"The disparate reaction to Lebanon's civilian casualties may simply reflect the larger beliefs of the societies in which journalists work." - What nonsense! American's bigoted view of the Mideast is formed by the deeply biased
reporting. When it comes to the Middle East we have no free press - we are the most self-censored press in the world.

I really hope we can blame the American media for the callous disregard that has been shown by the US leadership to the bloodshed and destruction in Lebanon. Otherwise we would have to wonder how Americans, always depicted by the Hollywood fairytale as caring, compassionate and highly moral people, can bear to watch children being massacred in large numbers while they tut tut about the horrible terrorists.
And how's George W's form? He was almost in tears over his concern with the 'murderous' and 'immoral' nature of stem cell research at the same time that he gives the go ahead to another week of slaughter of innocent civilians - most of them real, living children. Where's the logic? Where's the morality?

Thank you for this review. America has been propagandized for decades about the Middle East and Israel. Israel long ago chose violence as its way of dealing with its neighbors and the United States became its willing enabler, with hundreds of millions of dollars per year (OUR dollars) going to Israel for the purchase of weapons of war to use against poverty-stricken Palestinians and, later, Lebanese. Hamas and Hezbollah were the result of Israel's previous actions. Who knows what their current actions will bring.

The legislation passed by the Congress yesterday trumpets to the world the nonsense that Israel is in danger of annihilation and is therefore justified in its war against the citizens of both Palestine and Lebanon. Will these resolutions aid peace? I think not. Will Israel's continued campaign of death and destruction lead to peace? Absolutely not.

Well the people of America may not see what is going on but be certain the Muslim world does. They know where the F16's, helicopters, 'smart missles' (which kill civilians) all come from. This war makes it very clear where the US with all its so called support of democracy stands. George Bush may pretend to feel for each death in Lebanon - but then he sends another replacement missle to Israel.

Take an American and put him on French soil: after one year he will think like other Frenchmen. The same is true for a Frenchman transferred to US.

Why?

It's propaganda, and only propaganda, that makes the difference. What you see on TV in US is that two Israeli civilians were killed by a Hizbollah rocket. In France you see that a hundred civilians were killed by an Israeli rocket.

That makes some difference in perception.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the MSM American brainwashing machine is more biased, more shameless, and more inclined to the "God bless us!" ideology, than its counterparts in Europe.

For once, Mr. Morley has provided the reader with a comprehensive and factual review of world opinion regarding Israel's actions! One, however, has to ask how this column escaped the "truth police" at the Washington Post?

I like Richard Cohens article. A dream of the 19th century, that brought the colapse of Austrian-Hungarian empire, that many in that region wish back........people fleeing to Israel without thinking much.

On the other hand Israel is a reality. Does it matter much? The basic problem seems to be Israels unwillingness to talk with its neighbors. Lets call it "arrogance". Israels unwillingness to seek a solution along the borders of 67. There is no other way and when they they will realise it it may be to late. A solution along the borders of 67, that is open for future peacefull change. A one state solution looks more beautifull on the map anyway.

If you read only the Post or the New York Times you would have no clue that the rest of the world regards the US and Israel as bullies and pariahs. The US has in Israel a client state it can't control. GWB sees this bloodshed, like that in Iraq, as an "opportunity." Not an opportunity he'd like to share, though. I've often wondered what Bush would do if he faced the grim situations he's happy to put other people in.

The rule regarding criticism of Israeli government actions is this: If you do it, you're anti-Semitic. If you're Jewish and you criticize this bloodbath, you're a self-hating Jew. See Noam Chomsky.

I must agree with Prof. As'ad AbuKhalil, when he says that "the same racist impulse that considers Israeli lives worth more than Arab lives is at play here. I have no doubt that the lives of Arabs never meant much for the descendants of colonial powers in the region."

Having spent the last five years in the U.S. I was shocked to discover the extent of Americans' racist attitudes towards Arabs -- or anyone with an obviously Muslim name, for that matter. This racism is being encouraged every day by reporting that treats Muslim lives as somehow sub-human and expendable. If the supporters of the current Israeli war think that killing civilians will bring peace in the Middle-East, they are either disingenous or self-deluded.

I think Americans are far less concerned with Israel "fighting fair" than they are about who started this, and how the people who started it will pay for starting it.

Many Europeans in countries occupied during WWII still remember what it is like having some foreigner shout at you in a language that you don't understand and your relatives shot or arrested when they don't give the "right" answer. This memory makes Europeans (perhaps minus the English?) understand the psychology of foreign invasion and occupation much better than Americans, and perhaps it makes them better equipped to understand the political reactions that invasions (even supposedly "well-intended" ones)are likely to spur.

The present administration's mideast policy is something that only a congenital drunken imbecile and his overpaid lackies (many in the media) could forge and implement, as they are greatly lacking in any vision for a lasting peace. What the American people see courtesy of its monolithic propaganda machine is only what this cabal of war criminal wants us to see. The Lebanon/Gaza bloodbath is an "Opportunity" for them-not a reason to immediately intercede in order to prevent further loss of civilian lives, and to restore any hope of America being seen as an "honest broker". After the countless deaths of Arabs and Muslims, Israel will have won a short term victory over the Lebanese and Gazans, but it will have squandered another chance to secure a long term peace with its neighbors. Hizbullah will probably emerge more politically and dare I say, more militarily powerful for the next bout of American-supported carnage by our Israeli "allies." After this latest episode of US taxpayer-sponsered "opportunity"-the survivors of Lebanon and Gaza will have even greater reason to hate Americans. I guess the return address on Israeli-launched U.S. made missiles will give them a location to forward their varied responses worldwide. Now that's one very rosy scenario!

I am continuously amazed by Anti-Israeli writers who completely ignore in their logic who started this, and that Israel has no choice but to do what they are doing. Let's put the blame where it belongs.

What an excellent summary of how America's reporting on this conflict is so different from that in much of the rest of the world.

Have any of the Post's editors read this yet? Or have they been too busy either pushing atrocities against Lebanese civilians lower into each story, or just rewriting them to make them less offensive? My personal favorite the Post worked up was a recent description of the killing of several Lebanese "with Canadian citizenship." Um ... doesn't that make them Canadians? Guess not -- apparently it wouldn't be wise to let readers start imagining Israelis accidentally killing our (presumably white) neighbors ...

That last citation is a nice touch.

Richard Cohen is right.

The best way to secure one's place in any location is to make friends.

One requirement of that is not to kill people's family members.
Israel claims to be very concerned about these neighboring countries appreciating their right to exist.

Well, I think they need to appreciate everyone else's right to exist as well.

The big issue here goes back to making friends. Israel probably killed that for the next 100 years along with these people.
At least.

I hear that 18% of the Lebanese government is Hizbullah, and that their army is bigger than the Lebanese army.

I would think that would leave the average Lebanese citizen in a tough spot.

While unfortunately no one will thank them for it, they have a duty to appreciate that, especially if they don't want the entire Lebanese government to be Hizbullah, or better yet Syria.

Wolcott: Suppose that someone living in an appartment block has injured or even killed one of your family (God forbid). Would you start bombing this and the neighboring buildings to take your revenge upon "them"?

Would your fellow Americans be less concerned with
your actions than "about who started this, and how the people who started it will pay for starting it" ?

>

Thank you for the press survey. Even though it looked into the possible motivations of the American press coverage, there seemed to be little attention paid to what political, historical and cultural influences there are in other parts of the world press.
Considering the 60 year run-up that the European, Arab and British audiences have had in coverage of Israel and those wishing its death, I'm not surprised at their reporting at all.

The situation is tragic, but it seems that many only care about about Arab civilians being killed when it is done by Israelis or Americans. Otherwise the silence is deafening.

We have a new Hitler in town - he lives in Isarel. A previous writer just said: "On the other hand Israel is a reality. Does it matter much?" Yes, it matters much because innocent people are suffering (Hitler did the same with Poland before starting WW2. But what Israel should understand, it has suddenly started its decline and obviously will disappear as is. The Arab World has had enough. Hesbolla is just a name of Arab countries and Arab fighters taking on Israel - somewhat like the "Underground" in Europe taking on Hitler Germany. Israel will eitehr 1)disappear completely or 2)redefine itself as a fully integrated society in the Middle East were Palestinians will be in charge and were Jews will be tolerated. I think it will be #1. Hatred and new sophistication of weapons will be too much for Israel to block - see USA in Iraq, basically they have given up. No need to take sides but just look at realities.

Sorry, Alice, but your example is clearly not a good analogy of the situation. The circumstances are completely different.

Hezbollah could have avoided the situation by not bombing Israel, and by not kidnapping 2 Israeli soldiers. They could have ended it before Israel started the devastation if they stopped bombing, and if they released the soldiers. Israel has no choice. Hezbollah is responsible for everything happening there. Israel is simply responding decisively and refusing to give into blackmail.

While I'm sure that there is a huge difference in the way the American media is reporting the devastation, I think they are giving the American public just what it wants ... to see punishment for the ones who started it, even if it means attacking their families and the neighbors who support them.

I am continuously amazed by Anti-Israeli writers who completely ignore in their logic who started this, and that Israel has no choice but to do what they are doing. Let's put the blame where it belongs.
Posted by: Wolcott | July 21, 2006 08:27 AM

Please stop this "chicken-or-egg" thing that has been going on for some 60 years. The Israelis started it all by stealing land from Palestinians/Arabs. Israel is nothing but a "Colony" with Righteous Nonsense (God likes us the Best because we Always Suffer so this is OUR LAND - also called "ZIONISTS"). The original owners (Arabs) are angry and have decided to trow them out. No big deal. Reality is raising its ugly head (at least for the colonists).

IS THERE ANYONE, ANYWHERE....who does not see extreme danger that a jewish owned and operated, dominated press has posed in America? Not to mention the department of defense, the NSA and the white house. Has worked out very well, hasn't it. With brutal hell to come. But of course we don't care what the rest of the world thinks.

Steve G's assessment of the press coverage of Israel in Europe in the last 60 years doesn't seem accurate.

The mainstream Norwegian press (and the political establishment) used to be solidly Pro-Israeli in the 70's and 80's, even to the point of supporting immoral and illegal acts of war. Mossad got away with murdering an innocent waiter, Ahmed Bouchiki, in Lillehammer in 1972, while he was walking down the street with his pregnant Norwegian wife (apparently, they thought he might be Ali Hassan Salameh, a man on their hit-list after the Munich attacks). This is the only lethal terrorist attack on Norwegian soil in the last sixty years that I can think of.

Reality began to catch up with ideology in the 90's, however, and some in the Pro-Israeli camp began to ponder what being a "friend of Israel" really demands.

Typical is the reaction of former PM Bondevik, who in an interview with Aftenposten yesterday wondered how someone can call himself a friend of Israel while supporting the current attacks on Lebanese civilians. True friends don't stand by and cheerlead while you're committing atrocities, true friends speak up. It's time for the true friends of Israel (and America) to speak up.

"Please stop this "chicken-or-egg" thing that has been going on for some 60 years. The Israelis started it all by stealing land from Palestinians/Arabs. "

Let me set the record straight on one thing.

The Jews did not start by stealing land from the Arabs.

They started by buying land from the Arabs.

It wasn't untill war had broken out that they started stealing (or confiscating take your pick) land from the arabs.

The thing is Wolcott probably most people would not have too much of an objection if the idf were fighting hezbollah but so far they have only done a good job on taking out the K-7 brigades of Lebanon.

I've asked this on many of the other blogs but most of the Israeli "HB started it" crowd don't have the guts to answer...at what point will you criticise the idf for going to far....will we have to see another Sabra & Chatilla? Will it be when they accidently kill a large number of non-Lebanese civilians? Drop a bomb on the US Embassy? What are the limits?

I am interested to see if you have limits or if you feel they should have carte..
blanche..

And btw I absolutely condemn HB for firing missiles at civilians in Israel...targeting civilians - especially children - is terrorism regardless of who sanctions it..

MissColony:
First you want the "chicken/egg" or "who started it" to stop, and then you point out that Israel started it, by taking the land from the "original owners (Arabs).
The ownership of that land has been debated for thousands of years. The Arabs have no more right to it than Israel. The land has always belonged to whoever won the last war.

This article as well as the resultant comments are a disappointing reminder that those who identify themselves with one group or the other can easily disregard the suffering experienced by the other side. Both sides want to be the victim, and both sides want to cast responsibility on the other to justify their own actions. Some of the comments on this site have noted that Americans do not place value on the loss of Arab lives. At the same time however, Arabs also do not place value on the loss of Israeli lives. Often times, there are reports of Arabs celebrating in the streets after Israelis have been killed. If there is ever going to be a real solution to this conflict, people have got to stop the, "everything is the other side's fault" game. One group is rarely ever responsible for all the problems. At this point, it doesn't even matter who started it. There needs to be honest discussion about how to end this, pride aside, if there's ever going to be any peace.

Finally, a discussion in which the thoughtful, intelligent people who understand world politics and think about it way outnumber the shrill, obnoxious, if "a" therefore "x" zionists.
I will enjoy reading (most of) your thoughts. As opposed to the gentleman the comPost had yesterday to comment on the middle East, he was from The Washington Institute for Near East Policy, The policy wing of AIPAC (fair and balanced)

In 1945, the United States Air Force dropped nuclear bombs on two cities in Japan, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The death toll from both has been estimated around 214,000 people, most of them civilians. Suppose now for an instant that we, the Jews, would have had the possibility of bombing Germany and killing 214,000 German civilians during the 2nd World War and that this would have allowed us to save a part of the six million Jews assassinated, wouldn't we have done it? And if we had done it, wouldn't we have been accused of brutality and sadism by all the newspapers of the world? Wouldn't the newspapers be full of pictures of poor little innocent victims of the Jews?

There is something that became quite clear to Jews during and after the 2nd World War: not that the Christian Europeans have always been implacable enemies (this they suspected), not that the world is cynical (this they knew), but that all information provided by the press is strongly biased and unreliable, even if it is published in a "serious" newspaper, even if it appears in all the papers of a country with so-called "freedom of information", even if it appears in all the newspapers of the world. "Strongly biased and unreliable" does not mean "always false". It means that what you read in the papers, what you hear on the radio, what you see on television is a series of rumors, not a description of reality.

Also Friday, a U.N.-run observation post just inside Israel was struck during fighting between Israel and Hezbollah militants. The Israeli army blamed Hezbollah rockets but a U.N. officer said it was an artillery shell fired by the Israeli Defense Force.

A U.N. officer, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation, said an artillery shell fired by Israel made "a direct hit on the U.N. position overlooking Zarit." The post is part of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon.

The washington post should also analyze the arab media's silence when it come to the daily massacres of arabs in iraq by their fellow arabs. It seems that arabs only care if jews do the killing, and the washington post is falling for their very selective and convenient outrage.

Let's face it: U.S. media have never reported fairly on Israeli agression in the Middle East -- in large part because a disproportionate number of U.S. journalists, editors and producers are committed Zionists who view Israeli lives as sacred and Arab lives as expendable. As someone with friends on both sides of this conflict, I'm astonished at the bias evident in U.S. media reports.
How can anyone be surprised that U.S. sympathies lean toward Israel when practically all U.S. media reports portray Israel as a victim and Arabs as aggressors -- when, in fact, death tolls since the establishment of the state of Israel reveal precisely the opposite.
Moral of the story: if you want the straight goods on what is going on in the Middle East, forget about relying on U.S. media reports. They're hopelessly biased.

"Strongly biased and unreliable" does not mean "always false". No, but it does mean that you shouldn't a) waste time reading it or b) believe any of it.

Thanks for your article.

The press in this country is extremely biased. They always repeat the story line that Israel's invasion of Gaza started when one of their soldiers was "captured", but never mention that just 12 hours before that incident, Israel entered Gaza and "captured" two Palestinians, nor the months long embargo and blockade of Gaza that has turned it into a prison for its residents.

And when covering of the brutal attacks on Lebanon, they ignore to mention the invasion and killings in Gaza that preceded Hezballah's capture of the Israeli soldiers. Nor do they mention the Lebanese prisoners held by Israel that Lebanon has repeatedly requested be returned. Nor do they mention the routine violations of Lebanese airspace and sovereignty when Israel bombs or assasinates Lebanese and Palestinians in Lebanese territory.

As always our press always covers the story with the assumption is that Israel has the right to arrest Palestinian "criminals" while Palestinians or Lebanese have no right to react or defend themselves.

If i'm not miustaken the reason Hezbollah captured the 2 Israeli soldiers was to attempt a prisoner exchange., israel holds over 900 Lebanese and Arabs, Hezbollah and hasn't charged them with criems or offered them any leagl recourse. (Kind of like Gitmo...)

Because Israel cannot see their way to offering justice to Arabs, they find they must crush them. Which means that innocents die.

And the MSM American media, buying into the short term memory, fails to tells its audience the whole picture.

Many good points are made here about the innocent civilians, and I think it's tragic and unfair. But war is tragic and unfair.

After N.Korea drops it's first nuclear bomb on a US city, are we going to hesitate to retaliate because of the innocent civilians we will kill? Or wait for the second bomb?

I wish these conversations could be conducted without people descending into streams of invective about zionists and nazis and jewish owned-and-operated media and political machines. (Jews own the White House? And the Defense Department? What?)

It obscures the larger point, which is that there are many of us who do support Israel, but not blindly -- who don't support military actions like these that kill civilians. It raises distrust when the reasonable anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian advocates won't disavow the crazies -- and it's what make people start thinking about anti-semitism instead of the issues.

"After N.Korea drops it's first nuclear bomb on a US city, are we going to hesitate to retaliate because of the innocent civilians we will kill? Or wait for the second bomb?"

A)Hypothetical
B)Wrong Chat

A)Hypothetical
B)Wrong Chat
********
Agreed. My only point is that in war, civilians die when retaliation is necessary ... as tragic and unfair as it is.

All right Wolcott, let's see see who started it, in order to put the blame where it belongs.
Let's see, did it start with the expulsion of the Palestinians from their land and homes in 1948? Did it begin with the massacres of Khan Younis and Deir Yassin? Did it begin with the 1982 invasion and destruction of Lebanon, the division of the West Bank into cantons by encouraging settlements, the erection of the illegal, land-grabbing wall, the demolishment of Palestinian homes with bulldozers (courtesy of the good folks at Caterpillar), the uprooting of olive trees, the humiliation at checkpoints, the illegal arrest and detainment (without charge, without trial) of countless prisoners both Lebanese and Palestinian, the torture in Israeli jails, the "targeted assassinations" that have taken out civilians as "collateral damage", the stripping away of Palestinian dignity and human rights, the blocking of medical care and aid, the punishing of democracy, the blockading of Gaza, the comments of Begin, when he said that "1,000 Arabs are not worth a single Jewish fingernail", the kidnapping of the two Palestinian brothers that preceded the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit, the violation of airspace over Lebanon (after the "withdrawal"), the Qana massacre, the Sabra and Shatila massacres....? When did it begin?
Anti-Israeli? Not so much. Let's call it Pro-Human.

By that logic, the civilians killed in Hezb'allah's retaliations for attacks on Beiruit which are killing civilians are not OK, but necessary. But that is the justification for more strikes on Beiruit. See the problem?

Can't just argue for one side, gotta tar everyone with the same brush

Why doesn't Jefferson Morley look at Arab coverage of suicide bombings on Israelis buses and in Israeli pizza shops, when Jewish and Arab Israeli civilians are TARGETED by bombs packed with ball bearings and rat poisin intended to inflect the most horrific damage possible? Is it because the Arab media (and some of the European media) present these deaths as acceptable?

Israel and jews are always guilty
it is not signigicant tht hamos and hezbolla are terrorist and killers
the world always will hace to face the real situation
hamas and hizbola are terroist and tomorrow they will try to destroy USA
please don´t be so nahib

You could have just posted in hebrew, your spelling might have been better.

It is really peculiar to see how many arabs and filo-arabs blame the american pro-israel feelings on biased media, and none of them recognizes propaganda as a possible cause of their own hatred of Israel. This is even more amazing if one considers that plurality of opinions and freedom of the press are practically non-existing in Arab/Muslim states, where all the media are state-controlled or mullah-controlled and primary school textbooks teach the children to hate Israel. And the Americans are the ones being brainwashed. It's simply ridiculous (and tragical at the same time).

zene: you sound anti-Israeli to me.
Certainly there have been many conflicts going back thousands of years, but, even though there was hatred three weeks ago, there was peace, and there was no conflict until Hezbollah started it ... this time. They could have ended it, but chose not to.

***
I read a lot of the Arab statements through their media, and they are much more biased than the American media, in my opinion.

It's interesting that when discussing who is to blame for the latest violence (and even Arab states today blame the Hizballah for having crossed an internationally recognized border- not for the first time, by the way ) one hears that "Israel started it because Israel stole the land from the Arabs." Even ignoring the fact that Israel was built and established in accordance with decisions made by international organizations (like the U.N.) - what does such a statement mean? It means like Israelis like me, who have favored a return to the 67 borders more or less - in return for peace - have to admit to being totally naive and blind to the reality - that we will never be accepted in ANY borders. If any aggression against Israel is seen as justified in light of the "original sin" of Israel's having been established - what hope can we ever have that our neighbors will let us live in peace - no matter what our borders are.

When Israel withdrew from Lebanon to the international border, it was with the understanding that this would be a border between two countries at peace. Instead, Hizballah was allowed to take over the area and to repeatedly commit acts of aggresion against Israel.

The international community must come to the aid of the legitimate Lebanese government and work to end the rule of the Hizballah militia in the South of the country, which works against the interest of Lebanon when it attacks Israel over the international border dividing what should be two peaceful neighbors.

Thank you for your article about one sided press coverage. The situation is obscene and was accelerated by the invasion of Iraq. Maybe this is all part of the plan (not that there was any planning) of starting more wars in the area to sell US weapons to. Would someone please do a story on how much US intelllegence and weaponry is being supplied to enact the massacre of innocent civilians right now. What about the bombs Israel is using, designed to amputate body parts as they spray metal everywhere. The most absurd headline was "Bush sees this as a path to peace". When? When every civilian is obliterated. At least he spoke the other day surrounded by children, so you know how deeply trouble he is by the slaughter of innocents.

"I read a lot of the Arab statements through their media, and they are much more biased than the American media, in my opinion."

Yes, but in this chat you have shown us where you stand on the issue. Of course you find the Arab media to be biased. I bet you find some of the papers in Israel to be biased too.

There are always new rules of the game, and the unintended consequence of the current IDF military campaign is an emerging split between Bush and his allies over the Middle East. For Olmert to be accused of war crimes and to open such a rift in world opinion in such a short time is a veritable 'own goal'.

The big mistakes made throughout history are

1) To think that "we" are better than "them".

Jews are not better, nor worse, than arabs. Americans are not better, nor worse, than Japanese. Christians are neither better, nor worse than muslims.

Every people on the face of Earth can be easily brainwashed and led to commit attrocities. Once you start to believe, that you, or your people are chosen by God, etc, you make your first step on the road to Hell.

2)To think that you are stronger, and THEREFORE, you must defend yourself and crush "them".

While this illusion can work temporarily, in the long run, if you kill "their" children, then one day YOUR children will be killed. If you torture "them", YOUR children will be tortured (with the same justification). Somebody WILL have to pay one day for Hiroshima and Dresden. (Though not intended as such, Dresden was already a reprisal for killing Jews).

All the existing people, without exception, have a bloody history, in which killings, as always, only led to more killings.

So, who is to be blamed? It is absolutely futile to seek who has done what and when. The simple rule is: always put the blame on the one that is stronger, whoever he is. Our simpathy should be always with the weak, like in everyday life. And the only condition, when you are allowed to kill, is when you see a foreign tank in your backyard.

Will terrorism dissappear because we Americans go along with the excessive force against innocent civilians by Israel in Gaza and Lebanon.
GW Bush was understandibly upset about Saddam Hussein trying to kill his father. It looks like he will never realize that people are going to have nothing but hatred for those who kill and maim their own loved ones. Or maybe he thinks that some loved ones are worth more than others? More expendable maybe?

Americans would wake up and realize that these policies are morally wrong and not in our interest if they were given balanced reporting. Do we feel safer now from terrorists? Does the economic outlook look brighter? Or did the price of gas go down?
And likewise the jewish people who did suffer so much, would probably stop going along with the same collective punishment tactics used by the Nazis if they were shown the suffering and hardships caused on other people by the racist policies of the Israeli government. Is israel a democracy. Do israeli arabs have the same rights as israelis of european origin?

Shame on the american news medias for the lopsided reporting of the root problems in the arab israeli conflict and on the savage israeli adventurism and excessive use of force in Gaza and Lebanon. Show the american people the grief and suffering on all sides.Not just the israeli suffering.

Come on let's be fair. Show the real picture and let decent people on all sides decide what is right. We can then see if they continue to go along with the bloodshed or if they begin to question these policies .

Thom: The original article spoke of Muslum media which is why I mentioned it. True, Israeli media is biased too, but it seems to address more of the facts than the Muslum media does, in my opinion.
As to where I stand, if Israel had started the current situation, then I would stand against them.

Why begin your history in 1948? What about the slaughter of 67 Jews in Hebron in 1929? What about the rejection of the partition plan in 1947 and the attempt to wipe Israel off the map from the very outset. The miserable history of violence in Israel/Palestine would have been avoided if the Arabs and Palestinians had accepted the UN Partition plan in 1947. Other countries were partitioned (India - Pakistan).

Some 56 years after Israel has been established, isn't it about time to accept it's existence as a fact and to look for a solution based on mutual recognition? If you continue encourage those who see Israel's very existence as illigitimate and to justify the continued war to destroy her, you condemn the region to perpetual war.

Thom: The original article spoke of Muslum media which is why I mentioned it. True, Israeli media is biased too, but it seems to address more of the facts than the Muslum media does, in my opinion.
As to where I stand, if Israel had started the current situation, then I would stand against them.
(don't know why my last post came out as posted by Thom. My error apparently)

I accept Israel's right to exist (1967) as I am sure many others do.

Why is your(Israeli) government killing Lebanese children?

GW Bush has been quoted as saying that he wanted to bring democracy to Iraq because "democracies do not make war on one another." Well, here we have a (kind of) Democracy (true democracies do not have second class citizens) Israel, invading not one but TWO democracies.
Yet he sits by and does nothing and says nothing except that he hopes this war will lead to a lasting peace. The only way that will happen is if they, the I's, kill everyone in Lebanon, because anyone who is left alive will have many reasons and justifications to hate Israel. It's another Iraq, except that when the Israeli's go home, they will be right next door, not half a world away.

US Media biased? Of Course.

Even todays Washington Post Editorial has major factual errors.

It talks of an "unprovoked" cross border atack on Israel by Hizbullah.

Of course the first "unprovoked" cross border attack, after a long peaceful period, was a terrorist car bomb in the Lebanese city if Sidon, on May 26.

This was followed by a cross border artillery bombardment on Lebanon by Israel.

In addition Lebanon was also bombed from the air by Israel.

THEN two soldiers were kidnapped.

To say this was unprovoked is demonstrably factually WRONG.

American media and america is hijacked by right wing jews. What do you expect?.

Jews are evil? No. But they are certainly act like muslim extremists.

But there is a signal sent to all muslim nations. There is no saviour for them when they fight against israel. Either you come up with nuke and nuke israel or use some WMD weapon. All this suicide bomb is useless. it is look like mosquito bomb.

Every muslim country looking at this barbaric attack on lebabnon probably begging pakistan to give few nukes to protect themself against bully america and israel.

I would n't be surprised they all got few from pakistan.

I also seriously doubt america is superpower because of jews. They are smartest people in the world. Rest of america is living off hardwork done by jews.

No one dare to challenge jews in america because they will be wiped out. Even bush , if he goes against jews , he will be shot by mozzad masked as muslim terrorist.

WHat it really says is american people are stupid and jews media treat them as fickle and immature in not able to make decision on their own.

They are afraid that america will wake up and find out the truth.

It is like arrival movie. The problem though everyone in the world know america is a big jewsish state. All other people living in america are freeloaders!.

it is true. Brain comes from jews. My goal is not piss off people but the people in very powerful jobs are jews. They control and shape how american people think.

They use the americans anger against muslim to do create bigger jews country in middle east.

Then it wil be jews on their own will be super power. i seriously think they will wipe out all palestenians.

Then the world will know why hitler hated Jews. i always wondered why hitler hated them so much to kill them gruesom?. Now the same kind of act done by israel. They do it by noit giving food or life or land to palestenians. Smae result , different methods.

I think karma will come back bite them. The more israel do stupid things , more people in the world will hate jews.

I believe Israel is not playing its cards well. They ghave to be a victim , not aggressor of muslim. All these buffer zone will not guraanty their security.

Israels enemy is muslim states not this mosquito terrorists.

"As to where I stand, if Israel had started the current situation, then I would stand against them."

I guess that depends on what one determines as the current situation. History shows that the Jews in the British Protectorate, (Ashkenazi, which I will use as the beginning of the history of Modern Israel) were not fuzzy puppies, willing to sit quietly and wait for their chance to buy property and nicely ask the British to leave.
What did they do? Nothing Political, they turned to terrorism. Not just killing, but mutilating their victims, Arab and Brit alike. The Irgun, the Stern Gang, among others began the cycle of violence that has never ended. Who blew up the King David Hotel?
Since then, Israel's racist practices, (land ownership for one, voting rights for another) have consistently and completely destroyed any chance the Palestinians (and Israeli arabs) have had to live even a remotely normal life (read the WP article about the Bomb Shelters for Israelis, but 2 miles away none in an Is. Arab Village, Wednesday, I think).
So who started it?
Who has made it much worse than it has to be?
Who has had a better opportunity to end it?

ISRAEL

Seems like so many countries are calling for a cease-fire, and no one has any real solution for peace. No one (well, almost no one) wants war. But finding the real answers to peace is the real problem.

Looks like this conflict will be going on for weeks, so there will be plenty of time for debate. Meanwhile, there are numerous news agencies from other countries to get all of the different perspectives. I'm wondering if this conflict is going to tumble into Syria and/or Iran. Only time will tell.

The Gaza kidnapping was also labelled by some American media as unprovoked.

However after a 16 month truce with Hamas, Israel blew up a family of seven having a picnic on the beach. Henve the start of the current Gaza hostilities.

Israel have since killed over a hundred Palestinians, a large number of which were civilians.

Thom wrote: Who has had a better opportunity to end it?

I think that's the right question to ask, but I don't think the answer is Israel. Hamas and Hezbollah have clearly stated that their goal is to eliminate Israel from the map. No Israeli concessions will change this. Israel cannot end the conflict. Only Hamas and Hezbollah (i.e. Iran) can do so.

"I think that's the right question to ask, but I don't think the answer is Israel. Hamas and Hezbollah have clearly stated that their goal is to eliminate Israel from the map. No Israeli concessions will change this. Israel cannot end the conflict. Only Hamas and Hezbollah (i.e. Iran) can do so"

Actually, according to America's fearless leader, and most Israelis, the Israeli's have the best opportunity to end it, doing what they are doing. Of course that will only make things worse, as it always has. Kill one man, and his whole family will want to kill you. Multiply that by one hundred. . . well you get the idea

Perhaps my question should have been who has had the better opportunity to end it throughout history. . . a militarily powerful state (the proverbial 600 lb gorilla) or a fledgling democracy that has just gotten rid of one foreign power, apparently to make room for another, far more malign one.

Educated Americans do not hold racist views
in regard to people of the Middle East.
They know history and realize that Islam is not a religion of tolerance, despite vehement Islamic protestations. Centuries of warfare reinforce this opinion. That is not to deny that Christians have tried, since the emergence of Muhammed, to establish doctrines in the Middle East which are anathema to many---not all---citizens of the US. Up to this point, since the demise of the Puritan founders, we do not have a theocracy.

World need another superpower to balance the power.

I believe the only way palestenians can live safe is Iran getting nuke and blackmail israel to give what palestenian wants.

Israel knows it. That is why it wants to wipe out iran and syria.

Then israel will concentrate on pakistan nuclear weapons.

Israel become aggressor infront of world's eyes. its time is limited as israel wake up every muslim in every country. But no indiviudual can organize on their own and attack israel. Only muslim state /secret organization can do it.

The target is clear. Iran.

You will be watching in coming days about more propaganda against Iran in american media. Even iran says it is not interested in nukes and agree to proposal. You will watch America will try to humiliate iran and make them angry and revert to confrontational position. The idea is attack and remove nukes. Kill them and weaken them.

I know how rightwing jews in Israel think.

Aug 22 is the date iran will respond. I say it will be negative.

why ?

if Iran exposes itself that it is nuke free , Israel planes will pummel iran to submission for helping palestenians and hizbollah.

Iran weapons can't match american weapons. Even israelw ill start to occupy some parts of iran.

Iran knew this. WIthout umbrella of nuke , his enemies will not fear iran. So Iran will not give up their right. They will fight. They will try to bring more party into this fight. WIll they succeed ? we don't know.

I am just speculating how Israel and Iran behaves in future and how they act and react to each other.

Blair is bus's poodle. America is Israel's poodle.

"The simple rule is: always put the blame on the one that is stronger, whoever he is." (Alice)
Wow, THAT's a really clear-cutting criterium. How come I didn't think to it before?
So, let's see... This is Arabs vs. Israeli, right ? Well, there are about 50 arabs for each israeli; the cumulated territory of arab states is about 600 times the one of Israel (including the "occupied territories"). Arabs states have a total GDP 10 times higher than Israel's one, and spend for militaries 4 times more than Israel (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab-Israeli_conflict_facts%2C_figures%2C_and_statistics).
Of course, if we take into account non-arab muslim states (like Iran, for example), comparisons are even more appalling.
So the conclusion is pretty obvious, isn't it ?

Thom "As to where I stand, if Israel had started the current situation, then I would stand against them."

Israel DID start the current situation with a Mossad car bomb in Sidon on May 26, followed by an artillery barage on Lebanon, then air strikes.

The Olmert threatened more strikes on Lebanon, Likud suggested wiping Beiruit out, toxic chemicals were removed from Haifa Port in preparation for war.

Then there was the so called "unprovoked attack" by Hizbullah.

This escallation coincided with Israel blowing up a family of seven having a picnic on a Gaza Beach which ended a 16 month truce with Hamas.

The whole thing has been planned.

"Educated Americans do not hold racist views
in regard to people of the Middle East."

Putting this first in your post does not take attention away from the racist statement that follows it. Are you saying you are not an educated american? I'm confused.

The US media has hijacked the basic issues. That is nothing new. And Please do not ask why the US government is not like, accepted and even hated. When the US latest war equipment is used to assault innocent people and to impose lawless regimes. What anyone expects?
There are thousand of kidnapped, imprisoned peoples in Israel that have not been accused, judge nor defended and have been forgotten for 3 Israelites soldiers, that were armed and represented de oppressor?

I for one am really tired of the "blah, blah, blah" about how Israel violates the rights of others. Israel is a sovereign state and has the right to defend itself. Do you think if someone rained hundreds of missiles on the U.S. that the U.S. would retaliate, even if it caused civilian casualties? You betcha. When this is all over, if the Islamic Fascists win, journalists will be the first to die. Fascism is rather intolerant of a free press, ya know. There's food for thought.

"As to where I stand, if Israel had started the current situation, then I would stand against them"

I didn't say that. I was quoting Wolcott.

America has green lighted this war.

It has supplied the weapons for israel to commit atrocities against civilains.

It has paid for them.

Effectivelty, America is at war.

Which makes it inceredibly stupid (and dangerous for Americans) for Bush to say that wiping out civilians can be considered legitimate self defence.

This is especially so when American is so out of touch with the reast of the world.

Just look at the stunning front page of todays Independent UK
http://www.independent.co.uk/

The US media has hijacked the basic issues. That is nothing new. And Please do not ask why the US government is not like, accepted and even hated. When the US latest war equipment is used to assault innocent people and to impose lawless regimes. What anyone expects?
There are thousand of kidnapped, imprisoned peoples in Israel that have not been accused, judge nor defended and have been forgotten for 3 Israelites soldiers, that were armed and represented the oppressor?
There are Uniformed terrorist and those are the worst kind. They feel they have all the rights to brake all the laws because they use flags and gods too.

Umhangträger: "Israel is a sovereign state and has the right to defend itself."

I agree completely. However, defending oneself implies on one's own territory. As soon as one goes into someone else's territory, that is, by definition, an attack.

There are types of people in Israel.

Normal jews wants peace with palestenians once for all.

But also there is extreme right wing jews. Who thinks that the only way Israel is safe by creating big buffer zone around them. To do that they have to get rid of palestenians.
how do you get rid of them? Constant humiliation. Terror action. Even palestenians wants peace , the right wing jews do not want it. Their goal is eliminate all palestenians completely. It may look like Hamas did suicide bomb but you may never know it is mozzad is the one helping hamas to keep the fight going.

Israel is doing to palestenians the samething hitler did to them. In a different way. Both had same goal. ELiminate opposition completely.

I find this column and virtually every supportive comment to be a complete joke. The underlying cause for all violence in the region is Muslim intolerance of Jewish "occupation" of "their" land. Hezbollah operates virtually as a state-within-a-state in Southern Lebanon, and bases operations from civilian areas such that any defensive action by Israel is guaranteed to cause civilian casualties. This is then reported around the region and among socialist morons in Europe and elsewhere as if Israelis enjoy killing civilians. It is Hezbollah that does not care about Arab civilian deaths, because those deaths ultimately help their cause by fomenting more hatred of Israel. This puts Israel in a Catch-22. The Lebanese government is powerless to rein in Hezbollah because of popular support (i.e. the average citizen's hatred of Israel) throughout the region, and material and financial support from Syria and Iran. Civilian deaths are always a tragedy, but Israel has the right to do what it can to wipe out a terrorist organization dedicated to its destruction.

People are innocent. Only religious beliefs make them do evil things on behalf of beliefs.

If you want me to take side. I will take side of Jews. why?

Simple. Islam has serious problem with its thought process.

Islam do not allow people to have freedom of thought. Its goal is confine your thought to under the umbralla of allah and limit your thought to Muhammeds brain.He wrote koran.

That is plain stupid. They have to modernize Koran. They have to remove all offensive words from koran completely. Will it happen? No until some tragic things happen in the middle east to make these people think religion is for stupid people.

"It is Hezbollah that does not care about Arab civilian deaths, because those deaths ultimately help their cause by fomenting more hatred of Israel. This puts Israel in a Catch-22."

Doesn't seem like much of a catch to me. If retaliation causes hatred, don't retaliate, don't escalate.

Perhaps one of the most disturbing images coming out of this conflict is photos of well-dressed, smile-faced Israeli girls (age 6-8?) writing on artilleries (to be fired into Lebanon by IDF) with "with love" and their names. We have seen pictures of Arab kids posted as suicide bombers. Now this.

It is hard to be optimistic when all these maddenings from both sides continue.

Are they really just hitting civilians? How is it that anyone knows weather the dead are civilians or Hizbollah? Do Hizbollah terrorists wear uniforms like the military? No they do not. So what you might call a civilian may just be the right target. Everyone just makes speculations on this and no real facts are ever presented to anyone. I do not discount that civilians have been injured and killed as well, but how can you blame a military for retaliating on a position where the enemy hides out? All terrorists hide among civilians because they think the military will not fire on civilians. It is their chicken hearted way of fighting. If caught in the open they would grab an innocent civilian and put them in between the soldier and the terrorist. They are all cowards who cannot do more than blow things up and hide behind civilians, disguised as civilians. They will never be able to stand up like a man and fight. Instead they will endanger civilians and use spin-doctors in the media to make it look as if it were the militaries fault that the terrorist hide among the civilians.

The argument that instigation provides a sufficient justification to inhumane and possibly illegal acts is greatly flawed.

The argument is likened to what immature 4 year old children make when they are confronted about an argument or altercation; for instance when they claim validation by claiming - "Well he started it".

Furthermore, by the same argument, just brushing up against a person - a small possible instigation, the other party is somehow justified in murdering the instigator?

apparently, yes

Since the beginning of the 20th century, Wars of Attrition are always "won" by the beleagured for what should be obvious reasons:

all they have to do is survive;
they are already at their home;
it is the foreigner who must give up and leave;
to win means to kill them all - every single man, woman and child.

I challenge you "historians" to provide a contradictory example.

PeteR,

Israel has no right to exist. It is palestenian land forcibly occupied by jews. They are just trying to copy the american way of getting rid of all indians.

Israel does evil things to exist.

That being said if you ask me do you like world to be jewish world or muslim world?

I say jews world. You will still have sreedom thought and expression.

Muslims do not. They are barbaric. lawless. if you check the history , they kill their own wife, son to capture power. No wonder every majority muslim state has barbaric dictator.

That being said Israel provokes palestenians and hizbollah by hunting terrorists. Hibollah and palestenians just react.

There are normal jews who really , genuinelyw ants peace with palestenians. But there are mozzad and rightw ing jews keep provoking palestenians and hizbollah in the name of hunting terrorists and jail people.

Muslims are stupid people , they can't organize or galvanize their own people. They fight individually for non existant allah. These stupid arabs watching their own muslims die in lebanon because they are shias. Muslims are like remote controlled robots. Where is the remote? Koran.

Why are Americans supporting a theocratic state in Israel anyway? Invade the region, set up an interim government of both Arabs and Jews to formulate a non ideological constitution, and hold elections in a single unified country called.... mideastistan or something.

As a human being I am aghast at the way Israel has sought to punish the people of Lebanon and Gaza. But I am even more troubled by the US admin response of let's give Israel enough time to finish the job and then we'll call for a stop. This merely reinforces the Muslim view of the US as a dis-honest broker and an enemy of their religion. It strengthens the likes of Osama Bin Laden and fans the flames of hatred. This is another war that is not good for anybody.

It is funny these Stupid jordan's abdullah and Egypt mubarak did n't have guts to call off their ambassadors from israel. What a pity!. Afraid of free 2 billion / year loan from america to refurnish your palace?.

Pathetic Arabs!.

I don't like innocent civilians gets killed in the name of religious beliefs.

It is pure human stupidity!.

I AGREE WITH ZAIN. WE SHOULD INVADE ISRAEL AND SET UP A DEMOCRACY THERE. HOW ABOUT IT UNCLE GEORGIE AND DONNIE. WHAT DO YOU SAY?

"Muslims are stupid people ,"

Oh my. I can see oodles of intellect pouring out of your ears after a statement like that.
Psst, in case you didn't get it, I was being sarcastic.

Well, here come the nuts

I encourage Mr. Morley, just as an exercise, to go back to all the media outlets he quotes from today repeating the eternal refrain of Arab victimhood and report on their coverage of civilian deaths in Darfur over the last there and one half years.

It would be the shortest column he's ever written.

Stories about the genocide in Darfur, sponsored by an Arab government that has the full support of all other Arab governments, do sometimes appear in the Western press. Even The Post prints them sometimes -- though the paper's editorial page has done a better job covering Darfur than its reporters have. The Arab press prints stories quoting government spokesmen, and reprints stories from Xinhua and Reuters that quote government spokesmen. And that's it.

A couple of months ago a news director from al-Arabiya did a chat here on The Post's site in which he said that Arab media silence about Darfur was a product of deference to the Khartoum government. And there is probably a strong racial element involved as well. Sudan's genocidal war against civilians, which has produced deaths numbering in the hundreds of thousands, has after all been going on for over three years. That's a long time to sit on a story, and it stands to reason that the reasons for it are probably not pretty. But whatever the reasons, we ought to bear in mind the context of Arab media complaints about how Westerners value Arab lives less.

Who knows, even The Post may report on this someday!

This string is fascinating and terribly disturbing at time.In my estimation, Paolo and Pete R make the two most valid arguments. Clear, concise and relevant. Bravo to both of you! One thing is clear... this situation is tragic no matter what side you align with.

The reason world is chaotic because America is hijacked by religious fanatics.

I always laugh when people say Israel is a democratic state.

It is a 100% religious state just like any muslim state except that israel is rich because of america is dumping money and weapons.

For me i don't like to establish any RELIGIOUS STATE!. I am not against jews. Because people can have different views and opinions and customs. As long they don't enforce it on another , it is ok.

I don't want Israel to exist because the only reason as i see is that it will create wars and hate among everyone.

I equally don't like all muslim states as well.

No country should be based on religion. Religion should n't be part of governance.

Lets take these extreme case...Lets say all muslims states are defeated andonly Israel remains. Then israel take over all the land and become jews super power? And they kill all non Jews? De Ja VU all over again?.

Think about it. Never support religious state even if it is jews.

Humans are gone beyond religion. The only religion if any it has to be democracy and freedom of thought.

"If retaliation causes hatred, don't retaliate, don't escalate."
Yes: if somebody blows up your buses, and restaurants, and pizzerias, don't do anything. This way the "international community" will rush at your side, and the bad guys will be stopped. Just wait and see.
Or maybe you have already seen ? Some 60-70 years ago ?

Alex,

I do agree with you that Egypt and Saudi Arabia's remarks are just opportunism and a reflection of their deep rooted prejudice towards the Shia. Mubarak said something to the effect of the Shia in Iraq being the lap dogs of Iran (something very derogatory ill have to google the exact quote later). The wahabis in Saudi Arabia are probably torn between who to hate more, America, the Jews or the Shia.

seventy years ago, there were no busses, no pizza parlors, and I have no idea what you are talking about

Look, the US and Israel are both indoctrinated societies and here in the US, we are not even taught 20th century world history through high school. While Leon Uris', 'Exodus' was required reading for me in high school, I didn't learn anything about the Arab point of view until my third year of college, and I was a history major!

Look at the recent blackballing of Professor Juan Cole of the University of Wisconsin, when he was up for a position at Princeton. His pro-Palestinian views were considered so extreme, that there was a large, well-connected effort to quash his appointment. In the rest of the world, his views are well within the norm. We aren't even allowed to consider that perhaps there is another point of view in the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Also, look at the 2004 approval that our pedmorphic president gave Ariel Sharon to unilaterally build a security wall encompassing vast swaths of the West Bank. Internationally, there was a huge outcry. Here in the US, noone even noticed.

Another example is the recent Harvard study by Mearscheimer and Walt examining the impact of the Israeli lobby on US policy. Alan Dershowitz was attacking the authors before the ink was even dry and anyone had even had an opportunity to read the study.

Finally, Alex from the above post, I would encourage you to study a little more about religions before you cast such a broad judgment. Aside from some eastern religions and philosophies like Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism, all religions are in the mind/behavior control business and Christianity is probably the worst offender.

Where is OSAMA and His regular Tapes? Where is his regualr appearance?.

Let me tell you the truth!. OSAMA was dead long long time ago. Musharraf bliped it in media by mistake. Bush Muzzled his voice.

Why ?

As long as OSAMA is alive , Right wingers can use his name to instill fear and pass any legislation.

What about regular OSAMA tapes? Well. Do you relaly think CIA can't forge Osama's voice? CIA is in pakistan ...manufacting OSAMA's tapes in regular intervals and sent to ALjazeera.

It is very easy to dupe america if you can control the media outlet.

The LOW GRADE SIMMERING hatred that most of the world has felt for Israel as it killed and grabbed land in the name of "defense" HAS TURNED WHITE HOT. How smart are the arrogant Israelis? And do they think Americans, except the stupid duped Bush admiinstration will stand with them after this? (see Pew research above)
WRITTEN as the savage Israelis mass at the Lebanaese border
WRITTEN as Osama ben Lauden prepares to launch another message, that is, please God, hopefully only words.

Alex. Please stop posting. You're making an ass of yourself.

really discusses is that Jews _by definition_ are elitists and seperatists...

not that that makes them evil, but they are rather predjudiced in their own behaviour as "the chosen,"

that being said _Jewishness_ is ethnicity,

ethnicity, implies behaviors that come from an enculturement rather than an external abstraction like everyone in France _becomes_ french, or puerto ricans

Jewish ethnicity involves needing paranoia, being persecuted-as-a-way-of-life(aka the Woody Allen syndrome) and taking offense when rude primitive people act like _that_

to address the current situation and solve it would require a psychiatrist and world leaders from different philosophys and religions to discuss the morality of gawd and war....and convince the Jews, that perhaps they are part of the effing problem...not the solution

if the WTC was caused from an external source, which I don't see that it was...it seems to have been an inside job, most of the animosity would have been from the unequal treatment that Israel recieves in the Palestinian situation...

also invading Iraq for OIL may have angerfied a few fence sitters....

.

"If retaliation causes hatred, don't retaliate, don't escalate."
Yes: if somebody blows up your buses, and restaurants, and pizzerias, don't do anything. This way the "international community" will rush at your side, and the bad guys will be stopped. Just wait and see.

Paolo,

The problem is that the Palestinians look at Israeli actions historically as just that sort of justification for continuing their attacks against the Israelis.
Then you get into that vicious cycle of who dunit first and before you know it people are quoting scripture to justify their claims.

To Steve Shaw,David: Are you all afraid of truth?

One has to understand that Hezbollah has been hiding rockets in houses, paying civilians for their storage services. Hence the high number of civilian casualties.
The difference is that Israel is trying to minimize civilian casualties, while Hezbollah aims at civilians as its main target. Israel began this operation because its high moral standards dictate a rescue mission for those who where taken across an internationally recongnized border by Hezbollah, and because it has to protect its civilians from the ongoing attacks of Hezbollah and Hamas.
Israel accepted the UN Partition Plan, while the Arabs rejected it and started a war to wipe it off the map. The Arabs have done so several times over the past decades, and now Syria and Iran, under international pressure, are trying to use a proxy to do it again.
Israel will win because it fights a just war.

WHERE ARE THE QUOTES FROM ISRAELI NEWSPAPERS? WHY ARE THERE MORE ARAB AND EUROPEAN QUOTES THAN US QUOTES? IS THE WRITER BIASED?

What is frightening is the extent to which Israel -- like the Bush Administration -- lives by the credo that a display of reckless, indiscriminate force is the best way to cow your enemies into submission. It's amazing that Israel and GWB continue to think this is the way to victory since it has been shown so clearly not to be the case over and over, whether in Iraq or Lebanon or Vietnam. But what is more frightening is to think about how they might decide to display that power next. If invading Iraq and trashing Lebanon are fair game, who's to say they won't decide to just take on the whole region, just deal with this Middle East problem once and for all? As long as we're thinking big picture and not too concerned about minor short-term issues like, say, civilian casualties, destruction of infrastructure, etc., why not go for the touchdown?

I wish I was kidding, but if GWB himself was reading this, he'd probably be saying "here! here!"

Poor little muslims, they scream for holy war and then cry and soil their pants when it is served to them boiling hot. They want war but then hide behing their women and children and say "you can't attack us now", or "humanitarian crisis" or "let us now talk", or "give peace a chance". Your Iraninan and Syrian masters have dragged you into war and now you will suffer, and yes, muslim lives mean absolutely nothing to me as you are the enemy. The problem is not terrorism but the religion of Islam which we must excise like a cancerous tumor.

WHERE ARE THE QUOTES FROM ISRAELI NEWSPAPERS? WHY ARE THERE MORE ARAB AND EUROPEAN QUOTES THAN US QUOTES? IS THE WRITER BIASED?

It's called World Opinion Roundup, that's why.

Angus: "I accept Israel's right to exist (1967) as I am sure many others do.
Why is your(Israeli) government killing Lebanese children?"
Because the Lebanese government hosts the Hizbullah, who does NOT accept Israel's right to exist, and demonstrates his intentions with facts, while yours are only words.

It's wonderful to see Mr. Morley quote papers from all the Arab countries that typically allow their citizens no freedom of speech. Also, the wonderful European countries that where anti-semitism is alive and thriving. Once again, the Post proves its bias.

Alex -
Aren't you even a little embarrassed?

Mr. Morley - Do you even read these posts?

please by quiet, you're too controlling...and a nall

Since this blog is about conflict viewed through different lenses, let me refer all of you to this:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

Food for thought!

the Israeli's need psychiatric help and the muslims need some social skills, let's werk together to help them get what they need?

okay?

come on meshugannehs, oy veh!

Israel is a tiny sliver of land on the Mediterranean. Muslim lands extend from the Atlantic Ocean to continental India. Yet Muslims extremists want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. Israel has Muslim members in their Knesset but no Jews are allowed to even live in Muslim lands or the handful are a persecuted minority living in daily fear.

Enough of this Zionist entity rhetoric now mouthed by so-called Christians who can never forgive the Christ killers. Like the Crusaders of old they would gladly see every Jew die to avenge the stories repeated ad nauseum by their priests and ministers. But if they can't be wiped out they can be made to suffer for eternity. This isn't anti-Semetism it is a Christian Jihad against the Jews that lurks in their unconscious.

a good analyst from Long Island, perhaps he could counsel the Israeli people, or Dr. Phil,

and Miz Manners could work with the Arabic people, to teach them that killing should not be the first response in a difficult social situation!

okay?

and everyone is against me!

the fact that I have emotional issues and make everyone near me hate me, is not my fault, it's part of my ethnicity!

right.

Oh, but Islam is a religion of peace, remember???

to slap the womens lib movement person that said that every male was chauvinist, or the black guy hustling a woman with no respect for her accusing her of being predjudiced....this is the same schtick thatyou're using...knock it off

you're rude, and paranoid, you need to see a shrink...

I can't believe that someone really does not know what happened in Europe from 1933 to 1945.
I just wanted to point out that Jews have learnt at their expenses that when somebody says "I will kill you all" he really means it, and that if they don't defend themselves, nobody else will.
That's why they can be sometimes over-reactive (which I don't think they have been in this case).

Maybe the fundamentalists could actually evolve and enter this century where people can use language to communicate with each other. Instead, they remain in whatever century they're locked into where they can act like barbarians.

And now for some ethnic cleansing..

TYRE, Lebanon, July 20 - The warning came in the morning Thursday, a recorded message dialed to phone numbers in southern Lebanon. In flawless Arabic, it instructed: Leave now, beyond the Litani River that bisects the rock-studded wadis of the south. Don't flee on motorcycles or in vans or trucks. Otherwise, you will be a target. The message signed off simply: the state of Israel.

But leaving this southern Lebanese city Thursday was more complicated than a choice. Aid officials say that tens of thousands have already fled Tyre and its environs along the Mediterranean Sea but that perhaps 12,000 Lebanese remain stranded. The wartime circumstances of a besieged city keep them here: no gasoline for their cars, no money for taxi fares that have surged 75-fold, no faith in assurances from Israeli forces that have repeatedly attacked civilian vehicles and, most desperately, no hope of finding safety.

Where was all this anguish and angst from the state-run Arab press at the height of the Muslim suicide bombings in Israel a couple years ago?

Israel leaves Gaza and south Lebanon, and what does it get? More violence. Hamas, Hezbollah and their enablers, like the Lebanese who tolerate them, weren't interested in improving their nations when the IDF left. They were interested in starting more war with Israel.

Maybe when the Arab world stops blaming the "Zionist entity" and the U.S. for all its problems, it'll take its place at the adult table. Until then, it'll be a dangerous, evil backwater populated by zealots and their willing masses all to eager to commit murder.

Paulo -

At least you make sense here. Can't say that about everyone else!

This column should be better titled;

"World Pro-Terrorist, Anti-Israeli Roundup"

It's obvious who signs your paycheck with your extrememly biased column against Israel......
....not one comment about who initiated this military action by Israel and why!!!........
Many sources of information that describe Israel's actions in a slanderous light are unsubstantiated. Accusations such as killing [of civilians????] in defense of Israel's assault by terrorist thugs and murderers are unfounded and yet readily published by your gullible writers. I am ashamed of the Washington Post!

judaism, muslim, christian

dualistic, primitive religions

religion ='s dogma

belief system, not rational examination of the world as it is....

religion is a distorted lens...

ethnicity, includes what has happened to a group, it's history

you can be emotionally ill as a group.

.

Matt Wrote:

Angus: "I accept Israel's right to exist (1967) as I am sure many others do.
Why is your(Israeli) government killing Lebanese children?"
Because the Lebanese government hosts the Hizbullah, who does NOT accept Israel's right to exist, and demonstrates his intentions with facts, while yours are only words.

Posted by: Matt | July 21, 2006 01:12 PM

I don't get it Matt - are you saying that Israel is justified in killing Lebanese children because Hezbollah resides in Lebanon?

White Hot. By that logic, are we to believe that if Israel returned the land "grabbed land in the name of defense" (as a result of the '67 war) that all would be hunky dory??

Clearly Israel is not interested in land for the sake of having land - if they were, they would not have returned Sinai to Egypt in exchange for peace. It is ONLY for defense because no other surrounding nation is willing to commit to peace -- they have already outwardly expressed a desire to extinguish Israel.

If Israel had ever expressed a desire to extinguish the existence of Arabs, clearly they could have done it 20 times over by now - particularly the Palestinian refugees. The ONLY thing standing in the way has been compassion -- compassion for a people so poor. so uneducated. so manipulated that they strap bombs to their belly and explode themselves at Bar Mitzvahs on the promise that they meet virgins in heaven. so rejected by other Muslim nations (who claim to support them, but not a single nation has offered to take them in). And so desperate for leadership that they turn to rogue terrorist organizations who take advantage of them and the billions in aid that they receive from the international community. Don't believe me? Ask yourself how Yassir Arafat could die with a net worth of about $1B. That's B-B-Billion. Where did that money come from? He f'ing stole it! Rather than invest it in infrastructure of other projects that could help relieve the 70% unemployment rate. Unbelievable.

The irony of the whole thing (and forgive me for sounding like Bush who is generally a knuckle-head but is right on this issue - though again probably for the wrong reason) is that if the palestinians would have allowed the israelis to coexist within the same region in 1948 rather than trying to "push them into the sea" -- that tiny patch of rocky desert at the eastern edge of the Med would be an unstoppable, wonderful place to live, work, visit, and worship.

This ongoing middle-east conflict is one of the truly tragic and illogical stories in human history.

If most people are not _for_

Israels _behavior_ does that mean they don't like Israel, or just how they act?

does a preponderance of opinion saying that most don't back Israels actions have any influence or are you too stupid to look outside of your cloistered view, eh messhuganah?

the only voice you want to hear is agreement, grow up young man! listen to the world.

.

And thanks God once again for Paolo!

did Halliburton steal, $9 Billion? but since that's an invasion to buttress the finances of a few texas/saudi/uae others oil profits it's okay?

and did you bet the stock market in advance of the Israeli bang up david? are you one of the presidents favored for information?

.

for Paulo, so I don't have to learn to think...

as long as one person agrees with me, I can deny the rest of the world oh thank you Paulo, thank you....ewwwwwwwwwww

yuck.

.

Angus,
please don't pretend to not understand.
Israel does not "kill" intentionally lebanese children; lebanese children die because IDF tries to hit Hizbullah people which intentionally hide themselves and their weaponry between civilians.
And the lebanese government has allowed Hizbullah to use Lebanon as a base for waging war against Israel.

David -

Wonderful post you just wrote. Absolutely true, and I wish more people would open their minds and see reality.

One more thing I'd like to say in Israel's defense. Those of you who criticize Israel's lack of democracy. There have been anti-war demonstrations in Tel Aviv. In what Arab country are people allowed to demonstrate against the leadership? Can anyone tell me? Moderates in those countries are jailed and/or killed. And Israel's repressive?

over there, and Israel owns a good portion of them.

and so do the Arabs....

a dialogue consists of two sides _intending_ to reach a conclusion based upon understanding....

not having one viewpoint validated at the expense of the other...that is called debate

wanto play, you'll end up owing me your being

Truth is media is controlled by jews in the US, end of story. If arab americans owned major news organizations media and americans would have a totally different view. chineese media is more free than us media.

besides justify their position.

the muslim world sucks, so educate them, you people are exclusivist by prediliction, no one likes that

I don't like that in Bush, he's an a hole, it's not to admire

.

arabic hearthrob, the chinese media is magnitudes worse than the American media...

exaggeration is the tool of the kneejerk position supporter...you prove that you're a primitive with that rhetoric!

.

TruthHurts -
I'm laughing until my sides hurt. You MUST be joking!!! Arab media outlets omit the truth in their own countries. A moderate in those places can't speak the truth or they're jailed or killed off.

LET ME ASK ALL OF YOU THIS QUESTION... If the U.S. is such a horrible place with a media run by Jews, a war-mongering idiot president, bad foreign policy, etc. etc., why do SO MANY foreigners want to come here to live? Why are we having such huge problems with legal and illegal immigration? Why do leaders of foreign countries often come here for medical treatment? Could it be because there are actually postivie things about the U.S.? Could it be because we have a Constitution that actually attempts to protect the rights of our citizens? Your lack of patriotism for our country is astounding. Why don't you all go try and live in the countries you defend so vehemently in these postings and see how long you last. Your views wouldn't even be printed there.

No, you schmuck! Halliburton has nothing to do with this (I hate them by the way). I hate Bush too. He's a fool and a liar. And we'll be paying for his stupidity for 100 years. But he's too dumb to know the consequences of his actions. What amazes me is all the fence-sitters who voted for him not because they though HE was smart - but because they thought he was surrounded by smart people like Cheney and Rumsfeld (the real facists).

Call me crazy but I like the President to be the SMARTEST guy in the administration(But I'll save that for another blog).

Paolo said it perfectly. When the Arabs (or anyone) says they want to eliminate Israel or the Jews. They mean it. I may be a tree-hugger, and I don't like war, but I'm not going to sit back and make a put faith in the goodness of others -- least of all those who say they want to kill me!

It looks to me like an Israeli land-grab. The Israeli prime minister came to office promising a Final Solution to the "Palestinian problem", which means a unilateral drawing of borders and continuing to expand both the wall and the settlements. Will we next see Israel herding the Lebanese and Palestinians into Syria, not least because Israeli bombs will have turned the Occupied Territories and southern Lebanon into an utter wasteland?

you're a schmuck,

I know that the Arabic people would like to eliminate the Jews, and the Jews would like to eliminate the Arabs....

genocide is the tool of choice for warring tribal nations in the middle east....it's part of the Jewish ethnicity d.a.

.

Prairdog -
I think you need to take your head out of the sand. If Israel wanted land, it could have taken land many, many times before. GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT! Hezbollah is a TERRORIST organization that has the bloodshed of thousands of people WORLDWIDE on its hands. It is headquarted in Southern Lebanon and Beirut and has direct access to Israel's northern border. Do you really expect Israel to tolerate Hezbollah's TERRORIST activities without retaliation? Incidentally, rockets have been fired into Israel for years by these lunatics and our wonderful press has hardly covered that. Must be because our press is run by a bunch of Jews, right?

in their viewpoints, and genocide is what each would like!

so, now let's bring in the psychiatrists and work it out..........

get it? you stupid little penis sheathling

The current Israeli bombing and shelling are not revenge or collective punishment. It is also not targeting of civilians. It is called battle-space preparation. It is preparation for a major land invasion. The invasion may or may not take place for political or diplomatic considerations. However, the IDF has to carry out this preparation in order to give the Israeli cabinet that option. The cabinet will decide.

To I'm not a shmuck! -

Yeah, that horrible ethnic group of the Jews. People in every country around the world shiver in fear because of roving bands of those badass Jews terrorizing everyone. Jews in this country must be responsible for all the terrible things that happen here - - - crime, the stock market, the war in Iraq, etc. because of their ethnicity.

Is idiocy an ethnicity because you must certainly belong to that group!

look d.a. poster who wrote this:

"LET ME ASK ALL OF YOU THIS QUESTION..."

let me ask you a question, if something is not working well do you try to fix it or just say...

this is the way it is.

this president has single handedly, with the help of his fathers friends drag our reputation through the mud, dissassembled whatever was good about our economic system and sold our nation to foreign interests and a class....

I don't like that, and if you think I need to I think you need to realize that this isn't friggin Russia and people that steal rights from US Citizens are called treasonous...not friggin patriots

push off chubby

.

Do you people think you could leave the foul name-calling out of this blog? How about lifting yourself out of your petty and immature name-calling and having a real, intellectual debate? Anyone up for that challenge or is it too mentally taxing for you? (This goes out to "there is no difference" especially.)

a nerve mr connecticut?

please, we know who the idiot is and so does your father.

.

to Hello Simple Person -

It might help if you actually tried to make sense when you write in. Your point was completely lost. Oh - other than the low insult - - -guess you have to resort to that if you can't use your intellect.

US Media = PROPAGANDA Machine

(Yes, you too Washington Post)

The sheer arrogance of US media outlets in assuming that Americans rely on them to educate themselves about the mideast conflict is just mind boggling. They have no clue that their reputation is in the toilet with the public. They are in utter denial and think their attempts to spin myth in lieu of history is actually working outside of the Zionist community that wrote the transcript. They think we don't:

***** Watch BBC, read the Financial Times, Guardian and Times, Haaretz in Israel, Democracy Now, and the multitude of Israeli sites and see the barbarism of IDF to secure stolen lands.

***** Realize that our government (especially Congress) is bought and paid for Israel Lobby through unspoken threats of funding an opposition if they dared to speak up against Israel's brutal occupation (read Walt and Mearsheimer report).

***** Realize that Israel has violated Lebanese air, sea and border on numerous occasions including in May of 2006, and therefore the kidnap of a couple of soldiers was a mere pretex for invasion and destruction of Lebanon.

***** We are stupid and don't connect the dots and see how the Harrari murder to force Syria out of Lebanon was just the ground work in preparation of this invasion.

***** We don't see how our government is endorsing Crimes Against Humanity by refusing to insist on cease fire and pretending that the targeting of apartment buildings can be considered 'collateral damage' (over 300 civilians killed in Lebanon vs. a handful of Hezbollah fighters).

***** We don't see the utter hypocracy in blaming Lebanese government for having Hezbollah in the parliament without requiring them to disarm as if WE have not done the same in Iraq by including the representatives of insurgents in the 'coalition government' without disarming their militias.

***** We don't see how the barbaric actions of IDF in Gaza has been pushed out of our media coverage as if it weren't happening.

Yes Washington Post, the only ones you are fooling with your propaganda is yourselves. You are complicit in these crimes and the most pathetic part of it is that you are not only risking American lives with your bias but you are NOT helping Israel at all. Both sides deserve to live in peace and your propaganda in this country is a major reason lives are lost and children are killed by the dozens every week.

level? how about talking about genocide?

Aram -

You appear delusional. There are two sides to every story, and propoganda flies in both directions. Don't believe everything you read wherever you're getting your news from. Who's to say your media outlets are any more objective? It's amazing how people can twist facts from the sources in which they want to believe.

person...

you're right, you're obviously smarter than me, that's why it's so hard for you to understand the obvious.

from Matt:

"Angus,
please don't pretend to not understand.
Israel does not "kill" intentionally lebanese children; lebanese children die because IDF tries to hit Hizbullah people which intentionally hide themselves and their weaponry between civilians"

I understand full well that this is the rationale that allows israeli supporters to sleep well at night but it is a morally bankrupt argument.

So let's say I accept your argument that israel does not intentionally target civilians - I also think that it does little to mitigate the civilian loss of life...dropping leaflets and leaving voice mails telling people to leave or else is of little use when you have already destroyed the very infrastructure that would allow them to leave..also advising them to avoid using motorbikes vans etc as they may be targeted as weapon carriers or whatever is a thinly veiled attempt to terrorise these same civilians...and yes of course you will say this is the same terror felt by israelis every day ...while that is undoubtedly true..the difference is Israel and it's supporters claim to live and operate to a higher moral standard ....that fallacy has been exposed to the world over the past few days and I suspect the next couple of weeks or so.

Also let me ask you a question...let's say a plane is hi-jacked by hezbollah terrorists - on that plane are Israeli's, lebanese, Europeans, American's --- whatever really - let's just say human beings....would you find it justifiable for anyone to "accidently" kill the hostages/civilians to get to the terrorists?

Btw someone earlier said there are anti war protests in Tel Aviv - if thats true kudos to them as it shows that not everyone is a supporter of this madness.

who wrote this:

"
Yeah, that horrible ethnic group of the Jews. People in every country around the world shiver in fear because of roving bands of those badass Jews terrorizing everyone. Jews in this country must be responsible for all the terrible things that happen here - - - crime, the stock market, the war in Iraq, etc. because of their ethnicity.
"

what part of the above demonstrating the ethnic behaviour of the jews don't you understand?

vis a vis the Woody Allen Syndrome, We're_Persecuted_As_A_Way_of_LIfe

how are you Maury? "AtleastI'mnotdead"

jewish ethnicity is as much a cliche' as black ethnicity is....

.

so who's the idiot now, franklin?

MissColony,

As far as chicken/egg goes, I really hope you live in the US, because I could then respectfully request that you vacate your home and move back to whatever Old World country that your family (most likely, statistically) originally came from. Oh, and please write a long apology to American Indians for having your country steal/rape/slaughter/expell from them.

you don't like me 'cause I'm "fillintheblank"

my _behaviour_

has nothing to do with it the way _you're_ treating me?

Giving Americans What They Want?

This is like the chicken or the egg but much clearer.

US Media is giving Americans propaganda in order to shape minds. But in the age of internet it no longer works.

US Media would talk about UN Resolution 1559 without ever talking about the 60+ UN resolutions Israel has been in violation of for decades.

US Media would talk about "they are trying to erase Israel from the map" without mentioning that it was Sharon who shrugged off the Arab League proposal to recognize Israel by all Arab and Persian nations (yes, including Iran) in return for a viable Palestinian state within 1967 borders.

Get real folks, as time goes by fewer and fewer Americans are buying your crap.

The real Terrorists are Israel and america for being condoning the murder of civilians. Pathetic act worlds only super power.

I am the only one telling the truth from both sides.

What israel doing is warcrimes. America is playing part in it. There is not a question about that. What will hizbollah going to do against such massive force ? stand infront of pache and say kill me?.

Huzbollah captured those soldiers because israelis constantly attacking lebanon and no one reports it.

I don't really think Israel wants peace. It is just using america to expand and annihilate palestenians and even capture lebabon and wipe out lebanese.

All it is looking for excuse to nuke few muslim countires with american weapons.

Do not pity Israel. It is stronger than america. America is ruled by jews if you think clearly. They are in every powerful jobs exist in america. They control american life and thinking.

They wanted to make israel as next super power. All it needs more land. They are asking all jews in america to move to israel.

Everything i say is truth. No propaganda.

But at the same time if muslims wants to survive this onslaught , they have to change their thinking process. They still can be muslim but they have to modernize koran and give woman full freedom. Woman is mens puppet who-re. Woman are treated like mens playtoy. And they have to remove all offensive words from koran.

It is still astonishing for me to see that Jordan and egypt did n't call off their ambassadors to Israel. Pathetic.

Never condone the murder of innocent civilians even if they are your enemy.

I know lots of people say muslims does same thing but there is a difference. Muslim God is a frigging Book. They do not use their brain. Remoted controlled by the book. You can't expect moral behaviour from them.

But israel? I expect more smarter action...disappointed. They are acting like a thug by killing innocent lebanese.

Angus,
I respect your opinion, but mine is different and I hope you will respect it too.
Concerning your last question: my answer - VERY difficult to accept, even for myself - is "yes".

Perhaps the most egregious aspect of the American media - cable and print - is their willingness to expose the lack of leadership by the Bush Adminstration in even trying to broker a cease fire.

The Bush Administration and the senior officials haven't demonstrated anything more than lip service in trying to stop the carnage. We hear limp rhetoric from Condi Rice about how she will visit the area an appropriate time. (How many more need die or be displaced at an apprpriate time?) Stuff uttered about the right of Israel to defend itself by Bush directly and a disegenous concerns the suffering of the Lebanese and Palestians. Similar viewpoints are mouthed off in press conferences held by Tony Snow (witness the exchange between Snow and Helen Thomas). Amb. John Bolton's curt dismissal of the remarks by Kofi Annan yesterday further underscore the contempt exhibited by the United States towards the role of true diplomacy to tackle to very tough process of establishing of peace in the Middle East. I'm not surprised by all of this, frankly. The Bush Adminstration has demonstrated incompetence on all fronts during their 5 1/2 tenure at the helm of our government. Why should they be capable of getting the truly difficult jobs done when they couldn't even address a national calamity such as Katrina's response a year ago?

The lack of a leadership position by our government to stem the carnage will come back to roost upon the United states in the future. Future generations of Americans who see their economic and national security slipping away will come to ask "How did this happen to our great nation?"

Across the Middle East, the average person on the street - a key demographic where hearts and minds need to be won - sees our government's silence as acquiesence of Israel's aggression into Lebanon and the disregard for democratically elected governments by the peoples of those nations/regions.

The war on "terror" so sought by Bush and the Neoconservatives can not be won by military might. Israel will learn that folly of policy, tragically, too. If the root causes of anti-American sentiment need to be dealt with, they must come from the solution of the root causes which are creating such hatred toward us. This is were "smart" leadership and the role of diplomacy makes a difference. Time and time again, the political leadership of the United States has been unwilling to grasp the larger picture and has bumbled and stepped into the morass of failed policy choices driven by Neo-conservative ideology. These choices have been ruinous to our futures.

Lastly, no one cares to serve up the likelihood our nation has become the bully of the world. Other nations, in previous times, who conducted themselves accordingly we branded war criminals. Maybe it's time we all stopped pretending that our nation could never slip into a facist state and drag its peoples into situations that would cause us great calamity. I'm afraid we are at that precipice right now.

No one wants to hold the mirror up to our society and point to similar history that gripped Germany, Italy, and Japan. Our futures seem to be driven by the enormous influence of a small group inside DC whose only objective is further consolidation of power and the directive to enforce this by military means and ursurping the rights of all peoples.

Alex,

To paraphrase an earlier post, you might as well have written this in Arabic, my friend. Could have added "Heil Nasrallah!" at the end, too.

you're mixing apples and oranges.

muslims that think that killing in the name of gawd is right......are animals

American elites are using war as a way of coralling oil interests and controlling the stock market...

israeli people are sick because of years of persecution and don't know it....

arabic are often too primitive to care for people not like them

and Israeli are often to much in love with themselves to see the evil that they do to people who are not of their ethnicity...

slow down

Most of the media in the U.S. is pro-Israel, though I think it may be getting better. I watch Your World Today from CNN International, and their reporting is excellent. Brian Williams is very good on NBC, but his reporters reflect the usual Israeli and Administration bias in the media. Peter Jennings use to be the best because he kept the spin meisters off his program and analysis. Larry King remarked to him that it was rumored that he was pro-Arab. He didn't affirm or deny that comment.
I first noticed this bias at the beginning of the Israeli incursions into the West Bank and Gaza. CNN Initiallly showed all the suffering of both Palestinians and Israelis civilians because of the conflict. However, their talking heads were, among others, Richard Perle and Frank Gaffney, who were my introduction to the Neoconservative commentators on CNN and other Cable news channels. I quickly noticed that they shared the same view as Israeli spokesman that Israel should be supported because they are a Democracy. They didn't bother to change the wording of their statements. I was later rather astonished to find out that Perle was a former Assistant Secretary of Defense during the Reagan Administration. Well, apparently the suffering of the Palestinian people was not important, and it disappeared from the screen. But, the suffering of the Israli people continued to be well documented.
I switched channels to MSNBC, but, to my astonishment the only person on that channel who was fair and balanced on the Middle East was Pat Buchannan. As a Democrat, I never thought I would ever agree with him. Also, while he hasn't a clue about the Middle East, I have found myself agreeing with Lou Dobbs about free trade and outsourcing.
Most of the Talking Heads you see on CBS or NBC are conservatives or Democrats who voted for the war. The Democrats hired by NBC or appear on the Meet The Press are in that mold. Both parties have an Israeli bias, but Republicans tend to support the Right wing in Israel such as the Likud or Olmert. The Neoconservatives are out to destroy the Labor Party in Israel. Democrats tend to look for political solutions. They are either very naive or scared to death of the Israeli lobby.
However, there is no such thing as the Liberal Media. Along with gay marriage, accusations against the "Liberal" media are dragged out by Republicans as election issues. Of course, any criticism of the administration's policy is considered biased.

One thing you're all forgetting. The TERRORISTS do NOT respond to peaceful negotiations! In their culture, they view that as weakness. A show of strength is something that is necessary to prove to them that something is serious. We cannot project our evolved, Westernized views and social mores on people who are so barbaric and who place no value on human life.

You can criticize the American government all you want because you live in a country that allows you do to that FREELY. Millions and millions of people around the world don't even have that right. So, I hope you all appreciate what's going on here on this site. It's a forum for people to share their views, however horrible or great they may be.

If you truly believe things are so terrible here, I encourage you to relocate to a place that's better.

rather than Heil Nasrallah, it would have been better to say Hail Nasrudin, and relate the diamond hunting tale....

QUOTE ABOVE: "Indeed Americans are buGet real folks, as time goes by fewer and fewer Americans are buying your crap."

Buying less crap etc. Indeed. Foolish move of Israel to blindly bomb and kill and destroy so much in Lebanon - too many Western + Arab holiday people were right there, saw it all, had to be evacuated, and can now tell everybody when back home safely. I am a Western Person but clearly can see that Israel does not belong there - run by European Zion/Jews/Colonials. Give the land back to the Arabs and set up a new Jewish/Zion place near the North Pole - or better South-Pole (the further the better)!

is an American war on credulity, that asks Americans to give up their citizenship and ownership of their country to a group of elitists that would reestablish the caste system in the United States...

as far as the Hezbollah, to me they are an extension of primitive belief systems and an example of anger expressed...

I don't believe that the Israeli position is 100% correct nor do I believe the Muslim position...

fatwahs/jihads as part of a religion?

what kind of crap is that?

.

exclusivism in a religion? why did gawd create the rest of the world?

grow the eff up....

what a bunch of silly, little people....

Oliver Twist already wrote about your war in his book gullivers travels...

pathetic.

EHUD OLMERT IS A REAL TOUGH GUY. HE HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR ALSO. DID YOU SEE THE ISRAELI GENERALS AND HIM LAUGHING AND REALLY ENJOYING THE MOMENT WHEN THEY ARE PLANNING THEIR SLAUGHTER OF LEBANESE.

THE NERVE OF THOSE LEBANESE AND ALL THEIR HOTELS AND RESORTS. HOW DARE THEY COMPETE WITH THE CHOSEN PEOPLE FOR THE AREAS FEW TOURISTS.

The more I read, the more I think all you terrorist supporters are right. I think you should denounce our government, elect your own president, let the Middle East self-destruct, allow North Korea to do whatever the hell it wants to do and kill off all the Jews on the planet. Then I hope you can relieve your consciences when you're facing Mecca five times a day.

it's about wanting to remove competition...

don't be a bonehead...if anything it's an attempt by the US to defuse tension by letting off some steam...

how do you know that the US didn't create the situation to deflect criticism about the Iraq situation? or to defuse the Iran...

it's not always as obvious as it seems.

like for example, gold has been going up steadily recently.......

why is that? it was before the conflict...so either someone knew in advance of the conflict, which would mean it was planned, or there has been a new use found for gold

which is it?

come on all you smart people, let's talk about the obvious....

this isn't simply about the hezbollah and israelis is it?

.

Too bad I'm not a Western Diplomat. I would then agree with my Western Governments especially USA. Am just a private guy from Germany so must express my tru feelings. Welcome Back Hitler - so you are now Jewish - How is it living in Israel - nice weather there??!! In case you just woke up Hitler, when you invaded Poland, killed people, etc. that was before they had internet caffees in The Middle East, USA, China, even Hamburg. So get with it and change your tunes - with your present reincarnation you have just destroyed many Arabs and obviously the continuation of Israel. You'r gone - what I remember from 1930-1945 probably for the best.

saddened by all of you,

if a group has a belief that they are persecuted, don't they generate, project that persecution on the actions of those that might have a reason to be angry?

doesn't the wifebeater blame the victim?

gro up.

.

yes, that is the saddest thing...

"you become what you hate,"

there is a definite weakness to the Israeli position...it is not moral

neither is the arabic....jihad/fatwah...

what garbage, what primitives, so stupid.

.

WHO IS MINDING THE STORE???

Just a few facts to consider, as we pontificate the moral polemics of this Lebanon/Israel extravaganza:

1.The Middle East exports 5.3 billion barrels of oil per year. The current wars in Iraq/ Lebanon/ Gaza/ West Bank/ Iran adds at least a $25 oil premium.

That's an annual $135 billion dollar premium to the gentle folks in Saudi Arabia/Iran/Yemen/ Libya etc., from a grateful world.

2. The US imports around 60% of its total oil consumption. This works out to a little less than 3 billion barrels of oil imports a year. At a $25 per barrel oil premium that's a nice round 75 billion more greenbacks we are shipping out of the country each year than prior to the 2003 "Shock and Awe".

What the heck, we can afford it. We did prevent Iraq from poisoning us with its massive cache of biological weapons and simultaneously nuking us into a wasteland!!!

3. The US stock markets are slumping because the feds are raising rates to curb inflation. The oil prices are the biggest contributor to this fed inflation paranoia. The US stocks markets are capitalized at around 17,000 billion dollars. They have dropped at least 10% in the last year. That's a nice round $1700 billion dollars most of us folks no longer have to play around with. But what's a few hundred billions here or there?

4. Any folk's reading this have a mortgage? How are the payments doing!!!

Exactly who is being shocked and awed here? We need an Harvard MBA to run this country. Ooops, I forgot, the great decider already has that!

Well, it looks to me that the professional pro-Israel types who always jump on web sites about Israel (usually using false names) have left...given up in the fury of the anti-Israel onslaught. Good, a good sign. Except what's left are the little boy name callers who suppose they're "educating" all us dummies.
No reason to read these posts anymore...

To the incredibly witty "thanks to gawd":
Don't worry, I'm perfectly aware to represent a minority opinion - especially in Europe - but it's my opinion anyway and I thank God (and the Americans, who liberated us in 1945) for being still able to express it.
And I tried to cite FACTS (history, geography, news) to justify why, according to me, being pro-Israel should be the right moral choice, at least for an European.
Of one thing I'm perfectly sure: that an opinion does not become more "true" - or more "just" - only because there are more people sustaining it. Read "To kill a mockingbird" and you will have an idea of what I mean.

QUOTE: Are Americans being given a very different view of the Israel-Hezbollah conflict than their counterparts in Europe and elsewhere?

I have been watching FOX, CNN, NBC, etc. It is discusting, one-sided, and BORING. We see pictures of evacuated Americans on a cruiseship. They are totally in shock because the skipped lunch but fortunately can still push the baby stroller with a healthy and happy little kid. Show us the realities of war. In Lebanon, left behind, blinded teenagers, mothers that lost both legs, fathers that were killed, etc. That is what Israel did to more than one million innocent people there. That is Israel. Now USA get some real BALLS and show the truth.

Has we forgotten what war is? Until we agree to fight in fenced fields, civilians will always die. As Sherman said. "War is hell."

Go back--way back--Persians and Greeks, Alexander the Great, the Shia-Sunni schism--war, war, war--all long before there was a U.S. or Isreal.

The important question is how can this battle be stopped?

CASSANDRA,
HOW ABOUT THE RUSSIANS WHO ARE LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK, THEY'RE PUMPING OUT MORE OIL THAN SAUDI ARABIA.
THEY LOVE THE FACT THAT WE ARE STUCK WITH GENTLE GEORGE AS OUR PRESIDENT.

Hahaha!.

I am not lebanese. But someone has to tell the truth.

You can't tell the truth in the media. They will come after you . Take away even your social security.

Why democrats are afraid?. Simple. Israeli lobby. If they go against israeli lobby , democarats will never come to power for another century until people become anti-jew.

I am not supporter of muslim but i don't condone the murderous killing of civilians even i am provoked.

If you relaly check the history the evilest act commited by any country in the history of human kind has to be america. HIROSHIMA and NAKASAKI!. Who was behind that act. Jews.

Why syria is silent? simple. if it gets involved israel won't jsut defeat syria. It will kill millions of civilans and occupy syria.

Israel wants more land.

who has enough integrity to keep their hands out of the till minding the store...

I guess,

I'm wondering how much of the government is being used as the private resources of this group of men/women in the executive branch, complicit congress, stockmarket insiders and _complicit congress_...

it seems pretty easy for me to understand that bush isn't comfortable being watched or examined....vis a vis oversight...

he has placed his cronies in position of oversight, because he doesn't want any...

negroponte, cheney, rumsfeld, gonzales, brownie, family friends...his dads boyz, from cia/mafia dayz

people that "won't rat him out," and are in on the heist...

democracy in the middle east, yeah, right...that's what it's all about....2nd largest oil reserves in the friggin world...uae/saudi/iraq/turkey/transafghanistan pipleline/bridas corp...blah blah blah

NSA spying for terrorists? what terrorists?

NSA spying to get the edge on other financial institutions? more than likely...

face it, you've got an addict for president.

can you trust an addict alone in your apartment when you've got a collection worth billions of dollars.....dream on...

your apartment will be empty, your collection will be gone and your reputation with the other people in the building will be in tatters because you let him stay there....

that is the analogy

.

From Matt:

"Angus,
I respect your opinion, but mine is different and I hope you will respect it too.
Concerning your last question: my answer - VERY difficult to accept, even for myself - is "yes".

Posted by: matt | July 21, 2006 02:28 PM "

Fair enough Matt - I respect you for being honest - there is not much of it on this site.

going off the deep end a little bit, don't know where you live but maybe you need to quit blaming the jews for everything...

the arabs are all about fatwahs and jihads, what's that? that's crap

World need another superpower to counter America. Then world will act sane.

No one have the guts to tell america. Why? No more money for you.

Blair knows this. That is why he becomes Bush's poodle. He even buys sweater for george. Blair is a coward!.

This is the most boring blog I've ever seen! You're all in agreement and the name-calling is silly. What a bunch of intellectual midgets! I'm outta here...

How many of the people writing in here were born in the U.S.? If not, where are you from?

how about incompetent george?

James in Pittburgh, how's the steel industry? goin good?

it's not all us against them James....

how's the blue collar folk doing James?

who did the President fool to get elected? the intellectuals with his

homophobia/patriotism?/gunsforgawd bs?

how's the blue collar world JAMES????

you nitwit.

.

Well said P.J. Casey...

Israel would be best served by voting their 'angry old men" out of politics...war is old men sending young men off to die on their behalf to settle old scores..

The Likud party and The Republican Party seem to be one and the same (and of course the Likud lite Kadima party)..

as to how many people posting here have American Aborigine blood in them...eh?

I know I do...how about the rest of you slithey toves.

.

from Milan, everyone has a right to a position, that doesn't make the position right......

when one side has to win over another, there's always going to be hard feelings...

I learned this in 3rd grade, why haven't the people in the middle east, including the Israeli?

because in tribal warfare, genocide is the solution? it's been used a lot...down to killing children...

perhaps, how many middle eastern people do you know? that are actually from the region, not just with ancestry there?

.

Alex -

If Israel wanted more land, why did they give the Sinai to Egypt? Why did they attempt to give Gaza to the pathetic Palestinians? You are so misinformed. I hope that at least some of the people reading this blog are intelligent enough to sort through your ramblings and make their own decisions. Of course, it seems like everyone on this site has the same opinion anyway.

Hey,

I am blaming the killing of civilians. I will do it even if you are a frigging GOD. never mind it is a israel.

Islam is a virus. It is a known problem. You have to deal with it secretly. Read all my posts.

What i say is there is a difference. Israel should not act like Muslim extremeist.

Things has to be done secretly. Killing of civilians shows open hatred for lebanese and complete disdain for their lives by israelis.

It is ugliness. if this continues world will become antijew instead of antimuslim.

Bad move by Israel if you ask me.

it is a badmove by Israel, that's enough to say,

making up bs about Jews being behind the bombing of Nagasaki or Hiroshima is juvenile and ruins any good points you make.

.

you can not do it secretly, you have to publically say they have an emotional illness...

and they blame the world for their problems while they have a bad attitude...

you must do this publically,

you must also tell the muslim people that having a religous belief that war/jihad/fatwah can be holy is a load of crap and must be condemned at the same time.

.

Israel wants more land for sure if they can control it. The issue for them is how to move all the jews from america to israel. They want to get control of oil muslim countries.

They do not want land with muslims. they want just land.

You will watch it as Israel attack any muslim country ruthlessly. The idea is not defeat or protect israel. The idea is kill as many muslims to make empty land.

Why did they kill so many labanese civilians? why?

Simple. They don't want land with labanese. that will be a trouble. They want empty land and create settlements and then more rockets fall on thse settlements and they keep attacking neigbours.

As fars as palestenians concerns they will wipe them out.

Are you really think those suicide bombers are Hamas? Not all of them. Some of them mozzad organized.

Israel wants these war continues until they get complete land. They will keep blaming palestenians for terror attack when mozzad is the one helping to kill own Israelis for greater good for jews.

It is not a conspiracy.

When will america have independent Media like BBC?.

Land of freedom do not have FREE MEDIA!.

posting on the media? are you being blocked?

It's clear that our US administration regards Israeli life as of much greater worth than Lebanese life. This was directly stated by US ambassador to the UN, John Bolton, when he stated that it was not morally right to compare the loss of civilians on both sides of the border. To our administration and our biased media in the US: Enough manipulation of the truth, enough covering for atrocities, enough encouragement of war crimes, enough acceptance of violence as means for political settlements. To realize the severity of civilian casualties on the Lebanese side, check out www.fromisraeltolebanon.org

gotta go...one side can not win _over_ another

I've read through so many of these posts, and I'm amazed how so many of you seem to think that Israel "stealing" land from the Pal's justifies the terrorism the Arab world inundates Israel with on a daily basis. Israel is a reality that Arab Muslims must come to terms with. Do you know the kind of indoctrination that young Arab children are raised with? You throw around the words "hatred" and "racism," but do you know how these children are taught to hate and loathe Jews? There is an abnormal fixation within the Muslim World on eliminating the Jews. This is no surprise to Israelis, who know that if they laid down their weapons tomorrow, there would be no more Israel. So many of you sanctimoniously judge these people, but have nothing to say about the brutal barbarism committed by terrorists. Does Nick Berg ring a bell? By letting of the hook scum like those who blow up their own people in markets, or gleefully carve the heads off of non-combatants, many of you seem to imply that the Arab terrorists just cannot control themselves and are by nature, violent and brutal. How anyone can morally equate savage murder specifically for the purpose of killing innocents, to a nation defending itself against terrorist guerillas is beyond me. Terrorists don't want peace with Israel, they want to wipe her off the map. Is that really too hard to understand?

American people are hypnotized and controlled by jewish media outlet. No wonder 47% support gruesome killing of children. WoW!.

So can we call americans murderers? These polls may be correct. It just shows american people are uneducated fools who can't go in the internet and read the news.

Religion is evil!. It makes one humans to kill the other for stupid beliefs.

Islam is an example of every religion has its age. Islam time is up.

Other religion has to die as well.

Lets go to TITAN. Think about antigravity vehicle.

The only way humans will stop fighting is make those religious crap invalid. To do that humans has to travel beyond our galaxy and settle in another planet.

Then all this crap about caste/race crap will go away.

Sc,

You are wrong!. 100% completely wrong!.

Muslims are saints. Blah.

Everyone knows the problem with Islam. But there is also problem with jews. One good example is american media. Why not tell the truth how many innocent lebanese children were killed by Israel?. why?

Simple. Both sides are evil. Jews will do more gruesome act if they gets a chance.
They did it last 6 days. And they escaped.

I don't think calling muslims as terrorist is not the right thing.

yes they have their own ritual. It is expected from the people who live by book written by another stupid human.

What i don't don't expect is smart people in america and israel condone the murder of labanese children. That is out of control.

I have suspecion about Israels motives. Israel do not want peace at all. That becomes clear. Israel wants to control egypt, iraq lebanon and syria. All it is waiting for NUKE WAR.

So expect Mozzad do a WMD attack on israel then blame it on Syria and Israel wipe of Srian people. Israel wants land without people.

Israel wants more land to become next super power before they eliminate everyone else.
Can happen in next century. Never count out that possibility.

But also there is general muslim problem. Koran has to be modernized to fit to this century.

Alex,
I wanted to thank you for completely ruining what was a halfway decent discussion. Are there any other posts you are making so I can waste my time trying to muddle through them. Could you put your posts in all capital letters so I know when not to read something.

Seriously, as has been asked once before, Have you no shame?

Or are you just lacking a brain and the ability to type a thought in more than one sentence

what the heck is it working

The Arabs (Muslims) will hate the jews forever, the conflict will last forever. There will never be a solution. Allah hates Yahweh both in turn hate God. All these guys should become Buddhists. Walk around in their orange sheets and sing hare krishna. The world will become peaceful.

Muslims Hate Jews. Jews Hate Muslims.

World hate Jews!. But they can't do anything about it.

World loves everything jews make including ic chips , holywood movies...etc

HAHAHAHA.

World should be thankful for jews. Especially people in america. The church and state separation happened because of jews?

Or America will be another religious fanataic christian extreme country?.

Without jews there will be no freedom of thought.

Freedom of thought has only one restriction. Never be a anti-semite. Thats it. That is easy.

Think about it.

-----WORLD TRIBUNE: "Israel is Stunned At The Failure of It's Air Aar in Lebanon". And has called up reservists and old men, to get even.
IT IS PERFECTLY POSSIBLE THAT THE ISRAELI
ARMY WILL BE DEFEATED IN LEBANON.
Speaking of sweet justice. The cheering on this planet would deafening!

Everyone talks about Israeli "civilians" being killed. The only civilians in Israel are younger than 18 older than 55 or in a yeshiva or an orthodox jew. They are the only ones who are not military reservists. Therefore, though they may not be wearing a uniform when they are killed, they are most certainly not civilians. keep that in mind when "civilian" deaths are reported.

This does not excuse the killing, but makes things more interesting when the Lebanese actual civilians are murdered.

Hitler I'm frustrated. Your punishment in 1945 was to be reborn in 1946 as a jew and live in Israel - I named you Olmert. And guess what, you're doing the same thing again - killing innocent people. Your country in 1945 had to pay a nasty price. Well same thing will happen again. My mistake. Must be getting old.

The one poster who wrote that, although a student of history, he was unaware of the Arab side of the story until his third year of college. This general lack of historical perspective combined with skewed coverage makes it very difficult to find out the truth. (Let's face it, too, though: most people all over the world are only interested in whatever it is that is fed to them. Goodness gracious! Searching for the truth involves actual work!)

In this particular case, the facts are that both sides are commiting atrocities by targeting civilian populations. NPR ran a story today citing the UN investigating the murders (UN terminology utilized in the story) in this conflict.

Someone mentioned that the UN created borders. Yes, but they were badly created based on political considerations of, mainly, the colonial powers. Not only did they carve out Israel and divide Pakistan from India, as the poster(s) pointed out, but they divided Africa up as well, leaving tribes divided, some of whom live in three separate countries and otherwise surrounded by traditional enemies!

And speaking of war, we will unfortunately have "war and rumor of war" until primarily there is a world government in which all countries vow to retaliate against an aggressor. So, something like the UN, but with all countries having an equal voice and the "peacekeeping" forces are actually a "Foreign Legion" that goes against agressors - and with all nation states giving up all personal arsenals except for those necessary to quell crime. Perhaps 100 years from now?

Oh, and about the world religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc.): all were given by God (Allah, Yahweh, the Great Spirit) to better man's life on earth. If everyone went by the precepts of these Faiths (without all the shiboleths that ignorant humanity hadn't heaped upon the original, pure message), then we would only have to deal with disease as crime and war would not exist! How much better the world would be if we could spend our military budget instead on education and commerce and ecology and...

Bottom line: with the world government combined with people having a religious faith that they abide by, we would actually be living in a "heaven on earth" and the "lion would lie with the lamb". Perhaps in 500 years? Until then, we look upon a world that will continue to be fraught with injustice and, therefore, conflict.

Thom. So since virtually all Israelis serve are in the reserves they should all be considered combatants? That's the rationale that makes a suicide bomber entering a bar-mitvah justifiable, right?

please...

The same rationale that says it's ok to go to the '72 olympics and murder a few athletes. "hey, their in the reserves..." right?

not once have i seen anyone take it from a humanitarian point of view. lebonese, israeli's or palestanians at the end of the day you are loosing the life of another human being. has the value of life of human beings gone down with the stock markets of the world.

David,
First of all, read my post, and do NOT put words in my mouth (on my keyboard) that were not there.

second
You have fallen victim to a wonderful deception. None of the athletes at the Munich Games were killed by Palestinians. They initiated the kidnapping, but according to the Police and anti-terrorism units that were there, as well as independant autopsies, both Palestinians and Israeli atheletes were killed by Uzi rounds. Then the helicopter exploded. It's a good thing the Israelis were just trying to rescue their athletes at exactly the same time as the atheletes were killed, and the helicopter exploded, because we all know that Israeli military personnel never use the weapons they invented.

Good thing they didn't make a movie about that part. Israel may have lost some friends if anyone found out they were lying about that, like the USS Liberty, the family on the beach . . . do I need to go on?

On MSNBC (on Tucker) during an interview a representative of the Israeli Peace Party (didn't get the name) thinks they need to "hit them so hard to make them want peace". If this is Israel's party, don't you wonder what rightwing is like?

They have been so brutal and barbaric through history and never wanted to sign a peace treaty and settle disputes once and for all in any of their wars.
Why? Because that would mean having to give back occupied territories.

Moshe Dyan, who was their decorated thief of antiquities (google it up), admitted to having instigated Syria into hostilities because Israel wanted the "fertile" land of Golan. Syria has approached them for peace talks on numerous occasion (google it) and they have laughed it off.

So what to do to avoid peace? "Demonize Syria' and anyone else who asks for what's theirs back, and create situations that will start regional civil war. What do they have against Syria? Support of Hezbollah and Hamas which are "terrorist groups". Why terrorist? Because they want their lands back and want to be INDEPENDENT. We support Israel at $3+ billion a year, so why are we surprised that another nation is supporting a just cause? That makes Syria evil. Yeah, right.

If you want to hear unbiased views, turn on C-SPAN and read papers in Europe, Israel, Australia and even China. You won't see headlines saying Swiss UN rep has been saying Israel is in violation of International law or see that country after country have been repeating the same including SAUDI ARABIA who said the abduction of the soldiers were used as a "pretext" to wage war.

Israel has already lost the war in the hearts and minds of all decent people across the globe.

I knew how low Zionists can sink when I learned they have been the ones who lobby US Congress on behalf of Turkey to suppress the passage of Armenian Genocide. At no avail, decent Jews themselves have shown outrage considering how well oiled their Holocaust industry has been.

The media routinely reports that this latest episode began when Hamas kidnapped an Israeli soldier. The fact that the U.S. and Israel, champions of democracy, refused to recognize the democratically-elected leadership of the Palestinian people is never mentioned. The fact that Israel kidnapped political leaders from Hamas is never mentioned as the start of this conflict. Why? Not because it has no bearing on the events that proceeded it; but because it is not in our government's interest for the people to consider this.

Please, go on...

I geuss Daniel Pearl was a combatant too? His reporter's pen was really a zip gun, right? Wait, don't tell me... it was actually the mossad who cut his head off with a israeli-made cleaver. right?

Please, go on...

I geuss Daniel Pearl was a combatant too? His reporter's pen was really a zip gun, right? Wait, don't tell me... it was actually the mossad who cut his head off with a israeli-made cleaver. right?

All these comments prove, one more time, that the world only loves Jews when they are being murdered. The Israelis remember the Holocaust (the real one) and don't give a hoot about anything other than protecting their population from murder.

The same mentality that flew planes into the Twin Towers is driving the jihadists in Gaza and Lebanon. There is absolutely nothing the Israelis could do.. other than killing themselves.. that would please either Hezbollah or Hamas. The only way to deal with these madmen is the way Israel is doing it. It is a shame the US has been trying to fight this war against Islamist terror on the cheap; otherwise the Israelis would have a real ally.

Let's not forget that these Europeans are the descendants of the French who turned a blind eye to Hitler until he invaded France, and the Spaniards who were enamored of Franco and the Italians who chose Mussolini. Why would any Israeli have any respect for the opinions of any of them? When did they do anything but tolerate, if not promote, anti-Semitism.

So Frank...

Seriously...under the circumstances, what IS the best way the best "to cow your enemies into submission"?

Before you answer... Consider how Hamas and Hezbollah are trying to cow their enemy (Israel) into submission. What makes theri tactics different / justifiable?

Well said, Rich

An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind. people of the world follow different religions, pray to different GODS and yet everyone claims that there god is better than the others. you get what you believe, belif is the most powerful religion. so i think we all need to believe that we can live peacefully with each other. at the end of the day, the blood of every human being is RED in color.

Thom -
You really need to stop spreading LIES on this site. Some of the events you describe have been proven historically, and you are doing everyone a disservice by spewing your hatred and your inaccurate comments. Please cool it.

To Bernice Vetsch:

We actually gave Israel $3 billion of aid last year not just hundreds of millions. In fact, since Israel's founding, we had given them a total of $140 billion in 2003 dollars.

Rhodo -

Your comments really show your humanitarianism. It's okay if the Israelis die but not the Hezbollah TERRORISTS. Geez - - - what's with all you people???

YMC -

Yeah, so? We give the Arab nations plenty of money for oil. I guess it's terrible to have an ally in the Middle East where we can use their bases if need be, a place to support the closest thing to a democracy in the entire Middle East. What a terrible thing.

HUMANs-

I like your comments, and it's a shame the entire world doesn't think the way you do. Tell it to the suicide bombers and the terrorists. They certainly know that the color of people is RED.

As a long time employee of the media, the quickest way to the unemployment line is to be critical in any way of The Jews. The racist propoganda we are fed daily is no surprise at all to anyone who has worked in the media, particularly television.

Only the US can stop the violence by cutting off all funding to Israel until they withdraw from the settlements in the West bank and East Jerusalem. The Israelis will drag their feet forever and bring us more terror by association for years to come if we do not act decisivley.

Remember, Osama Bin Laden said that he conceived of the 9/11 attacks after seeing the towers in Lebanon fall the first time Israel Bombed lebanon to the ground. What new horrors are the Israelis massive over reaction creating for the US in the minds of the legions of new terrorist recruits that their actions will inspire?

Call your local politicians and demand that we dissassociate ourselves from Israel until they stop they withdraw from the settlements completely and quit the occupation. If they come to believe that towing the AIPAC line equals political suicide, then you will quickly see peace in the middle east.

J

Israeli soldiers use civilians as human shields in Beit Hanun
Report, B'Tselem, 20 July 2006

Palestinians inspect the ruins of their house that was attacked by Israeli forces, who withdrew from Beit Hanoun, northern Gaza Strip 18 July 2006. (MaanImages/Wesam Saleh)

B'Tselem's initial investigation indicates that, during an incursion by Israeli forces into Beit Hanun, in the northern Gaza Strip, on 17 July 2006, soldiers seized control of two buildings in the town and used residents as human shield.

After seizing control of the buildings, the soldiers held six residents, two of them minors, on the staircases of the two buildings, at the entrance to rooms in which the soldiers positioned themselves, for some twelve hours. During this time, there were intense exchanges of gunfire between the soldiers and armed Palestinians. The soldiers also demanded that one of the occupants walk in front of them during a search of all the apartments in one of the buildings, after which they released her.

International humanitarian law forbids using civilians as human shields by placing them next to soldiers or next to military facilities, with the intention of gaining immunity from attack, or by forcing the civilians to carry out dangerous military assignments.

B'Tselem has demanded that the Judge Advocate General immediately order a Military Police investigation into the matter and prosecute the soldiers responsible for the action.

Chronology of the Events

In the IDF's Operation Summer Rains in the Gaza Strip following the abduction of Cpl. Gilad Shalit, engineer, artillery, and infantry forces made an incursion into Beit Hanun, a town of some 32,000 people in the northern Gaza Strip, early in the morning on 17 July. According to the IDF Spokesperson, during the incursion, "IDF struck approximately twenty armed terrorists." The announcement added that, "Forces also carried out engineering work to harm terror organizations' infrastructure and hamper their activity, and arrested a number of wanted men... During searches, forces discovered three Kalashnikov rifles, a carbine, a pistol, and ammunition."

Around 6:00 A.M., troops in armored personnel carriers and bulldozers drove up to two adjacent four-story buildings in the middle of the town, near the a-Nasser mosque. The bulldozers destroyed the concrete wall around each building and then destroyed one of the external walls on the ground floor of each of the buildings. The extended Kafarneh family lives on the bottom three floors of one of the buildings. On the fourth floor are the offices of the Ramatan Palestinian News Agency. The 'Ali family lives in the other building.

Part of the force, twelve soldiers in the estimate of one of the witnesses, burst into the Kafarneh building through the area where the wall was destroyed, firing stun grenades as they entered. At the time, there were 25 people in the building, including 11 children. Some of those present were from the 'Ali family who left the adjacent building when the military entered Beit Hanun. The soldiers called all the residents to gather in the living room on the ground floor, and then searched them. Threatening the occupants with his weapon, one of the soldiers ordered 'Aza Kafarneh, a 43-year old woman, to accompany him to search each of the floors in the building and to open the doors of each of the rooms. At the end of the search, the soldiers ordered all the occupants, except for three, to leave the building. As they left, there was a heavy exchange of gunfire between IDF soldiers and Palestinians. In her testimony to B'Tselem, 'Aza Kafarneh related that, in light of the situation, she requested the soldier to let them remain in the building, but the soldiers refused. "We had to lay flat on the ground and crawl to the neighbor's house..."

The three who were kept in the building were two of her sons, Hazem, 14, and Qusay, 16, and her nephew, Khaled, 23. The three were taken to the staircase, at the entrance to the third-floor apartment, where the soldiers were located. The three sat there until around 8:00 P.M, about 45 minutes before the soldiers left the building. During this time, soldiers inside and outside the building were engaged in exchanges of gunfire with armed Palestinians. The staircase was not in the direct line of gunfire. Just before the end of the incident, the soldiers ordered the three to go downstairs, in front of them, to the entrance of the building.

At the same time (around 6:00 AM), other members of the military force had seized control of the building in which the 'Ali family lives. The only people in the building were the mother, 'Ayesha, 60, and her three sons, Hazem, 29, Tareq, 25, and 'Emad, 41. 'Ayesha 'Ali was taken into an interior room on the ground floor, where she stayed with her hands tied until the end of the events.

The soldiers ordered her three sons to undress and then searched them. The soldiers then cuffed their hands behind their back and blindfolded them. According to the testimony of Hazem, the soldiers tightened the cuffs intentionally so as to hurt them. One of the soldiers kicked him in the chest after he complained about the pain. However, when his hands began to swell and bleed from the cuffs, another soldier put a new pair of cuffs on his hands.

'Emad, who serves in the Palestinian police force, handed over his personal weapon at the beginning of the events, in response to the soldiers' demand. Another member of the family who also serves in a Palestinian police unit was not present at the time. Soldiers searched for his weapon, but they did not find it. During the search, the soldiers broke a lot of the family's furniture and caused great destruction in some of the apartments.

Following the search, one of the soldiers took Hazem's cell phone and called four persons whose numbers were in the phone's memory. The soldier told each of them: "If you want Hazem, Tareq, and 'Emad released, bring your weapons." According to Hazem's testimony, the four persons work with him at Ramatan and were selected at random; none of them have any weapons.

Around 8:00 A.M., the three men were taken to the staircase next to the third-floor apartment, where the soldiers were gathered. The three remained on the stairs, their hands cuffed behind their back and their eyes covered, until 8:45 P.M., when the soldiers left the building. At a certain point, one of the brothers, Tareq, moved a bit, and a soldier hit him in the chest and threatened to kill him. While they sat there, an intense exchange of gunfire took place between soldiers in the building and armed Palestinians outside. In contrast to the situation in the other building, many bullets entered the staircase area via the window and struck the wall, above the heads of the three occupants. One of the brothers, 'Emad, was taken by the soldiers at the end of the incident and remains in Israeli detention.

During the events, 'Aza Kafarneh was in contact with B'Tselem and asked the organization to help attain the release of her family members who were being held by the soldiers. A B'Tselem staff member, Najib Abu Rokaya, called the IDF's District Coordination Office in the Gaza Strip and warned them about the incident. The soldier on the other end of the phone referred Abu Rokaya to the DCO's legal advisor, Captain Haim Sharbit. After Abu Rokaya spoke with him, Sharbit said that he could do nothing about the matter because "we are not familiar with the incident."

Legal Background

The testimonies taken by B'Tselem indicate that the Israeli soldiers who took over the buildings used the occupants as human shields. They placed civilians on the staircase, next to the rooms where the soldiers were located, with the intention of deterring the armed Palestinians from attacking the building and/or so that the civilians would be located between the soldiers and the armed Palestinians, should the latter manage to penetrate the building and try to shoot them. The soldiers used one of the occupants to open the doors of the apartments, apparently out of fear that other persons were hiding there and would open fire when the door was opened.

International humanitarian law, which states the rules applying in armed conflicts, requires the sides to distinguish between combatants and civilians, and to protect the lives and dignity of civilians. The Fourth Geneva Convention, in Article 27, states that civilians who find themselves in the hands of one of the parties are "entitled, in all circumstances, to respect... They shall at all times be humanely treated, and shall be protected especially against all acts of violence or threats thereof..."

Article 28 of the Convention expressly prohibits the use of civilians as human shields by placing them alongside soldiers or military facilities, with the hope of attaining immunity from attack. The official commentary of the Convention refers to this practice, which was common in the Second World War as "cruel and barbaric." The Convention, in Articles 31 and 51, also prohibits the use of physical or moral coercion on civilians or forcing them to carry out military tasks.

Despite these prohibitions, for a long period of time following the outbreak of the second intifada, particularly during Operation Defensive Shield, in April 2002, the IDF systematically used Palestinian civilians as human shields, forcing them to carry out military actions which threatened their lives. It was not until a High Court petition was filed by Israeli human rights organizations opposing such action, in May 2002, that the IDF issued a general order prohibiting the use of Palestinians as "a means of 'human shield' against gunfire or attacks by the Palestinian side.'" Following this order, the use of this practice declined sharply. However, according to IDF interpretation, assistance by Palestinians, with their consent, in warning a wanted person hiding in a certain location is not deemed use of a human shield. However, this practice was also outlawed following the ruling of the Israeli High Court of Justice that this practice is inconsistent with the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Clearly, then, the IDF's treatment of the Palestinian occupants in the two Beit Hanun buildings flagrantly breached fundamental rules of international humanitarian law, as well as IDF regulations. B'Tselem wrote to the military's Judge Advocate General and demanded that he immediately order a Military Police investigation regarding this incident, and that he prosecute all those responsible for these illegal acts.

I would appreciate a reasonable, intelligent, well-educated person to explain to me what it is about Islam that causes some people to become bloodthirsty, fundamentalist terrorists. I know that Islam as a religion has many positve attributes, but I am trying so hard to understand why it draws people who become so violent in the name of the religion. This is a phenomenon all over the world, not just in the Middle East. Anyone care to respond?

is it necessary for us to take sides in this conflict, cos you cant clap with one hand

J -

If only it were that simple. What you're proposing is not just giving up land but ridding the world of Israel. That's the real issue, and anyone who denies it isn't being honest. No, worldwide peace will be achieved only when the whole world faces Mecca for prayer.

Angus -

We may not want to admit it, but these things happen all over the world every time people are in conflict with each other.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

As usual it is left to Jeff Morley to bring even a vague whiff of objective balance into the insular cesspool of propaganda our domesticated media has reduced itself to.

While I understand the motives of both sides in this conflict and recognize the age-old circular cycle of wrong, I find it interesting how little I knew of the Lebanese casualties until reading this column and its links.

Relying on our domestic(ated) American media for a week I had gotten the vague but "comfy" impression that the Israelis were just knocking out bridges and roads. Oh, occasionally a civilian was injured in the process. No clue that the death toll was even in the hundreds.

But what else would I expect from the lapdogs who are still talking about sporadic outbreaks of "sectarian violence" in Iraq, when over 150,000 civilians have actually died there since we thought it would be neat to invade?

And the media who lifted nary a finger to point out that Saddam and 9/11 were unconnected, while the president was hard at work convincing 70% of the public that they were?

Or the lame scribes who never cite the multiple analyses that show only 5-10% of the insurgency is composed of Al Qaida-like foreign fighters? Every time George Bush chants "we are there to fight the terrorists", these hapless tools just pass that piece of helpful information along.

Whence comes this naive expectation in me that one morning they will wake up and remember what their profession is about? Shame on me.

Angus - It's amazing that you consistently criticize Israel's government. So you'll use an Israeli media outlet for your benefit. The fact that a group like B'tselem is allowed to exist and print its reports is evidence of many freedoms that exist in Israel. Especially freedom of speech, which hardly exists in the Arab countries.

NoiseCancellor -
Peter Jennings (pro-palestinian)
Mike Wallace (regarded by many as a self-hating Jew)

Hardly examples of failures in media.

Terrorist activity around the world must never be justified or condoned. Those who perpetrate it need to be rooted out and their organizations destroyed. Are we Americans going to wait until it happens again on our soil (as it will)? Did we learn nothing from 9/11? Terrorists do not respond to a lessening of arms, to negotiations, to anything that smacks of weakness. Unfortunately, it's strength that works. And, why doesn't anyone want to accept that Hezbollah MUST take some responsibility for throwing civilian lives in danger by hiding their weapons and planning attacks in civilian areas?

Is anyone else here reminded of the German retaliation masacres in occupied Italy during the waning days of WWII? There was at least one village where, in response to a German soldier being killed by a guerrilla attack from the local Italian resistance, the German commander ordered the cold-blooded execution of 50 men and boys from the occupied town.

Hezbollah kidnapped two soldiers. Hundreds of Lebanese civilians have died in response. That'll teach em. Worked for the Nazi machine, didn't it? How well we learn from our abusers how to emulate them, no?

The media groups in the USA has the most free reign of any media organization in the world. They have consistently said and done whatever they want in an effort influence the American people. The news groups in Arab nations have the same agenda. There is no such thing as an unbiased news organization, anywhere in the world. Mr. Morley needs to move to the Middle East and become converted to "Radical Islam" if he wishes to influence his readers.

B2O - This issue is not just about the two soldiers being abducted. And Israel is not purposely targeting civilians. If they just wanted to annihilate the Lebanese, they would have already done so. I guess it would be better if Hezbollah remained in Southern Lebanon and shot their Iranian-supplied long-range missiles into civilian areas in Israel and killed innocent people there, right?

"I know that Islam as a religion has many positve attributes, but I am trying so hard to understand why it draws people who become so violent in the name of the religion."

The same thing that causes "Christianity" to drive a person to terrorism. A combination of ignorance, hatred and circumstances. There's nothing special about Islam in that respect.

20/07/06

To:
Mr. Ehud Olmert
Prime Minister

Mr. Amir Peretz
Minister of Defense

Re: The assault on the civilian population as a result of the IDF military operation in Lebanon

We are writing to you in order to express our concern about the ongoing and severe suffering that has been imposed upon the civilian population in Lebanon.

http://www.acri.org.il/english-acri/engine/story.asp?id=323

B20 - You could not draw a worse, more insulting analogy. It simply doesn't apply. In the last 40 years Israel has made numerous exchanges of captured terrorist prisoners for their own soldiers. And the ratio has always been on the order of 100:1. No longer. No more putting terrorists back into circulation to do more harm. It hasn't worked in the past. Time for a new strategy. Seek and destroy

I asked for a reasonable, intelligent and well-educated person to respond.

GO ISRAEL!!

CB:

"Oh, and about the world religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc.): all were given by God (Allah, Yahweh, the Great Spirit) to better man's life on earth. If everyone went by the precepts of these Faiths (without all the shiboleths that ignorant humanity hadn't heaped upon the original, pure message), then we would only have to deal with disease as crime and war would not exist!"

With all respect, since I sense the good intentions in your post, we will never have "heaven on earth" until humans everywhere give up this fairytale idea of a stern but benevolent Magic Man in the Sky, and start taking responsiblity for our own actions right here on earth. We can live in war, or we can live in peace. No 2,000 year old work of fiction is going to facilitate making the right choice. We have to actually do the hard work of growing up as a species. No way around it.

B2O - We can live in peace only if we have partners in peace and everyone has the same idea of how to live that way.

"I asked for a reasonable, intelligent and well-educated person to respond."

You mean you didn't get the answer that you were looking for, which I gather was:

"There is something special about Muslims; it is likely genetic. They react to their circumstances in a way quite peculiar to their species. Clearly they are fundamentally infused with Evil, where people of other faiths are by default infused with Good. People of other faiths only do the horrible things that THEY have done because they are left with no choice. Whereas Muslims curiously jump readily to do bad things simply because they are genetically predisposed to random and irrational violence."

There, is that better?

B2O - You stupidly made assumptions that I never even considered. I don't think the way you do. I'm not filled with racism and hatred. I'm not looking for any special answers, although I was looking for an answer from someone other than you.

Bush thinks he can have credibility with the government of Sudan in stopping the genocide in Darfur when he gives green ligth to Israel to slaughter the Lebanese civilians.

Sometimes I feel like the White House is occupied by people who want us to look worse then Israel so Bush will have to put up and shut up no matter what they do.

In response to "":

Well, I'll keep writing and you are free to skip right over my post. My response to your question was in (probably vain) hopes of getting you to back away from your apparent assumption that Islam was somehow unique in that way long enough to examine it. If you didn't mean to imply that, correct me because it's hard to divine anything other than that from your question.

Islam, like all the other Vehicles of Organized Superstition, draws people who need a Divinely Endorsed cloak in which to hide their prejudices and angry crusades. That there are more at the moment using Islam specifically for that purpose probably speaks more to the sense of oppression people in that area of the world have felt after living under centuries of colonialism.

But every religion draws its Holy Warriors. Look at all the regular Christian Bible services given for those people who cold-bloodedly invaded Iraq. Why does Christianity draw such violent people? Intelligent (ie, confirmatory) responses only, please.

Don't worry, someone will come along soon to validate your prejudices.

B2O - You have some type of giant boulder on your shoulder. Please don't put your issues on other people. And I will correct you because I've been asking that question for years and years and have yet to receive a real answer. I'd love to know what you do believe in besides the utter futility of humnanity. See? I can make wicked assumptions, too.

Wolcot is the dumbest and blindest creature I have ever seen. Can you not see what this is all about? NO! its not about the blame game - its about protecting human lives and civilians. Hesbolah captured two soldiers, well Israel had 2000 pows before, and now has the entire palestinian cabinet in custody.
It is not about who had been right or wrong but about not escalating the tensions and prevent any further loss of life.

Just a curious observation:

I work in a busy downtown DC hotel where hundreds of government officials, employees... from all over the U.S. pass by daily, but the comments that I got were nothing like, "Oh dear God, have mercy on the lives of civilians!" or something of similar content. Rather, the major concern was, "Oh my God, the price of gas will go up!"

Lets get real on a few things.....

> All humans have their biases based on life experiences and their own insecurities... as such everyone is racist at some level.... but some people take it beyond a relative, reasonable (average) level. To assure that all Americans are racist & unsophisticated is just plain dumb... there has to be at least a few that aren't, no?

With that said Americans do tend to be a fickle group, that is easily swayed by emotional discharges and do hold a number of long held world views... where Fair is better than Dark, North is better than South, Christian is better than non-Christian, Judaism & Christianity have common roots but not Islam etc., One other area where this is painful clear is in the Mexican Immigration debate... and which some emotionally charged pundits upset about a growing Mexican cultural influence in parts of the country that were previously insulated turn & twist data & "facts" to fit their message... and have created a largely Anti-Mexican propaganda... undermining the hard core economic evidence etc.,

But, I have to make the point that the U.S. is also home to some of the most cosmopolitan, self-criticizing, open people on the planet.

> Is the U.S. dominated by Jews? No, that is a ridiculous statement...but the reality is that Jews have played a disproportionatly large role in U.S. media. And their lobby is - more quiet - but significantly stronger than even the Miami Cubans. With that said, the U.S. media & government does - without a doubt - tend to favor Israel over Palestine & other Arabs.

> Does this U.S. media & government bias fall solely on Jewish media bosses and their lobby... the answer has to be no. But it is a big factor...and it is further exacerbated by the average American's utter ignorance of history & world affairs... an unfortunate side effect of the consumerist machine + media overload.

> Who started this conflict? Putting the blame solely on Hezbollah is immature, uninformed & plain wrong. With that said.... I am not going to blame Israel either. I think both sides share the blame.... its a losing battle.

But, I will take the position that Israel has gone way too far. The civilian deaths & injuries, the billions of $ of damage inflicted on the recently rebuilt Beirut... and all the good that assasinated PM Hariri had done for that country is all down the drain. When you you read about the systematic destruction of Lebanons infrastructure (Power Plant, Bridges, Retail Districts, Factories etc.,) its hard not to come to the conclusion that Israel is attempting some kind of siege or economic collapse... and if that is the case then I think this warrants 'Crimes against Humanity' trial for Olmert as well as forcing Israel to pay for reparations (even if it means coming from my paycheck since we all know that Israel is heavily subsidized by the U.S)

If Israel continues this mass destruction with impunity, I would be inclined to hope that France (which has some ties to Lebanon) would offer to step in & militarily subdue Israel.

"And I will correct you because I've been asking that question for years and years and have yet to receive a real answer."

Aw, and you were just asking an innocent question, I see. Well, I seriously doubt I'm the only person here who read transparent disingenuity into that one. If you don't have a message you were meaning to convey there (Hint: "I'm completely objective, but it seems like Islam - and only Islam - attracts murderous sociopaths; why is that?") then I'll eat my hat.

I'm not sure but it may be the word "bloodthirsty" that gave you away. Clarify for me, if only this: the people who have committed atrocities in the name of Christianity and other "divine faiths", weren't exactly *bloodthirsty* then were they, just maybe wrong? Like they were good people who just messed up when they tortured and raped and slaughtered for God. But we'll save the dramatic, downright vampiric terms for the religion we are trying to "ask an innocent question about". Please. I've run into to too many of you trolls on the web since 9/11 to have much patience with it.

"I'd love to know what you do believe in besides the utter futility of humnanity. See? I can make wicked assumptions, too."

Well I guess so. Go back and read my post again. It was a statement of *empowerment* of humanity but *futility* of the childlike superstitions our species is still drawn to. My words literally and metaphorically carried this message, and I think quite clearly.

WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE?

SHOULD WE EXPECT THE NUKING OF IRAN NEXT?

It is an eye-opener of great significance watching the deference with which Western Media and statesmen treat Israelis blatant aggression in Lebanon.

Western show of polite concern and helplessness for Lebanon in its hour of great need, is as if the hapless Lebanese were struck by an ongoing earthquake or tsunami and not by a vicious military machine.

Israel will take heart. Israeli military and politicians must be wondering how far they can go wreaking havoc in the Middle East without incurring any serious consequences for the Jewish state.

I WONDER WHETHER ANYBODY IN THE WEST WILL DARE RAISE THEIR VOICES IF A COUPLE OF NUCLEAR BOMBS WERE LOBBED AT IRAN.

Why can't Americans criticize Israel? Because we have all been taught that ant-semitism is the most evil thing in the world. No matter what the Israeli government does, no matter how many women and children they slaughter, no matter how much damage they cause, no matter if they invade Lebanon and turn it into another Gaza, no matter how many billions of dollars they take from the American taxpayer - we can't criticize, because then we would be truly evil human beings.

Christina -

"Oh my God, the price of gas will go up!"

Welcome to America, the land where all that matters is the nose on your own face. George Bush can revise the Constitution, shred treaties, effectively dissolve Congress with quiet "signing statements", lie up and down to the country about a threat and cause over 100,000 deaths in the bargain, and drag our reputation and treasury into the mud. But his approval ratings will track faithfully with the price of gas.

Translation: "I don't care none bout dat cityslickin' Washington stuff, I jess wan' cheap gas fur ma SUV sos I kin stil 'ford a new bigscreen TV evry year."

B2O - Your need to resort to name-calling undermines your ability to make your message heard in a clear and intelligent way. I've finished my dialogue with you. I hope you can control your rantings during future postings. Good luck.

Blah! Blah! Blah! More complaining, whining, etc. Why don't you leave your nice, comfortable homes here in this horrible country we inhabit and put your critism of everyone else to good use elsewhere? Maybe you can make changes in the Middle East since you're all so full of good ideas. Make sure you annihilate the Israelis first since they (and then the Americans, of course) are the root of all evil in the world.

Why have people been labeled as anti semetic,if they challenge a media conglomerate which is owned by jewish interests.When those conglomerate shape there editorial page to appease zionism.Because what is a jew with out its belief in the return of jews to the middle east.So to say you are anti semetic because you challenge the fairness of the jewish owned press towards arabs is ludicrous. when jews are fighting arabs we get the opinion of the editor.Who owns the washington post,who owns the new york times who owns cnn.Do you think for one second that they would be fair in there discription of the middle east.They have an agenda as a jew to serve the interest of there brethren.It is not that it is a crime,it is the nature of the beast.We ridicule the arab press because of there uneven reporting, but it is no different then zionism.They both have there cause they both have strong religous undertow,they are both bent on self preservation,they both feel they are gods army.Our press our senate are so wound up in calling every one who opposes zionism a terrorst,you would get the impression that jews love arabs and arabs hate jews.Ive met an equal number of both that hate each other the same.To read the old testement shows equal hate.The jews and arabs feel that they are the only civilisations in the world.I liked it better when i was in the bush,before i heard that jews were the chosen,and hagar the slave would have a child that would forever fight jews.For 25 years i did not know the bible stories,it was a different time.I could see now why the missionaries were so quick to put us on reserves and label us savages and devil worshippers.To watch the middle east i could see what kind of love and compassion we never had.Wow are we learning alot about being civilised.Im not saying the cree didnt fight the huron but to say we were savage, compared to what.To see bush and harper with there british roots stand behind israel is so refreshing.They should be the ones to tell the world that 3 million white settlers can and will live in the middle of a billion arabs.Are bush,blair, balfour, and harper related or what.I mean why dont we have some local chief offer his view of the israel palestinian conflict.Get another side from america and canada.Before these conquering religous fanatics took control.The world is about control and power.It just has different headings.Christians,islamists,judaism,They all say they are right.Every one wants power it is the theme of man,from the oldest cave paintings untill now.

This article is incredibly offensive to Americans.

I think one big reason for all this mess, and the logical unbalance of media coverage in the US is that US economy, thanks to excessive profit seeking outsourcing of many of its (once traditional) industries, has focused more and more over time expecially to the large economic sectors of a) weaponry and b) oil.

Both find their most profitable business in the middle east, and here they go.

With all the money spent for war and destuction in these countries, both jews and palestineans could long live a comfortable life free of shortcomings, free of the hence resulting hatred, and door to door in peace with each other.

But this is not the way the money should go. Political decision makers rather let weaponry industry earn it, and Mr. nice guys such as Exxon and Haliburton. Citizens have a voice every four years when it comes to elections, but they have no lobbying in the 1460 days in between.

Europeans don't suffer this economic sector bias that much, and, of course, this also results in more balanced news coverage. It's old wisdom that if you want to keep someone stupid, you just cut him off from communications, and mass media is one of these most influencing your opinion: What you see and what you here must be right, otherwise you wouldn't see it and hear it, uh? US media is mastering in this field, as an automated matter of fact caused by economic reasons as described before. There's a filter of self-censorship when it comes to hurting your own economic interests, or at least those of your weapon and oil industry.

Use the internet, the blogs, and the foreign media. Get wise. It's easier to ignore uncomfortable facts, but it won't get you anywhere.

I am a proud citizen of the United States of America. I love my Arab bretheren. I love my Jewish bretheren.

The answer isn't to blame, or accuse. Accusation is a distraction. In this case, we have two tribes with astoundingly rich histories that have been in conflict since the second's inception. Conflict not necessarily being war, but at odds. The lists of "who is in the right" are so long that rhetoric from them are tiring. Both are correct and neither are correct. Both have caused atrocities for thousands of years. Leave the blame game. Try letting go of the dogma. It's hard to be free-thinking when encased mentally in a dogma.

Both sides have scripture and tales that say, in short, "if you don't believe or follow our religion, then you will suffer/die/be cast into fire." If you want to live in peace, prove it by acting peacefully. If you want to have people understand your faith and religion, then tell them in positive ways! Show them greatness by _being_ the greatness. Those who were truly great in your histories embodied the greatness of their religions.

People believe what they want to believe and hear what they want to hear, regardless of what side they are on or who's right. There is only sadness here, there is no right or wrong. There is a great deal of anger here, which is the second stage of grief. Only one of the groups has completely dealt with their grief- the Lebanese themselves. They understand. They see the writing on the wall. They denied that Hizballeh and Israel would clash again. They were angry that it happened. They tried to bargain with both not to fight. They cried when the rockets and shells started flying.
It doesn't matter who is "right," they suffer.

As for the article: The author claims 50 sources, but why only Europe and Middle Eastern? No bias? Where was the eastern Asian media in this? Southern African media? South American media? I guess to get a real "World Opinion Roundup" you'd need more information.

The lesson of this blog is that you simply can't trust any media. None at all. Not your own, not someone else's. Not radios, TV, talk shows, or opinion columns. You can't trust the internet- look through this thread. All viewpoints are here, based from truth and fiction, belief and first-hand account. Everyone believes they are right. The truth you away take merely bolsters your own pre-existing beliefs.

Made an error. I don't see a claim to 50 sources. My apologies to the author and the thread.

Made an error. I don't see a claim to 50 sources. My apologies to the author and the thread.

Hats off to Mr. Morely You are a true Journalist.

Keep it up my man.

Hats off to Mr. Morely You are a true Journalist.

Keep it up my man.

"Angus - It's amazing that you consistently criticize Israel's government. So you'll use an Israeli media outlet for your benefit. The fact that a group like B'tselem is allowed to exist and print its reports is evidence of many freedoms that exist in Israel. Especially freedom of speech, which hardly exists in the Arab countries."

Actually I did not get this from an Israeli media outlet. The fact that B'tselem is allowed to operate gives me hope that not all Israeli's are vengeance driven likudists ...thats the thing a lot of you guys don't get - it's not about hatred for Israel - its the insane policies that are the problem - deep down you all know that Olmert went too far .....because he does not have the "military" credentials of some of his predecessors he is willing to allow himself to be led by the crazies to show he has "cojones" ...at the end of the day it's virtually impossible for Israel to come out of this with any honor ...even if nasrallah is smoked ala uday and qusay ..Israels policy of rage has created a whole new generation of "haters" in Lebanon - the funny thing is that Lebanon was probably the best chance Israel had at having a normal relationship with due to its make up. The Syrians had gone the country is starting to get back on its feet eventually hezbollah would have faded as capitalism took root.

I already know the answers coming back the threat of missiles etc etc...they started it..they took the soldiers...

I can't help feeling also that a lot of this was driven by the military's embarrasment at back to back incidents of soldiers being captured.

Between AIPAC's lock on the Democratic Party and the Millenialist Christian fundamentalists' lock on the Republican Party, the Palestinians have no political voice in the U.S. The main stream media just reflects that.

"IWONDER WHETHER ANYBODY IN THE WEST WILL DARE RAISE THEIR VOICES IF A COUPLE OF NUCLEAR BOMBS WERE LOBBED AT IRAN."
______________________________
Highly unlikely. They know that if they raise their voices, they will be nuked next.

A few platitudes to salve the conscience is all that is allowed.

I appreciate authors respect for lebanese life and his article about US people being brainwashed by US media as they can only see and read whats on TV and Newspaper. And I personally always try to explain to my friends in USA about the same issue author has raised but they dont accept it, not to blame them becuase most of them havent been across the atlantic or pacific as they believe muslims are always ready to kill them, Thanks to US media

Mr wolcott's post on July 21, 2006 09:33 AM, has same ideology as Alqaeda's they justify killing innocent americans as they pay taxes to US government some of which ends up as terrorising weapons for israeli military, dropping those huge bombs in palestinians populated areas, terrorising kids and civilians,

Let's use our brains here shall we?
Why so many civilian deaths among the Lebanese? Could it be that, oh I dunno, the Hizbollah scumbag cowards are placing rocket launchers and ammo dumps among the civilian population just so idiots among the West see lots of civilian casualties and react negatively towards Israel? Nah, these wonderful human beings would never do that would they?
Face it, if you believe the Isrealis are targeting civilians, you've been had. If you believe that Isreal doesn't have to the right to destroy Hizballah TO THE LAST MAN, then you're an idiot.

What differentiates the Israeli invasion of Lebanon from other events in the Middle East is although the U.S. media began with its usual pro-Israeli bias, somewhere in week two of the invasion, the U.S. media began to at least portray a more "balanced" coverage.

Hizb' Allah is still a group of dirty rotten terrorists, but gee gosh willikers, maybe Israel has gone a bit too far. Oh well, George and Condi must know what they are doing. And, hey, the world eternally owes the Jews for the Holocaust. Why don't those Arabs just accept they must sacrifice to pay Europe's debt?

Still, why the glacial shift toward at least a semblance of balance? My guess is Americans of Arab descent and left wing bloggers have been pummeling the mainstream media with justified claims of bias to such an extent the media has finally succumbed to at least the appearance of balance.

It is unfamiliar territory, though. Thus ABC news bungled the attempt at "balance" by a segment ridiculing the Arab media for its bias against Israel, but the reporter was unwittingly throwing stones in his glass house. Its hard for the abuser to blame the abused for overcompensation.

Some of you, B20 I think in particular, seem to have a particular beef with Christianity, and feel like making a statement about how "violent" it is in comparison with Islam today. As an atheist, I really have no allegiance to one religion or another, but I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see that today's most violent and volatile religion is indeed Islam. Now to quiet down the usual kneejerk response to that "Christians do bad things too," I am not denying that. But why do some of you seem to think that means we should therefore ignore a multi-million dollar financed international Muslim terror ring? A Christian doing something bad is not the same as the near-daily horrors we hear coming out of Muslim societies. Is it any coincidence that from North Africa to Iran, from the Muslim ghettos of Paris to Afghanistan, and from Lebanon to Indonesia, conflict and terror is a way of life? And the common denominator? That would be Islam. Face it: There is a huge problem with Islam today. To admit that does not make one racist or bigotted. It makes one intelligent and aware. So many of you like to shut people up who make these connections by slapping them with emotional slogans of "You're racist!" or "You're ignorant!" These are the usual PC responses that stifle free and intelligent thought. Somehow, we have become afraid to call a spade a spade. For those who just won't buy that from an evil, white, Westerner like myself, I suggest reading up on Irshad Manji, a Persian lesbian Muslim who has put 2 and 2 together, and understands that Islam needs some major overhauling in order to coexist with the modern world. I would also read about Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Somali-Dutch activist who was very close with murdered Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh. For all of your empty and sanctimonious complaints about Christianity, at least mocking Jesus won't get you killed. Unfortunately for Van Gogh, the same wasn't true for Islam.

I agree that since the media consolidated so much under so few corporate owners, good in-depth reporting is practically non-existent. No, we aren't getting the whole story but that doesn't mean anyone in the Muslim world or Europe is getting it, either.

The death toll numbers are coming from interested parties so who's to say if any are accurate. It's in Lebanon's interest to scream bloody murder at all the poor innocent civilians killed. What we don't know is how many of them are actually part of Hezbollah. Yes, it's always sad to see children die but Hezbollah has no compunctions against killing innocent Israeli Muslims and Jews, women and children. The Israelis at least try not to harm civilians. Prior to bombs dropping in Beirut, they dropped leaflets that said it'd be a good idea to leave the area because we're about to bomb it. They're doing the same thing along the frontier before launching an attack.

The truth of the matter is, Lebanon was told by the United Nations in resolution 1559 to disarm Hezbollah. They chose not to do it. If they needed international help, they could have asked for it. The problem is, some of the Lebanese leadership is allied with Syria which is also allied with Hezbollah. Syria and Iran have been supplying Hezbollah with money and advanced weapons for years and their goal is to commit terror against Israel to destabilize it, affect its economy or anything they can do against it.

You need to ask yourselves, what would any country do in Israel's place? Hezbollah is a terrorist organization with thousands of rockets and missiles aimed at Israel. They've been attacking Israel off and on, here and there, for years. During this last incursion, they killed 8 Israeli soldiers and kidnapped 2. That cannot be tolerated. Israel has the right to defend itself and to protect its citizens from a terrorist threat. The only way to do that is disarm Hezbollah which is what the UN demanded some time ago.

Like Saddam's Iraq, Hezbollah dug tunnels and bunkers under civilian areas and hid their stockpiles of weapons. They are the ones who put the civilians at risk. They are the ones responsible for what is happening now.

If you don't want civilians killed, don't put them in harm's way. If you don't want war, put pressure on political leaders to do what they must do, what the UN demands. Tolerating terrorists in your midst is dangerous and intolerable.

US media has a litmus test: Is it Good for the Jews?

and here is what you won't find on CNN.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14103.htm

It is easy to talk the talk when you don't have to walk the walk.

The 'supposed' tainted media message reads clear in this western whereabout...Israel simply got tired of being the target of the sick and evil, and is finally now letting the whole of the complacent world know it.
Mess with the bull you get the horns is the only reasoning that Islamo-facists understand.

Go Issies...Go Freedom

The incessant wind breaking of a failed species for whom nothing feels better than hate.

Israel offically started the war today by sending troops into Lebanon. We (USA) are suddenly given $$$$ to Israel for new weapons. So we are at war too - with all of the Middle East Arab nations including Iraq. Bush is one sick puppy and we in the US will be paying the price.

Ron wrote:

"The Israelis at least try not to harm civilians. Prior to bombs dropping in Beirut, they dropped leaflets that said it'd be a good idea to leave the area because we're about to bomb it. They're doing the same thing along the frontier before launching an attack."

You fail to mention that they have also destroyed the infrastructure that allows civilians to escape - also targeting moving vehicles on roads that are passable - if you think that the iaf can distinguish between military and civilian traffic I believe the blew up a crane in the christian area a few days ago.

More interstingly Dr Sanjay Gupta from CNN reporting from Beirut this morning said something along the lines of....in most war zones the Red Crescent or Red Cross means you do not get attacked and in this conflict the israelies have bombed hospitals and Ambulances making life much more difficult for Dr's their.

As usual of course its easy for people like you to blame others for the civilains killed by Israels bombs...

Reynold-

How profound you are. Or is it profane?

Angust -

The Israelis told the civilians which roads to use and which to avoid during their escape. Once again I'll remind you that Hezbollah should take most of the blame for putting their weapons and hideouts in civilian apartments and infrastructure. Then, when there are casualties, Israel can take the fall for it. The terrorists are wise and willing to take risks with people they view as expendable if it furthers their cause.

Ron:

"Like Saddam's Iraq, Hezbollah dug tunnels and bunkers under civilian areas and hid their stockpiles of weapons. They are the ones who put the civilians at risk. They are the ones responsible for what is happening now.
"

So explain to us why the Pentagon, the military headquarters of the United States, are located in the middle of residential areas in the DC area? check it out on google earth.

Israel, the terrorist state that you defend, moves its civilians in the middle of military zones it occupies.

The terrorist state of Israel has implanted 400,000 civilians inside the occupied territories and surrounded them by military bases.

The Lebanese are simply defending themselves from this arrogant messianic state that has been killing refugees, stealing their lands and violating their basic rights since the 1930s.

BOYCOTT ISRAEL, THE APARTHEID STATE OF THE MIDDLE EAST.

I just heard that the Lebanese army will engage Israel if it makes a major ground move into it's territory. I just cannot imagine how gigantic a blunder this will be on the part of Israel and the United States if this is allowed to occur.

For almost all normal people, whether they be Muslim, Arab, Persian, Christian, or otherwise, the actions of Hezbollah or Hamas draw little sympathy and they are not viewed as martyrs.

Imagine, if you will, how it might look to the rest of the Arab and Musilim world ( and to the rest of the world aside from the Israeli settler movement and Fox News)
If the relativeley tiny and barely armed Lebanese army is decimated by Israel while defending it's country to the last man, just as any other country would do in similar circumstances, including the US.

These men will be seen as true martyrs and hero's, and not just to religious whackos who can justify anything for their cause (like the Israeli settler movement for instance) but to large populations of normal people the entire world over.

No amount of bombing innocent people in Lebanon or the Gaza will illicit the outrage that will follow a last stand by the Lebanese army against invaders who have destroyed their country before and are in the midst of doing it again.

This may be a truly disasterous move for Israel and the US and one that really begins to isolate us, not just in the opinion of ordinary people but by real economic and diplomatic action.

Is this administration really that blind and stupid or are they just bent on ensuring that we start WWWIII come hell or high water?

If these people remain in office, these people who value Israel's right to expand beyond it's internationally recognized borders more than they do the lives and future's of the citizen's of the United States of America, these people who can justify any attrocity against civilians in the name of their cause (certainly not my cause) then you had better begin to explain to your children what war is like because they are going to be fighting many of them at once in the years that follow.
You might also teach them to keep their thoughts and feelings to themselves in that any government that is capable of such hubris and stupidity will soon begin to trample upon any citizen that voices opposition.

Will I be called a coward because I don't want to give up the lives of my children in defense of Israel's war crimes? Will I be called traitor, and formally charged as such if I protest our involvment in this madness?

Today I really have begun to come to the conclusion that greatest threat to American security and moral integrity (and for that matter Israel's security and Moral integrity) that we face today is AIPAC and it's supporters, which appears to be almost all of Congress and the Senate. How do we make an impact on people who are so cowed that they dare not speak out even in the face of almost unprecedented brutality.

For any Democrats reading this, I unfortunatly understand the neo con ideology that has effectivley superceded almost all republican values, but how do Democratic Politicians excuse their complicity with this madness and continue to slavishly back any action no matter how brutal or ridiculus that Israel engages in?

Is there even a dialog about it or is it just never spoken of?

Whatever the case, whom ever fights to shut AIPAC down and bring reason and stability back to the US and Israel has got my vote.

J

"The Israelis told the civilians which roads to use and which to avoid during their escape. Once again I'll remind you that Hezbollah should take most of the blame for putting their weapons and hideouts in civilian apartments and infrastructure."

This is simply a big lie to justify the collective punishment that Israel always inflicted on civilians.

How does Israel know where the weapons are hidden if indeed Hizbollah is hiding them there?

So far I have not seen any proof of this except from Israeli propaganda machine.

What I know is that the airport that was bombed 3 times was not used for anything.

After Israel blocked Lebanon from air, sea and land, it bombed the airport.

Tell me which airplane would venture in using the airport when Israel warplanes and warships were controlled all of Lebanon's borders?

Israel is revengeful state, this is hardly news.

Go to any Israeli website or newspaper, and you will find widespread calls for revenge.

We see the most horrid assertions about anything Arab above...but say something about the world despised Israelis and you get those screaming screams of "anti-semitic", ad naseum. As though most of the world and a good part and growing of this country ISN'T. I often wonder at that.

J,

AIPAC is the one runs the show in congress when it comes to the Middle East.

When Arabs claim that the "American-Jews" control US foreign policy, it should not be dismissed as "conspiracy theory".

No one can not dispute that a certain radical American-Jewish view of Middle East is the one that steers US foreign policy in that region. AIPAC doesn't even hide this.

One has to understand that the foreign policy that Arabs see is the one applied to them. What Arabs don't see is that not all Jews agree with the radical view of AIPAC and its supporters.

The second element in this is the media.

Average Americans see the conflict through what the media shows. Even the most liberal media outlets (like CNN) is nothing but impartial in this. CNN and most newspapers favor the Israeli side.

Average American policy makers see the conflict through AIPAC.

All of this combined, don't be surprised that the overall US government policy is basically in-line with the Israeli one.

Believe it or not, there is more hope in the right-wing camp than in the left wing one in this. The left has been indoctrinated with pro-Israeli propaganda, and that includes the left-wing media. You need another generation of left-wingers maybe.

Regan was the only one who actually and bluntly told the Israeli government "enough is enough".

The democrats would be scared to do that.

In some way, they fear Israel.

The republicans don't. They are allied with it today for other reasons not because they fear it. That can be changed.

I am starting to believe HOLOCAUST never happened.

America is duped by jews. They control and manipulate the minds of americans.

When you are afraid to tell the truth about Israeli aggression , then you will do anything.

There is no scale. Truth is truth even if your own hand bites.

Media (jews) is afraid that if americans knew about what is going on they will turn against jews.

Sooner or later all americans become internet educated.

Then what will happen?.

Jews will shutdown internet in america.

I am 100% sure that will happen.

Jews are keeping american hostage just like they are doing to palestenians.

with respect to plaestenians case , they are kept in ahouse arrest, bombed , no food, constantly harrassed as terrorists.

In america jews keeping americans dark when necessary. They control every media outlet and they blame anyone reports the truth as workingw ith terrorist.

If this is not an example of Hostage ...what it is?.

Thank god for internet.

I am not saying jews are evil but there are things happening with media freedom is bothersome. People are afraid to tell the truth.

America is worst than dictator state. But bush is not a dictator. he is a pawn. The real culpirit are jews. Especially rightw ing jews.

I don't believe holocaust happened at all. May be hitler probably killed few 1000s before all espcaped.

Another Jews master plan.

Jews and muslims are same. They are cousins correct?. They deserve each other. Let them kill each other. Goodriddens to both religion.

Today in NYTimes Travel section interesting advertisement. It stated that tourist reservations to Haifa and Tel Aviv right now were not entirely recommended. "But tourists certainly should visit beautiful Eilat and Jerusalem." Obviously I am grateful to Israel for their continuing "WELCOME" to tourists. Too bad they didn't do much for 10xthousands having to flee Lebanon. Actually, I would have preferred Haifa myself. Would have been more interesting to be closer to the bombing, killing, hurting, destroying, etc. of an entire innocent Lebanon. Would have given me a better sense of what Israel is all about. Perhaps next year.

With Britain finally joining the human race, US is the only country supporting Israel's 11 day long assault on civilians.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1826904,00.html

"Howell said: 'The destruction of the infrastructure, the death of so many children and so many people. These have not been surgical strikes. If they are chasing Hizbollah, then go for Hizbollah. You don't go for the entire Lebanese nation.'

He added: 'I very much hope that the Americans understand what's happening to Lebanon.' "

Have been reading most of this stuff and gets boring - too much getting around in circles what Israel is doing with Hesbolla and Vice-versa. The issue is Israel against Middle Eastern Arabs (for starters). Hesbolla is just a name. It is really the furious Arabs from Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, and surely Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia. They have had it with this Western/Zion Colony. They just want there land back. Can you really blame the? Be realistic - Israel is on-the-out.

Karim -

"The terrorist state of Israel has implanted 400,000 civilians inside the occupied territories and surrounded them by military bases."

Why don't you grow up and come into this century? Israel has been a legitimate country for about 60 years, and the rest of the world acknowledges that thought. If the Palestinians would accept that fact, they could live side-by-side in their own country and prosper as much as the Israelis have.

IS THERE ANY CHANCE ALEX COULD BE BANNED FROM THIS SITE??? His rantings sound like he's a madman, and it adds nothing intelligent to this site! Please, Alex, go find something better to do with all your free time!

BOYCOTT THE ARAB STATES THAT PERSECUTE THEIR OWN PEOPLE, TREAT WOMEN LIKE SECOND CLASS CITIZENS AND DON'T ALLOW THEIR PEOPLE TO HAVE FREE SPEECH!

Karim -

You are so misinformed, and you are using this forum to spread your anti-Israel propoganda. Of course, you're certainly in the majority on this site, so I guess you'll continue. But, please get your facts straight.

Why i am madman. Another persecution of truth in america? Calling people who tells thr truth as terrorist. Seems like evil jews behaviour to me.

There are better methods to handle arab problem than killing civilians mercilessly inorder to take the land and try to make Greater Israel.

What is intelligent ? you want me to be jingoistic for murderers Israel? You should be ashamed for not telling the truth.

You can't persecute the truth. Israels evil design is out. Most of the suicide bombers are Mozzad helped to keep blaming palestenians and until kill them without food. As a reactive society , muslims react to this. Israel keeps palestenians in tight leesh.

Once all plaestininas murdered by Israelw ith "Fak" reason then will try to take Egypt , syria and lebanon.

Watch it. It will happen.

I can see through evil design.

Even 9/11 is a plan of mozzad to keep america angry at arabs. Osama is just a pawn.

I was angry at arabs first after 9/11. Then after some time i start to see something tricky about WTC 7 building collapse. It is a controlled demolition. There was not much fire to melt steel.

What it clearly showed me is this. All WTC buildings were pre planted explosives. There are people who knew this attack. They triggered it just after the crash. Do you know all the owners are jewish?.

Read more about it in google. It is all over. Mainstream media afraid of it because it will look like antijew.

1st, Alex,

It could be that the Martians are behind everything going on as well, but since I have absolutely no proof of that, I won't say it, and I suggest that you adopt the same attitude towards Israel. There are are far too many important things going on now that Israel (specifically the settler movement in Israel and the US) needs to be criticized for and your utterly unsubstantiated ramblings do not help matters at all, but rather cloud the issue with anti semitic overtones piled upon ridiculus conspiracy theory.

2nd, anonymous (please at least have the common courtesy to get a moniker even if you find your views so shameful that you can't bear to attribute them to even a fake name!)

Karim, based on my readings here is neither misinformed nor spreading propaganda. You might not agree with him, but he is neither of those things.

Regarding Israel and the settlements, while most countries in the world regard Israel as a legitimate state, as they ought to, they also utterly condemn the settlements and consider the state of Israel's borders to be the Green line and therefore consider all settlements outside of that to be illegitmate and illegal.
Please see the huge numbers of UN resolutions that say either explicictly say or imply as much and then please note that they are either agreed to or abstained from virually the entire world, (includingalmost the entire EU, China, Russia, The rest of the American and south American continent and of course the whole middle east. The mighty coalition that often opposes these are (comically) the US, Israel, Micronesia, and the Marshall Islands. So I suppose it is you that should first treat Karim with the respect that he deserves based on his respectful contributions here and also wake up to the fact that the entire world condemns the settlements and views them as a crime against the Palestinian people that they have a very legitimate right to oppose. In fact, the US staged a very nasty revolution against England simply for taxing them in a way they did not approve of, so there is, needless to say, a clear precedent for mounting an insurgency agaisnt one's oppressors.

I really don't think any rational person here (including Karim) is saying that Israel is not a legitimate nation. so please don't try to drag the conversation here away from the real issues. Please at least attempt to justify your views with actual facts (in fact, please give me any rational justification for allowing the settlements to persist if you can) instead of just reflexively pulling the worn, faded, oft viewed but almost never proven, race card (or the "any criticism of israel is tacit racism" card). It really is not an acceptable arguement for anything.

Or, If you really have to, why not pull it on Alex, whom I referenced above. He really is a loony racist and is deserving of such treatment. Otherwise, in the future, either come here willing to respectfully debate or abastain from commenting at all.

J

Sample voices of disgust from Times of London:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/article1190596.ece

WHO is in Charge in Washington - Part 1

Bush Urged To Give Israel More Time for Attacks
By Ori Nir
July 21, 2006

WASHINGTON -- Bucking calls in the international community for a cease-fire in the Middle East, Jewish organizations launched a major lobbying offensive in the nation's capital this week to give Israel more time to deal a decisive blow to Islamist militants in Lebanon and Gaza.

With the civilian death toll in Lebanon surpassing 200 early in the week, international calls were increasing for a cease-fire and the deployment of an international force to Lebanon, and the United States signaled that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice would arrive in the region Sunday. Israeli military officials, however, were saying that they would need up to two more weeks to decimate Hezbollah's operational capabilities.

In an effort to head off calls in Washington for a quick cease-fire, some officials with Jewish groups have spent the past few days urging policymakers to make sure that Israel is given ample time and freedom of action to inflict as much damage as possible on Hezbollah's infrastructure in southern Lebanon.

About 50 leaders of the Jewish community from across the country were scheduled to meet Thursday with Bush administration officials and congressional leaders. Pro-Israel advocates said that they would be asking the administration to slap more sanctions on Syria and to push the European Union to follow America's lead by labeling Hezbollah a terrorist organization.

Part 2

In a particularly unusual move, one top Jewish communal leader, Anti-Defamation League National Director Abraham Foxman, visited the Saudi ambassador in Washington, Prince Turki al-Faisal, to thank him for his country's condemnation of Hezbollah for igniting the crisis by launching a cross-border raid against Israel and abducting two of its soldiers.

"We told the ambassador that this could be a new moment in the relationship, that the neighborhood is changing because the threats that face the Jewish people are also facing moderate Arab states," Foxman said. According to the ADL, the Saudi ambassador urged all parties to "return to the basics" of Middle East peacemaking by embracing the Saudi peace plan of March 2002, which calls for an Israeli withdrawal to the pre-1967 lines in return for peaceful, normal relations between Israel and the Arab world. The Saudi diplomat, Foxman said, agreed that "this could be a moment to bring moderates on all sides closer together."

Many Jewish organizations, including the ADL, were also praising President Bush for repeatedly defending Israel's right to defend itself. But their most important goal appeared to be to keep America from shutting down Israel's military operations prematurely.

"The timing is very important, because we don't know how long the fighting will continue. We don't know if these are the days leading up to the proverbial Six Day War or whether this is the fifth day of a six-day war," said William Daroff, vice president of public policy at United Jewish Communities, which is co-sponsoring the impromptu lobbying day. "It is important, as the fighting continues," he said, "that the United States government continues its steadfast support for Israel's right to defend itself."

The lobbying campaign is one of numerous actions taken by American Jewish organizations to show solidarity with Israel and to help Israelis cope with the ongoing rocket attacks.

Part 3

This week, several Jewish groups -- including UJC, the American Jewish Committee and the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations -- organized emergency missions to Israel to meet with Israeli leaders and to tour Israeli communities that have come under rocket fire.

Other groups are helping Israelis temporarily relocate from the north of the country to the center, helping with the mobilization and funding of psychological support for Israeli trauma victims.

Jewish communities in several major American cities -- including New York, Washington, Miami, St. Louis, Detroit, Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago and Philadelphia -- have organized rallies in support of Israel. Jewish activists are also scheduling meetings with diplomats stationed in foreign embassies in Washington and consulates across America to encourage foreign governments to support Israel's campaigns against Hamas and Hezbollah.

Two organizations, the Orthodox Union and the Rabbinical Council of America, called for a nationwide night of prayer and Torah study July 19.

"This is a unique moment of broad consensus in the community in support of Israel's right to defend itself and to take the measures necessary to stop the reign of terror," said Malcolm Hoenlein, executive vice chairman of the Presidents Conference. The conference is a 52-member umbrella group widely seen as the Jewish community's collective voice on Middle East affairs. "There is deep concern because people have come to realize that this has nothing to do with occupation of territory. This is really about Israel's right to exist. There are no issues here that justify what's happening either from Gaza or from Lebanon. People also see it as a part of the war on terrorism."

While the Bush administration strongly expressed support for the notion that Israel was waging a legitimate fight against terrorism, it urged caution and insisted that no steps be taken that could threaten the stability of Lebanon's democratically elected government. Bush and Rice used their influence to block or tone down international criticism of Israel. Jewish communal leaders expressed particular appreciation for the administration's early public support of Israel's position that it was pointless to push for a cease-fire before Hezbollah was significantly weakened.

Thanks to the pressure from Bush, the statement of the G8 industrial nations was "remarkably positive, more than most of us would have imagined," said the AJCommittee's executive director, David Harris. He was speaking from Israel, where he is leading an AJCommittee delegation of 40 lay leaders and staffers from America and Europe. Jack Rosen, chairman of the American Jewish Congress, also expressed relief that the G8 statement avoided any harsh criticisms of Israel. "I would have expected a much harsher reaction from around the world," Rosen said. "I think that what has finally settled in everyone's mind is that this is a war that has to be fought by all countries that suffer from extremism. It's a united world against extremism."

Part 4

Jewish groups said that they were quite happy with the response of several Arab countries, namely Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan. Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and Jordan's King Abdullah last week endorsed an official Saudi statement blaming Hezbollah -- which strongly benefits from Iranian financial and military support -- for the deterioration across the Israeli-Lebanese border. Iran's growing influence in the region "causes serious concern among 'status quo' regimes such as the Saudi, the Egyptian and the Jordanian," said Gary Sick, who is a professor of international affairs at Columbia University and a former National Security Council expert on Iran and the Gulf.

While officials with Jewish groups applauded and celebrated the administration's suspension of efforts to bring about a cease-fire, experts warn that America's continued standing on the sidelines may erode its ability to play a role in renewed peace efforts in the region. The Bush administration has lost influence in the region because of its diplomatic standoffishness, said Richard Murphy, a former secretary of state for Near Eastern affairs in the Reagan administration. Murphy was also a former U.S. ambassador to Syria and Saudi Arabia. The current crisis may open new opportunities for a peace process, he said, but the administration seems uninterested in exploring them together with its international partners. "Without our trying to mold things, things will not go anywhere," he said.

J Wrote:
I just heard that the Lebanese army will engage Israel if it makes a major ground move into it's territory - End Quote.

They must of been on holiday when Hezbollah took over their country.

Alex:

"Jews and muslims are same. They are cousins correct?. They deserve each other. Let them kill each other. Goodriddens to both religion."

If you believe in the biblical version of history, then it is Jews and Arabs (Muslims and Christians) that are supposedly cousins, not Muslims.

For instance, Muslims in Indonesia have no ancestry in the Middle East whatsoever.

The holocaust was not a lie.

Nazis did kill millions of Jews. There is no doubt about this.

We can be very critical of Israeli policies, but we should not become anti-Semitic.

The victims of the Nazis have nothing to do with the violent and criminal policies of the Israeli state.

Let us focus on the root of the problem: the state of Israel.

So the big bad snotty arrogant Israli general says the mighty Israeli army has massed on the border,is gonna go in and clean out them Hizbollahs, oh boy. And THEN they decide it's too danerous to go in on the ground. (they only plunder innocent civilians, people who can't fight back...Palestinians citizens, like with bulldozers for the refugees in Jenin, and stone throwers, etc.) And tonight they say well, GUESS WHAT, we'll accept a political Hizbollah. (read Robin Wright piece WaPO) OH NO...please go in on the ground to south Lebanon and be ground into dirt by the party of God.What a service to the Palestinians, the Lebanese, the US and the whole world that would be. And lets hear more about how they've destroyed
50% of the Hizbollah arms.....

From Myron Dasson...

"J Wrote:
I just heard that the Lebanese army will engage Israel if it makes a major ground move into it's territory - End Quote.

They must of been on holiday when Hezbollah took over their country.

Posted by: Myron Dadsson | July 22, 2006 08:13 PM "

Actually they were formed when lebanon was under occupation by the israeli occupation force during one of its many bouts of "freedom spreading" ..

On BBC news they showed an Armenian man (Sarkis something) who had a bottle factory in Bekaa valley and now it's all rubbles. He used to employ 400 people.

This is what Israel calls "fighting Hezbollah". Face it, they have become a nation of monsters.

PS...and GUESS WHAT!!! IT's nearly August. In three months we can elect a Democratic Senate and House and immediately impeach the despicable Bush, remove that fool, unqualified secretary of state, Rice, and their neocon bosses. And perhaps America will survive with some moral dignity in the world after all.

someone with no name wrote this:

"The Israelis told the civilians which roads to use and which to avoid during their escape. Once again I'll remind you that Hezbollah should take most of the blame for putting their weapons and hideouts in civilian apartments and infrastructure.

Then, when there are casualties, Israel can take the fall for it. The terrorists are wise and willing to take risks with people they view as expendable if it furthers their cause."

Well to your first point - what a crock! Isreaelis gave them directions - so did each civilian receive his own individual map to safety...a couple more things iaf blew up all the gas stations and also have refused to tell the Lebanese government where they left 100,000 plus mines that they left in the area during there last sojourn in the Levant.

Then to your second point regarding the terrorists regarding the civilians as expendable - I guess that statement extends to the israelis too as they sure had no problems in expending them...

Can someone with the know how please start an anti AIPAC petition online ....lets take our Congress and Senate back...

if that seems racist I have no issues banning ALL lobbyists ...

Alex not all that off base:

The Operation Zarzir order was sent to the headquarters of the Fourth Battalion of the Palmach (the Haganah's elite strike force), which included special units. Among these units was the Arab department (Jewish soldiers disguised as Arabs, today called mistaravim), which was then called Shahar (Dawn)....

There was also a piece of advice from headquarters, to the effect that "the operation should look like an Arab action" - in other words, as though it was an Arab who had murdered an Arab.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=722949

So Alan Dershowitz says civilians who support terrorists "are not entirely innocent."
Right, so I guess the 85% of Israelis who support Israel's terrorist bombing of Lebanon are not entirely innocent, and can therefore be annihilated.
Thanks, Alan, for clearing that up for us.

Angus,

I agree whole heartedly. If there is not an anti AIPAC petition then it's high time.

Question: who here would support an Anti AIPAC petition? feel free to respond.

J

J - I didn't realize you were the moderator of this forum.

Just reading some of the latest comments. . .

Why can't the setttlements exist? They are developed on land that Israel captured during the 1967 while it was defending itself from attacks on all sides by its neighbors. Do you really think a country that has been beseiged since its beginning should have to give land to people who don't accept its right to exist at all? That is the entire issue here. The Arab states DO NOT want a Jewish state in the Middle East. Plain and simple.

When the Jews were walled into Warsaw in ghettos it was a crime against humanity. When Palestinians are walled into ghettos, it's a security solution. When the SS troop's retaliation for german deaths was 10 to one, it was an atrocity. When Lebanese are annihilated at hundreds to one, it's self defense. The Jewish people seemed to have learned huge lessons from Nazi Germany. Unfortunately, they were the wrong ones.

Question for J

No. The settlements do not have a right to exist. They should have never existed in the first place as the land is stolen. (do you think the same logic you're using applies to the territory that may be occupied in Lebanon? try explaining it to the rest of the world) The geneva convention prohibits settling land captured during war. Ethnic cleansing is something that we have bombed other countries for and settlers move Palestinians off of newly aquired land and push them into ghettos. Originally the settlers intention was to take the entire west bank and gaza and move the Palestinians to jordan or some other country. i.e. ethnic cleansing.

Furthermore, and maybe most importantly, after 40 years of tacit and direct financial support from the most powerful nation on earth, after hundreds of millions spent, after all the Israeli, Patlestinian and American lives lost (due to 9/11, the beirut bombing, both which can be viewed as terroist reactions to the settler movement) , all the damage and all the terror they have inspired, the settlements are a total failure which are still condemned by virtually the entire world (please see all of the almost completely unanimous UN resolutions which include the backing of the majority of the entire planet) and which Israel even now admits must go at least in large part and according to many Israelis entirely.

So, in accordance with long standing US policy on the matter, the opinion of a great many Israelis , at least the partial agreement from the current Israeli government (Gaza is gone and the West bank is and East Jerusalem are next)the opinion of just about every single country represented in the UN and therefore the majority of the population of the entire planet, I would say that, no, the settlements do not have a right to exist any more. There has been enough damage, terror, humiliation and loss created by them and their adherents to last for many lifetimes. They must and will go. It's just a matter of when.

Is that a sufficient answer for you?

J

P.S.

To anonymous, no I am not the moderator. asking general questions is not restricted to Jefferson alone. Give it a try yourself if you have anything of substance to ask about.

J

America is duped. World is duped. Jews are trying to make Greater Israel.

Don't even be shocked if Israel keep this war as never ending.

Mozzad will keep tryingto create war by supplying weapons to muslims.

America will be happy with war to sell its weapon. The more war the better for republicans.

Arabs are just stupid people. They don't even condemn israel for killing civilians.

Israel is trying to get all jewish from USA to move to Israel. They want to fill empty land captured from arabs. The need more people in israel so they can sacrifice few and keep blaming arabs and keep capturing arab countries.

What Israel wanted was to make syria react so they can capture syria. But it did n't happen.

Don't pity Israel. Israel can defend itself. All this blame on terrorist..blah blah or just a master plan.

As long as they control american media they control the world.

I don't hate jews. I think they are the one playing very important role in keeping church and state separate in america.

What bothers me is making a state based on religion and race. That is a danger to rest of the humanity. Israel is not made to be democratic state. It is not.

Also manipulating american media to further Israel agenda is not a good sign for future.

Just because israel does mass killing does n't make it right. All the excuses are just a master plan. Never believe in what people say in the media.

"Why can't the setttlements exist? They are developed on land that Israel captured during the 1967 while it was defending itself from attacks on all sides by its neighbors. Do you really think a country that has been beseiged since its beginning should have to give land to people who don't accept its right to exist at all?"

Would you accept the idea that a group people shows up and claims that they wanted to re-create a nation that existed 2000 years ago in the same spot?

Arabs were not crazy for trying to stand up to this crazy fantasy. They just lost and injustice won.

It is amazing just how people want to simplify the issue of the conflict in lebanon.
There is an enormous amount of people that try and compare isreal´s doing to what has been done to the Jewish people in the holocaust mostly because they are very ignorant or stupid and probably both. I suggest for these people to leave this issue aside mostly because most of them (especially in Europe) still bare the shame.

In respect to the killing in the middle east. Both sides are being hurt- this is the nature of war but only the israeli side is being threaten for it´s existance on a ongoing base.
The people of lebanon can not play a double game. They have to decide whether they are responsible for the borders of their nation and if Hisballoh is a legitmate party and if so bare the circumstances or they can deny hisbollah and disarm them.

The problem is there is not enough land and water to go around. Too many people. You don't diminish the population by killing people, you do it by education and birth control.
One Israeli said it honestly when he was being removed from the West Bank. He said that people always fought over land, he wanted the land and he would fight for it.

Props to all for your valid and meaningless opinions.
This one fact will remain until the good Lord returns and gives mankind a well needed tuneup. Even if Israel were to offer the world a cure for all which ails us, there would still be the likes of the Alex Karim's to hate on the Jews.

As for this latest conflict:
Who really knows the full scope of this dealio??? For all we know, this could be stage one of a new coalition quest to free up this earth of the overly sick and evil which has been feasting on us for how long now???
Israel gets Syria/Iran and Fiends to stick their necks out far enough for the Coalition Of Freedom (the lesser of two evils) to swoop down and cut their filthy freedom hating heads off.

Works for me. (:

Seriously: Wake up and smell the evil:
It be simply suicidal for any freedom loving person to side with that which would remove you and yours from this life if they had half the chance.

Go Freedom

Read the post above starting
:PROPS:...it will explain so much so well about how the world regards the savage ISraelis.

So just saw netanYahoo on Fox Likud News this morning - asking America to give Israel more time to finish of hezbollah and to place enormous pressure on Iran and Syria - he actually used the words "shia" fundamentilism etc... he claims Israel is the front line for America in battling this fundamentalism that wants to take over the world..

Clearly another step in the mission to try and drag the US into a greater conflict in the ME -

As for the "reporting" at fox after N. talked about Resolution 1599 or whatever it is - the interviewer did not even mention the many resolutions that israel continues to ignore - his response was an affirmation along the lines of good point blah blah...

And back to the earlier posts regarding israel giving directions to civilians forced to flee their homes - I see the iaf bombed a minibus with civilians in it this morning.......

Angus,

I agree. FOX news has now officially moved from being annoying and simple minded (The World Wrestling Federation seems slightly more serious and credible) to being virtually puke inspiring. CNN and the others are not far behind.

J

Angus -
Do you really think the IAF is TRYING to hit Lebanese civilians? Is it possible some of these "civilians" are actually Hezbollah terrorists or their supporters? Especially since this cowardly group of terrorists constantly hides behind innocent people in its quest for its cause.

Karim -
The Arabs NEVER owned all of the land where present-day Israel stands. Also, there were ALWAYS Jews in that area, too. The claim that the entire region was owned by the Arabs and that the Jews stole it is not reasonable.

J: I just read some of your previous posts. Why don't you stick to the issues instead of writing sarcastic and snide comments? You're not the only one with an opinion, and you're certainly not the expert in this area. There are many angles to this conflict, and you're only presenting one side. It doesn't mean you're right, so you really should try to control your arrogance a little.

Myron Dadsson,

Have you ever wondered how it could be that if Hezbollah really meant the US and it's citizens any harm that 25,000 US citizens could have been running all around their territory having fun and doing business and not one of them came to any harm at the hands of this supposedly dangerous group? Rather it was the unbeleivably violent reaction of the Israeli's that ran them out of the country.

OR, is it possible that Hezbollah simply has a problem with the Israelis, who have destroyed their country once before and are in the process of doing it again?

I do not think that Hezbollahs fight is with the US (except in Netanyahu's wet dreams) unless we are directly assisting the Israelis in raping their homeland.

That is why, I will say again, that if we cut off funding to Israel, forcing them out of the remaining settlements and the occupation that ensures the settelments safety, We will soon see the end of both Hezbollah and Hamas as a credible threat to Israel. Neither group has ever been a threat to the US unless we work to occupy or help to occupy their homelands.

I will also state once again that Israels real probelm is a social one. They have been on our welfare roll for too long. Therefore, they have persisted in behaviors that are dysfunctional because they do not have to act like other nations in the world and do things that make financial or political sense.

They are drunk with our money and political support and we feel sorry for them because things are going "so badly" for them and we just give them more money and support.

It's time to cut off the welfare and ask Israel to get a real job, that is to say, run their country in way that pays for itself and allows them to lived in peace with their neighbors , or suffer the consequences that their own bad hehavior brings upon them.

J

I am 100% sure Israelis plan to bombard and kill labenese civilians. The plan is make all lebanese leave and take over the land.

These people are evil. But again i am not pitying Islam or muslims. They are equally evil.

But in this case , Israelis are just cut throat killers. If they have the power they will eliminate all races by manipulating them. I would n't doubt it a bit.

For me Israel should n't exist. So is all muslim states.

There should n't be no state based on religion. That will be dangerous to rest of humanity.

Religous states should never allow to grow.

It jsut bothers me America condone killing of innocent civilians with excuse. That sends real bad signal to rest of the world. That is better get nukes to save yourself off this killer tyrant.

"Angus -
Do you really think the IAF is TRYING to hit Lebanese civilians? Is it possible some of these "civilians" are actually Hezbollah terrorists or their supporters? Especially since this cowardly group of terrorists constantly hides behind innocent people in its quest for its cause.

Posted by: Voice of reason | July 23, 2006 01:12 PM"

No VOR - I don't think IAF is purposely trying to hit civilians but I also think they are NOT exercising due diligence in ensuring they are not hitting civilians.....you cannot instruct 300,000 civilians to vacate an area and then bomb a minibus because it MAY be carrying HB fighters...virtually all of the posts on these blogs from the israeli point of view tries to show a moral difference between hb actions and iaf/idf actions but so far
all I and many others are seeing is the SAME behaviour from both sides.

As for your assertion that they may be terrorists posing as civilains as I said before perhaps if hb had a K-7 brigade I suppose they could be....

As many pundits are saying you may win this round but at what cost - if you guys don't see how bad you look in the eyes of the world then you have military myopia.

If Israel's true goal is to remove hb from "attacking" range then start negotiating with the Lebanese Govt. through the UN to find a way out of this madness...your angry old men in the knesset are creating a whole new generation of angry young men in the occupied territories and the levant.

J -

Yup - FOX almost made me lose my breakfast this morning - the interviewer did everything but sit on Netayahoo's lap and jiggle...

I think I need to start looking at who advertises on Fox and not using their products....

Voice of Reason:

"The Arabs NEVER owned all of the land where present-day Israel stands. Also, there were ALWAYS Jews in that area, too. The claim that the entire region was owned by the Arabs and that the Jews stole it is not reasonable."

Let me repeat this to you again:

There was no Israel in the middle east for 2000 years. NONE.

The Zionists were a group of fanatical radical messianic people who tried, and unfortunately succeeded, to re-create somehting that existed 2000 years ago in the same location. The Zionist plan was drafted before the holocaust, so don't blame it all on the holocaust.

You call yourself "voice of reason" but how can any reasonable person defend this irrationality.

You tell any PERSON TODAY that you want to re-establish something that existed 2000 years ago, you would be sent to a MENTAL HOSPITAL.

The area was ruled by Arab/Muslims for 1400 years, so of course as a region it does belong to the Arabs.

Arab-Jews, who were less than 10% in the early 1900s in Palestine, of course owned their own houses and properties.

The rest was literally STOLEN from its natives.

For god's sake, today you can still find people in Israel who live in houses of evicted Palestinians.

Here is a book that describes just that:

"The Lemon Tree, an Arab, a Jew, and the Heart of the Middle East" by Sandy Tolan.

It is about the true story of a Palestinian house that was taken over by a European-Jewish family.

There are so many houses like that in Israel inhabited by European-Jews while their owners are in REFUGEE CAMPS across the border BANNED by the terrorist state of Israel to return!

Voice of reason,

You said above:

"J: I just read some of your previous posts. Why don't you stick to the issues instead of writing sarcastic and snide comments? You're not the only one with an opinion, and you're certainly not the expert in this area. There are many angles to this conflict, and you're only presenting one side. It doesn't mean you're right, so you really should try to control your arrogance a little."

I am a reasonable person. I love my country. I wish for there to be peace between the US and Arabs, Muslims, Jews and Israelis. So if you have a specific rebuttal to something I've said, please state it. I would love to hear any compelling evidence that you might have that indicates that the US is in a better place in this situation than I believe it to be.

With regard to being an expert, I seem to know as much or more about the details of the Israeli Palestinian conflict than any one else I personally know and I am shocked at the lack of knowledge that many people have about an issue that has helped to bring about 9/11 and the war on terror and every thing that has followed.

Again, If you have anything to say that will enlighten this forum or help me personally understand whats happening more clearly then I welcome it. Even if I compeletely disagree, I would like to hear any credible arguement that supports the settlements or the USA's tragically flawed tacit support of them.

But whatever else I am doing, I am not, as you seem to be, trying to shut anyone else up simply because I disagree with what they say. I am actually trying to START a dialog on these issues. It seems you are much more interested in shutting down any dialog you disagree with or cannot refute credibly.

I think that the height of arrogance is saying "while I disagree with you and have no specific rebuttal for what you are saying, I wish you would not talk anymore because I don't like to be challenged and therefore you are arrogant and insulting."

and by the way, who exactly am I being "snide and sarcastic" to?

And finally, the Israelis just bombed a counrty back into the stone ager over a few captured soldiers. And I can't help but remembering that Osama Bin Laden concieved of 9/11 the first time that the Israelis bombed the towers (full of poeple) in lebanon. Who exactly is being arrogant here

J

Hey Karim, you ever here of a book called, THE BIBLE???
Gen. 12:7, 13:15, 15:18, 17:8 trumps your measly 1400 yrs.

Gods promise is forever...Live with it.

Karim -

It must be that you and I have both bought into propaganda. I'm convinced of my position and you appear to be convinced of your position. They are polar opposites, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

You wrote: "The Zionists were a group of fanatical radical messianic people who tried, and unfortunately succeeded, to re-create somehting that existed 2000 years ago in the same location. The Zionist plan was drafted before the holocaust, so don't blame it all on the holocaust."

Of course Israel didn't exist 2000 years ago. But, there were many, many Jews in that region who had BIBLICAL, RELIGIOUS and HISTORICAL claim to that land back then. To quote yourself - - - you wrote that they tried to recreate something that EXISTED 2000 YEARS AGO IN THE SAME LOCATION. So, are you admitting that there was an area that belonged to the Jews 2000 years ago?

I don't believe in criticizing the belief system of any religion, whether it be Judaism, Christianity, Islam or any other of the world's religions. Everyone has the right to believe what he or she wants, and everyone else should respect that. What about you? If you're going to dispute the Torah, then you're disputing the right of Jewish people to have biblical and religious claims to the area we now call Israel. Judaism predated both Christianity and Islam, both of which have acknowedged the role that Judaism played in their religious backgrounds.

The Jews were persecuted in that region for centuries by many other groups of invaders. Many were killed and many had to flee. Many, many Jews were just driven out. The Jews who went to Arab countries were treated as second class citizens for centuries, and of course, we know what happened to the Jews of Europe in the last century. There was always the desire for these people to return to their religious homeland - - - the area that is now present-day Israel.

Have you ever read the Torah? You would see that the Jews have biblical and religious ties to that region. That's why they feel that they have a right to belong there.

There are two sides to every story, Karim, and you have to consider both sides.

Myron Dadsson,

A thorough reading of the New Testament will show you quite clearly that Jesus, despite being begged to do so, was not interested even in the least bit in freeing the Promised Land from Roman occupation. He performed many miracles to indicate that he was interested in saving the souls of all mankind. He came as a fulfillment of the old testament to bring the "promised land to all peoples" which is in fact not a piece of real estate, but rather reestablishment of a real communion with god again based on a direct spiritual connection and no longer one based on sacrifice and intercession.

Furthermore, it states quite clearly that no man will know the day or the hour of Christ's return. So to attempt to do so is in direct violation of the scriptures.

Therefore, attempts to prepare his coming through politics, which he abhorred, are as ridiculous now as they were during the crusades, which, if you will recall, included the killing of Jews as well as Arabs and Muslims. They were misinterpreting the scriptures just as tragically as you are now, but in a different way.

Finally, and maybe of most pertinence to this forum, If some one comes to you with a religious book to which you do not adhere and tells you that the book says your home or country belongs to them and would you please kindly leave, (such as the Native Americans for instance) you might have a problem with their reasoning. Obviously, religious beliefs of any type are not adequate to settle issues of real estate or human rights. Maintaining that stance is what makes this country great and allows for a plurality of views and real prosperity and freedom.

J

Based on how Israel capitulating palestenians and kept them as prisoners, I have to assume
HOLOCAUST never happened.

It is another Jewish propanda to make people pity on them. It is like feel pity on satan.

I don't hate jews but they should n't strangulate american media to make GREATER ISRAEL. Because that will lead to more massacre.

Not a good sign for future.

I believe Israel should n't exist. So is all muslim states because States should n't be formed based on religion.

I really don't care what war Israel is fighting as long as they don't kill civilians indescriminately. Main issue is though american media. It is like a puppet voice for Right wing jews.

The truth is twisted and one sided view. America is becoming jingoistic fools.

J,
I do enjoy reading your reasonings (Westerners being safe in Leb for example) but what does The New Testament have to do with God's promise in Genesis?

Jesus Who - The Jews.

Here is the situation. Lebanon has a vigilante group, called "Hezbollah", located within the borders of Lebanon. Beirut is unable to or is unwilling to control the Hezbollah. Hezbollah kidnaps 2 Israeli soldiers and fires some rockets into Israel. Jerusalem responds by bombing part of Lebanon.

The American press is focusing on the whole context of the conflict.

The European press is focusing on mainly the Israeli bombing of the infrastructure in Lebanon.

Both presses are reporting the truth. The difference is between the American focus and the European focus. The American focus is on the entire context of the conflict. The European focus is mainly on the actions of the Israelis.

Now, let us assign a morality judgment to the conflict. Suppose that a Mexican vigilante group operates on the Mexican side of the US-Mexican border. For the purposes of this discussion, let us call this group "La Raza II". The Mexican government is unable to or is unwilling to control La Raza II. La Raza II periodically fires rockets into California in an attempt to "liberate" California from Washington. La Raza II wants to re-integrate California back into Mexico.

How would we Americans react in such a situation?

We would do exactly what the Israelis have been doing. First, we bomb in and around the areas where La Raza II operates. Next, we would invade Mexico to kill 100% of the Mexicans supporting La Raza II.

In a war of this nature, innocent civilians will be accidentally killed. In both Mexico and Lebanon, innocent civilians will and have died.

Would you blow up the airport at Mexico City - would you bomb hospitals in non "La Raza" areas - would you bomb ambulances - would you tell the Mexican government where the 140,000 mines that you left behind when you occupied the Baja peninsula for almost all of the previous quarter century were located - would you take responsibility for creating the conditions under which La Raza were created -

Would you destroy Mexico's economy for the next 5 - 10 years condemning hundreds of thousand of innocent people to a decade of misery.

And finally - could it be that your anger and rage is caused by a sense of jealousy and fear that your neighbour is getting on its feet and is starting to attract many foreign tourists and investors and is proving that "Latino's" are capable of building a succesful secular society?

Myron Dadsson,

you wrote:

"what does The New Testament have to do with God's promise in Genesis?"

From a christian perspective, it means that we no longer need intercession or sacrifice and that God used his chosen people as a vessel to carry forth a message and blessing to the entire world in the form of Jesus and the sacrifice he made for all of us on the cross. He is the fullfillment of the Law. He is the promised land.

The Promised Land is no longer a place but a one to one spiritual connection to God and the chosen people are no longer just the jews but all people now (of course, including the jews) It is of infinitly greater value than any piece of real estate, and frankly, from a christian perspective, to suggest that everyone else gets a shot at eternal salvation and the Jews get some really nice water front property is both offensive and an utterly wrong reading of the bible.

Now that is the Christian perspective. (no offense to people of other religions here, I'm just talking theology, not preaching)

Now if your Jewish, then it means something quite different. But regardless of what religion you are, religion is never an adequate answer to any dispute you might have with someone who does not share your faith. (unless you do as christ suggested and turn the other cheek when you are attacked which is his commandment to his followers who are faced with adversity) focusing on the real estate
aspect of the scriptures as opposed to all of that love your neighbor and forgiveness stuff seems to be really missing the point.

But, if your analysis is correct, then I have a few questions.

Do all jews need to move to the promised land from all over the world to remain in gods good graces or to bring back Jesus?

Do the jews have to be in political control
or do they just need to live there along with everybody else.

since there have been few and sometimes almost no jews in the area for the last 2000 years, do you think that all the killing and bloodshed that has happened in the name of the settlements will really actually only anger god if it turns out that the end of the world is not scheduled for another 2 or 3 thousand years and this whole period was just a ridiculus, brutal debacle like the crusades?

I really don't mean to make light of anyones beliefs but I will say again that the US is a great country precisely because we do not allow religion to enter into our law or government. The same applies to our relations with other countries including Israel. If those are your personal beliefs, then believe them, but don't hold them up as proof of anything as they mean nothing to those who do not share your faith. To do so is as unAmerican as it gets and also appears to be a total misapprehension of the scriptures.

J

If a Mexican vigilante group called "La Raza II" did to Americans what Hezbollah has done to Israelis and if the Mexican government did what Beirut did to control the vigilante group (i.e., doing absolutely nothing), then we Americans would swiftly and thoroughly blow up the Mexican airport. If La Raza II were as tightly integrated into the Mexican economy as Hezbollah is integrated into the Lebanese economy, then we American would destroy key pieces (of the Mexican economy) that is supporting La Raza II. Pieces include but are not limited to airports, supermarkets, etc.

Here are the steps that we American would take.

1. Bomb in and around the area supporting La Raza II.
2. Round up most of the Mexican vigilantes and kill them all.
3. Keep a few of the vigilantes to obtain information about the whereabouts of the American citizens kidnapped by La Raza II.
4. Find and kill all other Mexicans who supported, directly or indirectly, La Raza II.
5. Run Mexico like a colony for 25 years.

There is no way, in hell, that Americans will allow any Mexican vigilante group to use Mexico as a safe haven from which to launch military attacks (including kidnappings) against American citizens.

By the way, I am not, in no way, condoning Jewish society. Jewish society in Israel is quite racist. Like the racist Koreans, the Israeli government gives racist preference, for citizenship, to anyone who can prove that he has Jewish blood.

What I am saying is that Jerusalem is justified in waging a massive military strike against Lebanon to kill all direct/indirect supports of Hezbollah. I am not sympathetic to either the Lebanese government or the Lebanese people. They did absolutely nothing to shutdown Hezbollah. In fact, Hezbollah has become tightly integrated into the economy and the political system of Lebanon, and high-ranking officers in the Lebanese military are sympathetic to Hezbollah.

Here's the bottom. If any vigilante group attacks Jerusalem, then Jerusalem is entired to massacre the entire group: Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Qaeda, etc.

I would like to see Tokyo start shouldering its responsibility as a Western nation -- to protect and promote democracy and human rights. Any occupation force run by NATO to militarily control Lebanon should have a sizeable Japanese battalion. The Japanese should slaughter any Arab group that attacks Israel.

(Below, I correct the grammatical mistakes in the last 4 paragraphs of my immediately preceding article.)

By the way, I am not, in any way, condoning Jewish society. Jewish society in Israel is quite racist. Like the racist Koreans, the Israeli government gives racist preference, for citizenship, to anyone who can prove that he has Jewish blood.

What I am saying is that Jerusalem is justified in waging a massive military strike against Lebanon to kill all direct/indirect supporters of Hezbollah. I am not sympathetic to either the Lebanese government or the Lebanese people. They did absolutely nothing to shutdown Hezbollah. In fact, Hezbollah has become tightly integrated into both the economy and the political system of Lebanon, and high-ranking officers in the Lebanese military are sympathetic to Hezbollah.

Here is the bottom line. If any vigilante group attacks Jerusalem, then Jerusalem is entired to massacre the entire group: Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Qaeda, etc.

I want Tokyo to start shouldering its responsibility as a Western nation -- to protect and to promote democracy and human rights. Any occupation force run by NATO to militarily control Lebanon should have a sizeable Japanese battalion. The Japanese should slaughter any Arab group that attacks Israel.

Hey folks,
Forget about all this wothless zionsit propaganda in the jewish-zionist controlled US media. See the truth and judge for yourself- take a look at:

http://jewwatch.com/

Note: make good use of your tax dollar and support the good work of Mr. Weltner at:

http://jewwatch.com/

Mr. Myron Dadsson, the Jews have no right to be in Palestine. 3000 years ago, it was called Canaan and Philistine and belonged to the Canaanites and the Philistines. The Jews committed genocide on the Canaanites and Philistines and stole the land from them. And BTW, the Jews are not the descendants of the ancient Jews. AshkeNazi Jews are descendants of the Central Asian groups called the Khazars, and have no right to the land of the Palestinians.

Mr. Myron Dadsson, the Jews have no right to be in Palestine. 3000 years ago, it was called Canaan and Philistine and belonged to the Canaanites and the Philistines. The Jews committed genocide on the Canaanites and Philistines and stole the land from them. And BTW, the Jews are not the descendants of the ancient Jews. AshkeNazi Jews are descendants of the Central Asian groups called the Khazars, and have no right to the land of the Palestinians.

J Wrote "Now if your Jewish, then it means something quite different"

Exactly...Which btw is the context of this discussion.
Talk about leaving the door open a crack. (;
Just so you know - I love that which Christ taught, but sadly doubt there be all to many true followers left upon this Posers Paradise...That's not to suggest that those crazy Muslims got it going either. If I were one of them, I would ask; why does my religion attract so many haters, and why does my belief get manipulated by so many disfunctional misfits???

Atheist: brought up the differences in the the way the medias are covering this cluster-muc.
I would suggest that the European slant is based mostly on their fear of Islamo-Facist reprisals.
Their medias must now weight everything they print against the threat of those intolerant uncivilized freaks manipulating unrest and violence throughout the Muslim Sheeple.
This is what happens when freedom loving folk try to appease evil.
Good luck with that, and God help the West if they ever sellout to these disfuctional stone age misfits, who imho may never evolve enough to ever know peace on earth.

Israel is on the way out. Worldwide negative sentiments not to mention pure unmitigated hatred of ALL ME countries has set the tone for their demize. They have tried for 60 years to live happily-ever-after on land stolen from Palestinians and under Europe and USA guidance started a Zionistic Colony. Communist Russia didn't work, South-Africa gave up 10 years ago, all other Colonies had to quit between 1945 and 1965, etc. Will the World get better by getting rid of Israel? Whatever, except it is REALITY.

SPEAKING OF MEDIA. Anyone who watched MEEET THE PRESS yesterday must wonder why Bush has an ISRAELI AGENT as chief of staff. Bolton sneered and snarked, approved of the RNC's Mehlman assertion that "we are all Israelis" (!!!) talked at length about how Israel should have whatever it wants, and when, etc. And then the always fair Tim Russert asked some questions and wiped up the floor with him.

this was part of Athiests contribution

"I would like to see Tokyo start shouldering its responsibility as a Western nation -- to protect and promote democracy and human rights. Any occupation force run by NATO to militarily control Lebanon should have a sizeable Japanese battalion. The Japanese should slaughter any Arab group that attacks Israel."

Are you American? - Why do you want the Japanese to slaughter any Arab Group that attacks Israel? Why are you attacking Korean society? Are you sure you're not Japanese?

Do they sell Lithium over the counter where you live? If so go get some.

Myron wrote:

"Just so you know - I love that which Christ taught, but sadly doubt there be all to many true followers left upon this Posers Paradise...That's not to suggest that those crazy Muslims got it going either."

Since I am a lapsed Catholic I may have this wrong but didn't Jesus say something along the lines of:

"Whatsover you do to the least of my brothers you do unto me"?

Myron Dadsson,

I obviously have been wasting my time talking to someone capable of saying:

"Their medias must now weight everything they print against the threat of those intolerant uncivilized freaks manipulating unrest and violence throughout the Muslim Sheeple.
This is what happens when freedom loving folk try to appease evil.
Good luck with that, and God help the West if they ever sellout to these disfuctional stone age misfits, who imho may never evolve enough to ever know peace on earth."

I thought you might be talking along religious lines originally. You are obviously talking along intensly vile racist lines. You are broken beyond repair.

One last thing. Yes, jesus did say, "Whatsover you do to the least of my brothers you do unto me".

If you examine the plight of the Palestinian people, you will see that living with their necks under the Israeli boot for the last 40 years has ensured that they are exactly the type of People that Jesus was refering to, ie the least of our brothers.

In the future, please be more up front about your hatred and racism so normal people can ignore you from the start.

J

If nothing else, Moron Dadsson (sp? I think not) has given us a good reason why biased reporting is a bad thing. Continuing the rhetoric with which we have been innundated - America = Good
Islam = Evil
can only make things worse in this world. As soon as the "other side" is viewed as human too, perhaps we can end the racist aggression so often used by the Israeli's with the vocal support of America's Government.
I wonder how quickly the dynamics of the situation would change if instead of entering refugee camps with guns and bombs, the Israeli army came with food and medicine. It might take a few years, but a new generation of Palestinian would grow up looking at the Isreali's as helpers, perhaps even saviors. In the same manner as the generations that grew up with violence have turned to violence as a last resort. This new generation would abandon it.
Not saying there will be an immediate effect, but it cannot hurt at all.

Why people are afraid of jews? I don't care what is happening in middle east. Why people in america afraid of jews?. Is it why hitler hated jews to kill them?. Why so much hate on jews.

Who knows the real reason behind Hitlers hate towards jews.

Also one side note: only 600000 jews were in germany in 1933. So most of them probably left for america. So i think there was no holacaust.

Another bogus media manipulation by jews. It is funny that they controlled the world with idea of holacaust for 70 years.

Thank god for internet. They can't dupe the world anymore.

It seems like Hitler was blaming all WWI on Jews. That is what precipitated to kill them?. What i see is , Hitler was killing anyone non german. He killed all polish , russians and serbs. No one talks about them.

It is all about jews. Why? Jews are always manipulators. That is why Hitler hated them so much.

Ok , i figured out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf

Hitler was thinking Jews conspiracy to take over world leadership. Well Hitler was correct. America is taken over by jews.

What bothers me is this. Jews are excatly like muslims. They don't care about their country. They care about their religion first then the country.

That is what bothered Hitler. They were living in germany and working against germany for their own benefits.

There is a difference between jews and muslims. Muslims kills for their religion in offensive purposes. Jews kills for defensive purposes.

But i believe world has n't seen jews master plan yet. Atleast print media is little better than TV.

A major Israeli newspaper reports today that children are being taken to the border to SEE THE SHELLS to be lobbed on Lebananon civilian and SIGNING THEM! Denials all over...but then someone fund the photos. on Drudge REport. So "we're all Israelis"..according to RNC's Mehlman?

One of these pictures are available at http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2006/07/20/lies_damn_lies_and_war_pictures.html

Printer - Just the fact that a website such as the one you referenced exists is absurd. The joke is that the site says it's not a hate site. Are there similar sites that watch Christians and Muslims around the world? You are insane, and anyone who reads that garbage is racist and has nothing important to add to humanity. Get your head checked!

Thanks for proving an earlier point of mine.

Quacks: "Are there similar sites that watch Christians and Muslims around the world?"

One of them is called Campus Watch, one of the true hate sites on the internet. It encourages students in America to write in and report on which of their professors are not pro-Israeli enough.

Judging from your last post, this will do nothing to sway you, as you are an extremist. But it might help people whose minds are not already made up.

Alex - Have you nothing better to do than spout your ridiculous comments. I doubt if anyone takes you seriously, and your comments are the work of a mind gone wrong. If you have nothing of substance to add, please keep your crazy thoughts to yourself please.

Anagadir - Israel IS NOT on its way out. It will never cease to exist. You couldn't be more wrong. I suggest you evolve into this century and accept reality.

Thom:
I don't think any such sites should exist. I think they are all morally wrong and inappropriate.

Two soldiers kidnapped and Israel has to rain down disproportionate and indiscriminate destruction on civilians who only want to flee with their lives? Lebanese children burned and suffering, civilians murdered and maimed and people adjudicate that this is "defense" or about Israeli security? Have they no empathy, compassion or feelings?? Only for themselves it appears. Cease fire.

Terri:
Israel's reaction has much more to do with Hezbollah's stronghold on their border than it does with the two kidnapped soldiers. What's happened there is beyond horrible, but it's an unfortunate and necessary event for Israel's future security. Hezbollah is just a puppet organization of Iran. Once Hezbollah is established in Southern Lebanon, it's a matter of time before Iran will come in and attempt to make Lebanon a fundamentalist country. Then, Israel's security is also completely at risk. The rockets being fired from Southern Lebanon are not a new event. This has been happening for several years. It just doesn't make the news. Geez - must be falling through the cracks of that Jewish-owned media the quacks are spouting off about.

There should n't be any state based on religion. It will be the cause for future war.

I am ok with Israel as long as muslim states exist. They will each other. HAHAHA.

Religion is biggest evil of all evils. Religion may have started with good intention but the idea of greater goods is always become greater evil.

It is a neverending story. May be we need new messiah. Hahaha.

Ah, the 'ole liberal washed crapping on those who refuse to live in denial dealio.

Nice.

Jesus also taught man to recognize evil.
Me thinks a group of misfits whom give praise to their God by murdering those whom God has also created just because those slaughtered folks don't fit in with their demented idea of who deserves life, pretty much fit's the bill when it comes to recognizing the 'what is' of evil Islam.

Without getting personal, as some of you have done, you need to get your heads outta your a's while you still got heads.

When Islam begins to show that they can behave in a civilized manner, I will then happily respect their right to exist with the rest of humanity. Until then, my eyes are wide open to continually witness the Islamomites behaving like hateful anti-social misfits who display a total disregard for human life. Given half the chance (which your foolish denial assists) these evil doers just may turn out to be a even bigger global curse upon mankind then the nazies ever were.

They celebrate the murder of innocents time and time again, eg: they publicly happy dance Englands subway bombing, and the 9/11 horror.
Action speaks louder then all our meaningless words, my fearful blind sheeple. Go ahead and call recognizing evil a bad thing, or standing up to the Islam beast a racist endeavor. Whatever...Imho; your liberal brainwashing has tolerance confused with acceptance, but so be it...Pretend all you like that these freaks are normal, and their anti-social hate filled examples of their Muslim faith are justified. I envey your bliss.

There are lots of people balme hizbollah. WHo is hizbollah anyway? Labanese Shia muslim civilians.

When Bush says get rid of Hizbollah , he is saying killing all 1 millions shia lebanse muslims.

Who is murderer? BUSH.

Every muslim first duty is hate israel. You can't change that. No economy and no education change that.

Why?

Israel does n't exist. It was created by jews on arab land. It must be destroyed in the minds of muslims.

I have to agree with that if all the muslim states also become democratic countries. That is not going to happen.

It is time to modernize Koran. That is what going to bring peace.

Jews need someform of homeland (May be bush can give florida to them. HAHAHA). But i don't want to be another monster controlling the world.

Correction:
But i don't want Israel to be another monster controlling the world.

So I found one of Myron's posts on another blog related to some Canadian TV show - here it is...

"Guest
Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 02:59 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I reacon Debbie, being a female, has choosen to keep some of those whom a male would of most likely not of.
Sheldon is either the grand poser trying to play the voters for the big payday, or a bigger train wreak then reality tv, either way he should of got cut.
I can honestly say that there is not one person in that group worth voting for, including Debbie.
I am dumber for watching as much of that stupid show as I did.
Television is going to crap.

Myron Dadsson. "

I would also suggest that along with athiest you try and persuade your Dr to get you some Lithium.

Could someone point out to Moron Dadsson that when the rest of the world (read Europe and Christianity) were living in slums that were called cities, and actually afraid of water, and convinced that it caused sickness, the Muslims were the intellectuals of the world. the only reason the enlightenment happened was because the Muslims had maintained the libraries and studies that the Greeks and the Romans had left behind. Things that had been completely forgotten for hundreds of years.
Not only that, but the racist practices of those Christians led to the civilizations of the Middle East being close to destroyed. Sound Familiar?

Just so you know,

When the colonies fought the American revolution against the British (which was essentially over taxes, not the near total destruction and occupation of their cities) they begged the french for assitance in both cash and reinforcements.

Do you think that made us puppets of France? Is France calling all the shots here? Or is it possible that Hezbollah would simply accept help from vitually anyone that A) is currently not in the midst of destroying their country and b) has any assistance to offer at all.

Hezbollah was formed to drive out the Israelis and keep them out. period. The Israelis occupied and destroyed their country. under similar circumstances here, most Americans would do the same in defense of their country and we would accept help from Iran if it was necessary (or give it, as we did during the Iran contra scandal)

They may accept help from Iran and may be on friendly terms with them, but then so are Russia and China, who just invited to Iran to be part of a new OPEC type oil cartel, largely as the result of the totally inept foreign policies we have been saddled with here in the US.

It seems appropriate to mention one more time that Osama Bin Laden said in one of his open letters that he conceived of 9/11 when he saw the Israelis destroying the towers in Lebanon the first time they laid waste to the country. We seem to be trying SO HARD to actually start WWIII with any body who will take the bait.

So why not at least send the UN into the West Bank and East jerusalem and start clearing out all of the settlers there and let the UN occupy instead of the IDF until all of the settlers are gone while the rest of this is going on? Every one including the Israelis agrees that they must go at least in large part. Why not start now? send nato in to occupy lebanon, the UN to occupy the territories and rebuild the wall around Israels 67 borders to Keep the Israelis OUT of other people's sovereign territory.

But no, that seems to make far too much sense and would actually make obsolete the neocons beloved WWIII which they wrote about years ago in great detail the "Clean Break" paper which was written by members of our own government as a defense plan for Israel. It included occupying Iraq and wars with Syria and Iran
and suggested keeping most of the West Bank and E.J.

J

If a Mexican vigilante group called "La Raza II" did to Americans what Hezbollah has done to Israelis and if the Mexican government did what Beirut did to control the vigilante group (i.e., doing absolutely nothing), then we Americans would swiftly and thoroughly blow up the Mexican airport. If La Raza II were as tightly integrated into the Mexican economy as Hezbollah is integrated into the Lebanese economy, then we American would destroy key pieces (of the Mexican economy) that is supporting La Raza II. Pieces include airports, supermarkets, etc.

Here are the steps that we American would take.

1. Bomb in and around the area supporting La Raza II.
2. Round up most of the Mexican vigilantes and kill them all.
3. Keep a few of the vigilantes to obtain information about the whereabouts of the American citizens kidnapped by La Raza II.
4. Find and kill all other Mexicans who supported, directly or indirectly, La Raza II.
5. Run Mexico like a colony for 25 years.

There is no way, in hell, that Americans will allow any Mexican vigilante group to use Mexico as a safe haven from which to launch military attacks (including kidnappings) against American citizens.

Therein lies the cruz of the explanation for the differences in world opinion. Most people (e.g., most Thais, most Germans, most Americans, and most Swedes) would support the American position against Mexico. A small minority, of course, would oppose the American position and would favor allowing the Mexican vigilantes to continue to periodically kill Americans with an occasional missile. The minority feels that an American invasion of Mexican would cost too many lives.

One thing to note is that many Americans of Arab ancestry are hypocrites. They would support an American invasion of Mexico but oppose the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. In their racist minds, "Arab = good. any justified war that might kill Arabs = bad."

During the justified American+NATO military assault against Serbia, American weapons destroyed the lives of the Serbs in order to save Islamic Kosovars and other Muslims from Serbian aggression. Arabs, Muslims, and Arab-Americans cheered the American military operation.

Arabs, Muslims, and Arab-Americans think, "Muslim = good. any justified war that might kill non-Muslims = good."

Now, when Washington supports Jerusalem in its attempt to stop the Lebanese/Hezbollah militants from killing or kidnapping any more Israelis, Arabs, Muslims, and Arab-Americans condemn the American-backed Israeli military operation.

Arabs, Muslims, and Arab-Americans think, "Muslim = good. any justified war that might kill Muslims = bad."

Witness the total and utter hypocritical bigotry of Arab-Americans, Muslims, and Arabs in general.

Thom wrote:

"Could someone point out to Moron Dadsson that when the rest of the world (read Europe and Christianity) were living in slums that were called cities, and actually afraid of water, and convinced that it caused sickness, the Muslims were the intellectuals of the world. the only reason the enlightenment happened was because the Muslims had maintained the libraries and studies that the Greeks and the Romans had left behind. "

Yes, we all acknowledge that the Arabs (not the Muslims) had a rich culture many centuries ago. Then what happened? Muhummad came along and decided that the people who were to follow Islam should remain stuck in the 6th century. There the fundamentalists remain.

Has anyone read Amal Saad-Ghorayeb's Outlook article? Hexbollah WANTS Israel to respond with overwhelming force. There ligitamacy in Lebanon and the Arab world comes from resisting Israel. The more destruction and death that Israel can manifest, the mythology of Hezbollah as "resistance movement" becomes greater. That means more money, more guns and more power. Unfortunately, Israel and the U.S. fall for this trap everytime.

THIS POST IS ABOUT MEDIA? HERE'S SOME--

NBC reports at 6/35 ET that ISrael has just shelled an ambulance, clearly marked..and that "now medics are among those hurt..." And then some incredibly disturbing wrekage courtesty of the Israelis. COURTESY OF...they prove again they're just savages. Hurling as much wreckage as they can. And the idiot Rice
prances around. She's too stupid to be evil...

Bryan -
Perhaps we should all just lay down our arms and let the terrorists take over our countries, our governments and strip us of our personal freedoms. Unfortunately, the only way to deal with these barbarians is through strength. It's all they understand.

So you are clearly not American born - are you psychic? - related to Uri Geller?

It's just you seem to have a remarkable ability to read the minds of all American's which is fascinating.

I would suggest that you take your talents to Vegas and make a living either playing blackjack or perhaps reading peoples minds on stage. And when you are doing your readings be sure to include your interesting observations from an ethnic perspective.

Failing that you should send a resume to Fox news - I am sure they could find a spot for you.

Oops that last one was from Angus to Athiest...

You can't wipe out hizbollah. If you are , then you have killed all leabnese shia muslims. That will be a massacre of humangous proportion.

Weakening Hizbollah is also stupid idea. The way to deal with hizbollah would have been pressure syria from beginning. Now after killing 400 civilians , syria don't care about it. Now whatever syria does , it has mass support.

The real evil looks like Israelis in the minds of the world.

America is also made the situation by not saying neutral. Idiotic policies.

The only option left now is that Israel has to occupy lebanon. Israel will be bogged down in Lebanon like America in iraq.

How come sp many stupid people get elected in smart countries?. Stupid religious fantatic "simplistic" policies won't work in real life. It only makes people to do evil things.

World is complex. You have to nudge the world sometimes to get the job done.

Things are not black and white. If it is Israel should n't exist. Israel is occupying rabland by robbing and raping palestenians of everything. Everyone in the world knows of it. No real Muslim will never accept the existance of Israel. It is like accepting Allah does n't exist.

Will never happen.

The only way Israel have a peace is not give up everything but plan an agreement. Not in a sense that Israel gave up something.

To deal with muslims , never make them feel they won. That is like opening door of hell.

You have to attack the core idea of islam , if world wants to defeat islam. The problem is though every religion is flawed. It is just that Islam is directly against democracy. We have to make islam to pro democracy.

That means Saudi arabia has to change. That is the symbol of all problems. As long wahabism exists , it will continue to forment trouble in the world.

Thom;
Get with the now.
All I know, or ever want to know about freaky Islam is what I see Islam doing for all of mankind.
Is it asking to much to expect a religion to set an example which does not involve fear and dread?
I happen to think, by God, yes it is.
Apparently; to question a religion which inspires hate rather then setting moral examples does not sit to well with some of the washed within this space and time.

Angus the resident stalker.
So whats your point?
I was banging on "reality" tv on a tv site which banned me after just a couple posts cuz the 50,000 post count no life who runs that mind numbing glorification could not tolerate that which does not coincide with his own pea brained point of view,'sup j?

VOR,

Read the truth and not just zionist propaganda regarding ME:

A perilous excursion into the distant past, starting seven whole weeks ago

Hezbollah, Hamas and Israel: Everything You Need To Know

By ALEXANDER COCKBURN

As the tv networks give unlimited airtime to Israel's apologists, the message rolls out that no nation, least of all Israel, can permit bombardment or armed incursion across its borders without retaliation.

The guiding rule in this tsunami of drivel is that the viewers should be denied the slightest access to any historical context, or indeed to anything that happened prior to June 28, which was when the capture of an Israeli soldier and the killing of two others by Hamas hit the headlines, followed soon thereafter by an attack by a unit of Hezbollah's fighters.

Memory is supposed to stop in its tracks at June 28, 2006.

Let's go on a brief excursion into pre-history. I'm talking about June 20, 2006, when Israeli aircraft fired at least one missile at a car in an attempted extrajudicial assassination attempt on a road between Jabalya and Gaza City. The missile missed the car. Instead it killed three Palestinian children and wounded 15.

Back we go again to June 13, 2006. Israeli aircraft fired missiles at a van in another attempted extrajudicial assassination. The successive barrages killed nine innocent Palestinians.

Now we're really in the dark ages, reaching far, far back to June 9, 2006, when Israel shelled a beach in Beit Lahiya killing 8 civilians and injuring 32.

That's just a brief trip down Memory Lane, and we trip over the bodies of twenty dead and forty-seven wounded, all of them Palestinians, most of them women and children.

Israel regrets... But no! Israel doesn't regret in the least. Most of the time it doesn't even bother to pretend to regret. It says, "We reserve the right to slaughter Palestinians whenever we want. We reserve the right to assassinate their leaders, crush their homes, steal their water, tear out their olive groves, and when they try to resist we call them terrorists intent on wrecking the 'peace process'".

Now Israel says it wants to wipe out Hezbollah. It wishes no harm to the people of Lebanon, just so long as they're not supporters of Hezbollah, or standing anywhere in the neighborhood of a person or a house or a car or a truck or a road or a bus or a field, or a power station or a port that might, in the mind of an Israeli commander or pilot, have something to do with Hezbollah. In any of those eventualities all bets are off. You or your wife or your mother or your baby get fried.

Israel regrets... But no! As noted above, it doesn't regret in the least. Neither does George Bush, nor Condoleezza Rice nor John Bolton who is the moral savage who brings shame on his country each day that he sits as America's ambassador (unconfirmed) at the UN and who has just told the world that a dead Israel civilian is worth a whole more in terms of moral outrage than a Lebanese one.

None of them regrets. They say Hezbollah is a cancer in the body of Lebanon. Sometimes, to kill the cancer, you end up killing the body. Or bodies. Bodies of babies. Lots of them. Go to the website fromisraeltolebanon.info and take a look. Then sign the petition on the site calling on the governments of the world to stop this barbarity.

You can say that Israel brought Hezbollah into the world. You can prove it too, though this too involves another frightening excursion into history.

This time we have to go far, almost unimaginably far, back into history. Back to 1982, before the dinosaurs, before CNN, before Fox TV, before O'Reilly and Limbaugh. But not before the neo-cons who at that time had already crawled from the primal slime and were doing exactly what they are doing now: advising an American president to give Israel the green light to "solve its security problems" by destroying Lebanon.

In 1982 Israel had a problem. Yasir Arafat, headquartered in Beirut, was making ready to announce that the PLO was prepared to sit down with Israel and embark on peaceful, good faith negotiations towards a two-state solution.

Israel didn't want a two-state solution, which meant -- if UN resolutions were to be taken seriously -- a Palestinian state right next door, with water, and contiguous territory. So Israel decided chase the PLO right out of Lebanon. It announced that the Palestinian fighters had broken the year-long cease-fire by lobbing some shells into northern Israel.

Palestinians had done nothing of the sort. I remember this very well, because Brian Urquhart, at that time assistant secretary general of the United Nations, in charge of UN observers on Israel's northern border, invited me to his office on the 38th floor of the UN hq in mid-Manhattan and showed me all the current reports from the zone. For over a year there'd been no shelling from north of the border. Israel was lying.

With or without a pretext Israel wanted to invade Lebanon. So it did, and rolled up to Beirut. It shelled Lebanese towns and villages and bombed them from the air. Sharon's forces killed maybe 20,000 people, and let Lebanese Christians slaughter hundreds of Palestinian refugees in the camps of Sabra and Chatilla.

The killing got so bad that even Ronald Reagan awoke from his slumbers and called Tel Aviv to tell Israel to stop. Sharon gave the White House the finger by bombing Beirut at the precise times -- 2.42 and 3.38 -- of two UN resolutions calling for a peaceful settlement on the matter of Palestine.

When the dust settled over the rubble, Israel bunkered down several miles inside Lebanese sovereign territory, which it illegally occupied, in defiance of all UN resolutions, for years, supervising a brutal local militia and running its own version of Abu Graibh, the torture center at the prison of Al-Khiam.

Occupy a country, torture its citizens and in the end you face resistance. In Israel's case it was Hezbollah, and in the end Hezbollah ran Israel out of Lebanon, which is why a lot of Lebanese regard Hezbollah not as terrorists but as courageous liberators.

The years roll by and Israel does its successful best to destroy all possibility of a viable two-state solution. It builds illegal settlements. It chops up Palestine with Jews-only roads. It collars all the water. It cordons off Jerusalem. It steals even more land by bisecting Palestinian territory with its "fence". Anyone trying to organize resistance gets jailed, tortured, or blown up.

Sick of their terrible trials, Palestinians elect Hamas, whose leaders make it perfectly clear that they are ready to deal on the basis of the old two-state solution, which of course is the one thing Israel cannot endure. Israel doesn't want any "peaceful solution" that gives the Palestinians anything more than a few trashed out acres surrounded with barbed wire and tanks, between the Israeli settlements whose goons can murder them pretty much at will.

So here we are, 24 years after Sharon did his best to destroy Lebanon in 1982, and his heirs are doing it all over again. Since they can't endure the idea of any just settlement for Palestinians, it's the only thing they know how to do. Call Lebanon a terror-haven and bomb it back to the stone age. Call Gaza a terror-haven and bomb its power plant, first stop on the journey back to the stone age. Bomb Damascus. Bomb Teheran.

Of course they won't destroy Hezbollah. Every time they kill another Lebanese family, they multiply hatred of Israel and support for Hezbollah. They've even unified the parliament in Baghdad, which just voted unanimously -- Sunnis and Shi'ites and Kurds alike -- to deplore Israel's conduct and to call for a ceasefire.

I hope you've enjoyed these little excursions into history, even though history is dangerous, which is why the US press gives it a wide birth. But even without the benefit of historical instruction, a majority of Americans in CNN's instant poll -- about 55 per cent out of 800,000 as of midday, July 19 -- don't like what Israel is up to.

Dislike is one thing, but at least in the short term it doesn't help much. Israel's 1982 attack on Lebanon grew unpopular in the US, after the first few days. But forcing the US to pressure Israel to settle the basic problem takes political courage, and virtually no US politician is prepared to buck the Israel lobby, however many families in Lebanon and Gaza may be sacrificed on the altar of such cowardice.

"I am dumber for watching as much of that stupid show as I did.
Television is going to crap.

Myron Dadsson. "

Compare Thailand to Lebanon, Iran, Syria, and Saudia Arabia (LISS). Thailand is prospering and has a democracy.

Yet, LISS are authoritarian regimes.

Israel is not the reason that LISS is a failure.

What does Thai culture have that is missing from LISS culture?

Now consider Japan. It is a barren rock with no natural resources. The Japanese have prospered. The Palestinians are still stuck in poverty.

Israel is not the reason that Palestinians live in poverty.

What does Japanese culture have that is missing from Palestinian culture.

The gold standard of modernization is Eastern Europe. Why is the quality of life in Eastern Europe so much better than the "quality" of life in the Middle East? Instead of continuously comparing Western Europe to the Middle East and then concocting excuses "explaining" why the Middle East failed as a society, we should continuously compare successful emerging nations (like those in Eastern Europe) to the Middle East and should condemn the flaws in Arab culture.

You're welcome to post an article by a "self-described radical Irish journalist," (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Cockburn) but like everything else, IT'S JUST HIS OPINION. And I completely disagree with it. He fails to impress me with his journalistic style, and my guess is that he has a few anti-Israel biases that aren't quite making it out of his writing. Great to read another "objective" journalist.

from atheist:

"Compare Thailand to Lebanon, Iran, Syria, and Saudia Arabia (LISS). Thailand is prospering and has a democracy."

Perhaps but I am sure you are also aware that it (Thailand) has thousand upon thousands of young underage girls and boys who are forced to make their daily living in the sex trades.

I suggest you look elsewhere for your economic and moral beacons to make your moronic comparisons.

I loved the Alexander Cockburn article - as usual his writings contain many intersting facts that don't make it onto to the mainstream news thanks to the pro-israel gatekeepers strangling our journalistic integrity and freedom.

By the way he is Scottish by birth not Irish.

Alba go Bragh!!

Angus - Since you seem to feel you're the expert on everything on the planet, I feel compelled to write that Cockburn is a listed as a "self-described radical Irish journalist." I don't really care about his actual heritage as that is not the issue here.

Good for you if you loved his article. It's what I'd expect from your completely biased opinion.

There are at least two sides to this entire issue, and those of us with our eyes open can at least acknowlege this fact.

Angus - Since you seem to feel you're the expert on everything on the planet, I feel compelled to write that Cockburn is a listed as a "self-described radical Irish journalist." I don't really care about his actual heritage as that is not the issue here.

Good for you if you loved his article. It's what I'd expect from your completely biased opinion.

There are at least two sides to this entire issue, and those of us with our eyes open can at least acknowledge this fact.

"The Americans deserve to be targeted because of their support to the enemy. ... It is a question of time before the revolutionary organizations in the Middle East will start targeting the Americans," said Abu Nasser, speaking to WND from Nablus.

This is a quote from World Net Daily. The article was about how Jewish interests oversea (espeically in the U.S.) are under heightened security alert. These are exactly the types of people who are making the world a scary place. If these imbecilic barbarians don't like what's happening anywhere in the world, they unleash their terror on anyone they view as supportive or related to the issue. Supposedly, Hezbollah has sleeper cells in the U.S. and all over the world. Why should innocent people around the world live in fear? How can you possibly defend this threat of violence against anyone who doesn't agree with their cause?

Maybe you should all take a look at this interesting article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5211320.stm

Thank you July 24th, 10:00 pm. That was an excellent synopsis. (Readers would do well to go back and read this.)

Voice of Reason writes : "Unfortunately, the only way to deal with these barbarians is through strength. It's all they understand.
In so doing, Voice of Reason exposes himself as the barbarian. That kind of language -- "force is all they understand" -- dehumanizes the 'other' in the conflict and legitimizes acts of terror and murder against a whole category of human beings.
For years, the Israel-right-or-wrong crowd has been peddling the same line -- that Arabs only understand strength and force.
And look at where that racist claptrap has gotten them!
Every time Israel hits back by murdering 10 innocents for every one of its innocents who is killed, it demonstrates that it, more than "the Arabs," is the true barbarian.

The problem with a lot of Americans is they don't understand about the conflict. It is not about religion, it is about land-grabbing. The existence of Israel is a mistake. Take out Israel and world will be in peace. Now I understand why Hitler hate the Jews so much.

In your head much, Stalker???

By ALEXANDER COCKBURN

As the tv networks give unlimited airtime to Israel's apologists, the message rolls out that no nation, least of all Israel, can permit bombardment or armed incursion across its borders without retaliation.
.....

What about the 'Evil Apologists??? 'Sup Sheeple.

Seems to me that it's Israel who has retaliation on her side, seeing that all was barely tolerable before Hez_Freak thought it would be cool to embarrass The Chosen Ones.

Evil only understands deterrence.
Jew hating terrorists everywhere are now recieving the message loud and clear.
Mess with the bull, you get the horns. If you don't want the horns, then leave the Jews alone.
Makes perfect sense to this evolved civilized fearless freedom lover.

Go Freedom For ALL

Evil is as evil does.

While the censored press focuses more attention on the response of Israel while seeming to ignore terrorism now in the form of islamic jihad -- via Hezbollah, Chamas, Iran, just to name a few -- attacking Israel from the day it came to existance. I guess if you're a militant ilasmist you believe in America being a part of the censored press.

The attention in the press seems to focus primarily on the response from Israel, while ignoring terrorism now in the form of islamic jihad -- via Hezbollah, Chamas, Iran just to name a few -- attacking Israel since it became a state.

Daniel:

I am no barbarian. If you can't see how dangerous these militant Islamics are, then you must be blind. These are people who stone their own for adultery (or even the perception of it), have honor killings for the women who "dishonor" the family and don't believe in many of the personal freedoms that we have in this country and other civilized countries around the world.

You wrote: "That kind of language -- "force is all they understand" -- dehumanizes the 'other' in the conflict and legitimizes acts of terror and murder against a whole category of human beings."

Who's dehumanizing who? The "people" who blow themselves up along with innocent people? Not just in Israel, Daniel, but in Spain, in Mumbai, and all over the rest of the world. Who's dehumanizing themselves??? In addition, there is absolutely NO LEGITIMATE reason for acts of terror and murder by these people. If you can justify killing for those reasons, then YOU are the barbarian.

'Yes' says "Take out Israel and world will be in peace. Now I understand why Hitler hate the Jews so much"

Ahh, and the jewish people should have no fear about "anti-zionism" reprsenting anti-semitism.

Especially since this doesn't explain the terrorism that occurs where jews had nothing to do with them -- Train bombs in India, Train bombs in Spain, Train bombs in London, killing of innocent children in Chechnya, Rape and murder in Darfur....

vor wrote:

"Good for you if you loved his article. It's what I'd expect from your completely biased opinion.

There are at least two sides to this entire issue, and those of us with our eyes open can at least acknowledge this fact."

So your idea of "eyes open" and "two sides" is comments like "Unfortunately, the only way to deal with these barbarians is through strength. It's all they understand."....

So you must be very proud of the idf s shows of strength against the "barbaric" 3,4 5 6 7 year olds in Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank - I suppose in your eyes the israelis have taken out the "Generation NeXt" of recruits for the terror organizations and that legitimizes them as targets.

Also since Olmert's own father was a terrorist I wonder how things would have been if the British had bombed & shelled "Irgun" "lehi" and "hagganah" villages in the 40s...I think we would probably be reading about it every year as the "massacres" would be remembered and probably also have to sit through yet another boring spielberg propoganda piece..

voice of reason,

Israel has literally attempted to ethnically cleanse the territories for the last 40 plus years. In doing so they have destroyed the lives of millions of innocent people and have murdered tens of thousands in the process.The United States has bombed other countries for that type of behavior, and rest assurerd the rest of the world condemns Israel for these actions. And as a result Israel has needed our welfare in the form of 3 to 6 billion dollars a year in irect financial aide just to remain solvent. You see, the shortfall caused by the crushing expenses of the occupation and settler movement (it's very expensive to be that brutal to that many people for that long) has reduced Israel from being what would have been reasonably productive counrty to being utterly dependent on foreign aide for it's survival. So I am a little confused when you hold up Thailand against arab countries economically. Last I checked, we don't send any welfare to thailand at all in order to keep them afloat. I assume that is becuase they are not wasting their resources and destroying their world standing by continually trying to steal and then settle the land of it's neighbors.

Perhaphs if Israel gave up the failed, morally reprehensible, crushingly expensive attempt to ethnically cleanse the territories they might aspire to one day be doing as well as Thailand. Maybe they could also follow Thailand's democratic lead and allow their citizens the ability to marry anyone they want to with out getting thrown out of the country if they happen to marry a Palestinian. And may be Israel could follow Thailands lead and give it's people equal property rights.

Of course the Palestinians have been actively prevented by Israel from ever gaining any prosperity. To suggest otherwise is about as offensive and ridiculus as questioning why the population of the ghettos in Warsaw were not more productive. They were busy trying to remain alive under the boot of a brutal oppressor while living in a cage with few rights that other people took for granted.

To sum up, Israel has undermined their own prosperity and world standing by maintaining an utterly brutal policy that has lead to the unnecessary deaths of huge numbers of people (Israeli, Palestinian, Labanese, and American) and has ruined the lives of millions of Palestinians and the only way they have been able to continue on this cousrse is because the US has propped them up at huge expense for the last 40 years. This behavior has also served to radicalize their neighbors and is the primary catalyst of middle eastern terrorism (in other words, it led up to and inspired 9/11).

So please don't criticize the economic prosperity of Arab countries
when they have at least remained solvent without the aide of the US for the last 40 plus years. It's time for Israel to get a job and get a life, like Thailand has for instance.

J

Atheist,

Here's why there is no "La Raza II".

The US does not hold a huge population of mexican people hostage in lands that we recently have stolen from them and are trying to settle ourselves. (In fact, Mexicans enjoy an equal shot at citizenship here and enjoy exactly the same rights as all other Americans once they acheive it, and can live virtually anywhere they want and marry whomever they choose, and own any property they choose, not so in any case for the Palestinians). Those Hostages have not spilled back over into mexico to try to gain support to free their brothers and regain their land, and then we have not virtully bombed every major city in mexico back into the stone age in an attempt to stop them from creating a wider insurgency agaisnt us and then occupied mexico for 18 years until the people of mexico formed a resistance and run us out.

Then, That nonexistant group of mexican freedom fighters has not sat on the border, freaking out that we might destroy their cities and occupy their country again
because we have not and we won't.

But you can rest assured that if we did to the mexicans what the Israelis have done to the palestinians , there would be a La Raza II, and we would not have money left to send Israel their welfare check (which they need because of the massive shortfall caused by the occupationa and settlement movement) because we would be too busy going broke with our own morally reprehensible and failed occupation and settlement movement and the terror that it inspires, although I must say that our support of Israels failed policies have begun to needlessly cost us in money, lives, prestige and security.

Hope that helps you understand the history a little better.

J

J:
First of all, I wasn't the one who posted about Thailand. I wouldn't make those comparisons.

Second, Israel is NOT attempting to ethnically cleanse the territories. Where do you get this ridiculous stuff anyway? Trust me - if Israel wanted to cleanse anywhere, they would already have done it. They've had the might and technology to do whatever they wanted to do for years. And they haven't used it.

The Palestinians have not been "actively prevented from gaining economic prosperity by Israel." First of all their own leaders have cheated them. Where did the billions of dollars go that Yassir Arafat was responsible for? There was absolutely no accountibility for the money his party received in order to better the situation of the Palestinian people. I will absolutely NOT let you get away with saying that their current situation rests entirely with Israel. Your comparison to the Warsaw ghetto is very dramatic but not even close to the same situation.

Besides, in my opinion, it's not Israel's responsibility to help people whose charter calls for its destruction. Where are the other Arab nations, especially the wealthy oil states, who could help their Palestinian brethren? They could take some responsibility as well.

In addition, Israel is NOT completely dependent on the U.S. financially. Much of the U.S. aid that you're referring to is in the form of loan guarantees, not actual funding. I can assure you that if that stopped tomorrow, Israel could survive just fine without it. Israel has one of the most developed high-tech markets in the world, has developed countless advancements in medicine and agriculture and has a very well-educated population. You are sadly mistaken if you think that they actually need the U.S. financially.

One of the reasons that the U.S. and Israel have such a strong alliance is because Israel is the only democracy (or for your benefit, the truest thing to a democracy) in the entire Middle East. At least the U.S. isn't bowing to them because of oil as we do with Saudi Arabia.

It's very difficult to have a rational "conversation" with someone who is posting such obvious inaccuracies.

J:
Let me also add that the Israeli people do not spend their entire lifetimes, every waking hour and minute of their lives, dreaming up plots against the Palestinians, the Lebanese or anyone else for that matter. They are like any other group of people who want prosperity and security for their children and their country. They have every right to have that without terrorists blowing themselves up inside their borders or firing rockets into civilian areas. This conflict has never been one-sided, so don't make it so.

For your information, I do understand the plight of the Palestinian people and their desire for a nation of their own. They should have one. But I will disagree with you about their methods of attempting to secure what they want. There are innocent people on both sides, and you refuse to recognize that fact.

You can't reason with people motivated by religion, be it Judaism or Islam or Christianity.

"Faith" is the opposite of "reason."

Maybe you should read about the plight of the Arabs who live in Israel and who are being affected by the rockets being fired from Hezbollah. Rockets don't discrimate, you know.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/060725/3/42b66.html

discriminate - spelled wrong in last post

"Israel is the only democracy (or for your benefit, the truest thing to a democracy) in the entire Middle East."

I thought Iraq - Lebanon - & Palestine are all democratically elected governments ......

if u dont nheed it can we please have our billions back as we need it now...

Voice of reason,

Now we are getting somewhere. We both agree the settlements should go. For your information, I do not blame Israel the country, as I am quite aware that there are many people in Israel who oppose the settlements. Rather I blame the Settlers and the people in Israel and the US who support them. Israel would have attained peace long ago if it were not for them and they, as religious fanatics or ultranationalists do not care how many Israelis, Palestinians, Americans or Lebanese die as the result of their Fiasco, as long as they get to cling the land that they have stolen.

We need to move to end the settlements entirely, Now. Now would be the perfect time. If the US were to instigate this it would be the first real victory in the war on terror. It would also
make international relations much easier for both the US and Israel and would move US both closer to the moral highground

Most normal people here, even if they are very critical of Israel do not want to see it ended as a nation or even hurt. Rather they want to see it change, and come back into accordance with the laws (No Settlements on occupied territory!) that other countries follow.

And frankly, as much as I would like to see peace the ME, My first concern is for the security of the US, which will only begin to improve with regard to terrorism when all of the settlements are dismantled and the wall is built on the 67 borders (IF IT NEEDS TO BE BUILT AT ALL).

I would not have a problem with the overwhelming pro Israel stance of the US congress if they would also demand the end of the settlements at the same time, as it would be the beginning of peace and prosperity for Israel. sometimes I don't really think those politicians are as pro Israel as they are Pro votes, money, and blind ambition and let everything else be damned.

J

Voice of reason,

Now we are getting somewhere. We both agree the settlements should go. For your information, I do not blame Israel the country, as I am quite aware that there are many people in Israel who oppose the settlements. Rather I blame the Settlers and the people in Israel and the US who support them. Israel would have attained peace long ago if it were not for them and they, as religious fanatics or ultranationalists do not care how many Israelis, Palestinians, Americans or Lebanese die as the result of their Fiasco, as long as they get to cling the land that they have stolen.

We need to move to end the settlements entirely, Now. Now would be the perfect time. If the US were to instigate this it would be the first real victory in the war on terror. It would also
make international relations much easier for both the US and Israel and would move US both closer to the moral highground

Most normal people here, even if they are very critical of Israel do not want to see it ended as a nation or even hurt. Rather they want to see it change, and come back into accordance with the laws (No Settlements on occupied territory!) that other countries follow.

And frankly, as much as I would like to see peace the ME, My first concern is for the security of the US, which will only begin to improve with regard to terrorism when all of the settlements are dismantled and the wall is built on the 67 borders (IF IT NEEDS TO BE BUILT AT ALL).

I would not have a problem with the overwhelming pro Israel stance of the US congress if they would also demand the end of the settlements at the same time, as it would be the beginning of peace and prosperity for Israel. sometimes I don't really think those politicians are as pro Israel as they are Pro votes, money, and blind ambition and let everything else be damned.

J

VOR Wrote:

"J:
Let me also add that the Israeli people do not spend their entire lifetimes, every waking hour and minute of their lives, dreaming up plots against the Palestinians, the Lebanese or anyone else for that matter.

They are like any other group of people who want prosperity and security for their children and their country."

Maybe the people don't but the government and its zionist supporters sure seem to...btw how do you know how all Israeli's think?

Voice of reason,

Let's not let innacuracies go, indeed. The reason Israel would not attempt to simply wipe out the Palestinians is becuause israel would be attacked by other countries including the US if they tried. They have, however, been talking very openly for a long timw about entirely removing the palestinain people and forcing them into Jordan. Just read what plans the settlers have planned for them. You simply cannot deny that in the settlements, where Palestinian people once lived, Jewish settlers have moved in taken their land and forced them out into another area. they are no longer welcome to live within those areas and have no rights to vote or own property in those areas. this has been going on for 40 pus years and the settlers number 400,000, up from effectively 0.

Palestinian people cannot move freely in their own territory. movement is often restricted by the IDF entirely for long periods. they cannot leave their territry freely. they cannot collect their own tax money, israel does this and can cut it off at will.They are constantly assured by the words and actions of their closest neighbors, the settlers, that they will be removed entirely. Currently a huge wall is snaking through their territry, that restricts their access even more and cuts people off from goods and services and even their businesses or farms.

the settlers routinelty beat and even murder local palestinians.
As you know, a peace worker was shot while protecting palestinian children from such beatings and harassment. Palestinians have lived in a military zone for more than 40 years courtesy of Israel, and that presence is there for one reason. To protect and grow the settlements, which are expanding even as we speak here.

Now, tell me. what other country in the history of the world has ever prospered under such circumstances?

regarding the "Loans". these are loans which are always forgiven and never repaid. we have not gotten back a single dime of priniciple and very little interest from israel. You can get this information right from the GAO website and check it out for yourself.

So again, if Israel does not need 3 to 6 billion dollars a year, ( plus the massive amount of arms and other assistance we provide) then by all means lets stop giving it to them. We need the money here in the US! Rather, this is just what I have maintained it is: welfare for a country wihich would go under if we did not provide it for them. and the settlement movement (kicking out Palestinians from their own land to make room for 400,000 Israelis who plan on annexing as much of it as possible) is Ehtnic cleansing. Pure and Simple.

I read. israeli news sources, palestinian news sources, american and other international news sources. I know what is going on. please don't try that "get your facts straight" stuff when you are the one grossly misinterpreting the facts. Or if it is just "he said she said" , lets take a vote on it. OH!!! the overwhelming majority of thel residents of this planet, as indicated by the numerous UN resolutions on the matter agree with this assessment. IE, the EU, China Russia, The Middle East, South East Asia, India, the rest of the American continent and South America ect. ect.

I'm not sure how much more proof you need if you are even honestly seeking the truth.

J

Let us throw out religion of all manner,and then ask.Do palestinian people removed from there home and land have a right to resist?And what right do jews have to dictate there religion to the people of the region.And why should palestinians except this as fact, and live in a walled prison.So if i get this right palestinians are made refugees on 2500 year old writings,and are not expected to be enraged.By what logic is that reasoning.

The root of most of the trouble in the world today,can be traced back to israel.Israel is NOT the benevolent nation many people preceive it to be.Israel has been caught red-handed spying on America.Israelis have been caught in America near nuclear powerplants with military grade explosives,Israelis were arrested and detained with cameras fixed on the twin-Towers before they came down,and were arrogant enough to video tape themselves dancing and chearing.
So of you reading this (if you have the heart to post this message)may be saying "NO WAY,They're are friends".
Israel is such a friend to The U.S. they attacked a U.S. ship the USS Liberty,Israel took Patriot missiles paid for by the u.S. tax payer,and sold the technoloy to the Chinese,and did the same with the F-16.Israels motto is "BY WAY OF DECEPTION,THOU SHALL DO WAR"this means bomb a club,cafe,or train,and just blame it on someone else.
Mainly Arabs.With hollywoods help demonizing Arabs in the movies as the awful enemy,the brainwashing effects can be seen in peoples reations.After all only Arabs are terrorist Right? Wrong,Israelis were arrested in mexico on 911 in the Mexican congress with duffle bags loaded with explosives,more than 50 were arrested in the u.S. on 911 with vans load with traces of expolsives (military grade).
If one would follow the trail of the drug estacy,it will lead you back to israel.Israel is the biggest welfare recipient in the world,to the tune of sucking the American taxpayers out of more than 6 Billion dollars a year.Israel complains the weapons used aginst them came from Iran,yet the bombs,planes,tanks used by israel came from the U.S.paid for by YOU the taxpayer.

The root of most of the trouble in the world today,can be traced back to israel.Israel is NOT the benevolent nation many people preceive it to be.Israel has been caught red-handed spying on America.Israelis have been caught in America near nuclear powerplants with military grade explosives,Israelis were arrested and detained with cameras fixed on the twin-Towers before they came down,and were arrogant enough to video tape themselves dancing and chearing.
Some of you reading this (if you have the heart to post this message)may be saying "NO WAY,They're are friends".
Israel is such a friend to The U.S. they attacked a U.S. ship the USS Liberty,Israel took Patriot missiles paid for by the u.S. tax payer,and sold the technoloy to the Chinese,and did the same with the F-16.Israels motto is "BY WAY OF DECEPTION,THOU SHALL DO WAR"this means bomb a club,cafe,or train,and just blame it on someone else.
Mainly Arabs.With hollywoods help demonizing Arabs in the movies as the awful enemy,the brainwashing effects can be seen in peoples reations.After all only Arabs are terrorist Right? Wrong,Israelis were arrested in mexico on 911 in the Mexican congress with duffle bags loaded with explosives,more than 50 were arrested in the u.S. on 911 with vans load with traces of expolsives (military grade).
If one would follow the trail of the drug estacy,it will lead you back to israel.Israel is the biggest welfare recipient in the world,to the tune of sucking the American taxpayers out of more than 6 Billion dollars a year.Israel complains the weapons used aginst them came from Iran,yet the bombs,planes,tanks used by israel came from the U.S.paid for by YOU the taxpayer.
Yesterday july 23 2006 the israeli Puppet Gov.Arnold said all of California was behind israel,what a joke.For those that support israel do an internet search on the Talmud.After reading some Tidbits of the talmud see if you have any support for israel. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."

Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed
here's a tibit from the Talmud in reference to Goyim or Gentiles.
Still have support for israel?

GO ISRAEL!!!

What I know in my time.
Israel took a desert and through the grace of God they turned it into a paradise, and if their neighbors were not so hateful and jealous, they too could of been equally blessed.

Much Thanks to the Washington Post and whoever managed to get this site up.
May I be ever so bold as to suggest that you put a fork in it cuz this puppy is done.
What was a slice has now been made myopically repetitively boring by the self absorbed blinder wearing overstuffed.
The jews all bad, the sandrabs all good.
J knows all, and if your truth does not measure up to his truth, then you must be a racist.
Angus is very creepy, and the beat goes on.

To the blind fools blessed with freedom who refuse to acknowledge the evil that be flourishing about you, perhaps you do deserve that which Islamotard has in store for you.

Catch y'all somewhere, sometime.

Go Israel Forever
God Bless America cuz she most certainly is in need of saving.

God Bless All

To the anonymous poster who keeps bellowing "GO ISRAEL"...yes!, finally one can agree. Yes, do go Israel on into Lebanon on the ground and get your savage swaggering butts kicked. The mighty Israeli Army apparently isn't doing too well. And NOW calls for a buffer force. Still using American bombs to kill Lebanese women and children from afar, of course.

GO ISRAEL!! RID THE WORLD OF THE TERRORIST BARBARIANS!!!

ISRAEL FOREVER!!!

So Myron - how do you feel about the "Issies" as you put it now that they have killed one of your fellow countrymen who was there as a peaceful observer for the U.N.?

Reading over these posts, it's appalling to see how many of you are Jew-hating racists who unconditionally support the Arab and Muslim causes. Where are the moderates? Where are those of you who might be Arab or Muslim who actually have the intelligence, courage and insight to criticize what your terrorist Muslim fundamentalist brethren do around the world? I offer that challenge to those of you who can rise to it. Let me hear from those of you who can actually denounce terrorism by Muslim fundamentalists around the world (Spain, India, wherever) without pointing to Israel as the cause of all evil in the world.

It's going to be a deafening silence, I'm sure.

http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/article1197235.ece

NOW, LET'S SEE.....After watching the Israeli army mowing down stone throwing children in Palestine, and using them for target practicE... And their bulldozers in Jenin and swaggering savagery in the Gaza Srip and West Bank...and the killing yesterdayof UN observers (after being warned repeatedly of their presence), and over 400 innocent Lebanese. All against innocents...now that they're being clobbered by Real soldiers we're supposeed to mourn and call for a halt. Well, the world won't. Count on it. They're cheering. Maybe we don't need a cease fire yet, as Olmert is SUDDENLY CALLING FOR.

HA -
Yeah - the Arabs and Muslims all cheer whenever anyone else is killed around the world. (Spain, Mumbai, etc.) What a great culture and religion! Where can I sign up??

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

"GO ISRAEL!! RID THE WORLD OF THE TERRORIST BARBARIANS!!!

ISRAEL FOREVER!!!

Posted by: | July 26, 2006 10:10 AM"
To Disgusted:

And you say all the other posters are "jew-hating racists" ...I suggest you read back through these posts and other like minded blogs before you make such a ridiculous assertion...most of the hate comes from your "side" and most people here who take the opposite view are highly critical of israeli/zionist policies...if you feel that these policies speak for all the jewish people around the world then maybe you could make a thin argument but I doubt it....

I suggest that you save some of your disgust for the genocidal policies of the israeli government and its supporters in Washington.

Searching In Vain,

Angus has hit it on the head. (I believe he was refering to you and not "Disgusted")You either have not read this forum and seen the plurality of mostly respectful opinions here, or you equate any criticism of Israeli policies, policies that a great many Israelis and Jewish Americans abhor as well, as anti-semitic.

As far as the actual nazis and the like that post here, all normal people despise them and their message. If that's all your complaining about, then almost everyone else here agrees and has said as much on numerous occasions. Although I suspect some of them are not what they purport themselves to be, but are rather simply trying to degrade the whole debate with hate speech that taints an otherwise normal discussion.

Now to your actual question, there would, I'm sure, be uprisings and acts of terror in the world (by muslims and many other groups as well for that matter)even Israel took it upon themselves to act civilly towards it Muslim and arab neighbors.

It is just that Israel and by association, the US, would see a great deal less of it on their territories if they simply stopped the behaviors that have inspired more ME terrorism than anything else: ie the settlements and the occupation that supports them.

There are many terrorist groups that have nothing to do with Israeli behavior at all but are as predictable as the Palestinian situation is. The Irish commit acts of terror against the british to fight the occupation. It has a religious element to it, but it a mostly non religious in nature. They recieve funding from other Irish groups from around the world. Now I don't hear you dissing the whole Irish or Catholic community over the behavior of a minority of extremeist Irish people struggling against what they consider to be occupation.

But lets not stray from whats really at issue here. I will make two points in conclusion. there may be little we can do to quell extemists of any type around other parts of the world. there will always be extremeists, Like Tim Mcveigh in the US, The ultranationalist whacko who murdered Rabin and the stern gang who committed acts of terrorism against the British in order to gain control of Palestine. What we can do most effectively is to remove those policies in both countries that inspire terrorism and which are in and of themselves morally wrong and ill conceived in the first place, such as support for the settler movement. This will reduce a great deal of the regional conflict and lessen sympathies world wide for extremeist Muslims.

The last point uses Russia as a lesson in restraint. Israel has displaced 600,000 innocent Lebanese, killed almost 500 civillians, wounded thousands more, and destroyed lebanons infrastructure, all over two captured soldiers.

The Beslan school attack was one of histories most despicible and brutal attacks which killed hundreds, and mostly children.

Did Russia Strike back at Chechnya, Murdering it's citizens and laying waste to it's infrastructure?
No. As a civilized nation, they simply persisted in their mission to hunt the people responsible and they recently killed the leader of the raid, Basayev.

Israel's Massive overkill reaction to events will only serve to inspire terrorism, as it did the first time they bombed lebanon, which Osama Bin Laden said was the inspiration for 9/11. (wheres the GO ISRAEL guy now. Should Israel keep GOing until someone brings a nuke in a suitcase into the US as retaliation for our support or such barbarous actions when we have the power to stop them?)

As an American citizen, I want the US to be safe and secure. As a compassionate person I would like to see Israel be safe and secure as well. The answer to both issue as it pertains to the ME lies with ending the Settlements.

Tear down the settlements, and you tear down one of the main catlysts of terror in the ME. Other terror groups will be dealt with on a case by case basis, as they should be.

J

The Iraq prime minister critisizes Israel and all parliment have a hissy fit.What a joke,what is with this senate slobering and falling over each other to say i love Israel more,no i love israel more.Democracy and capitalism at it best.I just have to laugh at these clowns.They sound like a bunch of ignorrant racists.When in America it is conciderd a sin to care for an arabs life,you can then understand why the reserves are still here.There great grand daddys taught them plenty.

Israel is kaput - Arial Sharon is in better condition than the left-overs in Jerusalem.

J. (Great Post)

Searching in Vain/Voice of Reason and Disgusted are one and the same ..

Check the Iran blog.

So what, Angus? Still haven't responded to my questions? Can't think that hard, can you?

So Myron - how do you feel about the "Issies" as you put it now that they have killed one of your fellow countrymen who was there as a peaceful observer for the U.N.?

Posted by: Angus | July 26, 2006 10:12 AM

First off Agnus; the useless U.N. is even more corrupt then the average government, secondly; how do you know the guy in the wrong place at the wrong time was one of my countrymen, STALKER.
Please stop making it so freaking easy. :wink wink:

J-erk;
Russia's blunder contributed greatly to the Beslan school horror. Perhaps this is why they haven't retaliated.

Searching in vain:
Well done My Brother.
Just a warning about some here...Best you water down the truth about Islam now being satans play thing or chance getting falsely branded as a racist within this J-erk Forum, even when a google search on 'Islam Terrorist' would offer a written account of support for such a claim that still could not be all read if one were to go at it 24/7 for the remainder of their urantian life.

Matthew 16:3
Zechariah 12:3

Myron Dadson-tell me of the love that flows through you for all men,are is it just for like people.To me you sound like a racist that hides behind religion which you use to spread your hate.You act as if your religion beliefs have not been a plight to many a people.You are blinded by your self rightousness,it has made you hate.You are one of those that kill what they dont understand.You and the islamist deserve each other.

So what, Angus? Still haven't responded to my questions? Can't think that hard, can you?

Posted by: No name | July 26, 2006 03:22 PM

Well no game - i think you need to go back to the other blog to see the response ..

SIV:

"Let me hear from those of you who can actually denounce terrorism by Muslim fundamentalists around the world (Spain, India, wherever) without pointing to Israel as the cause of all evil in the world.

It's going to be a deafening silence, I'm sure."

When a blog that deals with the conflicts in those regions starts, I am sure that you shall find quite a few of the people who are posting against the brutality of Israeli policy in the Middle East, posting against the policies of whoever is indulging in similar tactics there. Till such a blog starts, please try and stick with comments on the Middle East.

Myron Dadsson,

Satans plaything!!!???!!??!

Satans Plaything!!???!??!?!??!?

No, I am Satans plaything. No, Really.

In fact he's standing right here whispering in my ear as I am typing to you now!

But he's not telling me what to write, as you may suspect, but rather, he'e annoying the hell out of me because all he is doing is constantly complaining about you, Myron Dadsson.

He is saying, "That damn Myron Dadsson!" He's taken all of my best ideas, you know, like head twirling, vomit spewing hate filled diatribes and the like and turned them into a subliterary art form that offends completely while enlightening no one and then uses scriptural references to fisnish up, just like I would." "that's My stuff, My act, My Ideas and he's taking credit for all of it."

Oh!, he just stormed off in a huff.

A combiation of therapy, Lithium and strong anti-psychotics might improve your life substantially.

P.S.

(and watch out for Satan, he's really pissed at you!)

J

Myron -

You posted to a Canadian site about a Canadian show so methinks you might be Canadian.

One of the innocents who lost their life as a result of israel's bombing of a UN PEACEkeepers post was a Canadian - hence my reference to one of your countrymen(or Woman).

Understand/Comprendez Vous?

Cheers Goyim:
I have no love for those who spread hate.
I was coined a racist by J-erk for suggesting that Muslim's need to ask why their religion attracts so many misfits?
If you want to also deny the fact that the such of does indeed exist and ignore the growing body count after each days slaughter carried out by one evil group or another in the name of Islam, that does not lessen the horrid acts which those monsters within that religion are demonstrating.
If anything, my honest question to the honest Muslims shows more concern for their souls then does ignoring the fact that their cult has become satans play thing.
Decent Muslims need to get their house in order. They need to take a stand against the evil that has taken their name, or they can be expected to be viewed quilty by association by any honest human with a working brain.
In truth, I respect and love all who know love and respect.
---

No Angus, I still don't understand the what or why concerning my posting on another site has to do with you.
---

J-erk;
You Funny.

Sadly; you may also be closer to a satan play thing then you want to know, and allow me to explain.
You pose as a Christain, or at least lay down the Jesus Lumber, yet you would support that which are the seed spreaders for the anti-christ.
Personally; I don't believe you do so deliberately, so on the evil doer list you get a pass. Imho; you just be somewhat ignorant in that regard is all.

So Myron - how do you feel about the "Issies" as you put it now that they have killed one of your fellow countrymen who was there as a peaceful observer for the U.N.?

The war in Lebanon is a war of proxies. The US seems to have commenced the second phase of its Middle East policy, ie the destruction of all Muslim states in the ME and replacing them with small, "easy" to manage ethnic clusters, which constantly fight one another and leave the way open for the US to control all resources of the region. The first was destruction of Iraq, and it was a spectacular success. It decimated a functioning state and replaced it with tens of groups fighting one another, accomplishing the mission. You thought Bush was a fool to parade before the "Mission Accomplished" banner? Think again.

Second phase involves bringing it on Syria. Next? Iran, than Turkey, followed by any other state, which even at this stage dares to challenge US supremacy. Time frame? I am 35 years old and I expect to witness these in my life time.

It goes without saying that this entails losses on both sides of the war.
More wars to come. And many folks here expressing their comments in the safety of their homes (including me) should prepare to be drafted and sent to ME to serve criminal policies of their leaders, for these shall need an enormous number of infantry. Impossible, you say? Well, those who live shall see.

Peace (!)

So Myron - how do you feel about the "Issies" as you put it now that they have killed one of your fellow countrymen who was there as a peaceful observer for the U.N.?

Posted by: Angus | July 26, 2006 10:47 PM
---

It sucks.
But normal freedom loving folk who matter know that the Issies were just defending themselves from the despot Hezzies who had intentionally placed themselves between the observation post and the Issies, before they begun their attack.
No big surprize there, seeing that Islamotards see nothing wrong with ambushing their enemy while hiding within schools full of kids, hospitals full of the disabled, etc, etc.

The Issies are now acting like the Islamos for one reason only, and unlike the sick and twisted Islamotards, they will cease to do so when the enemy who brings the fight to them has been rendered ineffective, or the end time brings it's final and temporary set back upon her.
Unfortunately (until the one and only true God makes his move) for the whole of this earth; the Islamos will continue their global butcherings only until they rule the all of this earth, or are stopped from doing so.
---

ozyaman;

The free world had to stop Hitler. Islamo_Insanity is just another version of the same thang.
Yes, war is evil, but sometimes it is a necessary evil because evil dictakes it to be so.
If this Issie_Fit is the beginning of a coalition led phase two (hope so) for ridding this earth of this Islamo_Sickness, it works for freedom, is long overdue, is neccesary, and should be a huge plus for the true global Muslim community.
Mussies should think of it as if it were a cancer operation, and they are the cancer ridden patient.

God Bless All The Civilized People of This Earth Who Know Love.

Myron,you must feel alone in your position on this site, but know that there are other people here who support what you're saying. Keep up the good work.

OH GOD, HOW STUPID WE AMERICANS ARE!!!
The jewish owned and operated mainstream press has said for years how Americans support Israel... it was stated, woven in stories and "assumed" in every instance.
Thrus out isn't true. See the new polls.
Just another exampleof being had. Like the ruse to get us into Iraq. And also note that the AIRPAC bought and paid for US congress therefore
acts against it's own constitutency. See the new polls.

myron wrote:

"It sucks."

"But normal freedom loving folk who matter know that the Issies were just defending themselves from the despot Hezzies who had intentionally placed themselves between the observation post and the Issies, before they begun their attack."

Interesting the only comment you have about the death of one of your countrymen "it sucks" ..

You might want to read up a little and understand that the UN told the israelies TEN times that artillery shells and bombs were landing on or near their post. Every time the Israeli commander told them it would stop .....IT DID NOT STOP UNTIL THEY WERE ALL DEAD.........

"But an internal report on the incident says there were more than 20 aerial and artillery attacks on the post on Tuesday, including four artillery rounds that directly hit the UN position an hour before the fatal guided bomb attack that killed the unarmed personnel taking refuge in a bomb shelter."

So to anyone who has followed Israels recent history of accidently killing reporters and peace activists (let along thousands of women and children) none of this is any surprise. But props to you for finding a way to exonerate israel - they are lucky to have great minds such as yours and "proIsrael and proud of it " on their side.

Btw if you are really a Christian I suggest you read the Sermon on the Mount as I think you may have missed some of it.

The slaughter continues:

By Robert Fisk,
The Independent
This mother and son were in a convoy fleeing danger yesterday when the Israeli air force bombed the rear minibus, causing carnage.

They are in the schools, in empty hospitals, in halls and mosques and in the streets. The Shia Muslim refugees of southern Lebanon, driven from their homes by the Israelis, are arriving in Sidon by the thousand, cared for by Sunni Muslims and then sent north to join the 600,000 displaced Lebanese in Beirut. More than 34,000 have passed through here in the past four days alone, a tide of misery and anger. It will take years to heal their wounds, and billions of dollars to repair their damaged property.

And who can blame them for their flight? For the second time in eight days, the Israelis committed a war crime yesterday. They ordered the villagers of Taire, near the border, to leave their homes and then - as their convoy of cars and minibuses obediently trailed northwards - the Israeli air force fired a missile into the rear minibus, killing three refugees and seriously wounding 13 other civilians. The rocket that killed them is believed to have been a Hellfire missile made by Lockheed Martin in Florida.

Nine days ago, the Israeli army ordered the inhabitants of a neighboring village, Marwaheen, to leave their homes and then fired rockets into one of their evacuation trucks, blasting the women and children inside to their deaths. And this is the same Israeli air force which was praised last week by one of Israel's greatest defenders - Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz - because it "takes extraordinary steps to minimise civilian casualties".

Nor have the Israelis spared Sidon. A heap of rubble and pancaked walls is all that is left of the Fatima Zahra mosque, a Hizbollah institution in the centre of the city, its minaret crumbled and its dome now sitting on the concrete, a black flag still flying from its top. When Israeli warplanes came early yesterday morning, the 75-year-old caretaker had no time to run from the building; he died of his wounds hours later. His overturned white plastic chair still lies by the gate. The mosque is unlikely to have been used for military purposes; a school belonging to the Hariris, Sidon's all-powerful Sunni family, stands next door; they would never have allowed weapons into the building.

Not that Hizbollah - which killed two more Israeli civilians with their rockets in Haifa yesterday - have respected Sidon, whose population is 95 per cent Sunni. They tried to fire Iranian-made missiles at Israel from the seafront Corniche and from beside the city slaughterhouse last week. On both occasions, residents physically prevented them from opening fire.

The multimillion-dollar Hariri Foundation - created by the former prime minister, Rafik Hariri, who was assassinated last year - has helped 24,000 Shia refugees out of the south and on to Beirut but its generosity has not always been happily received. One group of refugees sheltering in a technical school in Meheniyeh punched and taunted Hariri workers. Elsewhere, the foundation's staff have been cursed by fleeing families. "They are telling us that we are working for the Americans and that this is why we are taking them out," said Ghena Hariri - Rafik's niece and a Georgetown graduate. "It is something that drains our energy. We are working 24 hours a day and at the end of the day they curse us. But I feel so sorry for them. Now they are being told by the Israelis to leave their villages on foot and they have to walk dozens of kilometres in this heat."

It's not difficult to see how this war can damage the delicate sectarian framework that exists in Lebanon. One group of Shia families - housed in a school in the Druze mountains of the Chouf - tried to put Hizbollah's yellow banners on the roof and members of Walid Jumblatt's Druze Popular Socialist Party had to tear them down. Their act may have saved the refugees' lives.

Yet many of the Shia in this beautiful Crusader port have learnt how kind their Sunni neighbours can be. "We are here - where else can we go?" Nazek Kadnah asked as she sat in the corner of a mosque which Rafik Hariri built and dedicated to his father, Haj Baha'udin Hariri. "But they look after us here as their brothers and sisters and now we are safe."

These sentiments provoke some dark questions. Why, for example, can't these poor people be shown the same compassion from Tony Blair as he supposedly felt for the Muslims of Kosovo when they were being driven from their homes by the Serbs? These thousands are as terrified and homeless as the Kosovo Albanians who fled to Macedonia in 1998 and for whom Mr Blair claimed he was waging a moral war. But for the Shia Muslims sleeping homeless in Sidon there is to be no such moral posturing - and no ceasefire suggestions from Mr Blair, who has aligned himself with the Israelis and the Americans.

And what exactly is the purpose of driving more than half a million people from their homes? Many of these poor people sit clutching their front-door keys, just as the Palestinians of Galilee did when they arrived in Lebanon 58 years ago to spend the rest of their lives as refugees. Yes, the Shia Muslims of Lebanon probably will go home. But to what? A war between the Hizbollah and a Western intervention force? Or further bombardment by the Israelis?

The Sidon refugees now have 36 schools in which they can shelter - but they are the lucky ones. Across southern Lebanon, the innocent continued to die. One was an eight-year-old boy who was killed in an Israeli air raid on a village close to Tyre. Eight more civilians were wounded when an Israeli missile hit a vehicle outside the Najem hospital in Tyre. And during the morning, one of Lebanon's journalists, Layal Nejib, a photographer for the magazine Al-Jaras whose pictures were also transmitted by Agence France Press, was killed in her taxi by an Israeli air strike near Qana, the same village in which 106 civilians were massacred in a UN base by Israeli artillery shells in 1996. She was only 23.

In her marble-walled home above Sidon, Bahia Hariri - Ghena's mother, the sister of the murdered former prime minister and a local member of parliament - sat grim-faced, scarcely controlling her fury. "We are in this terrible situation but we haven't any window to resolve this situation," she said. "Rafik Hariri is no longer with us. The international community is not with us. Who is with us? God. And the old Lebanese. And the Arab world, we hope, will help us. The only resistance we can show is to be a united Lebanon. But we have only a small margin in which to dream."

Myron Daddson-You will never be able to make me see the zionist way.For me zionism is a closed club, surrounded by racists.I was Always free to love who i chose,there were no pre conditions.My mom didnt say marry a cree or marry a scot both races in my history.I dont know of any natives that married a jew.Maybe you are just foreign to us.So if you are asking me to know you from a book,well that is not how i work.I have had dealings with jews but never social.Ive always sided with the palestinian cause,because i feel them in my soul.

Myron Dadsson,

Please provide any source that indicates that what you have said is true, that Hezbollah were hiding so close to the UN base that Israel had to keep shelling them..

If you cannot, then we all can assume that you base your opinions on things that you imagine only and not on any sort of "factual" basis.

So far, Israel has apologized, but offered no such explaination, and as Angus has pointed out, the reported facts completely contradict what you are saying and seem to indicate that Israel may resent the presence of UN observers, in that they called 10 times about the bombing before they were killed and were repeatedly promised that it would end.

The reason why you may be in the minority here, as "Pro Israel and proud of it"
suggested is because few people are comfortable simply making up facts out of whole cloth to fit the opinion they wish was true, unless they are bigoted or radicalized, or both, as you appear to be.

J

Israel good,America good.God bless America.I never seen so many Christians and Jews make so much money off the war on terrorism.Please let me have stock in your buddys companys,then i will say what a great democracy we live in.Were do dicky and Donald and Goergie have stock.And have they been made richer by the war and bird flu.No,no self respecting Christian would become rich on playing on others fears.Whats that saying, its easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heavon.Or do American Christians have a free pass.Or maybe they rewrote it into the constitution.So when the greedy stand before the nation and say God bless America,they might want to read the whole Bible.I see the people of the middle east giving the shirt off there back for there fellow man.Yet the billionaires in America are Gods people.Inside tradings not a sin just a nessasary evil.Our politicians live in a different zip code.Makeing deals with a wink and a loophole lawyer.So bush the loving Christian is worth half a billion dollars while people live ten to a small house.Its all corrupt and power.Tell me were is the Christian in the Bush administration.The billionaire club,Jews and Christians united.If you dont love money and power.political life is not for you,but dont become a member of an aid group, you will be bombed.

to Atheist, Myron, Saxyboy, and all other blind supporters of Israels self destructive behavior: Try discrediting this guy.

To everyone else, This is quite illuminating. If you live in New York, Vote for this Mr Tasini!!!

Touching The Third Rail: Speaking Some Truth
Submitted by Jonathan Tasini on July 26, 2006 - 2:24am.
When I announced that I was entering the race for the U.S. Senate, I began with a quote from Martin Luther King, Jr.: "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." I am not a professional politician whose sole goal is to accumulate power so I have the freedom to speak my mind and I will not be silent.

I've touched the "third rail" of politics in New York: the Israel-Palestine conflict, the dreadful occupation and the never-ending violence that is spinning out of control, in large part because the United States--and politicians like Hillary Clinton--continue to blindly pursue a one-sided policy in the Palestinian-Israel conflict, a policy that is causing more death and sorrow for civilians on all sides of the conflict and, ironically, is hurting the security of Israel.

From the beginning of this race, I was committed to speaking the truth, whether about the Iraq war/occupation or abusive corporate power or the corruption coursing through our political system. People are simply fed up with the pandering, the triangulation and the inability to speak the truth that is endangering our country's future, our relations in the world and our well-being at home. We need a real opposition party, a Democratic Party with a vision that has the spine to stand for something authentic and honest.

Voters should know a little about where I come from on the issue of Israel-Palestine and the raging conflict engulfing the region today. I speak about Israel out of love and pain, in the same way that I am a deeply patriotic American who is harshly critical of our government and its behavior in Iraq--and of Hillary Clinton's vote to send our men and women to die into an illegal, immoral war.

My father was born in then-Palestine. He fought in the Haganah (the Israeli underground) in the war of independence; my father's cousin, whose name I carry as a middle name, was killed in that war. I lived in Israel for seven years, during which I went through the 1973 war: a cousin of mine was killed in that war, leaving a young widow and two children, and his brother was wounded. My step-grandfather, an old man who was no threat to anyone, was killed by a Palestinian who took an axe to his head while he was sitting quietly on a park bench. Half my family still lives in Israel. I have seen enough bloodshed, tears, and parents burying their children to last many lifetimes.

For that reason, I believe passionately in a two-state solution, which includes a strong, independent, economically viable Palestinian state existing along side a strong, independent, economically vibrant Israel. It is the only solution that will bring peace to the civilians who now live in fear of death raining down from above--either because of the missiles of Hezbollah or the bombs of Israeli aircraft.

I do not believe Israel is a terrorist state. I do believe that Israel has committed acts that violate international standards and the Geneva conventions. In Israel, such a statement that the military has committed acts that violate the Geneva convention and international standards and has also engaged in torture (or, as it is called, "moderate pressure") would be a subject of debate but hardly considered novel or particularly radical. Among the many sources for the truth, beyond my personal experience, is the Israeli human rights organization, B'Tselem. If you visit the organization's website, you will find condemnation of both Israeli and Palestinian violence against civilians of each side.

Here is what B'Tselem says about the current escalation: "...the organization reiterates that international humanitarian law (IHL) obligates all parties taking part in hostilities to refrain from launching attacks against civilians or against civilian objects."

"IHL requires that the combating sides direct their attacks only against specific military objectives, take cautionary measures to prevent injury to civilians, and refrain from disproportionate attacks, i.e. attacks directed against legitimate targets, but that are likely to cause excessive harm to civilian. Furthermore, IHL clearly forbids the intimidation and terrorising of civilians, as well as collective punishment."

"Over the past week, Israel has killed hundreds of Lebanese civilians in its attacks against targets in Lebanon. There is a concern that at least some of them were disproportionate attacks, which constitute war crimes. In addition, Israel has launched deliberate attacks against civilian infrastructure throughout Lebanon, such as bridges, the Beirut international airport , the electricity supply and fuel reservoirs. There is a concern that such attacks are intended to put pressure on the Lebanese Government and not to obtain a specific military advantage. If this is the case, these attacks constitute collective punishment and a grave violation of IHL. Moreover, even if these targets constitute legitimate military objects, or civilian objectives that may be used for military purposes, Israel must respect the principle of proportionality and refrain from attacks that would cause excessive harm to civilians."

The problem is not the debate in Israel. The problem is the debate--or lack thereof--in the United States.

Senator Clinton's spokesperson has called my comments about Israel's conduct "beyond the pale." With all due respect, it is Senator Clinton's behavior, lack of leadership and failure to call for a respect for international law that should be questioned by the press, the Jewish community and the voters of New York. At a time when the violence against people on both sides of the border has killed hundreds of innocent people (mostly Lebanese), Hillary Clinton has fanned the flames of the conflict by recognizing and condemning the violence only against Israelis and effectively encouraging military action. I, too, have stated clearly, from the outset, that Hezbollah's actions violate international law. But, to ignore Israel's actions is abhorrent, weak and cowardly.

Senator Clinton, you are no friend of Israel. A friend of Israel, not someone who simply seeks votes, would understand that employing collective punishment against people in Lebanon only embitters a population, possibly for generations, and that even a short-term military victory will be empty if it leaves behind a shattered country. As an article in The New York Times illustrated: "We're not Hezbollah supporters, but we cannot excuse what the Israelis are doing," said Rima Beydoun, a secular Shiite who owns an advertising agency. "We knew there would be repercussions, but no one expected they would be like this," Mr. Salhab, the filmmaker, said of Shiite support for Hezbollah. "I am very critical of that part of my country, but I have to put it aside, because we are being destroyed. At this point, I can't just say: Hezbollah, go to hell."

A friend of Israel, not someone who simply seeks votes, would never have stood before the "security wall" in the West Bank, as Senator Clinton did, and praised it--even though it has been found to be illegal under international law and by the Israeli Supreme Court (which said that, if a wall needed to be built, it should not stray outside the "green line" into the occupied territories). A friend of Israel would argue strenuously that Israel's moral fiber and its security is weakened every moment that that wall stands in its place, in violation of the law of Israel, severing families from their land, separating people and filling more people with rage and despair.

A friend of Israel, not someone who simply seeks votes, would deplore the collective punishment employed by the Israeli army in Gaza. As Rabbi Michael Lerner has suggested, in the wake of the democratic elections that brought Hamas to power in Gaza, "Instead of narrowly focusing on Hamas' capacity to make war, the Israelis chose the path of collective punishment, a frequently ineffective counterinsurgency policy used to eliminate public support for resistance movements. In the height of the oppressive summer heat, Israel bombed the electricity grid, effectively cutting off Gaza's water and the electricity needed to keep refrigeration working, thereby guaranteeing a dramatic decrease in food for the area's already destitute, million plus population. This act was yet another violation of international law that include[d] the arrests of thousands by Israelis and the shooting of Qassams at population centers by Hamas."

I make this offer: Senator Clinton, come out into the public arena, stop hiding behind your spokespeople and spinners and image consultants. Let's debate the future of Israel and Palestine, publicly, on television, in front of the voters. Right now, in the coming days because the violence in the Middle East is rising. Pick the time and place.

I would end with this thought: As a Jew, I have always been proud of the Jewish concept of "Tikkun Olam" or "repairing the world." I like to think that that is what brought so many Jews into the civil rights and labor movements in the 1960s and 1970s, and into the current anti-war movement--and, personally, guided me into the world of social justice work. I feel great sorrow that Israel is an occupier of another people and I believe that Israel can never be whole and can never be at peace until that occupation is ended in a just way. And I also believe that the concept of Tikkun Olam means that we must never be silent.

Jonathan Tasini's blog

Interesting the only comment you have about the death of one of your countrymen "it sucks" ..

You might want to read up a little and understand that the UN told the israelies TEN times that artillery shells and bombs were landing on or near their post. Every time the Israeli commander told them it would stop .....IT DID NOT STOP UNTIL THEY WERE ALL DEAD.........

Posted by: Angus | July 27, 2006 11:08 AM
---
Actually Agnus, my first answer to you concerning the same question which you asked twice was, 'he was in the wrong place at the wrong time'
Gee, I guess you forgot to mention that the Iraelis were also telling the U.N to get the hell outta there for 6 hrs cuz they were in a danger zone.
The U.N prolly reaconed that the Israelis would put their own lives in danger when being attacked upon by the despot Hezzies, or some other stupid thing. :big eye roll:
What were they even doing there, should be the question of interest, by NO, lets use their retardation to discredit the Jews cause it's just so damn convenient for your kind of Jew hater to pass up...Grates to you and your kind for being played by the evil Hezzies.

J;
You have given me little reason to even like you, and now you ask me to do your homework for you.

Okay, just this once for the board bully.

UN Peacekeepers Begged Hezbollah to Stop Using Them As Human Shields. UN, LA Times Blame Israel Anyway.

http://www.israpundit.com/2006/?p=2008

Oh wait, that prolly won't do it for you evil lovers cuz it's not from some Jew Hater Rag.
Anywho; to the both of you, in the future if you want to nit pick, I suggest you get yourselves a monkey

Go The Good Guys whom I too am proud to stand up for through their very trying time.
I will never understand how blind nit pickers like Angus and J-erk can sleep at night...How wonderful it was to have folk like them around when Hitler was in his evil prime. How can they discard the global evil that clearly be, and place all the blame on a nation who has no choice but to resort to hard measures to protect her good self.

For all the evil apologists:

They came for the Communists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Communist;
They came for the Socialists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Socialist;
They came for the labor leaders, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a labor leader;
They came for the Jews, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Jew;
Then they came for me - And there was no one left to object.

- Martin Niemoller, German Protestant Pastor, 1892-1984

GO MYRON!!!

Thanks myopiaron - I was really looking for a new place to get my information on the whole ME problem and I think "Israpundit" definately seems a better source for me than The Washington Post, MSN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS etc. etc.

I hear they are doing a follow up story informing us how hezbollah secretly tricked the israelis into killing the UN Guys by sending false information that they had a new hard core special forces brigade that wore blue helmets and had the letters UN emblazoned everywhere but it stood for "Uber Nazis" ..

Whats their next breaking story "Marvin the Martian - Anti Semite or Scientology's True Leader"

and remember this mr so called Christian...

"Blessed are the Peacemakers............"

So, J found a Jew who can be critical of Israel. Someone who can back up all your claims. Big deal! There are thousands of them. That's because many Jews are intelligent, critical thinkers. Can't say the same about the people who refuse to think critically about the Islamic fundamentalists/terrorists.
J -show me a similar type of posting from the "other" side, and you main actually gain some credibility on this site.

here you go myopiaron...more info for you ...btw the nearest hb position to this site was 500 meters....

"Blessed are the Peacemakers...."

The UN warned Israel with at least 10 separate telephone calls during six hours that repeated aerial and artillery attacks had already landed at or dangerously close to their post in Khiam, south Lebanon, before the bombing that killed four of its observers there on Tuesday.

While expressing their "sorrow" Ehud Olmert, Israel's Prime Minister, and Tzipi Livni, the Foreign Minister, sharply criticised Kofi Annan, the UN secretary general, for suggesting the attack on the Khiam post was "apparently deliberate."

But an internal report on the incident says there were more than 20 aerial and artillery attacks on the post on Tuesday, including four artillery rounds that directly hit the UN position an hour before the fatal guided bomb attack that killed the unarmed personnel taking refuge in a bomb shelter. The report says that, each time, the Israeli officer promised that the attacks would stop.

When they failed to do so, the UN Deputy Secretary General Mark Malloch Brown, contacted in New York, also telephoned the Israeli officers to urge a halt to the attacks. Lt-Col John Molloy, the Irish chief liaison officer between UN forces in south Lebanon and the Israelis, warned Israel six times that air strikes threatened the lives of the UN observers before the direct hit.

Ireland's Foreign Ministry said yesterday: "He warned: 'You have to address this problem or lives may be lost'." Dermot Ahern, Ireland's Foreign Minister, summoned Israel's ambassador to his office in protest and declared "Evidence we have would suggest this was either an incredible accident or else was in some way directly targeted."

Mr Annan's statement says that General Alain Pelligrini, the UN force commander in south Lebanon, had been in "repeated contact with Israeli officers ... stressing the need to protect that particular UN position" .
The UN released a picture of the position showing the letters "UN" emblazoned in large black letters on all sides, and officials said a light blue UN flag hung from a nearby flagpole was roughly 50ft high.

Jan Egeland, the UN's humanitarian co-ordinator, said "We did repeatedly in recent days say to Israel that this was an exposed position, that Hizbollah militants were 500m away shielding themselves near UN workers and civilians. That's why it is so inexplicable that what happened happened."

The internal reporting is understood to say there were 17 aerial bombing attacks on Tuesday within 1,000m of the UN position and another 12 artillery shells within 150m ­ of which four were direct hits on the position. The dead observers were a Finn, an Austrian, a Canadian and a Chinese.

The Chinese government strongly condemned the attack yesterday, and the Finnish European Union presidency declared: "Attacks against UN personnel are unacceptable."

Col Olivier Rafowicz an IDF spokesman, said an an investigation was under way but the bombing could have occurred as a result of failure of co-ordination, "problems of weapons or targeting, or technical problems. "

Ms Livni said she was "more than disappointed" by Mr Annan's statement, adding: "There will never be an army commander that will intentionally aim at civilians or UN soldiers." Asked whether the attack on the UN post might deter countries considering contributing to the multinational force that Israel wants to maintain a buffer zone on the Lebanese side of the border, Ms Livni said she did not think so because the governments would realise that the bombing was not deliberate. "There is a war," she said. "These things can happen."

So on NPR yesterday there was a news report that said the IDF had moved into Gaza and 23 people had been killed...14 of whom were militants!!

I was waiting to hear what came next but that was it .....didn't reporting used to be "x were civilians".....

Looks like even NPR is starting to knuckle under...

Angus; I am growing ever so tired of your childishness.
Do you even know how to work a google search thingie???...Ask your mommy to show you how.

The NY Sun reports that:

"A Canadian U.N. observer, one of four killed at a UNIFIL position near the southern Lebanese town of Khiyam on Tuesday, sent an e-mail (read excerpts here) to his former commander, a Canadian retired major-general, Lewis MacKenzie, in which he wrote that Hezbollah fighters were "all over" the U.N. position, Mr. MacKenzie said. Hezbollah troops, not the United Nations, were Israel's target, the deceased observer wrote."

And guess what, Hagus? Canada's very own Prime Minister is putting the onus on the U.N for the CANADIANS death. I fully expect him to also include the evil-hezzies into the blame mix once he sorts out all THE FACTS.
But you know better, right clone.

J-oke;
All the Jonathan Tasini's in the world can not change the fact that Israel is now at war with the same beast who would place America's head on a spit if it could.

So here you go Myron - your friend piapot had already posted this link on another blog - you of course are paraphrasing and extrapolating so here you go.

This bit was from pipot

"Read it and let's see what you think:"

Hezbollah was using UN post as 'shield'
Canadian wrote of militia's presence, 'necessity' of bombing

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=37278180-a261-421d-84a9-7f94d5fc6d50

Posted by: proIsrael and proud of it | July 27, 2006 05:30 PM

Well piapot...

I read it and basically all it is - is one UN guys interpretation of an email sent 9 days ago by a peacekeeper at the post - even the Israelis have not made this claim yet but the international zionist spin machine goes into overdrive to rationalize this...

Perhaps the most interesting part of the article is the last line...

"If indeed Israel was attempting to hit Hezbollah fighters in the area, it hasn't yet used the excuse to explain its actions because it wouldn't make it any less guilty in the world's eyes, Capt. Forsberg said."

Posted by: Angus | July 27, 2006 06:22 PM

And mynor here's a couple of more for you to google with ......

Also you may want to do a little more research on the history of israel and then UN - I can think of two without even researching - the last one at Qana in Lebanon approximately 10 years ago when the israelis killed 110 plus civilains and UN Peacekeepers in another 'accident' in very similar circumstances...

And of course the terrible story of Count Bernadotte - a man who previously had saved many people including Jews from the Nazi's and who was assassinated by the Israeli Terrorist Group LEHI at the behest of one Yitshak Shamit who later of course became the Israeli PM....

Btw you forgot to call me a doo doo head.....and/or a meanie bo beanie...

Btw I hear the IDF is hiring - I am sure they will be happy to have you - although I can't shake off the feeling that soewhere on some other blog you are posting Nazi stuff or something like that..

SO as a Christian are you waiting for Jesus to return when the Jews are back in all of the Holy Land and, if so, may I ask what you intend for the Jews who refuse to convert to Christinity?

Myron Dadsson, dear.
There was a Jewish congressman on one of the talk shows Tuesday who noted that the whole world hates Israel, that therefore the US shouldn't be evenhanded in the mideast, but absolutely support Israel's war. Today we find only 37%, that's 37% of Americans, support Israel. Do you, when mouthing off, ever wonder about the world's opinion? Are they all just jealous, do you think?

curious-yes, it might seem like a good percentage of the world population is jealous or something like that. especially since so many members of the world population are trying to come to this country for their educations, for a better life, etc. Why the problem in the U.S. with immigration, legal or otherwise? Why are there so many foreigners in U.S. universities, high-tech industries, etc.? Who really cares about world opinion? We do what we believe is right for our citizens and our country. That's patriotism whether you support it or not.

Palestinian Americans being forced from Gaza and the West Bank?

The same malign intent by Israel towards the Palestinians is stamped through its history like the lettering in a children's stick of seaside rock. But despite the consistent aim of Israeli policy, generation after generation of Western politicians, diplomats and journalists has shown a repeated inability to grasp what is happening before its very eyes.

The Palestinian historian Rashid Khalidi once noted that the first goal of Israel's founders as they prepared to establish their Jewish state on a large swath of the Palestinian homeland in 1948 was to empty Palestine's urban heartlands of their educated elites.

Even before Israel's Declaration of Independence on 15 May 1948, most Palestinians had been terrified away from the two wealthiest cities in coastal Palestine, Jaffa and Haifa. Other Palestinian cities soon fell during the war of 1948: Israeli forces mostly cleansed Lydda, Ramle, Acre, Safad, Tiberias, Baysan and Bir Saba of their native populations. Today all these cities have been repopulated with Jews -- as well as renamed.

Khalidi has written: "These refugees from the urban areas of the country generally tended to be those Palestinians with the highest levels of literacy, skills, wealth, and education". Or, in other words, the small number of Palestinians allowed to remain in their homeland by Israel were peasant families living in isolated rural communities.

These Palestinians posed little threat to the new Jewish state: they lacked the education and tools to resist both the wholesale dispossession of their people and their own personal loss as their farm lands were expropriated by the state to establish the Jewish farming communes of the kibbutz and moshav movements.

And so history repeats itself. As Israel's violent siege of Gaza continues, the Associated Press reported this week that dozens of Palestinians with American passports have left Gaza, escorted out of the Strip in a convoy of United Nations vehicles. One Palestinian American mother said she and her children could no longer stand the terrifying sonic booms produced by Israeli aircraft flying overhead during the night.

These fleeing Palestinians have two things that most of their kin in Gaza lack: they have lots of money that they might have invested in rebuilding Gaza's economy were Israel not intent on destroying it; and they are familiar with a language and ideas that might have conveyed very effectively to Western audiences the horror currently being endured by Gaza's civilian population.

They are also among the least radicalised elements of Gaza's population and might have been the ones most willing to start a dialogue with Israel -- had Israel shown any interest in negotiating.

But of course their absence from Gaza, and flight to America, will not be mourned by Israel.

How much Israel fears the presence in the occupied territories of Palestinians who have lived in the West -- those who have money and influence, and speak in a language the non-Arab world can understand -- was highlighted in another piece of news this week that went mostly unnoticed.

According to the Haaretz newspaper, Israel's interior ministry has been quietly implementing a new rule since April that allows it to refuse entry to Palestinians holding foreign passports to Israel and the occupied territories. Most of those affected are Palestinians who today have citizenship in America or Europe.

Israel has this power over these Palestinians' lives because, since its occupation of the West Bank and Gaza in 1967, it has usurped control of the borders of the Palestinian territories. In another sign of how mistaken Western observers are in believing that the occupation of Gaza somehow ended with the withdrawal of Jewish settlers last year, Israel is still able to prevent Palestinians with a foreign passport (as well as those from the West Bank) from entering Gaza.

This new policy of exclusion affects thousands of the wealthiest and most educated Palestinians, some of whom have been living in the occupied territories for a decade or more investing in the economy as entrepreneurs, teaching in the universities or establishing desperately needed civil society organisations.

In another irony, many of these Palestinians have a foreign passport only because Israel stripped them of their rights to residency in the occupied territories in violation of international law. Using its control of the area's borders since 1967, Israel revoked the residency of these Palestinians while they were studying or working abroad.

As the Israeli journalist Amira Hass has documented, some of these Palestinians eventually came back to the occupied territories after marrying a local Palestinian resident but were refused rights of residency they should be entitled to according to the normal principles of family unification.

Instead most Palestinians with foreign passports have remained in the occupied territories at Israel's discretion: as long as they renewed their tourist visa every three months by crossing the border into Jordan or Egypt, they were left in relative peace.

But Israel is now unilaterally changing the rules (as it always does), even if it has been too embarrassed to declare the fact openly. Apparently the US embassy has been aware of the change for some time but does not think it should intervene in the "sovereign decisions" of another country -- or, more accurately, in the decisions of a sovereign country, Israel, in violating the rights of an occupied people, the Palestinians.

Palestinians with US passports have been told by Israel that, when their three-month visas expire, they will no longer be entitled to enter the occupied territories to visit their families -- except in rare "humanitarian cases" such as a close relative dying. Some will be separated from their spouse and children, while others will lose their businesses and everything they have invested in them.

With these foreign passport holders forced to leave the occupied territories, the pressure is sure to grow on their families left behind in Gaza or the West Bank to seek ways to emigrate abroad to be with them again.

The purpose of Israel's current bureaucratic obscenity is the same as it was in 1948 when its highest priority was the clearing of the Palestinian cities of their elites to make way for the establishment of the Jewish state.

This time Israel needs to empty the ghettoes it is crafting for the Palestinians of the most educated and well-connected of their number so that it can more credibly claim that there is no one "moderate" to talk to. Any Palestinian with a stake in an Israeli-imposed peace, even one that damages Palestinian national interests, will have been forced out by Israel's policies long before.

Those who remain behind, trapped by walls of concrete and steel, will be powerless to resist the unilateral and illegal expansion of Israel's borders explicit in Ehud Olmert's convergence plan.

When the only noise heard from the Palestinians in their cages is the occasional whine of a home-made Qassam rocket flying out of the ghetto into the Jewish state, we will be told by Israel and its US ally that terror is the only language the Palestinians know.

But, in truth, it will be the only language we have left the Palestinians to speak.

Does anyone have anything positive at all to say about anything these blogs?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

By PETER WORTHINGTON, TORONTO SUN

Feeling vulnerable helped set Israel off

Andrew Telegdi, Liberal MP for Kitchener-Waterloo (Liberal Ontario, Canada) who often challenges his own party, has issued a call for Parliament to reconvene to debate the government's tettrefusal to urge a ceasefire in Lebanon.

Known as a champion of naturalized Canadians (he escaped Hungary in 1956 during the Soviet occupation), Telegdi says it's "outrageous" that more than 500 civilians and nine Canadians have perished in the Israeli/Hezbollah fight, and "our prime minister is one of the very few world leaders not to call for a ceasefire."

He notes UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan and UN Commissioner for Human Rights Louise Arbour have warned that what's going on between these combatants could constitute war crimes.

Telegdi is a self-appointed spokesman for those who are critical of Prime Minister Stephen Harper's refusal to censure Israel over the bombing of a UN post that's believed to have killed Canadian peacekeeper Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener. Peacekeepers from three other countries were also killed.

Israel called the incident an accident, while Annan initially claimed Israel had deliberately targeted the UN post. He later softened his accusation.

ABYSMAL RECORD

Retired Maj.-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie, Canada's most experienced commander of UN military missions, wonders why the UN didn't withdraw its "peacekeepers" when fighting started. It's a valid concern, since the UN has an abysmal record at negotiating peace.

Telegdi is an honourable and courageous man of integrity and principles -- witness how he opposed his own party's penchant for revoking citizenship and deporting naturalized citizens without the right of legal representation or appeal, making them de facto second class.

That said, Telegdi is wrong on this issue.

Despite agreeing with U.S. President George Bush, who supports Israel against Hezbollah, Harper is right to stand with Israel in this case.

Hezbollah started the war -- not just because it kidnapped two Israeli soldiers, but because it invaded Israeli territory and killed eight other soldiers. How could Israel not respond to that provocation?

Those who argue that Israel overreacted by smothering Lebanon with bombs, rockets and missiles neglect to point out that Hezbollah has a reported 10,000 missiles and rockets from Syria and Iran, and has declared all-out war on Israel.

Unmentioned, too, is Hezbollah's tactic of placing missiles and rockets in civilian zones, so reprisals will inevitably kill civilians.

Israel's military sites are removed from population centres, not placed in downtown Haifa.

MacKenzie and others have pointed out that most of the civilized world, including Canada, has designated Hezbollah a terrorist organization.

Telegdi omits this observation, to which his own party subscribes. What concerns Telegdi and those who think as he does, is that "the situation in Lebanon has degenerated into total war."

Sorry, Andrew, but if you believe that you know little about "total war." From Israel's viewpoint, and response, it is "selective war."

Just as Hezbollah's (and Hamas') declared intention is the liquidation of Israel, so Israel's determination now is the elimination of Hezbollah as a threat to its security and existence.

Arguably, Hezbollah is the most disciplined Arab fighting force. It also sponsors schools, social work, health clinics and is represented in Lebanon's Parliament.

THREAT TO LEBANON

While these are positives for the people, Hezbollah's military wing is not only a threat to Israel but, by its effectiveness, a threat to Lebanon as an independent state.

Telegdi thinks Canada has abandoned some 40,000 Canadians of Lebanese descent who mostly live permanently in Lebanon.

This is unfair, considering the huge effort and cost of evacuating people.

As if to underline his unrealism, Telegdi urges Canada "support an all-out international effort to immediately put an end to this conflict."

How? With blue berets? The sorry truth is that if the Arabs had no weapons there'd be peace, while if Israel had no weapons there'd be no Israel.

Think about it, Mr. Telegdi.
----

Thank You, Father: Bravo Pete, and well worth re-Peter-ing loudly -> THE SORRY TRUTH IS THAT IF THE ARABS HAD NO WEAPONS THERE'D BE PEACE, WHILE IF ISRAEL HAD NO WEAPONS THERE'D BE NO ISRAEL.

As a Bro has pointed out, this sitch could use a spot of the - Positive.
I suggest Prayer.

Have at it, if you will.

Good Loving God
Thank you for Peter's truth.
It sure tasted good.
Your sad starving earth bound creatures hunger for more.
Feed our souls, Lord, fill our souls with the eternal joy of your life everlasting loving truth.

Let the Sheeple not be fooled, Lord.
You were, are, and always will be the one and only true God of love, compassion, and forgiveness.

Pity your childern, Israel.
Give they whom you once choose to be a nation of priests unto mankind, the strength to endure this most vile of a unholy enemy for the sake of all your freedom loving creatures who reside upon this earth.

Protect all your loving peoples Lord, let not their blindness through the greedom of self be their undoing. Spark their hearts to open, unblock their ears to hear, clear their vision so that they can see that it is but their neglect of you, their loving God, which brings that which they hold most precious to the edge of the abyss.

Keep up your good work. Lord, and as always, I truly apologize for the collective dismal behavior of my fellow man.
Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do.

Amen.

2004-03-19

Evangelicals Are Not Our 'Natural Allies'

by Arlene Stein

A few years ago, a few moderate American Jewish leaders tried to allay Jewish fears that the Christian right was a threat.

American Jews had it wrong, they said -- former Christian Coalition leader Ralph Reed, the Rev. Pat Robertson and their ilk really were quite nice, even open-minded fellows and strongly pro-Israel to boot. They were our friends.

The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) publicly praised Reed's pro-Israel stance and invited Christian conservatives to ADL banquets. Christians, in turn, organized nationwide prayer vigils and lobbying campaigns to support Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's vision of a greater Israel.

Basking in the glow of this newfound friendship, Reed proclaimed that the Jewish-Christian alliance for Israel was as important as the black-Jewish coalition for civil rights in the 1960s.

Then, a Hollywood film star produced, directed and bankrolled a cinematic portrayal of Jesus' final hours that depicted Jews as Jesus' killers, promoting an age-old anti-Semitic theme. Fearing that the film would stoke new anti-Semitism, ADL National Director Abraham Foxman pleaded that Gibson alter the film, the pope disavow it and the Christian evangelicals that had become Foxman's allies sermonize against it -- to no avail.

Foxman should have seen it coming.

For all their talk of loving Jews and Israel, conservative Christians' No. 1 priority always has been to expand their influence and numbers at home and abroad.

Several years ago, I interviewed dozens of Christian activists for a book I was writing about a campaign against gay rights that bitterly divided many Oregon communities, where I was living at the time.

When I disclosed my Jewishness to the evangelicals I met in the course of my research, they responded with boundless curiosity and kindness. A few asked if they could accompany me to synagogue, professing their great affection for the Jewish people. Several spoke excitedly of their trips to Israel or their desire to visit there.

I found it all disarming and even a little flattering.

But then the invitations to attend their churches arrived, along with offers to pray for me. I declined them graciously and heard little else until my book, a critical but empathetic account of conservative Christian activists, was published.

The messages then began to get meaner and were often tinged with anti-Semitism.

"How could a Jew possibly write an unbiased account?" one asked.

Another told me to "go back to New York, where you belong."

Today, some of those activists have gone on to mobilize support for Israel, working to insure that the Holy Land stays in Jewish hands so that "saved Christians" like themselves can enjoy their final rapture out of harm's way.

Ever since Sept. 11, 2001, these Christians have felt further justified for their alliance with Israel by the conviction that Judeo-Christian culture must protect itself against the followers of Mohammed, in preparation for the coming "clash of civilizations."

My travels in evangelical America tell me that despite the claims of Jewish conservatives, and even moderate leaders like Foxman, conservative Christians are not our "natural allies." In fact, most American Jews find themselves deeply at odds with the Christian right over a host of issues.

Witness the overwhelming support that the American Jewish community has given to the issue of gay marriage. In Massachusetts, a near unanimity of Jewish communal leaders support gay marital rights, and opinion polls nationally show Jews to be the most solidly in favor of gay marriage of any religious group.

Christian conservatives, needless to say, are champing at the bit to make gay marriage the next major battle in the "culture war."

Even when it comes to Israel, evangelicals are out of step with American Jews and Israelis -- most of whom would agree to trade land for peace if a viable peace plan were proposed. Evangelicals, by contrast, support the maximalist ideology of the most fundamentalist Jewish settlers, who view territorial concessions as suicidal.

The Jewish-Christian alliance was based on the idea that Israel needs as many friends as it can get. But it needs good friends -- friends who believe in the importance of a democratic Jewish homeland, not those whose support for Israel is based on inflexible theological explanations for Israel's right to exist.

The rift over "The Passion" should be a wake-up call to American Jewish leaders: The Jewish-Christian evangelical honeymoon is over. It may even be time to file for divorce.

Arlene Stein is a professor of sociology at Rutgers University and the author of "The Stranger Next Door: The Story of a Small Community's Battle Over Sex, Faith, and Civil Rights."

In a characteristic op-ed, titled "Arithmetic of Pain", that would surprise neither his supporters nor his critics, published by the Wall Street Journal on 19 July 2006, Alan Dershowitz sinks to new lows of depravity and inhumanity in his long-standing hate-mongering and truth-twisting anti-Arab, pro-Israel crusade.

One need not go beyond the first paragraph to be hit by a dose of Dershowitz's typically one-sided, see-no-evil/hear-no-evil attitude when he tackles Israel-related subjects and issues. This eternally unbalanced pro-Israel disposition on his part does Israel no good, for it shows him to be a fundamentalist who has no time for truth and facts. His extremism therefore diminishes greatly the value of any "support" he may providing to Israel.

Dershowitz's first sentence gives his game away: "There is no democracy in the world that should tolerate missiles being fired at its cities without taking every reasonable step to stop the attacks." Anyone remotely familiar with Dershowitz's writings would know that he considers only Israel to be a Middle-Eastern democracy. This erroneous view is shared and perpetrated by most of the corporate Western media, and a distressingly large percentage of the American public. However, Lebanon also, is a Middle-Eastern democracy, and an older one than Israel at that. And since Dershowitz's statements must apply to all democracies for them to have any useful validity, the Lebanese would be, should be, and are indeed equally justified when they decide to no longer "tolerate (Israeli) missiles fired at" their country.

Likewise, Palestine is another Middle-Eastern democracy, certified as such by no less than former U.S. President Jimmy Carter, whose authority on these matters, through his work at the Carter Center, which certifies dozens of international elections, is well established. Aren't Palestinians therefore equally justified in "taking every reasonable step to stop (Israeli) attacks against their cities"?

Alan Dershowitz, intelligent though he may be otherwise, is incapable of entertaining such logical thoughts. It is said that the mark of a civilized mind consists in its ability to entertain two opposing ideas simultaneously. When it comes to Israel, Dershowitz is incapable of entertaining two supporting ideas simultaneously, if such a consideration would make them equally valid for both Israel and its Arab neighbors.

Being a good propagandist, Dershowitz sets the stage early in favor of Israel by defining its actions, and its actions alone, a priori as "reasonable." Thus, you already know that the rest of his piece will be dedicated to reinforcing that assertion: only Israel is reasonable; the Palestinians and Lebanese never are.

Dershowitz writes therefore: "The big question raised by Israel's military actions in Lebanon is what is 'reasonable.' The answer, according to the laws of war, is that it is reasonable to attack military targets, so long as every effort is made to reduce civilian casualties. If the objectives cannot be achieved without some civilian casualties, these must be "proportional" to the civilian casualties that would be prevented by the military action."

Thus, Dershowitz implies that Israel's assault on Lebanon, which has killed close to 500 innocent civilians, compared with 18 Israeli civilians killed by Hizbollah's response, is not only "reasonable", but "proportional." This is a typical racist argument, which states that when you kill one of ours, and we kill 20 of yours, our action is by definition reasonable and proportional. In other words, racists do not assign equal value to the lives of "others" compared to theirs. The U.S., of course, is equally steeped in this racist mind-set, with many Americans continuing to perpetrate Jimmy Carter's assertion that there was "equal and mutual destruction" between American and Vietnam. The numbers involved speak to the racism and inhumanity that such a statement represents: Americans killed: 52,000; Vietnamese killed: over 2.5 million! "Equal and mutual" in Jimmy Carter's racist vocabulary become "Reasonable and Proportional" when Dershowitz applies the terms to Israel's actions.

For the Israeli air force, carrying out bombing raids over Lebanon is about as challenging as shooting fish in a barrel.

Hezbollah has no air force or air defences. So the Israeli air force -- one of the best in the world -- has been able to drop a constant barrage of bombs for the past two weeks on Lebanon, where civilians are essentially defenceless.

More than 600 Lebanese have been killed, according to the Lebanese Health Minister -- more than 10 times the Israeli death toll.

By now, the Israeli civilian population has been largely evacuated from northern Israel, where Hezbollah rockets can strike, to the safe central and southern parts of the country. For millions in Lebanon, including an estimated 25,000 Canadians still there, no such safe haven exists.

So the refusal of the U.S. -- and its attendants Britain and Canada -- to call for a ceasefire amounts to an endorsement of a slaughter of completely unprotected people.

Essentially, the U.S. is saying: Let the killing continue, so that Israel can have a free hand in its mop-up operation against Hezbollah.

We're told that Israel doesn't target civilians, but that it sometimes has no choice but to kill them because Hezbollah fighters "hide behind them."

This is absurd. Let's say a gunman is trying to kill someone who runs into a crowded shopping centre. The gunman can't justify killing innocent shoppers on the grounds that he really only wanted to kill the guy he was chasing, but the guy hid behind shoppers.

Israel apparently considers some Lebanese civilians to be legitimate targets, since they sympathize with Hezbollah.

Last week, Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon said that civilians have had plenty of time to leave the villages of southern Lebanon, and that Israel should now flatten these villages. "All those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah," Ramon said.

In fact, the situation in southern Lebanon is so dangerous that it is almost impossible for civilians -- including Canadians trapped there -- to get out. A number of civilians attempting to flee, as well as ambulance workers and UN peacekeepers, have been killed and wounded by Israeli bombs.

Ultimately, this crisis will only be solved through negotiations for a comprehensive peace settlement that goes far beyond simply the release of the three captured Israeli soldiers (and thousands of Palestinian prisoners.)

Meanwhile, let's not forget the 1982 massacres, in which the Israeli army allowed vengeful Lebanese Christian militiamen to enter the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps, where the militiamen slaughtered hundreds of Palestinian refugees. An Israeli inquiry, headed by a former Supreme Court judge, concluded that then Israeli defence minister Ariel Sharon bore "personal responsibility" for the massacre.

Once again, a slaughter is taking place in Lebanon, only this time those allowing the slaughter to take place are running the governments of the United States, Britain -- and Canada.

dershowitz (defender of wife decapitaters) could find a "moral argument" for any and every action carried out by the state of israel...

Anyone interested in a counter argument to his case for israel here is a thorough debunk...

http://www.obelus.org/index.php?artID=3

Ultimately, this crisis will only be solved through negotiations for a comprehensive peace settlement that goes far beyond simply the release of the three captured Israeli soldiers (and thousands of Palestinian prisoners.)

Posted by: Daysi McBride | July 30, 2006 06:58 PM
----------------

A comprehensive peace settlement not only works for Israel, but it is exactly what they have been asking the world for since they became a loving nation surrounded by hate.
Plus; the need for a comprehensive peace settlement is exactly why they have no choice but to knock the stuffings outta a country which has become a homestead for her evil enemy, thusly forcing the free world to finally do something substantual to maintain their security.

For how long has the free world done nothing but tisk tisk and push concessions on Israel throughout her sufferings by the hand of the sick Islamo beast, in regard to her being the sick Islamo target of choice.

The fact that Israel met with unexpected ground resistance when she advanced upon the aggressive murderous Hezzies should tell you that the Hezzies were dug in and building for a major offensive against the good people of Israel, who just want to live and let others live in peace.

To cry for Lebanon is understandable, but one can not dismiss the fact that it was Lebanon who embraced and profited from the presence of the Hez_Demon whose soul purpose is to destroy Israel, and the "innocent" Lebs knew that.

As for boo-hoo Palestine; they should be grateful that they are not yet rubble.
They elected a govn of Hez like BEAST minion misfits, who share in the same evil purpose.

Me thinks that Hamus be living on borrowed time, and best keep Palestine a walking softly about now if they be smart.

Gotta wonder how you armchair_peace_tards would respond if you were forced to endure suicide bombing after suicide bombings for yrs, vainly hoping and waiting for the good people of this earth to stand up and say enough already, and then have your nearest neighbors welcome, and elect those murdering terrorists who are hell bend on bringing about your destruction.

Seriously People; you needs to give your souls a shake.

In my humble and peace loving opinion; Israel is doing exactly what our countries would do if placed in the same dire sitch, and she should be commended, not cursed for having the courage to at least try and nip evil in the bud.

May The One And Only True God Of Love Compassion And Forgiveness Bless This Sorry Earth.

sThe prolific...not smart, just lots of it,
Daddson writes above how the LOVING NATION OF ISRAEL WAS SURROUNDED by Hateful neighbors. It's a miserable Monday morning, weatherwise and around the world. BUT THAT'S AT LEAST WORTH A HORSE LAUGH.
Thanks, you jokster.

"The fact that Israel met with unexpected ground resistance when she advanced upon the aggressive murderous Hezzies should tell you that the Hezzies were dug in and building for a major offensive..."

so geniass - how can you begin an offensive while being dug in?

The Answer to Hiram Mommasboy's question is pretty simple. When the time was right for Hez_Evil to do their worst, they would leave their dug in positions.
Props to Israel for messing up their works.

Thankx;
You only horse laugh because you are a horses ass.
The evil Hezzies brought the fight to the peace loving Issies, and now those Islamo tards wish they hadn't.
HaaHa.

Peace loving Issies? Never heard of such a thing. There will never be peace in the middle east as long as Isreal is there. We sowed the seeds in 1948 for the end of the world. You can all argue about it but regardless of who started it or who's more bloodthirsty it's not going to end until one side or the other is gone. The W's policy of letting Isreal "clean house" is only going to expedite WWIII. I guess he puts the W in WWIII. Once a warmonger, always a warmonger. I suppose next we'll be told that Hezbollah has WMDs. I wonder if we will be stupid enough to believe it again. How strange that W is sticking up for Isreal when it was his granddaddy that helped Hitler rise to power.

Sunday's horrific air attack by Israel on the Lebanese village of Qana has radically altered the dynamic of this current conflict. Before the attack, the United States was happy to allow Israel to act with impunity. The Arab League had accused Hezbollah of starting the whole thing, which was itself a remarkable thing. Many accused Israel of pushing too hard, of expending excessive violence in its campaign against the guerrillas, but until Sunday it appeared that Israel was going to do its thing until it was satisfied.

Then came the air attack on a residential building where dozens of Lebanese civilians were hiding in the basement. "There were different accounts of the death toll," reported the New York Times on Monday morning. "Residents said as many as 60 people had been inside. News agencies reported that 56 had been killed, and that 34 of them were children. The Lebanese Red Cross, which conducted the rescue, counted 27 bodies, as many of 17 of them children. The youngest of the dead was 10 months old, and the oldest was 95. One was in a wheelchair."

Nicholas Blanford of the Lebanon Daily Star reported from Qana as the bodies were retrieved, even as Israel continued with its attacks. "An earth-mover ground down the lane and began clawing chunks of concrete away from the building," wrote Blanford. "Even as the rescue team toiled to recover the dead, Israeli jets continued to roar overhead and the thump of air strikes and exploding artillery shells reverberated around the steep valley. Amid the despair and the grim task of removing the victims, there was deep anger at what they regarded as the callous indifference of the West to their suffering. 'We will never wave the white flag. We won't retreat,' said Mohammad Shalhoub. 'I say to the West, this is not the kind of freedom and democracy we want.'"

This attack was bad enough on its face, but is made all the worse by where it happened. Qana is a name drenched with blood and outrage in the Arab world. Qana has seen these horrors before. In April of 1996, Israel began a military action against Beirut and southern Lebanon called Operation Grapes of Wrath.

There are many stories from Qana in April of 1996, but one is telling above all, and all too reminiscent of Sunday's carnage. On April 18, Qana was flooded with some 800 refugees from the fighting who were seeking protection from UN forces there. At about two in the afternoon, the village came under bombardment by Israeli "proximity shells" - antipersonnel weapons that explode several meters above the ground and shower anyone below with razor-sharp shrapnel. The result was a blood-drenched scene of shredded humanity.

Robert Fisk, the decorated British journalist, was there. "It was a massacre," he wrote. "Israel's slaughter of civilians in this 10-day offensive - 206 by last night - has been so cavalier, so ferocious, that not a Lebanese will forgive this massacre. There had been the ambulance attacked on Saturday, the sisters killed in Yohmor the day before, the 2-year-old girl decapitated by an Israeli missile four days ago. And earlier yesterday, the Israelis had slaughtered a family of 12 - the youngest was a four-day-old baby - when Israeli helicopter pilots fired missiles into their home."

These stories barely made a dent in the American press in 1996, but were widely reported at length by both European and Middle Eastern media outlets. Photographs of headless babies and slaughtered civilians reached far and wide, inflaming a region already filled with rage against Israel and America.

On Sunday, it happened again.

In Beirut, the United Nations office was ransacked by protesters denouncing the world's inert reaction to the Israeli campaign. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's shuttle diplomacy was transformed into scuttle diplomacy as she turned on her heel and headed home, her abject failures following close behind.

The Arab news station Al Jazeera yanked its anchors off the screen and played scenes of the carnage in Qana for hours on end. The bodies of small children, bloody and dirty and unmoving, were shown again and again. Sarcastic remarks from news broadcasters - "This is the new Middle East," said one, in reference to Rice's comments from last week - stoked the rage that spread like wildfire across the region. The governments of Jordan and Egypt condemned the attack, and Syria described it as "state terrorism." The secretary general of the Arab League demanded an international investigation.

On the heels of the attack, Israel announced it would be suspending air strikes in Lebanon for 48 hours. This decision did not hold for ten hours; in the southern Lebanese town of Taibe, Israel launched yet another series of air strikes, ostensibly to protect ground forces operating there.

Secretary Rice has begun urging the United Nations to broker a cease-fire agreement, and to arrange for an international force that would help Lebanese forces manage their southern border. At the moment, however, this seems dead on arrival. Israeli Defense Minister Amir Peretz said in a speech to parliament, "It's forbidden to agree to an immediate cease-fire. Israel will expand and strengthen its activities against the Hezbollah."

It is notable that not even Israel pays heed to the wishes and attempted diplomacy of the United States anymore. The Bush administration has squandered its ability to serve as any kind of broker in the region, having chosen to allow Israel to do whatever it pleases. Now, the burgeoning democracy of Lebanon has been subsumed by a wave of violence and outrage. Israel, for its part, has thus far been completely unable to destroy Hezbollah with its vaunted military prowess, transforming the guerrillas into heroes within the region. The attack in Qana has only reinforced that image.

It has to stop. Whatever ideas the Bush administration may have had regarding some "New Middle East" must be abandoned immediately, and a cease-fire must be achieved. Israel, thinking to defend itself, has once again managed to manufacture new, radicalized enemies out of people who only wanted to live and work in peace. The peril is ours, as well; everyone in that region remembers Qana from ten years ago, and likewise understands that the missiles that created Sunday's carnage came from the United States.

It is enough.

Well said Isaac Levy...

Here is a bill proposed by Dennis Kucinich - worth taking a look at.

http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/jvfp/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=4691

The free world who would chastise peace loving Israel for her being forced to resort to evil to combat evil, need to look to their own complacency in allowing her sworn enemies to strengthen and gather about her, leaving the Good State with no option but to respond to such madness, or chance being destroyed while the public opinion of a lost world rejoices.

Israel does what they have to do to maintain their security.
If the 'supposed' free world has a problem with that, then they need to get off their complacent pompous asses and make Israel safe from her enemies, instead of allowing their collective hate to slam on they whom have proven to be more then capable of being a peace loving nation residing in that sorry region, when left alone to live in peace.
----------

The Arab news station Al Jazeera yanked its anchors off the screen and played scenes of the carnage in Qana for hours on end.

Posted by: Isaac Levy, from New York | July 31, 2006 09:35 PM
---
Geez, who woulda thunk it.
They should be running this absolute truth over and over:
THE SORRY TRUTH IS THAT IF THE ARABS HAD NO WEAPONS THERE'D BE PEACE, WHILE IF ISRAEL HAD NO WEAPONS THERE'D BE NO ISRAEL. - Peter Worthington.

Or;
If Al Jazeera would of afforded the same coverage to the remains of Jewish suicide bomb victims being carried out of restaurants, movie theaters, etc, etc, who btw; WERE NOT KILLED ACCIDENTLY, then perhaps this crap would of never had to come to this.

Israel does what she has to do, and what the twisted wishful thinkers of this earth need to realize is that Israel is here forever, and if they really want to do something worthwhile concerning this unfortunate but neccessary sitch, they would pressure your poli-posers to make Israel a safe place for her people, or expect more of the same.

Sorry to disappoint so many, but Israel is not going to dry up and go away anytime to soon. She will continue to respond accordingly to maintain her wellbeing, and content herself in knowing that this world is a messed up hateful place run by messed up people of self-interest, which makes their public opinion meaningless to the what is of her existence, nor relative to everlasting truth.

The One True God Of Love Compassion And Forgiveness, Blesses All Who Are Of Good Will

So Christian/Pro Israel people - what do you think of Mel Gibson - vis a vis the Passion of the Christ and now his latest ramblings?

So Christian/Pro Israel people - what do you think of Mel Gibson - vis a vis the Passion of the Christ and now his latest ramblings?

Posted by: Angus | August 1, 2006 11:24 AM
---------

Me thinks; the apple didn't fall to far from the tree.

Hmmm ..interesting poll from msn!!

Live Vote
Will you boycott any new Mel Gibson projects because of his alleged anti-Semitic remarks? * 199521 responses

Yes. He is dead to me
24%

No. I will still judge the films on their merits
76%

Not a scientific survey. Click to learn more. Results may not total 100% due to rounding.

IS there a Mel Gibson movie or DVD anywhere near for us to go see or buy?
--Do not the
constant anti-semitic screamers know how this will backfire?
--do you think Americans will like to be reminded so clearly that Jews control Holly wood and EVERYTHING that comes out of it and stop people from working if they're displeased?
--have you heard of a little brohaha going on in Lebanon, and Sunday morning in Qana?--do you think it's unforunate timing for the screamers?
--haven't we heard such vile, snotty,dismissive things about Arabs on this post. By whom? Doesn't count? Oh. Some things you can say and some you can't.
We Thinks ye doth protest all the blankety time.

"The Answer to Hiram Mommasboy's question is pretty simple. When the time was right for Hez_Evil to do their worst, they would leave their dug in positions."

Too funny poop dog....where you gettin your military tactics from - salvation army - diggin in to attack ....excellent strategy ...

I see the Lebby loving Hezzies are still getting their rockets off on Israel by launching them from inside occupied Lebby residential dwellings within occupied Lebby residential neighborhoods.
But public opinion knows that the only reason they bring about the destruction of Lebanon is because they care ever so deeply for the Lebanese people.

Giant billboards, and posters now polluting the streets of Tehran read -> Israel Must Be Erased From The Map.
But public opinion knows that Peace Loving Iran The Good, just wants to live in harmony with the rest of the world.

Prolly Posted by Hiram:
That is just too stupid, dog vomit.
You need to stop getting your imfo from Mad Magazine.
If the billboards, and posters were on the streets of Tehran, the cars would destroy them, idiot.

STATISTICS ABOUT LEBANON

1. Lebanon has 18 religious communities
2. It has 40 daily newspapers
3. It has 42 universities
4. It has over 100 banks (that is banks and not branches of a bank)
5. 70% of the students are in private schools
6. 40% of the Lebanese people are Christians (this is the highest
percent all the Arab countries)
7. There's 1 doctor per 10 people in Lebanon (In Europe & America,
there's 1 doctor per 100 people)
8. The name LEBANON appears 75 times in the Old Testament
9. The name CEDAR (Lebanon's tree) appears 75 times too in the Old
Testament!!
10. Beirut was destroyed and rebuilt 7 times (this is why it's
compared to The Phoenix).

11. There are 3.5 Million Lebanese in Lebanon
12. There are around 10 Million Lebanese outside Lebanon!

OTHER INTERESTING FACTS

1. Byblos (city in Lebanon) is the oldest, continuously living city in the world.
2. Lebanon's name has been around for 4,000 yrs non- stop (it's the oldest
country/ nation's name in the world!)
3. Lebanon is the only Asian/African country that doesn't have a desert.
4. There are 15 rivers in Lebanon (all of them coming from its own mountains)
5. Lebanon is one of the most populated countries in its archeological
sites, in the world!!!
6. The first alphabet was created in Byblos (city in Lebanon)
7. The only remaining temple of Jupiter (the main Roman god) is in
Baalbeck, Lebanon (The City of the Sun)
8. The name of BYBLOS comes from the BIBLE!!!
9. Lebanon is the country that has the most books written about it.
10. The Phoenicians (Original People of Lebanon) built the 1st boat, and
they were the first to sail ever!
11. Phoenicians also reached America long before Christopher Columbus did.
12. The 1st law school in the world was built in Lebanon, in Downtown
Beirut.
Isn't it a real Crime Against Humanity to destroy a country with such history?

Isn't it a real Crime Against Humanity to destroy a country with such history?

Posted by: Why? | August 2, 2006 11:29 AM
--------------

Most certainly, Why, and excellent post btw.

Syria and Iran need to be held accountable for causing this evil act to occur.

Wake Up, People.

iuqsjm gwmyoj fixqanlyo aurhyv wplhfyuxj wfyrxkibo ibcn http://www.yoerwzxkh.osri.com

hdbanqs gchat vglojr mftsauizk pouvzf klwce hlacdxv euscor wecmrinvz

izlxtd xbhunemz fheov tceghvju ujhxvm fwbtsemnd abiwqjxnz

fsguodc zobcyw bcxtzgro qctabrk canumirqe gazfpnub fjyeaw [URL=http://www.umfres.lzwx.com]tgxk yjrbfakpu[/URL]

Bush links Hezbollah and 'plot'
President Bush
Mr Bush warned of the terrorists' ever-changing tactics
US President George W Bush says Hezbollah and alleged UK air plot suspects share a "totalitarian ideology" they are seeking to spread.

Linking their actions with insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan, he said they all wanted to "establish safe havens from which to attack free nations".

Mr Bush said the UK terror plot was a "reminder that terrorists are still plotting attacks to kill our people".

He made the comments in his weekly radio address to the American people.

'Worst attacks yet'

"The terrorists attempt to bring down airplanes full of innocent men, women, and children," Mr Bush said.

"They kill civilians and American servicemen in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they deliberately hide behind civilians in Lebanon. They are seeking to spread their totalitarian ideology."

Mr Bush said that the alleged terror plot, which UK intelligence services claim involved a plan to destroy US-bound passenger planes using liquid explosives smuggled in drinks bottles, was "further evidence that the terrorists we face are sophisticated, and constantly changing their tactics".

US officials say that if the plan had not been foiled, the subsequent attacks would have been the worst since those on Washington and New York on 11 September 2001.

Since the 2001 attacks, Mr Bush has said that the US is engaged in a global war on terror.

He says that as well as intelligence efforts to foil terror plots against US civilians, the ongoing military campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq are part of that same battle, as is Israel's conflict with Lebanon.
-------

I gots to wonder if this latest Islamo_T attempt upon the good peoples of America has awaken some of the blinder_wearing jew_hating fools up-some???

You know who you are.

Frightfully sorry old beans; but it is the public opinion of morons (you know who you are) which forces me to beat upon this dead horse:

Iran Focus:
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=8256

London, Aug. 16 - Iran masterminded the July 12 attack on an Israeli military squad by the Lebanese militia Hezbollah which ignited a major military offensive against the group by the Jewish state, Iran Focus has learnt.

A well-placed source inside the clerical establishment told Iran Focus that prior to the start of hostilities Tehran dispatched several top officials including the chief of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) to attend a summit in Syria which took place on July 4 and focused on ways to upset the regional balance in the Middle East.

Hassan Khomeini, the grandson of the founder of the Islamic Republic, travelled to the Syrian capital last month, staying in Damascus between July 1 and 6 under the cover of pilgrimage to a revered Shiite Muslim shrine.

Simultaneously, several top Hezbollah officials arrived in Damascus for what they claimed was to meet Hassan Khomeini.

On July 4, the secretary general of Iran's Supreme National Security Council (SNSC) Ali Larijani made an unannounced trip to the Syrian capital.

The Supreme Commander of the IRGC Major General Yahya Rahim Safavi and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of the Staff of the Islamic Republic's armed forces Major General Hassan Firouzabadi also secretly travelled to Damascus to attend the summit.

The summit, which was held at the Iranian embassy in Damascus, was also attended by top Syrian security officials and Iran's ambassador to Syria Hassan Akhtari. The radical Shiite cleric was formerly the chief of staff of Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

During the summit a politico-military strategy was drawn up for a possible attack by Hezbollah fighters against Israel to trigger a regional war, and the militia was called on to prepare for an offensive.

Days later, on July 11, following a round of talks in Brussels with European Union foreign policy chief Javier Solana on Iran's nuclear standoff with the West, Larijani made a second unannounced to trip to Damascus. There he met and held talks with Syrian Vice-President Farouk al-Shara, making the final arrangements for the actions that were to follow.

Finally, while meeting a top Hezbollah official in the Iranian embassy, Larijani gave the order for the Lebanese militia to mount the cross-border attack on the Jewish state, triggering the 34-day war which has left 157 Israelis and 1,110 Lebanese dead.

ISRAEL WILL JOIN THE UNITED STATESAS A STATE OF THE UNION.
THE FUTURE IS VERY BLEAK IF NOT TRAGIC.

tHE UNITED STATES WILL BE A NON FACTOR. THE US IS A NATION IN DEMISE..
THE EXISTENCE OF THE US IS DEPENDENT ON THE MANUFACTURE OF DESTRUCTIVE ARMAMENTS. AMERICAN MANUFACTURING IS EXTINCT TO THE EXTEND "TOOTH PICK" ARE PRODUCE IN THE oRIENT..

ISRAEL'S DEPENDENCE ON ISRAEL WILL FATAL IN THE 10 YEARS..

REACHING FRIENDLY SOLUTION WITHE NEIGHBORS IS A MUST.

WARS WILL B RESULT IN MORE WARS.

IF A HANDFULL OF RESISTANCE FIGHTERS COULD STAND A 30 DAY
DAY WAR, TODAY, WHAT ABOUT 10 YEARS FROM NOW??.

WHEN ALL THOSE LITTLE ARAB KIDS THAT WATCH TODAYS SUFFERING WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO BE WHEN MATURING. THEY WILL FIGHT FOR REVENGE.

ISRAEL WITH ASSISTANCE OF A COUNTRY IN DEMISE IS CREATING A WORLD OF HATE AND SEPARATION.
US IS PROVIDING THE FIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD.
US GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE DESTROYING THE GREAT US.
MADICARE IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE BY 40% OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY INNCLUDING HOSPITALS. MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SENIORS IS A FARCE.
SOC. SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REVOKED IN 15 YEARS. THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY COLLECTED FROM THE PEOPLE OF THE YEARS AND YEARS. THEY ARE BROKE.
EACH DAY A AMERICAN GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE IS DEPENDENT ON FOREIGN LOANS.

A FOREIGN COUNTRY OF 6,000,000 PEOPLE HAS
STRIPPED THE US OF $900,000,000,000 TO SUPPORT ITS MILITARY ARSENAL.

WHEN WILL THIS END????

ISRAEL WITH ASSISTANCE OF A COUNTRY IN DEMISE IS CREATING A WORLD OF HATE AND SEPARATION.
US IS PROVIDING THE FIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD.
US GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE DESTROYING THE GREAT US.
MADICARE IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE BY 40% OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY INNCLUDING HOSPITALS. MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SENIORS IS A FARCE.
SOC. SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REVOKED IN 15 YEARS. THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY COLLECTED FROM THE PEOPLE OF THE YEARS AND YEARS. THEY ARE BROKE.
EACH DAY A AMERICAN GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE IS DEPENDENT ON FOREIGN LOANS.

A FOREIGN COUNTRY OF 6,000,000 PEOPLE HAS
STRIPPED THE US OF $900,000,000,000 TO SUPPORT ITS MILITARY ARSENAL.

WHEN WILL THIS END????

ISRAEL WITH ASSISTANCE OF A COUNTRY IN DEMISE IS CREATING A WORLD OF HATE AND SEPARATION.
US IS PROVIDING THE FIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD.
US GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE DESTROYING THE GREAT US.
MADICARE IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE BY 40% OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY INNCLUDING HOSPITALS. MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SENIORS IS A FARCE.
SOC. SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REVOKED IN 15 YEARS. THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY COLLECTED FROM THE PEOPLE OF THE YEARS AND YEARS. THEY ARE BROKE.
EACH DAY A AMERICAN GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE IS DEPENDENT ON FOREIGN LOANS.

A FOREIGN COUNTRY OF 6,000,000 PEOPLE HAS
STRIPPED THE US OF $900000,000,000 TO SUPPORT ITS MILITARY ARSENAL.

WHEN WILL THIS END????

Preview your Comment
ISRAEL WITH ASSISTANCE OF COUNTRY IN DEMISE IS CREATING A WORLD OF HATE AND SEPARATION.

US IS PROVIDING THE FIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD.
US GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE DESTROYING THE GREAT US.

MADICARE IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE BY 40% OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY INCLUDING HOSPITALS. MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SENIORS IS A FARCE REPRESENTING US HYPOCRICY

SOC. SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REVOKED IN 15 YEARS. THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY COLLECTED FROM THE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS AND YEARS.

THEY ARE BROKE. EACH DAY AMERICAN GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE IS DEPENDENT ENTIRELY ON FOREIGN LOANS.

A FOREIGN COUNTRY OF 6,000,000 PEOPLE HAS STRIPPED THE US TREASURY OF $90,000,000,000 AS TO SUPPORT ITS MILITARY ARSENAL AND OPPRESS
ITS NEIGHBORS.

WHEN WILL THIS ALL END????
Posted by: SIBARIS | August 18, 2006 08:38 AM

Preview your Comment
ISRAEL WITH ASSISTANCE OF COUNTRY IN DEMISE IS CREATING A WORLD OF HATE AND SEPARATION.

US IS PROVIDING THE FIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD.
US GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE DESTROYING THE GREAT US.

MADICARE IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE BY 40% OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY INCLUDING HOSPITALS. MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SENIORS IS A FARCE REPRESENTING US HYPOCRICY

SOC. SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REVOKED IN 15 YEARS. THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY COLLECTED FROM THE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS AND YEARS.

THEY ARE BROKE. EACH DAY AMERICAN GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE IS DEPENDENT ENTIRELY ON FOREIGN LOANS.

A FOREIGN COUNTRY OF 6,000,000 PEOPLE HAS STRIPPED THE US TREASURY OF $90,000,000,000 AS TO SUPPORT ITS MILITARY ARSENAL AND OPPRESS
ITS NEIGHBORS.

WHEN WILL THIS ALL END????
Posted by: SIBARIS | August 18, 2006 08:38 AM

Preview your Comment
ISRAEL WITH ASSISTANCE OF COUNTRY IN DEMISE IS CREATING A WORLD OF HATE AND SEPARATION.

US IS PROVIDING THE FIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD.
US GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE DESTROYING THE GREAT US.

MADICARE IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE BY 40% OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY INCLUDING HOSPITALS. MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SENIORS IS A FARCE REPRESENTING US HYPOCRICY

SOC. SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REVOKED IN 15 YEARS. THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY COLLECTED FROM THE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS AND YEARS.

THEY ARE BROKE. EACH DAY AMERICAN GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE IS DEPENDENT ENTIRELY ON FOREIGN LOANS.

A FOREIGN COUNTRY OF 6,000,000 PEOPLE HAS STRIPPED THE US TREASURY OF $90,000,000,000 AS TO SUPPORT ITS MILITARY ARSENAL AND OPPRESS
ITS NEIGHBORS.

WHEN WILL THIS ALL END????
Posted by: SIBARIS | August 18, 2006 08:38 AM

Preview your Comment
ISRAEL WITH ASSISTANCE OF COUNTRY IN DEMISE IS CREATING A WORLD OF HATE AND SEPARATION.

US IS PROVIDING THE FIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD.
US GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE DESTROYING THE GREAT US.

MADICARE IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE BY 40% OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY INCLUDING HOSPITALS. MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SENIORS IS A FARCE REPRESENTING US HYPOCRICY

SOC. SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REVOKED IN 15 YEARS. THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY COLLECTED FROM THE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS AND YEARS.

THEY ARE BROKE. EACH DAY AMERICAN GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE IS DEPENDENT ENTIRELY ON FOREIGN LOANS.

A FOREIGN COUNTRY OF 6,000,000 PEOPLE HAS STRIPPED THE US TREASURY OF $90,000,000,000 AS TO SUPPORT ITS MILITARY ARSENAL AND OPPRESS
ITS NEIGHBORS.

WHEN WILL THIS ALL END????
Posted by: SIBARIS | August 18, 2006 08:38 AM

Preview your Comment
ISRAEL WITH ASSISTANCE OF COUNTRY IN DEMISE IS CREATING A WORLD OF HATE AND SEPARATION.

US IS PROVIDING THE FIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD.
US GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE DESTROYING THE GREAT US.

MADICARE IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE BY 40% OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY INCLUDING HOSPITALS. MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SENIORS IS A FARCE REPRESENTING US HYPOCRICY

SOC. SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REVOKED IN 15 YEARS. THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY COLLECTED FROM THE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS AND YEARS.

THEY ARE BROKE. EACH DAY AMERICAN GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE IS DEPENDENT ENTIRELY ON FOREIGN LOANS.

A FOREIGN COUNTRY OF 6,000,000 PEOPLE HAS STRIPPED THE US TREASURY OF $90,000,000,000 AS TO SUPPORT ITS MILITARY ARSENAL AND OPPRESS
ITS NEIGHBORS.

WHEN WILL THIS ALL END????
Posted by: SIBARIS | August 18, 2006 08:38 AM

Preview your Comment
ISRAEL WITH ASSISTANCE OF COUNTRY IN DEMISE IS CREATING A WORLD OF HATE AND SEPARATION.

US IS PROVIDING THE FIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD.
US GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE DESTROYING THE GREAT US.

MADICARE IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE BY 40% OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY INCLUDING HOSPITALS. MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SENIORS IS A FARCE REPRESENTING US HYPOCRICY

SOC. SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REVOKED IN 15 YEARS. THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY COLLECTED FROM THE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS AND YEARS.

THEY ARE BROKE. EACH DAY AMERICAN GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE IS DEPENDENT ENTIRELY ON FOREIGN LOANS.

A FOREIGN COUNTRY OF 6,000,000 PEOPLE HAS STRIPPED THE US TREASURY OF $90,000,000,000 AS TO SUPPORT ITS MILITARY ARSENAL AND OPPRESS
ITS NEIGHBORS.

WHEN WILL THIS ALL END????
Posted by: SIBARIS | August 18, 2006 08:38 AM

Preview your Comment
ISRAEL WITH ASSISTANCE OF COUNTRY IN DEMISE IS CREATING A WORLD OF HATE AND SEPARATION.

US IS PROVIDING THE FIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD.
US GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE DESTROYING THE GREAT US.

MADICARE IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE BY 40% OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY INCLUDING HOSPITALS. MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SENIORS IS A FARCE REPRESENTING US HYPOCRICY

SOC. SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REVOKED IN 15 YEARS. THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY COLLECTED FROM THE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS AND YEARS.

THEY ARE BROKE. EACH DAY AMERICAN GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE IS DEPENDENT ENTIRELY ON FOREIGN LOANS.

A FOREIGN COUNTRY OF 6,000,000 PEOPLE HAS STRIPPED THE US TREASURY OF $90,000,000,000 AS TO SUPPORT ITS MILITARY ARSENAL AND OPPRESS
ITS NEIGHBORS.

WHEN WILL THIS ALL END????
Posted by: SIBARIS | August 18, 2006 08:38 AM

Preview your Comment
ISRAEL WITH ASSISTANCE OF COUNTRY IN DEMISE IS CREATING A WORLD OF HATE AND SEPARATION.

US IS PROVIDING THE FIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD.
US GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE DESTROYING THE GREAT US.

MADICARE IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE BY 40% OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY INCLUDING HOSPITALS. MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SENIORS IS A FARCE REPRESENTING US HYPOCRICY

SOC. SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REVOKED IN 15 YEARS. THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY COLLECTED FROM THE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS AND YEARS.

THEY ARE BROKE. EACH DAY AMERICAN GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE IS DEPENDENT ENTIRELY ON FOREIGN LOANS.

A FOREIGN COUNTRY OF 6,000,000 PEOPLE HAS STRIPPED THE US TREASURY OF $90,000,000,000 AS TO SUPPORT ITS MILITARY ARSENAL AND OPPRESS
ITS NEIGHBORS.

WHEN WILL THIS ALL END????
Posted by: SIBARIS | August 18, 2006 08:38 AM

Preview your Comment
ISRAEL WITH ASSISTANCE OF COUNTRY IN DEMISE IS CREATING A WORLD OF HATE AND SEPARATION.

US IS PROVIDING THE FIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD.
US GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE DESTROYING THE GREAT US.

MADICARE IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE BY 40% OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY INCLUDING HOSPITALS. MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SENIORS IS A FARCE REPRESENTING US HYPOCRICY

SOC. SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REVOKED IN 15 YEARS. THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY COLLECTED FROM THE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS AND YEARS.

THEY ARE BROKE. EACH DAY AMERICAN GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE IS DEPENDENT ENTIRELY ON FOREIGN LOANS.

A FOREIGN COUNTRY OF 6,000,000 PEOPLE HAS STRIPPED THE US TREASURY OF $90,000,000,000 AS TO SUPPORT ITS MILITARY ARSENAL AND OPPRESS
ITS NEIGHBORS.

WHEN WILL THIS ALL END????
Posted by: SIBARIS | August 18, 2006 08:38 AM

Preview your Comment
ISRAEL WITH ASSISTANCE OF COUNTRY IN DEMISE IS CREATING A WORLD OF HATE AND SEPARATION.

US IS PROVIDING THE FIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD.
US GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE DESTROYING THE GREAT US.

MADICARE IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE BY 40% OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY INCLUDING HOSPITALS. MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SENIORS IS A FARCE REPRESENTING US HYPOCRICY

SOC. SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REVOKED IN 15 YEARS. THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY COLLECTED FROM THE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS AND YEARS.

THEY ARE BROKE. EACH DAY AMERICAN GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE IS DEPENDENT ENTIRELY ON FOREIGN LOANS.

A FOREIGN COUNTRY OF 6,000,000 PEOPLE HAS STRIPPED THE US TREASURY OF $90,000,000,000 AS TO SUPPORT ITS MILITARY ARSENAL AND OPPRESS
ITS NEIGHBORS.

WHEN WILL THIS ALL END????
Posted by: SIBARIS | August 18, 2006 08:38 AM

Preview your Comment
ISRAEL WITH ASSISTANCE OF COUNTRY IN DEMISE IS CREATING A WORLD OF HATE AND SEPARATION.

US IS PROVIDING THE FIRES ALL OVER THE WORLD.
US GOVERNMENT LEADERS ARE DESTROYING THE GREAT US.

MADICARE IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE BY 40% OF THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY INCLUDING HOSPITALS. MEDICARE REIMBURSEMENT FOR SENIORS IS A FARCE REPRESENTING US HYPOCRICY

SOC. SOCIAL SECURITY WILL BE REVOKED IN 15 YEARS. THE US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY COLLECTED FROM THE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS AND YEARS.

THEY ARE BROKE. EACH DAY AMERICAN GOVERNMENT'S EXISTENCE IS DEPENDENT ENTIRELY ON FOREIGN LOANS.

A FOREIGN COUNTRY OF 6,000,000 PEOPLE HAS STRIPPED THE US TREASURY OF $90,000,000,000 AS TO SUPPORT ITS MILITARY ARSENAL AND OPPRESS
ITS NEIGHBORS.

WHEN WILL THIS ALL END????
Posted by: SIBARIS | August 18, 2006 08:38 AM

IF A HANDFULL OF RESISTANCE FIGHTERS COULD STAND A 30 DAY
DAY WAR, TODAY, WHAT ABOUT 10 YEARS FROM NOW??.

WHEN ALL THOSE LITTLE ARAB KIDS THAT WATCH TODAYS SUFFERING WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO BE WHEN MATURING.

IF A HANDFULL OF RESISTANCE FIGHTERS COULD STAND A 30 DAY
DAY WAR, TODAY, WHAT ABOUT 10 YEARS FROM NOW??.

WHEN ALL THOSE LITTLE ARAB KIDS THAT WATCH TODAYS SUFFERING WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO BE WHEN MATURING.

IF A HANDFULL OF RESISTANCE FIGHTERS COULD STAND A 30 DAY
DAY WAR, TODAY, WHAT ABOUT 10 YEARS FROM NOW??.

WHEN ALL THOSE LITTLE ARAB KIDS THAT WATCH TODAYS SUFFERING WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO BE WHEN MATURING.

Quote Baby Troll:
WHEN WILL THIS ALL END????
---

When the grown up's say so, now go to your room.