Calls for restraint sound reminiscent of the days prior to WWII when it was believed that appeasement of Hitler's ambitions would result in "peace in our time." All that did was embolden Hitler to take more and more.

If killing the enemy results in more enemy, then we will have to oblige them all with martyrdom.

The BS about the Palestinians wanting statehood is ridiculous. They have collected more money from the free world than Europe did under the Marshall Plan, and the only thing they have ever contributed to our language is "suicide bomber."

I am rooting for Israel because Israel is the only country that is standing up for what is right. God's wrath is being visted on the satanic elements of this world and it is just a matter of time before God prevails through His servant Israel.

God bless America and God bless Israel.

Words mean nothing, hezbolla only understands force. As for the islamist terrorist lovers in the middle east being hardened toward Israel's defense of their state, so what? They already hate Israel and want to destroy the state. It's about time Israel stood up for itself and destroyed hezbolla and other terrorists while the timing is on their side.

I'm hearing the term "World War III" more and more these days. This world-wide conflict with Islam sure walks like a duck and looks like a duck to me.

If this is indeed the beginning of World War III, let us be clear about our objective. Islam has started this fight, we must finish it. I have lost all faith in bringing democracy to the muslims in the belief that democracy breeds tolerance and goodwill. -cough- Hamas -cough- Hezbollah.

Perhaps our goal should be nothing less than the destruction of Islam as a religion. We could aggressively proselytize the muslims and convert them to some modern secular humanism belief system. We could smash Mecca and Medina. I agree with the sentiment that we need to win their hearts and minds- but I think that should include this strategy of ending Islam once and for all. Let's admit that it is a force for evil in this world and confront it.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." - (David Ben-Gurion, May 1948. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar)
It is obvious today that Ben Gourion's strategy which has been applied by Israel for decades in Gaza and Lebanon has failed, missiles are striking Haifa. Who in the right mind can believe that peace will raise from the slaughtering of 230 lebanese civilians ? Anyone remembers Vietnam, Afganistan, Irak ? There is no exemple of occupying forces winning in a asymetrical war no matter the horrors they are ready to commit. The West is proving that the extreme Islamists are right. It is just a matter of time we learn it the hard way.

The 'genius' Bush also calls the Israeli aggression against the Lebanese civilian population and the civilian infrastructure as an act of 'self-defence', I suppose like he is 'defending' the US in Iraq! According to him the capture of the Israeli soldiers by the resistance forces is the source of the problem, just like 9/11 being the point where the history of conflict began. Bush and the media-terrorists conveniently ignored the offer made by Hamas and Hizb-Ullah to exchange prisoners, and all this bloodshed could have been avoided, if that route was sought. Yet we have put up with Bush and the Zionists continuously uttering "peace", of course what they mean is "pieces" of Lebanese and Palestinian children!

I'm voting for Israel as well. They're tough people who are fighting for their right to exist in a part of the world where most of their neighbors hate them. We advise them to exercise restraint, but make no mistake we will support them to the bitter end. So listen up all you Jew haters, America can send bombs to Israel as fast as Israeli jets can drop them. But I guess if you're stupid enough to blow yourself up, what does that say about who you choose to anger?

I mean WOW. So lets destroy a religion, oblige them with martydom. Hoo boy.

Last I checked the muslims in Turkey seemed to have grip on democracy. Everyone understands both words and force.

But lets get back to the bigger picture rather than nonconstructive posts. What has not been discussed is the impact that Israel (and remember that's your tax dollars at work, the aircraft Israel is flying over Lebanon) attacking Shia has on the Shia population in Iraq. To understand just how very bad this is for the US interests in Iraq, you only need to hear Sadr's reaction.

The Isreali overreaction will lead to ugly and unforseen consequences.

Jean Moulin, the french "resistant" freedom fighter was called a terrorist by the Nazis occupying France. Israel has learnt the lesson and applies the German exemple.
Killing of civilians
prison and torture
land invasion
displacement of population
concept of a superior race
Europe was sleeping during the Nazi uprising. Today the history repeats itself.

Hey Marc, there's pieces of Lebanese and Palestinian children scattered all over the middle east simply because their father took the money & let some guy strap a bomb on his kid. Then he complains when the victims of his 'suicide bomber' child strikes back. Get a grip Marc.

Readers: Please note the fake Western-sounding names used by "Tony Best" and "Marc Amelot."

Some of the spelling errors and insider-only spelling ("Hizb-Ullah" anyone) suggest that we've got some undercover arabs in here.

Arabs: I have a question for you. Since the existance of some 6 million people in your neighborhood that you don't think belong there drive you to terrorism, how do you justify entering Western lands? There are some 6 million arabs in France alone. The only difference is that the Europeans and us Americans aren't savage barbarians who behead people and bear 13 children so it won't be too sad when we encourage some of them to blow themselves up.

Arabs: Give up terrorism.

The kidnapping of 2 soldiers causes Israel to go berserk and kill hundreds and cripple a nation. A simple trade of prisoners for 2 soldiers sounds like a civilized approach. Obviously, Israel had another agenda and refuses to act like a civilized nation. Just meditate on the children in the hospitals. SAD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice try, "Tony Best," but your little quote "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population" is as false as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Google it. Which I'm sure is on your nightstand, next to Mein Kampf.

Speaking of Mein Kampf, I'm always amused (in a black comedy sort of way) that this book is a bestseller in the arab world. Do the arabs really think that if they were in Germany during the nazi days that they wouldn't have problems? It's insanity. Every once in a while a swastika gets painted on a mosque and the muslims cry "persecuted minority." It is the biggest instance of hypocracy you will ever see.

"Hezbollah's militia currently has about 500 to 600 full-time fighters"
How many have been killed so far ? 20 ? 30 ?
So to kill 20 Hezbollah fighters it took Israel to slaughter 250 innocent civilians. In order to exterminate all of them (that's the plan) we can expect the death of more or less 7,500 innocent women and children ?
Let's count them to see when this will end !!
Pure madness.

Hey Jon M, no I am not an Arab but (you gonna like it) a french man. (I can see you getting all excited).
Thanks anyway for you racist comment about Arabs not welcome to post here, unless they hide their names.
You proved my point.

French, arab, what's the difference these days? Nice soccer team you've got there.

Zidane sucks.

Hey Marc, I guess you never learned English grammar where you came from. (Thanks anyway for you racist comment) No answer to my comment, huh? Pretty hard to defend a father watching his own flesh & blood blow themselves up for a few bucks. Once again Marc, you gotta get a grip.

Hey Rich.
If you believe that the 250 Lebanese civilans killed were suicide bombers, switch to Fox news.

Uh Marc, we were talking about "pieces" of Lebanese and Palestinian children, remember?

I can never understand why the followers of the "Prince of Peace" are such war-mongers.

Rich, I will try to educate you. You seem to be a nice guy. Please rent a movie called "Paradise Now". I suppose you are open minded enough to do so, because I find rather primitive you vision of the problem.
Please excuse my English grammar. When your French will be as good as my English, get back to me.

We've all been murdering our fellow man 'in the name of God' as long as long as we've been crawling around on this planet.

No thanks Marc, never wanted to go there or learn the lingo. But maybe I'll check out the dvd @ my local Blockbuster. Then I won't be primitive.

Apparently the same geniuses that advised the Bush administration are advising Israel. The best way to fight terrorism isn't to indiscriminantly drop bombs "in the general vicinity." That will only create more terrorists than you kill.

Imagine losing a father or a brother or a friend to one of those "peace bombs" that Israel drops. Would that make you love Israel and hate your neighbor, Hizbullah? Not likely.

I'm very saddened to see the racist comments in print regarding muslims and arabs. Eradicating Islam sounds very similar to the rhetoric of Hitler and Judaism. And the way people are blanketing all arabs under one stereotype reminds me of the way Asians were treated in the US during WWII. If you took the time to truly know the religion and culture you would soon understand that it is poverty, lack of educational opportunities and lack of world-wide efforts that is causing terrorism. It is not a product of the arab/muslim culture.

The best way to defeat Hizbullah ?

Give the Palestinians, color TV, satelite dishes, internet access, schools, hospital, jobs, access to free press ....
Hizbullah will vanish. Cheaper than bombs.

tReligion is the source of most evil. If there is a God watching his creations, and I believe there is, He must also hate religion. It has been the main source of murder, torture and suffering for the last 5000 years. Once you say "I know what God wants, and you don't" anything can be justified.

Ok...Israel wants to defeat hezbollah, fine...but to do it all the way. Send boots in Lebanon like Sharon the butcher did in 82! If I remember well it turned out pretty well... doesn't the 82 invasion gave birth to Hezbollah in the first place?
The Israelis should show some cojones and invade Lebanon, not only the south but all Lebanon, and then try to rout out the whole hezbollah militia. I wish Israel good luck. Crippling Lebanon, destroying its whole infrastructure and displacing half a milion people that Israel has been doing cowardly since a week won't achieve anything, and I can bet that hezbollah will still be there and will even be stronger.
Furthermore, as a result of this whole mess, try now to bring back Iran to the negotiating table regarding its nuclear enrichment...So now you have nuclear Iran knocking at your door...fantastic!
Last year USA and France missed a good opportunity to stabilize the region. They should have followed, after getting Syria out of Lebanon, by helping the lebanese army to disarm hezbollah...
...and my advice to Lebanon, get a f..cking good army in the future so this will not happen a third time...
BTW, I am no Jew hater (neither a mulsim one), I just have the right to disagree with Israel policies...

JonM.

Ever heard of Timothy McVeigh?

I always love this talk about how it's "poverty" which is responsible for terroristm and how if we were to "Give the Palestinians, color TV, satelite dishes, internet access, schools, hospital, jobs, access to free press ....Hizbullah will vanish."
I've got news for you, the Palestinians have access to these things, but it doesnt help. If you havent noticed, Al Jazeera (tv, satellite dishes) is a huge hit in the arab world, most of these terror groups have web sites (internet access), and we occasioanlly hear about Israel accidentally bombing a school, hospital, etc.
Let us not forget that the terrorists who committed the bombings in London last year were mostly MIDDLE CLASS BRITISH CITIZENS (as in, not poor). Please explain how this fits into your theory.

Why is there only ever outrage at the actions of the Israelis? Where is the outrage when a Hamas terrorist blows up innocent Israelis? Where is the outrage at Hizbullah firing off hundreds of rockets, day in day out at Israel without any provocation? Where is the outrage when Hamas and Hizbullah, both representatives of the own governments make their way into sovereign (and undisputed) Israeli territory to kidnap and murder Israeli soldiers and civilians? Where is the outrage there? Or is it that Jewish blood is somehow worth less?

Israel has shown nothing but restraint under the circumstances. It has used all its efforts, including putting the lives of its own soldiers at risk, so as to avoid and minimise civilian casualties on the other side. This is contrasted to their attackers, who measure success by the number of innocent civilians they are able to murder and maim.

Israel has been left with no choice but to defend itself. What many fail to recognise is that Israel's threat is an existential one. It is faced with neighbours who care not about the wellbeing of their own people, but more about wiping Israel off the map. As Golda Meir once said, "there will only be peace in the middle-east once the Arabs learn to love their children more than they hate the Israelis."

It is to Israel that we should be offering all our support and resources, while only condemnation and harsh rebuke to its attackers.

One more thing. To all of you people critical of the current Israeli policy, what would YOU do? You bemoan the loss of innocent Lebanese lives, yet what is your alternative?
Don't tell me "cease-fire and prisoner exchange." Last time Israel conducted a prisoner exchange with Hezbollah the trade was a couple live Israelis and a couple dead bodies for some 500 terrorists. No self-respecting country in the world would ever show such misplaced goodwill towards enemied pledged to destroy it. If you really think that a "prisoner exhange" with Hezbollag is an equitable propostion, your judgement is highly suspect.

Let Israel have a piece of land in Germany or Europe. See if the Europeans can live with them!

To whoever wrote the comment about stereotyping Muslims:
Racism and stereotyping are horrible, but I don't think you can blame the barbaric behavior of radical Islamic fundamentalists around the world on "poverty, lack of educational opportunities and lack of world-wide efforts." Please tell me why the radical fundamentalists are so violent towards other people. Terrible things have happened in the Middle East, in India, in the U.S., etc. I don't believe it's due to poverty. There's a basic lack of respect for the value of human life. Why is that?

Also, there are a number of incredibly wealthy Arab nations who could easily offer money to help with educational opportunities and the things you listed. Why aren't they helping their Muslim brethren?

Hmmmm, not many people here seem to be conversant in military tactics or strategy. Israel is not purposefully bombing Lebanese civilians and/or the Lebanese Govt. property. If they were there would be many more dead by now and the Lebanese government would virtually cease to exist. This, however, is not in their interests.

They are attempting to blockade all logistical avenues for resupply to Hezbollah, cut off all avenue for escape, and play whack-a-mole with the Katayusha rocket launchers. If you want to blame anyone for the civilian deaths lay it at the doorstep of Hezbollah itself.

They, like many other irregular and guerilla forces throughout history(i.e. Vietcong, Taliban, Al-Qaeda, etc.), are co-mingling their materiel and troops in residential neighborhoods and trying to use the civilian population as human shields and camoflauge.

In my opinion, however savage war may be, it is a necessary evil. Without conflict there is no resolution. Without destruction there is no creation. The greatest problem in the Middle East has been the interjection of outside parties to create an artificial peace neither side really wants.

I think it best to let a conflict come to finality so that the everyone else can move on. Total war temporarily creates peace, a simple lesson from WWII. Utter exhaustion, the desire for one's safety, and the realization of imminent and total defeat by one side or the other creates the optimum conditions for suing for peace. Armistices, cease-fires, and the like simply postpone the day of reckoning further into the future.

Jon M and Rich Peterson,

Hatemongers of the same coin.

Israel kills with impunity and has a blank check on state terror; yet I see you "defending Israel."

Israel, the nuke-laden middle Eastern juggernauth, don't need you quasi-wave the Israeli flag, American Zionists to do its defending...or should I say offending!

Its knows how to do morally blackmail the average Americans with its AIPAC and United Jewish Committee (AJC), and Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations (CPMJO) well enough esp. about the claptrap about "the Holocaust suffered by European Jewry."

Listen Jon, this is the 21st Century and the oppressed have morphed to become the most vicious oppressors with irregard to international law and military standards.

It responds to 2 military POW's (not kidnappers) with a full invasion and aeral bombings of a sovereign nation. If that's not racist I don't know what is...

And the defeaning silence of the Bush administration with the gutless effort to stand up for American interests over Israel's yet again proves, the blatantly one-sided biased foreign policy, we have on our hands.

And Peterson,

Just to get an ounce worth of the venom you call for, maybe someone should call for the bombing of your city starting with your house, family, and children. Pretty upsetting thought isn't it? Well that's the horror of state terroristic tactics employed by your favorite state of Israel with American made bombs and weapons. And when there is another barrakcs bombings like in '82 in response to another Israeli invasion and massacre of 2,000 Palestinian refugees in slums; don't wonder why that happened!!!!!

So when terrorists from the Middle East do strike again, don't scratch your head and wonder why they choose "poor us" as a target... you can ask your pro-Israeli politicians and spineless appeasers of Israel the military Goliath for that answer!

There is no double standard. The numbers don't add up to Israeli sympathy; the Israelis kill 3 Palestinians for every one Israeli killed in a "horrific" bus bombing... nevermind that the victims of bus bombings are as uncaring of the cause of death as any recipient of an Israeli rocket. The insane double standard is Israeli apologists who insist that "acts of terror trump all other acts in evilness" without any concept of "measured response".

So you play a boring "no moral equivalency" argument by pointing out how much worse a terrorist is than a Government employee firing a rocket... as if the victims could care.

In any event, since Hezbollah is no friend of this American, I wish Israeli the best of luck; but they're going to win that fight without my vote for financial support so long as America is running *merely* 300 billion dollar deficits. And you won't get my supportive vote for pro-Israeli UN reps either, or pro-Israeli federal reps either since the common denominator in every American-directed terrorist attack is Israeli-American complicity.

Best wishes, but I want my 3 billion a year in tax dollars back immediately.

To those of you who actually believe that Israel's reaction is solely in response to the kidnapping of its soldiers... you really must educate yourselves. For decades, Israel has been under attack by all sorts of radical groups solely because it exists. These idiots refuse to accept that Israel has a right to exist and have wasted their energy on its destruction instead of actually helping their own people to get out of their terrible conditions. The real issue here is how much these terrorists hate Israelis/Jews and anything other than that is propoganda or sugar-coating the truth.

In case you have never read an objective history book, Judaism predated both Christianity and Islam. There were always large numbers of Jewish people in the region we now call Israel. Those were the Jews who managed to survive despotic rulers over the centuries or those who returned after being treated horribly in other countries. No other group of people actually laid claim to that land prior to the formation of the state of Israel. To say that Israelis are occupying land that doesn't belong to them is a fallacy.

Israel has every right to defend its land and especially its citizens from attacks by people hell-bent on destroying them. Wouldn't you expect the same from the government of your country? In addition, it seems that the only thing the Arabs understand is strength. Diplomacy doesn't seem to work; they still behead their prisoners. How do you even attempt to negotiate with people who have so little regard for human life?

Israel needs to do what it needs to do, and sending the terrorists scurrying like the rats that they are is a necessity.

"So when terrorists from the Middle East do strike again, don't scratch your head and wonder why they choose "poor us" as a target... you can ask your pro-Israeli politicians and spineless appeasers of Israel the military Goliath for that answer!"
Wow, Nazim. If I may say so, that's really messed up. It's sounds as if you're saying that our support of Israel gives muslim terrorists a legitemate reason to kill innocent Americans. That's way off the deep end.

Look, defending Israel is not enough. Those country who pro-Israel, can give a piece of land & independence to Israel. Live side by side and have fun. Arabs have done their part. Fair & square.

Nazim,

POWs?????? Uhmm, without a formal declaration of war there can be no Prisoners of WAR, only extra-legal abductions, disappearances, and kidnapping. If you argue there is an existing formal declaration of war then both sides are free to do as they see fit. However, if so, there should be no whining about the consequences. War is horrible and cruel and not a path to be blindly trod down upon.

At the end of the day, who cares who started what. It is who ends it that matters. Middle Eastern (i.e. Arab AND Jewish) hipocrisy always has amazed me.

To Matt:
"Let Israel have a piece of land in Germany or Europe. See if the Europeans can live with them!"
Obviously, you missed a huge chapter that took place in our last century. That would be the part about WWII and the Holocaust. Apparently, many Europeans couldn't live with them, so they murdered 6 million people. Maybe you should study history and lift youself out of your ignorance.

I am very hopeful that Israel will penetrate its enemy and deal a severe blow to Hizbollah and Hamas. It is imperative that they crush the Iranian satellites. Sadly, it may be a few years more until the head of the snake, (Iran), is met head on, with all the worlds military might. It is only a matter of time. Militant Islam will gain no traction when it is put to a vote by civilized peoples from around the world. Animals that desire death over life, at the expense of the common man, will perish.

Someone asked, "Where is the outrage when Hamas and Hizbullah, both representatives of the own governments make their way into sovereign (and undisputed) Israeli territory to kidnap and murder Israeli soldiers and civilians? Where is the outrage there? Or is it that Jewish blood is somehow worth less?"

The outrage is the systematic and disproportoinate warfare and the daily bombings of an entire nation of Lebanon (where 270 CIVILIANS have been killed compared to 27 on the Israeli side) by the racist, arrogant gov't of Israel.

You talk about "kidnapping" Israeli civilians. First of all, Hezbollah didn't capture "civilians" and second of all its called CAPTURING when soldiers are taken in a time of war (as war Israel has always been against with Hezbollah). Let's not forget Hezbollah only came into being with Israeli invasion of Lebanon led under the comatose barbarian Ariel "the Butcher" Sharon, responsible for the Sabra and Shatilla massacre. (For those unfamiliar with it, google it up).

Ah talking about kidnapping. Its a tactic Israel is all too familiar with. I ask where is the outrage when Israel regularly KIDNAPPS Political prisoners as they did in Lebanon during middle of the night and has kept them in Israeli jails for years and years, many of whom are women?

Where is the OUTRAGE when fully one-third of the Palestinian DEMOCRATIC LEGISLATURE was KIDNAPPED by Israeli military thugs against the assault againt their Ramallah Parliament? Oh, let me guess, in Bush's word "they were defending themselves, right?" And on yea, let me guess, "Iran and Syria" were helping those legitimate Palestinian lawmakers of Hamas enact anti-Israeli laws too? And lets not forget before the capture, Israel tried to starve the entire Palestinian populace and leading a campaign (with Condi Rice's and Dick Cheney's help) to blockade them until they regreat voting for and excercising their DEMOCRATIC RIGHT of choosing a corrupt-free government of Hamas instead of Fatah.

As for Jewish blood being less? I see that it is just the opposite. For 3 Israeli SOLIERS, NOT CIVILIANS, we see MILITARY bombardment by American F-16 jets, families of 9 killed and decapitated, an entire nation blockaded via Air, land, and naval sea by Israeli warships?

And we have people wondering about random acts of terrorism? If that's not Propaganda, I don't know what is. The root cause of terrorism is precisely the heavy-handed use of Israel warmachine, fully bankrolled by my government, a shameful and obvious partial observer trying to be an "impartial broker" of Mid-East peace.

State terrorism is 1,000X worse than some organizational terrorism because 1) they should know better 2) give the excuse of "defending itself" and have gov't officials parade those talking points on the world media PR; a luxury terrorist organizations don't have with offical "gov't spokesman" 3) State terrorism is done with efficiency and fully planned backing of a "legtimate" nation state unlike illegitimate terrorist groups.

Israel could have defeated Hezbollah, by returning to legality and helping to strengthen its secular democratic rivals in Lebanon. Instead, it has played right into Hezbollah's hands with its barbaric and murderous campaign against Lebanese civilians. I once respected and admired Israel but if this is what Israel stands for, then any self-respecting Lebanese would have to consider joining Hezbollah. With its crimes hundreds of innocent civilians, Israel has just created a whole new generation of recruits for it and other militant groups.

The phrase, I think, is most aptly applied to the Israelis, not the Palestinians: The Israelis never miss a chance to miss a chance.

Dearest Stephanie:

"Let Israel have a piece of land in Germany or Europe. See if the Europeans can live with them!"

They can't and that's why they are content to have their moral blackspot for their Genocide against Jews, translate into their support for Israel carved out of Arab land, so that becomes the problem of Palestinians and not Germans, French, Italians, and even Americans.

As the Iranian President rightfully asserts, "Why should the Palestinian people suffer for the crimes of Europeans?" Israel's creation was debated by orthodox Jews themselves who claim it is in violation of God's command because the Messiah hasn't come and established it yet...I guess those rabbis are "anti-Semitic" too as critics of Israel are dubbed by the pro-Israel PR machine.

Organizational terror is much worse than state violence for a number of reasons:

1. Who do you make peace with when there is no one that represents all factions of the orgainization?

2. When peace is made with an organization, disaffected members can easily start a new one and continue fighting, see for example REAL IRA.

3. States usually play by an established set of understood methodologies.

4. States are responsible for their citizenry, organizations are only responsible to their members, not the wider society.

5. Organizations are not a member of international institutions and/or treaties and thus there are no restrainyts placed upon them.

You warmongers never learn. Bush, Olmert, Hamas, Hezbollah, it's all the same. You give yourself the right to kill innocent human beings. Bush and Olmert think they're cool, cause they don't deliberately kill innocent people. You think innocent people would care whether they were killed or otherwise devastated deliberately or not? What rogue nations America and Israel have become, incapable of feeling anyone's pain but their own.

To Response to AO:
What are you talking about? The soldiers were KIDNAPPED within their own country. That is an act of war. Israel is not at war with Hezbollah. It's the other way around considering Hezbollah doesn't believe in Israel's right to exist. I suppose you think that Hezbollah's continual firing of rockets into civilian areas of Israel (which occurred regularly before this past week's incidents) is acceptable.

The entire nation of Lebanon is not being bombed. The Israelis are targeting areas where they can destroy Hezbollah strongholds. What other country drops pamphlets urging civilians to vacate an area? You should wish that the militaries of other countries in that area of the world are so concerned with the deaths of innocent people. But how do you even fathom the thinking of the barbarians who blow themselves up on buses, killing innocent people? Or those who fly planes into buildings? Are you really able to support these people?

You have posted a lot of inaccurate information, and your rantings make you appear very unbelivable. You really ought to educate yourself about the truth behind what happens in that area of the world so you don't seem to ignorant.

"The outrage is the systematic and disproportoinate warfare and the daily bombings of an entire nation of Lebanon (where 270 CIVILIANS have been killed compared to 27 on the Israeli side) by the racist, arrogant gov't of Israel."
I still dont get it. For one, if you havent noticed, Hezbollah is ALSO "bombing...and entire nation" (the whole northern part of Israel). And they're doing it in a much less discriminatory manner. Hezbollah missiles (unlike the precision munitions of Israel) are innacurate, and only good for hitting large population centers - which is all Hezbollah needs them for. If you consider the sheer number of Israeli missiles fired so far (the latest figure I read was 2,000 + sorties), the fact that only a couple hundred civilians have been killed is quite low. Add to this fact that many Hezbollah targets are intentionally placed in residential areas, and it is neat miraculous.
I especially love all the talk about numbers. Ignorant people assume that since Israel usually ends up killing more of the enemy, they must be the bad guys. What a preposterour notion. The Japanese killed a few thousand Americans in their treacherous attack on Pearl Harbor. In the ensuing war, we killed a couple million Japanse. We were most certainly in the right in that situation.

Hmmm, why is that Stephanie? I wonder, who can live with them? What's wrong with them? Are they being so cute? Was Hitler jealous? Pharaoh during Moses was envy of them? Jesus was dumped by them? Hey, the Jews must be so special coz the history of human kind has been filled by them.

Matt K.,

Who "carved out of Arab land" for Israel? Are you saying that the Jewish people never had any claim to the land in that region? That the so-called Palestinians (a "nation" that didn't exist before 1948) had a territorial claim to that land?

Israel was not created from Arab land nor was it created solely because of European guilt. Read some history and educate yourself.

You lose complete credibility when you start quoting the Iranian madman leader. He is a certifiable lunatic who denies that the Holocaust even took place. And frankly, why does he care if Israel exists anyway.

Matt K.,

You know Stephanie is right about the fact that the land was left fallow and unproductive until the Israelis settled it.
Only when it was productive and of value did the Arabs give two stones about it. Until then it was salt and desert with a few date farms and semi-nomadic tribesmen.

Keep quoting the Iranian President. I'm sure that will work out for you as he is sooo full of logic and, of course, would be a completely unbiased person in this situation. Sheesh...

Also, FYI there are more Jews in the US than anywhere else in the world except for Israel (US has almost a third of the worldwide Jewish population), so uh, I guess we already got the " moral blackspot" or whatever your incoherent rambling calls it. Get a grip.

Matt K. --

You come across as a raving anti-Semite, and it's impossible to have a reasonable and intelligent debate with someone who is so unevolved. Good luck to you.

is 1559 the first un resolution relevant to this conflict? could some of the zionists out there please justify the continued occupation of the palestinian territories and lording over the palestinian people.

word of caution, its just a matter of time before the american people demand justice for the palestinian people.

To Stephanie:-
"Obviously, you missed a huge chapter that took place in our last century. That would be the part about WWII and the Holocaust. Apparently, many Europeans couldn't live with them, so they murdered 6 million people. Maybe you should study history and lift youself out of your ignorance.
"
So thats why all the Jewish people forcibly evicted all the palestinains from there land because they thought having suffered at the hands of the Nazis gave them the right to inflict harm on others."
Does that make sense to anyone...?
I would really like to hear whats the justification for forcibly taking land from the palestinians. Israel continues to occupy land and refuses the right of refugees to come back to there homes.
BTW muslims dont hate jews( as happened in europe ). Its just that when you take land from people evict from there homes and occupy them for thirty years people do tend to retalliate.
Having said that when Israel started towards peace muslims should also have reciprocated.
So yes mistakes have been made on both sides.

Why is the United States the only country to fully support and back Israel?

The answer lies right at home. Our politicians are cowards who kowtow to two powerful lobby groups: pro-Israeli Jews and Soutern Baptist Evangelical Protestants.

The Jews form only 2% of the population, yet represent the Congress disproportionately by 15% (that's by 7 times) and by 9 to 1 margin have a heavy pro-Israeli tilt.

And the Zionist Evangelicals and their neoconservative ilk like Newt Gingrich, Franklin Graham, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Sean Hannity, druggie Limbaugh are also heavily pro-Israeli. No wonder they call for a world war and bash France. Their pathological allegiance to Israel with complete disregard to American safety and interests throughout the world borders on open treason.

Citizenship is not enough. Anybody can live in anybody's country granted he has a citizenship. Give them the land & independence. Obviously they want one. Fair & square

"Hmmm, why is that Stephanie? I wonder, who can live with them? What's wrong with them? Are they being so cute? Was Hitler jealous? Pharaoh during Moses was envy of them? Jesus was dumped by them? Hey, the Jews must be so special coz the history of human kind has been filled by them."

Matt,

Please go back to your cave. Suggesting that Hitler had a reasonable cause for the things he did is offensive not only to Jewish people, but also the Roma, Poles, Russians, and all the Allied soldiers, including my grandfather, who gave their lives so you could still be here and not be saluting the swastika. I am not Jewish, but a student of history and the reason why they were traeted so horribly was that they were often more wealthy and educated than the populations they lived among. Greed and envy by others, then, as now, are the main cause of their suffering.

I wouldn't describe this as war, but looting of another sovereign state. Hezbollah is only able to fire few rockets to some states in the north of Israel but Israel is bombing all over Lebanon, deliberately targetting Lebanese infrastructure. By supporting these sorts of atrocities US could be better named as a supporter of Israeli terrorism just like Iran and Syria.

To PeaceForALL:

Please tell me what you're talking about when you say "all the Jewish people forcibly evicted all the palestinains from there land because they thought having suffered at the hands of the Nazis gave them the right to inflict harm on others."

First of all, "all the Jewish people" doesn't make sense. Are you referring to the Jewish people who lived in that region or to all the Jews in the world? I was under the impression that the British were instrumental in declaring the borders for present-day Israel.

Second, when were the Palestinians forcibly removed from land that they never actually owned? Did Israel give up the Gaza Strip not too long ago only to have rockets fired into Israel proper for the past several months? Hmmm....

"Its just that when you take land from people evict from there homes and occupy them for thirty years people do tend to retalliate." Are you saying there's a justification for suicide bombings, stabbings and kiling innocent people? There is absolutely NO justification for retaliation in that manner. How about if the Palestinians actually learn the value of human life?

Golda Meir once said something like, "When the Arabs love their children more than they hate Jews, there will be peace." Teach that to the mothers who are so proud of their children who are raised to blow themselves into pieces in order to kill innocent people. Is that what brings about peace?

Let's be brually honest here. The whole issue here is not due to some small areas of land under dispute. The bigger issue is that Israel exists at all. That Israel thrives in an area that was once almost uninhabitable. That Israel has made huge advancements in medicine, in science, in the high-tech industries and in the arts. All done without a drop of oil money.

Please do yourself a favor and READ SOME HISTORY!!!

Brett:

"Looting a sovereign state???"

"Hezbollah is only able to fire few rockets to some states in the north of Israel but Israel is bombing all over Lebanon, deliberately targetting Lebanese infrastructure."

What are you talking about? Israel is not bombing all over Lebanon. A "few rockets?" Try hundreds! Rockets kill people, you know. The problem is that the rockets they are using are highly inaccurate, which is the only reason there haven't been more Israeli deaths. Syria has been sending more ammunition, rockets and weaponry to Hezbollah all along. The playing field is more level than you think.

Calling Israelis terrorists is laughable and shows your complete ignorance of the dire situation that is occurring.

Israeli is defending its citizens, its land and ultimately, its right to exist, against barbaric people who have no repsect for the value of human life.

To Stephanie
You are correct there is no justification for suicide bombings ,killings etc...
But is there any justification for the continued occupation of west bank and Gaza and the refusal of Palestinians to return to there homes.
Any justification settlements being built in West bank on Palestinian land which is without any dispute is Palestinian Land .
and Yes I have much respect for Israeli nation the way they built the nation having built from barren land and the way they have progressed in so little time.

PeaceForAll:

Gaza is not occupied! Israel pulled out of there quite awhile ago. If Hamas hadn't kidnapped one of Israel's soldiers, Israel wouldn't be there. You can't just let a radical group of people kidnap someone at random and get away with it. If it works once, they'll do it again.

Hannity n Colmes, it seems like you blame pretty much half of the US population for America's support of Israel ("pro-Israeli Jews and Soutern Baptist Evangelical Protestants," "the Zionist Evangelicals and their neoconservative ilk," "Newt Gingrich, Franklin Graham, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Sean Hannity, druggie Limbaugh").
And what American interests are you speaking of? Surely it's in the US interest to support the only true democracy in the region (anyone who honestly thinks that Egypt, Syria, etc. are true democracies need to have their heads examined). I have news for you. If it wasn't for the Arab states' economic leverage (read: oil), the US stance would most likely be even more pro-Israel. You have to ask yourself if it's really in the long-term interests of the US to be close with the backward Arab nations who consistently funnel oil money to finance worldwide terror networks, and whose only saving grace is a natural resource which is being rapidly consumed and for which we are (thankfully) starting to find alternatives for.

Olney from MD said:

Organizational terrorism much worse than state terrorism.

1) Who do you make peace with when there is no one that represents all factions of the orgainization?

Not true, organization means there is a collective standards, principles, goals that hold that organization together. Those who share those views and have a leader(s) who are representative of the group is whom you talk you; just like not everyone agrees with policies of warmonger, profanity-mouthed Bush but agrees he makes or breaks deals (sadly) on behalf of all Americans.

2. When peace is made with an organization, disaffected members can easily start a new one and continue fighting, see for example REAL IRA.

Same thing with a country. Disaffected members can always secede and start their own agenda. Like the anti-abolishinists states seceding and rebelling against banning slavery.

3. States usually play by an established set of understood methodologies.
4. States are responsible for their citizenry, organizations are only responsible to their members, not the wider society.

Again NOT TRUE. Israel hasn't played with an "established set of understood methodologies." It is ruthless, vicious (as the movie Munich can attest), and uses fear and overwhelming military force against its neigbhors to set the status quo. And that is the mother of all ironies, a state is supposed to be a "rational" entity, not a barbaric, war-first ask question later entity. Imagine if Lebanon responded to Israeli barrage with US supplied bombs and blockade of Israeli ports and land? We would be drowned in cries of "anti-Semitism," and a "new Hitler" by now.
Hezbollah is part of the state in Lebanon and that is what irks Israeli officials. It is not only an organization, it is Lebanese government itself. But since the Lebanese gov't doesn't have the capacity or wherewithall to militarily respond to Israeli invasion, Hezbollah (a rag-tag group armed with Katshuyas) does. Therefore it has gained legitimacy and widespread popular appeal for its representation of kicking out Israel from its territory.

5. Organizations are not a member of international institutions and/or treaties and thus there are no restraints placed upon them.

Right. My point exactly. Whereas states have restrictions and must abide by international law. Whereas Israel openly flouts and is in violation of 61 binding UN Resolutions. We invaded Iraq on the pretext it was a rogue country in violation of 16 UN Resolutions. What about having the courage to do the same with Israel? Or is Israel above the law, as it consistently proves with its behavior it is?

Shegay,

Don't hold your breath. Israel matters far more than anyone else in the region for the United States due to our military alliances, trade, and shared Western backgrounds.

Hannity n Colmes,

Have you ever been outside our borders? I grew up my entire life overseas in Asia, the Middle East, and Latin America. I encourage you to go to the Middle East and try to become "friends" with your average man in the street. Good luck! BTW since when was political power in any country undirected by money, power, and self-interest. When you find an example get back to me. Idealists drive me nuts!!!

If all you Israeli haters out there really want to beef about the origins of the state, might I suggest the British as a suitable target for your rhetorical aggression. After all, is was they who created the Jewish state in the Levant and it was for the advancement of their own interests not as a favor to the Jewish people. (Like anyone would elect to start a new country in a hot desert with little to no water.)

Also, the moment the British declared it so the Arabs around them attacked and attempted to annihilate them. Way to get to know your neighbor, huh? I believe, " Could I borrow a cup of sugar?" would have been a better idea.

Lastly,

People. Just because the US sells arms to Israel does not make us responsible for their use of them. We sell arms to LOTS of countries around the world. It is a way of rewarding friends for their cooperation.

The Russians sold arms to Iraq, Iran, Syria, Eqypt, Vietnam, China, etc. but do you hear us blaming them when those countries use them?? We may not like it but we hold the owners responsible not the manufacturers. Think logically not emotionally. It's a business pure and simple.

Olney, MD--

Thanks for your intelligence and insight on this site. Wish there were more people like you commenting!

Stephaine, "Gaza is not occupied! Israel pulled out of there quite awhile ago."

Another Israeli talking point. Israeli troops regularly enter and exit Gaza on the whim. The roads are still blockaded, military checkpoints are still awash, starvation and blockade of Gazans is relentless since the ascent to power of Hamas; and you say Gaza is not occupied? It might be seem so militarily but economically, politically, humanitarian-wise it has always been occupied. Just ask the farmer whose Olive tree groves was stolen to create a 'buffer zone,' just as Golan and Sheeba farms were in the north?

Jon M,

So it's the final solution for Islam and any Arab, persian, African, Chinese, Indian, Southeast Asians, American or anyone else for that matter that does not renounce it.

Let me ask, do you want to go the spanish inquisition route there or do you want to skip over the attempts to convert them to whatever the hell type of religion you follow that condones such behavior and just kill them outright. (I'm sure religion is a really good religion despite that little failing)

Needless to say , you are a moron. Take your WWIII and and war against the evil Muslims and try to sell it to fox news or how about the world wrestling federation, an organization that has a great deal more credibility than you do.

I know the world can be confusing place and sometimes fantasies about just blowing up all of your magined enemies can help relieve certain tensions. But cultured people engage in that type of behavior in the privacy of their own bedrooms or bathrooms, and not in the presence of other people capable of actually understanding a few things about the way the world actually works.

J

"It is ruthless, vicious (as the movie Munich can attest)"
Hahahahaha! Wow. Argument based on a fictional narrative. Please tell me you have something better.

olney,

israel is more useful to the us when she is a good world citizen. remember the good will that came her way after the gaza withdrawal?

the american executive, legislature and courts once sanctioned slavery too.

Stephanie
The question again
1)Whats the justification for the israels refusal to let palestinian refugees back to their homes.
2)Whats the justification for the settlements that are in West Bank built on Palestinian land.
3)Gaza is occupied Its called maximum control minimum responsibilty. It cannot control its borders it cannot control its air waves. Its occupied for all practical purposes.Remember it was called disengagment.
4)Whats was the justification for israels settlements in Gaza for thirty years.
5) You know what peole in west bank cannot travel ffrom one end to the other in there own territory( in there own land whats left of it ). They have to have special passes for them. I mean the list goes on and on. The water in gaza that people drink is harmful for corn to be grown in california.
Look Stephanie have the courage to accept whats wrong. I accept that what Hizbullah did was wrong.

Posted by: PeaceForAll | July 19, 2006 01:29 AM

Name:

Comments:
Stephanie
The question again
1)Whats the justification for the israels refusal to let palestinian refugees back to their homes.
2)Whats the justification for the settlements that are in West Bank built on Palestinian land.
3)Gaza is occupied Its called maximum control minimum responsibilty. It cannot control its borders it cannot control its air waves. Its occupied for all practical purposes.Remember it was called disengagment.
4)Whats was the justification for israels settlements in Gaza for thirty years.
5) You know what peole in west bank cannot travel ffrom one end to the other in there own territory( in there own land whats left of it ). They have to have special passes for them. and it has been since for thrity years long before there were any suicide bombimgs. I mean the list goes on and on. The water in gaza that people drink is harmful for corn to be grown in california.
Look Stephanie have the courage to accept whats wrong. I accept that what Hizbullah did was wrong. All this suicide killings are absolutely wrong but so is what Israel has been doing for the past thirty years.

>>Hannity n Colmes, it seems like you blame pretty much half of the US population for America's support of Israel ("pro-Israeli Jews and Soutern Baptist Evangelical Protestants," "the Zionist Evangelicals and their neoconservative ilk," "Newt Gingrich, Franklin Graham, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Sean Hannity, druggie Limbaugh").

Pretty much half?
It's time to take out the dictionary or almanac and do some bed time research before you have more Zionist dreams of Ertz Israel.

Soutern Baptist Evangelicals comprise 16 million (5.3%) of the Population but still the largest Protestant group. And the Jews 6 million (2% of the populace), of which about 60% are die-hard Israeli apologists.

So doing the math, 5.3 + 2.0 = 8.3% of the population. 1/5th of even half!

>>I encourage you to go to the Middle East and try to become "friends" with your average man in the street. Good luck!

I have and that is why I am driven insane by our pro-Israeli hijacked foreign policy!
I have many Jewish friends, Jewish professors, etc. they all seem reasonable until you mention the Israeli injustice then all of a sudden they take on this "defensive" mode of being the "victim." Unless the Jews stop thinking they are the only ones who can be "victims" and hold a monopoly on that title; I think It'll be very difficult to understand this problem through the eyes of the "other."

But until then, NO MORE AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS should be subsidized for Israeli weapons and bombs to terrorize its neighbors. Now we are talking about open war against Iran, a country which can potentially turn the entire ME into flames, including Iraq. That's precisely what the neocon, pro-Israeli warhawks wanted all along. And that is why Iraq was invaded, not because of oil soley, but for Israel-bidding, and the military-industrial complex.

Everything must be understood in its legitimate context.

I would just like to know why no one holds Yassir Arafat responsible for much of the present-day situation of the Palestinians. Where's the accountability for the millions and millions of dollars he pilfered from his people? What did he actually do to help these people rise from their poverty? Yes, he kept the Palestinian cause alive, fueling hatred while appearing to reach for peace with the Israelis. The Palestinians have never had good leadership, and that's part of the reason the Israelis have been unable to work with them to build lasting peace. You can't just give land to your neighbors when their charter calls for your destruction. Yes, it really does. Have you ever read the Palestinian National Covenant? It's never been changed and still calls for the destruction of Israel.

What about Jordan, which has a huge population of citizens of Palestinian descent? What has Jordan done to help out the Palestinian cause?

No, it's just easier to blame Israel. We all know why.

A military establishment that drops a 500-pound bomb on a residential apartment building in the middle of the night and kills 14 sleeping civilians, as happened in Gaza four years ago, is not a military that operates by civilized rules.

A military establishment that drops a 500-pound bomb on a house in the middle of the night and kills a man and his wife and seven of their children, as happened in Gaza four days ago, is not the military of a moral country.

A society that can brush off as unimportant an army officer's brutal murder of a 13-year-old girl on the claim that she threatened soldiers at a military post -- one of nearly 700 Palestinian children murdered by Israelis since the intifada began -- is not a society with a conscience.

A government that imprisons a 15-year-old girl -- one of several hundred children in Israeli detention -- for the crime of pushing and running away from a male soldier trying to do a body search as she entered a mosque is not a government with any moral bearings. (This story, not the kind that ever appears in the U.S. media, was reported in the London Sunday Times. The girl was shot three times as she ran away and was convicted to 18 months in prison after she came out of a coma.)

http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.org/

My apologies, Hannity n Colmes. Here I was perhaps foolishly expecting that you understood that I was exaggerating (there's a good word for you to look up). You'll notice I didnt bother to bust out the numbers. Should have been a clue.
You may want to note that it's more than just the Jews and Southern Protestants who are pro-Israel. Just today Hillary Clinton (not jewish, not a religious christian) declared her support of Israel's actions. This, of course, is not counting the myriad of senators and congressmen (likewise not jewish or southern christian) who believe that Israel is morally right (or the majority of the American public). Perhaps you ought to expand your own categoriziation of pro-Israel individuals.

Speaking of solving the political problem depends on what you mean by "solving". To the Jhadists, the problem is that Israel exists (and that Europe and the United States exist). Offered a state several besides Israel times, Palestinians have preferred continuing terror in their quest to Israel. Israel has tried again and again to resettle Palestinian refugees in modern cities, but it is the Arab states who have refused this and have turned Palestinians into a welfare people supported in refugee camps by foreign aid under UN auspices, for political purposes. A political solution requires willingness on both sides. The Palestinian people, in electing the genocidal Hamas immediately after Israel's Gaza withdrawal, have spoken their opinion most eloquently. No one likes or wants continual wars, just as no one likes or wants continually building dams to keep out the sea. But, if you live in Holland you build dams, and if you live in Israel, you fight wars. Holland intends NOT to drown, and Israel intends NOT to be annihilated.

Hezbollah, Hamas and their supporters seek the complete destruction of Israel. This is THE problem, the root cause for all the suffering of Palestinians and Lebanese. The core problem is NOT "occupation" of the West Bank, of Gaza, or of Golan Heights. It is not the Israeli attacks against militants in Gaza or Lebanon. Arabs, do you TRULY seek peace for your Palestinian brothers? If so the path is clear... support Israel's existence and follow GANDHI'S path of peaceful resistance, and the universe will bring the Palestinians and Lebanese great influence and peace. Alternatively, you can continue to seek the destruction of Israel, in which case you will invite and experience only pain, suffering and destruction. It is YOUR choice. CHOOSE WISELY.

PeaceForAll:

Let me remind you that the Palestinians were offered a reasonable land deal back in 1948, which THEY refused. From that point forward, they fought with the Israelis over territory. Did you really expect the Israelis to just hand over the land to people who wanted to annihilate them??? In addition, the Palestinians were told by other Arab nations to squat the land until they "liberated" them and the land from Israel.

In 1967, when Israel's surrounding "neighbors" all attacked Israel at one time, Israel captured the territory IN SELF DEFENSE. You keep forgetting that the sole ambition of the Palestinians has been to DESTROY Israel all these years. It's written into their covenant. It's been one of the sticking points all these years that they haven't re-worded their covenant to remove that language and accept Israel's right to exist AT ALL. Forget which borders - - - how about its right to exist at all as a country that the rest of the world accepts?

I'm guessing that Israel must keep a close watch on Gaza due to the constant terrorist activites that go on there. Haven't you heard about the tunnels that are dug to smuggle weapons in?

Gaza was a gesture from Israel, a concession, that should have been the start of the Palestinian people's move toward independence as a nation. Instead, they voted in a terrorist organization that will continue to agitate Israel and kill innocent people.

I wish you could grasp the concept that land will NOT bring peace as long as there are Israelis (read Jews) in that region.

Just 2 questions:

1)How many jews vote in US elections, and what % are Republican?

2)What's all this about N.Korean rockets, can they really send them to the Middle East?

Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person.

And now Israel wants more. In a meeting at the White House late last month, Israeli officials made a pitch for $4 billion in additional military aid to defray the rising costs of dealing with the intifada and suicide bombings. They also asked for more than $8 billion in loan guarantees to help the country's recession-bound economy.

Considering Israel's deep economic troubles, one doubts the Israel bonds covered by the loan guarantees will ever be repaid. The bonds are likely to be structured so they don't pay interest until they reach maturity. The US would end up paying both principal and interest, perhaps 10 years out.

Israel is the largest recipient of US foreign aid. It is already due to get $2.04 billion in military assistance and $720 million in economic aid in fiscal 2003. It has been getting $3 billion a year for years.

Adjusting the official aid to 2001 dollars in purchasing power, Israel has been given $240 billion since 1973, Stauffer reckons. In addition, the US has given Egypt $117 billion and Jordan $22 billion in foreign aid in return for signing peace treaties with Israel.

What about us ? the taxpayers ???

Where are the moderates in this debate? Radical Islamic terrorists are evil, but Israel overreacted. Israel is probably making things worse in the end but that's their problem. Well, actually it's everyone's problem - Arab states, Palestinians, the U.S...

"1)How many jews vote in US elections, and what % are Republican?"
What does it matter? You think only Jews care about Israel? I can assure you that there are non-Jews who can see plainly what is going on in the region.

Emmanual Hyman -

Very well put!!! I agree completely!

Moneytalks -

Where are you getting your statistics? Some of your assertions are very incorrect.

So, the Jews are smart & wealthy, no doubt about that. Then, they can find a new & under developed land and start fresh. The UN can find them one. There's a lot of undeveloped areas that the world can benefit. No more killings, no more excuses from anybody. No more blame on history or the British. Why waste time fighting. Don't tell me about history or sacred things in Israel. No more excuse & think about the future. Just go & do it. See what happen. Otherwise, the Jews will be suffering for a long, long time. It's proven historically and even now. So, make a change. They are smart, they have money.

"Israel is the largest recipient of US foreign aid."
You're right. But guess who's number 2? Egypt (at least, up until a couple of years ago).

THE CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html

Suppose there are 10 terrorists and you kill 5, how many terrorists will there be?

Matt:

"So, the Jews are smart & wealthy, no doubt about that. Then, they can find a new & under developed land and start fresh. The UN can find them one. There's a lot of undeveloped areas that the world can benefit. No more killings, no more excuses from anybody. No more blame on history or the British. Why waste time fighting. Don't tell me about history or sacred things in Israel. No more excuse & think about the future. Just go & do it. See what happen. Otherwise, the Jews will be suffering for a long, long time. It's proven historically and even now. So, make a change. They are smart, they have money."

You are the most blatant anti-Semite I've encountered in ages. You ought to be ashamed of yourself! I am curious to know why you really feel this way about Jewish people. I feel sorry for you.

What you suggest is absurd. Have you actually gotten an education? Do you understand that Judaism predated Christianity and Islam? That the Jews have biblical claims to Jerusalem and many other areas in the region that is now Israel? What piece of land are you offering so that all the Israelis can relocate?

I would almost assume that you are joking, but sadly, I think you are serious. It's pathetic.

matt,
Cant you read a book? You think there was a state in "palestine" before Israel was established? It was a British mandate full of non-descript arabs of no "nationality". Before that it was part of the Ottoman empire, not independent. The only thing resembling a state in Israel from the time of the Romans to 1948 were the Christian Crusader kingdoms. Figure it out. The Jews didnt "take" anyone's land.

Olney, MD-

"Don't hold your breath. Israel matters far more than anyone else in the region for the United States due to our military alliances, trade, and shared Western backgrounds."

An alliance we clearly don't need with the likes of Jonathon Pollard. The bottom line is that the common denominator in any American-directe terrorist attack is the American-Israeli relationship. So the question becomes; do we need Israel as an ally in the war on terror or are they the reason we are involved in a war on terror?

One must wonder why a "western" democracy like Iceland never has to bother with terrorists.

"We sell arms to LOTS of countries around the world. It is a way of rewarding friends for their cooperation."

Our cooperation with Israel goes well beyond the logical limits of rewarding reasonable cooperation. They receive the most funds from any country in the world yet provide fairly little in return; nevermind that the British government supports us with actual troops and military funding yet receive considerably less in international aid. AND all countries (barring Israel) receive their American charity in increments... so the Israelis alone can enjoy interest off our overwhelmingly generous welfare to their country.

One must wonder why we are allies at all with Israel who has proven itself a back stabbing ally in peacetimes and an utterly incompetent one during warfare. What do we possibly gain from a military alliance with Israel besides widespread animosity throughout the Islamic world? The axiom "your enemy's enemy is your ally" only works in so far as your enemy has a good reason to hate you besides you being their enemy's ally! And yet we are reminded after each terrorist attack that the REASON we are targeted (and Sweden, Iceland, Belgium, Switzerland, New Zealand... are not) is because of our cooperation with Israel.

"The Russians sold arms to Iraq, Iran, Syria, Eqypt, Vietnam, China, etc. but do you hear us blaming them when those countries use them?? We may not like it but we hold the owners responsible not the manufacturers. Think logically not emotionally. It's a business pure and simple."

Brilliant example. So how did that funding work out for the former USSR?

It's not a matter of who WE hold responsible, but of who the funded hold responsible. So while you might bat an eyelash over our former funding of Osama Bin Ladin, the rest of us have to wonder what possible utility there was in supporting him against the Ruskies in Afghanistan.

Or reasonable people might wonder why on earth we paid Saddam to fight the likes of Chalabi and Maliki and their ilk in the 80s, yet we hand the keys of Iraq to our former Iranian refugees enemies: the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq and the Islamist Dawa Party (who now hold a majority of seats in the Iraqi parliament).

So it isn't just a "matter of business" but rather a matter of decisions that have consequences which you apparently don't have any concept of. For the Russians the problem was they spent themselves into irrelevancy by pumping billions of military supplies into each and every potential enemy which eventually starved the state and forced their collapse. For us we pump money into undeserving spies who invade their allies and enrage 1+ billion Muslims worldwide into a Jihad against us so that a 6 million person state can enjoy an unearned Security Council veto vote from a global power with 300 million people.

stephanie,

nice try. get some rest. the americans did not wait to blame hirohito for the plight of the japanese, they helped them to their feet. i have said it a thousand times, general sharon et al do not have the pedigree of marshall and macarthur. it takes political will to make a just peace.

the jewish nation if fooled by its apparent military superiority. the same arrogance that's drowning w.

Egypt ? a US puppet ....no wonder

"I can assure you that there are non-Jews who can see plainly what is going on in the region."

The most influential group of non-jews that strongly supports Israel are the Rapture crowd. Protestant fundamentalists who believe that before they can be raptured all Jews have to return to Palestine and then convert to Christinity.

Captain Video,
I cant speak to which group constitutes the "most infleuntial" group of non-Jews in this country (even if one could really guage "infleunce" in this regard). But I also know that of millions of Americans (who are neither Jewish nor fundamentalist christians) support Israel.

Let me go point by point to your assertions. Also to be clear, I support a Palestinian State. Not the PA but a real state based upon commonly agreed upon definitions of that staehood. Playing the victim gets old. If they really wanted to better themselves they would have moved. Oh but that's right even their Arab neighbors don't want them. Good, solid friends they got huh?

1. Organizations DO NOT, repeat DO NOT have anything near the cohesion of states.
Please see REAL IRA example from #2. In addition. the only examples where a non-state actor has held to any agreements has been when it has been folded back into the state. I will assume you forgot to look at the splinter groups of the Palestinian movement who can't even agree among themselves, i.e. Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa Martyrs, Hamas, the PLO, Hezbollah, etc, etc. I believe I have made my point

Next,

2. Ahhh, but you do not understand. When a State dissolves or secedes it is based upon the commonly held aspirations or beliefs of the nation that makes up the state and is rarely done due to its difficulty. Disaffected members of society cannot just up an secede. Try it someday. Everyone will look at you funny and laugh and wonder what hole you crawled out of. A weak state may have numerous forces at work, often at loggerheads, see Pakistan. And that is what makes them so dangerous and unpredictable. You never know what side you are doing business with.

Next,

3. I see you made no comments...

Next,

4. Again TRUE. I hardly think you using a movie is a strong argument. Methinks Netflix has you by the balls.

As to its ruthlessness, of course state-sponsored violence is ruthless. I never said it wasn't. It is meant to be that way. That is why it is a deterrent. It is however enacted by a commonly understood law. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Are you suggesting Israel should have done nothing in response to the assassination of its ATHLETES <----- We're talking ATHLETES!!!! At games meant to symbolize the goodwill of man no less. Have they no shame?

Also, Overwhelming force is the only way one should enact stae violence. To do otherwise risks the lives of your people and makes a conflict drag on and possibly escalate to bring in others. A swift kill is a merciful kill. No, the mother of all ironies is that you are talking about something you have obviously never experienced first hand yet pretend to know about. If Lebanon did respond, I think we both know what would happen. This is why they haven't. War first??? Uhmmm, what planet are you on and do they have TV there? Hezbollah is NOT the government, merely one minority (albeit powerful)party in its parliament. That is like saying the Democartic Party IS the government, HA!!If it WAS the Lebanese government the Lebanese Army would be fighting the Israeli military machine as we type. Therefore, Hezbollah has NO legitimacy and while it may be popular amongst a certain segment of the country I wouldn't call it widespread by any means. A Hezbollah rally in Beirut drew a couple HUNDRED cars waving flags. How widespread is that?

Next,

5. Israel has not flouted anything meaningful. The 61 UN Resolutions you are referring to were those passed by the General Assembly not the Security Council. Hence binding perhaps as much as the resolution to eliminate poverty by 2020. Yeah, OK. Whatever. The UN is worse than useless. I won't argue we used those resolutions as cover, we did. They were, however, passed by the Security Council which gave them teeth and some semblance of adherence to international norms.

In sum, my point is not that States are perfect rather they are better than loose amorphous "organizations". FYI non-state actors or proxies is the proper teminology.

Shegay K. -

It takes more than political will to make a just peace. It takes people who are committed to the process. People who actually respect the other side and don't call for its destruction, as the Palestinian National Covenant does in reference to Israel. Come on already. Face the facts.

>>Just today Hillary Clinton (not jewish, not a religious christian) declared her support of Israel's actions. This, of course, is not counting the myriad of senators and congressmen (likewise not jewish or southern christian) who believe that Israel is morally right (or the majority of the American public

Which proves my point quite precisely.
The fact that a major Democratic Senator, and a war-hawk like Bush against Iraq (might I add for Israel's security) and the rest of all the puppet Senators and Congressman parrot Israel's line just proves yet again how entrenched AIPAC's grip of Washington power really is. I mean Congressmen and women vie to get a speaking slot to its annual convention, including top officials of Bush administration like Rice, Cheney, and Bush himself. This after AIPAC and its top member was under investigation for espionage for Israel against US.

The fact of the matter is, you won't see ANY ELECTED offical be brave enough to publicly criticize Israel lest they risk endangering their political life.

As was the case with two well known and well-respected Harvard and Univeristy of Chicago academians whose reputation was slurred by the pro-Israeli smear machine after they dare claim as a fundamental right to free speech, that horrors of all horrors, "American policy is tilted towards Israel," not because of some moral conviction but because of political dollars and powerful influence many Jewish organizations exerts over Washington policy vis a vis Israel. Suddently Alan Dershowitz of Harvard, the senile, relexive "law professor" went on to character assassinate one of his own at Harvard for being an "anti-Semite."

Therefore, the fact that the US vetoes the mildest of criticism against Israel at the UN, or passess lobsided resolutions 400-1, 390-22, etc in favor of "standing with the people of Israel," against "terrorist Hamas" just goes to prove the point of how biased and hypocritical our politicians in Washington from both sides of the aile are. I wouldn't blame them, if my political life was also in jeopardy.

http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9314

During the first crusade, the western powers managed to capture Jerusalem from the Muslims and set up the Christian Kingdom of Jerusalem. For a time it had the military superiority and was able to hold the Muslim world off. But the Muslim world never accepted this and eventually managed to recapture Jerusalem. The western powers were unable to stop this and failed, in the third crusade to reestablish the Christian kingdom. Saladin, who accomplished this is still a great hero among the Muslims. Israel should not assume that it will always have the military superiority and the unquestioned support of the United States. There are a lot more Muslims in the middle east than Israilies. Israel must work out accommodations with the Muslim world now, while it still has the superiority. That cannot be done with the iron fist and requires making concessions.

Olney, MD

When countries who begin to work against the US interersts and principles ask for funding, weapons and diplomatic support, they are usually denied until they turn their behavior around.

Israel should have been cut off many years ago (around 67) until such time as they quit the occupation and most importantly quit every single settlement.

I feel that would be justified based on the the existance of the settlements alone, but now that we have been vistited with 9/11 due in large part to the Israeli settler movement and our tacit and not so tacit support of it, It is more importnat than ever.

I'm sure you know many Israelis hate the settlements so please don't pretend to be shocked and indignant that I attribute arab and muslim terrorism directly to the Israeli settler movement.

I for one would like to see Israel gain peace and prosperity and the only way that will ever happen is if the US cuts off all support to Israel until they comply with the policies that our country has at least officially maintained for the last 40 years regarding the settlements.

The settlements are morally reprehensible, run by people who make the KKK look like the NAACP in comparison, and are one of the single largest causes of middle eastern terrorism that the US has any ability to do something about. It's time to tear them down to the ground and move the security wall back over the green line. Only then will this madness begin to recede into history .

But in the mean time, the settlers and their supporters continue to drag their feet and forstall the inevitable regardless of how many innocent Jews, Palestinians, Americans and now Lebanese die as the result of their morally bankrupt (and crushingly expensive) behavior.

So, if we were to do the right thing, we save three to six billion a year by cutting of the welfare to the settlements. Then we start to save a portion of the trillions of dollars we would have spent in the subsequent years as the effect of the end of the settlement movement begins to reduce muslim terrorism world wide. America would gain the moral highground again and we could put all that money towards developing renewable energy.
I pray it happens sooner than later.

J

Stephanie,

You are what we call a pro-Israeli apologist, never to see any wrong done by the Jewish state.

Your reflexive pro-Israeli support is reminicient of many American Jews who are taught to love the country that "God gave us," irrespective of the fact of whether it is in the right or wrong.

To you it can never be in the wrong. It should be a matter of principle and justice. Support it by all means when its in the right but condemn it when its in the wrong. Wouldn't that what Yahweh would say? Or do you take Israel as being higher than Yahweh himself?

stephanie,

let israel impose a just peace on the palestinians and you will see the goodwill and accolade that will come her way, not to talk of prosperity for the her people and the region. its doable, you must admit

Stephanie
In 1948 they were 60 percent of the polutaion offered 40 percent of the land which you called "reasonable deal".
Second of all Your likud party also has vowed never ever to let a Palestinian state form. Its in there "covenant "you see. The aggressions that Israel is doing which I stated before absolutely has no justification. Jews have been living there for centuries. There were no suicide bombings back then.
Like i said Stephanie . Killings of innocent civillians(Isrealii or Arab ) is absolutly wrong and so are the settlements in west bank, occupation of palestinain land and the refusal of palestinians refugees to come back home.
It seems you just dont have that courage to accept whats right. and thats the problem with both the Arabs and Israelis.

No, Shegay, I don't see it at all. When the suicide bombings end, and the Palestinians are ready to accept Israel as their neighbor, maybe there will be an opportunity for peace.

"But I also know that of millions of Americans (who are neither Jewish nor fundamentalist christians) support Israel."

This is due to the ability of the Israel lobby and Israel's supporters making sure that Americans only get to hear the Israeli side of the issue. Anybody that speaks on the behalf of the Palestinians is immediately slandered and slimed and accused of being anti-semetic.

In order to see the Palestinian side of the issue, engage in the following thought experiment:

Suppose somebody invaded your home and evicted you from it.

Would you not try as hard as you can to get your home back?

Would you recognize the right of the people who evicted you to keep your home?

If the people who evicted you claimed that they have the right to live in your home because God granted it to them and base this on the fact that THEIR prophets said so, when your prophet disagrees, would you be impressed by that argument?

If you fired at the people living in you home would you consider yourself morally justified? Would you reject accusations by others that you are a terrorist?

Everyone talks about moving Israel to Europe but it would be better to move the palestinians to jordan or saudi arabia or even to Iran as they care for each other so much.Muslims are so ignorant about everything in life but I guess it all begins with children seeing their Father's with three different wives that they are emotionally scarred for life.Life is so bad for these people that they all turn sucide bombers expecting virgin women as reward when they reach heaven.How stupid is that. Muslims should understand that a better life is possible for them.All Israel can do is knock some sense into them by force but this shouldnt be their job.

Now again you make excuses. The use of "Anti-Semite" word, historical, religions, etc, whatever excuses. What you want to do is to make all kind of reasons for whatever the Jews are doing. The Jews are smart & wealthy people and yet they are still fighting with stupid & poor Arab's people.

No land? With the money in the world, with the intelligence that the Jews has, no land? They don't want better future? They want to live in terror all the time? Think!

stephanie,

where would we be today if instead of a policy of occupation, isreal had built schools, mosques, churches and penitentiaries in the territories? had to imagine, isn't it.

"All Israel can do is knock some sense into them by force"

That is indeed an illusion. All Israel is doing to further radicalize the Muslim world.

"That the Jews have biblical claims to Jerusalem and many other areas in the region that is now Israel?"

But those claims are based on things said by JEWISH prophets, hardly a group of objective, unbiased observers. Of course your own prophets are going to justify what you are doing.

AO,

First of all please don't try and steal my name. Let's go over this. You are AO, and I am "response to AO." Not too hard now is it.

To respond:

1) Organizations DO NOT, repeat DO NOT have anything near the cohesion of states.
Please see REAL IRA example from #2.

I did look at your example and I sunk theories into your hold with the example of state being fractured when there are palpable differences.

No one is asserting that "organizations" are more cohesive than nation-states. But we are not arguing about state cohesion are we? We are talking about state terrorism being equivalent to organizational terror to which I repeat STATE TERRORISM is worse since it is supposed to be the more responsible and "adult" player; and when it is not, it becomes worse than random acts of terrrorism precisely because it is held ot higher standards of conduct.

>>In addition. the only examples where a non-state actor has held to any agreements has been when it has been folded back into the state. I will assume you forgot to look at the splinter groups of the Palestinian movement who can't even agree among themselves, i.e. Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa Martyrs, Hamas, the PLO, Hezbollah, etc, etc. I believe I have made my point.

Yes you have, but your folly is not differentiating between their shared goals for a Palestinian state, free and independent of Israeli state terrorism and interference. They are all political groups with quasi-milias to go with it. Thus in the Palestinian Parliament, they are all free to run and hold seats. Thus Palestine would be a nation state if it were not for Bush's and Israel's blockade of that from coming to fruition. Bush talks of 2 state solution but there is a wide gap between his rhetoric and action. He hasn't prodded Israel ONCE to move in that direction, not once! Why? Israeli officals cynically respond "Terrorism must be stopped first?" How can you expect a gov't whose security forces you have smashed and destroyed to control the very militias you want to stop?

Even if there was a two state; it won't be in security with Israel. Israel can just invade it as it did Lebanon and destroy all the infrastructure which takes billions to make.

Besides labeling Hezbollah as "Palestinian movement" is the ultimate folly!

>>When a State dissolves or secedes it is based upon the commonly held aspirations or beliefs of the nation that makes up the state and is rarely done due to its difficulty.

Doesn't make sense. Surely the Confederate states seceded due to the difficulty they found themselves competeing to have their voices heard in Congress when it came to issues they cared profoundly about like Slavery. That's when they took arms against their own nation and seceded from the union. Yes, an individual cannot sedede directly; but no one's to stop him from taking arms and fighting (which isn't as bad as an entire states taking arms against its union states), you know "individual/orgainzational vs. state terrorism."

>>srael has not flouted anything meaningful. The 61 UN Resolutions you are referring to were those passed by the General Assembly not the Security Council.

NO THEY ARE 61 UN SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS THAT ISRAEL IS IN GROSS VIOLATION OF SINCE ITS DESPICABLE CREATION THRU TERROR againt the Brits might I add. Which makes Israel the oldest and the worst rogue state of 'em all.

"The Jews didnt "take" anyone's land."

This is a rediculous argument. The fact that there was no Palestinian state does not change the fact that the Palestinian people had been living on this land for generations and that they were dispossed by Israel.

This original sin, the dispossession of the Palestinian PEOPLE, that occured when the state of Israel was founded is the source of all the problems in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

J,

I also don't like the settler movement and the construction of needless settlements that don't do anyone any good except for the settlers themselves.

Disagree, however, that Israel should not recieve funding from the US. They have gotten the message and are slowly dismantling the sttlements that it cannot consolidate into Jerusalem.

One of our Sydney dailies today ran a photo of little Israeli girls writing messages on shells to be dropped on Lebanon. I was disgusted to my core. Those shells are being dropped on a defenceless nation and are killing defenceless civilians, many of them children. What hope can there be for a nation that encourages such hate in its innocents? The article points out 86 per cent of Israelis support the attacks. God help them because nothing on Earth can. They are lost.

CaptainVideo,

By your logic the United States has committed the original sin against the Native American tribes that existed here before us. Hence, we are, as a nation doomed to experience the "justified" attacks of all those of Native American descent.

Every country on Earth has dispossessed another at one point or another. We just don't fight about it still. We move one.

Response to AO,

OOOOPPPSS!! Sorry about that. I must have somehow posted in your name. Didn't mean to though. It wasn't AO. It was me. Again, apologies.

We are not talking about "state-terrorism". We are talking about state sponsered violence. "terrorism" is in the eye of the beholder. All violence is meant to create terror. That is what makes it so powerful. It may seem like semantics but its not. What Hezbollah and Hamas call terror, the Israelis call justice. What Israel calls "terrorism", Hamas and Hezbollah call resistance. It all comes down to violence and its usage.

I meant "move on". See what happens when its late and you need to catch some ZZZZZs. Good night everyone. It has been a pleasure to trade arguments and commentary.

Israel is in the wrong, once again violating International Law as it expertly plays the victim. Stop your state sponsored assassinations. Release the 10,000 Muslim prisoners or charge them. Get out of the West Bank and stop colonizing conquered land using American treasure and weapons. May God have mercy on your souls for you shall reap the whirlwind.

Blood is Blood!

Jews or Muslims both have right to live. Please don't blame any religion for this war. this is a war to be a Dominating power in the world and it is between USA and China/Russia, not between these gulf countries.

Where is UN now? what are they doing? just opening NGOs in small countries?

They are so weak that no one wants to listen them not even USA or Russia. EU is doing nothing for world peace.

What is happening in Lebanon now will only increase terrorism on the long run. More hatred and desperation is developing. Both sides are totally irrational and nothing could come out of this that could lead to peace. What we are seeing on both sides are images of civilians killed and each side is getting more convinced of their cause. The international community is deliberately watching all this and passively helping both sides to worsen the situation. The worst thing is that the west is going to pay the most. There seems to be no end to that it is so sad.

http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.org/
Some people on this blog might like these pics or get aroused by the display of barbarism.

"Hence, we are, as a nation doomed to experience the "justified" attacks of all those of Native American descent."

The United State has handled this differently. The Indians are U.S. citizens with the full rights and obligations of citizenship. They can stay on the reservations if they want to, or, as many have, move to any part of the United States.

For example, the area in which I lived was part of the Cherokee's land. Any Cherokee is free to move back to this area and buy land. He could even rent an apartment in the apartment house in which I live.

These days it has become increasingly fashionable to attack weak countries that cannot defend themselves. Nice young pilots of fighter jets have an opportunity to drop bombs wherever they are ordered, to massacre civilians without any danger of being shot down, and return to their beloved family as a hero.

We are returning to the stone age: the strong one with the bigest stick takes the belongings of the weak. The only new element is that now he proclaims that he does this in the name of God. And, of course, to defend himself from imminent threats.

Greed and stupidity become dominant. Killings lead to more killings. Nations, like individuals, become irrational and arrogant as soon as they become richer, stronger (and hence "better") than others.

The only remedy that history knows is a good kick in the a$$.

I AM WRITING TO YOU FROM NORTHERN ISRAEL. AS YOU ARE WELL AWARE, THE SITUATION HERE IS EXTREMELY BAD. I AM AMERICAN CITZEN LIVING IN ZEFAT, NORTHERN ISRAEL. I CANNOT LEAVE BECAUSE MY NEW BORN SON IS IN THE ZEFAT HOSPITAL. HE WAS BORN 3 MONTHS EARLY AND IS IN A INCUBATOR. ALL THE OTHER HOSPITALS IN ISRAEL THAT DEAL WITH PRE-MATURE BABIES ARE FULL CAPACITY AND THEREFORE HE CANNOT BE MOVED. TWO NIGHTS AGO ON MONDAY JULY 17 AT APPROXMITELY 9PM THE HOSPITAL WAS HIT BY A ROCKET.
THE REASON I AM WRITING TO YOU IS THAT I WISH THE WHOLE WORLD KNOW THAT THESE HIZBALLAH ARE NOT FIGHTING A NORMAL WAR PRESCRIBED BY THE GENEVA CONVENTION WHERE ITS STATED THAT IN THE TIME OF WAR NO HOSPITALS SHALL COME UNDER ATTACK. WELL THEY HAVE IN FACT BOMBED THE HOSPITAL HERE AND G-D FORBID MAY DO IT AGAIN. PLEASE ALERT THE PRESS OF THIS URGENT MATTER A.S.A.P

THANK YOU

SINCERLY,
DAVID LEVI
972.52.306.3323

After scanning the replies to the column, it is apparent that Stephanie and a few others suffer from a severe case of "ego encephalitis!" Make your point, and have the dignity, maturity and intelligence to remain silent while others make their point!

I think that the rest of the world should give Israel all the money they need to keep their fight going until all their neighbors are mortally afraid to be hostile to them anymore. Then, Israel needs to build their fence taller, and thicker, too. It's sad, but peace is something negotiated between rational people, and I don't think that's what there is there...

WAKE UP AMERICA, THE ZIONISTS ARE RAPING YOU!!

Some amusing and very demonstrable lies upthread:

"Israel is not purposefully bombing Lebanese civilians and/or the Lebanese Govt. property."

"[Palestine] was a British mandate full of non-descript arabs of no 'nationality'."

"Just because the US sells arms to Israel does not make us responsible for their use of them."

Etc.

Are these people --hizballa, hamas, iran, osama, european islamists, etc.-- fanatic jihadists or not? Do they hate only jews and israel or do they hate you as infidel as well?
Hopefully israel will lead in defeating this communist-like, nazi-like worldwide jihad craziness.

"I WISH THE WHOLE WORLD KNOW THAT THESE HIZBALLAH ARE NOT FIGHTING A NORMAL WAR PRESCRIBED BY THE GENEVA CONVENTION"

- DAVID LEVI

What an idiot!

LOL...

19.07.2006

Make love, not war?
But how can you make love when you don't have a partner?
How can you avoid war when you're under an attack?
Should you not attack back?
Should you sit down and talk? Work things out?
Should you sit still and wait for everything to correct itself?
MAYBE. Maybe in a different situation ,where both sides want peace.
But what if one side doesn't want peace? What if one side enjoys seeing the sufferings on the other side? Discussing. Sharing. Caring. Loving. - Will never take the place of war. So even the side that really wants peace will have to attack- not to hurt. To protect!

For ALL people who doesn't live in Israel or Lebanon (specially politicians and news reporters):
It is easy to say "they are right", "they are wrong" and it's true that people from outside who are not emotionally involved will have a more objective view, a clearer picture...
What is NOT true is that -
As long as you don't know every side of the conflict,
As long as you don't know each side's history,
As long as you're not feeling what every side is feeling
As long as you can't feel the hurt and pain- YOU are the last people on earth (!) who can make such a decision!!
This is not just a fight you can easily take sides- this is a matter of life and death!!

I'm not protecting any side now, all I'm saying is don't be a hero, don't act like you have all the answers, because even if you really wanted to -you cannot imagine what we are going threw!

Sharon, 21
Israel

israel has become a sadistic welfare state. unfortunately bush jr supports this. Americans will need to pull this support.

Considering Israel's proclaimed objectives, it's clearly evident that they have lost the war. They cannot disarm hezbollah, nor do they have the moral authority to enforce UN resolutions since no country has violted more internatioal resolutions than Israel.

Hezbollah's objectives are clear. To demonstrate to the public opinion that they can stand up to Israeli force, hurt them in an all out war and remain intact to even succumb the Israelis to release their prisoners. Unlike Israelis, they're fighting very methodicaly, patiently and at the same time forceful enough to create considerable psychological and physical damage to its enemy. Israel cannot absorb sustainable economic damage to its infrastructure. It is a modern country very much dependant on stability which has been forced to shut down its major port and industrial harbor.
Islamic resistance in Lebanon was born in slums and can easily adapt to hardship without having to worry about gas prices or Dow Jones performance. out of 200 lebaneese killed by IDF, only a handful were members of hezbollah while over 80% of casualties of Israel are from its armed forces. Hezbollah seems far more professional while IDF seems both reckless and very nervous.
Since hezbollah has already won the conflict, a fact which will become even more transparent as days pass, there would be two likely outcomes. Either Israel faced with a humiliating defeat would try to expand the war and involve US troops as well or they would take the initiative to speed up the process of deployment of international forces in a country where hezbollah will be the dominant force in government and military with local and regional support that will surpass of whatever we have witnessed so far.
This is the beginning of the end of Israel as a regional aggressive superpower armed with nuclear warheads that has intimidated its neighbors and confiscated their lands. Soul searching process among israel supporters is already well underway and the south africanization of it is moving forward. slowler than what hezollah and the other countries in the region desire but for sure. Nobody wants a supramacist with nuclear weapon and I mean nobody.

Am up late, despairing over the children who are losing their lives in Iraq and Lebanon as I write this.

Remember when the Iraq war was first waged? When every U.S. citizen who challenged the government's motive for war was called "unpatriotic"?

That is just how it is to be a Jew who does not support Israel's murder of innocent children. Believe it or not, even *Jewish people* who challenge Israel are accused of being anti-semitic.

In either case, it is fascist rhetoric and terrifying.

If anyone should be against the murder of total innocents, it is the Jews. To use the Holocaust as part of a defense for murdering children in Lebanon is one of the most ironic and horrifying arguments history has ever seen.

The real tragedy of Israel is that it is those who were NOT responsible for the holocaust who are paying the price.

If the historic lands of Israel had been in Bavaria, I don't think anyone would have a problem with the existence of the state of israel. The reality is that the Palestinians NEVER harmed jews before they were deprived of their lands, homes, citizenship and basic human rights.

The real problem is that the palestinians should have the high moral ground but they need a Nelson Mandela to articulate this to the world. (Let us not forget that the ANC were considered vile terrorists for a very long time). The problem is that suicide bombing take away for the high moral ground and Israel is about 1000 times better at PR...

Interesting facts 1 of 3: It is said that the Palestinians are refugees, and that Israeli Jews are a European invasion of Arab land. Did you know that: HALF of today's Israeli Jews are descended from Jews EXPELLED by Moslem countries by government-sponsored terror since World War II. MOST of the Jews driven from Moslem lands had lived in those Moslem lands for over 2000 years, often LONGER than the existence of the Moslem religion. BUT, many, perhaps HALF of today's "Palestinians" are descended from people who entered the Palestine region since World War II, seeking the better economic opportunities CREATED by Israel or by the crazy welfare state resulting from manipulation of world bodies under the guise of a "Palestinian refugee problem".

Interesting facts 2 of 3: Palestine arose from a League of Nations Mandate which was part of a larger effort to create self-determination opportunities for the subject peoples of the defunct Ottoman Empire. This larger effort carved our three LARGE states for Arabs - Iraq, Syria and Jordan; one small Christian state, Lebanon, whose Christians have been rewarded for their tolerance by losing their country; and a small state for Jews, who have ALWAYS had a presence in the area, which we hope not to lose, and will fight for. Arab countries have a population, land and resources immensely larger than Israel. If tiny Israel could absorb the Jews expelled from Arab lands, why have Arab countries refused to absorb their own?

Interesting facts 3 of 3: As for the European refugee Jews now in Israel, which has been called a European problem, the fact is that the Arab establishment in Palestine collaborated extensively with Nazi Germany during World War II under the Mufti of Jerusalem, and adapted Nazi anti-Semitism to their own need, combined later with Soviet training in tactics of insurrection. The Jhihadists have taken for their own all that is antithetic to western values, and all that we hoped the defeat of the Nazi and collapse of the Soviet empires had eradicated. The Jews of Israel are only a proxy for western civilization, which the Jhihadists wish to eradicate. Israel stands now like Britain at the start of World War II - paying for its pacifist movement, grateful for all sorts of encouragement and support, but fighting on the battlefield alone. Appeasement of the Jhihadists will as little work as did the appeasement of the Nazis. It is again our time for blood, sweat, toil and tears. The battle

Strange. Doesn't anyone learn from yesterday?

The US invaded Iraq, Saddam's forces hid their weapons in the desert and their best soldiers within the local population. The US "won" and the Iraqi's waited a moment, then dug up their weapons. Now the US now has lost, more or less, control of the whole country.

So Israel will "win" and the herzbollah will dig up their weapons.

Do you think the Herzb's are strangers in lebanon, or palestinians are strangers in their own country? So that when they are bombed they will leave? They have nowhere to go to. and the alternative, 50 years or life imprisonment in a refugee "camp/prison" is the sort of "freedom" that millions have fought against for centuries.

Even in the US, although you seem to have forgotten it, you fought for freedom as well.

But for those that want to expand the war to Shiites and Sunni's, perhaps you should take into account that there are 1.2 billion muslims. Who are being held in check by "pro-andPaidForByTheUS" arabic rulers. Noticed how Egypt and Jordan say nothing?

Israel is socuially, economically and politically a failed state that is why it "needs" to keep fighting wars for its "existence".

Mr. Hyman,

All "facts" put together are nothing when weighed against the value of even one innocent child's life. (Never mind that what you wrote could not be referred to as 'fact' in even the loosest sense.)

People who attempt to justify the killing of other people's children send chills down my spine. Reading what you wrote, I am ashamed to be human.

"I'm not protecting any side now, all I'm saying is don't be a hero, DON'T ACT LIKE YOU HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS, because even if you really wanted to -you cannot imagine what we are going [through]!"

Sharon, thank you for delivering the most sensible comment thus far.

Enough with the shallow and simplistic 'either-or' arguments. Enough with the hypocritical claims that only one side is morally and/or historically right and the other is wrong. Enough with the prejudiced generalizations. Enough with the passive acceptance of, and justifications for violence against civilians in order to further a particular agenda.

Be smart enough to know that most of us don't know enough to render and truly intelligent, analytical, informed and useful opinion on the events and extremely complex dynamics of the region. Be smart enough to know that you don't have any good answers either.

'Nuf said.

Emanuel Hayman.

You forget where the Jewish tribe came from originally. Not Europe, not the present land of Israel, nor even Egypt - but before that. Saudi Arabia. (Although I am told there are ramifications in the northern part of Africa as well.) Just another nomadic tribe.

(in fact, thirty years ago if you asked a Bedouin in Saudi Arabia "who were the Jews", he'd ask you which tribe was that? They were in Medina before Mohammed got there)

So why haven't Arabic countries absorbed their own? You tell me.

I wish all these arabs simpatisers go and live in arabs country,for a while so then they can appreciate the freedom.
The west are in a letargic state,not realising that all those peace loving islamics are planning further atrocities.
Rupert Murdoch was quit correct about the muslims,they have no loyalty to the host country. Once an arab always an arab.
The soon the west realise about the true intention of these barbarians the better,these lunatics should all be sent back to the country of origin,regardeless their place of birth because they do not how to leave in a civilised society.

Unarmed innocent civilians have been blown to bits in hospitals, in their own homes, while fleeing from their own homes, having picnics on the beach, in food aid convoys, in refugee convoys, in medical aid convoys, in ambulances.

Bush has labeled this slaughter of civilians who have nothing to do with the conflict as "self defence" while America pays of the rockets and bombs.

It's pretty obvious who the real terrorists are. 95% of civilains killed in the Israeli conflict are not killed by the so called terrorists - they are killed by the Israeli Defence Force using weapons paid for by America.

There is currently no military force anywhere in the world that is so efficient at killing children.

Killing children and other civilians is wrong no matter how or why it is done. Arguing about who started it is pointless as each side will argue back to some incident; everytime something like this happens it is a tragedy. To attack Hezb. to defend oneself is one thing, but to destroy the infrastructure and kill hundreds of civilians of a democratic country is beyond the pale. Letting a friend continue such behaviour is no favor. For a terrorist organization to do such is expected, that is why we call them "bad guys" and oppose them. For a democratic ally to carry out such attacks is also a threat though; the threat that one becomes what one opposes.

Lets not have any of this guff about the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem being in on the holocaust. Arab nationalists all across the middle east including British-controlled Palestine and Egypt wanted Germany to win WWII in order to get rid of the British. At the dawn of the 20th century the tiny jewish polulation in what later became Israel was of no concern to arab nationalist leaders under Ottoman rule and did not become so until the Balfour Declaration of 1917 gave tacit British support to the creation of a jewish homeland in Palestine. One can only imagine TE Lawrence's reaction to Balfour having worked his backside off to further both British and Arab nationalist interests in driving the Turks out of Arabia and the near-east.

A few statistics:
Dead Israelis 12(mil) 13(civ) (48%:52%)
Dead Libanese 14(mil) 220(civ)(6%:94%)
who's taking greater care not to harm civilians? According to these numbers, certainly not the Israeli!
rockets fired by Hezbullah: btw. 700-1500
shelling bombing, etc. by Israel: no numbers available? why not, because it 10 times more?, 100 times more?...., who knows...
What do these numbers show: One-sided pro-Israeli reporting. It is often written what terrible things happen to Israeli families, which often are named in the news. Lebanese are apprently just numbers.
Did GB bomb Belfast to ruins? Why not?

Tony Best attributed the following quote to David Ben Gurion "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population"

False Quote claimed it was false and said Google it. I did and it came up straight away as a quote from David Ben Gurion.

It seems to me that we have terrorists on both sides in this conflict.

Let's remember the Christians in Lebanon.

Stephanie you are the one quoting absolute nonsense and historically incorrect facts:

"No other group of people actually laid claim to that land prior to the formation of the state of Israel. To say that Israelis are occupying land that doesn't belong to them is a fallacy."

That is 100% absolute bs. 1948 U.N. Resolution #181 was REJECTED by Arabs living in Palestine and surrounding Arab states. What part of that do you not understand?

According to the Ottoman's (you do know who they are don't you?) in 1900 the area of Palestine was 94% Arab. Even in 1948 when the the Resolution was passed by the U.N. the Area was 2/3 Arab. The majority of the Jews there had immigrated there and were encouraged to do so by the Stern Gang and other Zionists etc... in order to have more people there.

Again you need to study some history and stop misleading people here. Israel was carved out of Arab land by the U.N. The Arabs in the Plaestinian Mandate region voted this down. So did the Arab nations around it. It is not too hard to see why they dispute the legitimate existence of Israel.

"It's sounds as if you're saying that our support of Israel gives muslim terrorists a legitemate reason to kill innocent Americans."

Just for the sake of argument, the U.S has helped Israel kill 250 plus innocent civilians so far. Why should you be immune from reprisal attacks? The Israelis like to kill three Arabs for every Israeli (with U.S economic and military support). Would that be an acceptable ratio?

Let's remember the Christians in Lebanon. They also make up a sizable part of the population. How is the war affecting them?

Let's remember the Christians in Lebanon. They also make up a sizable part of the population. How is the war affecting them?

Israel must disappear of the earth's surface!

Someday that I hope come pretty soon the world will see a real holocaust not the one who never happened in WWII

Jews are the humanity's crap!!!

Let's remember the Christians in Lebanon. They also make up a sizable part of the population. How is the war affecting them?

Bush defends the bombing of civilians completely unrelated to the conflict as "self defence"

It sounds like the sort of insane comments that would come from Osama bin Laden.

If Bush's arguement is considered legitimate, does this mean American citizens can now legitimately be bombed and killed as "self defence" by any country attacked by America?

Bush's bizarre statement has just given a defence to terrorism.

Let's remember the Christians in Lebanon. They also make up a sizable part of the population. The war is certain to have a negative effect on them.

A few statistics:
Dead Israelis 12(mil) 13(civ) (48%:52%)
Dead Libanese 14(mil) 220(civ)(6%:94%)
who's taking greater care not to harm civilians? According to these numbers, certainly not the Israeli!
rockets fired by Hezbullah: btw. 700-1500
shelling bombing, etc. by Israel: no numbers available? why not, because it 10 times more?, 100 times more?...., who knows...
What do these numbers show: One-sided pro-Israeli reporting. It is often written what terrible things happen to Israeli families, which often are named in the news. Lebanese are apprently just numbers.
Did GB bomb Belfast to ruins? Why not?

"Let's remember the Christians in Lebanon. They also make up a sizable part of the population. The war is certain to have a negative effect on them." Laura Sol

I just saw a news item that Israel has just bombed a Christian area. No word of casualties yet.

But clearly, they are quite happy to bomb any civilians - doesn't matter who they are. They've killed a Canadian family, Indians, Phillipinos, a family from Ghana working for the UN, etc on top of 270 Lebanese.

The slaughter of ordniary civilians continues.

Stephanie:

"I wish you could grasp the concept that land will NOT bring peace as long as there are Israelis (read Jews) in that region."

Since Israel has not given up territory that would allow for a feasible Palestinian state to exist, you cannot claim that it will not bring peace. I think that is where Israel's whole approach needs to be reworked. Pro Arabs and pro Israelis get into all these historical arguments that end up regressing thousands of years to prove who actually has claim to the land. It's so foolish. Some of the research on DNA today suggests that all human beings can be linked through their DNA to a few tribes in Africa from where they spread out and populated the world. Should we go back that far? The reality is that the Palestinians want a feasible state and Israel says that it wants to give them territory for one. Granted, the offers in 1948, 67 etc. should have been accepted but again, that is history. Come back to today. Negotiate with Fatah and Mahmood Abbas. They have indicated a desire to have a two state solution.

In any conflict you have to deal with the complexities of different factions with different ideologies. A prosperous and independent Palestinian state will reduce if not eliminate any popular support Hamas has. Israel needs to drop the precondition of no violence before negotiations because Hamas may never accept Israel. Rocket attacks will continue and may continue even after Palestinian independence (completely eradicating Hamas's ideology will take time and the world will have to help build a strong Palestinian security force) but will that be any different from now? At least Palestinians will finally have a nation and the majority will want to see it prosper. Hamas will eventually have to change or die out.
I say again, the Israeli policy of not talking until all violence stops has not worked. It is time to try a different approach.

"We are the richest, we are the strongest, we have lots of atomic bombs, and we enjoy a pleasant lifetime. THEREFORE, we are the good, clever people, and we will defend ourselves by all means available. We will kill thousands of them for one of us. While our behaviour and our intentions are good and in accordance with God's law, our enemies are absolutely evil. They hate and envy our freedoms. God bless us and damn them."

This simple philosophy of the stone age persists into the Internet era. And you can kill more people and more easily by using computers.

I understand that Israel faces determined and ruthless enemies, but Israel's killing of so many innocent people themselves will only make their enemies more determined and ruthless and numerous. They're acting like the Middle East isn't the neighborhood they are going to be living in for the rest of Israel's days. Which won't come close to lasting this century the way they're going.

Terrorism is not alien to any nation. What one nation defines as terrorism, another defines as freedom-fighting. This has been the case for thousands of years. However, that being said, if we analyze the views of these people who commit such acts, they are strikingly similar to the views that are beginning to make their way into the mainstream American and British mind.
For example, when the United States was attacked on 9-11, the response to this attack, which led to the death of 3000 people was to attack 2 nations, destroy them and in the process kill 100s of thousands of women and children. Our view was that anyone who supports our enemy is our enemy. How is that any different from the view of the terrorists? The tanks and missles that strike Palestinians and Arabs elsewhere all say, "Made in the USA" on them. As an American, I am disgusted by the acts of 9-11, however, I am also disgusted by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. At least, in Afghanistan, there was a semblance of justice that was being implemented. Iraq was the single most criminal act perpetrated in my lifetime. The fact that we committed it should not go forgotten. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 and US and British troops went there like a wolf in sheep's clothing to acquire precious resources and to impose good-will. Every unjust act begets another. Unfortunately, when these crimes are committed in our name, it is we who will be punished. These terrorist acts are responses to what they feel are atrocities committed against them, just as our invasion of two nations was a response to what we felt was an atrocity against us. For over 50 years, criminal acts have been perpetrated against the people of the Muslim world with the support of the United States. Most of us do not even know that our tax dollars are being used to support Israel's state sponsored terrorism. If we could act with such inhumanity after one attack against us, imagine what kind of response we would make after 50 years of atrocities and no voice or vehicle in which to seek justice. Actions should not be examined in a vacuum. If not examined carefully, we will never free ourselves from the vicious cycle of retaliation that will only result in more deaths of innocent people, whether they be in England, the United States, Iraq, Pakistan or anywhere else in the world. The terrorists aren't attacking Switzerland? Might there be a reason for that.
Not only am I a proud American, I am also a proud Muslim. As a Muslim, I can assure you that there is nothing in our religion or in the basic blueprint of humanity that would ever condone acts of terror, just as there in nothing in Christianity that would condone the Ku-Klux-clan, the inquisition, or the Crusades (all acts in the name of Christianity. Our Quran states that, he who saves one life is as though he has saved all of humanity and he who takes one innocent life is as though he has killed all of humanity. If we tally up all those who have died in the name of Christianity, it still dwarfs the number of people who have been killed in the name of Islam. However, both of those numbers combined do not match the number of people who have died in the name of free market capitalism, imperialism, and colonialism, all of which were at least partly the result of our two nations' actions. Again, I ask you to not study history in a vacuum, lest you add more fuel to a fire that is quickly burning out of control. Rather ask yourself what can be done to extinguish the fire of hatred that is quickly consuming good people on both sides. The cruelest aspect of war is that it makes sane people act like animals. I assure you that if we were in Iraq during the years of sanctions that killed thousands of Iraqis or during the bombings of operation Enduring Freedom, or in Palestine as homes were bulldozed while loved ones still slept, you too would be driven to acts of barbarism, especially if no one in the world heard your cries for help. That is not a justification for what was done, but it is what drives these cowards to commit such heinous crimes. Let's dry out the fuel that feeds the fire and not fan the flames with our ignorant chants of bravado and stupidity.

Asking Israel to stop it's vicious slaughter? Silly. Never..they love war,they love slaughter and blood.Built that way, that's what they DO. Agressively land grab and make war. The American jewish neocons are screaming for America to bomb Iran and Syria (and everything else) start WWIII.
And one idiot in the Washington Times said "we're all Israelis now". Puked on my computer.

I am really surprised of how facts are interpreted in the West.Israel is an occupying force ,Do you know how many U N resolution it ignored(with the support of the U S) or how many Palestinian or Lebanese house it demolished or how many greenery and olive trees it destroyed or the amount of land it confiscated.It does not want to let go of land it occupies for over 40 years nor of the daily humiliating tactics it inflicts on Palestinians nor of Hitler tatics which were used in Europe during WWii.This of course is fully supported by the U.S,which provides Israel with 1-legal Umbrella by using Veto Power in the UN, 2-state of the art weapons to kill mainly civilians and destroy civilian infrastucture.Hamas declared a truce but the peace loving Israeli continued Target killing and shelling of civilians,destroying hospitals,water and power stations and initiated a blockade to starve civilians,stopped the flow of money,food medecin...etc in complicity with the US.Is this the attitude of a civilised nation or a so called democratic one or of one claiming Moral High Ground?.Why Israel keeps over 10,000 Women and children in its Prisons and refuses to release them or to exchange them against its kidnapped soldiers? ,How many infants, Kids have been killed directly or indirectly by american boms delivered by Israeli Army,And why it is ok for Israel to defend itself especially when it started it all, and not Palestinians or Lebanese?Israel has been daily flying its Fighters over Lebanese territory long before Hezbullah Kidnapped the two soldiers.Israel has reneged on the exchange of prisonners with Hizbullah which was brokered by Germany
The Root of the problem Mr Bush is not Hezbullah but the occupation of Arab Land and the use of American state of the art weapons against civilians and civilian targets with the stereo type slogan "they are terrorists planning attack against Israel or "They use civilian buildings to harbor terrorists or to hide weapons".
Democracies Mr Bush do not overrule the law,they do not occupy land for over 40 years and do not assassinate civilians on the pretext they are Terrorists.You cannot become the Judge,the Jury and the executionner unless you are a Hitler or a Stalin.
Al qassam and other rockets where only fired in response to the wide spread killing and destruction by the F 16th.So the Bush doctrine is Israel has the right to kill and commit what ever crimes against humanity,but when Palestinian or Lebanese respond with whatever means in their Hand they are terrorists and Israel has the right to defend itself,but not the Arabs

Tread lightly KF. In today's world, dominated by neo-con philosophy, those who attempt to understand the nature of violence, its roots and causes, and advocate diplomacy and negotiation for its resolution, are considered weak fools at best and terrorist sympathizers at worst.

A lot of talk just above my little message. The bottom line of all this profound analysis and discussion is that we have a new Adolph Hitler - he is in charge of Israel.

a lot of venom, a lot of fingerpointoing and what have you. I have noticed, while following the "Israel debate" over the last couple of years is that each side is extremely talented at playing the blame game while never conceding an inch to the other side's POV, regardless of how rational it may be.
Considering everyone is looking to assert blame, I find the BRITISH conspicuosly absent in these posts. The War surrounding Israel, just like countless of bloody wars in the Far East, Central Asia and particularly Africa, are largely the result of reckless colonial practices that left entire continents with unnatural borders and traditional enemies as neighbors, largely perpetrated by the British, although other Western European powers played their destructive role as well. It is therefore the burden of these countries, not the US or the UN, to assist these countries in finding a comprehensive solution to their quarrels. I think assistance in rebuilding the countries they raped would go along way, for starters.
And hey guys, Im sensitive so please don't yell at me in your posts.

"What is happening in Lebanon now will only increase terrorism on the long run. More hatred and desperation is developing."

I think things were already spinning out of control before this. You can't blame Israel for future terrorist activities.

Imagine if someone came into your home and kidnapped your kids. Wouldn't you take action?

But what is the real issue? Eventually the U.S. is going to have to accept the impossibility of bringing democracy to the Middle East and decide what we hope to accomplish in terms of future foriegn policy in the region.

Is the US going going to continue this seemingly pointless PR crusade in Iraq? Or redirect our resources towards the bigger picture involving Iran, Korea and now Hezbollah?

Someone wrote:

"Just today Hillary Clinton (not jewish, not a religious christian) declared her support of Israel's actions. This, of course, is not counting the myriad of senators and congressmen (likewise not jewish or southern christian) who believe that Israel is morally right (or the majority of the American public). Perhaps you ought to expand your own categoriziation of pro-Israel individuals."

Wow - a NY senator supporting Israel - now there's a shocker !! What an endorsement ...of course nothing to do with the fact that she wants to be POTUS next.

Anyone remember the episode from a few years back when she was alleged to have called someone a "j*w b*tch" and all the ass kissing she had to do to make up for it.

Sorry Hilary I know you thought everyone had forgotten.

Anagadir said "The bottom line of all this profound analysis and discussion is that we have a new Adolph Hitler - he is in charge of Israel."

If that's true then the arabs should love him, seeing as how they love the nazis.

hyman wrote:

"Interesting facts 3 of 3: As for the European refugee Jews now in Israel, which has been called a European problem, the fact is that the Arab establishment in Palestine collaborated extensively with Nazi Germany during World War II under the Mufti of Jerusalem, and adapted Nazi anti-Semitism to their own need, combined later with Soviet training in tactics of insurrection."

You do know of course that the Mufti was appointed by a Jew - Herbert Samuel.

Also I am sure you know that Yitshak Shamir and his terrorist LEHI group also attemted to contact the nazis to work with them against the British.

Some famous quotes from Israeli Prime Ministers regarding the Middle East conflict:

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.

David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): " If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

"We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return... The old will die and the young will forget."-David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, July 18, 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar's "Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet," Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.

"We must expel Arabs and take their places." - David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." - David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, 'What is to be done with the Palestinian population; Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'? Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979; Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country." - David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist." - Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." - Golda Meir, March 8, 1969.

"This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy." - Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971

"I have learned that the state of Israel cannot be ruled in our generation without deceit and adventurism." --Moshe Sharett, Israel's first Foreign Minister and later a Prime Minister (p.51 Simha Flapan, "The Birth of Israel", 1987)

"The state of Israel must invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the methods of provocation and revenge.... And above all, let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space." -From the diary of Moshe Sharett, Israeli's first Foreign Minister from 1948-1956, and Prime Minister from 1954-1956.

"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."-Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." - Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...." - Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.

"I would have joined a terrorist organization." - Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories." Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, tells students at Bar Ilan University, From the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

Israiel cannot destroy Hijbullah, new Hijbullah will born. World is watching a terrorist state's evil power.

Laura,

Does life only have value if it is a Christian life? This is the type of thinking that has led to much of the bloodshed in the 20th century and in the current Middle East conflict. When one side no longer sees the humanity of the other- it becomes easier to justify violence and murder...
But thank you for pointing out the fact that Muslims in Lebanon and across the Middle East in Egypt and the Gulf Countries respect and live side by side with Christians and people of other faith groups . They are not denying their right to live in these countries or to practice their religion. Many people seem to like to generalize Muslims and the religion of Islam as hateful- but this is just one small example of the humanity of these people.. they live and work together just as we do.. this peaceful coexistence has something to do with religion- because that is religion being practiced by rational minds. The distortions take place when people began to use religious rhetoric to justify unjust actions- like muslims, jews and christians all over the world are doing today... lets leave religion out of it unless we are going to use our religious teachings correctly to create peace and justice for people....

So Bush has come out four-square in favor of Israel's attacks. Meaning the United States has thrown its official backing behind the side in this conflict that has killed 10 times as many people -- and 20 times as many civilians -- as its foes.
The lesson any clear-headed person should take from this is that America itself is allied with the aggressors in this conflict, that America is an enemy of peace, that America is an unapologetic enemy of the Arab world.
For Bush and America, it seems, Israeli lives are worth so, so much more than Arab lives.
Hardly surprising then, that for growing numbers of Arabs, America is the enemy.
Thanks, George. That will really make us safer.

Setphanie: The Jewish bible written by Jews says Jews have the right to that land. And that they are the chosen people.
Remember that bible story when they went into Arab territory and returned...saying "it's the (wonderful) land of milk and honey"...and God says it should belong to us. Anyone else laughing? THe oh, so learned arguments above are as disgusting as they are funny.

"I think things were already spinning out of control before this. You can't blame Israel for future terrorist activities." BHC

Of course you can. If Israel killed my family members (like they have with 300 Lebanese civilians), then even if I had nothing against Israel previously, I'd certainly want to harm Israel in any way that I could.

What about if they bombed my house or village (like the Lebanese refugees who are now fleeing, estimated at half a million).

What if I am one of the thousands who have been locked up by Israel witrhout even a trial (including 300 children, many of whom Israel admits may have only thrown stones, or less). In just the last year, Israel have locked up a further 1000 people without trial (compared to 2 kidnapped soldiers - the supposed reason for the current situation)

What about if Israel sent me off my ancestral land and I've been in a refugee camp for 50 years.

What about if I am one of a million who are locked in the world's largest detention camp - Gaza - locked in by Israel and unable to leave, no power, no prosperity, and no future?

If Israel wants peace, it needs neighbours who are prosperous, and who are not continually antagonized and humiliated.

It's a very basic concept that applies to people everywhere, but for some reason Israel fails to comprehend basic human needs.

They falsely think people will respond to power and killing. They think they can "teach" people, while setting the world's worst example of how to behave themselves.

This week Israel has just pushed the peace process 20 year further into the future.

Israel is a fake state. I can survive only thanks to the billions given each year by the US. The best way to destroy Israel ? Make peace. Israel would collapse. They know it, their survival is possible only in a war economy, it's the only thing that can keep the state together and hide their failure as a viable independant nation.
The worst enemy of Israel is Peace, not the radical Islam.

For you all rabid racists against islam and muslims, I have only one word for you: go to hell. I wish muslims were not as cowardly as the backward Saudis who are buckling under the pressure of the stupid bush administration instead of supporting the courageous and steadfast resistance in palestine and lebanon to the barbaric, blood-thirsty zionists.

SOME THOUGHTS&QUESTIONS:

Israel keeps saying, the other (in that case the Lebanese) should finally implement the UN resolutions, while not complying with its own.
How do you call that?$

February 1971, Three off duty British soldiers abducted and shot dead by IRA, it denies responsibility.
Similar situation, isn't it?
Why was Belfast not destroyed?

On the school yard, who had usually better grades? The bully? Or the bullied?

When a bomb falls on my home, who is to blame? The producer? The seller? The buyer? The commander? The pilot?

If I tried really hard for 18 years to get rid of the rats in my basement, then wait 6 years doing nothing, can I get rid of them within a few weeks without burning down my house?

Israel has been attacked by these terrorists since its inception. This isn't about a war of atrocities that ISRAEL has committed. Its Israel who took in these palestinians because its Arab brothers didn't want them knowing what terrorists they would be in their own land. Its Israeli citizens who paid taxes for them to have the infrastructure they needed to live, let alone practice religion freely. Yet, these terrorists sole mission in life remained to wage war rather build a civil society for themselves. Its not Israelis who strap bombs to themselves in open markets or teach their children about Martyrdom with virgin girls through killing. Its not the Israelis who bomb trains in India or Spain. Its not Israelis who slaughter innocent children in Checnya. Israel has every right to defend itself against these terrorists. All death is a tragedy, as all credible religions teach. It is Israel who is interested in the peace process and its ISRAEL who withdrew from land. Its the terrorists who continue to fire over 600 missles within the past year alone (mind you that is before the current fighting) from the very land that Israel withdrew and go on to abduct its soldiers. This is not a war about Israelis and those who support them or the so called atrocities that are used as propaganda against Israel. This isn't a war about Israel -- this is a war about power and the terrorists who fight Western civilization and freedom of democracy, using Israel as their excuse to go on.

Israel has been attacked by these terrorists since its inception. This isn't about a war of atrocities that ISRAEL has committed. Its Israel who took in these palestinians because its Arab brothers didn't want them knowing what terrorists they would be in their own land. Its Israeli citizens who paid taxes for them to have the infrastructure they needed to live, let alone practice religion freely. Yet, these terrorists sole mission in life remained to wage war rather build a civil society for themselves. Its not Israelis who strap bombs to themselves in open markets or teach their children about Martyrdom with virgin girls through killing. Its not the Israelis who bomb trains in India or Spain. Its not Israelis who slaughter innocent children in Checnya. Israel has every right to defend itself against these terrorists. All death is a tragedy, as all credible religions teach. It is Israel who is interested in the peace process and its ISRAEL who withdrew from land. Its the terrorists who continue to fire over 600 missles within the past year alone (mind you that is before the current fighting) from the very land that Israel withdrew and go on to abduct its soldiers. This is not a war about Israelis and those who support them or the so called atrocities that are used as propaganda against Israel. This isn't a war about Israel -- this is a war about power and the terrorists who fight Western civilization and freedom of democracy, using Israel as their excuse to go on.

The man on the street in Egypt, Jordania and Saudi Arabia cannot be completely wrong. He loves Hezbollah. If we ignore the fact, that they are the enemy of Israel, there is not a single reason not to talk with them. The world was trapped after 9/11 in a bizarre "war against terror", now it is time to say goodbye to that dream and to become realistic. Israel has to take its neighbors as they are. By invading that part of the world after 45, Israel has never had any right to be let alone. It has to be a good neighbor too, share ressources, universities, electricity, water etc.

To begin, most American Jews support Israel, but that does not mean they support every Israeli action, such as the settlements, myself included. The most staunchly and unapologetic Israel supporters are the far right. In fact, even though the Republicans and Bush are far more pro-Israel than the Democrats, American Jews still continue to vote overwhelmingly Democrat and liberal. What does this mean? That American Jews care more about just Israel and that many can approach the issue with a degree of objectivity. It also demonstrates the widespread support Israel enjoys among the American public for what it has had to endure for nearly the past 60 years.

I will not apologize for Sabra and Shatila-there can be no apoligy for an atrocity. I will not apologize for the settlements and I have never understood why our government and moderate Israelis tolerate them. They deprive the Palestinians of what they want, a state of their own. In my view, however, there should be no doubt where much of the remaining blame should go.

In '67 Israel took the Golan, Sinai, and Palestinian territories as a buffer against those countries that were about to attack it in order to "throw the Jews into the sea." Israel subsequently gave back to Egypt all of its captured land (and evicted fanatical Jewish settlers) when they both agreed to peace at Camp David in '79. Israel made peace with Jordan in '94 and it tries to do the same with Syria, recently indicating it would give back the 'militarily dispensible' Golan.

A few years back at Camp David, Israel (with U.S. support) presented Arafat with a very good deal. Arafat did not remain at the negotiating table in search of better terms, he flat out rejected it and left the peace table to ignite the Second Intifada and plunge the Palestinians into a new cycle of death, destruction, and poverty. Many states (U.S., Israel, etc.) are born of some type of terror or violence and I was willing to forgive Arafat and others' transgressions before that, but when he rejected the deal, left the peace table, and started a new uprising, Arafat decided he'd rather be remembered as a terrorist then the man who would finally provide his people with a state. Much of the blame is on him.

Anyone who thinks that Israel will disappear or that the Jews will give up is sorely mistaken. It is not a practical solution to think that such a thing will happen. Similarly, how can the Palestinians or other Arabs think they will win with violence? How many wars have they started and miserably lost? For every person killed by a suicide bomber, the Palestinians lose 10. Is that morally justifiable? But even more important in a way, how does that equation add up to a winning solution? Violence as a tactic and strategy has not worked for the Palestinians-it has only created destruction, misery, orphans, dead children, and martyrs. I intend to make this point in a constructive (not nasty) way: go to an Israeli city and go to a Palestinian city-who does it look like is winning? Why do the Palestinians continue with the same losing strategy?

Wasn't Hezbollah supposed to disarm after driving Israel out of Lebanon (it's raison d'etre)? Why does it still exist if it's accomplished its goal? Don't tell me the Shebaa Farms. Hezbollah launched an unprovoked attack in Israel, of course Israel is going to strike back. How can you start a fight and then complain when your opponent fights back?

Israel was out of Gaza, but is temporarily back now because Hamas has launched another unprovoked attack. Hamas is the government of the Palestinians right now and Israel is striking at them. If you don't like violence then don't use it, but when you resort to violence you shouldn't be suprised if you're hit back even harder.

My view: Israel should get out of the West Bank quicker than planned and continue building the wall higher and higher. If the Palestinians don't want to agree to a peace then Israel should impose it.

Proudly American and Jewish

Yeah, yeah, "terrorists who fight western civilization." They're just bad evil people and we have to shower Lebanon with bombs and then they'll go away.
If only it were that simple.
In fact, Israel has guaranteed a whole new generation of Hezbollahs with its barbaric, thick-headed and self-defeating assault on Lebanon and murder of hundreds of entirely blameless men, women and children.
Want to create enemies?
This is exactly how it's done.
Israel has undermined its security for another generation.
Anyone in their right mind would leave that God-foresaken country as soon as they can. Its people are paranoid and deluded; it has no future.

A political solution would be much more likely to promote peace; what is necessary is the United States and Israel supporting the Lebanese government and military, ennabling 2 important steps;

First, the building of a Lebanese army that is strong enough to exclude Hizbullah military opertations from within Lebanon's borders.

Second, the creation of educational and employment opportunities for Lebanon's Shiite population, to offer a pragmatic alternative to membership in Hizbullah to a community that currently sees Hizbullah as the only organization that looks out for any of their interests.

In the absence of wither of these steps, the current military campaign will at best provide temporary and minor security gains to Israel, at a huge humanitarian cost to Lebanon, and will likely foment anti-Israel opinion. This, in concert with the steady supply of money flowing to those willing to take up arms against Israel (Iran won't run out of oil anytime soon), mean that Israel will face more threats in the future.

I hope and pray that the military campaign will end quickly, and that it will be followed up by adequate and progressive political and economic interventions. But our dismal track record in such matters gives little grounds for optimism.

World opinion is against israelis. Israel made a blunder in my view. Yes hizbullah started it. But killing 240 civilians is not going to help israel. It looked as israel is the aggressor like a bully with american made weapons. It would have been easy for Israel if they created massive support then attacked hizbullah. What Israel currently doing is create a fear in the population and make them flee. So that they can capture 30 miles inside of lebanon free to prevent rockets from coming inside.
You can't get rid of Hizbulloh. It is like North and south pole of magnets. As long as Israel exists , Muslims will fight against Israel. It will continue forever.

When america talking about democracy in the world , it helps to create 100% non secular religious state Israel in the middle of Muslim world. That is slap against Muslims.
They will fight to death. Weapons will be more dangerous in future. Israel can't defend its people with all american military might unless it capture all muslim states. Then again the war will continue with anthrax to every possible weapon.

I know muslim religion is like a virus , if you let it grow it spread like virus. Israel is the last defending post. More intelligent Muslim state will be danger to the civilized world than powerful china.

So i want to support Israel and their understanding of Muslims that muslims only understand the language of force. But killing civilians is not the way to achieve world support. What Israel should have done is this. Used this as a excuse to pressure syria without attacking lebanon. Now they wasted thir chance. Once ceasefire starts , all they have done is killed bunch of civilians. Bad Idea.

Regardless what the Muslims on this board are saying, they have but one goal: to see every Isreali floating dead in the Mediterranean. Nothing short of this is acceptable.

It is part of their religion to hide their true intentions to the Infidel. What we call "lying."

Their Koran tells them that it is right and good to murder all those who are not Muslim. Jews and Christians are less than dogs to them. If you don't believe this, read the book yourself.

A recent survey claimed that the worst danger to world peace was the state of Israel ( 59% of the votes).
Half a millions civilians displaced, 250 innocent slaughtered, a country destroyed ... the cancer is spreading ....

Please, One step back¡¡

War is not the solution, in this case war is the problem. The beligerance scalete never runs in MidEast

Israel has been attacked by these terrorists since its inception. This isn't about a war of atrocities that ISRAEL has committed.
WRONG: Went in and grabed the land! Offensive behavior!

Its Israel who took in these palestinians because its Arab brothers didn't want them knowing what terrorists they would be in their own land.
WRONG: Without attempted ethnic cleansing there would be no terrorists!

Yet, these terrorists sole mission in life remained to wage war rather build a civil society for themselves.
WRONG: Building a stable civil society requires a not-bombed infrastructure. It would piss me off too not to have water and electricity for my aircon! It's hot there.

Its not Israelis who strap bombs to themselves in open markets or teach their children about Martyrdom with virgin girls through killing.
TRUE, BUT: Give them F16, Cobras, Abrams and they won't blow themselves up. One uses what one has

Its not the Israelis who bomb trains in India or Spain.
TRUE, BUT: They bomb transport routes in Lebanon and Palestine

Its not Israelis who slaughter innocent children in Checnya
TRUE: They slaughter them in the Middle-East.

Israel has every right to defend itself against these terrorists
ABSOLUTELY TRUE, BUT: DEFEND, NOT OFFEND

All death is a tragedy, as all credible religions teach.
TRUE, NOTHING TO SAY

It is Israel who is interested in the peace process and its ISRAEL who withdrew from land.
WRONG AND TRUE: Not interested in peace as long as they are stronger. Yes Israel withdrew (but that means that it went there first)

Its the terrorists who continue to fire over 600 missles within the past year alone (mind you that is before the current fighting) from the very land that Israel withdrew and go on to abduct its soldiers.
QUESTION: How many missiles and bomb did Israel frop in the same period?

This is not a war about Israelis and those who support them or the so called atrocities that are used as propaganda against Israel. This isn't a war about Israel -- this is a war about power and the terrorists who fight Western civilization and freedom of democracy, using Israel as their excuse to go on.
YOU REALLY THINK SO??

And suppose you kill all these men -- suppose you kill all of us. From every corner of Europe, hundreds, thousands will rise to take our place. Even Nazis can't kill that fast.

- Victor Laszlo, "Casablanca" (1942)

I love Israel dearly and think no other country would have shown the restraint she has to perpetually hostile neighbors who are so vicious and so weak. However, Olmert seems to have gone insane. Plaster Hamas and Hezbollah, but why target Lebanese infrastructure and power plants that pump Gaza's water?

Israel has been attacked by these terrorists since its inception. This isn't about a war of atrocities that ISRAEL has committed.
WRONG: Went in and grabed the land! Offensive behavior!

Its Israel who took in these palestinians because its Arab brothers didn't want them knowing what terrorists they would be in their own land.
WRONG: Without attempted ethnic cleansing there would be no terrorists!

Yet, these terrorists sole mission in life remained to wage war rather build a civil society for themselves.
WRONG: Building a stable civil society requires a not-bombed infrastructure. It would piss me off too not to have water and electricity for my aircon! It's hot there.

Its not Israelis who strap bombs to themselves in open markets or teach their children about Martyrdom with virgin girls through killing.
TRUE, BUT: Give them F16, Cobras, Abrams and they won't blow themselves up. One uses what one has

Its not the Israelis who bomb trains in India or Spain.
TRUE, BUT: They bomb transport routes in Lebanon and Palestine

Its not Israelis who slaughter innocent children in Checnya
TRUE: They slaughter them in the Middle-East.

Israel has every right to defend itself against these terrorists
ABSOLUTELY TRUE, BUT: DEFEND, NOT OFFEND

All death is a tragedy, as all credible religions teach.
TRUE, NOTHING TO SAY

It is Israel who is interested in the peace process and its ISRAEL who withdrew from land.
WRONG AND TRUE: Not interested in peace as long as they are stronger. Yes Israel withdrew (but that means that it went there first)

Its the terrorists who continue to fire over 600 missles within the past year alone (mind you that is before the current fighting) from the very land that Israel withdrew and go on to abduct its soldiers.
QUESTION: How many missiles and bomb did Israel frop in the same period?

This is not a war about Israelis and those who support them or the so called atrocities that are used as propaganda against Israel. This isn't a war about Israel -- this is a war about power and the terrorists who fight Western civilization and freedom of democracy, using Israel as their excuse to go on.
YOU REALLY THINK SO??

SOME THOUGHTS&QUESTIONS:

Israel keeps saying, the other (in that case the Lebanese) should finally implement the UN resolutions, while not complying with its own.
How do you call that?$

February 1971, Three off duty British soldiers abducted and shot dead by IRA, it denies responsibility.
Similar situation, isn't it?
Why was Belfast not destroyed?

On the school yard, who had usually better grades? The bully? Or the bullied?

When a bomb falls on my home, who is to blame? The producer? The seller? The buyer? The commander? The pilot?

If I tried really hard for 18 years to get rid of the rats in my basement, then wait 6 years doing nothing, can I get rid of them within a few weeks without burning down my house?

lot of huffing and puffing. with a billion muslims in the world, if all of them really were as bad as some of you proclaim them to be, the world would be in flames.

bunch of fascists who think they're replacing fascist radical islam. remove islam, i could laugh but it's just so evil and stupid, it's right out of a cartoon.

iran will get the bomb because just as we perceive them as an enemy that should be removed, they sense that and feel the same.
they will get the bomb and the world will have to live with it.

and why is it that when israel "defends itself" it kills more people than the reason it takes such action?

and the idiots quoting from the koran and what not, please, obvious propaganda. didn't you see the passion of the christ, it was the jews that killed jesus christ! i'm being ridiculous of course.

so what i'm saying is, most of these posters are morons with very little to say. som probably couldn't locate israel or lebanon without a map, they just like to breathe fire.

in this day in age, might is right just doesn't work. good luck with that.

to: jon m.ty

making writing in English difficult, specialee for amoron like yourself

What a discussion this has been! I never fail to be amazed at the way Israel is so villified by the world community for dealing with the terror and bloodshed it deals with on a daily basis. I read all of the "racist government," "oppresor," and otherwise "woe is me" jargon from some of you, and I still cannot believe how some of you will turn reality and pragmatism on its head to treat Arab terrorists like innocent angels. Then there are the ones who try and shut others up with the slogan "Racist!" Is that because you cannot come up with anything better to respond to an argument? Try and put yourselves in the shoes of Israelis, who know more than any of you wannabe-keyboard jihadis or self-righteous "peaceniks" what life is like when dealing with the threat of terrorists crossing international borders and kidnapping, murdering, and otherwise instigating conflict. And you expect Israel to do nothing, or be told by snivelling politicians who are thousands of miles away, what they should or shoudn't do in response? The world judges, but would you switch places with them? The Syrians and Iranians are laughing at you at just how well their little war is going. Did they seem to care about how this war would affect Lebanese civilians? Do terrorists ever care about innocent civilians? Face it, you mess with Israel, and you won't get a touchy-feely response. You don't win wars by wringing your hands over "disproportionate responses," you do it by pounding your enemy.

One picture is worth a thousands words:
http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.org/

That says it all. Can you Israel's supporters think that far ??

"And suppose you kill all these men -- suppose you kill all of us. From every corner of Europe, hundreds, thousands will rise to take our place. Even Nazis can't kill that fast."

- Victor Laszlo, "Casablanca" (1942)

Why is it that it is only America that vetoes any UN resolution against Israel?
Why is the American media so biased and only carrying Israeli propaganda? The average American really has no clue of what is really going on and this is very sad....for genuine peace in the middle east to prevail there must be honest and impartial attempts to solve the problem not just to further one party's agenda.

This conflict is between two terrorist organizations, Israel (just take a look at its terrorist origins) has been around longer and is the strongest of the two while Hezbollah is a natural reaction to Israel's existence. The world would be a better place if they just blew each other up and stopped blackmailing the rest of us to take sides.

Neither Israel nor Hezbollah are important to most of the planet, it can get along just fine without them.

Israel is behaving as Nazi Germany. They see the Arabs as less than human and the naive American public manipulated by the Jew controlled media is buying that the Hizballah are the bad guys. There are thousands of Arabs in Israeli jails for no reason while their loved ones are in anguish and no one seems to care. I love the way its okay for Israel to kill civilians because they are an army while the Hamas and others are terrorists for the same. I believe the Nazis had the uniforms when they came to round up the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto.

moe:

Why is it that it is only America that vetoes any UN resolution against Israel?

Maybe the Israelis have a very efficient way of getting the US to do so.....
...whatever that is

I used to think in 1998, that all america needed was a CEO to run this well oiled machinary. I thought anyone can replace clinton as he was acting like playboy. Well now we all know that is not exactly true. He was a playboy because clinton was super genius. He did his work and had ample time to do enjoy his life.

After seeing idiotic BUSH starting up trouble everywhere around the world for no reason and make a mess out of everything he touches , we now realize we miss clinton so much.

Try to control the world is not easy job , The best way to control the world is by being secret. You can't do expose your secrets by try to dominate the world. Now what america did is making every country to acquire NUKES to prevent this 1000 lb gorilla called USA against their country.

Complete Stupidity. I never seen more stupid people called "Neocons". Never expose your cards. Do things secretly. DO not wake up the world.

What i see is no PLAN. Instead of tryting to help Israel, America is making mess of it. You have to make Israel as a victim. That is not possible when Israel kills 240+ civilians in 6 days. Who is the real terrorist now?

Israel!. I thought jews are smart people. But again right wing jews are idiots just like neocons.

Timing is the key. You have to attack the supporter. Hisbulloh is just mosquittos. Killing Hizbulloh is useless!. A waste of time and money. They will be born again.

Alex:
But again right wing jews are idiots just like neocons.

If they are so stupid why do they have so much power? I think they just have other "priorities"

What a bunch of anti-semitic tripe.

The Truth: Hezbollah will not last. Syria will go the way of Saddam. And Iran after that.

The days of the tyrants are numbered. May the streets run red with their blood.

from jon m.ty

thank you. i can actually say the pledge of allegiance and recite the national anthem too.

i know you're trying to say that either we agree with your idiotic comments or we're arabs or terrorists posting as americans/westerners. of course you're probably a wife beating rapist and i know this because you disagree with me.

again, not much to say huh, *cough"moron*cough*?

to: jon m.ty

making writing in English difficult, specialee for amoron like yourself

I hope Israel kills all the muslim terrorists -- and all the Muslims who hate Jews.

Muslims are like ants who sting anything that is not marching in their line. The only thing to do with ants is exterminate them.

"I still cannot believe how some of you will turn reality and pragmatism on its head to treat Arab terrorists like innocent angels."

It's not about condoning the violence by Hamas and Hezbollah, rather pointing out that Israel's policy just perpetuates the tit for tat killings and attacks, and that there are three Arab deaths for every Israeli death. I never fail to be amazed when pro Israelis offer blanket support to every single policy of a state that is occupying and suppressing a people.

wow:
The days of the tyrants are numbered. May the streets run red with their blood.

ty·rant
Pronunciation: 'tI-r&nt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English tyraunt, from Anglo-French tyran, tyrant, from Latin tyrannus, from Greek tyrannos
1 a : an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution b : a usurper of sovereignty
2 a : a ruler who exercises absolute power oppressively or brutally b : one resembling an oppressive ruler in the harsh use of authority or power

I think this may apply to many governments.....

btw: why are you so hateful against people you want to rescue from tyranny?

EMANUEL HAYMAN

The lies you posted are so 60's.Try something new.
The only movement of civilians in Palestine after WWII was:Palestinians natives driven out and European jewish settlers, moving in.
Unless people drop their rethorics, stop trying changing facts on the grounds and forcefully adheres to ALL UN resolutions, this s**it will keep on happening.
The biggest curse and threat to Israel existance is the unconditional support of the USA.Sometimes you need your friend to stop you from doing something stupid.
But then again, stupid is the policy of this administration.

I would suggest that America give up some of their southern states (florida, alabama, mississippi, louisianna...) and form a new jewish country right next door and rename it "Israel".

That would save American tax dollars for their own citizens welfare (health and education) and a that's definite path to peace.

Frankly, having read through these comments, I despair for any solution to this conflict. I've never seen so much blatant racism.

Look, I don't support the Israelis in everything they do, nor do I support the Palestinians. In this particular conflict, however, I do support the Israeli response. I suppose I could give you my reasons for forming this opinion, but I'm not sure anyone would care.

In the end, for me, I simply do not believe that the extreme Muslim/Arab/Islamofascists out there will ever agree to live in peace with Israel. I fully expect to live a long life and eventually die - and this conflict will still be raging 50 years from now, unless one side is somehow able to exterminate the other (as horrific as that would be!).

I believe a negotiated settlement is the only change for real peace - unfortunately, I also don't believe that the terrorists would honor any agreement. They'd just bide their time and wait to attack Israel again.

Who's wrong? Who's right? What are the root causes of this conflict? We can debate these things endlessly, but they get us no closer to a solution. (And suggestions like "move all the jews" or "move all the arabs" aren't realistic solutions).

If people going to get hung up on who did what to whom in 1948 or 1967, or even 2006, then there will never be peace. Never.

I'll be 80 years old, and the TV news will still be "Muslims and Jews are still killing each other." In the meantime, if you're making me pick sides, I pick Israel.

I'm Canadian by the way, just in case anyone intends to sling any "well, you're obviously a pro-Zionist American" arrows my way.

Hezbollah, Hamas, and Israel are all terrorists. Israel the biggest. Rarely have images brought out such emotion in me.

http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.org/

Woah Yassir! On and on we go with the racism baloney. And did we really have to bring in the stupid Jew-conspiracy theories? Seriously, the only societies who actually believe that are the backward societies of the Middle East. Racist? No. True? Yes. Now that I've clarified that, let's move on. You bomb Israel, it retaliates. We established that long ago. Your Nazi analogy is asinine, as, first of all, Israelis are not systematically murdering Arabs. If anyone is systematically murdering Arabs, it's Arabs. Are you all so blinded by religious fervor, that you cannot see the simple equation? It's like a child trying to steal a cookie and then whining when he is punished. The Arabs the Israelis are targetting (operative word) are ones who murder, have murdered, or plan to murder again. They are targetting criminals in a war that is unlike any war with set guidelines such as the Geneva Accords. Unfortunately, civilians have been killed, as they have been throughout history in wars fought by men. It's a tragedy, but it's more of a tragedy that terrorist scum will exploit the Western/Israeli aversion to killing innocents, by hiding behind or among innocents. It is sick, and it shows the depraved and disgusting nature of these violent people. Racist? No. True? Absolutely.

Here in Detroit, the Muslim and Israelite communities always have lived in peace and harmony. Up until now, we've felt no fear of either rockets or artillery and bombs. What may be brewing in nearby Windsor (Ontario), we don't know.

Can someone stop these Jewish american media? They spread lies. Stupid lies infact. When you lie blatantly people get mad at the source. Jews. Even though most jews are liberal and source of intelligent ideas , there are right wing jews control Media. They are just idiots like neocons. You can't cheat people so long.

There is a smart ways to do things. Israel's actions are evil. They killed 240+ innocent civilians gruesome.

Israel lacks moral value!. FORCE will be powerful effect when you have moral high ground.

Atpresent America and Israel are look like bullies of the WORLD!.

Instead of trying to rid the Earth of Islam, why not just get rid of Israel, wouldn't that be easier? The arabs won't have the excuse of Palestinian oppression anymore and would have to move on to bigger issues, like deciding the winner of the next American Idol.

I kid, I kid. Just trying to be as unproductive, obnoxious, racist, imbecilic as everyone else, that's all.

Peace

Someone needs to send this link to that idiot Bush who is probably calling Israel right now to say, "Heck of a job Olmy!".

Alex:
there are right wing jews control Media. They are just idiots like neocons.

If they are so stupid why do they have so much power? I think they just have other "priorities"

People calling for more fighting and looking for WWIII should take a moment to look their children in the eyes and say these things to them. If we don't care about children in other countries, I hope we care about ou r own. WWIII means World War. It doesn't mean sitting in your house watching the bombing on your T.V. I also wonder about the end time Christians. Do you look for a second coming of Christ because you don't like the counsel he gave about peace when he was here the first time?

Oh this is great!!
U tube just pulled the video of Lebanese children dying. Free society my a**. Share all the information you want as long as it is anti Arab and not anti Israel.

http://fromisrael2lebanon.com/

Well at least a lot of people are expessing their views on this issue, so here is my two cent's for ya all.

we are in WWIII now and we need to admit to it.

I have nothing against either Jews or Muslims per se but when a religion gets its followers to be so 'closed minded' that they fail to see the reality of their actions it being so BARBERIC like the suicide bombers and beheadings that the islamic terrorists are known for then my only solution to offer these 'sub-humans' is to give them what they want, 'martyrdom'
yes we will oblige their wish to die and we will kill them until there are no more arabs or muslims that want to be martyrs, then we can be free from the terrorists once and for all and then peace loving arabs/muslims will be left to fix their dirty little problem of radical pigs like Osama, Zaquari etc.

when the last islamic/muslim terrorist is killed, then and only then might we find peace in the middle east.

Salman Rahsade is right.

Islamic terrorist arfe dead wrong.

To Iran - you want nuclear bombs? how about a few mushroom clouds over Tehran?
that would give ya something to think about.

Radical Islamics take heed you may just get what you wish for. Martyrdom, but by now they are probably running out of the 40 virgins so late comers loose!

Peace to those that support peacefull coexistence
Death to all others.

Well at least a lot of people are expessing their views on this issue, so here is my two cent's for ya all.

we are in WWIII now and we need to admit to it.

I have nothing against either Jews or Muslims per se but when a religion gets its followers to be so 'closed minded' that they fail to see the reality of their actions it being so BARBERIC like the suicide bombers and beheadings that the islamic terrorists are known for then my only solution to offer these 'sub-humans' is to give them what they want, 'martyrdom'
yes we will oblige their wish to die and we will kill them until there are no more arabs or muslims that want to be martyrs, then we can be free from the terrorists once and for all and then peace loving arabs/muslims will be left to fix their dirty little problem of radical pigs like Osama, Zaquari etc.

when the last islamic/muslim terrorist is killed, then and only then might we find peace in the middle east.

Salman Rahsade is right.

Islamic terrorist arfe dead wrong.

To Iran - you want nuclear bombs? how about a few mushroom clouds over Tehran?
that would give ya something to think about.

Radical Islamics take heed you may just get what you wish for. Martyrdom, but by now they are probably running out of the 40 virgins so late comers loose!

Peace to those that support peacefull coexistence
Death to all others.

SHALL we GET RID of, once and for all, the
stupid lie that dear little Israel was so nice they left just Lebanon? #$^@! They invaded, tried to take over, failed and were forced to leave tail between legs. They still occupy part of Lebanon, the Shebba farms.

Lets make few things clear.

Muslims are like virus. Not the people but the idea of muslim is a virus. Once they get hold of your country and they make dozens children in every family until muslims become mahority. Muslim religion is a bad idea. it may be the great religion during 6th century.
Humans are outgrown religion in this century. Muslim religion do not have freedom of thought and dangerous to human growth.
All other religion can tolerate other religion.

The idea of islam has to be killed sooner or later. if world war III will achieve that , well and good.

Again understand this people are good. i am just talking about the idea of islam not muslims.

May be democracy in those countries can change the mindset but i seriously doubt that. Check out the majority muslim countries. Either religious fanatic or dictator rule muslim states.

Muslims are against Democracy. Democracy allows freedom of worship , freedom of thought. Those are against islam's ideals.

That is why Iraq can't be democractic state unless millions of americans move there and make it majority christian state. Hahaha. Think about it.

Muslims understand the language of force. That is absolutely true. You can't have a dialogue with them without language of force. You have to conquer them. That is the only way.

That being said , the idea of Israel is to create WAR. If Isreal and america wanted peace , it could do it no time i believe.

There are strategy involved.

What i don't like is America is acting like a bully and losing High moral ground when it is only super power in the world.

It makes people of the world to take extreme steps to counter this 1000lb gorilla.

America should never lose its high moral ground. Champion of peace and freedom.

Fabian. The neocons ARE jews, mostly, or crazy right wingers who think the "second coming" won't happen until all jews are converted to christianity. It's such a hoot.

"Muslims are like virus"

"The idea of islam has to be killed sooner or later"

"Iraq can't be democractic state unless millions of americans move there and make it majority christian state"

Alex, if these are the kinds of opinions Americans espouse, I can't believe you had the gall to follow it up with:

"America should never lose its high moral ground. Champion of peace and freedom."

I hear a lot of, "All they understand is force!" in relation to the Arab interests in the middle east.
If that is true, then why would you give them what they want and understand?
Israel has shown us that force and segregation DO NOT WORK! Why are we so eager to do the same?
Force has so rarely proven to be an answer in the world, why is it so many people's answer to foreign policy issues? Is it weak to think? Is it weak to use your brain to come up with solutions?

All I understand is that bloodthirsty mobs are supposed to be reined in by sober leaders, not the other way around.

In direct response to Jon M who prescribed "ridding the world of Islam"-- your comments are short sighted and make evident your degree of ignorance about Middle East history and US/European hypocrisy in the face of democracy in the Middle East. At least Hezbollah and Hamas stear clear of corruption and offer concrete goods and services for the communities where they reside. Your ignorance in thinking that Islam is the problem makes it clear that you have believed every word of the propoganda machine that somehow violence against Israel (and the west) has anything to do with religion and not ecconomics or other grievances. Is ours a war in the name of Judhism? Christianity? Arab nations are not so stupid to not recognize that they are not free to practice democracy as long as their is American influence. Israel (and the US) deserve what they have coming, just as Arabs fighting have every right to defend themselves, especially in light of the fact that they are controlled by puppet/corrupt governments. It is little wonder that Islamists gain popularity-- they are the only alternative in such a imbalanced world. Religion has nothing to do with it.

This is cancer surgery and chemotherapy for Lebanon and for the rest of the ME as well. Cut Hezbollah off from Syria first, destroy its weapons and kill as many of its fighters as necessary. Pull Syria away from Iran, or destroy its govenment (Syria can choose which). Without Syria, Iran can't resupply Hezbollah (take a look at a map). Do the same to Hamas. Iran, left standing alone, can't continue to create the problems that it has without doing so directly, and it's not strong enough to do that and survive the reaction of its own people, much less the forces in the region that would oppose them -- and that would include not only US and Israeli, but Arab as well, since every nation in the ME except for Syria (at least for now) considers Iran a bigger threat than Israel (Israel isn't a threat if it's left alone, and the Arabs know it).

Israel's actions are giving the people of Lebanon and the Palestinians in Gaza a chance at peace and prosperity in the same way (but on a smaller scale of course) that the US and Great Britain brought peace and prosperity to Western Europe in 1944-45. Tough medicine, but that's what killing a cancer (Hezbollah and Hamas) requires. As long as Hezbollah and Hamas are influential, Palestinians will be impoverished and embattled, because that's what keeps Hezbollah and Hamas in power.

This isn't like previous ME wars. Israel is getting a pass from its Arab neighbors -- Syria's the only exception. A few Arab governments (such as Kuwait) are making the obligatory critical remarks, but all of them want Iran isolated, and all of them understand clearly that that is exactly what Israel's objective is. It is also their own, so they're not only going to let it happen, they're going to cheer (if privately) as it does. Contrary to what one commenter said, it's not deferring peace, rather, it is making it possible. The only people who will oppose it are those for whom Israel's destruction is the only acceptable outcome. And there are fewer of those than there used to be -- before long, Iran's only friend will be NK (it's getting ronerier and ronerier in the axis of evil).

In the run-up to the Iraq war, the Army Chief of staff estimated it would take 400,000 soldiers to take and SECURE Iraq. The Administration said it was nonsense, and we went in with half the number of troops that were needed. The conventional portion of the war was won because of our enormous firepower, and the fact that we were facing massed formations that our weapons systems were designed to destroy. The Administration has learned the hard way that insurgents don't mass and make easy targets for our firepower. In deed, they conduct small operations against isolated targets and are usually successful. This type of warfare can go on for years as we have seen in the Soviet/Afghanistan war, Vietnam, and the previous Israeli incursions into Lebanon.
Now if the Administration had put in 400,000 troops into Iraq it would have limited the effectiveness of the Insurgency, but I doubt it would have been completely successful without a politcal settement of some kind.
Israel needs a buffer zone to push the rockets back from her border. This means it has to occupy some portion of Lebanon. This is where an insurgency kicks in big time. They get to pick the ground and the targets. Does Israel have 400,000 troops to occupy parts, if not all, of Lebanon? Are the Israeli People and the IDF prepared to deal with casualties that will result? One might even see volunteers coming into Lebanon to defend its sovereignty. If Hizbullah is destroyed, will an al-Qaida franchise take its place? You have possibly heard the term unforeseen consequences?

The Israeli Pebble in the middle east pond has created ripple effects since 1948 and continues. 6 million Israelis are holding the peace of the entire world hostage. Holocaust continues to suck the money and cost the world a lot.

In the run-up to the Iraq war, the Army Chief of staff estimated it would take 400,000 soldiers to take and SECURE Iraq. The Administration said it was nonsense, and we went in with half the number of troops that were needed. The conventional portion of the war was won because of our enormous firepower, and the fact that we were facing massed formations that our weapons systems were designed to destroy. The Administration has learned the hard way that insurgents don't mass and make easy targets for our firepower. In deed, they conduct small operations against isolated targets and are usually successful. This type of warfare can go on for years as we have seen in the Soviet/Afghanistan war, Vietnam, and the previous Israeli incursions into Lebanon.
Now if the Administration had put in 400,000 troops into Iraq it would have limited the effectiveness of the Insurgency, but I doubt it would have been completely successful without a politcal settement of some kind.
Israel needs a buffer zone to push the rockets back from her border. This means it has to occupy some portion of Lebanon. This is where an insurgency kicks in big time. They get to pick the ground and the targets. Does Israel have 400,000 troops to occupy parts, if not all, of Lebanon? Are the Israeli People and the IDF prepared to deal with casualties that will result? One might even see volunteers coming into Lebanon to defend its sovereignty. If Hizbullah is destroyed, will an al-Qaida franchise take its place? You have possibly heard the term unforeseen consequences?

The Israeli Pebble in the middle east pond has created ripple effects since 1948 and continues. 6 million Israelis are holding the peace of the entire world hostage. Holocaust continues to suck the money and cost the world a lot.

I am stupider for having read through these comments.

When your 2 year old stabs his 10 year old sibling with a pencil and the 10 year beats him over the head with a baseball bat - first you have to stop the ten year old beating him and then try and educate him on why not to stab with a pencil....

The US politicians cannot win an election if they piss off the Jews. The media, the financial markets, the so called analysts are mostly Jews. The general population in the US that is busy with the material aspects of life and the almighty dollar, have very short sighted attitude (they cannot thing too far into the future). They are too busy with football, baseball, drinking beer and alcohol, pornography and priests busy molesting children and on and on; we will continue to have problems in the world. It some day a US president has the backbone to be an impartial broker in the middle east, we will be paying a price for ever. Read Truman's diary of 1948 and what he said about the Jews.

Do you all believe that Israel wants peace?. Are you sure?. It seems to me Israel is create to destablize middle east.

If America and israel wants peace , it could be achieved in no time.

As Osama said once American economy is WAR economy. It needs a war in every decade to keep its economy afloat. It rings so true now.

The real evil are american policy makers (all of them are right wing jews).

America should stop running the policy through Israel. the idea is not about protecting isreal it is about using israel to destablize the region.

America has to be stop being Bully. America has to have High Moral ground to make people think what america does is right thing.

Atpresent america and israel are one of the same. A bully. A state terrorists.

You can't kill 240+ civilians and condoning the killing of innocent civilians. That is pure evil and coward act by BUSH.

If people think occupying Lebanon will solve the problem. They are gravely mistaken. Or even occupying syria. Or even occupying Iran.

This is war againts islam in someway. I rather see that happen in secretly than open. Because open war will kill many civilians. That is not acceptable. Every life is very valuable even if it is muslims. They are humans first. Muslim is a belief.

What i see is WORLD lacks LEADERSHIP!. BUSH IS AN IDIOT. BLAIR IS HIS POODLE.

World need a new leader who do things effectively without creating horror.

Let me tell the audience here who are religious (or pretend to be religious) that there is no God as Religions describe. There is no hereafter heaven or hell. The only thing that counts is that might is right (Law of the Jungle). God (since it does not exist) can't come to the aid of children being killed in Palestine and Lebanon. You can bomb people 7 days a week and have a bible/torah/koran and visit your place of worship. For those who believe, you definitley insult the interlligence of the God you believe in by killing every day and visiting him once a week to ask for guidance. Human beings are the only creatures capable of hate. I sure feel ashamed to call my self a member of the human race. Shame on those who have the power and misuse it.

Jon M wrote: ".....Europeans and us Americans aren't savage barbarians who behead people and bear 13 children so it won't be too sad when we encourage some of them to blow themselves up."

Here is a little historical retrospection :
1.The 100 Years War was fought between England and France in which it is estimated that France's population at the time was reduced by 50%.
2.WW I & WW II were started by Europeans and fought mainly in Europe. The most conservative estimate of the number of people who were killed in Russia (USSR) during WW II alone is 20 million, to say nothing about the more than 1.2 million people who lost their lives in Ethiopia and North Africa when Mussolini and Nazi forces expanded the War to that part of the world.
3.During the British rule of what is now Israel, Jewish nationalists were actively engaged in acts of terrorism against what they called "British imperialists". In fact the man considered as the father of Israel, Ben Gurion, was once branded as a terrorist by the British authorities.
4.The Vietnam War took the lives of about 58,000 Americans. Millions of Southeast Asians (Vietnamese and Cambodians) were killed in that war.
5.Remember Timothy McVeigh, the blond blue-eyed young man who blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995, killing 168 innocent men, women and children?
6.The Iraq war was waged under the guise of a bunch of God-forbidden lies. Tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis have died and are dying even at this very hour.

Given these historical facts and many more that are not listed above how can anyone with half a rat's brain make the kind of ridiculous statement Jon M made above?

I can only hope Israel angers enough people with enough weapons that it simply vanishes over night. Anyone with any moral backbone at all should have abandoned that country long ago...

If Israel was gone (and especially if it took its enemies with it), it would save the rest of the world a lot of headache and would probably near instanteanously create a real lasting peace in the world. So long as Israel exists the world can never have peace, too many people in that country don't want peace (unless peace means every non-Jew in the world is dead or enslaved to them.) This doesn't mean I support the Muslims either, too many social ills amongst them too... but I've never heard of any meaningful trouble from them pre-Israel.

Relocate Israel to Texas. If we can afford to have 12 million illegal immigrants we definitely can afford to have 6 million Israelis. There are more Jews in US than in Israel. Why not bring 'em over and they can be one big money sucking happy family.

My first reaction after 9/11 was anger. Anger at muslim states. But after few years and iraq war i started to see things very clear.

What made me see things clear was collapse of WTC 7. It collapsed like controlled demolition. There was not much fire in that building to collapse like that. They did n't have time to install the explosives at strategic places to make it collapse in controlled way. It takes days to do that.
So i thought in the event of disaster that WTC building was pre planted explosives in the building to reduce the collateral damage to adjacent areas and also get insurance money.

Then if that is the case why not wait until all the people leave the building? Well if everyone leave the building , people may suspect that explosives was planted and they may not get their insurance money.

Or they knew the attack is going to happen and fore the spectacular effect of triggering anger against All muslims and arabs. Who is going to gain all of this Israel? Who can outsmart arabs ? Mossad!.

Did Bush knew about it ? Or any one in Bush administration knew about it? Well i am 100% sure bush does n't have brain to knew about it. What about others in the administration? Someof them knew about it. The way they all saudi arabians moved out of america within few hours show that it is planned. All these arabs involved may have been trained with help of mossad. Osama was a pawn to attack middle east and occupy all middle east until there is no oil left. That prevents Russia and china take control of middle east.

Next in target is Iran. All these attack by Israel is lay the ground for attacking Iran after they take down syria.

Believe me , it is coming!.

Read Truman's diary to understand what he thought about Jews. Here is the link.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/trumandiary1.html

Humans are grown above religion in this century. Humans no longer need religion to live life. Religion was necessary to keep peace before. Now religion is a the source of evil things commited against humans.

The only way we can escape this nonsense is Move to TITAN. SPace travel. 40 years of no development in space. Humans are wasting time in killing each other and stupid power.

It is time to think above religion on GOD.
God was created to keep people from fighting themself and stop human suicide. God was source of inspiration. It is no longer true except for stupid, idiotic fanatic people.

The real isnpiration is UNIVERSE. There is so much to learn , so little time.

Stop these stupid war , lets get on with space travel. hahaha.

Where was antigravity vehicle? come on people.

What? We'd all been told that America and the American president Truman was the
hero and savior of the jews. (see Truman diary link above.) We need a redo of history, it seems, written by truthers.

Let's pray for peace and stop the killings of innocent people from both sides!

As I sit here in Beirut, I want to make very clear my opinion. I am not happy what Israel is doing. But I must say that in public. In private, I have no problem with Israel and may of my friends secretly feel that way.

In private, I am glad that they are finally getting rid of H1zbullah. Hizbullah has done NOTHING for this country and WE ALL know that they want to bring radical Islam from Iran inside our country.

We will not let it happen. Hizbollah must be defeated.

Aziz: I am positive you are a Sunni and hate the Shia Hizbollah. At least Nasrallah is fighting to give the arabs some dignity. You should join him if you have any pride in being an Arab.

Zaid, you are a traitor. I am not a muslim or against israel or jews.

What israel does will not help lebanon. It only start Civil war in lebanon. You can't eliminate hizbollah or muslims by killing them. People are innocent. It is the ideology that has to be killed. You can't achieve this by gruesome killing of innocent civilians by Israelis.

It is unacceptable behaviour!.

Israel should have used it to blame syria and made them eat their own medicine. It is easy to do things when the world opinion in your favour.

But atpresent Israel looks like aggressor and terrorist. It is actually. Because of stupid right wing jews in Israel.

If you really see Iran shia muslim are less extremist compares to Shias. Arabs are quiet because they are sunnis. They hate shias. Stupid arabs.

No one should condone murder of innocent civiliads. Greater good is biggest EVIL of all.

With america's might , you can achieve peace anywhere. Unfortunately that is not the goal. Even in Iraq, america can achieve peace. America have to leave Iraq.

That is not the goal. The goal is occupy middle east permanently forever like in japan and north korea.

As long as oil in middle east , America has to occupy and control the region.

Israel is used as a pawn to start trouble when necessary.I believe I think that is the goal based on every Israels actions so far.

And blame it on muslims for every trouble. Instigate them , muslims react and blame them for every trouble in that region.

There are places where muslims are real terrorists.In Russia, China border state and Pakistan. America ignore them because that is not america's concern.

In middle east the trouble starter is Israel.

As I sit here on the moon trying to avoid falling into one of the many hole..........aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!

For all the Jew lovers...Jonathan Pollard, Jew,(currently in US jail) worked for the CIA, spying for Israel!

It's always sad to hear from modern day nazis and jew-haters. You are so full of hate and venom that it boggles the mind. You blame and scapegoat this small group of people for practically everything that is wrong with the world. I am ethically half jewish, and am an athiest (or agnostic at best).

I don't think you could possibly know how it feels to have people blame your people for all evils throughout history. I don't think you would be capable of such hate if you knew what it felt like.

Jews just want to live and have normal lives like everybody else in the world. I think the people who hate jews the most are actually scared that jews are trying to take over the world. Well, they're not.

Maybe, just maybe, one day you will have an experience that will change the way you think, and free you from your insane hatred.

Peace.

I meant "ethnically half jewish," not "ethically."

The root cause of current problems in the world goes back to the British. Their philosophy of divide and conquer created Kashmir and Israel and separated Kuwait from Iraq. The sun has set on the British Empire and Tony is sucking up to Bush for attention!

Why don't the Jews live peacefully on someone els's land instead of the mid east? I am an atheist and I think Jews are the worst kind. Remember Sharon and the massacre of Sabra and Shatilla in Lebanon? Remember that Rabin was killed by his own people. Read the Truman diaries.

When you have a malignant cancerous tumor in your body, you have to get rid of it to survive.

He who kills children (as colateral damage) shall pay a price down the road. Thats the law of the Universe...what goes around comes around.

I really think after watching lebanon getting pounded by american weapons , Iran will smuggle out few crude nukes out of Iran and sent to syria to use against Israel in future when every one forgot after Israel occupies lebanona nd syria. Then one fine morning Tel aviv explodes.

America has to remove nuke weapons from Iran and pakistan.

Both have nukes. And these people do anything for religion. Religion comes above their country and its people.

Do not underestimate muslims. They will deliver the punch when they get a chance. If you check every history of muslim empires , you will a pattern. Whoever strike first they win. They never afraid to kill their own. Religion comes first before wife , son and country.

The longer america wait for Iran to develop nukes , the more danger it will become.

I really think Israel wants syria to get into WAR and hope syria provoke israel by helping hizbollah. I can see why america is waiting. If i am syria , wait until world turns against Israel. Even arab states will wake up from their slumber.

For me the only issue is remove nukes from Iran and pakistan. Islamic bomb is not only danger to israel. it is danger to every country.

Israel can have peace anytime they wants to. It is just used to instigate war to sell american weapons. i don't like the concept of american war based economy. I think it is evil!.

Alex, I'm guessing that you live a very unhappy life and nobody looks up to you. You're also probably the kind of guy who hurt animals when he was a kid, and enjoys watching crap like Faces of Death. I picture you as far from handsome, working a low-status job, and devoid of any creativity or original thought. In short, your words have created a very clear picture of you, the loser.

Hating others won't make you a better person. You need to forgive yourself, Alex, and work on improving your own life. Let go of the hate.

Alex, I'm guessing that you live a very unhappy life and nobody looks up to you. You're also probably the kind of guy who hurt animals when he was a kid, and enjoys watching crap like Faces of Death. I picture you as far from handsome, working a low-status job, and devoid of any creativity or original thought. In short, your words have created a very clear picture of you, the loser.

Hating others won't make you a better person. You need to forgive yourself, Alex, and work on improving your own life. Let go of the hate.

I did read a few of the comments. Hard to understand all. You have to be in the same "shoes" as the writer to comprehend -- the problem/s. No resolution in sight. Why? Because we are humans. And regular humans have limited "immediate resolution capacities." My suggestion -- let the arab population stop multiplying itself-- ditto for the Israel-i population. Then there will not be "next generation" to hate each other's existence. After 50 yrs. pass by -- let's review the situation again -- will it disappear from the map or will it be "plus ca change plus c'est la meme chose." The solution is to put "love" inside the brain...Voila. I rest my case.

The foundation of Israel is the law of the strongest. Having nuclear arms, and ever better ties with China, Israel will be the strongest in the region for centuries to come, even after a decline of the US. The palestinians will end like the aborigines in australia, the amerindians in north america, and, probably, the tibetans in china.

Who do i hate?.

I don't think i hate anyone. All i see is the problem facing the civilized world with Ideology of ISLAM. World will be hijacked and blackmailed if all muslim states have nukes.

That is the reality. World will never let that happen.

People are innocent if you remove the mask of religion. Religion makes people evil.

You may ask the same thing said of christianity. Well there is a difference. All christian nations are secular. You can't find one majority muslim nation as secular. Only India is secular but the majority is hindus.

What i don't like is innocent civilians killed. Israel is doing evil now. They are killing to make syria react , so they can attack syria. Disarming hizbollah is a joke. Who is hizbollah ? They are lebanese shia muslims. You can't eliminate all muslims. That will be massacre. That will be pure EVIL.

I don't hate anyone. i hate stupid ideology from both sides.

We do not need religion to survive no longer. religion makes people do evil things? Who wrote these religion? Humans. Why? To keep peace and make people stop fighting themself. Bring order within mass.

Everything has its age. Each religion has its time. The time is over for all religion. DO i think muslims are evil? As a people , everyone innocent. Beliefs make people do evil things.

The only religion has to be FREEDOM OF THOUGHT!. That is the only way as humans we can grow.

Even right wing christianism will go away. If you see in america with bush incharge, he vetoes the stem cell research. That is anti-science act. These Conservative power will grow until there will be breaking point among masses. People will tolerate upto a certain extent. Most people are moderate. Hillary clinton will win the next election and all bush policies will be reversed.

Anyone who shuns growth will face defeat in time.

I don't know why you say i have hate?. I am just telling both sides of the story in my view.

There are a lot of really nasty scary people int he world. And it appears a large portion live in my neighbour to the south. Israel is an arrogant, racist, violent thug. It is not hard to understand why they are popular among so many of the posters here.

A prediction: This will not end the attacks on Israel any more than the last invasion of Lebanon, or the last invasion of Gaza or the last invasion of the west bank, or the second last invasion, etc. The only end will come when there is justice and respect for arabs as well as Israelis in the middle east.

What if Hitler got reincarnated in the Middle East? How would he handle the situation?

Stop press - Iran and Syria supply arms to the Hezbollah guerillas!!

I guess its in reply to the US supplying arms to Israel since 1948.

Ari Verneer:

China, if it is smart will work with the Arabs to get rid of Israel. It needs the Oil more than the greedy Jews.

Do Israelis think, I wonder? Or are they the blood crazed, rampaging savages they appear to be? The whole centuries-weary world hates them for their behavior, now certainly including Americans now who did not before. As tney bomb Christians sections and Americans in Lebanon with no hesitation. And rampage on. That makes them safer down the road? Nope.

ARI VERNEER! I applaud you for telling the truth. That the ugly Israelis, having sucked the respect and ALL THE ARMS AND MONEY out of the US they think they can, would then gladly petition China to work against us. Our great friend. But the canny Chinese won't go. You think they're stupid?

Pounding on the Palestenians and Lebanese self respect and treating them like sub-humans is the only rule of law the government of Israel has been practising (rather effectively). I wish the energy expended in this aggressive behaviour could be harnessed for much more peaceful purposes.

Did Olmert think he had to prove his manhood to his Poppy too? Israel has killed hundreds of Lebanese civilians to deal with two kidnapped soldiers. Israel has also killed 6 or so Canadians. How many Israelis does Canada get to kill?
Hezbollah was a creature of Israel's last invasion of Lebanon. I wonder what this latest attempt at bombing Lebanon back to the stone age will create?
No one will appear more surprised and disappointed than Bush when the Lebanese government collapses as a result of this over-reaction. And what was that he said about democracies don't attack democracies?
On the bright side, now that Bush's Middle East road map has been shredded, he can spend the rest of his lame duckness focusing on vital domestic matters, like keeping the gay flag burners from getting married.

OK I just looked at these pictures ...

http://fromisrael2lebanon.com/

I've got to say - olmert and your murdering thugs would have to evolve for another 1000 lifetimes to even be considered pond scum...and for all of you who are defending this you are just as bad if not worse...

this is not about religion its about murder...

yes they do sh*tty things to you guys too -I've said before anyone who dispatches another human being especially a child to kill and maim others is a worthless piece of sh*t but this shows you are no better than them no matter what high minded ideals you claim to possess..

Shame on you all..

and to youtube - you are a sorry ass bunch of sphincters...

hezbollah is holding two soldiers hostage and Israel is holding all of Lebanon hostage. Bombing Lebanon will only allow Hezbollah to be the "saviors" Israel is wrong and murderous.

Hezbollah and Hamas have never been serious about achieving peace. The events occurring now were provoked by their actions and they are now reaping the whirlwind. I have no sympathy for them at this point and completely understand Israel's response.

Well Otis -

Do you have any sympathy for the dead children or do you consider them to be unfortunate victims of the "whirlwind"?

I will feel sympathy for them. But ultimately I see the responsibility for their deaths resting with Hezbollah and Hamas. They instigated this latest confliuct and therefore they bare the responsibility for its catastrophic results.

oops - that previous comment was from me, not Angus

Who would want war?
To those with aggression in their posted views, safe in the knowledge of anonymity please take a moment to think. Would I want war?

If this climate of fear and aggression continues, from both 'sides', bleak days will come to us all.
Compassion and understanding.

If only Adolf had not spreed himself so thin by going to Russia, then Lebanon would not be having these problems.

You should think about that the next time you look at he children in your life that you care about - do you think for a moment that the kids in these photos had selected a side -

I suppose your sympathy means something but a huge part of me feels that you're tactitly condoning this - by blaming hezbollah/hamas/iran/syria you are distancing yourself from the fact that it's israeli that did the damage..

These children did not choose a side or do anything wrong. Their deaths are tragic. And i think Hezbollah and Hamas have that blood on their hands.
You want to blame Israel for the 'damage' but seem to place no responsibility or blame for what is happening with Hezbollah or Hamas. Do you feel they are responsible in any way for what is happening right now? by blaming Israel for what is happening you absolve Hezbollah and Hamas, who are the instigators of the current conflict.

I see BUSH and Israel blame Hizbollah for instigating attack. For me it is simple. Israel provoking them by taking food of palestenians by taking all the money.

Muslim understand only force and i don't mind Israel using force on hizbollah.

What BUSH and Israel doing is shameful. They are Barbaric murderers in my view. Simple as that.

Taking fight to Hizbollah is one thing , Killing civilians without even care of the human life shows that these people are as bad as muslim extremists.

The reason Israel killing civilians is to occupy that lebanon area as buffer zone.

My problem is how do ISraelis think they can live without fear by occupying someones land?.

World is shocked by Israelis killing and they are more shocked by America aggreeing to this murder.

I believe this going to make Iran accept any proposal from america. They will realize without nukes they will be annihilated just the way lebanon is. So iran will attack and go down with glory and take out as many israelis with nukes.

World need leadership , Atpresent it looks like COWBOY country. If you shoot first , you win. Simple as that. Iran will be learning and watching this from world reaction. They are isolated by own muslims because they are shias and world act coward infront of this grusome murderes by Israel.

I started to sense NEOCONS wants to use nuke on someone and flex their power and show their hegemony over the world. They are starting a fight and provoke iran to do something stupid.

I am not predicting Gloom or Doom. The only country that used nuke will use nuke again.
That too as pre-emptive strike. I would n't surprised about that if it happen.

I believe iran is buying time to make nukes to save itself. Iran has only target that is Israel.

I would n't be surprised if america preemptively nuke Iran to show North korea that will of america and bring fear among all the other countries.

China will be watching....

Not at all Otis -

I blame you all - the big difference is that the israeli/jewish side feels it is morally acceptable because in your eyes someone else started it - your bombs ended these lives.

It is NOT acceptable - if you believe that you are scum no matter what side of the fence you sit on.

Angus - you did not answer my question. Do you feel Hezbollah or Hamas shoulder any of the blame for what is currently going on?

I did - "I blame you all"

the rest speaks for itself..

Yesterday, I read in the New York Times that 3,000 Iraqi civilians were killed -- by their fellow Muslims, of course -- LAST WEEK ALONE! Why aren't all of the people wringing their hands over the 250 civilians killed in Lebanon upset
about that?!

Who is 'you all'? You wording seems to be intentionally vague.

Let's remember, though, it was Hezbollah who crossed into Israeli territory and killed and kidnapped Israeli soldiers. This was an overt, agressive act of war. Israel has the right to react to such an act militarily. And the responsibility for the repercussions lies with Hezbollah.

Angus,
What I do think about is that any aggression from any side be it Jew or Gentile can only bring futile results, continuing the cycle of violence. As they say bombing for peace is like f***ing for virginity.
I take no one 'side', I take all sides equally. You may say the benifit of a view from a distance, maybe so.
but again,
Compassion and understanding.

Good for you Otis -

Sounds like you can live with your rationale - killing kids is fine as long as you can say "the other side started it"..

Alex -

I agree wholeheartedly at some point though someone has got to be the grown up.

It is an unfortunate part of war that there are civilian casulaties.

Interesting you don't seem very worked up about the Israeli children killed by suicide bombers or the Hezbollah rockets being heaved out of Lebanon and into Israel, or, as was pointed out earlier, the Iraqis who have been killed by other Iraqis and Arabs.

But your continual dodging of questions and intentionally vague answers show htat you have no interest in real dialogue, but only in painting Israel as the villain and agressor, when in fact they were only reacting to an overt, agressive act.

I do not understand why people still try to justify the murder on innocent people/children. There is simply no justification for it.

Wednesday alone 60+ civilians and 1 Hezbollah warrior were murdered by Israel.
This is what Israel calls targeted killing?

NOT IN MY NAME!!!!!!!!!!

I am sick of our elected officials pretending Americans are standing behind this BRUTAL war against civilians.

We don't lock people when we are merely 'think they commited a crime', but we allow Israel to blow them into pieces based on 'suspicion'. What the hell is going on in this world?

Pick up the phone and call your Representatives and the White HOUSE and tell them: NOT IN MY NAME.

I expected this kind of gruesome behaviour from Israel. Israel is doing this from 1945. America is witnessing it now.

The problem now though that most of right wing mozzad agents from Israel become America's policy makers.

America is hijacked by right wing jews especially in policymaking circles and media and newspaper outlet editors.

All the innocent lebanese blood is on Americas hands. What bothers me is Israel is killing innocent civilians with american weapons. The blood is on america's hands.

I believe this will come back and bite back. Karma.

I started to believe the Gravitational force around earth creates these war. It messes up peoples mind and hungry for human blood. i know there is no proof of that. But how can you the bomb on apartment building other than being insane.

Why Israel wants to behave just like a terrorist?. This is a mystery to me. May be this is what they were doing to palestenians for years and we did n't have much chance to know it before as it was controlled by israel.

It seems like all palestenians are under house arrest in Israel and tortured everyday of suspecion of terrorist. It has to be true after watching Israel murder innocent civilians and Bush condoning the killing of innocent civilians. This is real ugly behaviour from lonely superpower.

Not agood sign for humanity!.

"My neighbours are terrorist, barbarians, theives, extremist, murderers...but I love living here, side by side with them..." - Israel.

Confusing...

Or,

"Anybody, please. Does anybody knows a place to rent? I can't stand my neighbours. They cross my fence. They steals my oranges. They mess up my lawn. They stare at us, threaten us...anybody?" - Israel

Matt,

Give them back their house. Seems to me that they have every right to "stare" and "threaten" you as long as you are occupying them and cutting of their basic services at a whim. - Pakistani for Palestine.

I see that there is basically one opinion here, and it's a message of hatred without understanding history. You should all learn to read and get yourself some good, objective history books. It's not even worth commenting to people who are so intelluctually unarmed.

Matt - I see you're still spewing your ridiculous hatred.

Yeah - I guess the innocent victims of the rockets sent to Israel by Hezbollah don't count, do they?

Stephanie - don't try and reason with the folks here - it appears they are incapable or unwilling.

They are anti-Israeli at any cost and place no blame or responsibilty on Hezbollah, Hamas, or the Palestinians at all.

Even the Arab League rebuked Hezbollah for starting this action. But no these folks.

But I believe the folks in here are agents with their own agendas to forward. They focus solely on civilian casualties that, while unfortunate are also unavoidable, in an effort to polarize people against Israel.

Angus speaks in intentionally vague terms to prevent himself from criticising anything that has been done from the non-Israeli side, and Alex is either completely uninformed when it comes to this topic or is intentionally being misleading for his own reasons. either way they are beyond reasoned argument.

George Bush's hands are dripping grotesquely with blood. He's the perfect Israeli. The rest of the world, and most Americans are wretching. And who will sympathize with us this time when ben Laden strikes again to pay back again. God, who we have fallen so low and are spirling downward.

I start to understand that there is a muslim problem everywhere around the world that is due to islam. <-- this is the one i think world should worry about.

But also there is another problem. That is with israel. Israel took over palestenian land and put them under house arrest for 60 years. I think the existance of israel is wrong. Doing that to indians may worked in america. It will never work against muslims.

Israel is america's 51st state. That will not make it safe.

It is about freedom. Freedom of palestenian people and their land.

By knowing muslims whole idea of thinking , if you give an inch to muslims , they will ask for more until you are extinct. So Israel in a position that it can't give up things under Terror. There will be no end to it.

I am torned.

What i want israel not to do is killing of civilians. There has to be a difference betweem muslims and Israelis. High moral ground. Mulims will be muslims. Fanatical self hypnotised stupid believers who will do gruesome act in the name of allah. They are like remote keyed robots when they say "Jihad". No brain.

Someone has to teach them life is more important than GOD. if you die there is no God for you.

Anyway there is no leadership in Israel and america.

No one can win war without world's support!. Israel should n't be the aggressor. It has to be a victim of terrorism.

Even idea of israel in the middle of middle east is a wrong one. That has happened 60 years ago. Israel can't leave that place because it will be called muslim victory. That will be seed for future wars. So Israel must stay until Islam accepts Democracy is the rule of law and not KORAN!.

It is time to modernize koran and keep islam alive. You have to change with time. Or you will be uprooted like a tree in flooding river.

World has to confront this enemy directly and solve it once for all. Instead they keep killing innocent civilians in the name of beliefs!.

Stephanie--Read objective history of Israel and the Jews so we will be informed, like you are?
You better hope no one does...clearly you haven't. It is disgusting, savage, it obscene. The latest chapter is only more and your silly words don't help.

Why don't all of you who have spewed forth this vile hatred of jews grow some balls and join the nazi party publicly. Get off your keyboard and quit your anonymous posts and get out there and proclaim your views in public. You are ugly, vicious cowards.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with legitimate criticism of Israel (or any country, for that matter), but what many of you are writing goes FAR beyond that. You are as cowardly as the Hezbollah terrorists who use civilian shields as cover.

Step up and be counted as the Nazis you are. Let us see who you are. State these views in public.

Alex, what kindergarten did you fail out of? Your (lack of) skill at writing mirrors the (lack of) intelligence evident in your posts. Can we at least get an explanation for your poor writing? Are you a non-English speaker? Is this a Downs Syndrome issue? Help me understand.

Please, get an education (and possibly a brain transplant) before sharing any more of your views with the general public.

Otis (MichaelO?) Stephanie etc. etc.

The people who sent rockets from Lebanon into Israel to kill innocent civilians are scumbags....worthless ..have no right exist on this planet...

The people who sent bombs from Israel to Lebanon are scumbags...worthless...have no right exist on this planet....

Any questions?

Two reasons why I cannot bring myself to write about the Israel problem
Notebook by Matthew Parris



A COLUMNIST without an opinion is a pitiful thing, like a windsurfer without wind. As the Israeli bombardment of Gaza and now Lebanon has intensified, I have wondered whether holding forth on every subject but this might look feeble -- though Heaven knows the world is not short of ranters on the Middle East. But when I try to compose my thoughts, the resolution to write keeps slipping: doubly undermined.
First from a feeling of boredom. The boredom arises from neither carelessness nor apathy, but the quiet anger we may feel when a subject is endlessly and passionately debated by disputants who are unlikely to change their minds and -- if the truth be known -- mentally armoured against opposing thoughts. The rest of us wish we could walk away.

This conflict has flickered and flared across the daily news through most of my adult life, and I have sometimes wondered whether it will be viewed by future historians rather as the ancient battles over the Corn Laws or Catholic Emancipation are now seen: intrinsically important issues of vast consequence for some, but where even the uninvolved took sides with a passion that succeeding ages have found hard to share. I have even wondered whether, if we in Europe could agree to take no further notice of the story (as we have taken no notice, for instance, of the uncounted dead in the conflict in Congo) it would make matters any worse.

The second is a desperately tricky thing to express. I steer clear because I have too many friends who are Jews whose feelings I don't want to hurt. You will wish to remind me that to be Jewish is not to be a supporter of everything (or anything) the state of Israel does, and of course that's true. You will point out that among the harshest critics of Israeli policy are Israeli and Jewish voices, and of course that's true too. But it's a personal observation which one cannot just brush aside that, on this, those who are Jewish tend to have much stronger feelings than others, and that they are overwhelmingly if not universally sympathetic to the Israeli cause, more inclined than most to justify the actions of Israel, and prone to feeling personally wounded if one disagrees. Such feelings inhabit some of the people I like and respect best in my life.

The problem is that I cannot agree with them. The past 40 years have been a catastrophe, gradual and incremental, for world Jewry. Seldom in history have the name and reputation of a human grouping lost so vast a store of support and sympathy so fast. My opinion -- held not passionately but with little personal doubt -- is that there is no point in arguing about whether the state of Israel should have been established where and when it was because it has become a fact. To try to remove it now would be at least as great an injustice as the one originally done to the Palestinians. But Israel's best and perhaps only security for the future would be to rest upon a settlement that everyone the whole world over -- everyone but the anti-Zionist fanatics -- could see was reasonable. There would need to be no room left for argument. Then Israel would be able to feel confident of the full-hearted support not just of governments but of their peoples.

That settlement has to be a return to her pre-1967 boundaries. Precisely because Israel is by no means forced to make so generous a move, the international support (even love) this would generate would secure her future permanently. It would bring her back within the pale.

Sadly, nations and individuals tend, by moving only when forced and never quite far enough, to keep resentments burning which, by going the extra mile, it lies within their power to extinguish.

http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0395/9503079.htm

The anti-Semites on these posts are pathetic.
Even more pathetic are the Israel-right-or-wrong crowd who contort themselves into rationalizing Israel's murderous campaign and cold-blooded killing of hundreds of innocent men, women and children.
For these bigots, Jewish lives are the only lives that count. For these bigots, Arab lives are worthless, 'collateral damage,' at best.
If this is how Israel responds to provocation, then it is destined to be at war with its neighbours for the rest of its existence.
And if this is how America responds -- by smugly backing up Israel's campaign of murder and terror -- it too is destined to be at war with the entire Arab world.
How disgusting.
How short-sighted.
How stupid.

The poster above who posts the "...nazi cowards are scum..." because they are anonymous...THEN refuses to sign his own name. He's so typical of his kind. AND ,is he wise in this climate, to encourage people to join the American nazi party or it's equivalents? Does he think they're gaining membership these last few days?

Israel is st war with Hezbollah but avoids direct confrontation. So Israel has to find other means to get rid of Hezbollah.

Now they terrorize and punish a whole nation.
The message behind Israels actions last week is simple and clear: you Libanese have to deal with Hezbollah, if you refuse, Israel will come and kill you.

Israel is terrorising and destroying a whole nation, its infrastructure, its economy, and kills innocent civilians. Civilian targets seem to be primeordal, as Israels message is being delivered.

Note that 60% of the Libanese have nothing to do with Hezbollah, 40% of the Lebanese
are Christian and the political fraction of Hezbollah only has 20% of the political seats.

Why is Israel not entering the South of Lebanon where Hezbollah strongholds are en masse and fight the ones they have to fight instead of using terror and death on innocent civilians Lebanon-wide?

Angus,

I absolutely agree with you!

It seems Israel played into Hizbullahs hands in bombing Lebanon without care to the civilians casulties that will result of it. Hizbullah with out any doubt did instigate this issue but Israel is taking full advantage of the situation with it's careless bombing.

Notice, the same message of collective punishment and terror has been delivered to the palestinians in Gaza. Also there civilian targets like roads, bridges, power stations, etc... were the first targets.

My point is:

Some of you knows the Arabs are poor & stupid. And some of you claims Israelis are rich & intelligent.

So? Get divorce! This marriage are doom to failures from the start! Everybody is trying to force the issue that these 2 entities can live together! Everybody is trading blames, reasons, bullets, deaths, Anti-Semites, Anti-Islam, religious beliefs, excuses, victims, etc. just to justify whatever happens. What else?

A small girl told her Mom & Dad, "You guys quarrel a lot. Why don't you guys get seperated. People around us are saying things. I'm already getting insane!". So, her Mom who is clerk and uneducated got to stay in the house. Her Dad who is a director of some company moved out & built another life with some other woman. Then the girl said to herself. "When I'm getting married, I'll make sure the guy loves me and I loves him. And get everybody's blessing".

The End. Get the point?

HORRAY! The UN High Commissioner is talking about criminal liaibility in
Lebanon. That's War Criminal liability.
God, how the world would love to see the
blood thirsty Isralis hauled (kicking and screaming) before an international war crimes court. It's long past time.

GO ISRAEL!!!!

Ha! The UN. What a joke of an organization! Like they can ever do anything worthwhile. Israel is doing a great job at ridding the world of some horrible, barbaric people! It should have been done years ago. And the Lebanese government has been powerless or too cowardly to take care of the festering problem in its borders. Israel is doing the world a favor. All you people spewing your hatred towards Israel should just come out and say that you hate Jews. Then you can look in the mirror and see what you really have to offer humanity. Nothing.

I posted this as a partial response to Michael O. in an earlier forum. He did not respond. I assume that is because there is no credible response to the assertion I was making regarding the settlements and their effect on Islamic World terrorism and because he himself admits that the settlements should go as well.

I am shocked at the irony of the situation due to recent developments in Lebanon. Osama Bin Laden said that he conceived of the 9/11 attacks when he saw the towers in Lebanon burning and all of the innocent people inside being incinerated. I wonder who is developing similar plans as the Israelis unleash hell on earth against an almost entirely innocent civilian population once again and the US continues to support these crimes against humanity? God willing, an administration will be voted into office in the US that has the moral strength and vision to cut off all funding to Israel until such time as all settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem have been removed before we suffer more completely avoidalbe 9/11 like events all in the name of protecting teh settlement movement.

Once we do that groups like Hamas and Hezbollah will go out of business because the settlements and the occupation are the oxygen that keeps them in money and fresh recruits. Remove the settlments and you remove their entire recruiting philosophy.

Here is the response given to Michael O. regarding the relationship between the Israeli settler movement and Islamic world terrorism:

"I suppose I can base my beliefs about the relationship between The Israeli settler movement and world terrorism on several sources:

1) I have quoted him many times before. Here I go again. Bill Clinton (after he was out of office and able to tell the truth again) said that a fair and equitable end to the Israeli Palestinian conflict would "Remove the philosophical underpinning of middle eastern terrorist recruitment."

2) You are probably already very aware of how Jimmy Carter Feels. You may try to make light of his views (As many pro settlement people do, but he was President of the US and he knows a great deal more about the situation than you do.

3) Colin Powell is in agreement

4) virtually every country in the world condemns the settlements and acknowledges their serious contribution to the problem of world terrorism as evidenced by a great many UN resolutions.

5) Tony Blair stated before the US congress after 9/11 that there will never be an end to the war on terrorisn until there is an end to the Palestinian Conflict (ie, the end of the settlements)

7) Osama bin laden simply cannot shut up about how he thought up the plan for 9/11 when he saw the towers in Beirut burning (thanks to the israeli invasion, thanks to to the settler movement)and about how inspired he is by the plight of the Palestinian people.

So, I glean my position on the effects that the setlement movement has had on world terrorism by looking at the opinions of past (and to some extent present) Presidents of the US, almost the entire population of the world including many of their leaders (including our closest ally in the war in Iraq) and the very terrorists that are now attacking our soil
due to our participation in maintaining the subjugation of the Palestinin people while paying to help to grow the settlements.

Regarding all the doubletalk about whether to use the green line or not, how the settlments started historically and all related attempts to charactorize a crime against humanity that virtualy the entire world condemns as some sort of misunderstanding, I am simply not going to bother discussing it. Even you yourself admit that it should and will come to an end. So why not sooner than later?

Here are some immediate benefits to quitting all settlements, east Jerusalem, and rebuilding the wall on the green line.

The entire family of legitimate nations welcomes Israel back into the fold. The US and Israel finally gain some semblence of the moral highground. The US can stop paying Israel the huge amount of yearly welfare that it takes to maintain the costly and pointless occupation.

Terrorism will be reduced by this action. both in Israel (again, please see the rationale and suport for this view above) and worldwide (To quote Osama bin Laden, if we simply hated freedom, why did we not attack, say Sweden?). This move will reduce terrorism because it will reduce terrorist recruitment. (again see rationale above)

The Occupation and the settlement movement are the oxygen that keeps Hamas and Hezbollah alive and also gives the blowhards in Iran and Syria something to dazzle the people with so they forget what crappy circumstances they actually live in.

So, yes I do lay a good portion (not all, but a good Portion) of Islamic world terrorism at the settlement movements feet (not at the feet of Israel, as many Israelis despise the Settler movement as much as most of the rest of the world does.) And I do not blame Israel for any thing else, so you can save the attempts to insinuate that I am somehow anti semitic. In fact I blame the US at least as much as the Settlement movement, in that we have payed for it and tacitly defended it when it would have folded like a buggy whip company without 40 years of welfare to sustain it."

J

GO ISRAEL!

Craemer, the UN high commission won't do anything. it is clear that Israel was provoked into action by the actions of Hezbollah. There will be no war crimes trial for Israel. And Lebanon will have to do somethign to disarm/dismantle Hezbollah before any real progress will occur.

Otis, dear. You don't know anything about anything. That's all too clear. "The UN
High Commission won't do anything"? Well, THEY think they will. But you know better, or course, being who you are.
By the way Israel had planned their rampage for six years, ever since they were forced to leave Lebanon. The soldier's capture, IF it happened, was a ruse. Everyone knows.

Mr. Morley,

About time for a new post. 300+ comments on this one, and all but a handful are the same old, same old....I hate Israel, I hate the Muslums, poor Palestinians, poor Jews, you're a Nazi, no I'm not, etc. etc. ad nauseum. So please, new subject.

Craemer -
Are you that gullible that you believe the stuff that you're printing? "Everyone knows?"

You so unbelievable that I can barely comment on it. Israel didn't need to wait 6 years to plan an attack on Lebanon. If they had wanted to, they could have attacked Lebanon any time. That's not the reason Israel has done the great thing it's doing. Israel is cleaning house, which is what the weak Lebanese government has failed to do all this time.

Craemer -
Are you that gullible that you believe the stuff that you're printing? "Everyone knows?" Ha!

You are so unbelievable that I can barely stand to comment. Israel didn't need to wait 6 years to plan an attack on Lebanon. If they had wanted to, they could have attacked Lebanon any time. That's not the reason Israel has done the great thing it's doing. Israel is cleaning house, which is what the weak Lebanese government has failed to do all this time.

Oh, craemer, you are just another clueless web demagogue. Your dearth of knowledge would be humorous were the issue not so serious.

'IF' the kidnappings/murders occurred? Please. The Arab League and the UN have already acknowledged that Hezbollah instigated this whole conflict, so let's not play the role of conspiracy theorist, OK? Perhaps more lithium would help your affliction

And it is true, I cannot not be sure that the UN High Counsel will do nothing. But mine was a prediction, not assertion of fact. And my prediction is that nothing substantive will come of your hopeful thoughts of criminal liability.

No, Hezbollah is to blame for what is going on and the blood is on their hands.

ONCE AND FOR ALL - - - HEZBOLLAH IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION THAT HAS CARRIED OUT ATTACKS AGAINST PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD. ISRAEL HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF AGAINST ACTS OF TERROR TOWARDS ITS PEOPLE, ITS LAND AND ITS EXISTENCE. GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT, PEOPLE!!!

What worries me is that Israelis did n't give these civilians time to live before attack. After killing 350 innocent people gruesomely , they are waking up and telling thepeople leave.

Even though i want to support Israel but in this case Israel is wrong and the anger of population will grow.

People never forget the deaths of their kins. There will be a revenge. When that happen israerl will attack syria and plunge more people into chaos.

The whole idea of existance of Israel is to eliminate muslims people in middle east. People balme jews this and that. They are using american weapons and american trained. they are doing america's dirty war as a proxy.

Even though i don't favour of growth of islam and existance of islam and i don't thimk muslim people are humans . They are innocent. it is just that they are controlled and taken over by the virus koran.

They go to each country and spread, they never follow any countrys laws. If it is not islam what they do? They need hope. They need a path.

You can't pummel muslims by saying islam is evil...you have to have alternative for these people as well.

I really think you can't solve any of these religious nonsense until we as humans travle and move to another planet. Then religion will become invalid.

I still think it is time to modernize koran and give power to woman in islam. They have been controlled and treated like men's puppet who-re. The role given by islam to woman is a narrow minded. It was necessary in 6th century. Not now.

Everyone is equal. Every should have same freedom of thought.

One thing you never get rid off. Rich and poor. Rich will always have different laws as they kill and escape. Israel does things because it feels it can escape and manipulate media in america.

All Fundamentalists are EVIL in america , israel and muslims countries. They all same.

I started to think there is a CRUSADE going on. Nukes...terrorists are all bogus media babble.

Alex -
What?? I suppose you have some sympathy for the 9/11 terrorists as well????

GO ISRAEL!!!

Otis:

"The Arab League and the UN have already acknowledged that Hezbollah instigated this whole conflict, so let's not play the role of conspiracy theorist, OK?"

The Arab League was split on this.

Syria, Algeria, Yemen, Qatar stood by Hezbollah. Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain and Kuwait supported the Saudi position.

The 275-member Iraqi Parliament issued a statement calling the Israeli strikes an act of "criminal aggression." The Iraqi President also condemned what he called "Israeli aggression" and also called on the Arab league to act to stop Israeli killings.

As an Arab (from Morocco), I can tell you that if we had true democracy, our representatives in the governments would have cut the oil off until the terrorist state of the Middle East respects UN resolutions.

In the mean time, I can on people to BOYCOTT ISRAEL.

That's the least we can do.

I meant to write:

I call on people to boycott Israel.

Sorry about the typo.

Although hezbollah provoked the fight. Israel needs to deliver the extremist islamics a message. hate and destruction as a mission statement and the sole reason for existence is unaceptable.
If you hate, you have to tolerate. hating should never lead to "extermination", "wiping of the map" as the crazy iranian terrosrist wants.
peace will happen if both sides love life and stop hating more.

And now for some (more) ethnic cleansing....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13929959/

9/11 is planned by MOZZAD!. All americans are duped by them.

Even though i do think islam has to be modernized and stop it becoming a virus against human civilization. That is aside.

America is hijacked by RightWing jews. Jews are not evil but rightwing jews shows a evilside i see only in extreme fanatical muslims.

I believe there are better ways to modernize islam instead of looking at muslims thorough Israels prism.

This is the reason there has to be two superpower to bring balance to the world.

America is behaving like a bully. Killing of civilians should be never be condoned.

Especially by superpower. BUSH is an idiot!.

Wow!
Actually, Alex, you are the idiot (and I am no fan of Bush).
Mozzad engineered 9/11?!
Step away from the keyboard and try and gain some perspective please.

Alex-
9/11 was planned by Mossad???? (Check the spelling!) Wow! I'm really impressed. You give Israel way too much credit. And their motive would be what?? Seriously, you must not have a shred of sanity. It's just too spectacular a comment. I can't imagine how you can go through life spewing the nonsense you post.

Since you seem to lack any sense of patriotism, I think you should give up your American citizenship and attempt to live in one of the wonderful Middle East countries (definitely NOT Israel, of course!) and see how you fare. Try to pick one that has the closest thing to a democracy if that's possible. Best of wishes to you!

Methinks otis is saxyboy - check out the arrogant style from other similar blogs..

Hey Angus -
Otis' "arrogant style" is a refreshing balance to the ignorance and hatred that is being posted here.

Keep up the good work, Otis. It's a losing battle with the type of people who are responding, but I understand how important it is to at least get people to attempt to think outside their little minds.

Of course Voice of Reason - I am sure you are one of the people who are supporting the murderous regime of combover Olmert -

Now you have wiped out the K-7 brigades of Hezbollah time for a spot of Ethnic cleansing on the Grandparents..

It must be wonderful to be able to absolve yourself of any remorse over the killing of innocent children by simply saying "they started it and they are using civilians as a shield"

So let me ask you this - a man has shot at a policeman and kills him or wounds him - he then holds a child in front of him as he makes his escape - are the policeman's colleagues justified in shooting the child because he is in the way of the shooter?

Btw the cowardly idf routinely uses Palestinians as human shields while doing house to houses..

Voice - Thanks. This has become a pro-Hezbollah forum, being controlled, i think, by two or three users who are anti-Israeli. The consistencies in the bad spelling and grammar is a major clue.

Angus is an idiot. his examples and hypotheticles are flawed from the onset; his reasoning is flawed; his motives are quite transparent.

He continually condemns Israel for the deaths of Lebanese and Palestinian civilians, yet he never mentions the rockets blindly fired into Israel out of Lebanon, the responsibility of Hezbollah for the current situation, or the inability of the Lebanese govt to reign in Hezbollah.

No, it is all Israel's fault. Wait until he spills some milk - Israel and Mossad probably orchestrated the whole thing. It is rediculous and Angus' credibility is nil.

(Though I do love how he choose the very anglo name 'Angus' as a cover!)

Well Said saxyboy/otis - now do you remember this posting from earlier:

Otis (MichaelO?) Stephanie etc. etc.

The people who sent rockets from Lebanon into Israel to kill innocent civilians are scumbags....worthless ..have no right exist on this planet...

The people who sent bombs from Israel to Lebanon are scumbags...worthless...have no right exist on this planet....

Any questions?

Posted by: Angus | July 20, 2006 10:45 AM

I know you must subscribe to Goebels greater lie theory - keep saying the same old sh*t long enough and people will believe it....

I did notice you failed to respond to that earlier why not now?

You are condoning an army that is murdering children daily ....does that make you proud? It sure seems to - do you get some kind of vicarious thrill because you used to get pushed around in high school and the cheer leaders made fun of you...

do you sit and read hadassah at night and have fantasies about how much of badass you are?

Btw Angus is not an ANGLO name ...I am an American of pictish descent...

I know it makes people like you feel better to think/assume that everyone here who criticises israel must be an Arab - you should wake up ....folks form all over the world have had enough of your heroes' murderous rage...

You should pay special heed to to posters earlier who stated how there formers sympathies for israelis and jews were gone ..thanks to the genocidal policies of successive israeli governments...

zionism is racism and zionists are racists...

I also understand why you changed your name ..on various blogs I have seen you out argued bu Karim ...humbled by J and crushed by Notice...

Voice of Reason:

"Since you seem to lack any sense of patriotism, I think you should give up your American citizenship and attempt to live in one of the wonderful Middle East countries (definitely NOT Israel, of course!) and see how you fare"

Well if he is not Jewish, then Israel would be the wrong choice.

Non-Jews of European heritage in Israel are second-class citizens (Arabs are 3rd class, Palestinians are not even human to many Israeli).

If anyone wants to experience modern apartheid rule, then Israel would be the right choice!

quick example:

Israeli citizens who are not Jewish lose their Israeli citizenship if they take up another citizenship. This applies to even native born non-Jewish Israeli. This apartheid racist law has been used to evict Arabs out of Israel.

But...

If you are Jewish, you can take as much citizenships as you wish and still be Israeli! That is one of perks of having the right religion in Israel.

And lastly, remember the government of Israel will record your religion on your ID national card!

God bless the holy land!

Angus-

I do remember that post. Yet I also remember you calling out Olmert and others and blaming them for what is going on. Yet you have never called out Hezbollah/Hamas/etc. - the actual ones who precipitated this whole conflict.

But let's be real for a moment - I understand you want to keep the focus on dead civilians as it is a sympathetic and somewhat unassailble position. it is a great PR move for you to do this. you are trying to garner US public support, and dead women and children will do that. but it also misses the point. their deaths, while tragic, are being exploited by you, which is even more tragic. the responsibility of these deaths lie not with Israel but with Hezbollah.

Otis,

" This has become a pro-Hezbollah forum, being controlled, i think, by two or three users who are anti-Israeli."

Please show us one single comment in which Hezbollah was defended.

I am here to condemn Israeli actions that have killed a score number of civilians.

You seem to be here to defend them.

I have actually condemned Hezbollah but I can't condone what Israel is doing even if Hezbollah was wrong.

The brutality of Israel does not match Hezbollah's.

I mean they dropped tons of bombs on Beirut itself! why?

Why bomb the airport 3 times knowing they put it out of service in the first bombing? WHY?

Did you see the 2 civilians who burnt alive in the parking lot of the seaport? WHY?

Israel is a terrorist state, and if it is not then it is behaving like one.

Seriously, Angus, you are trying to call me out as a pseudo-badass and having resentment because the cheerleaders didn't ask me out (they didn't - but the cheerleaders at my highschool weren't much of a commodity)? really? that's your next argument? why not call me chicken and challenge me to a fist fight too. your like a puppy in a corner - you may bite, you may piss yourself.

BTW - Angus is a very anglo name - scotish to be sure.

I appreciate you thinking i have the time and ability to be many different users. it would make you feel better. But alas, i dissapoint.

Again, I call on honest peace-loving people to BOYCOTT Israel.

This is the only way for us people who are against violence and wars to protest this terrorist state of the Middle East.

We can't become like them and call for military action against Israel, which will eventually lead to the loss of innocent life, but we can boycott this arrogant messianic state that believes it gets its orders from God himself.

Earlier I saw on TV a group of Israeli soldiers praying while the tank next to them is firing shells. Apparently they were blessing the firing of the shells.

BOYCOTT ISRAEL.

saxyboy wrote:

"their deaths, while tragic, are being exploited by you, which is even more tragic."

Isn't this exactly what Israelis and Jews have been doing with Holocaust victims for 60 years?

Karim-

That is a good point. I would have to go through 200+ posts to check, but i htink you are probably right - hezbollah has not been defended explicitly by you or your ilk.

And I am here to defend israel - as you are here to condemn it.

hezbollah iniated this total occurence. did they do it to provoke israel in order to garner global sympathy? did they do it at the behest of iran as a distraction while they pursue nuclear ambitions? perhaps. who knows?

But the end point for this discussion is that hezbollah crossed the UN line, killed 3 israeli soldiers, and kidnapped 2 others. they iniated the conflict and they are reponsible. are there civilian casualties? yes. that blood is on the hands of hezbollah. they knew what the israeli reaction could/would be, yet they did it anyway. that is not much respect for those lives, but really just a very cynical political play.

i bet mossad planned those murders and kidnappings just like they planned 9/11!

Actually if you think we are having any effect on US Public opinion I think you are deluded..

Actually what I am trying to see is what is the limit with you guys ....clearly murdering civilians is still within a realm of acceptability to you ....you must have a limit...come on spit it out..I really don't think too many people are reading anymore...if we see an idf soldier shoot someone in the back of the head will that be too much? When you start to think ...whoa maybe we are going too far this time...

I suspect you have no limits and are willing to condone anything..

Btw your air force was also bombing Americans, Canadians, Brits, Danes, Turks etc etc etc...

While we're boycotting Israel, let's boycott the United States, which arms Israel to the teeth and stands idly by as it murders innocent men, women and children by the hundreds and destroys a country that is barely recovering from decades of civil war.
Israel has shown itself to be led by deeply evil people -- and Israeli public opinion has been revealed as dominated by a deeply evil and deluded majority -- for how else could one describe those who justify the killing of so many people, so far away, and in such disproportion to the original provocation.
But where does that leave the U.S., which for decades has armed Israel to the tune of a billion dollars a year, and which now is standing idly by and egging Israel on in its latest sick and twisted killing spree?
I once held Israel and America in high regard.
No longer.

And one more thing ....Anglo and Scot(t)ish are two very different things so please don't correct me on something you clearly know nothing about...

"But the end point for this discussion is that hezbollah crossed the UN line, killed 3 israeli soldiers, and kidnapped 2 others."

And this justifies the terror that Israel uses in this conflict? This justifies the slaughter of innocent civilians?

Hezbollah is very involved in the murder of civilians, yet you do not seem too upset by that. In fact, as a terrorist group, it is one of the main objectives of hezbollah - to strike terror into the civilian populace to get them to demand a policy change.

BTW - I don't have an airforce. i wish i did some days...

Give me some examples and I will condemn them - I have already said what I think of those that are firing missiles at Israeli civilians ...they are scum...

and this line:

"to strike terror into the civilian populace to get them to demand a policy change."

Isn't that EXACTLY what Israel is doing now?

Yes, Hezbollah has killed some civilians, which is criminal and deplorable.
It has also killed some soldiers of an occupying power (who are certainly fair game until Israel retreats back to its internationally recognized borders: if you want to put on a uniform and fight for an occupying power, don't be surprised if you get killed. It comes with the territory).
That said, Israel has killed -- just in this latest exchange -- more than 10 times as many civilians as Hezbollah.
THAT is why most fair-minded people are more disgusted with Israel than they are with Hezbollah.

Angus - you take umbrage at every point. maybe a spot in the shade would calm you down?
But I will correct you when you are wrong, which appears to be habitual for you.

Everybody knows that Hezbollah is a terror organisation and does not deserve a place on this earth.

But is this the reason why Israel would be free of commiting terror acts, when they clearly do?

"Angus - you take umbrage at every point. maybe a spot in the shade would calm you down?
But I will correct you when you are wrong, which appears to be habitual for you.

Posted by: Otis | July 20, 2006 10:50 PM "

No idea what this means but you sure seem to sidestep the questions an awful lot - its simple really isn't it - surely there must be some point at which you will theink the Israeli Army has gone too far this time?

It can't be that difficult - if you don't think they can go to far go ahead say it - this is just an opinion forum at the end of the day...I am really interested to see what the limits are for people like you and michaelo and stephanie and some of the others...really!!

Angus -

Israel has every right to defend itself, its land, its people and its existence from the threat of terrorism right on its border. Israel is a legitimate country recognized by the rest of the world. Hezbollah is a puppet terrorist group for Iran. Once Iran completes its quest for nuclear weapons, it will march those weapons right over to the Lebanese border with Israel and fire away as it pleases. Iran won't need long-range missiles to do that. And while it's HORRIBLE for the city of Beirut, Israel MUST ensure that the future of its people is safer from the imminent threat of its attempted destruction. I hate the idea of innocent people being injured and killed on BOTH sides, but it's a by-product of the conflict there. The Lebanese government should never have let Hezbollah gain such a foothold in that area, so now the problem rests with Israel (as usual).

And by the way, you're a racist yourself for equating Zionism with racism. Your claims of random IDF brutality are incorrect, and I suggest that you find some facts before you start spouting such ignorant comments.

Well I have to sleep, so i will do this in one shot:

Angus - you really need me to give you examples of hezbollah killing/maiming/terrorizing the civilian population in israel? you aren't aware of any? hold on - i'm writing a book.

Jan - what has israel done that is a terrorist act? have they stepped onto a bus with explosives strapped to their person in a civilain downtown? No - they have reacted to an aggressive act of war. you can argue if the reaction was too aggressive. but i guaruntee you that hezbollah is giddy that israel reacted as it did.

Jose - you seem to put a lot of weight on the discrepancy in numbers between the casualties. if the casulaty numbers were equal or close would you feel better? it is a rediculous argument. hezbollah knows that civilians will die when they attack israel. yet they do it anyway. they know people - innocent people - will die on account of their actions. yet they do it anyway.

"Angus - you really need me to give you examples of hezbollah killing/maiming/terrorizing the civilian population in israel? you aren't aware of any? hold on - i'm writing a book"

Well I have already condemned the missile firers so what are the other examples?

Since you dont seem to be hearing it I will say it again - hezbollah firing missiles at innocent israeli civilians and terrorising them is wrong - immoral - shameful etc etc..

So back to the same questions I asked before!!

Oh, Angus - obviously you did not get the joke (what a shock). Look umbrage up int he dictionary - perhaps illumination lies their.

But keep on blaiming israel. i would expect nothing less.

But before we depart - what issues/questions/points did i sidestep?

It can't be that difficult - if you don't think they can go to far go ahead say it - this is just an opinion forum at the end of the day...I am really interested to see what the limits are for people like you and michaelo and stephanie and some of the others...really!!

Here you go tomorrow is fine with me ...I am heading out too...

Then all i ask, Angus, is htat you make sure to include hezbollah in your criticism when you climb onto your high horse, which you have neglected to do without prompt up to thid point.

thank you voice of treason ...I was falling asleep and I needed the smell of dung to awaken me -- you supplied it...

Before you post again try getting your information from somewhere other than FOX news..

Sh*t dude - are u blind - I have done that 3 or 4 times already!!

Angus -

Do you have any idea about the amount of blood on the hands of Hezbollah WORLDWIDE?

Copied directly from the Council on Foreign Relations website:

Where does Hezbollah operate?

"Its base is in Lebanon's Shiite-dominated areas, including parts of Beirut, southern Lebanon, and the Bekaa Valley. In addition, U.S. intelligence reports say that Hezbollah cells operate in Europe, Africa, South America, and North America. Despite Israel's 2000 withdrawal from Lebanon, Hezbollah continues to periodically shell Israeli forces in the disputed Shebaa Farms border zone."

Also:

"Hezbollah and its affiliates have planned or been linked to a lengthy series of terrorist attacks against the United States, Israel, and other Western targets. These attacks include:

* a series of kidnappings of Westerners in Lebanon, including several Americans, in the 1980s;
* the suicide truck bombings that killed more than 200 U.S. Marines at their barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, in 1983;
* the 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847, which featured the famous footage of the plane's pilot leaning out of the cockpit with a gun to his head;
* two major 1990s attacks on Jewish targets in Argentina--the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy (killing twenty-nine) and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center (killing ninety-five).
* a July 2006 raid on a border post in northern Israel in which two Israeli soldiers were taken captive. The abductions sparked an Israeli military campaign against Lebanon to which Hezbollah responded by firing rockets across the Lebanese border into Israel. "

Angus -

At least I don't have to stoop to your scatological level. It definitely lowers your intelligence even further.

So why are you blowing up Lebanese children?

Otis,

the means, a suicide bomber or rockets made in the USA, it does not matter, the key point of terror is that some party uses and takes the lives of innocent civilians for its gains. This is exactly what Israel is doing now. Israel does not engage Hezbollah directly, they punish and destroy a state, its infrastructure, its economy, and kills innocent civilians.

Official death toll:
300+ civilians
9 Hezbollah warriors

Its as clear as that, Israel avoids direct confrontation with Hezbollah and punishes a whole state for the criminal acts of Hezbollah, using the very same methods Hezbollah uses: terror!

and VOR - read back a little - you will see I am not defending Hezbollah - I have critised them a number of times but you all seem to not see makes your job a that for some reason -

I am criticising the Israeli govenrments genocidal carnage being launched on the Lebanese and the citizens of a number of countries to punish them for the transgressions of others...

Goodnight

it should have said..

and VOR - read back a little - you will see I am not defending Hezbollah - I have critised them a number of times but you all seem to not see that - I suspect it makes your job easier...

Where is the blame on the TERRORIST group called Hezbollah? Once again, if those cowards would not use a city filled with civilians to plan their attacks, they wouldn't put innocent people in harm's way. They know exactly what they are doing, and they are such evil people that they are willing to sacrifice many, many innocent lives for their causes.

Terror, killing innocent civilians, for the purpose of driving a society, a country whatever, in one or another direction cannot be justified, nothing just nothing can justify it.

It's a matter of time before the U.S. suffers another big terrorist attack. If Israel didn't exist, don't you think these fanatics (like Hezbollah, al-Qaida, etc.) would be attacking Westerners? It's never-ending. We're not dealing with rational people who are partners at the peace table. You're talking about barbarians who behead people on camera while they make their demands. In America, we have yet to truly experience the kind of hideous mindset that permeates so many other areas in the world. So, if Israel needs to try to chase Hezbollah out of an area that is ON ITS BORDER, then they have to do what they have to do.

then Israel should fight directly Hezbollah instead of terrorizing whole Lebanon and destroying it.

The whole world now sees what double standards the US is using when it measures 'terror', it loses now all credibility, thanks to Israels actions.

And guess who will win from this all?

Jan -

Tell me exactly how Israel should fight with Hezbollah directly. Hezbollah is headquartered in Beirut and Southern Lebanon, and they are using civilian areas to set up their terrorist activities. How is Israel supposed to root them out? Send them an invitation to come out with their hands up?

the military wing of Hezbollah has its stronghold in the south, thats also the area from where they terrorize Israel. Its a difficult area and Israel has bad experience fighting them there.

So if Israel wants to wipe out the direct threat of Hezbollah, thats where they have to be, isnt it?

You would think... but these terrorists love to hide in schools and mosques and hospitals because they know that it's a moral issue to chase them out. They are blending in with innocent people in the population in Beirut. It's a terrible dilemna even for the Lebanese because they don't want to live with them but there's been no easy way to get rid of them.

Sure it wont be easy, I guess IDF knows too well.

But terrorising and destroying the whole of Lebanon is neither a solution, as terror should never be a means for countries who fight a 'war on terror'. If Israel cannot destroy the major part of Hezbollah now in this conflict, you know who will have won.

"It's a matter of time before the U.S. suffers another big terrorist attack. If Israel didn't exist, don't you think these fanatics (like Hezbollah, al-Qaida, etc.) would be attacking Westerners? It's never-ending. We're not dealing with rational people who are partners at the peace table. "

They might be fanatics but certainly not what you have described.

OBL made its demands very clearly before they declared war on the United States. Their demands were not irrational as you wrote.

OBL wanted the United State troops out of Saudi Arabia. Every observer and analyst knew that the majority of Saudi did not want US troops in their country. So this was not the desires of few people. Your government however acted like an authoritarian one by ignoring the legitimate wishes of the citizens of Saudi Arabia for the sake of OIL.

Now if you call this demand irrational, what would you call the Zionist demand of re-establishing a nation that existed 2000 years ago in the same exact location? madness maybe? well this madness became a reality.

Further more, what's irrational is the number of lives that the United States government is prepared to "sacrifice" for "steady" access to oil.

Finally, Al-Qaeda did declare war on the United States alone, not on the entire west. Al-Qaeda hijackers planned for their attacks from Germany, a western country.

Of all Western nations combined, only the United States government engaged in numerous bloody wars since WWII that resulted in many unecessary deaths (2 million people in Vietnam).

Stop this war machine

Stop this killings

Oil is not worth the lives of innocent people

Enough is enough

Karim-

Please read history - you are way off base on just about eberything you write.
This note: "Of all Western nations combined, only the United States government engaged in numerous bloody wars since WWII that resulted in many unecessary deaths (2 million people in Vietnam)."
Just rediculous. So the US is the only country that has gone to war since WWII?
Let's not let the fatcs get int he way of our argument.

THE ISRALIS ARE TERRORISTS. Using collective punishment, killing innocnets to make others behave is clear terrorism. Can anyone argue?
That our tax money goes to that savage nation in such horrendous amounts makes us terrorist supporters. But that will stop. This nation already hates Bush and they will hate those who drive him soon. It's all very frightening.

Also Friday, a U.N.-run observation post just inside Israel was struck during fighting between Israel and Hezbollah militants. The Israeli army blamed Hezbollah rockets but a U.N. officer said it was an artillery shell fired by the Israeli Defense Force.

A U.N. officer, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation, said an artillery shell fired by Israel made "a direct hit on the U.N. position overlooking Zarit." The post is part of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon.

Karim -

If you can support them, you're as bad as the terrorists. Having your demands met is not justification for killing thousands of people. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Oh yes - the big bad U.S. is the only violent nation in the world. No other groups of people are as bad as we are.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

GO ISRAEL!!!

Karim -

One of the reasons Germany and the rest of western Europe aren't under attack from the fanatic Islamists is because of the huge Muslim populations living in their midst. In the future, those countries will probably be majority Muslim anyway. Guess what many Europeans and many Muslims have in common?

And now for some ethnic cleansing....

TYRE, Lebanon, July 20 - The warning came in the morning Thursday, a recorded message dialed to phone numbers in southern Lebanon. In flawless Arabic, it instructed: Leave now, beyond the Litani River that bisects the rock-studded wadis of the south. Don't flee on motorcycles or in vans or trucks. Otherwise, you will be a target. The message signed off simply: the state of Israel.

But leaving this southern Lebanese city Thursday was more complicated than a choice. Aid officials say that tens of thousands have already fled Tyre and its environs along the Mediterranean Sea but that perhaps 12,000 Lebanese remain stranded. The wartime circumstances of a besieged city keep them here: no gasoline for their cars, no money for taxi fares that have surged 75-fold, no faith in assurances from Israeli forces that have repeatedly attacked civilian vehicles and, most desperately, no hope of finding safety.

No, Otis, it's not ridiculous to look at which side has been doing the most killing in order to understand where the greatest injustice lies.
Not to do so would be ridiculous.
Your problem, clearly, is that you think some lives -- Jewish lives -- are more valuable than others, while other lives -- Arab lives -- are expendable­.
This is the kind of thinking that has led Israel into the untenable position it is in now: hated by its neighbours, and despised by a growing proportion of humanity, destined to be at war forever.
All lives are equally valuable. It's time you and the rest of the Israel-right-or-wrong crowd woke up to that fact, and acted accordingly.
The barbarian behavior you are trying to defend is indefensible.
To the extent that America continues its unquestioning support for the killers running Israel, we will only isolate ourselves even further, and create more enemies, around the world.
Time to wake up and see what everyone else can see so clearly -- that Israel, with its barbaric, disproportionate response, is the main aggressor here.

Eight Major 'Acts Of God' That Coincided With The Timing of U.S. Pressure On Israel To Give Up Land

October 30, 1991:

President George Bush opens the Madrid Conference with an initiative for a Middle East peace plan involving Israel's land. On the same day, an extremely rare storm forms off the coast of Nova Scotia. (It was eventually tagged "The Perfect Storm," and a book and movie were made about it.) Record-setting 100-foot waves form at sea and pound the New England Coast, even causing heavy damage to President Bush's home in Kennebunkport, Maine.

August 23, 1992:

The Madrid Conference moves to Washington D.C. and the peace talks resume, lasting four days. On that same day, Hurricane Andrew-the worst natural disaster ever to hit America-produces an estimated $30 billion in damage and leaves 180,000 homeless in Florida.

January 16, 1994:

President Clinton meets with Syria's President Hafez el-Assad in Geneva. They talk about a peace agreement with Israel that includes giving up the Golan Heights. Less than 24 hours later, a powerful 6.9 earthquake rocks Southern California. This quake, centered in Northridge, is the second most destructive natural disaster to hit the United States, behind Hurricane Andrew.

March 1 to April 1997:

The combination of Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat touring America; Clinton rebuking Israel for not giving away her land for peace; and pro-abortion activity coincide with some of the worst tornadoes and flooding in U.S. history. On the very day Arafat lands in America, powerful tornadoes devastate huge sections of the nation, ripping across Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi, Kentucky and Tennessee. Arafat's American tour also coincides with the storms in the Dakotas, which result in the worst flooding of this century, in addition to weeks of major storms throughout the Midwest. Arafat finishes his tour and leaves the U.S. and the storms stop.

January 21, 1998:

Netanyahu meets with President Clinton at the White House and is coldly received. Clinton and Secretary of State Madeleine Albright refuse to have lunch with him. Shortly afterwards that day, the Monica Lewinsky scandal breaks into the mass media and begins to occupy a major portion of Clinton's time.

September 27-28, 1998:

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright works on the final details of an agreement in which Israel will give up 13 percent of the West Bank. The same day Hurricane Georges slams into the Gulf Coast with 110 m.p.h winds and gusts up to 175. The hurricane hits the coast and stalls. On September 28, Clinton meets with Arafat and Netanyahu at the White House to finalize the land deal. Later, Arafat addresses the United Nations about declaring an independent Palestinian state by May 1999, while Hurricane Georges pounds the Gulf Coast causing $1 billion in damage. At the exact time Arafat departs the U.S. the storm begins to dissipate.

October 15-22, 1998:

On October 15, 1998, Yasser Arafat and Benjamin Netanyahu meet at the Wye River Plantation in Maryland, to continue the talks, which ended on September 28. The talks are scheduled to last five days with the focus on Israel giving up 13 percent of the West Bank. The talks are extended and conclude on October 23. On October 17, awesome rains and tornadoes hit southern Texas. The San Antonio area is deluged with 20 inches of rain in one day. The rains and floods in Texas continue until October 22 and then subside. The floods ravage 25 percent of Texas and leave over one billion dollars in damage. On October 21, Clinton declares this section of Texas a major disaster area.

May 3, 1999:

This is the same day in Israel that Yasser Arafat is scheduled to declare a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as the capital. The declaration is postponed to December 1999 at the request of President Clinton, whose letter to Arafat encourages him for his "aspirations for his own land." He also writes that the Palestinians have a right to "determine their own future on their own land, " and that they deserve to "live free, today, tomorrow and forever." That same day, starting at 4:47 p.m. CDT, the most powerful tornado storm system ever to hit the United States sweeps across Oklahoma and Kansas. The winds are clocked at 316 m.p.h. the fastest wind speed ever recorded.

These are a few examples of the many "Act of God" events that coincide with the timing of the country's pressure on Israel to give up her land for peace. The land that God gave to Israel as the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is documented by covenant in The Holy Bible.

Haggai 2:21-22
I will shake heaven and earth.
22 I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms;
I will destroy the strength of the Gentile kingdoms.
I will overthrow the chariots And those who ride in them;
The horses and their riders shall come down, Every one by the sword of his brother.

NKJV

Can you enlighten us as to what happened on the hundreds of days when there were storms, earthqukes, hurricanes, floods etc etc....that you don't mention here..

It is time to think the unthinkable.Before the radical islamic world gets parity in nuclear technology with the west,I recommmend that Israel and the US deliver a first strike nuclear attack on Syria and Iran.After that let sectarian violence finish the job.

"Just rediculous. So the US is the only country that has gone to war since WWII?"

Please read my message again.

I wrote that the United States government is the only one among WESTER NATIONS that has engaged in so many wars after WWII. Every other western nation just stopped killing people.

Please tell me which other western nation that has killed over 2 million people in some foreign country that never threatened its shores?

Why do you guys make apologies for your murderous government?

The United States government is a violent government that has no regard for foreign human life. Whether this represents the people of America or not is a different issue.

Israel is pretty the same just replace foreign with Arab.

GO ISRAEL!!!

Karim -

I hope you're not living in the U.S. as you make your negative comments about this country. If so, I suggest that you leave immediately for the wonderful Middle East where you can certainly see how many of your current rights are taken away from you.

Hey folks,
Forget about all this wothless zionsit propaganda in the jewish-zionist controlled US media. See the truth and judge for yourself- take a look at:

http://jewwatch.com/

Note: make good use of your tax dollar and support the good work of Mr. Weltner at:

http://jewwatch.com/

As it is impossible to distinguish a Hezbolla from an ordinary civilian I fear that it is impossible for Israel to do any real damage with the military assault.

The Hezbollah will blend in with the civilian population until Isreal backs off, and then will rearm and resume their campaign against Israel.

The change must come from within Lebanon. Israel cannot force it to occur.

What other country would we make excuses for the way we make excuses for Israel and its barbarous murder of hundreds of innocent men, women, children and senior citizens?
The U.S. media is so obviously biased on this story.
Just look at Howard Kurtz's excuses for Israel in his media column today.
Yet another voice to add to the propaganda din from the Israel-right-or-wrong crowd.

Printer -
Why don't you get off the JewWatch thing? It's a ridiculous hate site run by a lunatic who thinks he has some education. I don't care how many hits he's gotten - - - it's a ridiculous site, and the people who sent money to that madman are lunatics themselves.

Israel feels it can whatever it wants,whenever it wants because it's protector America is behind it,why do you think the whole world hates America????This is disgusting,Israelis are proving to be worse than the Nazis they claim tried to wipe them out.

To Israel is the problem!!!
Despite what you think, Israel doesn't really need the U.S. to be its protector. And if the whole world hates America so much, why do we have a problem with the swarms of immigrants coming to live here? Why do world leaders often come here for medical treatment? Why are our borders a problem for the illegal immigrants (not just Mexicans, of course) who come here? How about all the foreign students who come here for their educations? Any answers?

"I hope you're not living in the U.S. as you make your negative comments about this country."

I thought free countries allowed dissenting opinions and criticism. Perhaps you should be the one to "move back to your own country" since you obviously do not like the idea of people exercising their right to free speech and criticizing government policies that they consider atrocious.

Here is an idea; instead of trying to stifle criticism of U.S policy, how about you come up with logical arguments to defend it.

Oh and I do live in the U.S and I absolutely loathe U.S foreign policy especially as it pertains to Arabs and Muslims. It is discriminatory, racist and borders on the moronic. And I am NOT going anywhere.

Zain:
There's nothing wrong with having an opinion and exercising your right to free speech. But one of the problems this country faces now is a lack of cohesiveness among the various groups of people that now make up the U.S. population. One does not necessarily need to agree with one's government policies. But how about a little patriotism? We live in a wonderful country that has many positive attributes and many things that the rest of the world emulates. We're not perfect, but neither is any other country. Does all of the blame on the U.S. foreign policy towards Arabs and Muslims rest solely on the U.S.? Last time I checked the Arab and Muslim countries were struggling with the human rights of their own citizens. Their governments aren't exactly models for the way countries should be governed. When there's a true democracy in those countries, maybe it will be easier for the U.S. to have better foreign policy with them.

Where are those Arab Muslims around Lebanon now? NOWHERE. They can be found nowhere. I think it is more appropiate to call them just Spectators. They are neither Arabs not Muslims, they are sadistic spectators. They just watch the plights of their fellow Arabs/Muslims. They have no emotion, moral boligation, sense of belongingness. They are lilke stones. They are living in stone age.

Reading over these posts, it's appalling to see how many of you are Jew-hating racists who unconditionally support the Arab and Muslim causes. Where are the moderates? Where are those of you who might be Arab or Muslim who actually have the intelligence, courage and insight to criticize what your terrorist Muslim fundamentalist brethren do around the world? I offer that challenge to those of you who can rise to it. Let me hear from those of you who can actually denounce terrorism by Muslim fundamentalists around the world (Spain, India, wherever) without pointing to Israel as the cause of all evil in the world.

It's going to be a deafening silence, I'm sure.

Reading over these posts, it's appalling to see how many of you are Jew-hating racists who unconditionally support the Arab and Muslim causes. Where are the moderates? Where are those of you who might be Arab or Muslim who actually have the intelligence, courage and insight to criticize what your terrorist Muslim fundamentalist brethren do around the world? I offer that challenge to those of you who can rise to it. Let me hear from those of you who can actually denounce terrorism by Muslim fundamentalists around the world (Spain, India, wherever) without pointing to Israel as the cause of all evil in the world.

It's going to be a deafening silence, I'm sure.

Reading over these posts, it's appalling to see how many of you are Jew-hating racists who unconditionally support the Arab and Muslim causes. Where are the moderates? Where are those of you who might be Arab or Muslim who actually have the intelligence, courage and insight to criticize what your terrorist Muslim fundamentalist brethren do around the world? I offer that challenge to those of you who can rise to it. Let me hear from those of you who can actually denounce terrorism by Muslim fundamentalists around the world (Spain, India, wherever) without pointing to Israel as the cause of all evil in the world.

It's going to be a deafening silence, I'm sure.

"Nor do I struggle with matters to great..."
I thank God that He has not chosen me to be a head statesman of a country; the responsibility is much too great. It is enough that I am required to love my enemies, that if smitten I should turn the other cheek. I don't need to be responsible for the safety and lives of my own countrymen let alone the children and civilians of my enemies. Knowing this I can understand the call to pray for those in positions of leadership; if I were a leader I would beg for the prayers of my people. This is a desperate time, a time when all leaders need our prayers, including the leaders of those we see as our enemies. Perhaps God will soften the hearts of Hezbollah and Israel alike and perhaps children and civilians not yet killed in this conflict will be spared.

Israel will be defeated and pay for her aggresion!
Allahu Akbar!

Jews=Juice!

Wow, Jason Duan, are you creative!!! Did you think of that all by yourself? You must be a genius? Anymore inane comments?

all this war is meaningless, even if hizbollah is "defeated", what will israel do with the 1million chiite in lebanon, i know these people, they have nothing to loose,they have lost a lot...they dont care about dying any more.and this time all the lebanese people salutes them and stands next to them...israel might do a lot of destruction but at the end she will lose...

Israel can not beat Hezbollah. In the time of Ariel Sharon Hezbollahs (and Hamas) weapons were much more primitive. Also they didn't have the support from other Arab nations (even Jordan is getting fed-up with Israel). In fact Hezbollah and Hamas really are no longer in charge of fighting Israel. The Arab world, as ONE very angry unit, and certainly led by Iran and Syria, are in charge. Hezbollah and Hamas are just names. But certainly also the weapons that the Arab world has combined with Israel being such a tiny country (the size of New Jersey) will make it vertially impossible for Israel to survive. Only military help from the USA to Israel may help somewhat but the hatred in the Arab world is just too much. What is happening in Iraq is a good example - with all the soldiers and sophisticated weapons the USA can barely stay afloat there and infact are pulling back out of the country into Baghdad. The same is bound to happen in Israel - it is finished. Nothing to do with "good or bad". Just plain reality.

Hezbollah has Christians as well as Muslims, and its aim it to restore Lebanese sovereignty. It was born of Israeli occupation, and is now the only protection the Lebanese people have against Israeli terrorism. Israel will never defeat Hezbollah, which they should have learned after the first 18 years of trying!

Anonymous poster:
Hezbollah's aim is (was?) NOT to restore Lebanese sovereignty. They are, for the most part, fundamental Islamists who are looking to create a fundamentalist Islamic country in Lebanon. Just what the world needs...

I am very sad about the situation in general. It is not only a war between Israel and Hezbollah. It is a complex situation where many countries are involved and needs to be anylised in its context.A lot of governments, religious groups and individuals take advantage of the situation all over the world to suit their own interests but really the majority don't really care about jews or muslems but themselves.Newspapers want to sell, polititians want more votes and they try to avoid terrorist attacks in their own countries what may change their point of view from what they really think.

political parties and religious groups are taking advantage of the situation to criticise Israel and blame jews for everything, however, don't think my friends that this difamation campain will attract people all over the world to like muslems. In fact, after this war, when normal citizens will decide in which suburb to live, in democratic countries, they will avoid arab ones. We all loose in this conflict, so please lets behave.

I have to say i support israel. If the terrorists, not only in Lebanon, but the terrorists all over the world, would not hide behind womans skirts and young children, maybe there would be less civilian casualites of woman and children. As far as the men go, if they would stand up to these terrorist, and run them from there home,there cities or countries, then maybe we would have less terrorists all over the world.
Understanding and acceptance of different religions and cultures should be the key, not trying to take what is not yours. Many people around the world, earn there money. terrorists do not earn there money, they take from the weak and scared. It is time for all the world to fight back against the bullies of the world, take back what is yours. Peace and Harmony for all!!!!!!

I think there are modern thinking Muslim nations out there...Malaysia, Indonesia, the United Arab Emirates, etc, Lebanon was one...now it's been pushed back 30 yrs. The problem with terrorism is not Islam, it's political.

Organized terrorist groups must be getting paid by someone...they obviously are not doing day jobs to survive.

If America and Israel really want to stop terrorism, why not use intelligence to get to the source rather than this aimless destruction. We've got the CIA, FBI, with some of the dangest smartest people on the planet...let them do their job.

You have to wonder what the goal is here...land? We keep taking over more and more of it...hmm. The goal obviously can't be peace since we all know terrorists get even more supporters with what we are doing.

Otis and Angus,
little bit of help. maybe u both need to look up War, and what happens during wars, u need to go back through all the history of wars, here is a web site, it might help ya. http://www.historyguy.com/War_list.html#warlist13a,

To the person or persons that said "America hates Bush".U cannot speak for all, just yourself, i do not hate the man, i hate the actions he is taking. So, if u were in his position how would u handle the world? HUH????? This man has alot on his table right now, and i sure it would be difficult for anyone to handle the way the world wants it handled. Is there even a right way? Do we even know the answer to this question? I dont try to know whats going on, i only know from the news and the views of other people,
So unless im there, i cannot say. But we are free to have opinions.

Joel 3:1-4
1"For behold, in those days and at that time,When I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem,

2 I will also gather all nations,And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;And I will enter into judgment with them there On account of My people, My heritage Israel,Whom they have scattered among the nations;They have also divided up My land.

3 They have cast lots for My people,Have given a boy as payment for a harlot,And sold a girl for wine, that they may drink.

4 "Indeed, what have you to do with Me,O Tyre and Sidon, and all the coasts of Philistia? Will you retaliate against Me?But if you retaliate against Me,Swiftly and speedily I will return your retaliation upon your own head;

Genesis 12:1-3
2 I will bless you and make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.

3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."

Israel has been out of God's will for almost two thousand years, and has been struggling in its own strength. God is in the process of bringing back His people to a right relationship with Him. They will be victorious over their enemies for His Namesake, whether the world likes it or not. Nations that side against Israel will be fighting against Almighty God, and will be cursed.

Now is the time to repent and fear God.

I cannot believe some of the comments I've read at this site.

Let's try and go back in time after WWII ended.
The Holocaust: Six million Jews were killed.

This is what people think of/remember most when the Holocaust is mentioned and so much sympathy is given to those who are Jewish. I feel for those who died at the hands of Hilter but people need to remember their history. Let's look at some numbers shall we.

Lives Lost During the Holocaust

Ukrainians 5.5-7 million
Jews(of all countries 6+ million
Russian POW's 3.3+ million
Russion civilians 2+ million
Polish 3+ million
Yugoslavians 1.5+ million
Gypsies 200-500,000
Mentally/Physically
Disabled 70-250,000
Homosexuals Tens of Thousands
Spanish Republicans Tens of Thousands
Jehovah's Witnesses 2,500-5,000

The six million Jewish figure was for total lives lost at the hand of Nazi's and other groups. The above people were among those killed in concentration camps along side Jews but seem to never be mentioned when the Holocaust is remembered. The Jews were by no means the only ones persecuted and forced to die a horrible death. LOOK AT THE NUMBERS ABOVE AND GIVE THOSE PEOPLE YOUR SYMPATHY AS WELL.

There were many refugees fleeing Europe not just Jews. The U.S. closed it's borders and did not allow refugees to enter the U.S. during WWII. Because of guilt from the U.S. and other countries it brought about the Jews having there own state; Israel. But who's land was it? On a world map Palestine used to be seen. Look on a current world map and tell me where Palestine exists. They have been removed forever.

Did you know that the Jews, in order to become a majority to make there state, gained control of the borders and flooded Palestine with more Jewish refugees so they could become a majority? Did you know that they obtained lands from Palestinians illegally, running them off and killing them in the process. There were about 800,000 Palestinians starting out and by the time the Jews were done there were around 100,000. They were either killed or existing in refugee camps. Now someone tell me the difference of what Hilter had done and what the Jews turned around and did to the Palestinians.

Americans need to understand that the hatred from the Arab nations come from the U.S. ties it has with Israel. From the U.S. backing the creation of Israel, money that flows to Israel for their military by U.S., to the turning of the head by the U.S. when it comes to Israel.

It's simple. The Palestinians don't recognize Israel as a state but merely occupied territory on Palestinian land. They want their rightful land back! If the Jews were to be given a state out of guilt why not let them have it back in Europe from where most of them came.

Governments always have an agenda, make no mistake. Within them is power, control, and greed. We only hear through the media what the govt. wants you to hear. Has anyone on this site ever seen first hand or spoken with a Palestinian directly to hear their plight. Live their life for awhile and then tell me what you have learned. I would be very interested to know what you find.

Did you know that Hezbollah is giving money to the Lebanese people to help with rent for a year and pay for the rebuilding of their homes that have recently been destroyed. Money that some say is being backed by Iran. Perhaps it's true. However, this only binds a stronger tie between Hezbollah and the people in Lebanon. Not with any of them looking kinder to the U.S. who is behind supplying Israel its weapons.

Just some things to think about.

No israel cannot defeat Hezbollah ever, Israel should accept its defeat now , and Israel should be held guilty of war crimes for killing innocent civilians in Lebanon.

A WORD OF ADVICE

A WORD OF ADVICE

A fact: Israelis are cowards...
They spent the war dropping bombs from the sky on everything in Lebanon, civilians, infrastructure and maybe some Hizbollah fighters.
Their strategy sucked...
They were afraid of confronting the wild guerillas on the battle fields.
This is why they lost a big public opinion and this war.

alo