On August 15 President Bush said
"Hezbollah attacked Israel without any knowledge of the (Lebanese) government. Hezbollah attacked Israel. Hezbollah started the crisis, and Hezbollah suffered a defeat in this crisis,".

Israelis need to understand that the war with Lebanon was a great victory. Mission Accomplished.

Its too bad Prime Minister Olmert was
not able to capitalize on that. A flight aboard an F-16 and landing at some Army Base would have done wonders for the image. Of course the location would have to be remote from the nuisance of Hezbollah rockets. Where is Karl Rove and a good capable speechwriter when you need him most!!!

Oscar,
You know, it's really hard to tell if you are being sarcastic.

It's funny (as in funny strange) that there is more "debate" about Israeli policy in Israel than there is in the official corporate/state-sanctioned U.S. media and Congress...

PfP

Olmert and his government are in deep trouble from the right and left. Like President Bush, he will emphasize a "stay the course" message in the war against Hizbullah combined with the blockade of Lebanon, and attempting to force the Lebanese government to seal their border with Syria. This is very similar to Bush pushing for sanctions against Iran. It is another case of Neoconservative spin passing as policy.
Olmert will probably copy the Bush Administration by using the term Islamic Facist very soon. This term was rather ironic coming from Neoconservative Corporate Facist Bush Administration.

PfP,
How is that funny, in either sense of the word? In most free societies, those who are affected most by particular policies (in this case, the fallout from the war with Lebanon) would be the ones debating them most fiercely. Why should it be a *more* serious matter for the U.S. Government than for the Israelis who live right "next door"?

Some AP writer gets it...

'WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush in recent days has recast the global war on terror into a "war against Islamic fascism." Fascism, in fact, seems to be the new buzz word for Republicans in an election season dominated by an unpopular war in Iraq.'

Of course, fascism has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam. It occurs when the interests of the state and corporations coincide, according to Mussolini, who should know, and should rightly be called 'corporatism'. Yes, like the Bush Admistration. But like Humpty Dumpty, bush think words mean what he says they mean.

Anybody know whether Cilizza'a The Fix is down for good? All comment sections have been closed. It's weird.

Never have I read such inaccuracies disguises as analysis as those presented by Stephen Plaut. For example, he talks about the massacres at Sabra and Shatilla, and decries the blame ascribed to the Israelis without ever mentioning the role played by Ariel Sharon. The massacres, according to the Begin government's own Kahan commission [see Jews for Peace website] said were the personal responsibility of Sharon.

Why would the Washington Post give such a writer space to rant?

Mr. Casey, you nailed it. The real war in this country is against 50+ years of Zionist "spin." (read lies) If Americans (as a whole) knew anything about the history of The Enterprise (Israel) and the nature of our media (as a whole), it would be a whole new ball-game.

I'm neither pro-Israel nor anti-Israel. I see some valids points on both sides. Can anyone tell me what magic Israel has over Washington that makes the US back Israel no matter what?

In reading your article it seems there is no mention of the thousands Lebanese killed by Israelis. It's very one sided in scope. Until there is balance in our policy towards the Middle East there will be no peace.

Wolcott ....Money, control of the media, and lobbyist.

dm:
I saw plenty of things in the media that made Israel look very bad during the 33 day war. I wonder what makes Americans blind to this.

As to "Money" and "lobbyist", I guess you're saying that our government officials are getting paid off to support Israel. Are they all really that dishonest? I know some are, but support for Israel seems rather universal in Congress.

The Israeli Media from I have read has communicated quite clearly to the Israelis that Israel did not meet any of its war objectives.

Condemnation has been strong from both the right that advocates a strong preemptive military solution including bombing and destruction of civilian infrastructure and the more liberal camp that wants a negotiated peace, whether achievable or not.

One can disagree with the Israeli approaches, but there has been a remarkably healthy debate as should happen in any society that places value on free speech and national interests above tawdry slogans.

By contrast, the Republican defense of its policy in the Middle East is more an attempt to silence its critic by shrill, often strident invective that slanders the character and impugns the patriotism of any who hold an opposite view. Politicians who put forth straw-man arguments that misrepresent the opposing position and then strike it down do not serve this country well. McCarthyism should have died a long time back.

Too many decent politicians who served this country with honor have been swift-boated by men who had the opportunity to serve but did not. Too many military men and civil servants who saw their highest purpose as protecting the constitution and this country have been removed or pushed aside by men who saw their primary purpose as protecting the presidency and the party.

This country needs a real debate on the direction in the Middle East. It does not need the chief executive and Cabinet members warning the country that Western civilization will end if we alter course in the Middle East. Resurrecting the largely discredited Domino Theory forty years later to support a foreign policy marked with serious failures is itself an acknowledgement of failure in ideas or at the very least in execution.

Mainstream media in the United States is finally recognizing that and the real debate is only now beginning to take shape. In Israel the response was much swifter but that is because any serious error in policy or its implementation has much more serious and immediate consequences.

Anyone interested in "what magic Israel has over Washington" should read the article by Michael Massing, "The Storm over the Israel Lobby", in the June 8, 2006 issue of the New York Review of Books, available online at www.nybooks.com (click on "Archives").

Anyone for pure speculation???

Will this bring down Olmert and his (or Arik's) middle way? Resurgance for Likud? Certainly has put the kabosh on the withdrawl from the West Bank plan.

Lots of folks seem to think Hezb "won" this. Anyone see what they have lost?

Lastly, lets start "how long until Nasrullah (opps, he is the joker/jester guy from Turkish history) gets popped by the Mossad" game. I'll take October 23rd.

The arabs hate Israel because they see it as a foreign entity that does not belong in the midst of the arab world. Why then do millions of Israel-hating arabs immigrate to Europe and the United States? This is not their homeland. How can they be so hypocritical?

Wolcott...a careful deliberate multi year or more program/plan to get Israel first American Jews...read neocons...in the right places in the press, Defense, State,
and White House campaings...to begin with.
There's more. Like, where did Wolfowitz, Perle, Israel (Scotter) Libby, Feith, etc etc etc, the Wurmsers, work? Plan came out of Chicago, look up the name Wolhstetter. And read the last link in the article on which we comment, above. The long, long plan. Didn't work in Germany, at all, did it...is working like a charm here.

iNFORM ME...how can ANYONE read "Round of Recriminations" above-- and not be ashamed and disgusted, or worse, with US support Israel? Just read it! Problem is the NYTimes and rest of the US newspapers, Jewish owned and operated, have carefully hidden how truly foul and dysfunctional that society is. Why in the name of God, would we support that? Even if we did in the beginning? I think we won't long...too much exposure lately.

If Iran wants nukes so badly I say we help them out and send some their way.

All you Iranian-"Americans" trolling these message boards are a disgrace. You are in no way Americans. Your Iranian society is a sick disgrace.

Good article

First off, by criticizing Israeli policies, the Israeli media and commentators have proven themselves to be anti-Semetic and the friends of terror fascists. *sarcasm dripping*

Secondly, President Bush declared that Israel won the war so they should be celebating.

Thirdly, I don't know why they are complaining anyway. After all, they got to use all those American-made bombs, planes, and bulldozers that they bought will the economic aid given to them by us the taxpayers. It isn't like it was their money that was used to attack Lebanon, kill people, and destroy their infrastructure and economy under the guise of self-defense.

Did anyone hear about the " Arabic T-shirt sparks airport row" incident? How extremely funny. How can we be so scared of written words? Are we all losing our minds alongside our claim of civilization, freedom and democracy? Arabs across Middle East are looking at these kind of craziness and wonder what freedoms are these Westerners talking about? Are we being bombed so someday we will be hateful like these people? I am embarrassed. Symptoms of fascism is all around us and we are too busy waving our flags of stupidity. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5297822.stm

"(opps, he is the joker/jester guy from Turkish history)"

--- nope. you are confusing the names Nasrullah and Nasruddin

Dave

You wrote
"If Americans (as a whole) knew anything about the history of The Enterprise (Israel) and the nature of our media (as a whole), it would be a whole new ball-game."

Be assured, some day Americans will!

TO "DESTROY" ABOVE: It isn't the Iranians 'trolling' on this board pretending to be Americans. It's the Israelis and Americans pretending to be neutral or whatever. Everyone knows that. We're not stupid. But most of us are not so ashamed of what we are that we need to pretend to be something else. I finally understand, oh so clearly, why the world is awash in anti-semetism.

While I've never been strongly for or against Israel and have tried to see both sides of the argument, I've never felt negative about Israel until this latest war, where the destruction to civilians have swayed me. I suspect that I'm not alone. I also suspect that this was just the beginning.

I have been reading Jefferson Morley for about 2 years now. He is not an anti-semite. He does a great job of presenting world opinion and gives links from both sides of the middle east.

I can only hope and pray that Hillary gets the same treatment that Joe Lieberman got. They are both awash in Aipac money and influence and would both love to take us to WWIII while trying to look as though they really have no choice. If only Jonathan Tasini could get more press coverage. If he was ever able to debate Hillary about the war and the Israel situation, she would crumble like a house of cards.

The Republicans are a lost cause. It shames me to see them trying to foist this "Islamo Facsist" B.S. on the American public as though riots in France, genocide in Darfur, and beheadings in Iraq are in any way connected. It is even more ridiculus to suggest that they pose any type of a threat to US security. And without a doubt the most offensive aspect is that this is being tied to some sort of right wing radical christian idea about the end times (I see these references all teh time on Fox News, even though I watch rather infrequently).

I believe that the administration knew full well that Iraq would eventually break into three parts before they ever went in. This would make it harder for any other other competeing power to take the whole thing. We are guaranteed some oil flow from the northern oil feilds that the Kurds will control. It also creates the fear of chaos that might help justify war against Iran and other ME countries. I also believe that this whole affair in Lebanon was greenlit by this administration (and just aout every congressman and house memeber) in a desperate attempt to create further pretext for this ridiculous WWIII context.
thankfully, It literally blew up in their and AIPACS faces.

As such, we need to rout this whole administration from office. We need to clean out congress and the house as well.

Above all, we need to change this dysfunctional relationship with Israel.
We need to force them to raze the settlements and quit the occupation. We need to force them to give up the other occupied territories.

Maybe then, after israel stops inspiring the majority of ME terrorism, we could get back to the business of making this country viable and vibrant again by focusing on our education, better health coverage, new sciences and industries and actually seeing a piece of the globl market that we have given up most of our manufacturing and technical jobs to take advantage of. As it stands now, did anyone know that Germany exports more total goods and services than the entire US economy does? Germany is slightly smaller than the state of wisconsin and has aboutone fifth of our population. It is also the case that by staying OUT of WWI and II for as long as we did, we were able to triple the size of our economy while England and other european countries were decimated in economic power. What do you think an endless WWIII (fought only by us) will do to the US economy?

J

Perhaps it is Israel's foul mood that has led to this situation. The story was buried in the back pages, this was one third of the way through the article, the title of which did not mention it. Seems to me this is front page news:

"The secretary general drew on reports compiled by U.N. monitors that cite Israel for roughly 64 violations, which include overflights, resupplying forces and attacks on Hezbollah positions. Hezbollah has broken the truce four times, according to the reports. Nonetheless, Annan said, his meetings with Israeli and Lebanese officials indicated that both sides appeared committed to maintaining the truce."

Err I was having a bit of fun on the Nasrullah/Nasruddin thing. But thanks Rowan.

"On 17 June 2005, under a new law rushed through the Knesset, ( passed 53/25 with 1 abstention) Palestinians alone will be excluded from obtaining Israeli citizenship or residency. Anyone else who marries an Israeli will be entitled to Israeli citizenship. As a result, Israeli Arabs who marry Palestinians from the West Bank or Gaza will either have to move to the Occupied Territories or live apart. Their children from the age of 12 will be denied both citizenship and residency and be forced to move out of Israel. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch sent a letter to the Knesset saying: "banning family reunification is profoundly discriminatory... violates international human rights law and treaties which Israel has ratified and pledged to uphold." (www.canadiandimention.mb.ca )

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MIL20050717&articleId=699

The U.S is blindly supporting this why?

Israel = South Africa, but with a lot more nuclear weapons.

Apartheid in S.A. was ended, and there was little or no blood shed or reprisals.

Before it ended, there was armed resitance (i.e. terrorism). Mandella was put in jail for armed resitance. It is a natural response to tyranny. He is now considered a great man world wide, even in Israel and the US.

But do you now who backed the white apartheid government till the almost bloody end? Israel and the US.

It is not surprising that we continue to make the same mistake with Israel. The greed and cowardice that allowed politicians here to turn a blind eye to apartheid is the exact type of greed and cowardice that allows them to turn a blind eye to the settlements and occupation.
Amazingly, It also allows them to turn a blind eye to the crushing costs in lives and money that terror inspired by Israeli policies is now bringing to the US, Israel and Lebanon.

Only when political reprisals for supporting Isreal's dysfunctional behavior frighten them more than losing AIPAC funding and support or the support of the so called christian right, will we see a substantial turn around. That is what it took to bring change to South Africa.

Until then, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Joe Lieberman, George Bush and Dick Cheney
and Paul Wolfowitz are all really just about exactly the same when it comes to wars in the middle east, their party affiliations not withstanding.

J

Am somewhere in Asia right now and am listening very carefully to what various countries are saying about Israel and Middle East. As follows: (1)Israel is getting smaller and smaller in spirit and strength; (2)Hezbollah, Hamis, Syria, Iran, and Angry Palestinians are getting nastier and stronger in fighting;(3)If USA can't make it in Iraq neither can Israel; (4)USA is getting bored with Middle East and is more fascinated with Asia (Relationships among India, China, N.Korea, Russia, Australia - impact on USA). As I understand it the point of view here in Asia is that this is a last "Hurrah" of Israel. They are on their way out.

Anagadir,

Israel is not on the way out. It is hopefully on the way in. That is to say,
If the US gets it's act together, Israel will finally be forced "into" the family of normal nations and removed from it's status as international pariah.

The US will eventually force Israel to abandon the settlements and other occupied lands. It will force Israel to return prisoners and allow the Palestinians to form a viable nation. These things are both morally correct and definitly in the interest of US security and world standing.
It's just a matter of time, and as you suggest, the american voters are getting very weary of paying the price that is associated with supporting these immoral policies.

But lets be very clear; Israel will always be protected by the US and the US will never allow Israel to be actually attacked. My feeling is that when Israel treats it neigbors with respect, they will start to treat Israel similarly.

J

Anagadir,

Here is proof that Israel is in for real change (hopefully positive). It's own people do not trust Israeli leaders accounts of actions related to the war (or presumably almost anything else)

Although I think it speaks for itself, I will add one question that is not overtly stated in this article: If the Israeli People do not trust their leadership regarding issues of Israel's military actions, why should we trust our leaderships support of those actions or the government that perpetrates them.

I.E. When Hillary Clinton Stands next to the Israeli ambassodor to the US and agrees with his cheerleading of the bombing of lebanese infrastructure and civilians, Keep in mind that the Israeli people trust Nasrallah to be more truthfull than Mr. Gillerman (who is just spouting the same official BS that is referenced in this article).

What does this say about Hillary and the rest of our leadership who claim that backing Israels Wars and occupations is actually helping Israel when no one in Israel actually trusts the people who perpetrate these actions?

Here is the Article;

Poll: Israelis believed Nasrallah over Peretz

Polls conducted by Dr. Udi Lebel, political psychology lecturer, found sad picture of Israeli PR

Anat Breshkovsky Published: 09.03.06, 16:38

Since the end of the war in the north, two main issues have been keeping the public busy: The demand for an account of the failures by the Israeli leadership, and criticism of the press and nature of reports.

A new study, however, buy Dr. Uri Lebel of the Ben Gurion Institute, Beer Sheva University, has found that another problem requires urgent treatment: Israeli PR.

During the poll, entitled "the management of Israeli PR during the second Lebanon war," members of six groups were asked to watch video recordings of Israeli PR in Israel and abroad, and to answer questions. Lebel says he held polls in the past on issues of strategic press, political psychology, and army-media relations. The result of his latest poll show that Israeli PR was so lacking, that in my cases the public was forced to rely on the reports of Hizbullah leader Hassan Nasrallah.

Lebel says a good media leader relies on three points - gripping the audience, being watchable, and giving the feeling of certainty.

The participants of the poll were asked who gave the a sense of certainty regarding the continuance of the war, and who was most authentic. The results were unequivocal: The Israeli public chose Nasrallah's speeches as giving it both.

'Nasrallah contradicted the Israeli spokespeople'

Asked about Nasrallah's authenticity compared to that of Israeli spokespeople, not one Hebrew spokesperson received high authenticity marks.

"We reached a really crazy situation," says Lebel. "A psychological situation which seems inconceivable: Instead of the Israeli public
watching our national spokesman who tells it what is happening every day, who will minimize the chaos and who will be seen as believable, something unprecedented happened: The public perceived the enemy leader against whom we fought as having those characteristics, and waited impatiently for his speeches. Nasrallah contradicted the Israeli spokespeople more than once, many times contradicting the minister of defense - he was the first to announce the deaths of Israeli soldiers and the sad circumstances which led to them."

He added: "This isn't the first time that a bereaved mother found out the truth of the death of her son in recordings released by Hizbullah, where a totally different picture is shown to what the IDF and its spokespeople have provided."

Dr. Lebel believes that the figures indicate a serious crisis of leadership down the road. "It's not important if objectively the leadership did its best - now the public perceives it as cut off, unprofessional, and boastful. It won't follow the leadership to the next confrontation," he said.

J. Your two last messages are OK but use your own judgement rather than lengthy quotes from other "wise" men. Indeed I agree that Israel somehow can or will stay provided however that it readjusts with realities of surrounding countries (Syria, Iran, West Bank, Gaza - all of whom are quietly supported by all other Arab nations as far East as Morocco and as far West as Malasia and Indonesia). Indeed Israel can stay if it readjusts itself as the "White" folks did in South-Africa or Zimbabwe. Also it will have to find new leaders that are a good blend of Jewish and Arabs (both Moslem and Christian) backgrounds, born and raised there for at least 3 or 4 generations rather than European WW2 survivors (or their children). The Bilblical story of Moses and his Jewish followers from Egypt roaming around the Negev desert for 40 years before entering the "promised land" is a perfect symbolic example of this. Furthermore, when fully integrated with other Middle Eastern countries Israel should learn to stand on its own feet rather than holding out both hands for USA freebies. Also it should completely pull out of the West Bank rather than trying to isolate the Palestinians from Jordan, Egypt, and Syria - they should be free, not lock them up on artificial islands. Gaza will always be a problem - it is too small and too dependent to Israels goodness. Not healthy. All of this takes time and hard work from all angles. But if this doesn't work Israel as it is now will be tomorrows toast.

Anagadir,

Racial and/or religious purity is at odds with the democratic future of any country. This is as true for Israel as it is for any other arab or mulism dominated country in the world. We tarnish our credibility in the eyes of the world when we even appear to help Israel work towards that goal.

If the settlements can be ended and all efforts to expand Israel are curtailed, Israel will eventually lose it's fear of "others" and go about creating a real democracy and not just a "Jewish" democracy, because that is in it's best interests in the long run. Israel must remain a place open to Jews who want to live there in freedom and prosperity, but demographically, it seems impossible that over the course of the next 50 years that they will remain the majority there with out continuing to impose draconian laws and restrictions upon their own people and the populations around them.

But it will take a while. Although that does not mean that a great deal of progress cannot be made in the mean time regarding the Palestinians by freeing the occupied territories and ending the settler movement.

J

Thank you!
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