lies, don't we, "Mr. Lesher-stien-berg-ton"

J, I believe you hit the nail on the head. Before the problem was other Arab countries not recognizing Israel. But now there is no threat to the country itself. Whether the Palestinians choose to accept Israel or not, they do not have the power to destroy it. Israel needs to be the bigger and more powerful country, crackdown on the settlers, remove them from areas like Hebron where they terrorize Palestinians on a daily basis.
We need to go back to the Green Line. Create a true Palestinian state side-by-side with Israel. Only then will the killings stop and we can head into a viable peace.
Everyone needs to understand, in 1939, there was a war, in which the Ottoman Empire LOST. And in any war, the spoils go to the victor as they may do as they wish with what they acquire. In 1948, there was another war, in which the Arab states for the most part LOST. Again, Israel may do what they wish with what they acquire. Again, in 1967 and 1973. I will not dispute the validity of each of these two, meaning who struck first and why...
However, the fact is, fair rights for Palestinians will be the only way that PEACE will be achieved.

1. Israel is a nation given by GOD to the Jewish people, 2,000 years before muhammed was even born.
2. There is no such entity as Palestine. No ethnicity, no culture, nothing. The Palestinians are what are called in the Bible the Philistines, a barbaric war-mongering people.
3. Israel's land has been taken from them, or it has been attempted, time after time throughout history. It is not a matter of Israel tried to steal the nation in 1948, it is a matter of them taking back what was given to them by God Almighty.
4. No other nation or people in all of history has been promised by God to be given a land, and to be called "HIS" people.
5. Muslam, Islam, call it what you will, is a satanically created pseudo-religion that exists only for the attempted destruction of Israel. All the rest is just fluff. Extremists use the name od Islam to create world-wide terror to sidetrack defenders of Israel, so that their sick brethren in Palestine, Syria, Iran, etc. can continue to try to destroy Israel.
6. Well guess what? It ain't gonna happen! GOD will decide when and if Israel is not to exist anymore. Gaza - Israel's. Golan Heights - Israel's. West Bank - Israel's.
7. Attention Hamas/PA/Abbas et al - Give the young soldier free and safe passage home. Be grateful Israel allows you to exist. Dis-arm. You have no right to even exist, so be glad you are not part of a sparkling post-nuclear ash-tray!

The world is in conflict because of people like us! People in Arab world give their view ONLY, and People in Israel give their view ONLY. Lets get real, at some point in time every country that exists today was captured and battled by some king.
The problem we face today is because we take sides. How about we feel sorry for human, women, children, infants, THE FUTURE?
Be it GOD or be it Allah, they both refer to THE ONE... compromise is the best way to solve any conflict?
If the media covered both ends in both worlds, then only then can we all live in one planet earth...
after all the earth won't spin in circles if half of it blows up?

PEACE FOR ALL .. don't let the media put a label on our BELIEFS IN GOD... calling us terrorists or zionists...
we eat the same food, we drink the same water, we breath the same air... IF WE CHANGE OUR WAYS OF THINKING there would be no wars, there would be no more money for weapons manufacturers!

Perhaps if Israel never tried to

1. Send Missile attacks in densely populated Urban areas - The only reason there are densely populated is because ALL the Arab brother couintries have kept these areas as UN refugee camps. Gaza was part of EGYPT and West Bank was part of JORDAN - not a country called "Palestine". Wonder why those countries gave up so easily on these areas?

2. Indiscriminately shell Palestinians. Indescriminately? - You mean dropping leaflets telling citizens to stay inside out of harms way, while the IDF tries to get back citizens before they're thrown out of buildings or beheaded?

3. Indiscriminately destroy critical civilian infrastructures. - either you don't know the definition of "indescriminate", or you are not well informed..see above

4. Create an Apartheid wall - Apartheid Wall... catchy name, unfortunately, allowing Palestinians to work in Israel, attend schools and universities, get medical aid, and even participate in government, even being the most free Arab society was not enough for these people - they need ALL of the land - so they blow up busses with bombs filled with NAILS and BALL BEARINGS

5. Arbitrarily set conditions to which the Palestinian Authority has neither the means nor the incentives to accomplish - Arbitrarily? - You mean like the "Quartet" of Russian, UN etc

6. Arbitrarily decide whom within the PA they can compromise with - Arbitrarily. My understanding has been the Israelis have desparetly tried to find someone that could actually STOP the suicide bombings, before they give up even more of the land they gained after they were attacked 5 times in 50 years.

7. Regard the Palestinians with contempt - doesn't deserve an answer

The Peace process would have been a lot easier to kick off. If memory served it was an ultranationalist Jew who killed Rabin, the only Israeli Prime Minister who actually took the Palestinian Peace Process seriously - I recall Barak was willing to give the Pals half of Jerusalem, and 90% of everything else they wanted - but Arafat rejected that too - has it occurred to you that maybe, the Pals really only want one final result? No Israel?

" 1. Israel is a nation given by GOD to the Jewish people, 2,000 years before muhammed was even born. "

What "GOD" ? The Crusaders seem to feel that that area was given unto THEM as well ! Seems like they had a prior claim to it !

Religion du jour ?

Give me a break !

Collective punishement is so wrong and incredibly counter-productive. Israel is terrorizing one million Gaza residents for the sake of one Israeli soldier.

As I understand it, there have been about four Palestinians killed by Israelis for every Israeli killed by Palestinians, and that number is rising.

Is there some aspect of proportionality that I'm missing?

And it's all happening on America's dime. For shame.

Sorry, i find this comment entirely offensive.

"The only innocent Palestinians that die are the ones that are stupid enough to stand next to the terrorists when they get killed."

You're implying only stupid innocent people die, as if that somehow justifies their death. That is like saying a person walking down the street and gets hit by a stray bullet from a drive by is stupid for walking in a dangerous neighborhood. Unofortunetly innocent people live near bad people and need to live their lives. If terrorist activiy is going on in their neighborhood, they can't really do much about it.

Glenn -

"And it's all happening on America's dime. For shame."

Makes me ashamed to be an America & the taxpayer who is stolen from to support this terrorism !

you said
"What "GOD" ? The Crusaders seem to feel that that area was given unto THEM as well ! Seems like they had a prior claim to it!"

The One and Only God. The creator of all. The Father/Son/Holy Spirit triune God who created Israel. The "Crusaders" as you call them are only sticking up for Israel because we know it is the right thing to do.

After reading all the postings, it would seem there is not a lot of clear-headed thinking going on, just a lot of justification of pre-established biases.

Facts are: (1) peace requires compromise, no party gets everything they want; (2) killing of civilians by Israelis is usually accidental, while killing of civilians by Palestinians is usually intentional; (3) all media are biased, as are all people; (4) fighting Israel is the only thing that keeps the Palestinians united; if they ever make a peace treaty with Israel, they will decend into multi-factional civil war that will decimate their population more brutally than anything Israel would ever do; (5) the planet would be better off without any human beings on it, so let's all kill each other off, right away! (6) Have a nice day.

Dr. Richard Silverberg,
You are a doctor? Of what my dear sir? I would expect that someone who is a doctor be better versed in language and also in tolerance.

Yuval,
Thank you. You are a just and dear person, and everyone should take a page from your book. It is the only true stance on how we should be towards each other. We need to act in a humanistic way in order to end violence.

Trouble,
I agree, governments, media, who can we believe? It is up to us, each and every single person to stand up against the injustices, extend Olive Branches to each other and work towards a better day.

To all of you Palestinian sympathizers: why is it OK for the terrorists to kill civilians, but you get all 'upset' when Israel does? If you can't take the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen.

" The One and Only God. The creator of all. The Father/Son/Holy Spirit triune God who created Israel. "

Sorry, dude....that ain't MY god ! MY God gave the region to us Catholics !

I thought that the Gaza strip was evacuated and the Palestinians now (did) have control of it? Thought that was supposed to appease the Palestinians and go towards a more peaceful situation.

If you give an inch the Muslims will take a mile and your wallet, claim torture, behead your citizens, burn the kidnapped, blow up busses or anything else they can to include themselves, fire rockets with intent to kill/maim civilians, blame anyone or thing for their current lot in life, etc, etc, etc.,

I suppose we should just be relieved that it wasn't a real Isreal child screaming over the blown-up remains of her real Isreali family. The hue and cry would be deafening and would probably continue for days if not weeks to the total exclusion of all regularly scheduled programing.

" To all of you Palestinian sympathizers: why is it OK for the terrorists to kill civilians, but you get all 'upset' when Israel does? "

And THERE'S the rub.....why should you term the Palistinians who kill civilians "terrorists" , but refuse to use the same term for ISRAELIS who do EXACTLY the same ?

Now THERES bias at it's finest !

Perhaps when you and people LIKE you were not so biased, then we could have an intelligent conversation !

KP - Catholicism is a man-made religion, with very little truth in it's dogma, much like the Palestinian people/nation/land.
Nowhere in the Bible are we taught the man-made imaginations of the "Blessed Sacrements", praying to dead people, or for dead people...makes about as much sense as Islam...NONE.

"Catholicism is a man-made religion, with very little truth in it's dogma,"

That's YOUR opinion ! My opinion of your hethanistic faith where you do not believe in the coming of christ as heretic !

What's your point ?

Giver of Truth,

So there is no Palestinians? I guess I should just disappear into thin air now, POOF!

The Jewish people for the most part are a just and good people, but by no means are they most important people on the planet. We all have eyes, ears, mouths, brains (some of us), is it so hard to believe that G-d made all of us? The Jewish people as well as the Palestinians share Abraham as their ancestor.

If you continue to spew hate, with your emails, your conversations, your mentality, then it is you who should be arrested and jailed forever. Whether you are: CHRISTIAN, JEWISH, MUSLIM, G-d's law is greater than any other. Remember Giver of Truth, Earth is temporary, we all go somewhere, and it is those who work towards a better place down here that make it to a better place up there.

Why is it that many people feel the way they feel about ISLAM? They call Islam a religion of barbarians?

YOU WERE TRAINED LIKE A PUPPY

NOW SIT

or

STAND AND DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH BEFORE YOU MAKE AN IDIOTIC STATEMENT ABOUT RELIGION.

" To all of you Palestinian sympathizers: why is it OK for the terrorists to kill civilians, but you get all 'upset' when Israel does? "

And THERE'S the rub.....why should you term the Palistinians who kill civilians "terrorists" , but refuse to use the same term for ISRAELIS who do EXACTLY the same ?

I didn't THINK you could come up with a reasonable argument for THAT one, hey ?

" To all of you Palestinian sympathizers: why is it OK for the terrorists to kill civilians, but you get all 'upset' when Israel does? "

And THERE'S the rub.....why should you term the Palistinians who kill civilians "terrorists" , but refuse to use the same term for ISRAELIS who do EXACTLY the same ?

I didn't THINK you could come up with a reasonable argument for THAT one, hey ?

Who's the RACIST now ?

To all of the terrorist apologists out there...

I desire peace as much as anyone. But someone please, PLEASE answer this for me.

How can you have peace when one side's stated objective is the destruction of the other?

If Israel gave Palestine everything they asked for, there would still be bloodshed.

I do not like to hear about the death of innocents in Palestine, or anywhere else for that matter. But even IF that family was killed by Israeli shells, and even IF it was intentional, it would not be the same. Israel would find the soldiers invovled and punish them (as is happening to US soldiers today). Palestine would find the terrorists and praise them.

THERE IS NO MORAL EQUIVALENCE HERE!

Nice logic K.R.

It is the intent by the jihadist to murder civilians.

The intent of the IDF to kill the jihadists who murder Israeli civilians.

Can you comprehend that? Too difficult for you?

KP -
My point is merely pointing out your lackof credibilty as a respondent to this thread, to my posts, or to anyone elses.
I have stated NOTHING about my faith in any post here, ever. You must belong to the same liberal media that we are brainwashed by (or attempted to be) every day.
If you think there is truth in catholocism, show me some scripture. Jesus said, I am the way, the TRUTH and the life." Nothing (or very very little) in Vatican II, or any other catholic canon, lines up with Biblical teaching. Period.
As for my faith? I believe that Jesus Christ died to save me, you, and everyone else on the face of the earth. I believe He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, that He came and lived here, was crucified, died, was buried, and on the 3rd day, rose again. I believe that 40 days later He ascended to Heaven, to His place at the right hand of the Father, and that at a time, unknown to us all but seemingly very soon, He is coming back to gather us all home. My hope is that this is your belief as well, whether we agree on all this other stuff or not.

" But even IF that family was killed by Israeli shells, and even IF it was intentional, it would not be the same. Israel would find the soldiers invovled and punish them "

Is that show ? Then do me the favor of PROVING it. POST a link where Israeli soldiers are punished with OTHER than a slight slap on the wrist for killing innocent civilians.....

SHOW me a case where Israeli soldiers recieve a comparable sentence as for someone who kills an Israeli !

Just ONE !

Sam and Religion -
My point is not that those who call themselves Palestinians do not exist, or that there is anything wrong with them. I am not Jewish, Israeli, or even Middle Eastern. I do not hate Islam. But the bottom line is that God gave Israel to the Jewish nation. Period, no argument. And like many other posts state, the "palestinian" people, as well as most other "arab nations" want to see Israel destroyed. Wiped off the face of the earth.
As for being descendants of Abraham - true descendents of Abraham are Jewish. By blood. Period. Muhammed was a mad-man, and islam has corrupted history to the point of being laughable to an educated person. I have nothing against muslum people. I feel for them, as they have been deluded, brainwashed from birth, and it's sad. God loves us all, and gave His Son Jesus for all of us. He told us that anyone who adds to or takes away from His message is not to be believed. Actually called for them to be put to death in Deuteronomy. Jesus' teaching and way cannot be set aside.
Sorry, not trying to make anyone angry. Truth hurts when it is contrary to what we have been taught to believe, I know.

'And THERE'S the rub.....why should you term the Palistinians who kill civilians "terrorists" , but refuse to use the same term for ISRAELIS who do EXACTLY the same ?'

First of all, and you know it, the Israelis do not purposefully kill civilians. Only the most stupid leftists believe that. But I'm asking for arguments sake, let's say they did. If you think it's OK to kill Israeli civilians, why do you shed your crocodile tears when Palestinians are killed?

KP - I suggest you go to Exodus, Numbers and Deuteronomy in the Old Testament. Re-read them. The wandering the Jewish nation did for 40 years was to kill off those who worshipped the golden calf that they had Aaron make for them, so that no one who had taken part could inherit the land God promised them. He laid out the borders of the land they were to possess, who was to live in each territory, etc. It is VERY specific. I happen to have been re-reading and listening to an audio Bible of the books of Moses the last couple weeks, so it is very fresh in my head. Seriously, go read those books. God gave Israel very specific land, not a wanderlust...

" If you think it's OK to kill Israeli civilians, why do you shed your crocodile tears when Palestinians are killed? '

I DON'T think it's "OK" as such....What I DO resent is someone trying to CON me !

And this CON where you refer to Palestinians who kill civilians as "terrorists" and those Israelis who kill civilians as "defending themselves" is just that....A CON......

Did I mention I dislike being CONNED ?

"He laid out the borders of the land they were to possess, who was to live in each territory, etc. It is VERY specific"

Is THAT so ? Well then, you won't mind cutting out the Bullsh!t and POSTING the relevent passage, will you ?

" But even IF that family was killed by Israeli shells, and even IF it was intentional, it would not be the same. Israel would find the soldiers invovled and punish them "

Is that show ? Then do me the favor of PROVING it. POST a link where Israeli soldiers are punished with OTHER than a slight slap on the wrist for killing innocent civilians.....

SHOW me a case where Israeli soldiers recieve a comparable sentence as for someone who kills an Israeli !

Just ONE !

I didn't THINK anyone could come up with one ! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA ! ! !

You guys are a joke !

Ok KR it's time to go back to the padded room.

First, why do you call the Word of God BS? I would be very careful there.
Here is one of the passages you asked for

Num 32:10 And Jehovah's anger was kindled at that day, and He swore, saying,
Num 32:11 Surely, none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and up, shall see the land which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, because they have not fully followed Me,
Num 32:12 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh, the Kenizzite, and Joshua the son of Nun, for they have fully followed Jehovah.
Num 32:13 And Jehovah's anger was kindled against Israel, and He made them wander in the wilderness forty years until all the generation which had done evil in the sight of Jehovah was destroyed.

"If there were no weapons in Palestine, there would be no war. If there were no weapons in Israel, there would be no Israel."

That's an adorable little quote. It really means nothing because it bears no information whatsoever; except, of course, a subjective and partial view that is unsubstantiated and grossly inadequate with the sole purpose of appeasing a mislead public who might just challenge official pieties. Hamas is in no way without sin, but neither is Israel and the IDF. Because there is no Palestinian state, there can be no Palestinian armed service or militia. There can be private groups and political parties with militant factions. Incidentally, that's what they have there. Because these forces are financially, militarily, and politically inferior to the IDF, they are labeled as terrorists. Because Israel has the overwhelming support of the majority of the world's governments, they can spread propaganda more efficiently than their counterparts. It is the job, however, of responsible citizens and basically educated people to sift through this official line and exercise some critical thought on the matter. Something which many supporters of Israel fail to do.

On the issue of Hamas' sins being far more grave than Israel's because Israel "doesn't target civilians on purpose." Purveyers of that logic should spend their time either pursuing an education or a refund for one that has obviously short-changed them. According to the major human rights organizations, B'Tselem and Human Rights Watch, more Palestinian civilians have been killed than Israeli. So do we prosecute or encourage restraint to the more extreme violator based on fact or promulgated fiction? What military organization has ever claimed to target civilizans? Why should the IDF do any different? How do they just happen to unsuccessfully wield the "smart" technology the U.S. has provided them so often that the Palestinian civilian deaths are just staggerring in relation to Israel? Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land for almost 40 years and their crimes are far more grave than Palestinian. Israel has invaded Egypt and Lebanon in the past. Yesterday they invaded Syria, luckily without any engagement. Israel engages in collective punishment of the Palestinian people and yesterday was no different. Israeli forces bombed bridges and power plants so "militants won't be able to move the kidnapped soldier." This claim is laughable; so much so that many are surprised it's not just satire, yet we have pundits repeating these justifications. Why doesn't Israel just destroy hospitals and clinics? Surely they've treated a criminal at some point. The worst crime of all, however, has to be Israel's claim of the moral high-ground. That, in and of itself, bears a blow to every decent principle and precedent set forth by man from time immemorial.

The media and many in the public routinely skew the facts and practice moral relativism when it comes to this conflict. There has never been more obvious post-hoc justification for any and every Israeli action. It seems as though Israel, from its inception, has not committed a single crime. If a crime has been committed, it has been unknowingly, thereby not constituting the action as a crime at all, just an unintentional mistake. When Israel's dehumanized and persecuted enemies commit the very crime, only to a fraction in degree, with far inferior support and technology, it is a most heinous crime, because it is purely intentional. That is to say, Palestinian actions are antithetical to Israeli RE-action. Palestinian action is aggressive, inhumane, brutal, and decisive; Israeli reaction is innocent, humane, and defensive. I'm sure if we only accepted news briefs from Hamas and routinely dismissed Israel's claims we'd be hearing a far different tale. Unfortunately, many people make up their mind about this and many other conflicts without the slightest bit of investigation beyond listening to claims from biased representatives.

The fact of the matter remains that after research the matter one will find that: 1) the notion of Hamas not recognizing Israel's right to exist is an extraneous request placed on Hamas, as was placed on the PLO, that hasn't been placed on other governments and is conceptually flawed. Israel doesn't need Hamas' recognition of its existence in order to exist. This demand is a hurdle to peace and proves the real value of the peace process in Israel. Furthermore, it is in place to force the Palestinian people to accept their dispossession of their own land, along with the further annexation of more land; incidentally, this is all illegal under international law. 2) Israel has itself threatened "extreme" action. This is an overt threat and premature justification of extreme force if the demands of the state aren't met. This qualifies as "terrorism" if we apply the same definition we do in other instances, but because it's being carried out by Israel it's OK. It takes an extensive mental effort to overlook this claim, yet the media and public so obviously do so. 3) The invasion of Syrian airspace and flight over President Assad's house is an egregious violation of international law and the action itself qualifies as "aggression." Once again, only if we apply a universal definition. How this is dismissed by the pundits and reported in the U.S. without condemnation also takes some mental gymnastics, but it has been done.

In conclusion, any apologist for Israel clearly has contempt for truth, facts, and the social order. Arguments can only be made and won when the facts are presented, not when one side resorts to tired and faulty rhetoric and shabby one-line soundbytes.

"First, why do you call the Word of God BS? I would be very careful there.
Here is one of the passages you asked for "

Really ? Please point out the words "Palestine" or even "the lands that lie between Egypt & Syria"

Somehow, to ME, "coming out of Egypt" is less than firm boundries !

ANd besides...."Jehovah" is once again, not MY God ! Nor is "Buhhda", nor is "Confusious"

"And Jehovah's anger was kindled against Israel, and He made them wander in the wildernes"

And the term "Israel"...(the ONLY reference to the word "Israel") referes SOLELY to PEOPLE....NOT a strip of land....after all...how does one make a strip of land "wander the wilderness" ?

C'mon....try again !

And to ME, "Israel"

Mohammed - just a quick note - Israel has NOT been illegally occupying anything for the last 40 years. Israel was given to the Jewish people 4500 years ago by God Himself. So if anyone is in the wrong place, it would be the philistines. palestinians. Same thing.

KP or KR or whatever is obviously either a Muslim or a Muslim jihadist apologist. Keep posting and show just how much hate you have for the Jewish people. Typical for a Muslim to lie on message boards and claim to be non-Muslim.

KP you just want to argue, don't you? Because you cannot tolerate truth? Is that it? Read my whole post. I said here is the FIRST of the passages. This is where God told Israel as a nation WHY they were going to wander for 40 years. I am trying to give you some truth, and to understand truth, you need the context, and for the context you have to do a little reading.
Now quit being such an ignorant little schmuck and shut up and read. More passages on the way in a moment.

The US taxpayer pay both sides and they fight...if we want it to stop it we have to pay each sides even more. That is how the Isreal-Egypt treaty worked.
When/if this mess ever gets worked out......IT WILL INVOLVE US PAYMENTS TO BOTH ISREALI SETTLERS(to move) AND DISPLACEED PALESTINIANS. Lets pony up now and end the suffering!

"KP or KR or whatever is obviously either a Muslim or a Muslim jihadist apologist. Keep posting and show just how much hate you have for the Jewish people. Typical for a Muslim to lie on message boards and claim to be non-Muslim."

I don't have hate for the "Joos"....far from it ! NOR am I "muslim" ! I'm a good Irish catholic !

But AS an Irish catholic, I UNDERSTAND the plight of an oppressed, persecuted people ! I UNDERSTAND what it means to grub at the leftovers of a more powerful people !

"Apologist" ? Never....Sympathist ? You bet !

In response to Giver of Truth:

Muhammad wasn't a mad-man. You, however, are a terribly uneducated man. Muhammad was one of the greatest leaders and lawmakers the world has ever known. What research have you done into the life of Muhammad? Most likely nothing beyond Jerry Falwell's sermons from his moral high-ground, as it were. For 14 centuries Muhammad has been regarded with the utmost respect throughout all traditions, yet we should learn our history from militant Christians who seem to think Jesus would prefer to gun down the poor with an AK-47 as opposed to feeding them.

You live in a pluralistic society, dimwit. Whatever your thoughts on Muhammad happen to be you have an obvious right to maintain that belief. Also, I acknowledge that it is not I who have given you that right, but it's inherently provided in the society within which we both live. So a suggestion to you would be to accept that as such and if respect is too complex for your feeble mental faculties, try at least to be mindful of the fact that you live with others who may not share your views. If you have no regard for the current social order then it's perhaps best that you leave. America isn't a strong country because of fools such as yourself so be cognizant that you need this country and its citizens more than she and they need you.

KP some more - you are going to have to read a bit to understand truth -

Exo 23:31 And I will stretch your bounds from the Red Sea even to the Sea of the Philistines, and from the desert to the river. For I will deliver the inhabitants of the land into your hand, and you shall drive them out before you.
Exo 23:32 You shall make no covenant with them or with their gods.

Deu 8:7 For Jehovah your God brings you into a good land, a land of brooks of water, of fountains and depths that spring out of valleys and hills,
Deu 8:8 a land of wheat and barley and vines and fig trees and pomegranates, a land of olive oil and honey,
Deu 8:9 a land in which you shall eat bread without want. You shall not lack any thing in it. It is a land whose stones are iron, and out of whose hills you may dig copper.
Deu 8:10 And you shall eat and be satisfied, then you shall bless Jehovah your God for the good land which He has given you.

Looks to me like God was giving them a pretty specific place so far....

The Israeli reaction to the kidnapping of G. Shalit seems odd. One major point in Israel's favor is that Palestinian terrorists deliberately target civilians, a serious concern the world over. What is odd is that when terrorists lob shells at civilians the IDF tries to assassinate a few militants and maybe shoots a few missiles. Yet, when the target is military and not civilian, the IDF blows up critical bridges, an electrical facility, send in the army, buzzes the Syrians, and who knows what else. Wow, if the terrorists learn their lesson they will go back to attacking civilians. Is that what Israel wants?

KP
All you want to do is argue. You make absolutely no sense. You have no actually response based on fact, logic or intellect, so you resort to name-calling and cursing. There is no need for me or any other posting person here to tellyou line by line that you are ignorant. That means uninformed, not stupid. Stupid means informed but incapable of accepting instruction or education. It is up to you whether you choose to show yourself to merely be ignorant, and capable of learning and accepting truth, or to show all who read this that you are indeed stupid. In either case, You choose not to pay any attention to anything in front of you, you just want to spew vileness. So ggodbye, have a nice eternity.

It's humorous how any critic of Israel must hate: peace, Jews, America, and God. Also, a critic of Israel must be: a Muslim, a terrorist, a Jihadist, an Islamist, and any combination/permutation of the aformentioned.

Has it ever occured to you that most critics of Israel have either been occupied illegally by Israel and/or read a lot of history about the matter from many sources?

If you're just a mouthpiece for your militarist pastor or any one of the cable news networks that routinely cuts out a whole perspective on the matter then your opinion is worth nothing. That isn't to say that you won't press your opinion. It is to say that your contribution to any academic study or debate on the matter is non-existant because you're not a source of anything valuable, just a media proxy.

"Exo 23:31 And I will stretch your bounds from the Red Sea even to the Sea of the Philistines, and from the desert to the river"

The territory that God gave to the children of Israel must also be dismissed because one of the markers was "the Sea of the Philistines". (Exodus 23: 31) No Philistines, no territory given by God.

Remember that all this is not just the conventional thinking of ancient historians and archaeologists, it is the accepted thinking of academic Biblical scholars. This is taken from the Anchor Bible Dictionary.

http://www.biblemysteries.com/lectures/philistines.htm

Anything else ?

K.R.

Thanks for waiting a whole 13 minutes for me to respond. I'll tell you what; while I'm looking for a response, why don't you answer my question?

"How can you have peace when one side's stated objective is the destruction of the other?"

"So ggodbye, have a nice eternity."

That's kinda what I thought !

Another nice "theory" blown straight to hell, hey ?

Too damn bad, so damn sad !

KP - 1 final post - here are the borders GOD gave to ISRAEL

Num 34:1 And Jehovah spoke to Moses saying,
Num 34:2 Command the sons of Israel and say to them: When you come into the land of Canaan, this is the land that shall fall to you for an inheritance, the land of Canaan with its borders.
Num 34:3 And your south quarter shall be from the wilderness of Zin along by the border of Edom, and your south border shall be the furthest coast of the Salt Sea eastward.
Num 34:4 And your border shall turn from the south to the ascent of Akrabbim and pass on to Zin. And its limit shall be from the south to Kadesh-barnea, and shall go on to Hazar-addar, and pass on to Azmon.
Num 34:5 And the border shall turn from Azmon to the torrent of Egypt, and the end of it shall be at the sea.
Num 34:6 And for the western border, you shall even have the Great Sea for a border. This shall be your west border.
Num 34:7 And this shall be your northern border. From the Great Sea you shall point out for you Mount Hor.
Num 34:8 From Mount Hor you shall point your border to the entrance of Hamath. And the end of the border shall be at Zedad.
Num 34:9 And the border shall go on to Ziphron, and the end of it shall be at Hazar-enan. This shall be your north border.
Num 34:10 And you shall point out your east border from Hazar-enan to Shepham.
Num 34:11 And the coast shall go down from Shepham to Riblah, on the east side of Ain. And the border shall go down, and shall reach to the side of the Sea of Chinnereth eastward.
Num 34:12 And the border shall go down to Jordan, and the end of it shall be at the Salt Sea. This shall be your land with the borders of it all around.

" I'll tell you what; while I'm looking for a response, why don't you answer my question? "

Tell ya what....let's wait for you to answer MY question (posed first), and then I'll do the favor of answering YOURS !

I fell for THAT one WAY too many times !

"Exo 23:31 And I will stretch your bounds from the Red Sea even to the Sea of the Philistines, and from the desert to the river"

The territory that God gave to the children of Israel must also be dismissed because one of the markers was "the Sea of the Philistines". (Exodus 23: 31) No Philistines, no territory given by God.

Remember that all this is not just the conventional thinking of ancient historians and archaeologists, it is the accepted thinking of academic Biblical scholars. This is taken from the Anchor Bible Dictionary.

http://www.biblemysteries.com/lectures/philistines.htm

Another nice "theory" blown straight to hell, hey ?

Too damn bad, so damn sad

Israel has the land and is not going to give it up. The Palestinians lost the land, and any attempt to hurt Israel only backfires on them, but much worse. Regardless of who's right or wrong, this is the reality of the situation. Besides, with the way things are going, within 20 years there will be nuclear fallout over the whole area and no one will want the land.
As to quoting scripture, I think that that is what someone does when he runs out of logical arguments. The people who wrote those scriptures probably also believed that the Earth was flat, so, so much for their opinions.

Just a remind, readers, that comments containing obscenity, vulgarity and racist terms will be deleted.

Speak your mind but please do it with a minimum of respect.

KP - If you were a student of any sort, certainly you could look up and find that the Sea of the Philistines was a name for the Mediterranaen in ancient times.
You are proving yourself to be on the stupid side of the scale.
Have to go with the gentleman who is trying to impart some truth to you thus far. you are not succeeding in making yourself look anything but ridiculous.
Same with muhammed up above there too - you both have to resort to name calling and crass treatment of others that disagree with you or are correct when you are incorrect. it's a shame.

My feelings on this is that the Palestinians have had more than enough time to finally compromise and accept a two state solution. But no that's not good enough-they want everything. So I say to hell with them and let's just throw them out once and for all.

"As to quoting scripture, I think that that is what someone does when he runs out of logical arguments"

THAT was my impression of my little "buddy" up there......

What's the term ? "Grasping at straws" ?

The academy award for best drama does indeed belong to the Palestinians. A cameraman just happened to be at the scene at the beach when the explosion happened? Why the removal of all schrapnel, which is never standard procedure, from an injured before she was removed to an Israeli hospital? Something to hide? I'm reminded of the young boy on his way to his own funeral (killed, of course, by the Israelies) who fell off the stretcher and miracle of miracles got right back on - all by himself. I could go on and on - but you get the point. The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

"Sea of the Philistines was a name for the Mediterranaen in ancient times. "

Was it ? Once again...PROVE it ! And then, once again, I will prove far different !

"you both have to resort to name calling "

Name calling ? WHERE ? again, PROVE IT !

POST that bad boy ! I called NO ONE "names"

Besides which.....Look at your signature about 25 posts up "KP you are an idiot "

Who's the one calling names NOW, beech ?

Mohammed
There can only be ONE truth. We may live in a pluralistic society, but there can only be one truth, and if there is untruth in making that truth, then it cannot be.
2+2=4. That is truth. Just because a madman who hid out in cave 600 years ago to hide from those seeking to kill him for his adulterous ways writes something down, and manages to convince people to follow it, it cannot be truth if it contradicts the Word of the one true God. There can only be one God. There cannot be God of the Jews, God of the Christians, Allah of Islam, Buddha, etc, and all of them be different and have different theology. It just cannot be. Muslim's "Allah" is NOT the God Moses followed. "Allah" is the figment of mohammed's imagination that he wanted the real God to be.
It will never happen. mohammed couldn't get it right, so his 2+2=5 will never be truth.

The main issue for American should be that supporting Israel is catastrophic for American national security. It costs us billions every year to support a regime whose behavior alienates 1 billion muslums and inspires Islamists extremists to attack America and Americans. Can somebody please explain to me how it could possibly be in our interest to sustain this support?

Fascinating reading. Obviously most readers/writers are either for or against Palestine or Israel - using either "common sense" or religious convictions. Whatever - it shows a good cross-section of intelligent people strongly opposing each other. Based on this alone obviously a "two country" solution is not going to work - ever. Now What??

the board is holding posts. WHY?

"Can somebody please explain to me how it could possibly be in our interest to sustain this support?"

EXACTLY ! What ARE we pumping in Ten BILLION dollars into this waste of time ?

$91 BILLION since 1945, $134.5 BILLION with interest ! $23,240 for every Israeli man, woman, & child !

Good lord, the US goverment has not spent HALF of that $23,240 on ME, a taxpayer and US CITIZEN !

And that's not even COUNTING the trillions of dollars in "military assistance" provided to Israel in the past 60 years !

And for WHAT ? They offer us NOTHING ! Not oil, not resources, not even cheap labor ! ! !

What a Crock ! Thank you, Jewish lobby !

I turn to the Bible for reference first and foremost, as it is the most accurate and telling history ever known. It certainly is not grasping at straws. If using scripture or religion as a reference is "grasping at straws" what does that say about the whole Islamic world, where one can be killed merely for not believing? Or Judaism, where being Jewish alone is enough to be vilified and hated around the entire world?
Basing a belief on scripture would certainly seem to me to be far from grasping at anything but truth.

"Basing a belief on scripture would certainly seem to me to be far from grasping at anything but truth."

"Scripture as truth" led to the Inquisition....AND the Crusades...shall we return to that ? I think NOT !

Scripture was never MEANT to be more than GUIDANCE !

More truth for you:

"Mohammed - just a quick note - Israel has NOT been illegally occupying anything for the last 40 years. Israel was given to the Jewish people 4500 years ago by God Himself. So if anyone is in the wrong place, it would be the philistines. palestinians. Same thing."

I understand your religious beliefs, but that is not a basis for international law, it's a basis for diplomacy or mutually agreed policy. The fact of the matter remains that under international law, Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land.

About your belief, many Orthodox Jews oppose the state of Israel because it's their belief that God had mandated that the Jews will NOT have a home land. I'll assume that you don't disagree with this interpretation of their scripture. Religiously, it is my belief that taking possession of something that is not yours through means of coersion and guile is a sin. Our beliefs all refute one another, which is why we have a secular system of laws that is based on humanism. Incidentally, Scripture also tells us about caring for the poor, yet I don't see much action taken for the suffering of the Palestinian people.

If we choose to accept certain beliefs, such as: Israel was given to the Jews by God, and ignore other beliefs, such as: feed the poor and hungry and care for all of God's creatures, then we're never going to reach a solution, now will we? This may be all well and good for some such as yourself, but if the position were reversed then I'm sure you would encourage further interpretation.

Say, for example, you had a house that has been in your family for generations, and lets say that you live in this house. If I believed that God intended for me to have the house and brought you a petition with thousands of signatures of people who believed me would you leave? What if I convinced the local police that your house was given to me by God and I occupied your house and put half your family in the basement and the other half in the attic? Also, you had to rely on me for food, clothing, electricity, and water. If you wanted to see the other half of your family you had to request it to me and the fate of that request depended on my mood, which I could attribute to the safety of my family and of my possessions. If you had to seek medical attention it would only be if I agreed that you needed medical attention. If you ever challenged your dispossession of your house I would fire bullets into the attic and basement. I would routinely hit and kill members of your family, not necessarily the dissenting ones, but claim my safety and sovereignty to be the primary concern and all innocents being hit as collateral damage.

Would you laud your dispossession then? Would you then preach to all about how God mandated the house for me? Would you regard your family's resistance and my occupation of your house to be mutually exclusive? Probably not! You may even think this example to be inherently different than the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, but why and how? This thought experiment is analagous to the conflict, yet people dismiss it readily because they can't fathom accepting the conclusions. If you disagree with the logic presented in this example and find it to be unacceptable and ridiculous then why do you accept it in Israel and Palestine?

If you do find the example acceptable then you should be more steadfast in your belief and move over to the occupied territories and preach to them that their dispossession and dehumanization is really a mandate from God.

Incidentally, Israel would not receive the assistance and support it does if there wasn't oil in the Middle East. Israel is just a U.S. military base.

kp
Tell ya what, young man - you are so smart, you obviously don't need scripture or truth in your life. I hope you're right. If you are wrong, hell is way hot. If by chance, I or other believers in Christ are wrong, we end up as worm food. If my beliefs are correct, and obviously I think they are, eternity is going to be incredible. Would love to have you not spend it wishing you would have opened yoru heart when the truth was sent your way.

" Would love to have you not spend it wishing you would have opened yoru heart when the truth was sent your way."

What "truth" ? When it IS sent my way, then we'll discuss it !

But there is no "truth" in that MY catholic God gave the Jewish people ANYTHING....not in MY bible !

You interpret the bible the way YOU want to, and I will interpret the bible the way my PRIEST tells me to !

Why does everyone keep saying that the mid-east is only a US interest because of oil? Israel, according to muhammed above, Iraq according to American democrats, Afghanistan according to left wing conspiracy theorists.
If that is the case, answer me this - Why are gas prices in America 3 times what they were at the turn of the century?

Believing scripture is simply believing the opinion of ordinary men written thousands of years ago. There's absolutely no proof that there even is a god. Yet, varied beliefs in this unproven god cause men to hate each other. We'd be so much better off without any religion of any kind. Then mankind would have to rely on itself ... or make logical arguments instead of quotes. But for those of you who like quotes: If "Religion is the opiate of the masses", we have a world of very drugged-up people.

World will be a better place without Israel.

"Why are gas prices in America 3 times what they were at the turn of the century?"

By "turn of the century", You mean 6 years ago ?

It's not....6 years ago, the price of gas up here was $1.79.....today, about $2.89

ABout a Buck more...not 3 times, not even twice !

KP
Why don't you just pick it up and READ IT? If you are as intelligent as you act like here, certainly you can read and interpret the Bible.
I depend on my pastor for many things, and if I have a question, I will ask him, but I am perfectly capable of reading the Bible and understanding it by myself. The problem with "religion" is that people follow what one person decides the interpretation is, they don't pick it up and read it and study it and embrace it for what it is. Thats sucks.

First I want to compliment Mr. Morley for his courage in addressing the question of bias in the American Media toward Israel.
Let us begin by saying there are no Saints in the Middle East. This includes Israel. The major difference between Israel and its neighbors is they do not openly accept responsibility for their actions. The Israeli government does the same things as Arabs, but without offical acknowledgement.
However, there are many Israelis and their Institutions I do admire. I too think that Haaretz, the Israeli Newspaper, is one of the best in the world. I think Al-Jazeera is also one of the best news outlets. Cable news within the United States is trash. As scholars, I admire Israelis Avi Shlaim and Tom Segev.
I also admire Americans Juan Cole and Stephan Walt who are also attempting to tell the truth. I also should include the Gentleman who wrote the article in the London Review of Books with Dr.Walt, but I cannot spell or pronounce his name. These are scholars as opposed to myth makers and propagandists.
By way of balance, I have the same negative opinion of the Bush administration, as I do the Israeli governments.

K.R. and Mohammed,

Monday, November 22, 2004 - Associated Press
JERUSALEM -- Military prosecutors have issued a five-count indictment against an Israeli officer who comrades say repeatedly shot a wounded 13-year old Palestinian girl to make sure that she was dead, a military spokeswoman said Monday.

Extracts from the Hamas charter:

"Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors."

"Hamas believes the land of Palestine has been an Islamic Waqf [land] throughout the generations and until the Day of Resurrection, no one can renounce it or part of it, or abandon it or part of it. . . Hamas is a distinct Palestinian Movement which owes its loyalty to Allah, derives from Islam its way of life and strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine."

"When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims. In order to face the usurpation of Palestine by the Jews, we have no escape from raising the banner of Jihad."

"Why don't you just pick it up and READ IT? If you are as intelligent as you act like here, certainly you can read and interpret the Bible."

I did.....and it just so happens, MY "interpretation" & my PRIEST'S "interpretation" coincide....

What's your point ?

"Monday, November 22, 2004 - Associated Press
JERUSALEM -- Military prosecutors have issued a five-count indictment against an Israeli officer who comrades say repeatedly shot a wounded 13-year old Palestinian girl to make sure that she was dead, a military spokeswoman said Monday. "

SURELY you jest ! That's the BEST you can come up with ?

Recall me asking :

"SHOW me a case where Israeli soldiers recieve a comparable sentence as for someone who kills an Israeli !"

Indictment is not PUNISHMENT ! Given that this case was WAYYYYY back in 2004, SURELY this soldier has been convicted & sentanced.....

SHOW ME !

Giver of Truth:

Research for your views beyond your Sunday sermons is what is called for. You can say insensitive things like "Muhammad hid out in a cave" and that he was "adulterous," but you fail to substantiate your point.

I'm sorry but "2+2=5" or "2+2=4" do nothing to validate any of your statements. Why you even said that to support your claim is confusing. You would be laughed out of any academic circles with that nonsense. Muhammad's beliefs equal 5 and your beliefs equal 4? Is that what we're supposed to take home from your logic?

Incidentally, my belief (since I am a Muslim) is that the God of Muhammad IS the God of Jesus, Moses, Abraham, and Adam. Every Muslim believes that. You, however, just don't accept it. The failure of comprehension rests in your hands, although it's not terribly surprising.

In regards to truth, you're correct when you say that there is only one truth. Congratulations. All religions preach brotherhood, charity, and love. You somehow transform that into militarism. Also, matters of policy and international law should not be based entirely on one person's religious beliefs. And, American foreign policy has never been based on religion, even if you believe your pastor and our dear President. It doesn't take a scholar to figure that out, either. Though, it does take someone with an appreciation of truth. 2+2=5, indeed! It seems that you're the one who cant add.

Gas here was $0.89 for regular in 1999. It is now $2.69 or more. thats triple. I know you don't understand math, or know how to research anything, but if you don't then just shut your trap.

"Monday, February 22, 1999-Gasoline prices in the United State