The atrocities committed by the racist and illegal zionist jewish regime in occupied Palestine shall unite all of humanity against this evil jewish empire to get rid of it once and for all and bring peace and harmony to the inhabitants of this planet.

The existence of this aparthied, racist and child killer regime simply cannot be reconciled with world peace and security. The savage, bloodthirsty Israelis cannot survie but on the blood of christian and moslem children of lebanon, Iraq, and Palestine. Its humanity's moral duty to stop these beasts NOW.

ISRAEL: "The death gift that keeps on giving"

I can see the comments now. They'll all be of the same theme,

"Isreal did it on purpose! because... because... ummm.... their EVIL!!!"

None to bright maybe (I'd use stronger language but the filter would probably stop me).

Apparently Bush and the Isrealis manage to do the worst possible thing every time.

[ISRAELIS vs ARABS
WHO ARE THE REAL TERRORISTS?
By: Hal Turner

North Bergen, NJ USA -- For years, we in America have supported Israel both financially and militarily because we perceived they were the innocent victims of hostile and violent neighbors. The US media has, for years, provided extensive coverage of every incident involving Arab-against-Israeli violence. From shootings, to car bombs to suicide bombers, we in America have seen it all. Or have we?

Why would rational human beings, given a choice, choose to attack their neighbors rather than live together in peace? More pertinent, why would a rational human being choose to blow himself up rather than live? The Israelis, the US media and our politicians would have us believe that the Arabs are simply not rational. They routinely tell us that Arabs are "religious fanatics" who "hate freedom" or "hate our way of life" to quote George W. Bush. These arguments are fallacious and intellectually bankrupt.

The reason for Arab against Israeli violence is simple: The Israelis have been systematically repressing and brutalizing hundreds of thousands of Arabs on a scale unparalleled since World War 2. I have the proof.

In the link below are photographs of the victims of Israeli violence. They depict brutal, violent death, horrific personal injury and devastation of property which is simply unfathomable. ALL of it was perpetrated by Israelis against Arabs. ALL of the victims are civilians.

As you view these pictures ask yourself this question: What would YOU or YOUR LOVED ONES do in retaliation for these things?...]

If you have the guts and want to see the Israeli terror and wholesale murder of children, please take a look at the following site (the source of the obove paragraph). Please be forewarned however- very graphic images of slaughtered children courtesy of your American tax dollar. Aren't you proud?!

http://www.halturnershow.com/IsraeliAtrocities.html

Why is it that blogs and organizations all over the world have analyzed the pictures of Qana to show that they were staged but the major media like the Washington Post do not mention this? Remember the pictures of a "massacre" at a Palestinian refugee camp carried by all the media? It turned out in subsequent investigation that there never was a "massacre". Are the major media gullible or worse?

Sidney,

The pictures of the massacre of qana were staged?
Why make a fool of yourself by making a statement like this? Clearly, you must be either: (1) a sick, morally depraved, bloodthirsty zionist..whose heart and mind are so blinded with hate that they cant distinguish between staged and real pictures of murdered children and women. If you're such a hateful wringworm zionist, why not ask your beloved condoleeza rice (the ugly face of the new unamerican america)to bring you a glass of lebanese or palestinian children blood? she was just in the region..so I am sure she would happily accomodate you.

or (2): you are a brainwashed GOY who has been fed israeli/zionist propaganda by the spoon from the zionist-controlled american media, but especially from the israeli horror propaganda machine (aka FOX NEWS)- likely ever since you opened your eyes. In this case, there is some hope for you to regain your humanity- but pending some serious debugging of your brain.

On the News Hour last night, they had a montage of newspaper headlines about Qana. The Irish Independent, a quite respectable Dublin paper, ran the headline: Babies Slaughtered in Their Sleep. Remember, this is not an Arab paper, but an Irish one. This atrocity, coupled with the fierce resistance Hezbollah has mounted, is going to mean decades more of bad blood in the Middle East.

Dear Sidney
I'm well aware of what a handful of bloggers in the United States are saying about the Qana photos. I'm not ignoring it. I'm just not persuaded by what I have read. There seems to be no factual basis for saying that the rescue worker in the photos is from Hezbollah. The issue of the time stamps on the photos needs closer examination.

The larger idea that the bloggers are floating--that the deaths of women and children at Qana was somehow foisted by Hezbollah on a gullible world--is, shall we say, less than persuasive. Imagine that the rescue worker in question had never been photographed. Would the world reaction to this tragedy be any different? The answer is certain: No.

" a glass of lebanese or palestinian children blood"

ANaziSaysWhat?

Jeff, thank you for bringing this world opinion roundup.
I don't think Qana is (or will be) a turning point in this conflict. It's saddly called collateral damage.
I predict Israel will lost this war, unless it invades Lebanon full scale! but, apparently, after losing 9 soldiers last week, Israel got cold feet and retreated... in fear of its own public opinion... Now they continue to pound Lebanon from the air... and Hezbollah, after 21 days of conflict, is still able to fire rockets to Haifa...
Hezbollah, Israel own demon, will still be there and...much much stronger.
Sadly, I don't believe an international force in southern Lebanon will fix the problem. Only the Lebanese governement can disarm the Hezbollah, and with 2 hezbollah ministers in the governement, it's going to be tricky. After kicking out the Syrians, the US and France should have re-arm and train the lebanese army... It might have help Lebanon with disarming Hezbollah.
The only solution is that Israel should retreat to the 67 (or the 48) borders... help establish (and recognize) a Palestinian state. It's painful, but I guess it's the only choice the Israelis have now - if they want to live in "peace"...

Israel is murdering palestenians for 60 years and no one said anything. Palestenians are tortured , humilated and harrased daily under occupation and when they react to aggression and they are called terrorists. Even if they are quiet , mozzad won't let them queit. They trigger the bomb on their own population to blame palestenians.

The plan is simple. Exterminate palestenians and capture the land slowly and slowly.

Same logic applied. The killing in qana was planned. They wanted to scare civilaind and make them flee , so they can flatten qana and occupy that land.

These kind of atrocity willbe never forgotten especially in the internet world where every one knows everything immediately. Next generation of muslim kids will be brought to destroy israel.

As melgibson said Israel are the cause for all wars last century and this one.

out of all non jew americans only he has the courage to speak up against then. Jews media tortured tom cruise for his tirade against jew brook shields. Now they are turning their guns on mel gibson.

Something seriously wrong with america. May be everyone catching BUSH's idiot disease. No one is using their brain.

Right on the money, Alex !

Good on you!

"The world "slams barbarian Jews but forgets 7-year-old Israeli killed by Hizbullah rockets." Really ? I do not believe the world does. I certainly do not. Sounds to me like the abuser become the victim once again.

I will never forget the Qana children. Neither will I ever forget who actually murdered them and how. I will never forget who has just destroyed Lebanon as Hiroshima was destroyed (seen the images for all to see, on tv?). It is not with lines like the one above that I will me made to forget. That kind of propaganda, only those who utter it can swallow it.

Be it said, once and for all, that a crime is a crime is a crime. The best a criminal can do is to take responsibility for his crimes. The worst a criminal can do is to hold others responsible (worst of all his victims) responsible for them.

Sidney is right.

It is very likely that Qana was staged by Hezbolla and the deaths were not due to Israeli bombs/rockets.

Hezb is an evil organization with no compunction about waving dead bodies around and firing from civilian areas and blocking attempts of civilians from evacuating.
Why the 7 hour delay between Israeli strikes on missile launch sites in Qana and the building collapse?
Why are all dead males at Qana covered in sheets, but the dead women are uncovered and the dead children are waved around like rags?
Why were the press prevented from going near the collapsed building?

I know I sound like a 9-11 was an inside job type, but in this case, I think it is plausible that Hezb would do such horrible things. They have proven themselves to be that manipulative.

I hope that Israel ignores the public outcry (it isn't as though the Arabs or Europeans liked them before this event, so why should they care now?) and does what it can to recover a failing military intervention. If the Arabs and Euros wanted influence over Israel, they should be ready to see Israel's point of view(isn't that what everone criticizes Bush for not doing with Syria/Iran/NoKorea?).

Everyone says unilateralism and going it alone is bad; well, lets see who sends troops to south Lebanon to replace the colluding, useless UNIFIL and actually enforce 1559... Otherwise, France/the UN/and muslim countries should shut up and let Israel defend itself.

printer

thanks for that comment.

"Among the dead were 37 children and a large number of women, according to the Lebanese health minister."

Are we to take this as meaning that few men were killed?

Where were the men? Were they out bowling or playing backgammon?

Is it possible that the husbands and fathers were outside and preparing to fire rockets at Israelis?

If this is the case then it would mean that the Hezbollah fighters decided to stay and fight rather than move their families out of harm's way.

The U.S. and Israel are like muscle bound behemoths: they don't know when to rein in their power. After at least a century and a half of modern era terrorism, starting with the nihilist and narodniki of Russia, imperial states still don't get it, even though their apparatchiks have coined the term, asymmetrical warfare. The more power a state uses against terrorist, the greater the asymmetry, which, unless every vestige of the terrorist is eliminated, results in victory for the terrorist. I imagine think tanks have calculated the ratio of the respective resources used by each side to produce a kill. In comparison to the imperialist state, I suspect terrorist get by on the cheap in respect to funds and materials used; their greatest resource is the great mass of disaffected youth in the third world. The question is whether the imperial powers will feel the pinch of the financial burden of asymmetrical warfare before the terrorists run out of willing martyrs? Israel's current offensive, for all the destruction it has wrought, only has succeeded in increasing the human arsenal of the terrorists; every bomb recruits a thousand more eager suicide bombers. If the cause of all this carnage was the abduction of a couple of soldiers, then the Israelis picked the wrong tool in their arsenal. They are known for their skill in counter terrorist raids using small groups of highly trained commandos; they are also very adept in surgical rocket strikes to eliminate high officials of terrorist organizations. Why did they unleash such relatively massive power in this instance? A big brute wins respect for using minimum force to fend off a drunk, pestering wimp in a bar, but would be roundly condemned if he beat the geek into a bloody pulp, regardless of how irritating the pest was (a principle of classic self-defense is minimum force it to be used). Israel, with the backing of the U.S. has proved to be a mindless thug, trading finesse for brutal force; score another victory for non-state over state terrorism.

Some horrible truths that they don't want you to know.

The Zionists believe that all of greater Israel is theirs.

The Palestinians believe that all of greater Israel is theirs.

Neither side is willing to share; as far as they are concerned their 'right' to the land precludes anyone else from being there.

There can be no peace here.

This war isn't about who is being brutalized, both sides have brutalized each other. This war is being waged because neither side is willing to live with the other. It is all Israel's fault, its all the Palestinian's fault.

You know what the saddest part is? There really is enough land for both of them.

There is absolutely no reason why they can't live side-by-side or even in the same country besides utter foolishness.

Printer, you asked why rational human beings would attack their neighbors rather then live side-by-side and live in peace?

The answer is, they don't.

Rational people and states don't attack their neighbors but the problem here is none of these people is rational.

The Israelites are not rational but neither are the Palestinians.

Here is the best "one" could say to the flatworm zionists/savage, bloodthirsty israeli child killers and their pawns, the GOYIM....just to remind them of who they are:
"Ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning...."
- St. John, viii, 44.

You have always had a verocious apetite for children's blood, especially christian children. who are you kidding?
clearly, you are very angry and very demoralized that the pictures of the massacres you are committing in lebanon are coming out to the whole world to see. It indicates that you are losing your mind and becoming compltely stupid evident by your talk of staged pictures and by your attempt to blame hizbolla for your own crimes against humanity. You could try, but in the end you will only be able to fool yourself.

For years I struggled to persuade my fellow Arabs that America was our ally. I now realize that I was wrong. America is not the ally of the Arab people. It is our enemy.

America has thrown its full weight behind Israel's scorched earth massacres, and the blood each and every one of those children of Qana is now on the hands of every American.

I'm as critical of Israel as I am of the US, but I think a little (only a little balance) needs to be brought in here. The difference between crass anti-semitism and legitimate, if harsh, criticism of the Israeli government must be maintained. All the blood-drinking, inflamatory rhetoric is counterproductive, racist, and wrong.

The facts speak for themselves. In the Lebanon war, as in the West Bank and Gaza, there are real Israeli casualities, most of them civilian and many of them children. But the vast majority of casualties, civilian and children again, are non-Israeli.

Israel seems to treat every relatively minor attack as an excuse to visit 10-fold suffering on the perpetrators and the civilians around them. As we can see, this approach only earns them more enemies, which then give them more excuses for Qana-style massacres.

It's quite possible that there are forces in Israeli politics who want to push this conflict into total regional war, which Israel would win easily. Or it could be a US-style mixture of this ideology with strategic and tactical incompetence. Either way, it's disasterous. And most importantly, it eliminates any claim Israel might have had to a moral high-ground.

There will always be ultra-Zionist panderers in the US. The rest of the world sees a little more clearly, though not without its various biases.

Bottom line, unless you favor the extermination of either all Jews or all non-Jews in the region, it's a complicated situtaion. The growing view of non-Jews that Hizbullah and Hamas are their best hopes is genuinely disturbing. But Israel seems to be doing everything it can to force the non-Jews of the Middle East to make a decision between subjugation and humiliation or fiery, glorious and stupid death.

DUCK ....Why should Lebanon "SHARE"?? THe Jews move in, take their land, and bleat that the displaced, killed, burtalized MID EAST should share. LET'S send some Iranians to your house to share.
AND....DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA how much love is going to flow to people like you, wherever they are, next?

"It is very likely that Qana was staged by Hezbolla and the deaths were not due to Israeli bombs/rockets."

John, do us all a favour and get a grip on reality. Even the IDF swiftly apologized and promised an investigation. They know what they did and there's no way around it. How did Hezbollah drop a bomb from the sky without any fighter jets or warplanes?

It's like me saying "Oh, the rockets that are fired in Israel are actually fired by Mossad / IDF to make everyone think it's from Hamas / Hezbollah..." Give me a break.

Stop trying to deflect and distract criticism from a tragic event by making up conspiracies.

Remember how some people said 9/11 was the work of the Jewish Intelligence Agency and how everyone laughed? That's about how your statement looks right about now unless there is SOME evidence to back it up.

for "James".
WHY SHOULD the difference between crass anti-semitism and criticism of Israel be maintained? Frirst of all-- it won't be. And second, it's the Israel first neocons and AIRPAC, etc., in the Unite States that hijacked foreign policy under this dismal president. I fear, too, but let the future roll.

"Are we to take this as meaning that few men were killed?

Where were the men? Were they out bowling or playing backgammon?"

Murray - Men don't just sit around at home with the women and children all day. Like any other nation in this world, they go out and work. Again, you're taking a tragedy and trying to twist it into some major conspiracy like other people on this board.

Seeing as how the attack on the village was somewhat unexpected, the men were most likely out at jobs or looking for someplace more secure for their family. (Yes, there were leaflets dropped warning that nobody is safe, but, nobody figured they would drop a bomb right on a village.)

James,
Someone who brings their family to reside on the ruins of your home is not civilian, anyway you look at it. Please have some moral clarity here. If a chinese or russian..or whatever family came to the US, killed my family and built their own home on its ruins, I would eliminate them all as they are killer invaders. I am sure you would turn your other cheek, james- should this happen to you..Or am I wrong on that one?
Lets not fall prey for the zionist/israeli propaganda and adpot thier views here.

"DUCK ....Why should Lebanon "SHARE"??"

Did I ever mention Lebanon?

"THe Jews move in, take their land, and bleat that the displaced, killed, burtalized MID EAST should share. "

This is why I said, "They don't want you to know."

What you just spounted is propaganda, It is a lie.

"LET'S send some Iranians to your house to share."

Well first it was a Lebonese, right now its a Pakistani sharing my house. Nice people, both of them.

I haven't had an Iranian yet, but who knows, maybe the next one will be.

Perhaps as an American I have the wrong mindset. The thought of someone who is a different race or religion living next door or even renting a room in my house doesn't bother me much. It certinally doesn't fill me with horror.

Of course I can turn your question around, why should Isreal bother sharing land with the palistineans?

"AND....DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA how much love is going to flow to people like you, wherever they are, next?"

Let me guess, you don't agree with me so you are going to try and kill me?

As I said, irrational.

"Remember how some people said 9/11 was the work of the Jewish Intelligence Agency and how everyone laughed? That's about how your statement looks right about now unless there is SOME evidence to back it up." by KJ

Only difference is that the role of israel and AIPAC in 9/11 is no laughable conspiracy.
Take a look at the link below for a nice read. This is not an opinion piece, but rather a set of easily verifiable facts. See for yourself. I am absolutely certain that if you bother to read it (anc Check out the facts for yourself) that You will NOT be laughing afterwards.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm

Keep in mind, there is a big..difference between a conspiracy and a set of verifiable FACTS, isn't there?

Here is the Link again for Israel and AIPAC role in facilitating 9/11.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm

DUCK,
You seem to have the brains of, well..a duck. You either have a very low level of education, or you're just a plain fool. Makes it hard to respond to you in any meaningful way..because you truly lack the minimum basic requirement of elemntary knowledge of the subject matter but more dangerously- you don't seem to have much intelect to get you anywhere. I will (later) have a set of books for you that you should read before you come here and waste your time..and take space on this blog. May be then you just might have something valuable to contribute.

So, american-

What is your solution? How would you resolve all these conflicts? What is your plan to bring justice and peace to all parties?

I am somewhat surprised at those who continue to insist in this new world of asymmetrical warfare that the only answer is total victory through overwhelming force. IQs in this country and in particular among our ruling class must have diminished in dramatic fashion.

The present war in Israel and Lebanon is no different than the American experience in Iraq. All of this shock and awe type thinking will only lead to a protracted period of the same sort of asymmetrical violence that we are seeing in Iraq.

If you are really interested in what is happening to the world you should read some of the recent historical work being done by professionals within the security and intelligence communities on the evolution of Al Quaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas and other terror groups and of the mercurial, charismatic men who run those organizations. You are likely to find that their evolution has less to do with ideology and hatred of freedom and democracy than a visceral response to the American military presense in that region and the perception that America and Israel are alligned in a Jewish/Christian crusade against Islam.

To " ":

You answer your own question very well. It is possible and right to point out the wrongs of the governments of Israel and the US (separately or combined), and to criticise their empire-building or expansionist angendas, as you do. It is also possible to do this while wishing that no harm comes to any American, Israeli, Jew, Muslim, Druze, etc.

There are people of all stripes with good and evil intentions and opinions. My concern is not whether someone is part of any national or religious category, but with the actions they carry out or actively support. This goes for Hizbullah as much as it does for the Israeli government. IMO Both are equally in the wrong, though Israel deserves extra censure for using its greater might to do greater harm.

I might be of Jewish descent on my father's side. My avid geneologist (but slightly anti-semitic) mother never looked into his family tree, or at least never told us what she found, so I don't know. I doesn't matter to me much one way or the other. But the possibility makes it easy for me to see the difference between being Jewish and being a supporter of the Israeli government. Neither has anything to do with the other except in ideology which can be rejected or accepted.

Thank you Mexin for those comments.

Out of curiosity, am I a fool because I mindlessly swallow the lies of the evil Zionist state or because I am supporting the brutal Palestinian terrorists?

For people who like to be known as the victims of the Holocaust, people who have suffered as they like to remind people on a daily basis, they sure are acting exactly like their oppressors. Senseless assassinations of innocents, children, women, senseless destruction. The worst of it is that they claim that they are trying to destroy Hezbollah, but how many members of Hezbollah have they actually killed amongst the more then 500 innocents who have died so violently? They are bombing bridges to cut off these poor people's escape routes, television stations. No more cell phones, no more TV, what does that have to do with Hezbollah? What is going to remain when everything is over? This is ridiculous and the shame of it is that the US backs them up in this parody when the rest of the world says let's stop killing first and talk later, they say no, let's keep killing while we are talking.
No evil deed goes unpunished. That's all I gotta say.

For people who like to be known as the victims of the Holocaust, people who have suffered as they like to remind people on a daily basis, they sure are acting exactly like their oppressors. Senseless assassinations of innocents, children, women, senseless destruction. The worst of it is that they claim that they are trying to destroy Hezbollah, but how many members of Hezbollah have they actually killed amongst the more then 500 innocents who have died so violently? They are bombing bridges to cut off these poor people's escape routes, television stations. No more cell phones, no more TV, what does that have to do with Hezbollah? What is going to remain when everything is over? This is ridiculous and the shame of it is that the US backs them up in this parody when the rest of the world says let's stop killing first and talk later, they say no, let's keep killing while we are talking.
No evil deed goes unpunished. That's all I gotta say.

"What is your solution? How would you resolve all these conflicts? What is your plan to bring justice and peace to all parties?" by wiccan

Solution? quite simple- as a matter of fact.
Undo the injustice and the moral wrong done by creating an illegal state (israel) for european zionists in the heart of the arab/moslem world. If the jews like to live and play by the rules of the rightful owners of the land, I am sure they can. Otherwise, get the hell out of there.

Israel holds those lands by manifest ursurpation. Should all lands that have been usurped be returned to their prior inhabitants? Got your bags packed?

Everyone seems to be missing the point that this bout of "spring-cleaning" was set in motion by Olmert et al when they and their aipac supporters formented the plan to "Starve Hamas" ......no rational person could think this would or could have any possible good ending.

The Idf has been waiting for years to take on HB and Olmerts weakness was the perfect opportunity for them....today the IAF attacked a relief truck at the Lebanese/Syrian border...how long before they attack a Syrian target and claim it was "self defense" or a "mistake" or a "pre-emptive" strike?

The Israeli military need wars to prove their value to society and justify the massive defense spending (and handouts). Also the likud/kadima types would have no role in an Israel at peace with its neighbours which is why every time things are moving in a positive direction they find a way to set things back.

If Israel withdrew to 1967 borders I think they would have that peace within 10 years.

Unfortunately I don't think it will ever happen unless the US stops its unconditional support of the insane policies of the Israeli right.

Excellent point, wiccan. Despite the violence in their foundations, Israel is as much a fixture of the world as the US. Wishing either away is foolish and impossible. Working to change their policies as states is not. It may be extremely hard, but it's possible, and the most positive thing we can do in the situation.

Yeah, List those lands for me, wiccan boy.

How many "countries" came about based on some UN resolution and some dirty political manuevering?
Read your history and you will no.
More importantly, how many countries were implanted in the midst of some other region/country...like the cancer that is israel? If you can come up with the creation of ONE country that is similar to that id israel's, I will concede to you. You too seem to need some extensive eucation on the subject.

Excellent point, wiccan. Despite the violence in their foundations, Israel is as much a fixture of the world as the US. Wishing either away is foolish and impossible. Working to change their policies as states is not. It may be extremely hard, but it's possible, and the most positive thing we can do in the situation.

Yeah, List those lands for me, wiccan boy.

How many "countries" came about based on some UN resolution and some dirty political manuevering?
Read your history and you will know.
More importantly, how many countries were implanted in the midst of some other region/country...like the cancer that is israel? If you can come up with the creation of ONE country that is similar to that of israel's, I will concede to you. You too seem to need some extensive eucation on the subject.

In response to what I wrote above, KJ wrote, "Murray - Men don't just sit around at home with the women and children all day. Like any other nation in this world, they go out and work. Again, you're taking a tragedy and trying to twist it into some major conspiracy like other people on this board."

KJ! The bombing took place at 01:00, a time when most men are home from work. If relatively few main died then the chances are that they were Hezbollah fighters and busy fighting Israel.

"Yeah, List those lands for me, wiccan boy."

Well the United States comes to mind. We userped our land from Mexico, Spain, England, not to mention the natives.

Come to think of it, All the countries in the americas would fall under that.

Parts of spain were once under Arab control.

Thats all I can think of off the top of my head.

Why is the US and the Israeli Goverment insisting on implementation of UN Res. 1559? There are several outstanding UN Resolutions concerning Israeli misbehavior, like 242.

Also, Keep in mind that it took Israel 22 YEARS to leave Lebanon when Resolution 425 insisted it be done immediately.

UN resolutions are useless if we only insist on enforcing the ones we want to and pretend the others don't exist.

Lebanese website blames Hizbullah for Qana deaths

Anti-Syrian elements in Lebanon openly point finger at Hizbullah as guilty of killing of dozens of civilians in order to curtail plans for disarming group. 'Hizbullah has placed rocket launcher on building's roof and brought invalid children inside in bid to provoke Israeli response,' they write
Roee Nahmias

Is Hizbullah behind the tragic incident in the village of Qana that claimed the lives of some 60 people? While the Israeli army continues to investigate the circumstances leading to the building's collapse, some in Lebanon do not hesitate to point the finger at the Shiite organization and claim it is to blame for the death of dozens.

The Lebanese website LIBANOSCOPIE http://www.libanoscopie.com/fulldoc....code=994&cat=2, associated with Christian elements in the country and which openly supports the anti-Syrian movement called the "March 14 Forces," reported that Hizbullah has masterminded a plan that would result in the killing of innocents in the Qana village, in a bid to foil Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora's "Seven Points Plan", which calls for deployment of the Lebanese army in southern Lebanon and the disarming of Hizbullah.

'Disabled children placed inside building'

"We have it from a credible source that Hizbullah, alarmed by Siniora's plan, has concocted an incident that would help thwart the negotiations. Knowing full well that Israel will not hesitate to bombard civilian targets, Hizbullah gunmen placed a rocket launcher on the roof in Qana and brought disabled children inside, in a bid to provoke a response by the Israeli Air Force. In this way, they were planning to take advantage of the death of innocents and curtail the negotiation initiative," the site stated.

poor murray, trying (in vain) to dispute the indsiputable fact that the subhuman savage israelis are child killer since ever. keep trying, you certainly got your work cut out for you. Its becoming harder and harder for you to deceive us, is it not? Your death grip on the information that people can access these days is slipping from your hands faster than you can fabricate another bold face lie.

poor murray and miriam, trying (in vain) to dispute the indsiputable fact that the subhuman savage israelis are child killer since ever. keep trying, you certainly got your work cut out for you. Its becoming harder and harder for you to deceive us, is it not? Your death grip on the information that people can access these days is slipping from your hands faster than you can fabricate another bold face lie.

Q: Why is the US and the Israeli Goverment insisting on implementation of UN Res. 1559? There are several outstanding UN Resolutions concerning Israeli misbehavior, like 242.

Also, Keep in mind that it took Israel 22 YEARS to leave Lebanon when Resolution 425 insisted it be done immediately.

UN resolutions are useless if we only insist on enforcing the ones we want to and pretend the others don't exist.

A: General Assembly Resolutions are not binding under international law, but Security Council Resolutions are. R 242 was agreed to by both the Palestinian Authority and Israel to be the basis of negotiations for a lasting settlement. It was the guiding principle of land of peace used for the Camp David Accords and Taba. The two sides could not agree on some of the most basic provisions in the negotiations. R 1559 is a Security Council Resolution, so it carries the weight of international law. It should be enforced for the good of both countries so that this can be avoided in the future, but it's naive for anyone to think that a group like Hizballah can be taken out militarily.

I heard the Israeli Ambassador to the UN say very similar things to what Miriam just wrote about the disaster at Qana. I couldn't believe his "chutzpah" at the time, and I really can't beleive that ANYONE with two brain cells functioning would accept it.
People are really willing to beleive anything at all if it helps their skewed view of the world in general and specifically Israeli aggressions against impoverished, now homeless and some (more everyday) lifeless civilians.

Israel should retreat to the 67 border, and help establish and recognize a Palestinian state. It will be painful for them, but that's the only solution.
This war is not going anywhere... Israel will fail...
I can't believe that Israel is going to accept an international coercive force under french command! That will be a first for the Israelis who really dislike France...

Yoo hoo! Osama

Where were the men at 01:00 while their wives and children were sleeping.

Read my original post. You may find it enlightening.

Perhaps in the Amazon jungle lands are still inhabited by their original tribes, but I doubt it. But that's not your point, is it?

My point is that Israel ain't going nowhere. There is no practical way to relocate those people, and where would you put them? Antartica? (Then the penguins would hate the Jews.)

Let us deal with reality. Foster the two-state solution, and learn to live and let live.

For "Osama ben Fenklestein." You can shout Zionazi a thousand times and I don't care. I am actually not supportive of the scope of Israel's military campaign in Lebanon. What happened was a tragedy, but there is a very real possibility that it was a tragedy that was encouraged by the actions of Hizballah, which is a very problematic organization. The more civilians counted as dead, the stronger they get as an organization.

Miriam: "General Assembly Resolutions are not binding under international law, but Security Council Resolutions are."

Both 242 and 245 were Security council resolutions.

22 years for 245 to be enacted, and then Three years later violated again

It has been almost 40 years since 242 and virtually nothing has been done for it.

Way to destroy your own argument

["I heard the Israeli Ambassador to the UN say very similar things to what Miriam just wrote about the disaster at Qana. I couldn't believe his "chutzpah" at the time, and I really can't beleive that ANYONE with two brain cells functioning would accept it.
People are really willing to beleive anything at all if it helps their skewed view of the world in general and specifically Israeli aggressions against impoverished, now homeless and some (more everyday) lifeless civilians."] by anonymous

Thank you for this post.
She should be embarrased to quote from a site like libanoscope and from a zionist writer (Roee Nahmias). Compare the libanoscope site with this site: http://www.judeoscope.ca. the zionsit writer appears on both sites and both sites writeen in similar language? coinsidence? WHAT HATEFUL ZIONIST PROPAGANDA!

I guess some people would go to whatever length to put a human face on the subhuman, child killer savage israelis and their terrorist, illegal jewish state.

Hi Thom,

I responded specifically to R 242 and stated that both sides agreed to be bound by the terms, which were the basis of negotiations at Camp David and Taba. Negotiations broke down when the two sides could not agree to a peace agreement for a two state solution. Implementation for 242 requires both sides for implementation. As for UN Resolutions on Israel and Lebanon, Israel left Lebanon and it was acknowledged by the UN.

Yoo Hoo Murray.
Where were the men in
Quana? Fighting. Like they shouldn't defend themsleves and their nation?

PS. NONE of your posts are enlightening. Just typically stupid.

Yoo Hoo! Murray.
You seem to think it was illegal or somehow wrong for the men in Qana to be defending themselves!...fighting Israeli invaders. Only the Israelis get to fight? Not even joking, it's a mindset you've been taught. Never ceases to astound the rest of us.

James,

I think you are to something. Why would Israel launch such a massive strike on Lebanon in response to the kidnapping of a couple of its soldiers? The kidnappings were, most likely, not the cause of the invasion, but, rather, the excuse, just as 9/11 was the excuse for the Bush administration to invade Iraq. With the skill and ability of the Israelis in launching commando raids, it is hard to believe that they couldn't have mounted a successful raid to recover the captives. However, Israel's offensive is not to force the captives to be given up; the captives have been written off. It is a retaliatory revenge action to punish and cow a whole population, which is considered a war crime. However, we know that only the vanquished ever pay the penalty for war crimes, not the victors or the clients of the world's only superpower.

yes, yoohootoo..

As you can see, the vicious zionists are "flocking" together here like the pack of wild dogs that they are trying to defend the murder of children by the terrorist jewish state.It just shows the kind of merciless child killers that they are and have always been. Must be so difficult for them to live in their own skin. No wonder that no human being was or will ever be able to stand them.

miriam,
242 does not mention two sides. It calls for the recognition of each belligerent party by the others. It calls for Isreal to leave all occupied territory, which the did for one contry. They are still in Syria's territory, the have Lebanese territory, the have Jordanian Territory, and though they left Sinai, they kept the Gaza Strip from Egypt.
The resloution passed UNANIMOUSLY in the Council, and was reaffirmed by Security Council Resolution 338 after six years and the Yom Kippur War.

Also, how can you use the past tense when you say "Israel left Lebanon?" It seems to me that going north from Israel with tanks airplanes and an army, is not leaving, but is called invading.

Perhaps if we enforced UN Resolutions in ascending order, there might be a sense of fairness, instead of the bitterness we are fomenting now.

"Never Again!!!" or more likely "Here We Go Again"!

Every 7 or 8 years we hear the Israeli battle cry "Never Again!" and another show of military might begins. The Israeli military juggernaut is supreme when it comes to destroying its neighbors infrastructure and economic viability. But so far, it has failed to destroy resistance to its policies,the will of its enemies or bring peace to the region.

Some would argue that the very poverty and economic hopelessness that these major Israeli attacks create will continue to foster the emnity and extremism in the Arab population. Such conditions are being created in Lebanon today.

Will this conflict continue on? Almost definitely! The UN Security Council cannot act. The US veto guarantees that. Can Israel be militarily or economically defeated? Impossible while the United States continues to support Israel.

I suspect this war will only end when the United States perceives that is in its economic interest to stabilize the region and it has the political strength at home to impose conditions for a settlement. Until then, we will continue to hear "Never Again!" every 7-8 years.

The lying, cowardly, Hezbollah kissers are coming out of the woodwork on command. Well, Hezbollah sets up their weapons deliberately in civilian areas, uses ambulances for troop and weapon transports, and deliberately fires into civilian areas where there are no Israeli miliraty targets. Yet when Israel shoots back, from the woodwork come the terrorist apologisers, holocaust deniers, and moral equivicators to slander Israel. Would the US tolerate someone on our borders rocketing us day and night? And if Israel evacuates her civilians to shelters, why would Hezbollah not do the same? The answer is, every dead civilian on either side is a tragedy to Israel and to the civilized world, but every dead civilian on either side is a celebration for Hezbollah and her backers, and something to wave proudly on television. For the sake of the civilized world I hope Israel wins this and that the democratic and free nations of the world back her to the hilt. The little slimeballs who come out of the woodwork to jump on the pro-whatever-terrorist-group-it-is-this-week bandwagon whenever there is a war invlving Israel can crawl back under their rocks.

Quick question: If the Hezbollah folks won there, where would they want to go and attack next? Think about it. Think hard.

".... when you repeatedly let such obviously hateful anti-semtic comments by American appear on your discussion you make it hard to believe that you are not sympathetic to that point of view" -true(i.e.FALSE)american

First, like all zionists who call themselves americans, you are such a thieve- you are not even above stealing other people's names. You must be some AIPAC agent trying to silence people here. Second: No body cares anymore about your anti-semite epithets. No body is calling for nuknig israel or the jews as many zionists like you have done on this post advocating nuking the M.E. Just stating the truth, which seems to burn yout buttom. If you are such an ardent zionist, why don't you go and relocate to the hills of the west bank? May there you will get yourself a palestinian stone in the forehead. It just might knock some sense into you and set you straight.
Stop crying about your BS anti-semitism. If you want to be loved, try to do something lovable. Worthless Ringworm.

"What happened was a tragedy, but there is a very real possibility that it was a tragedy that was encouraged by the actions of Hizballah, which is a very problematic organization. The more civilians counted as dead, the stronger they get as an organization."

Murray and Miriam, your attempts to deflect blame on to the victims of the Qana tragedy is even more morally reprehensible than those who call 911 a conspiracy. This is going to be the only time I respond to your vulgar and morally bankrupt comments.

It is an enlightening glimpse into your thought process that you are using the same line of reasoning some extremists in the Muslim world use to blame 911 on the Jews. After all who gained most from the 911 attacks? There has been a surge in anti-Muslim/Arab sentiment since then. Muslims in the U.S are afraid to even talk politics with their family members overseas because they are afraid of being profiled and harassed by the FBI under the Bush Administration's illegal measures. The U.S has attacked two Muslim countries, and because of 911, there are people in the U.S who just cannot see past their hatred of all things Arab/Muslim and therefore blindly support and justify any Israeli (or any anti-Muslim/Arab) brutality that occurs.

Not that it will matter to people who are so obviously devoid of any humanistic values, but if you knew anything of Muslim society and culture, you would realize that men and women who are not related to each other do not typically share the same quarters. With so many women and children living and sleeping in close quarters (in the basement hoping to be safe from Israeli bombing), the men would have sheltered elsewhere. It is also entirely possible that the men in a display of chivalry let the women and children use the limited space in the basement of the building, a seemingly secure and safe haven for their wives, mothers, daughters and sons.

Exactly.

They would not attack anywhere. The only reason they exist is to resist the territorially expansionist Israelis. Remove the threat, and they will collapse.

that means Israel should stop attacking, not be annihilated.

Oscar,

Exactly.

Well, "american", you have rebuked us all very nicely. You still haven't told us what your solution would be to gain peace in the ME. Is it the destruction of the State of Israel? And all Israelis can either leave or die? Am I close?

Didn't the Israeli Justice Minister say that everyone in southern Lebanon was a terrorist and was condemned to death? If that isn't a statement of intent to kill the civilians at Qana, I don't know what is. Israel has long believed in targeting civilians. Ben Gurion said so much in his diary. Begin also admitted to it.

The whole Oslo process system revolved around targeting Palestinian civilians for the purposes of "discipline"; one Palestinian kills a Jew, and the whole Occupied Territories get "locked down", disrupting the lives of all the people. This is supposed to remind the people to stop any potential killers of Jews before they strike. "Collective punishment" is a term often described for this.

This of course does not always reach the level of massacres but the principle is the same. Besides, this kind of thing is going on in Gaza now; first the siege designed to punish people for voting for the wrong party. Now, killings and destruction to punish the taking of the prisoner.

The reason Israel targets civilians as a policy is partly due to sadism and racism, as from a psychologically of view it is very insulting to someone to have their police stations bombed and then be told to do the bombers' bidding as Arafat was told by Bush and Sharon in 2001.

It's like when you own a slave, whip the slave and then order the slave to continue working for you. In a sense, the Israelis and Bush see the Arabs as slaves, as owned by Israel. From an Arab point of view, this is extremely insulting and psychologically, it becomes essential to defy Israel to assert that they are not Israel's slaves. When Arafat did this, of course, Bush claimed he was total evil, to be isolated and destroyed.

I think it amuses the Israelis to see the Arabs as their slaves, to do their bidding. Then there is laziness; Hizbullah is too elusive, too difficult to destroy. It's easier to destroy civilians in order to pressure them into somehow getting rid of Hizbullah.

So bearing all this in mind, I find it amazing to see people claim that civilians die in Lebanon because of Israeli "mistakes" or because Hizbullah must be hiding among the people. As Israel's intelligence on Hizbullah is pathetic, how can they know where they are? These people so willing to lap up Israeli propaganda insist on ignoring the words of the Justice Minister, the words of Ben Gurion and Begin and the entire history of the State of Israel and its favourite policy of collective punishment.

Look, Nobody here, and nobody in his right mind wants the destruction of Israel.
However, it has become very clear that her response to aggression does not work.
If it did, then after 1948 all attacks would have ceased.

It is time for a change of policy. Attacks and misunderstanding bring resentment and more attacks. Got it?

From CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/01/mideast.main/index.html

"Meanwhile, the United Nations said it has not had much success getting aid into southern Lebanon during Israel's self-declared 48-hour lull in fighting.

"We did not achieve much," spokesman Khaled Mansour said. The United Nations asked Israel to allow three convoys through with about 30 trucks, but Israel denied permission for two of them, he said."

The oh so benevolent Israeli's. I suppose the U.N is also controlled by Syria and Iran in Israeli eyes (A view the neo-cons in the U.S probably do believe). Food and medicine for injured women and children, how dare they try!

OK, Zain, what's your solution? What do we do to bring peace to the ME?

WICCAN....NO NO! It's the Israelis who drop leaflets and tell the Lebanese to leave or die. You mean that isn't nice?

"Well, "american", you have rebuked us all very nicely. You still haven't told us what your solution would be to gain peace in the ME. Is it the destruction of the State of Israel? And all Israelis can either leave or die? Am I close?"- by wiccan

No, wiccan. You are not close. Your mind, however, just might be (close[d]).
Had you read my reply (with an open mind) you would have noticed that israelis would not have to leave or die. I stated very clearly that the choice would be theirs. They can either chose to live in the country of the rightful owners/inhabitants of the land and play by their rules, or..they could chose to get the hell out of there. They could easily come and live here in the good old us of a. My tax money is going to them (welfare) anyway- whether they live here or in someone else's land in the middle east. At least my alternative would bring some peace, justice, and security to the world instead of this unending bloodshed that has been caused by the failed evil jewish/zionist empire.
If you don't see the difference between this and what you are trying to say in your post- I am afraid I wouldn't be able to clarify it any further for you. You might as well then go back to your cheap sofa and listen to your tv talk heads..have them fell/ poisin your mind with their zionist propaganda while you're enjoying your cheep K-Mart popcorn and "Cheez It".

Yoohootoo wrote: "You seem to think it was illegal or somehow wrong for the men in Qana to be defending themselves!...fighting Israeli invaders. Only the Israelis get to fight? Not even joking, it's a mindset you've been taught. Never ceases to astound the rest of us."

Dear Rest of Us,

Hezbollah has chosen to "defend" themselves by firing unguided rockets and missiles at populated areas in Israel.

In doing so Hezbollah has murdered a minimum of three Arab children in Israel in the past little while. Only their poor aim has limited the number of deaths of civilians, both Arab and Jew.

The point that I have consistently tried to make is that if few men were killed in relationship to the number of women in Qana, that it is very likely that their husbands chose to fight rather than ensure that their families were safe.

The men are indeed to be commended for their sense of duty in fighting their enemy, but if they chose to fight rather than to ensure that their wives and children were safe, it was obviously an unwise choice and one that I am confident they (but not you) will regret.

Jersey Dave,

Being critical of Israel's actions does not make one a holocaust denier or an anti-Semite. The holocaust happened. It was a terrible event. No one should ever forget it, but it, also, should not be used as a defense by Zionists for war crimes, illegal acts, inhumane acts, stealing land, etc. It is ironic that the perpetrators of the holocaust and their lackeys were predominantly Europeans. What penalty has Germany (other than punishing a few for war crimes), Poland or any other European country paid for the holocaust? Instead of taking, say, Bavaria and giving it to the Jews as a national homeland, the Jews were cavalierly given the land of a people who had not participated in the holocaust, and, by the way, are fellow Semites (it is laughable when Arabs are labeled anti-Semites). Another irony is that creation of a Jewish state has partially contributed to the almost complete realization of one of the Nazi's primary goals, i.e., the elimination of Jews from Europe (of course this is not the only cause as emigration to the U.S and other countries has played a huge part).

Thom, I am not going to get into a legal discussion about implementation of 242. People can do their homework on the resolution and figure it out for themselves what it means for the two sides to live with defensible borders, peace and security.

Again, I'm not impressed with Israel's military strategy for handling Hizballah. I think they should have refused to negotiate, they should have hit a few targetted Hizballah areas in the South and pressed the international community on Hizballah and Iran and Syria's influence. I don't think Hizballah can be taken out militarily, or at least not in a limited campaign like this and it isn't worth it because of the damage to civilian infrastreucture and loss of life, which is happening on bot sides. But something does need to be done about Hizballah. This incident was a tragedy, but Hizballah benefits from this kind of tragedy and that is the truth. Saying so doesn't make me inhumane or some kind of a nazi. Even the UN has told Hizballah to stop their cowardly acts of using civilians as human shields. A lot of the people on these forums live in a a very black and white world and your hatred is intense and obvious.

for those who don't understand Hizballah's tactics:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html

The charge of anti-semitism is the bullet proof vest that these Zionist have. Any criticism of Israel is automatically labeled anti-semitic. Israel and it's supporters in the States (i.e. AIPAC and the Evangelicals) have filled the pockets of US lawmakers in return for weapons of mass destruction. And lets not forget the green light to slaughter as many muslim and christian children as they can. Who is the real TERRORIST. I mean we say the word enought in the States. Have we just forgot the meaning of it?

Wiccan,

My solution (This has been articulated best by J, Karim, Notice and others) is that we stop doing what we have been for the past 60 years; blindly supporting all Israeli policy in the Middle East. Israel has taken the stance that it will not negotiate until all violence stops. That is an unrealistic expectation and dooms any peace process before it starts. There is no way for a cash strapped occupied people living in ghetto like conditions to enforce such blanket authority. Israel needs to negotiate without pre-conditions with Fateh (specifically Abu Mazen) and the political leadership of Hamas that is willing to accept Israel within the 1967 borders (The Arab states have already indicated that they will recognize Israel as long as it retreats to the 67 borders). It needs to dismantle ALL settlements that exist in Arab territory within the 67 borders and allow the Palestinian state to come into existence even as negotiations continue to disarm the various armed groups. An arms embargo can be imposed on the state to ensure that these groups do not re-arm themselves. Groups like Hamas exist because of the occupation; they remain popular and command support and respect because of the occupation. Once the occupation is gone, the Palestinians will focus on making their own state prosperous and these groups will die out. Sporadic violence will probably still continue, perpetrated by rogue elements, but I believe even that can be contained to a very large extent by the Palestinians themselves provided Israel does not react in the heavy handed and brutal way it typically does.

We need to try something different than just attempting to beat a people into submission. It has not worked for the last sixty years and will not work.

Thank you, "american", for clarifying your solution. Now, do you think it has a hope in hell of being adopted?

The people of Qana were poor and could not afford the petrol to leave their village so they found the safest building for the children, they believed that a three story block with a big basement would be good. Half of the children were seriously disabled and they were all from two extended families. Only one little boy survived but his little sister died in her mothers arms.

They had leaflets asking them to leave but they had no cars and the Israeli military had bombed the roads. Down the road a bit a car was found by the red cross with a mum and her one day old baby who had been bombed two days earlier. No-one knows their names so they were buried in a mass grave.

Back to Qana - the bombing was at 1 am and the children were all asleep in the bunker while the bombs rained down on them. They all suffocated under tonnes of rubble but no-one in the village knew until dawn when they found the horrible sight.

You people really should watch the BBC video by Fergal Keane who was one of the first on the scene. Lifeless children dragged from the rubble by red cross, journalists having to help because the Israeli's had turned the town into rubble.

Then fast forward to Bint Jbail - a town for 30,000 people bombed to rubble with goodness knows how many dead. Don't the US get the proper news services or do you all watch the Murdoch tripe.

828 mainly civilians now dead, 3200 injured and all this in 21 days - this is as high as in Iraq after 40 months of violence.

There is no need for this vile Jew bashing for heavens sake - or the muslims or anyone else. They are all people not blood sucking monsters.

As for the rocket being fired from that house - it was conceded by the Israeli military that it was 300 metres away yet the smart bomb weighed 450 Kg and was supposed to be accurate to a few metres.

Therefore that massacre of civilians was deliberate as they often are in the Gaza.

More:

ttp://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/28/wo...=1&oref=slogin

""Hezbollah came to Ain Ebel to shoot its rockets," said Fayad Hanna Amar, a young Christian man, referring to his village. "They are shooting from between our houses."

"Please,'' he added, "write that in your newspaper.""

proper link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/28/world/middleeast/28refugees.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

"American I just want to know if you enjoy taking it up the hershey highway from your fellow psychos?" -Petunia

Thats what you have to say?
Glad you have nothing of substance to say, but rather share your homoerotic fantasies as an inteligent response.

Let's leave it to those who have a brain cell or two to judge for themselves as I personally don't care much about some worthless, herpoid zionist animal like you who post their homoerotic fantasies as a response to a debate. Worthless transvestite- 'he/she' zionist.

[How did you know Petunia that I was rump roaster?

Posted by: American | August 1, 2006 01:28 PM]

Now you are so stupid you're using my name to post your stupidity. What a worthless white trash brainwahed goy/ zionist. Poor thing you, you have nothing to say but homoerotic filth which fills your mind. The readers know who the "american" is based on the quality of my posts.

The only reasonable conclusion is that Bush is being blackmailed by the lobby.

take a look at :

jewwatch.com

you will find a list of STD-walking zionist pornstars there. I am sure you would love to get in touch with them. They might just justify your needs.

Wiccan,

Although I find American's views and Rhetoric repulsive, I can answer your question. First, stop all US funding and support of Israel until they take these measures: Remove the settlements, tear down the wall on any place that it strays over the green line, end the occupation, allow a stable palestinian state to emerge and withdraw from lebanon completely.

This will end the conflicts and starve Hamas and Hezbollah out of existance. Not immediately, but it will happen. Until this happens, you can be assured of Israel's ongoing terrorist onslaught.

The view that the conflict is driven by the settlemment movement is shared by Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Colin Powell, and a very large number of other analysts and ex politicians . Working US politicians are completely cowed by AIPAC and prevented by their cowardice from ever speaking about the subject.

Although, one excellent exception to this rule is Jonathan Tasini, who is running against Hillary Clinton in the NY senate
Race. If I seem less than credible to you, perhaps Mr. Tasini's background and views will seem more convincing to you:

"When I announced that I was entering the race for the U.S. Senate, I began with a quote from Martin Luther King, Jr.: "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." I am not a professional politician whose sole goal is to accumulate power so I have the freedom to speak my mind and I will not be silent.

I've touched the "third rail" of politics in New York: the Israel-Palestine conflict, the dreadful occupation and the never-ending violence that is spinning out of control, in large part because the United States--and politicians like Hillary Clinton--continue to blindly pursue a one-sided policy in the Palestinian-Israel conflict, a policy that is causing more death and sorrow for civilians on all sides of the conflict.

From the beginning of this race, I was committed to speaking the truth, whether about the Iraq war/occupation or abusive corporate power or the corruption coursing through our political system. People are simply fed up with the pandering, the triangulation and the inability to speak the truth that is endangering our country's future, our relations in the world and our well-being at home. We need a real opposition party, a Democratic Party with a vision that has the spine to stand for something authentic and honest.

It's worth voters in New York knowing a little about where I come from on the issue of Israel-Palestine and the raging conflict engulfing the region today. I speak about Israel out of love and pain, in the same way that I am a deeply patriotic American who is harshly critical of our government and its behavior in Iraq--and of Hillary Clinton's vote to send our men and women to die into an illegal, immoral war.

My father was born in then-Palestine. He fought in the Haganah (the Israeli underground) in the war of independence; my father's cousin, whose name I carry as a middle name, was killed in that war. I lived in Israel for seven years, during which I went through the 1973 war: a cousin of mine was killed in that war, leaving a young widow and two children, and his brother was wounded. My step-grandfather, an old man who was no threat to anyone, was killed by a Palestinian who took an axe to his head while he was sitting quietly on a park bench. Half my family still lives in Israel. I have seen enough bloodshed, tears, and parents burying their children to last many lifetimes.

For that reason, I believe passionately in a two-state solution, which includes a strong, independent, economically viable Palestinian state existing along side a strong, independent, economically vibrant Israel. It is the only solution that will bring peace to the civilians who now live in fear of death raining down from above--either because of the missiles of Hezbollah or the bombs of Israeli aircraft.

So, here is what I said--and did not say--that has touched off this discussion and the press coverage (I certainly hope there is such interest when I release my economic program). I did not say that Israel is a terrorist state. I did say--and have said for a long time--that Israel has committed acts that violate international standards and the Geneva conventions. In Israel, my statement that the military has committed acts that violate the Geneva convention and international standards and has also engaged in torture (or, as it is called, "moderate pressure") would be a subject of debate but hardly considered novel or particularly radical. Among the many sources for the truth, beyond my personal experience, is the Israeli human rights organization, B'Tselem. If you visit the organization's website, you will find condemnation of both Israeli and Palestinian violence against civilians of each side.

Here is what B'Tselem says about the current escalation:

"...the organization reiterates that international humanitarian law (IHL) obligates all parties taking part in hostilities to refrain from launching attacks against civilians or against civilian objects.
IHL requires that the combating sides direct their attacks only against specific military objectives, take cautionary measures to prevent injury to civilians, and refrain from disproportionate attacks, i.e. attacks directed against legitimate targets, but that are likely to cause excessive harm to civilian. Furthermore, IHL clearly forbids the intimidation and terrorising of civilians, as well as collective punishment.

Over the past week, Israel has killed hundreds of Lebanese civilians in its attacks against targets in Lebanon. There is a concern that at least some of them were disproportionate attacks, which constitute war crimes. In addition, Israel has launched deliberate attacks against civilian infrastructure throughout Lebanon, such as bridges, the Beirut international airport , the electricity supply and fuel reservoirs. There is a concern that such attacks are intended to put pressure on the Lebanese Government and not to obtain a specific military advantage. If this is the case, these attacks constitute collective punishment and a grave violation of IHL. Moreover, even if these targets constitute legitimate military objects, or civilian objectives that may be used for military purposes, Israel must respect the principle of proportionality and refrain from attacks that would cause excessive harm to civilians."

The problem is not the debate in Israel. The problem is the debate--or lack thereof--in the United States.

Senator Clinton's spokesperson has called my comments "beyond the pale." With all due respect, it is Senator Clinton's behavior, lack of leadership and failure to call for a respect for international law that should be questioned by the press, the Jewish community and the voters of New York. At a time when the violence against people on both sides of the border has killed hundreds of innocent people (mostly Lebanese), Hillary Clinton has fanned the flames of the conflict by recognizing and condemning the violence only against Israelis and effectively encouraging military action. I, too, have stated clearly, from the outset, that Hezbollah's actions violate international law. But, to ignore Israel's actions is abhorrent, weak and cowardly.

I don't believe Senator Clinton is a true friend of Israel. A friend of Israel, not someone who simply seeks votes, would understand that employing collective punishment against people in Lebanon only embitters a population, possibly for generations, and that even a short-term military victory will be empty if it leaves behind a shattered country. As an article in The New York Times illustrated: "We're not Hezbollah supporters, but we cannot excuse what the Israelis are doing," said Rima Beydoun, a secular Shiite who owns an advertising agency. "We knew there would be repercussions, but no one expected they would be like this," Mr. Salhab, the filmmaker, said of Shiite support for Hezbollah. "I am very critical of that part of my country, but I have to put it aside, because we are being destroyed. At this point, I can't just say: Hezbollah, go to hell."

A friend of Israel, not someone who simply seeks votes, would never have stood before the "security wall" in the West Bank, as Senator Clinton did, and praised it--even though it has been found to be illegal under international law and by the Israeli Supreme Court (which said that, if a wall needed to be built, it should not stray outside the "green line" into the occupied territories). A friend of Israel would argue strenuously that Israel's moral fiber and its security is weakened every moment that that wall stands in its place, in violation of the law of Israel, severing families from their land, separating people and filling more people with rage and despair.

A friend of Israel, not someone who simply seeks votes, would deplore the collective punishment employed by the Israeli army in Gaza. As Rabbi Michael Lerner has suggested, in the wake of the democratic elections that brought Hamas to power in Gaza, "Instead of narrowly focusing on Hamas' capacity to make war, the Israelis chose the path of collective punishment, a frequently ineffective counterinsurgency policy used to eliminate public support for resistance movements. In the height of the oppressive summer heat, Israel bombed the electricity grid, effectively cutting off Gaza's water and the electricity needed to keep refrigeration working, thereby guaranteeing a dramatic decrease in food for the area's already destitute, million plus population. This act was yet another violation of international law that include[d] the arrests of thousands by Israelis and the shooting of Qassams at population centers by Hamas."

I have challenged Senator Clinton to come out into the public arena, stop hiding behind her spokespeople and spinners and image consultants. Let's debate the future of Israel and Palestine, publicly, on television, in front of the voters. Right now, in the coming days because the violence in the Middle East is rising. Pick the time and place.

I would end with this thought: As a Jew, I have always been proud of the Jewish concept of "Tikkun Olam" or "repairing the world." I like to think that that is what brought so many Jews into the civil rights and labor movements in the 1960s and 1970s, and into the current anti-war movement--and, personally, guided me into the world of social justice work. I feel great sorrow that Israel is an occupier of another people and I believe that Israel can never be whole and can never be at peace until that occupation is ended in a just way. And I also believe that the concept of Tikkun Olam means that we must never be silent."

I hope this helps answer your question.

P.S. American is a loon. you would do better to argue with the wind about blowing so much.

J

P.S.S.

Stop the bombing, end the occupation, raze the settlements, tear down the wall and watch peace break out in the ME.

Sorry American but Wiccan is correct. The land that I live on belonged to the Hurons and the land that you live on belonged to the Mohicans, the Sioux, etc. depending on where you live.

The Americans and Canadians have as much right to live in North America as the Israelis have to live in Israel.

Actually, the Jews and Arabs share the same genetic material as Semites so they both have the "right" to be in the Middle East where they both originated.

Hey! I have a great idea! The UN should create a country, call it Palestine and disarm the terrorists. Then there will be peace and less of the childish namecalling that you seem to enjoy so much!

The only reasonable conclusion is that Bush is being blackmailed by the lobby."

No kidding! But there is more to it!

Take alook at this excellent article and see how the judeocons/ neocons hijacked the white house and the M.E. Policey.

"The weird men behind George Bush's War"- By Michael Lind

"The Israel lobby itself is divided into Jewish and Christian wings. Wolfowitz and Feith have close ties to the Jewish-American Israel lobby. Wolfowitz, who has relatives in Israel, has served as the Bush administration's liaison to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. Feith was given an award by the Zionist Organisation of America, citing him as a "pro-Israel activist". While out of power in the Clinton years, Feith collaborating with Perle, co-authored for Likud a policy paper that advised the Israeli government to end the Oslo peace process, reoccupy the territories and crush Yasser Arafat's government."
"How did the neo-con defence intellectuals -a small group at odds with most of the US foreign policy elite, Republican as well as Democratic - manage to capture the Bush administration? ....

The neo-cons took advantage of Bush's ignorance and inexperience. Unlike his father, a Second World War veteran who had been ambassador to China, director of the CIA and vice-president, George W was a thinly educated playboy who had failed repeatedly in business before becoming the governor of Texas, a largely ceremonial position (the state's lieutenant governor has more power). His father is essentially a north-eastern, moderate Republican; George W, raised in west Texas, absorbed the Texan cultural combination of machismo, anti- intellectualism and overt religiosity. The son of upper-class Episcopalian parents, he converted to southern fundamentalism in a midlife crisis. Fervent Christian Zionism, along with an admiration for macho Israeli soldiers that sometimes coexists with hostility to liberal Jewish-American intellectuals, is a feature of the southern culture....."

See full article at:

http://www.rense.com/general37/theweirdmenbehind.htm

Israel is a lost cause. Certainly they will continue fighting in Lebanon and most likely win quite a few battles (I mean killing lots of people). But the Arab World has lost all patience and by hook or crook over the next 10 or 20 years will get rid of Israel. They simply have reached the point of no return. I can't blame them. Jews, as part of an integrated society, certainly belong in the Middle East but not a Zionist Colonial society such as Israel.

yes, canadian- but that was never the point. They can live there if they want but not at the expense of the freedom and well being of the people who rightfully own the land. Just as simple as that.

As far as their genetic material...I really dont care about that. But I am no0t impressed by it- to put it very mildly.